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Travis speaks with Shane Mahoney from the Wild Harvest Initiative. Shane is an international authority on wildlife conservation and is a rare combination of scientist, historian and philosopher. Shane is a gifted orator and insightful thinker with a profound commitment to wild nature, rural societies, and to the sustainable use of the earth’s natural resources.
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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The
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April 1st announcement.
Today, I'm excited to be
joined by the president
of Conservation Visions
and founder of the Wild
Harvest initiative.
World-renowned
conservation it's Shane
Mahoney, Shane possesses,
a rare combination
of conservationists
scientists, historian,
and philosopher.
Shane is a gifted
order and insightful
thinker with a profound
commitment to wild
nature, rural societies
into the sustainable
use of Earth's
natural resources,
Shane, welcome to The
Silvercore Podcast.
Well, thank
you very much.
It's a great question
to be here and I'm
looking forward to
our conversation.
As am I.
Now I don't wish to
recapitulate your many
accolades and there
are many as others
have very eloquently
done that before me.
So instead I will,
I'm going to have
a complete bio on
our website for our
listeners to reference.
The Silvercore Podcast
is about sharing our
passions with others.
What I'd really hoped to
achieve with this podcast
is to distill your almost
palpable enthusiasm
for conservation and
communicate that to our
listeners in a way that
makes a somewhat nebulous
concept, more tangible.
And second, I would like
to learn more about the
Wild Harvest Initiative.
So with that said,
growing up, I don't know
anyone who's naturally
inclined towards
conservation as that
concept doesn't tend
to enter the mind until
there's a realization
of what could be lost.
And it had me wondering,
when did you start
your journey as a
conservationist and
what sparked it?
Well, I think you're
right in one sense that,
um, you know, individuals
don't begin, even in
their explorations
of nature of thinking
about conservation.
But I think very early in
a child's exploration of
nature, the ingredients
for a conservation
awareness is born.
Um, it really starts
with some basic elements.
Um, one is the
fascination with other
living things, whether
they be insects or
sticklebacks or frogs
or whatever it might be,
butterflies and bees.
Um, and the other, I
think is just a sense
of a rare combination
of love and adventure
that seem to emerge
simultaneously, at almost
every, any level of
engagement with nature.
So a young child,
um, engaging in the
natural world, maybe
catching small trout
or catching insects
or catching frogs.
You know, if you were to
ask that little human,
why aren't you doing it?
Uh, they probably
shrug and say something
like, it's fun.
It wouldn't get into
a detailed explanation
of breaking fun down.
But fun generally is
something that makes you
feel good, something that
makes you happy, uh, and
something that you'd like
to have a lot more of.
And so I think in fact,
the road to conservation
can begin extremely
early, but I don't
think it always has to,
it can start, it can
come to people later
in their lives, too.
And part of that is a
sweepstake, you know,
uh, where you were born,
uh, what opportunities
you had to be in nature.
Um, who your
parents were, who
your friends were.
Um, my particular case,
um, my path was in
fact established almost
from the womb because I
grew up in a very rural
place, I grew up in a
very isolated place.
And for those earliest
of early years, being
a part of nature was
very easy because it
was all around us.
You stepped out of
your door and that's
where you were.
And I lived in a
culture in Newfoundland
where people lived by
harvesting wildlife,
fish, they were
fishermen, primarily.
They raised some
animals, of course,
for livestock purposes.
And we all had gardens.
And so the lifestyle
was very much one of
self-sufficiency and
rhythms that were
determined by nature.
And so even as a young
child, you began to
understand the rhythms
of nature, when trout
could be caught in
the small streams.
And when tadpoles would
disappear under the
mud and when certain
bird species would
no longer be around.
So I spent my earliest
days engaged in
nature, catching eels,
catching, catching other
fishes off wharves.
Uh, you know, surveying
tiny little streams
that I thought were
massive rivers, you
know, and learning
about the muskrats
and the mink and other
things that were there.
So as a boy of three
to five, I mean,
this is what I did.
So I am sort of the
exception to the rule
perhaps, in that, that
was what my life was and
in a very true sense, my
life has never changed.
Right.
I went on to
become a man.
I, you know, took
degrees at universities.
I became a
research biologist.
I worked with, uh, bear
and caribou and moose and
lynx and coyotes so on.
And did all of those
exciting things that
people see, you know,
and started some of them.
I mean, the radio
calling programs, you
know, the, the jumping
out of helicopters.
