Authentic, Authoritative, Unapologetic ServiceNow commentary by Cory "CJ" Wesley and Robert "The Duke" Fedoruk
TheDuke: Holy mackerel.
We are back from Knowledge 23.
What would you say, Corey?
Barely, I'm barely back from Knowledge 23,
CJ: Man, I have a Knowledge
23 Hangover Duke, like I am.
TheDuke: I'm not even sure
I'm at the hangover stage yet.
I'm still high, like I'm,
I'm shredding the hangover
CJ: I, I miss it.
Like it, it was just
such a great experience.
And for me especially, right?
Like, I mean, I know a lot of listeners,
if you were knowledge, you probably saw
my face all over the place, but you know,
TheDuke: the place.
It was awesome.
CJ: But it, but it is also like
coming back from the pandemic.
Get everybody from around planet in
one place, talking service now, like
it, it is , such a tremendous amount
of passion and electricity in the air.
TheDuke: So much energy, it is always
been an energetic event, but you
could have 10 more knowledges and
not capture that energy, I think.
CJ: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
it was definitely my favorite of
all of those that I've attended.
And I started back in 2013, so this was
like my 10th anniversary of knowledge
and I, we'll just go ahead and include
the digital ones too and say that
this is like my 10th knowledge and it
was just like the best of all of 'em.
TheDuke: Speaking of everybody, we
have a very special guest today.
CJ: And speaking of global,
TheDuke: Yeah.
so love to, welcome to
the show, mark Rudolph.
Mark: thank you.
Good to be here.
TheDuke: it's our second time around.
Did I pronounce the last name right?
Mark: Yeah, absolutely.
No worries.
spot on.
TheDuke: So Mark, was that knowledge too?
What did you think, mark?
Mark: Oh, let's, uh, it was a lot.
obviously there's Las Vegas and there's
the conference both really interesting.
Uh, cause I, I, I, uh, I didn't
visit Las Vegas before, so it
was my first time in, Las Vegas.
I had good fun, Saw a lot of new
things, new impressions, met a lot
of people, walked a lot of miles.
So, uh, the, the, the, the, the
comfy shoes, things that everyone
is mentioning, definitely do.
So, Yeah.
And also a bit of a hangover.
I really had to recover on, on Sunday
and Monday, but now, almost a week
later, I'm already like, well, we
could do this again next month.
Um,
TheDuke: If only worked that way.
Wow.
CJ: right.
Mark: it, it was, uh, it was a
really good experience and obviously,
, knowledge being global again.
lot of people.
I think si about 16,000 people, I guess.
yeah.
And good, good sessions.
, so yeah, I thought the
level , was pretty, pretty well,
CJ: You,
Mark: yeah.
Really nice.
CJ: you said it was your
first time in Vegas.
Right?
and that just made me think
about that, for first timers to
Vegas and coming to knowledge.
Like I almost feel like you need to
get there a couple days early, right?
I feel like knowledge kicks off.
Like, well I know pre-con kicks off on
like Sunday or something, but knowledge
kicks off in earnest typically like that
Tuesday, I almost feel like you need
to get in on Saturday and just explore
and have the Vegas experience, right?
So by the time knowledge
kicks off, you're not.
Vegas scene two, right?
Like you're, you've, you've
experienced it, you're good with
it, and now you can kind of focus
a little bit more on knowledge than
the city that never sleeps, right?
Because it doesn't sleep.
Mark: Yeah, that's, definitely so.
And actually, uh, um, uh, I
also arrived on on Saturday
and I left, the Saturday after.
So I did, uh, indeed at
a, at a few days exon.
That was really well, that also
contributed to the extra miles,
or I don't know exactly in mouses,
but like in kilometers, , I
walked about 116 kilometers.
so that was a lot where
we even attempted to walk.
from the new strip to the old strip.
But that was a bit much, and
especially being, uh, being so hot, uh,
outside, while we were there because
it was a really good temperature.
