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Explore seaweed farming in New England with Jaclyn Robidoux from Maine Sea Grant. Learn about seaweed’s versatile applications, from food to cosmetics, and its impact on coastal economies and sustainable seafood production.
In This Episode:
Guest Speaker: Jaclyn Robidoux – Marine Extension Associate & Seaweed Specialist, Maine Sea Grant
Host: Mike Coogan, Ph.D. Research Assistant Professor, Center for Sustainable Seafood Systems, University of New Hampshire
Co-host: Gabriela Bradt, Ph.D. Fisheries and Aquaculture Extension State Specialist, New Hampshire Sea Grant/UNH Cooperative Extension, University of New Hampshire
Show Notes
Key Takeaways:
- Learn the basics of seaweed types and their ecosystem roles
- Discover seaweed cultivation and harvest methods
- Explore seaweed’s nutritional value and uses
- Understand seaweed’s role in climate solutions
- See market opportunities in U.S. seaweed farming
Resources Mentioned:
- Maine Sea Grant
- Maine Seaweed Council
- Seaweed Week
- Seaweed species guide
- Seaweed Aquaculture Industry Overview
- Resources for Seaweed Growers
- National Sea Grant Seaweed Hub
Connect With Us:
- Jaclyn Robidoux (Maine Sea Grant)
- Mike Coogan (Host)
- Gabby Bradt (Co-host)
Subscribe to Get Aquacultured!
- Apple Podcasts
- Spotify
- Amazon
Quotes:
- Jaclyn Robidoux: “I just was really into the idea that you could go out into the field and forage seaweeds that you could, like, find them and eat them.”
- Jaclyn Robidoux: “Extension work is basically taking the research and the resources through the university and extending them out into the broader community.”
Behind the Story:
Follow Jaclyn Robidoux path from marine biology student to Maine Sea Grant seaweed expert. Learn about farming this versatile crop and its food system potential.
Take Action:
Try cooking with seaweed! Visit Seaweed Week website for recipes.
Share This Episode:
Just learned all about seaweed farming! Check out the latest episode of Get Aquacultured! to dive into this sustainable industry. #seaweed #aquaculture #sustainability
Creators and Guests
Host
Michael Coogan, Ph.D., Aquaculture
My research focuses on using modern technologies to overcome challenges to aquaculture expansion in the United States. Current projects include improving sustainability through extractive species co-culture (IMTA), streamlining environmental monitoring and permitting, reducing threats to whales, and creating more efficient production through genetics and culture methods. I am passionate about producing food locally and protecting the natural environment through community engagement and robust science.
What is Get Aquacultured!?
Get Aquacultured! is a new limited-series podcast from University of New Hampshire The Center for Sustainable Seafood Systems that dives into the many sides of aquaculture—straight from the people who know it best. Hosts Gabriela Bradt, Michael Coogan, Michael Chambers, and Michael Doherty share a lively conversation with industry experts, practitioners, students, and educators working in aquaculture. Together, they’ll bust myths, spotlight different perspectives, and bring the fascinating world of aquaculture to life. From science and innovation to classrooms and coastal communities, Get Aquacultured! explores stories you won’t often hear in the mainstream media—but that matter for our oceans, our food systems, and our future. Fun, informative, and accessible, these conversations are designed to connect you with the people and ideas shaping aquaculture today
Mike Coogan
Hey there and welcome to Get Aquacultured!, the podcast where we dive into the deep end of the world's fastest growing food industry. On this podcast, we invite industry professionals, researchers, and educators to bring you inside the systems that make up modern aquaculture. So, whether you're a curious eater, a coastal neighbor, or someone who likes to nerd out about ocean science, we're glad you're here. Did you know that seaweed can grow up to a foot a day? It's one of the fastest growing algae on the planet, and it just might be one of the most surprising, too. On today's episode of Get Aquacultured!, our guest, Jaclyn Robidoux, a marine extension associate at Maine Sea Grant, takes us through how farmers are growing seaweed right here in New England waters, why it's showing up in everything from your sushi roll to your skincare, and how this humble marine algae is making big waves in local economies and global seafood systems alike. Jacqueline knows a thing or two about this slippery, sustainable powerhouse.
I'm your host, Mike Coogan, and today I'm joined by my co-host, Gabby Bradt. From seaweed farming techniques to its promise as a climate friendly superfood, we're peeling back the layers of an industry that's growing faster than, well, kelp in the spring. So stick around. It's time to Get Aquacultured!.
Gabby Bradt
Jaclyn Robidoux from Maine Sea Grant. And we are going to be talking about seaweed.
Let's get seaweed nuts. Seaweed. Seaweed excited, I guess.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Kelp crazy.
Gabby Bradt
Kelp. Kelp crazy.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Let's get kelp crazy. What is it?
Gabby Bradt
Kelp me. Yep, we're gonna get into the seaweeds.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Ha ha.
Gabby Bradt
With Jax over here. Tell us a little bit of how you did get into the whole seaweeds. I mean, I've known you for a long time, and yes, I am dating myself here because she was a wee little graduate student and so. But I don't know if I've actually ever asked you how you, like, ended up in this.
Jaclyn Robidoux
So I have been doing, I guess, like, seaweed extension for eight years now. But before that, I was a grad student and an undergrad here at unh, and Gabby was such a huge help in understanding what seaweed Sea grant does and what seaweed programming would really look like. I took a phycology class at unh, which is the study of seaweeds, as a marine biology major in an undergrad program, and I was totally hooked. I just was really into the idea that you could go out into the field and Forage seaweeds that you could, like, find them and eat them. So, I was then taking seaweeds home to my dorm at UNH and cooking them for my roommates who thought I was weird to begin with but getting weirder as I'm like sticking seaweed chips in the oven. But that was really the intro of it. And then after that, I did some research here, working with the type of seaweed that is used in sushi rolls.
So that's Nori. It's the flat one that you would put with the rice. And then this position in Maine popped up. So it's been a full decade plus of getting into the weeds.