The immobilizing of
bears and their dens,
you know, all of
these kinds of things.
Climbing the cliff faces
to study sea birds, which
I've worked on for a long
time and being around
the sea, a great deal
is a very emotionally
charged and life-changing
thing anyway.
And so I came into it
in a sense from the
womb, uh, I was born
into that circumstance.
I lived that
circumstance, I loved
that circumstance.
And two things came
out of that experience.
One was more than a
fascination, but as I
said earlier, a love
for wild things that are
real belief, they, they
were part of my life,
the frogs I caught and
kept to the insects.
I kept and tried
to keep alive.
All of the things I did
that way, they were part
of, I spent more time
looking after them in my
family, then I certainly
spent looking after my
sisters and brother.
And so, uh, it
transitioned after a
while from fascination
to something of love.
And as I went on my
reading binges as
a very early boy, I
was a voracious early
reader and continued
that through my
university days and
to the present day.
All of that love and
fascination for wild
things and any animal
actually, not just wild.
Um, you know, I got
to live it out in
my research career
in wilderness areas
for years and years,
I spent massive
amounts of time alone.
Uh, and ultimately
I came to a point in
my life where I, now
my fundamental creed,
my Celtic belief,
if you will, so I
am an Irish citizen
as well uh, is that
there is no difference
between us and them.
Mmm.
I see absolutely no
difference between us.
We're different,
we're all different.
The Zebra is different
from the horse.
The man is different from
the whale and the whale
is different from the
great eight, but I don't
buy into any of the ideas
that we have dominion,
that we have superiority.
Some of our talents are
superior, in some ways to
the talents of animals,
some of animals talents
are superior to others.
And yet, despite the
fact that I believe all
of this to be true, I
also firmly believe in
the, in the lifestyle
of sustainable use.
In the harvesting of wild
things, the utilization
of wild things, and
people will often ask
me, who know me well,
particularly anti-hunting
organizations who
know me quite well.
How is it that I
can still hunt and
fish given the fact
that I have these
very strong opinions
about, um, animals.
And I explained to
them that the primary
issue here is not
whether I love them.
The primary issue is
that I am one of them and
that the laws of nature
are not made for all the
other species and then a
separate law made for us.
There's only one series
of laws of nature, and
all of us demand the
same things from the
environment we live in.
We need clean air, clean
water, we need food.
We need some sense
of freedom, all
animals seek it.
And if you deny it to
any animal, including
the human animal, you
abirate, you change,
you deconstruct, you dis
you just disassemble,
uh, the health
processes of the animal.
We all know this to
be true, something
else we all share.
And, uh, so I simply
can see no honest way
of living than to live
as the animal I am and
being the animal I am to
live in this complicated
world of harvesting other
animals and plants and
berries and fruits and
so on from the natural
world, as much as I
can, in modern time.
Um, and I don't have
any moral or ethical
uh, problems with
that, but I certainly
do have emotionally,
emotional tensions over
the killing of things.
And so while I have
hunted extensively,
uh, it is never
a simple thing.
And I have very little,
if any respect for people
who hunt or fish and
who treat animals as
simply targets and who
seem to believe that
they don't feel the
bullet the same as we do.
Uh, they do feel the
bullet exactly the
same as we do, exactly
the same as you would.
But again, none of that
can change the fact that
the laws of nature, the
laws of ecology are what
they are and I would
sooner harvest as much of
my food from the wild as
I can, I'm very fortunate
to be able to do that.
Not every one in
the world can.
And I also feel very
deeply that the animals
we raise for food
ought to be raised
in a very caring and
ethical manner as far
as humanely possible.
I absolutely agree.
What do you currently
see as some of the
biggest challenges
to the lifestyle of
sustainable use of our
wildlife and resources?
Well, there are many,
some of them are just
mega issues, there
are there, there are
overreaching issues
that are not in any
sense, usually local.
So for example, the
sheer number of human
beings that we have on
the planet is really
causing disruptions to
all lifestyles almost.
Sure.
Um, whether one has
retreated to cities
or moves out to the
suburbs or wherever
one goes, the sheer
numbers of people and
the amount of industrial
infrastructure that is
necessary to service
the basic needs of
those people is creating
of course, a massive
problem for everyone
and the sustainable
use lifestyle, some
of its components are
healthy because they're
absolutely essential.
So, all international
fisheries are sustainable
use activities, and
nobody is dreaming of
stopping them because
the, you know, half
the world would starve
immediately if we did so.
