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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
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Hello, welcome to our gaming daily sponsored by Optimove. I'm Ted Orme Clay and today I'm joined by Joe Streeter and we're going to look to a region that we don't talk often about on this podcast which is East Asia. We're going to be looking at some major developments in Japan and Thailand and then turning back to North America where we're going to talk about a monster weekend of combat sports from Las Vegas.
Firstly of course a word for our sponsor OptiMove. OptiMove is the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market. So Joe, before we get into the main sort of topic today, how's everything going with you? Obviously we've got a couple of weeks left before we go on our biggest trip of the year to the SPC Summit in Lisbon. How are you looking forward to that? How's all your plans coming along? Yeah, I mean it's almost impossible just to plan for the whole event, isn't it? I'm doing good though, thanks Ted.
really happy to be here. We've got a few interesting subjects today to talk about. So really excited about that. But yeah, actually say Lisbon edging ever closer. It feels like it's been in the calendar for a long time and you can really sense the not just the excitement from SBC, but the excitement from the whole industry, from payments, from iGaming, from sports betting. So many industries coming together. Really, really exciting time. And yeah, so much to see.
really difficult to pick out the specific things that you want to be part of and you want to engage with because there really is so much. Obviously you've got the payment expert summit that's going to be massive. I'm excited to see some of the developments there and we've got the iGaming stage as well which is going to be really interesting. We've been going over some of the topics we're discussing from sweepstake casinos to tribal gaming to live casino as well. There's really touching on everything and going into some
some real depth on some big insightful subjects. are you going to be moderating any panels all this year? I know that's something you've done in the past. Yeah, so I'll be moderating a discussion on niche games. So we're going to look at kind of the evolution of slots, how slots have become more immersive, how they can tap into new technology. We've got a great panel for that. Really excited for that discussion. And also we're going to talk about a separate panel is on a live casino.
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We're gonna look at how Life Casino has evolved, how it can keep up in the modern times, know, it's more of a market share is mobile as well. Yeah, some important times for Life Casino is at something of a crossroad. So I'm very excited for that discussion. And you have a panel too, right Ted, on the Payment Expert Summit? Yeah, I was gonna say thanks for chucking a shout out to the Payment Expert Summit. Obviously we've been doing a lot of work to promote that lately.
And yeah, I'll be moderating a panel on open banking with a few people from the industry with lot of experience in that respect. Obviously, this is something we've talked about a few times on the podcast, I think, about how open banking is becoming really significant within the industry, particularly if you look at like the UK and all the discussions about affordability here. So yeah, I'm going to be moderating that one. I think probably one of the
one of the biggest topics of the day I think and this is my first time moderating so I think I'm kind of jumping in the deep end of it with that one. Yeah if anyone wants to come down to the payment expert stage and hear my know silky smoothie Smydland's accent in person after hearing me on this podcast for so long you know it's all there. I would recommend as well because is it a really do or die time for open banking with an iGaming you know it needs to...
We're at an interesting point for open banking. need more adoption. Is it going to unlock the doors that it's promised or is it going to reach a level of unfulfilled potentially? Be fascinated to hear that discussion that you have. there's obviously a lot of topics going on at this conference, really at the crossroads. Anyway, moving on from that, we've talked a fair bit about what's going on in Europe. Now let's have a look at what's going on in Asia.
Speaking of things that are at a crossroads, there's been some really big developments in Thailand lately that you've got an update for us on. Can you just give me and Alison as a bit of an overview of what's been going on? Yeah, so since we last spoke about Thailand on this podcast, there's been quite a few developments. They had governmental change. The minister, forgive me for pronunciation of the names here, the minister, Prime Minister Satheta Thavisin was replaced by Prime Minister Srinivasa.
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the actually the daughter of former Manchester City chief, Thaksin Shinawatra. That left everything a bit up in the air because prior to that they had gone back to the government had gone back to the public with feedback for feedback on the on the bill on the bill to legalise casinos and then there was the governmental change and it was kind of up in the air of would the from the same party
But would they have the same sort of focus on pushing life, pushing casino legislation as the previous government? Well, the Dax in Xinawatra, he gave an insight that they would. He gave a slight clue. Most recently, Prime Minister, his daughter, Xinawatra has come out and supported the bill saying that they're going to really push for a fun economy.