Gabby Bradt
So, before that phycology class, what were you thinking you were gonna be doing?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Oh, my gosh. I think like a lot of 18 year to get into marine biology. I thought I was gonna do like, sharks or cuttlefish or some like, very enthusiastic marine mammal. I remember taking a class with Eric Chapman and him talking about the penguins and studying. And by studying penguins, actually what he was looking at was like, what they were eating, which was like, their digestive contents. And I was like, okay, so basically when you're studying these animals, like, you're actually just studying their poop. Nobody told me that as an 18 year old.
Gabby Bradt
So I still can't remember where we met.
Jaclyn Robidoux
I can remember I was stalking you because I was like, sea Grant is so cool. What do they do? They obviously fund my grad school research at the time. But Gabby, this Gabby woman seems to be up to all these cool events. You were running Seaweed Mania at that point. And so I asked if I could come and help you with a ID workshop in Rye. And then you invited me to a bunch of other seaweed mania events.
Gabby Bradt
Yeah, and we can talk about that in a little bit. But then, so you mention extension work. What is that?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Oh, a good question because it doesn't fit neatly into an elevator pitch. Right. But extension work is basically taking the research and the resources through the university and extending them out into the broader community for what that looks like. For me, it often means working with scientists, students, seaweed farmers, seaweed wild harvesters, businesses. It ranges from research to application, outreach, and education. We kind of do all of the above.
Mike Coogan
What does farming seaweed actually look like?
Jaclyn Robidoux
What does farming seaweed actually look like?
Mike Coogan
I have a question before that.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Yeah.
Mike Coogan
What is seaweed? How is that different than, like, algae or kelp in particular?
Gabby Bradt
Is it really a plant?
Mike Coogan
Oh, is it a plant?
Jaclyn Robidoux
You're hitting all the big questions here. Okay, so I'll start with the what is seaweed? So seaweed is a type of algae. There's a lot of misnaming and just kind of confusion in the seaweed space. So seaweed is a type of algae. There are two basic groups of algae which are microalgae. Those can grow in fresh water and they're single celled, microscopic.
You need to see them with a microscope. There is macroalgae. Those are what you can see with the naked eye. They're larger. Those are pretty exclusive to the marine environment. So you're only going to find them in the ocean. And that is why they are often called seaweeds.
So those are synonymous. Sometimes people also use kelp and seaweed interchangeably.
That isn't technically correct. Kelp is a type of seaweed, but not all seaweeds are kelp. So you've already heard me refer to nori. We have many other kinds of seaweeds. Kelps are a group of seaweeds, like pine is a group of trees. But not all trees are pine trees.
Gabby Bradt
How can you tell the difference between different species of seaweeds?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Yeah, really big picture. The different groups of seaweeds are broken down into three categories. And this is based on their functional pigments, which is useful because you can do it visually a little bit. Red algae, brown algae and green algae. As kind of a breakdown of what those would look like. The red algae are often, you know, they're some of our older species, they're pretty complicated. You would be eating a red algae if you're eating sushi.
They're often not as large as some of the other species. The green algae are very obviously green. So if you're ever walking on the beach and you see this like bright green thing floating in the ocean, that's going to be a green algae. But because chlorophyll is the pigment that you're seeing most visibly in those and then, and those will sometimes be in estuarine environments. So if you're seeing a little bit of fresh water, you might see more green algae. And then kelp or kelp is a type of brown algae, which is a good example because many brown algae are structurally more complex than other species. So you can think about, you know, kelp forests being quite large and they have different structures.
They're not just like a floating blob, for lack of a better term, like some species look like. So brown algae are going to be functionally a little bit more advanced in some cases. And they're pretty well known for Forming habitats.
Gabby Bradt
Why do people call them plants? Is it just because they're lazy and they're like. It's just easier to explain them as plants or functionally in the environment, what do they do?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Yeah, so that's a big reason. Their function in the environment, I think is a big reason why people confuse them for plants. Right. Because seaweeds are photosynthesizers and most photosynthetic organisms that people see in their everyday lives are plants. So when you think about a seaweed, you know, it's doing those same roles. It's uptaking carbon dioxide and nutrients, producing oxygen. It's just doing that in the ocean.
So I think that's where the plant thing comes in. And oftentimes when I'm talking about seaweeds not being plants, the obvious next question is like, what then?
What are they? So seaweeds are protists, which means that they're photosynthetic organisms that are eukaryotic. So they have a nucleus in their cells. But it's kind of a catch all term. It's not something that most people are familiar with. It sounds like a little thing that swims around a plate. It doesn't sound like something that you see in your everyday life.
Like, oh, I saw the protists today. I think that's where some people don't know what a better term is for them. If you didn't want to say protists because it sounds weird or sciency or you don't quite get what that means, algae would be an accurate term for them. You know, some of the ways in which seaweeds are not plants is they don't have typical plant structures. So when you think of a plant, you have roots, shoots, stems, seeds, transport systems. Seaweeds have none of that. So there's no transport systems, there's no roots.
Even if you see a seaweed that looks like it has a root like structure that's actually just there to hold the seaweed onto a rock or a piling.
Gabby Bradt
And what's it called?
Jaclyn Robidoux
It's called a holdfast. So yeah, you know, I think some seaweeds definitely look more plant like than others. But they do a lot of things that are definitively not plant. Like in some cases they can grow unattached, they can grow by fragmentation. So, you know, you've probably heard of if you cut a starfish in half, like both halves will live. That old fishing seaweeds actually do. Some species actually do that as well, which is how you end up with these massive blooms of Seaweeds that are getting, you know, really separated in the waves, and then next thing you know, the whole beach is covered with red algae.
Some seaweeds have spores that swim on their own. Kelp would be one of them. So if you were to look under a microscope at little baby kelp spores, they're swimming around.
They have a flagella. So you could potentially be in the ocean swimming next to a bunch of swimming baby kelps. You won't see them, but they might land on you.
Gabby Bradt
Is it easy to farm seaweed? And why would we?
Jaclyn Robidoux
In the United States, we are really new to seaweed farming. That's not the case for the rest of the world, where there are beds that have been cultivated and farmed for thousands of years, like, records dating back a very, very, very long time. Here in the US We've had a wild harvest industry. So folks that go out and collect seaweed, it's a fishery, but we haven't been seaweed farming for all that long. Pro only about 10 to 15 years commercially. In Maine and in the Northeast, we primarily farm sugar kelp. So that's going to be that one that you'll find on the beach.