On the other hand,
sustainable use
activities that some
of your listeners might
be thinking about,
you know, their own
activities of hunting
moose, or elk, or bear
or turkeys or waterfowl,
or fishing for bass or
Lake trout or salmon,
or, you know, Whitefish
or whatever it might be.
Some of those tend to
get quite a bit more
attention sometimes
because people see
them as unnecessary.
They see them as a
little bit, you know,
you could go to the
grocery store chain, you
could buy all your meat
from another source.
You could get all
of your berries and
fruits from there.
You don't really have
to go out into the wild
and do those things.
And so that's one part
of it where people see,
why don't you be like
the rest of the world?
The majority of the
world, living in urban
centers and simply go and
get your food that way.
And then there are
the iconic issues.
So the international
hunters going to places
like Africa or central
Asia to hunt iconic
species, such as, you
know, elephant or lion
or something of this
nature, which causes a
massive backlash amongst
a lot of people and
even more locally, such
as British Columbia.
Mmm.
The idea of harvesting
iconic species, such
as grizzly bear, for
example, uh, or now in
New Mexico, there are
bills to end all trapping
on public lands to end
all black bear hunting
in the current session,
which will probably pass.
We have this, this
international arena
talking about far away,
you know, people hunting
animals, and then we
have local issues,
particularly with
carnivores, like bears
and wolves, especially,
where people just say,
why are you doing that?
And if you're not eating
them, then I really
don't think you should
be doing this at all.
And so it's the
combination of
those things.
You know, society
never stays the same.
Society in the 1930s,
forties and fifties,
didn't host this
array of opinion.
There were some people
who felt these ways,
but not as extensively,
but in the early decades
of the two thousands.
Now we are into the year
2021, we can expect many
of these attitudes to be
more openly discussed.
We can look to see
more legislation coming
forward, but at the same
time, I will predict
that we will also
see a countercurrent.
That movement against
hunting and things of
that nature has moved on
enough, matured enough
that now you're starting
to see second guessing
on the part of people,
counter reactions to
some of that thinking
starting to take place,
where for example,
people are saying.
You elsewhere should
not dictate the lives
of people who live
in these rural and
local circumstances.
And that too is becoming
a global phenomenon.
So we are going to
witness in the next
decade, in particular
and the next two decades
perhaps, a really
strong countercurrent
exchange between animal
welfare, animal rights,
hunting, sustainable
use, uh, lifestyles
and so on and so forth.
It's, uh, it's a, it's
a combination of all of
those things that are
happening and you know,
people in the hunting
and, and, and sustainable
use space need to
realize something.
They need to realize
several things.
They need to realize that
this issue of whether
we will sustainably
use nature is tied up
with politics, it's
tied up with social
attitudes, it's tied
up with economics.
It's tied up with,
uh, you know, the
kinds of, uh, cultural
traditions that people
have grown up with.
It's based on so many
complicated factors.
We tend to try to want
to control the easy ones.
Oh, and I don't
know if people are
hunting and fishing.
Hey, let's get more
people out there hunting
and fishing, good idea,
nothing wrong with it.
I have no problem with
that, but that is not
going to provide us
with the insight to know
about how we're going
to keep sustainable use
harvesting, going in
the longterm and the
debates over whether
we can do that or not
are not going away.
We're going to
have to deal with
those increasingly.
Mhmm.
You know, I, I have
been seeing a shift
here in the last few
years, particularly
with COVID recently.
There's been, I think
they call it the
locavore diet or the
a hundred mile diet or
the desire for people to
start harvesting their
own food locally and
in a sustainable way.
So we've been seeing
that trend growing
in the cities.
And with COVID coming
in, there's been a lot
of people that have
been scared about what
they read and see in
the media and that
fear will instill in
them the desire for
self-sufficiency.
And we're seeing, on the
firearms side, there's
gun stores are reporting
massive increases in
the amount of sales
that they're making,
as well as interest in
basic outdoor survival
and safety, hunting,
self-sufficiency.
I have been watching
a trend prior to COVID
that seems to accelerated
because of COVID and
I have to wonder how
this conversation is
evolving around hunting
and the sustainable
use of our resources.
Is it going to, uh,
evolve essentially
in spite of us?
There is a desire
to get more people
out there hunting.
There is a desire to
have, change the way that
we talk about hunting
and harvesting animals.
Uh, we don't want to
call it a sport, we
don't want to call it
recreation, even though
we, in our province of
British Columbia, it is
listed under the sports
and recreation section of
the provincial website.