In her policy statement, she called for the development of up to seven integrated casino resorts, is it's going to be massive for Thailand. Three of these are going to be in Bangkok. going to be mega projects. yeah, they're really going to be entertainment complexes, which is going to be a real boost to the economy. It's going to be good news for the sector and for kind of a resort.
land -based companies, they're going to have a keen eye on that development and they're going to be looking to Thailand now as a region that is one for potential prosperity. know Genting was one that had previously touted it as a region for potential expansion, so it's certainly going to raise attention. Thailand seems like it could be really interesting market in the gaming side of things because you mentioned quite a few times I've noticed there about the entertainment side of stuff.
Thailand is obviously a really big tourist market, isn't it? There's plenty of people from Europe who always go travelling to Thailand when you get people going on these sort of inter -railing trips and out throughout South East Asia, they always stop off there. It's got a really big night -time economy and things like that. So it makes sense really that I think they'd be looking at the casino side of things as part of that wider makeup. Yeah, and the casinos, they aren't just casinos, they are, I think,
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One of the interesting things from Shinowatra's statement is that she's likely to put forward that they're allowed 10 % of floor space dedicated to gambling. So these places are not, these venues are not going to be out and out casino venues. They're going to be entertainment complexes and they're going to be so much more. They're going to really bring something to the fun economy as it was previously called. Yes. This casino is just only going to be
like one small element of that then that's quite an interesting development there. the free in Bangkok as well, the free casinos in Bangkok, they really tap into that tourist economy that you're talking about I think. Okay so that's clearly quite an interesting development to keep an eye on. So now if we turn away from Thailand, there was another country we mentioned of course which is Japan, can you give us a breakdown of what's been going on over there? Yeah well I mean
The urgency from both regions is not coincidence. There is something of a race going on. are both trying to be the first. They're both just, you know, they're being touted by so many operators as emerging markets. Even if it's a faint interest, they are raising interest from so many operators. So the recent developments in Japan are that MGM took a decision to
waver its right to withdraw from the Japanese market. That means that plans for a casino in 2030 can be formalized. This project is going to take place in Osaka and it's going to be worth around 10 million dollars. Again, like Thailand, it's to try and boost the economy, of course, and this resort is not
set to be just a casino. There are less regulations around that at the moment than with Thailand. We're less cut and dry than with the Thai regulations, but it's going to be an entertainment complex and it's really looking to boost the economy of the region. It's quite an interesting, interestingly different approach that both these countries, both these East Asian countries seem to be taking towards the gaming sector, I think, in comparison to Europe. If we look at the UK, for example,
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You have a lot of venues that are just clearly betting venues, don't you? Like betting shops, casinos, the main purpose of a casino is you go in, you play the games, you play slots and maybe have a drink on the side, might have some sport on. But out here, it's just like one aspect of a wider entertainment sort You have to bear in mind as well, you've got what is essentially to us, Vegas very close in Macau. Macau is obviously going to be the gambling heartland of Southeast Asia.
it's trying to enrich what is already the culture there, and what is already the tourist economy there, rather than trying to be the heart and soul of it, if you like. I was just thinking, well as can imagine, Japan's probably quite an interesting market to keep an eye on from a betting perspective. There's sports betting, if I want to be a bit more specific there, just because it's obviously a very well -developed economy. It's a very wealthy country. There's a lot of individual wealth, and people have a lot of disposable income. And it's also very
there's a very strong sports culture, isn't there? know, football has a good following there, baseball's huge. There's a lot of following of like overseas leagues. And then obviously you've got like combat sports, kickboxing and MMA both have quite a strong pedigree in Japan and the background there. So I think that'll be quite an interesting one to keep an eye on as and when future developments continue and more regulations become clearer. Well, I think you kind of tap into something that's pretty crucial. It's quite a nuanced market. And I don't know, I've, you know, I've not
spent enough time in Japan, but it's not, it's going to be vital for operators that kind of enter the market to understand the nuances, understand the culture and yeah, really have a localised approach to tapping into players and ensuring that they kind of, yeah, take them on a journey they want to be taken on. then as you mentioned earlier, this seems to be somewhat of a bit of a race to sort of regulate in both these countries and launch these entertainment centres, as we've said, not strictly casino, it's more of entertainment centres.
When do you reckon we can anticipate these venues opening? Well, if reports to be believed, we're looking at kind of in Japan, we're looking at building kind of starting construction commencing in 2025 with a view to 2029 opening. yeah, in Thailand, we are looking the same way, you know, construction is likely to start very soon. The new prime minister kind of taking it on the forefront and being on the front foot with things and then
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2029, 2030, around a similar type of time. That's predictions from those who make them. Okay, great stuff. Cheers, Joe. So obviously, yeah, there's a lot to break down and digest and a lot to keep an eye on there. We're just going to take a quick break from this podcast and then come back to you later to talk about altogether a very, very different topic. And welcome back to our gaming daily. Obviously, yeah, we've just had a quite a thorough breakdown of some things going on in Asia.