It's long, it's ruffly. You might, like, wrap it around yourself like a scarf. Part of the season with farming is that it happens really fast. It's a really short farming season. So kelp is planted in October, and it grows all through the winter, and it's harvested right around this time of year in April, May, and June. So you can imagine something going from like, absolutely microscopic to 10ft long in that matter of months is pretty impressive. But that also comes with a lot of challenges, too.
You know, I think a lot of people hear about kelp farming and they're interested in it, and they don't imagine ending up with tens of thousands of pounds of, like, wet, soggy kelp that they then need to take out of the water. Like, first of all, lifting things out of the water on a boat or anything is. Is tricky, especially when we're talking about tens of thousands of pounds on a submerged line. You know, there's a lot of. There's just a lot of, like, skill and potential, like, risks involved in that if you don't really know what you're doing. So, you know, I think people tend to romanticize the idea of kelp farming, but it's actually quite difficult. That's not to say that folks don't do it.
You know, we have about 40 kelp farms in Maine. Many of those People have marine backgrounds, so they might be lobster fishermen or they run mooring companies, mussel companies. So they're really used to that kind of work on the water. But it is a lot of work to farm kelp. And it happens so fast that you really have to be ready, especially this time of year, to take all of that kelp, like thousands and thousands of pounds in some cases, and get it out of the water and have a plan for where it's going to go.
Mike Coogan
And how are you actually farming it? Like, what are you putting it on? You know, the kelp has the hold fast, but I assume, you know, you don't have seeds.
It's not a plant. So you can't just throw seeds out into the ocean.
Gabby Bradt
Yeah, you have spores with flagella.
Jaclyn Robidoux
So, the farming process starts with those seeds. So those spores and the way that we get spores from, we use wild kelp to produce those spores. The way we get it from wild kelp onto a farm involves two steps. So there's a nursery, like you would imagine, a seed nursery. And in the nursery they take those little, tiny swimming kelp spores and they let them attach onto PVC pipes that have been wrapped with tw. So you can kind of imagine it's like a spool. They let those grow in tanks.
So, you know, they might look like aquarium tanks or they might look like big box tanks. It's just like an on land facility. So a bunch of tanks running water for about a month. After a month, there's a little brown fuzz that appears on that twine. And the twine's really thin. So what they'll do from there is they deliver those kelp spools to ocean farm sites. If you were on a boat on the water and you were looking out at a kelp farm, it would just look like a lot of colored buoys.
You're not to see anything. So people always ask like, where can I see a kelp farm? It's like you might actually be looking at one but not realizing it because all of the kelp is submerged. Kelp is a subtitle species, so you're never going to see it exposed at even, you know, the lowest tides. You have a mooring system that keeps the farm where you want it to be, which is obviously very important with aquaculture. And then those buoys provide flotation and the goal. You have one line, it's kind of like an H shape, basically.
And the center piece of the is what you would spool the kelp onto. So you take those Kelp spools. And there's that middle line, which would be just like a regular, we call it line, but you can also call it rope, that runs across the farm, and you unspool, you kind of like, let the kelp spool uncoil onto the long line. As we're talking, I'm doing this, like, circular hand motion, because that's the only way I know to describe it. The thickness of the rope.
Gabby Bradt
Right. It's just to give people an image. It's kind of like the same fishing rope that people are using to haul traps or more buoys and stuff, Right?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Exactly. And that's because that thin twine that they use in the nurseries just wouldn't hold up in the ocean. So the idea is you would unspool this coil of twine onto the thicker rope, and at that point, the holdfast would kind of start to grab on. So you really want it to lay nicely around that long line. So what the kelp grows on, we call those long lines or grow lines. And those are going to be horizontal. Most farms, they'll be between.
You know, for smaller farms, maybe 400ft. For larger farms, maybe 1,000ft. Some farms have a grid structure, so if you had a drone, you would see just a bunch of horizontal lines stacked next to each other under tension, obviously, so that the lines aren't crossing. That's a big problem, as you can imagine, especially as the kelp starts to grow. You don't really want to go to your farm and find it, like, all braided and tangled.
Mike Coogan
Why does it have to be done in the winter?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Ooh, just because we love torturing ourselves. We love freezing on the water. Part of the reason why it's done in the winter is it has to do with both the kelp growth cycle. So spring is a major growth period for kelp. We see, you know, the first few months that it's outplanted, it'll grow a little bit, and then as water temperatures warm, it starts to really take off.
Gabby Bradt
And when we plant them, right, they're like the blades, or, you know, the blades are, what, like a couple of millimeters?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Tiny. Tiny. They're so small and so, like, smaller than a grain of rice.
Gabby Bradt
Right. And so then between October and May, how much crazy?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Like, absolutely wild. Like 10ft in some cases. I mean, you know, it really varies depending upon where you're planting it and how, you know, where your seed is sourced from and all of that. But, you know, we'll see kelp go on average. Yeah, like 6ft to 10 or more feet. Sometimes you show up to farms and it's like 14ft of kelp on these lines. It's absolutely crazy.
Gabby Bradt
But you want to harvest, right? Like April, May, because as water temperatures come up, what else happens? Like it's habitat, right?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Right.
Gabby Bradt
So it's more structure in the water.
Jaclyn Robidoux
All the little critters that love kelp and love to live on kelp and like to interact with the kelp, they start to really take off. And we see that pretty much the second that the water temperatures hit 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Kelp doesn't really like hot water temperatures or, you know, some of the marine heat waves that we'll see in the summer. So it's in its weakest form, and that means that other things really love to grow on it. So some of the things that we'll see would be kelp snails. It's a. It's a small snail about the size of your.
Maybe, like, pinky nail. And the snails themselves, you could wash off or kind of shake off the kelp, but they lay eggs all over the kelp, and they are probably about the size of an eraser head. They're these little white coils, which most of our kelp in Maine and the US Is farmed for food. And people don't really want surprise snail eggs in their food.