With the correct
information, we can
start making some correct
decisions about how
we progress with this.
And I believe that's
the intention of the
Wild Harvest Initiative,
is to pool as much
information as you
can so that you can at
least let the data speak
for itself to hunters
and non hunters alike.
Am I correct in
that understanding?
Yeah.
If you are in
card, correct.
In that, I mean, I think,
I think ultimately the
Wild Harvest Initiative
was built out of the
very kinds of reflections
that you and I have been
sharing on this podcast.
First of all, a
relatively small
percentage of society
really cares about
conservation, only
a small percentage.
You ask a survey of
course, to people over
the phone, and everybody
will say they're
concerned about it.
But the proof of the
matter is that only,
at this point in time,
a relatively small
percentage of the
population is concerned
about conservation.
Secondly, those
that are concerned
about conservation
are deeply divided.
So you have people who
hunt and you have people
who fish, and people who
berry pick, and people
who love wilderness, and
people who will hike,
and people who snowboard,
and people who kayak
and blah, blah, blah.
And they certainly
don't all share
all the same views.
So here we have a
problem of the big
conservation vacancy
that we need to fill.
And we have a relatively
small number of people
who are interested in it.
And in that box of
relatively small
number of people,
most of them are
inside with like this.
I see that a lot.
And it's for the listers,
you had your, your hands
in a pugilist stance.
Yeah.
So, you know, this is
what we're up against.
And I have seen almost
nothing in the last
30 years to move
us away from that.
Well, I've seen hunter
retention and recruitment
efforts, and I've
seen people say we all
should talk together
and I've seen various
efforts of that kind,
but show me the meetings
that are taking place.
Show me the programs that
have years behind them.
Show me the circumstances
where this is
actually changing.
And they're very few,
they're very rare and
they're very localized.
And you can go across
the breadth of Canada
to try to find this and
you might have a certain
committee, you know,
funded by a government
agency or something
that, you know, by
virtue of its funding,
forces people to come
together or something.
But by and large, you
simply do not have this
happening organically.
Well, the motto on my
website is one, you know,
one natural world, one
humanity and one chance.
Cause that's what
I believe it is.
And so I wanted to find
some way, I spent 33
years as leading research
teams, publishing
in journals, setting
up an Institute, you
know, doing all those
kinds of things.
And that wasn't
getting the job done.
It was giving us a
lot of knowledge about
bears and caribou and
moose and predator prey
interactions and all that
and that was all good.
But this wasn't
doing anything about
building a broader
conservation community
to advance conservation.
So I started to
think about, okay,
what are the issues?
What are the issues
that fit into these
two categories,
at the same time?
Number one, there are
issues that everybody,
if you discuss it with
them will care about,
and number two are
issues that are already
public in society
they're already manifest.
And what of those issues
could be helpful in
building a community
for conservation?
And I landed,
surprisingly, on the
idea of wild food
and wild harvesting.
Why?
Because everyone is
concerned about healthy
food, more and more
people are concerned
every day about healthy
food, the world over.
That was not true
25 years ago, it
is true today.
And more and more people
are also concerned
about their own physical
health, their longevity
and their fitness then
was true 25 years ago.
And these trends are
escalating in society
by any measure.
Number of cookbooks,
number of people in
fitness programs,
number of people,
taking yoga, number of
people cooking at home.
Number of people
with small gardens,
number of people in
the locavore movement.
Number of people buying
organic, number of
people complaining about
hormones and additives
into the food systems
that they have, the fear
that people have over
GMO products, et cetera.
There is so much evidence
to indicate that this is
a fundamental movement
in society and the
sustainable use movement
has spent its entire
lifetime fighting against
the social trends that
it thought were damaging.
The people who didn't
like hunting or the
people that didn't
like hunting carnivores
and people that didn't
like one form of use
or another catch and
release fishing or
whatever it might be.
I wanted to find a way
to work with factors
in society that we're
moving in our directions
that I could capture
and be positive about.
I like that.
So my effort is the
antithesis of what
has been going on.
And I was part of
what was going on
for a long time.
So I know what
was going on.
This is the antithesis
of what was going on.
Working with societies
change to build more
change, not trying to
stand up and hold my
hands against the changes
in society, which is
a fruitless exercise.
I agree.
So I can see this
idea of food.
And then I started
to think about,
all right well, how
much food is there?
How much food
do we harvest?
And the answer
to that question
was, no one knows.