But Getting a few days, uh,
earlier in seeing Las Vegas and
yeah, a lot of impressions of
course, but, really interesting.
definitely a good thing to go, uh,
a few days earlier to adapt if you
need to, but also to, to be able
to, to see a lot of, uh, Things.
And also because everything is so
big already in the convention center
itself to just know your way little
bit around, uh, the, the script.
Uh, so yeah, just a good thing.
TheDuke: Speaking of interesting.
and like everybody's talked about
the energy level, but what, what
did you think was the biggest,
technical spectacle of knowledge?
What, what were you most impressed by?
Technically, I.
Mark: maybe two things.
first, how well the organization
was because how big everything
is and how smooth, , everything
seemed to be for us as visitors.
So that was, a huge
compliment to serve now.
I'm just looking at.
All the information and knowledge,
obviously, gen ai, is a subject
which pops in mind immediately
and, and is, yeah, is announced.
really big and obviously
some amazing demos on it.
Obviously they were demos, so let's see.
But, um, gen ai, generative a, uh,
ai, does really pop out, right?
that was the biggest thing.
TheDuke: maybe we could take
a few minutes and talk about.
Use cases we can all imagine for Gen ai.
CJ: Oh, I think that's a great idea.
TheDuke: I'm gonna steal
some from the show.
Like I, I had the blessing and opportunity
to be a judge in the hackathon this year,
CJ: Oh, nice.
TheDuke: there's a couple cool use cases.
one of them was basically taking all
the stories and stuff from a sprint
and basically summarizing them all
into like one release note sheet,
which I thought was pretty cool.
CJ: Wait, wait, wait.
Say that again?
TheDuke: basically you would take
a application or something with a
lot of stories linked to it for a
given sprint, and then Gen AI would
basically rip through it and then
make a summary of what was in plain
English of what was gonna be deployed.
CJ: Yeah, that's what I thought you said.
It was funny because I'm actually
using chat g p t for that right now.
TheDuke: Nice.
CJ: So that's, pretty cool.
All right.
What else you gotta do?
TheDuke: another team, it was
actually the team that won the
application engine studio, , category.
But they had some part of the city
planning would do marketing for an
event, and instead of hiring a marketing
firm or whatever, it It was a really
simple workflow like, Hey, market
this event, here's the topic, here's
the date and the location, and it
would go out to chat, g p t and chat.
G p T would make you the copy for a flyer.
CJ: Yeah.
That's awesome.
That that's
TheDuke: thinking, so basically
like anything that involves at
least a draft of writing something
is on the docket for chat.
G P T.
CJ: Yeah.
And you know, that one's a bit
near to my heart Being an elected
official in a village, right?
Like that's something I can very
easily imagine us, utilizing here.
TheDuke: what about you, mark?
You see anything on the horizon for that?
Mark: Well, I think like what you're
saying, like, that certain documentation
or whatever is being, created already
and that you got the first draft.
So that could be really helpful.
but yeah, also the geni, what,
what they show that knowledge
that code is being generated, that
flows are being generated for you.
Uh, based on limited input or I
was at one session and that was
about, generating ATF tests for you.
CJ: Ooh.
Mark: and okay.
They speeded up the demo a bit.
They also said so because, also took,
uh, several minutes, but with a push
on the button, they could actually
generate hundreds of ATF tests based on.
How instant management was set up on
that instance, but also they can account
what customizations you did or if you
had some custom fields or, they even
mentioned they could do that in theory
on custom applications and whatever.
So that would really be interesting.
so yeah, there was a huge use cases.
I do think it's.
the base setup.
It's the, the first several percentage of,
of things that's being generated for you.
And then you still have to
do a lot of things yourself.
But I do think, yeah, that it will
speed up the consultants a lot
and that you can do probably way
more in the same amount of time.
yeah.
CJ: So you just said something
that's really, interesting to me.
Mark, you, you mentioned how that it's the
base setup and then you'll still have to
do like some configuration on top of it.
I think that's very important to
note, for a couple different reasons.