Gabby Bradt
It's extra protein.
Jaclyn Robidoux
It's extra protein. But, you know, a few kelp eggs is to be expected. You know, like anything that comes out of the ocean. It's a dynamic environment, but they take off really quickly. So it is a challenge for people to make sure that they're removing the kelp before those kelp eggs show up and before there's just some, like. They're called bryozoans. They kind of look like, like batter or crust.
And they'll grow on the kelp, too. And we'll make it go from something that you can sell as food to no longer able to sell as food, which does impact how much farmers get paid for it.
Mike Coogan
And in the wild, are they an annual plant or are they an annual seaweed?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Then?
Mike Coogan
I know. How could I.
Jaclyn Robidoux
We just talked about this.
Mike Coogan
We just.
Jaclyn Robidoux
They're an outland. It's okay. We all make the mistakes sometimes. Like, or referring to the body of a seaweed. The technical name is a thallus, but people call it a plant. I say that sometimes. I'm like.
And the plant. And I'm like, ah, man, the leaf, the leaf, the blade.
Mike Coogan
You know, do these algae, do they live for Multiple years in the wild.
Jaclyn Robidoux
It depends because, you know, you have kelp forests, right.
Mike Coogan
So does it die every year? And then the fish are like, oh, I gotta go somewhere else, find a new habitat and come back next year?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Yeah, it depends on what species. Sugar kelp, we'll see.
It's an annual or a biannual. So it's, you know, the beds are not going to necessarily just like straight up disappear, but you'll have younger kelps and older kelps in the same bed kind of regenerating. So that's how you have a consistent presence of kelp in like a kelp bed. Other seaweeds, Nori. That one in sushi. That's a good example. There are species that do just disappear, for lack of a better term.
They go somewhere, we can talk about that, but, you know, you won't find them for a good chunk of the year. And so we have seaweeds that are perennials. You can think of rockweed, ascophyllum, which is all over the coast. It's the one with the air bladders that can live for, I don't know, 10 to 30 years, some cases, if it doesn't get ripped up by ice and storms in the meantime, which many do. And so, you know. But we also have seaweeds that live only a few months and then go kind of dormant for the rest of the year.
Mike Coogan
And so are these farms providing that same habitat that a, you know, kelp forest would in the wild and.
Jaclyn Robidoux
To some degree, yes. I mean. Right. So you're laying out these long lines and that is the substrate of, of what the kelp would attach to. So it, in a sense, it is creating a floating kelp forest.
Gabby Bradt
Yeah, you mentioned that in Maine, the Gulf of Maine, primarily the state of Maine. Right. We're growing sugar kelp. Why. Why are we only growing sugar kelp if there's so many. Well, a. How many.
How many types of species of seeds are there in the wild?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Question.
Gabby Bradt
But then after that, why only sugar kelp?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Okay. How many species there are Globally, there are about 29,000 taxa, which is a. To. We here in the Gulf of Maine have about 200 of those. So. And if you extend down to, you know, the northwest Atlantic as a whole, maybe like 550. So, you know, that's.
That's a very small chunk of the pie. That being said, there's some of our found kelp is one of our foundational species. So it is, it makes a good candidate for aquaculture because it grows fast and it Grows quite large. You know, you're not talking about growing something that's maximum size.
Size is 3 inches. It's like a big thing that you can actually set out on a farm. Part of the reason why we only farm, primarily only farm kelp right now is because it has a relatively simple life cycle. So remember when I said seaweeds are not plants? Some seaweeds have very, very complicated life cycles where they might have two different phases or three different phases. Kelp does have two different phases, but that swimming activity that it does, that little modile spore, makes it actually much more straightforward for us to, to create the seeds in the first place. So it's one of those things like if you can't order the seeds, you can't have the garden.
And that's the case for most of those other 200 species that we have here in Maine. And also the season is short, so it doesn't take a long time to grow. You know, I mentioned rockweed that grows a couple inches a year and is like maybe going to be 20 years old. That would be a tough species for aquaculture because it takes too long.
Gabby Bradt
Is there a big demand for sugar kelp in the US or globally?
Jaclyn Robidoux
The million dollar question. Globally, there is certainly a demand for Maine sugar kelp. You know, I would say that the wild harvesters, the limited wild harvest that we do have in Maine, it is a product that is in high demand. Where it grows in the wild, you'll often see it be like broader, thicker. It just produces a different product. Farm kelp is going to be a little bit more like a baby spinach where it' you know, it's gonna be a little thinner and a little bit more delicate. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.
It lends itself really well to certain products, but it's not a one to one replacement. Right. So when people say, yeah, but Maine, you know, Maine's been selling sugar kelp for 50 years. That's true. But what comes off the farms is a different kind of product. You know, it's like wild strawberries and farm strawberries, they're not the same and you couldn't label one as the other and call them the same thing. So the demand side is a huge piece that, that fluctuates and that people don't eat a lot of kelp in the United States.
It's not a part of western diets. And that's one of, if not the biggest challenge to farming kelp is having a place to sell it and having a market because if people don't wanna eat it, you're not gonna make any money farming it.
Gabby Bradt
I will say sugar kelp is very, very cool in terms of what it looks like, how quickly it grows and so on. And it do really make some good ch.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Really? It really does, yeah.
And I think one of the other things, I was just talking about this yesterday with someone, like, why don't people want to eat seaweed? Like, what is the hang up on it? And I think people get the impression that seaweeds are going to make food taste fishy. Because probably the way that they've interacted with seaweed from a food perspective is in sushi, which is a very. Like, nori is a very distinct kind of seaweed. It has a very strong flavor. You know, you're not gonna hide it.
So if you like that flavor, you're like, yes. But if you don't like that flavor, it can be kind of a turn off.
Gabby Bradt
And so that kind of leads me to, why eat it anyway? Like, why is it so. I drank the seaweed Kool Aid a long time ago, and yes, I do think it's a superfood, but can we talk a little bit about that?