So a hundred years
after we start the
North American model
of conservation, no one
in Canada, no one in
the United States can
answer you the following
basic questions.
How many species of
fish and wildlife do
we harvest in Canada
in the United States?
How many individuals
from all those species
do we harvest in Canada
and the United States?
What is the food
amount of the harvest
of all those fish and
wildlife in the United
States and Canada?
What is the economic
value of all of that
food so that it becomes
meaningful to politicians
as a discussion point.
And what would it cost
tomorrow if the 40
to 45 million hunters
and anglers in Canada
and the United States,
didn't acquire this
food on their own and
required that food from
the grocery store isles?
How much more wildlife
habitat, how much more
fertilizer, how much for
more petrol, how much
more land, how much more
environmental intrusion
would be necessary to
actually provide that?
Now every one of those
arguments will resonate
with the people who are
concerned about their
health, are concerned
about the quality
of their food, are
concerned about how long
they're going to live
and how good they're
going to look and how
healthy their lungs
are going to be and on
and on and on and on.
And for some, how much
wildlife is there going
to be in the world that
they get a chance to see?
How clean water be, how
healthy will our land be?
How lovely will our
forest look, all those
kinds of questions.
So I set out to do this
and four years into
this program uh, we are
now the custodians of
the largest knowledge
base in the temporary
world on the harvest
of wildlife and fish.
We continue to work
on this, we're adding
new data all the time.
We are adding new
players all the
time, new partners.
Uh, we have succeeded.
We have the government of
Texas, the government of
Florida, the government
of Arizona, the
government of Nevada, the
government of Wyoming,
the government of Alaska.
The governments already
partners in this.
We have the gorillas,
if you will, of the,
of the industry world,
the outdoor industry
world, Bass Pro, and
Cabela's, that empire.
Johnny Morris himself
personally, they are a
major supporter of this.
We have the supporter in
Leupold, the great family
owned optics company.
Uh, Sitka clothing,
uh, Mystery Ranch,
et cetera, et cetera.
So we have big players
in the industry side of
this, on the NGO side,
we have an enormous
array of entities
going all the way from
international hunting
organizations, such as
Dallas Safari Club and
Wild Sheep Foundation,
all the way to the most
determined, localized
North American specific
hunters like Backcountry
Hunters and Anglers.
For example, the Rocky
Mountain Elk Foundation.
Uh, the US
Sportsmen's Alliance.
I mean, we have
just a powerhouse as
well as some private
philanthropists, the
National Wildlife
Federation, the
New Mexico Wildlife
Federation, you know.
The list goes on.
And, uh, a lot more.
And they are all
currently working and
funding with us, work to
make this work happen.
And as we gather the
information, of course,
we are coming out
with completely novel
information on the amount
of food that comes from
wild turkeys, the amount
of food that comes from
mule deer, the amount of
food that comes from elk.
And we can divide
that up from state, by
province, by region.
And we are now giving,
uh, those numbers
economic value by dealing
with rating entities in
Europe and the United
States, they give us,
you know, the equivalent
cost if you were to sell
this in the marketplace.
And we are coming out
with lists of fact sheets
that our partners can
distribute everywhere.
Writing articles,
obviously op-eds
appearing in magazines.
And then now we may
have a television show
that may be emerging,
we'll see what's
going to happen there.
The point is that even
in the COVID year, We
just signed up three
major new partners,
the state of Alaska,
the state of Wyoming
and the Wild Sheep
Foundation of Alaska
in the midst of COVID.
Wow.
So, and now we have
interest from Africa.
To try and see if there
is a way of bringing
this model and this
program to Africa.
And of course, in
the state of British
Columbia, we have the
Guides and Outfitters
in British Columbia
who have been partners
in this for forever.
We had hope the Wildlife
Federation of British
Columbia would join.
And I still hope that
someday that they
possibly they will.
But the point is that
we do have some support
in, in British Columbia.
And we did have strong
political support
in British Columbia.
At least when the
liberals were there in
power and hopefully with
the NDP there now, they
will look at this as
well because look, the
ultimate idea here is to
explain to people that
nature is a source of
health and sustenance,
and we need to care for
it because it is capable
even in the 21st century
for modern societies of
providing vast amounts
of healthy food as well
as recreation, as well
as helpful experiences.
Nature is our
free hospital.
Nature is our
free pharmacy.
And so we are expanding
our work now to go
beyond fish and birds
and mammals, and we're
in major discussions with
the US Forest Service.