But for the main reason is that
I think most people, and I know
I'm one of those people, find.
Editing something that exists a little
easier than starting from scratch, right?
So often when I'm writing something
like say I'm writing my newsletter
or when I was running the campaign
writing some political copy or I.
Just thinking about like
an application, right?
Or a business rule.
It's a lot easier if I start with
something that's already there
and then start to modify it.
Now the end result might be
something completely new, right?
But , just having that, thing
to kind of look at and, and gain
inspiration from, I think really
does help a lot of folks get started.
TheDuke: and on that point, I
can't tell you even before I really
knew what generative AI was and.
Long before chat, G P T I
longed for a little co-pilot
CJ: Right.
TheDuke: you guys remember Star Trek?
I'm assuming everybody heres a, a lot
of our listeners might be too young for
like the next generation Star Trek where
they just walk up to the replicated,
like computer tea, hot and it, it was
CJ: no.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Hold T.
Oh, gray hot.
Let's get it right.
TheDuke: right.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Negative four Star Trek fan points.
Okay.
But like, have you ever been in neck
deep in a script and you've got some
kind of sample record that you wanna run
through with it, and so you're basically
like going back to your main tab.
So that you can open, say the user's
table in another tab so you can find
a user so you can copy their CIS id.
So you can go back to the script where
you're gonna use that CIS ID to go get
the user and have the script do its thing.
And it's just like, wouldn't you love
to just tell the thing go get me the
CIS ID for Robert Fedor, user record.
CJ: Yeah.
TheDuke: know what I mean?
And
CJ: Oh my God,
TheDuke: almost like a
virtual agent, right?
So you have your code thing up and
running, but I don't wanna like,
I don't wanna open the interface
so I can freaking navigate.
CJ: dude.
Mark: Yeah.
TheDuke: just like, go get me the
cis idea of Rob from this table.
Do it.
CJ: man, that's amazing.
So when you think about it, right,
like you said, VAR var user to like a
generative AI prompt that which is get me
five demo users in, you know what I mean?
And it's.
TheDuke: or even like a virtual agent.
Just call him Fido to go fetch, right?
Fido, Go fetch me this and it's just
like a virtual agent sits maybe in its
own tab or whatever, and then I can
just take whatever it gives back to me.
I'm sure I want the generative
AI in the code interface unless
I'm telling it to make me a
glide record script or something.
But, but I've just, I've so many
times I've had to reach for something
that's all the way across, and
that's how you get like 10, 12 tabs.
CJ: right.
TheDuke: Across your navigator bar
cause you're like, you need to be able
to check on such and such a record.
And it would be even better
if that was voice operated.
CJ: Huh,
Mark: Well, maybe that's, the next thing
to have it also voice operated, But
it is like, making your life easier or
having, um, yeah, certain code or, or
whatever being auto generated for you.
And you al already have
the, the base, right?
So you can do more in the same amount
of time or you already have some
examples of a certain good standard.
that will be really interesting.
I do see it also as a base and not, it's,
it's full coat or full flow or whatever.
Cause I, I did feel, some sentiment,
that knowledge that people were
thinking, oh, now everyone can do this.
so maybe even people from a,
a service desk or whatever.
Yeah, I personally don't believe in that.
also really no code, stuff.
I don't believe in that because still, at
some point it gets more complicated, so
you really need the technical consultant
or who, who's going to review it or.
Who is going to govern this?
Because if everyone can do this
and no one is on top of this,
it will get a mad, mad show.
And that's not how it works in my opinion.
TheDuke: Oh, for sure.
Like I, I've been using chat g p T to
either write me scripts or find me the
instructions to do something like I was
trying to launch assessments from a script
and I was like, give me the instructions.
And it it would have like eight step
process and then like step seven
was just completely batshit crazy.
And then what?
CJ: And then Z Butcher and says, what?
Mark: Oh.
CJ: Oh, man, that's awesome.
But thinking about this, right?
being a a huge proponent of the
people side of the business, right?