What about it? And sugar kelp in particular? Is it like a big power punch?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Yeah. I mean, a lot of seaweeds, you'll hear them called superfoods. I think this kind of goes back to when we were talking about how they grow so effectively and they're absorbing and constantly pulling nutrients and minerals from the marine environment in the ocean. What they have access to is a lot different than a land plant. Right. So you can imagine, like water carries all of these really beneficial things that sometimes land plants just don't have access to or can't uptake. So that makes seaweeds very, very nutrient dense as a whole.
Kelp in particular is known for having high iodine. So if you're ever eating a product with kelp in it and you take a look at that nutritional label, you'll see it's a very large number for daily percentage of iodine. Some of the other species, so that nori that we talked about, that one's really high in protein. So there's standout things for all of the seaweeds. But generally what you'll see is, you know, a high concentration of marine micronutrients. So things like zinc or other beneficial things that people really need in low doses, but are actually quite hard to find if you're not not seeking supplements.
Mike Coogan
You can grow kelp in a variety of different environments. You think about oysters, and oysters taste super different depending on where they're grown. Do you find the same thing with kelp?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Not in the same way. Certainly the quality can be different. I think that's where we see the biggest impacts. Like, kelp really loves cold water. And some kelps really love high energy, like very high current or high wave environment. But they're not filter feeders in the sense of like a shellfish is. So, you know, an oyster is filter feeding.
It's actually part of the reason why oysters taste the way they do is some of the microalgae that they're consuming that is very different site to site or, you know, bay to bay. Seaweeds. The biggest impact from site to site would be just like how it's. How it's growing.
So the taste probably would. It won't change.
Gabby Bradt
But that characteristic. Right. Is also good if you're looking to use it as a culinary ingredient.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Right.
Gabby Bradt
Because they absorb everything.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Right.
Gabby Bradt
So you would use kelp as a softener or something like that. But say you put it in beans or something, it's gonna take on the flavor of whatever you put it in.
Jaclyn Robidoux
You know, for kelp in particular, it's really high in potassium salts. So, you know, I think that's. It's different kinds of salts than like a true table salt, which. Which definitely means that it has, you know, you can use it as a salt replacement. You'll still get a salty taste, but it's not sodium in that sense. And I think another, you know, I use seaweed. I use kelp in everything.
And kelp is really easy to hide. It's definitely flavorful, but it's not an intense flavor. It's very light, like a zucchini or spinach. And so you can, for lack of a better term, hide it in things or add it to things, and it's gonna provide just that next level up. You can think about making a stock, and if you leave out the celery in your stock, the stock's not gonna taste quite the same. I use kelp in all of my soup broths, and it changes the texture and the color and just deepens the flavor.
Mike Coogan
It's the umami flavor.
Jaclyn Robidoux
It is the umami, and it's not always like a big umami. You know, people want their food to still taste like their food, and kelp is a good way of doing that because you can sprinkle it in anything. Like, it goes really well with tomatoes. So like, put it in tomato Sauce or like in your stocks on your eggs. Like, you know, scrambled eggs with a little bit of kelp flakes.
Mike Coogan
What are some recipes that you use it for? And if not you, how are some ways that you can buy kelp?
Jaclyn Robidoux
People often imagine that if they're going to buy seaweeds and then start making recipes, like if they're gonna go. Go get some dried kelp, that they need to be turning out, like, Michelin star dishes, you know, like, they need to be going crazy over the top, like, doing all these wacky things. And I find the best way to start incorporating seaweeds is, like, look at the things that you're already making and figure out what you might like to try it in.
Like, you know, so I always. People will be like, what's your favorite way to eat kelp? And I love putting kelp on hot dogs. Like, I think a seaweed salad on top of hot dogs is so good.
Mike Coogan
It's like a relish.
Jaclyn Robidoux
It's like a relish or a sauerkraut. Like, if you like that on a hot dog, you probably will like a seaweed salad on a hot dog. So I'll just like, bring a jar to an event and like a cookout or a barbecue, and we'll just, like, put it on top. I did a presentation a few weeks ago, and it was about seaweed, but we had a bunch of takeout pizzas for this, like, you know, community town hall meeting. And I brought a jar of kelp, and we were. People were just like, you know, scooping the kelp onto their pizza. It goes really well.
Just like anything with acid. So you can think, like, lemon, lime. I mean, I've had an amazing kelp margarita before, but also, you know, like, tomato sauces, any kind of broth. I know I've mentioned those a lot, but I think those are things that people cook a lot of the time in their everyday, you know, lineup. Also just, you know, like, any lobster bake that you're doing, definitely get some kelp or some rockweed to add to the pot because it just like kind of gives it that. That flavor. Like, it's gonna steam the lobster so.
Gabby Bradt
You can also pickle it.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Oh, my God, it's so good.
Gabby Bradt
But super quick, I wanted to do a lightning exercise with you name all the things that. That you would find seaweed in.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Oh, my God. It's like in so many things. Toothpaste. How about that one? You can find it in, like, toothpaste, puddings, biomedical applications, sauces, burgers, chocolate milk, Ice cream, like, it's a clarifier for craft beer. So if you like that, there are many seaweed extracts that are super important to just how our food functions and works. So, you know, sometimes you're consuming a seaweed product without even knowing it, because seaweeds have some really unique properties in terms of, like, freezing and rehydrating or, you know, they're really just, like, resilient.
You can think about seaweeds being, like, bouncy in a way that is. That translates really well to food. So something like chocolate milk will have carrageenan in it, which is this compound derived from seaweed that helps the chocolate float. You can think about seaweed floating. Or if you are a fan of Ben and Jerry's ice cream, like I am, and you take a look at the label, the last ingredient on there is going to be carrageenan. And that's a very common food additive that can help thicken and prevent freezer burn. So it's kind of one of those.
It sounds very technical and very sciency, but it's actually just a seaweed derivative. Also, if any kind of biomedical application, if you've heard of agar plates, so those things that you'd spread bacteria on in order to grow them or in order to cultivate different strains, that's also derived from seaweed.
Gabby Bradt
It's an antibacterial. It's used for burns and so on.
Jaclyn Robidoux
So that's the oldest recorded uses of seaweed. Exactly. Yep.