Now we're looking back to North America to talk about a sporting scene that Joe and I are both quite big fans of, which is combat sports, both boxing and mixed martial arts. So this weekend we've got a really heavy night in both of these sports. We've got two giants really competing against each other, not necessarily in the ring though, but in terms of market share. So we've got...
Canelo Alvarez versus Edgar Belanger in the boxing. And then we've got a very packed UFC night in Las Vegas as well. So Joe, let's just start off, give us a bit of a summary. what are we doing with here? Yeah, let's it's a really unique situation. Because obviously we're used to seeing people go head to head in these sports all the time. But what we're not used to seeing is the two sports kind of go head to head like this.
And it is essentially in terms of for the UFC, the best product they can put out there is their pay per view. And this is a good card, a pretty strong pay per view card, but as an event, it's set to be spectacular. It's a very unique event. It's at the Sphere. I'm sure we've all seen the Sphere. We've seen you two doing shows at the Sphere. How are you going to have a fight and immerse it in the Sphere?
We're going to have to tune in and find out that's what is up in the air. That's what the allure of this all is. And for boxing, I'm not sure aside maybe from the heavyweights. I'm not sure there's a hotter ticket in town than Canelo Alvarez. Nobody draws the eyes of draws the eyes of the boxing world more than Canelo Alvarez. So we see both guys put their both, I guess, sports, put their front foot forward and they put their main their main horse ready to run. It's going to be fascinating.
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The other kind of side story, if you like, is it's Mexican Independence Day. So UFC always as a new tradition of doing kind of a tribute to Mexican fighters on Mexican Independence Day and at the Sphere, they are going to really elevate that. And part of that is they're going to pay tribute to Canelo because he's such a huge part of Mexican fight history. Well, obviously they're trying to tap into a Mexican audience there.
across the road you have probably the biggest legend right now in Mexican boxing in Canelo Alvarez fighting. there is a real, real clash and it's going to be just so interesting to watch. Yeah. I mean Canelo is an athlete. think, I don't think sometimes people in the UK really appreciate how big of an athlete he is. I mean, how his jaw is. Yeah. You know how big his jaw is and how much of a, yeah, just a presence he is really in sports. I mean, we were talking about earlier, he's
He's one of the most highly paid athletes in the world. has a massive following. He's obviously won titles in various divisions. He's known for being a really ferocious puncher and also being incredibly technical and having a lot of skill and like ring IQ and things like that. very intelligent fighter. And if you look at the top, the top pay -per -view buys of all time, obviously the UFC is littered in there, but also Canelo Alvarez is all over the kind of top 10 list.
the top 20 list. He's had several fights, top a million, hasn't he? Yeah, with the Gennady Golovkin fight, the Floyd Mayweather fight, of course. But what I would say about this event is it's not that. As much as Canelo sells on his own, always draws. I don't know how much the appetite still is there for him to just keep destroying middleweights and or super middleweights. And he's going to do that against Balanger. I think it's not got that.
kind of appeal of a massive fight that, you know, maybe, maybe he's had in the past. So that's one thing where, yeah, maybe that event falls short. I know they were talking about putting him with Crawford recently, and that would have had that big name appeal on both sides. the other thing we've got to consider with this is when we're talking about like athlete branding and athlete marketing, the UFC has got a pretty big arsenal with this one as well, hasn't it? mean, even if you look at the
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Just look at the headline fight alone. It's Sean O'Malley for one is a massive global phenomenon right now, isn't it? Yeah. Well, it's really interesting. know, the Sugar Show is in full swing and Sugar Sean is a massive name. is the champion. He's leading this massive card, but there's kind of been this double, double, double pronged approach to marketing this event. Many people are watching. Many people are tuning in for UFC the Sphere. They want to know what the sphere is all about, but also
Sean O'Malley brings that name brand, brings that, you know what you're going to get, he always brings fireworks. So they've got both sides covered. But for the Canelo card as well, think one of the criticisms about boxing compared to UFC has always been the cards aren't as stacked, but they really understood the assignment on this one because top to bottom, you've got Danny Garcia, you've got Stephen Fulton. It's a strong card top to bottom. So if you're looking for a full night of action, you really do have two choices.
Yeah, commercially, it's going to be so interesting to see which one which one wins and from a from a little bit of extra perspective, I guess it's worth noting the politics here that the UFC has a deal with MGM and the T -Mobile arena. They were let out of that deal for one fight and then the T -Mobile put on the Canelo fight. So, yeah, some real politics going on, some real sports politics.