To talk about bringing
the databases on wild
berries, shed antlers,
wild mushrooms, firewood
harvesting, medicinal
plants, wild rices.
In other words, anything,
anything that you
might go out and be
interested in harvesting.
So you don't have to be
a hunter to be a part
of what we're doing.
You might be a foreign,
uh, mushroom gatherer
and, uh, and a mountain
hiker, but you know,
anybody who was into the
harvesting of natural and
wild foods, we want them
to be a part of this.
And we intend to export
this around the world
to remind modern society
that we are still
ultimately dependent
on nature for our
survival and for our
food and for our health.
And maybe to force
governments in countries
like Canada and the
United States to do a
better job of managing
land for the production
of those kinds of
things that people want.
Instead of making
decisions only on
the basis of profits.
Or emotion.
Yes.
And I, you know, I,
I really like the
concept of piggybacking
on a trend that's
already occurring
rather than trying
to fight the current.
Because, you know,
I'm looking through
the list of things in
different questions
and you're, you're
pegging off a bunch
of the ones that I'd
like to ask you about.
But, you know, hunters
have always been
beating that drum.
Hunters are
conservationists and
they support conservation
through the purchase
of their licenses
and tags and the, the
North American model
of conservation last
hundred, 120 years of,
of that has been highly,
highly supported by, by
the hunting community.
Whether they understand
conservation or not,
being able to bridge
that, from the hunting
community to the, the
non-hunting community,
I, I think it's
absolutely brilliant.
You listed a bunch of
different organizations
and these organizations
are massive that
are involved with
the initiative.
How can an individual
who is interested in
conservation, who's
listening to this and
says, you know what?
You raised some really
good points, I want
to learn more, I
want to be involved.
How can an individual
be involved with this?
Well, we, we, we do have
individuals involved,
but it's, but it's
also important to be
upfront and honest.
I mean, to be a partner
in the Wild Harvest
Initiative, there has
to be some sort of
financial commitment.
Now, those financial
commitments
vary, obviously.
You know, you don't,
you don't have the same
financial commitment from
you know, a Bass Pro,
as you may have from an
individual outfitter,
you know, it can't be.
But what everybody who
is a part of the Wild
Harvest Initiative
knows is that everybody
who has become a
partner has contributed
something to make it,
the collective work.
So I have lots of
people who come and say,
Hey, Shane, you know,
we'd like to have our
logo associated with
your, uh, with your
partnership and I say,
that'd be really great.
You know, I understand
that and I know why you
would want that because
when we put out our
brochures now and we set
up our big displays of
conventions, and then
we show some of the, the
powerful, influential
people who are on our
side, I know it would
be good for you to
have your logo there,
but I have to think
about all the people
who are there and every
one of them made some
kind of contribution.
And so that is one way.
If you want to be part
of the alliance or the
actual team in Wild
Harvest Initiative,
you have to come
with the intention of
supporting it some way.
Now, supporting it in
some way, that way, of
course that's clear.
That's the way
it has to be.
There was the promise
that was made to the
partners, the state
governments, and everyone
else, that people who
were inside the loop who
have access directly, who
get to call Shane and ask
questions of the website
and their area and all
those kinds of services.
There are on the inside.
But that doesn't mean
that people on the
outside who may want
to know more about it
um, who may not want to
give money or may not
have any money that they
can give or whatever.
They can still help this
initiative by talking
about, you know, by,
by, by joining our
mailing list by, by
sending us their email
contact information
so they can be getting
the information that's
coming out and then
they can share it
with their friends.
Look, we are determined
to establish a new
movement in society.
This is not a project.
This is an unrelenting
activity to create
a new movement in
society that's made up
of, you know, elderly
people who get out
there in the forest and
love to just go with
their grandchildren
picking blueberries.
It's meant for the, for
the, you know, the mad
fitness hunter who wants
to, you know, run up
and down the mountain
50 times before he even
looks for an animal.
You know, it's meant
for the, for the
float fishermen who's
going down there.
It's meant for the
people who like to seek
out their firewood and
gather it up and chop,
chop it up and bring it
home and enjoy putting
it on their own fire.
It's for the artists who
would like to collect
shed antlers and create,
you know, jewelry.
It is for the people
who collect, uh, burrs
out of trees to, to do
sculptures or wooden
bowls or it's for people
who, who, who from
indigenous communities
and others understand
the dissonant plants and
want to harvest those.
It's for everyone.
And if you add up
everyone in our
society, who does
some of that, everyone
forty-five million
hunters and anglers.