Gabby Bradt
People make clothing out of it, and people are starting to look at it as potential plastic replacement. I feel like a lot of the potential, not just for sugar kelp, but for seaweeds in general, is not necessarily just for culinary purposes. What has been the weirdest or most fun thing that you've seen in the seaweed working rack of brain jacks?
Jaclyn Robidoux
I think the weirdest thing. I cannot say on this microphone. Say it. There was a woman who wanted to start a seaweed lube company. Oh, wow. Yep. So you have that on recording now.
Yeah, I think right now one of the coolest seaweed innovations is like, either like these kelp burgers or kelp meat replacements, which are really, really cool. And they.
They taste great.
Mike Coogan
Seaweedish meatballs.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Seaweedish meatballs. That's. That's definitely up there at season, like, you know, little kelp meatballs.
Gabby Bradt
And the kids are eating it, and.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Kids eat them and they love them and they're fabulous. I mean, and they're a good percentage seaweed. So I think a Lot of seaweed products. You might see like a sprinkle in there. And these are really putting seaweed at the center of the plate where, you know, this patty is like 30 something percent seaweed. And that's more than some burgers are.
Mike Coogan
Made out of meat.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Right. 100% like, and you can use it in so many applications. Like, it's not trying to be, you know, it's not an impossible burger. It's not trying to be like a fake meat. It's truly just trying to be a really good veggie burger. And it totally accomplishes that. But you can also like break it up and use it in falafel or use it in bolognese.
I have had a kelp chili that absolutely. That was the meat in the chili. Absolutely blew my mind. You know, as people are interested in doing more plant based diets or just like reducing the amount of.
Mike Coogan
Not a plant.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Yeah. You get what I'm saying?
Well, it does fit in like plant based and vegan and vegetarian diets. So it ain't no animal. There was a seaweed jerky at one point, but the seaweed jerky was made out of kelp and shiitake mushrooms, neither of which are plants.
Gabby Bradt
All of the sudden, in the last like 20 years or so, right, seaweed has taken off or farmed aquacultured seaweed and we're still basically only growing a few different species. But why did it take off? Like, why all of a sudden did people think this, this is other than let's feed more people and so on? What are some of the things that people are buying into that may not necessarily be true? Legit?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Yeah. Do you hear me?
I just cracked my knuckles to bust these myths. Yeah, you're getting ready. But you know, I think one of the very prominent marketing things or like news headlines around seaweeds have to do with climate and the potential for seaweeds to be a climate solution. And I think as this is like the myth that maybe perhaps needs busting the most is that while seaweed certainly play a role in the carbon cycle and are a sustainable food, they are not a silver bullet for climate change. That's not how we're going to get out of this mess that we've gotten ourselves into.
Gabby Bradt
But how would they, how are people saying seaweed is going to do that?
Jaclyn Robidoux
I think, you know, like, it's flashy headlines, right? Like you can talk about sinking seaweeds to the bottom of the ocean to store carbon down there. And that's something that is a good Example because you know these, some of these things are very like pie in the sky or very like science fiction. And it's compelling to talk about them and to kind of like dream about them. But in reality we're not sinking tons and tons of seaweed to the bottom of the ocean to save the planet. Like you might as well send a the moon. But you know, I think there's a lot of excitement and so that's a positive thing, right?
Like that level of like excitement and interest in seaweeds and the role that they play in the environment and what that means for us as we're thinking about like better food systems and climate solutions. Like people get excited about that. But there is certainly an amount of over promising that can happen when you see news headlines that, that like make it seem that seaweed is going to be this thing that is going to reverse the course of climate change like single handedly.
Gabby Bradt
So do you think having more kelp in the ocean might be a good climate solution?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Certainly kelp bed restoration is very important and whether or not that's for climate, kelp beds globally are a huge ecosystem that supports so many other species. And you know, I think with warming ocean temperatures we're seeing big declines in kelp beds around the world. So that includes here in New England, but you know, other corners of the planet where kelp lives. So for restoration it's super important because that, that is part of what has lived in those environments for a really long time and is now being threatened or moving out or being replaced by other species. Is it, does it help with the, the climate resilience of those communities and those coasts? Certainly restoration is hard. You know, it's, it's difficult especially when we're looking at areas that kelp and temperatures that kelp doesn't survive well in.
You know, how much do you start planting something back when you know that it's just a temperature threshold that it won't, it really will not do well in like you don't see too many palm trees around here. I don't want to say that it doesn't play a role at all either. Like seaweeds are and kelp and, and these like large habitat forming species in particular are known for or producing oxygen or especially locally improving water quality. So making the ocean in those areas where they grow less acidic. So as oceans are getting more acidic, having kelp in there can certainly help locally. Are kelp farms going to reverse the course of ocean acidification globally? Like no.
Could they help local populations or local areas to better adapt or to, to, to be less acidic, like. Yes. And we'll actually see that this is an interaction with shellfish because obviously any kind of shellfish, oysters or mussels as two examples that we grow in Maine, you know, they rely on ocean conditions in order to build their shells. And as the ocean gets more acidic, that process becomes more and more difficult. So by co locating kelp farms and oyster farms or mussel farms, there might be some very direct, you know, and research has been done on this direct local benefits to those farms that the kelp is providing to the shellfish. So it might not save the world, but it might help the mussels a little bit.
Mike Coogan
What about for biofuels? That is a save the world kind of situation. Right. If we're pulling from kelp that can be grown each year rather than sucking up dinosaurs.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Yeah, I mean, there's some really cool work being done on how you can synthesize like kelp into biofuels or other species too. You know, like I mentioned, there's those 29,000. So that being said, the biofuels market like is enormous. It's a really, really big space to think about. And certainly no farm in Maine or the United States would even come close to the size that you would need in order to produce that much seaweed to go into biofuels. Some of the exciting like future horizon markets would be things like biostimulants. So those are products that help plants grow better, basically, like helping plants like create more branches or create deeper, stronger roots.
Seaweeds are known to do that. So that's a big market. In the near term on the horizon, we also have alternative proteins. That's another one as well, well as pet or animal feeds. So thinking about how we're feeding animals and could we replace some of the more energy intensive things or the not so great ingredients that are going into our animal feeds, could we replace those with some seaweeds that are really beneficial for animals in the same way that eating them is really beneficial for us?