And yeah, we see Saturday night who, but I think both events kind of suffer from being on the same night, right? Ticket sales have been a little bit slow on both sides. We'll see how pay -per -view views do. Yeah, I think both events have kind of suffered commercially a little bit. Yeah, I can imagine both of them were probably a little bit annoyed with the scheduling clash and would rather have it be clear, wouldn't you? Let's just try and ground this a bit in more of what sort of scope of this podcast is.
How big a night do you reckon this could be for bookmakers? Obviously, you know, both sports have quite a big history of being bet on, you know what mean? Like it's very popular, just calling rounds, calling who you think is going to win, calling how you think they're going to win. These are all very popular options, very popular betting markets. Yeah. How do you reckon this could be a pretty big night for the bookies? Well, yeah, exactly. We've kind of spoken about all the, you know, the viewing figures are going to be kind of split.
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The ticket sales are obviously going to be split. You're only going to be going to one if you're going. But betting wise, betting engagement, especially with the pacing of boxing, you're going to have time to watch two UFC fights and then tune into some boxing. You're to be able to kind of engage with both. You're to be able to bet and combine your bets on both events. So that's really going to be an opportunity for operators who want to tap into this kind of late night combat sports crowd. Yeah, I think is a real chance. I think if they're going to
to maximise it. They've got to make sure that props are up early. You you could even give some cross promotion options, some kind of offers there. Yeah, I think there's a real opportunity definitely. And so many names as well that people are going to want to kind of tap into. yeah, on those big names. You're going to want to bet on the Canellos, the Valentina Shevchenko, the Sugar Sean O'Malley's as well. Yeah, there's always quite a big scope for
marketing, customer acquisition around that, there? Potentially putting offers out there, put a bet on Sean O'Malley to win by KO, get X amount of free bets. We've seen the operators do a lot of that sort of stuff before around UFC fights and boxing matches. So yeah, there's definitely a lot for firms to consider when it comes to this. I guess lastly, what about the broadcasting element? Yeah, it's obviously, I mean, you're the insider sport guy, so I should probably
counter this one and send it back to you, pardon the pun. I mean, so we've got Dazon is the Canelo fight in the US, right? Dazon the Canelo fight. The Canelo right, so between its Prime pay -per -view and Dazon pay -per -view are the two big ones on that. And the UFC is ESPN, right? Yeah, yeah. And obviously, if we want to go back to the UK where we have it, it'll be BT Sport, I'd imagine. The UFC will be BT, just kind of free to air. I should say. TNT, sorry. TNT.
Blimey. Yeah. The UFC will be on TNT free to air. Then the Canelo fight will be on Dazon. Is that a Dazon paper view in the UK? That's very interesting. But then I think there's less option in the UK. I don't think you're going to want to if you're staying up for the Canelo fight, you're not going to be swayed. You're going to want to watch the Canelo fight. You're of that audience, right? Whereas
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Unless you've got two TVs. TVs and you need the both. Just double combat. yeah, I think there's less... Whereas in the US, obviously the pay -per -view prices are so astronomical, you're going to choose one and stick to it. yeah. So yeah, well, obviously we've covered all sorts of bases here. Which one will you be watching Ted? Which one would I be watching? man, that's a... I feel like with this one, I'm more swayed with the UFC. Because of the sphere?
Not just that, I think it's a good night of fights, there's a lot of talent on the card. Not that there isn't with the Canelo one, but I think the last few times we've had clashes between the two I've tended to go for the boxing, so I think with this I'm going to mix it up a bit, you know what mean, go for a different one. Valid point actually, just to close, the last time this happened and there was a Canelo fight and it clashed with the UFC event like this, was Masvid Aldeaz and Canelo Kovalev.
And there's a really famous shot of Canelo sitting on the sofa ready to go. And he's lying on the sofa because they said, we're not going until the UFC main event is finished. So he's ready to go. He's a mega star Canelo getting paid way more than any UFC athlete aside from Conor McGregor. And he's sitting waiting, just waiting around because they said, we don't want to clash.
And he was fuming apparently. yeah, kind of interesting if you can find that picture of Canelo looking cross on a, on a sofa backstage in his full boxing. Yeah. Big weekend for sure Ted. hope you enjoy it. weekend. Yeah. A lot of combat sports action for people to keep a lookout for at the weekend. And as you said earlier in the more long -term, lot of interesting developments to keep an eye on in Thailand and Japan as well. So Joe, thanks so much for joining today.
Talk us over with me and to our audience. See you next time.