Well, how many berry
pickers do we have?
How many hikers
do we have?
Who simply
harvest beauty?
Yes.
That's a harvest
from nature.
We're going to
be including that
in our database.
You know what, because
if you go out for any
activity in nature,
harvesting berries,
fishing, hunting,
chopping firewood,
collecting wild
flowers, collecting
wild honey, maple syrup.
There's so many
things, no matter what
you're out there for.
When you come back and
tell your stories, and
everybody tells stories,
you can't shut people out
there got to tell their
stories about nature.
That's the amazing thing.
When they come back to
share those stories,
most of what they
talk about is not so
much the berries they
got or the animal
they got or whatever.
It's the experience they
had, the things they
saw, the sunset, the
river, the shadows of
the moon on the water.
They, the, the, the
wild flowers blowing in
the wind, whatever it
is, most of what they
talk about is beauty.
But the thing is,
they wouldn't have
ever harvested that
beauty, except they
went out into nature.
And for many of them,
they had a primary
motivation that day
to go to nature.
Very big, to get their
firewood, to hunt, to
fish, you know, they
had some motivation that
particular day to go.
I want all of those
people talking to one
another and I want all of
those people talking to
politicians and telling
politicians, this is
what we want done with
our wildlife, our land.
And I want to bring
the indigenous
and non-indigenous
communities
together because
food unites us all.
I couldn't agree more.
Oftentimes you hear from
people, what can I do?
I'm just one person.
Well, for the listeners,
if you'd like to see what
one person can do, with
the help of a large team
of others behind him,
checkout Shane Mahoney's
website, Conservation
Visions, check out the
Wild Harvest Initiative
because when you're
talking about how to get
involved, the boots on
the ground, networking,
that one person is
capable of doing.
They throw up something
on their Instagram feed
or they do a Tik Tok or
they just raised basic
awareness about what it
is that they enjoy out
in nature and the value
in preserving that.
And by forwarding the
Wild Harvest Initiative
information with
that, they'll have
some tangible metrics
that they can be used
to measure what that
valuable resource is.
I think, I really like
what you're doing.
We are very fragmented
and there is a
lot of infighting.
My side's better than
your side, or if what
you're doing is wrong
and it sure sounds
like you've got the
secret sauce here.
If people are willing
to participate, for
people to work together
for our own, everyone's
shared interest.
We do, we do have
the secret sauce.
I can tell you
this right now.
I spent, I spent 25
years promoting the
North American model and
as part of my efforts
and certainly others.
People today would not
even know there was a
North American model
if those activities
had not taken place.
I know that for a fact.
Well, I'm telling you
this idea is even bigger
because this idea could
bring together people
who are never going to
be really interested in
the North American model
of hunting, but they're
interested in wild food.
And the other thing
about this is that.
There's absolutely
no limitation on
background or age or
ethnicity or racial,
uh, uh, background or
anything of this nature.
Because when you look
at all of the products
in nature, from beauty
to wild plants, to
medicinal plants, to
mushrooms, to, you know,
wood, all the products.
Everybody, to
some extent, wants
some of that.
We have 40 to 45 million
people in Canada, in the
United States, as I said,
who every year, legally
fish and hunt and who
consume what they, what
they harvest, not all
of it, but a lot of it.
We are currently
running surveys, uh,
scientific surveys.
Uh, we've run one in
Texas as a prototype
and we are now going to
be running surveys in
Wyoming, Nevada, Arizona
and Alaska, where we
are asking for the first
time, asking hunters,
starting with hunters,
we'll move on to anglers,
asking them how much of
the meat they harvest
do they share and who
do they share it with?
So let's say in Canada
and the United States,
in terms of hunters, we
have 12 million, five,
let's say let's just
make it very conservative
estimate, say we have 15
million, let's just say
15 million hunters in the
United States and Canada.
We actually have
more than that.
But let's say that that's
about what we have.
Our A priority, in
other words ahead of
time, hypothesis is that
each of those hunters
probably shares that meat
that they harvest with
at least four people.
And we based that
cautiously on a
household, so it leads
to the wife and maybe
the two children.
But our initial survey
in the state of Texas
indicates in fact that
the average hunter maybe
sharing his meat or her
meat with between 10
and 12 million people,
the 10 and 12 people.
So now you start to
multiply 15 million
people by 10 or
12 million people.
Now all of a sudden the
group of people who's
actually consuming
that wild meat.