Gabby Bradt
So animal feed.
Jaclyn Robidoux
You want to talk cows? I want to talk about farts and burps. Okay, that's what I want to know. But it's important to talk about because it is flashy and it makes headlines because you had to do that, didn't you?
Gabby Bradt
But it's also within the context of myth busting and also climate change. Right.
Jaclyn Robidoux
So let's talk cow farms. Yes, let's talk about cow farms.
Gabby Bradt
And then I think we can end.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Did you, the listeners think that this is where we were going. All right. Okay, cool. So I guess in shock short, you know, the idea of feeding seaweed to cows is something that in the last few years has gotten a lot of media attention because for the exact reasons why we were just joking about it, it sounds a little ridiculous, but actually there's research where that has found that feeding a specific type of red algae that is. That does not grow here in, in New England, but does grow in Australia. Feeding that to cattle actually reduces their methane emissions by a very significant amount. Like in, you know, 90 plus percent methane reduction is enormous.
Like, methane is very harmful to the environment. Significantly more harmful than carbon dioxide. And so, you know, if we could reduce methane that comes out of cows, that is a big dent to climb.
Gabby Bradt
Do we have enough cows, though?
Jaclyn Robidoux
We have a lot of cows. We don't have a lot of seaweed. That's the, that's the kicker.
Gabby Bradt
Can sugar canes do it?
Jaclyn Robidoux
And that's the other kicker, is that this research is based on a very specific type of seaweed. It's called asparagopsis. Like I mentioned, it's quite small, so it's like smaller than a phone. You know, it is warm water and it is not native to here. So we will never farm asparagopsis here in New England unless it is cultivated in. On land, in. In facilities that I would imagine would have extremely high energy costs.
So it just probably will never make sense for us. We don't have a good sense at this point. Are there other seaweeds that create that methane reduction when cows eat them? So this is a really cool area of ongoing research that has potentially very, very big effects. So some of the research that's going on right now, at least here in New England and University of New Hampshire is involved in this with their cow. Looking at what are some native to the Gulf of Maine species that we could potentially feed to cows. And even if it's not 99% reduction of methane, like even 10% reduction of methane is a crazy impact.
So they're profiling. What are the ways, like what are the species and what are some of the process. Like how could you process these seaweeds in a way, way that. That even further increase that impact? Like if you inside it or if you ferment it, like, how does that change the effects that the seaweeds have on methane? But, you know, we're talking about the lifetime of a cow and the lifetime of a calf, and this is primarily looking at dairy cows, which also are a direct impact to people. So, you know, you have to make sure that that's safe for everyone.
And you also have to make sure that it's something that farmers will adopt.
Gabby Bradt
But that could also open up more. More opportunities for culturing these other seaweeds to meet that demand, if it actually ends up being beneficial. Right. So, like, that's a pretty neat pathway.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Right. Like you talk about, markets are one of the biggest challenges for seaweeds. And if this one was to come to fruition and there was a demand from, you know, dairy farmers in New England for this product, or rather feed companies that are servicing dairy farms, then that would be a big change, you know, for the landscape and for what species we would potentially be farming.
Mike Coogan
Who's growing seaweed you mentioned? Not the US for the most part.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Not the US Yeah.
Mike Coogan
Let's start there and then get back into the U.S. cool. We know Maine.
Jaclyn Robidoux
I will start by saying that globally, some of the big players include China, South Korea, Japan, Indonesia. You will notice those are all in the Pacific. Some of them are growing things like kelp, but others are growing things like it's called kappa ficus, and it's this small, bushy seaweed that produces that carrageenan that goes into those chocolate milk and ice cream that I mentioned. So those are some of the big players globally. To put this in perspective, the Americas, north and South America combined only account for about 1% of the total global production. And then, so you're wondering, like, well, surely the United States, we must be a front runner in the Americas. And the answer is also certainly no.
Some of the largest seaweed producing companies in the Americas would be Chile, Canada and Mexico. Mexico and even in the United States. By volume, our wild harvest industry greatly outnumbers our farming industry any given year. Coming out of Maine, we farm about a million to a million point five pounds of kelp, which is the most kelp farmed in the United States. So it's very exciting. You know, I feel like it ain't just lobster up here in Maine, but that's still a very, very, very small number. Like, we talk about it in pounds and the rest of the world talks about seaweed in tons.
Mike Coogan
And are there still some hotspots in the wild where you can go dive on a kelp reef?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Certainly, yeah. Yeah.
Gabby Bradt
Forest kelp.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Forest kelp.
Mike Coogan
Forest kelp reef.
Jaclyn Robidoux
I don't know. Forest is a plant word that we usually use.
So that's hence. Hence the confusion. We do have a number of wild kelp harvesters who will return to beds or rotate beds year after year. And the kelp that comes off of them is gorgeous. Yeah, it's really, really cool.
Mike Coogan
But destined for a different market, you said, right?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Still used in the food market, but it's a different kind of product. It's very thick and tough, which makes it great for soup stocks.
Mike Coogan
I am curious, curious about any restoration projects that are happening. Is anything happening right now?
Jaclyn Robidoux
There's definitely interest here. You know, there's a lot of talk about restoration elsewhere, especially in California and on the other side of the U.S. one of the areas of research that we'll see on kelp beds here is trying to understand their population genetics. So to really get a good sense of, like, what are we working with? How are these kelp beds related or unrelated? Because you can't restore something that you don't understand the genetics of in the first place. But some areas that are really involved in kelp bed restoration would be like Australia.
This gets into a bigger conversation about how you can select for kelps that are more resistant to warming to warm waters, or who have these heat shock proteins that can bounce back from marine heat waves better. In any population, certain individuals are, are gonna be better at that than others. And so how can we target those in order for restoration efforts? But that's kind of, you know, that's on the other side of the planet.
Mike Coogan
What do you need to start a farm?
Jaclyn Robidoux
Money, A boat, Number one. Boat and money. There's so many things you need, but I think number one would definitely be like a boat or maritime skills, because this is farming on the water. This isn't planting a garden on land. You know, if you don't know how to tie knots or to boat safely or to haul something very heavy out of the ocean, you're gonna have a really hard time out there, you know, so first and foremost, like a boat and maritime skills and then probably some money. You know, I think one of the reasons why a lot of our kelp farmers in Maine are also commercial fishermen. Yes, the seasons line up, but this is also equipment that they have, have like lying around in some cases or have really easy access to.
So a kelp farm itself is not like the structures are, in the grand scheme of aquaculture, not that expensive compared to something like nets or oyster cages or mussel rafts. Like, they're a pretty low cost investment because we're really just talking about buoys, anchors and rope. Like, that's the basic structure. If those are things that you're familiar with and you work with all the time. Time, then it's a pretty low barrier to entry. You know, if you've never started a. If you've never been on the water or you're not familiar, like, there's.
That's not set to say that you cannot become a kelp farmer, but the. The pathway there looks a lot different. People will call me all the time. They're like, I want to start a kelp farm.
I live in Los Angeles. Like, okay, you want to move to Maine and start a kelp farm. Cool. Like, let's. Let's talk about some of the realities of that. First, I want you to take a very cold shower and then stand in front of a fan. And if you don't like that experience, you probably want to.
I won't like farming in Maine in the winter. Like, it's like cold. Ice is over. It can be dangerous.
Mike Coogan
Highly tensioned systems.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Yes. Like, you're working with lines underwater under tension, holding tens of thousands of pounds of stuff. And so if you have a boat in the water and kelp allows you to keep the boat in the water because you're getting a little bit of a paycheck, you know, like, it's.
No one is becoming. I don't want to make it sound like people are becoming millionaires for a. And kelp, you know, a lot of these fishermen, it is a seasonal supplement that provides them a boost of income right before their big fishing season where they might need some cash to, like, do boat repairs or trap repairs. So it's very integrated in that sense. You know, people aren't making millions and millions of dollars farming kelp. And there's also no such thing as, like a full, you know, 365 day a kelp farmer, because those farms, in a lot of cases actually are completely removed in the summer. Most kelp farms in Maine, even on their permits down to the permitting level, will say, you know, June 1st or June 15th, all of my equipment, minus maybe the moorings that stay below the surface, will be removed, and then it will go back in October 1st.
Mike Coogan
Now, is there any work being done between when you seed out your kelp land in October and when you harvest it in April, May, June, if you.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Want to actually grow anything. Yes. You know, I think there's a misconception that it's like a set it and forget it, that you could just like, leave it and the kelp is just gonna grow. But that's not how things work in the ocean. Like, your kelp farm could ice over. This is the wintertime. So if you're in a spot where there's heavy ice.
Like this season, there was a lot more ice than we seen in past years. And so that's an issue if your farm is entrapped in ice. But it's also an issue of giant ice blocks are floating down and hitting your farm. Winter storms are pretty common here in the Northeast and those will kick up a bunch of debris. So you could have like logs or trees that hit your farm. And you have to think about getting out there and doing basic maintenance. I mean, the kelp is very resilient.
Kelp does not mind the winter at all. It will grow as long as it is on those lines. And it's very unusual for the lines to stay in the kelp to detach. Like, you know, if it's going, it's a full clearance sale. Like the whole thing is going. And it's obviously super important to have your farm where you think it is, both for you, but also for like everyone else who's out there on the water or for the people who live near the water. So the maintenance schedule, you might be going out and like just checking on the farm if there's anything that's like gotten trapped in it, trying to like fix that as safely as you can, making like checking that the kelp is growing so that you're not expecting to have £10,000 and you actually only have £2,000.
So, you know, it's like basic farm practices and folks will go out, you know, maybe like once or twice every few weeks.
Mike Coogan
Where can people find kelp if they want to try it out?
Jaclyn Robidoux
A great, great question. So traditionally in local foods stores, oftentimes they will carry seaweeds.
But you should ask. You know, I think it's first and foremost it's important that retailers, health and, you know, natural food stores, grocery stores know that people want to try this in the first place because if they don't know that they're not going to order it. A number of our Maine based seaweed companies will ship. If you're curious about ordering it. You know, a good resource would be either, at least for Maine. The, the Maine Seaweed Council has a number of seaweed companies, both for eating, but also for garden or other products. Or if people are looking for a starting point.
You can also check out Seaweed Week and we have a recipes page and that will link you to a bunch of recipes that are created by the kelp harvesters and farmers, which are really, really good. Like kelp. People know kelp so oftentimes sometimes when you find a kelp product, their website also includes, like, a billion different recipes that you can make with that, because they know that people don't know what they're doing. So Seaweed week and Seaweed Week.
Gabby Bradt
Let's end with Seaweed week.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Yeah. Cause it's our big seaweed celebration. It is Maine Seaweed Week. It is a seaweed food and drink festival that we started about seven years ago, so in 2018, with the goal of putting seaweed on local menus that we. We saw totally take off. Like, chefs and, you know, cocktail creators and makers, they come up with all sorts of crazy seaweed things or just, like, unexpected seaweed creations.
And, you know, the idea is, like, people don't. You might not buy it if you don't know what it tastes like or you've never tried it. So it's kind of like a try before you buy. And what better place to do that than at, like, a cool local restaurant that is interested in search serving local food. So that was kind of the origin of the idea. Each year, we'll have about 70 businesses and restaurants all across Maine sign up. It's kind of a fun way to get out and eat and try seaweed and learn about it.
And learn about it. Yeah. Well, cool.
Gabby Bradt
Thank you very much.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Eat kelp.
Mike Coogan
Eat kelp.
Jaclyn Robidoux
Eat kelp.
Mike Coogan
Thanks for listening. Each episode is sustainably cultured here at the University of New Hampshire and produced by Talia Katreczko. Get Aquacultured! is funded by the EE Blue Aquaculture Literacy Grant and supported by NOAA and the North American Association for Environmental Education. Subscribe today and listen to more episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like what you heard, leave us a review. We'll catch you next time on Get Aquacultured!.