I'm not saying they're
dependent on it, I'm
not being meretricious
or air at all.
I'm not saying they
depend on, I say, they're
just having a burger or
they're coming over for
a nice meal, or they're
getting a roast of moose
or, you know, a pot of
chili or whatever it
might be, but they are
consuming that food.
All of a sudden the
political dynamic here,
it goes from 15 million
people to 150 billion,
because if that 150
million people did
not think that hunting
was in some sense
acceptable, they wouldn't
be eating the meat
that you would provide
for killing an animal.
And we are going
to do exactly the
same with fish.
And we believe that the
40 to 45 million people
who hunt and fish in
Canada and the United
States share that food
with probably something
like 250 to 300 million
people out of the 360
million people that exist
in our two countries.
Holy crow.
Now, if you're a
political scientist,
you're a social
demographer, you're
an economist.
Those kinds of numbers,
all of a sudden start
to mean a lot different
to you in your research,
in your thinking, in
your writing, in your
lobbying, et cetera.
So I don't want to
be going back to
legislatures, arguing
for just hunters anymore.
I want to be going to
back with a group of
people behind me, all
of whom want to share
in the benefits of
nature, who are going
to the legislatures
and telling our
elected officials, ie.
the ones who gave
them their jobs.
I want us to be going
there as a group of
people that wide,
and that diverse and
telling them we want
the right policies
for land management
and conservation
in our countries.
And I don't want them
split along liberal,
conservative NDP,
Democrat, Republican
lines, because there's
going to be too many
different kinds of
us in this group.
We don't care who's
in power, we want you
to do the right thing.
That is what I'm
striving for.
That's what the
Wild Harvest
Initiative is about.
That is absolutely
phenomenal.
Shane, before we wrap
things up, is there
anything else we should
be talking about?
Is there anything
you'd like to get out?
Well, I'm just grateful
that we've had this
opportunity and I would
like to listen to, I
would like to say that
if there are others out
there who had their own
venues, if there are
media people who have
talk shows or, you know,
shows on radio, for
example, if there are
other podcasts colleagues
that are out there who
are interested in this.
Please get in touch
because part of what
we are striving to do
is to get the word out
to as many people as
possible, obviously.
Um, and also encourage
any of the people who
listen to this podcast,
as an individual or as
a member of a group.
You may be a member of
the Audubon Society.
You may be a member
of Backcountry
Hunters and Anglers.
You may be a member
of the BC Wildlife
Federation, you may
be a member of GOA BC.
You may, you know,
maybe all kinds of
organizations, Ducks
Unlimited, whatever.
Try to convince your
organization to become
a part of what we
were doing because
we are growing.
We have at the database,
we now have these
surveys being conducted
in these States.
We're way down the
road on this thing.
And now we're in
major discussions with
people about Africa.
This is amazing.
It has lept already,
you know, uh, around
the world where people
have been hearing about
this and if individuals
and or their entities
want to learn more about
it, go to our website.
We also have a Wild
Harvest Initiative
website, specifically.
We're looking for
feedback on that site,
but please consider
becoming a partner.
The individual can
become a partner
at a small level.
Obviously, if you come
from a big organization,
like Four Trucks, we,
we, we, we look for you
to, to, to, to make a
larger contribution.
There are all kinds
of businesses.
I assume your podcast
is primarily listened
to in British Columbia.
Is that correct?
Is that a fair
assessment?
Primarily Canada.
Yeah.
Primarily Canada based.
So wider than British
Columbia, so across, um,
you know, uh, I'd like
for maybe an even in
future podcasts, you can
start to bring this up
and encourage people to
get in touch with us, to
actually become members,
uh, Travis, you know, to
actually ask them to, to,
to reach out and help us.
Uh, there are lots of
organizations that could
provide financial support
to make this work.
There's lots of
individuals who
can do that.
And there's lots of
individuals, even if they
can't provide financial
support, can talk about
this, can tweet it out.
Can, can, can put it
on their Facebook site.
Can, you know, look
at the videos that we
produce and pass them
on to their friends
and so on and so forth.
And believe me, when we
throw things out today,
we get a lot of reach.
We hit a million, a
million and a half,
2 million people when
we throw things out.
So, um, this is, uh,
this is a big idea.
It's an inclusive idea.
It's about things we
really feel important
about our health,
the health of our
environment and the
health of our food.
Why would you not
get behind this?
Shane, thank you very
much for being on The
Silvercore Podcast.
I've really enjoyed
speaking with you.
Thank you very much.