I feel like this gives just an
immense amount of advantage and
value to folks who are really
good at the people stuff, right?
like you said, mark the governance,
but also the ability to interact with
stakeholders to make sure that the
requirements that you're getting, that
you're gonna feed into generative ai.
Are the requirements that the
business actually needs and wants.
Because I, I do think like as this
thing becomes bigger and better
and gets more pervasive and you
start to get that sprawl as anyone,
will be able to get started on it.
Not everyone will be able to a,
finish it and two, you know, know.
how it's interacting with, with
everything and how the business
can best use the results, right?
So I think there's gonna be a lot
more, need for the qualification
upfront and that management over
time, than we currently have now.
Mark: Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
CJ: So, mark, tell us about instant scan.
I, I know you're,
TheDuke: scan.
CJ: I know you're doing a lot,
with that, and I see you talking a
lot about it on, uh, on LinkedIn.
So yeah, why don't you close in to,
uh, some of the secret sauce there.
Mark: I can, talk a few hours on it.
Um,
no,
TheDuke: got a precise
question about it though.
What's stopping the adoption?
Mark: yeah.
That's a really good one.
because in my opinion, Incan
should be used at every
customer on everyone's radar.
Maybe not Incan, maybe you've got
something from a third party or whatever,
but something similar should be, one of
the, top priorities within every customer.
if we just talk about Incan, as the,
the, the out of the box application from
ServiceNow, it's just an application,
on everyone's instance with which you
can interrogate your whole instance.
It has such a powerful scan engine, which
yeah, you can just scan almost everything.
obviously the first thing people.
our thinking about is scanning, scripting,
business rules, script includes whatever,
and our scripts up to a certain standard,
certain coding, best practices, whatever.
But in my opinion, it's, it
can be way more like Incan.
You could also use to
check your infant health.
our queues being processed.
are your mids gring, , how
is your email doing?
Is there backlog?
Your email showing your
triggers or whatever?
so you can use it for, for that.
you could also use it to
CJ: Can we, can we pause
right there for a second mark?
Because I think, because I think
that's, really interesting.
one of the things that I'm, I, focusing a
lot more on lately right, is dashboarding,
and I think ServiceNow is too.
but the reason I'm tying that, , to what
you just said, right, is like there's a
lot of these performance, metrics and,
and things that are kind of hidden below
the surface, And we're not necessarily
exposing them, on a regular basis.
And you're.
What you're saying is basically
what, instant scan is that we can
have this almost kind of feels
like AI to a certain extent, right?
Like we can have this thing, this
process kind of running, that's gonna
surface like these potential problems
or these existing problems, right?
and kind of give them some airtime
to the folks who need to fix them.
am I, am I understanding that correctly?
Mark: Yeah, that, that's
definitely possible.
basically Incan will just generate,
uh, those, findings for you.
so it gives you that insight.
But then still you need to think
about how am I going to embed.
Scan in our way of working.
And then you do need to set up yourself.
are you going to use
notifications for that incident?
Uh, are you going to trigger
integration, or whatever.
That's something that you do need to set
up, That does not come with, with Incan.
Incan itself is just a base application,
which can just, scan your whole
incense and produce a lot of findings.
but then it's what do you
do with those, findings?
so that's really, really interesting.
but yeah, that's already another
subject, like embedding Incan
in your, in your way of working.
but yeah, let's, start at every customer
is, Actually using it and using it
regularly and, perhaps using it scheduled.
Cause you can also just schedule, all
the Incan checks or suites or whatever.
so that's, really interesting.
TheDuke: It is got a point
scan capability too, right?
Mark: yeah.
Yeah.
TheDuke: don't wait for
the scan this happened.
Go tell somebody.
Mark: Yeah, yeah, that's, that's one
of the out of the box possibilities.
Point scan.
So you can scan any artifact, like,
a script include, for example.
And then, all the scan checks
are being performed against
that, script include the same.
You can also already do out of
the box for update sets, so you
can scan complete update sets.
And the same, you can also do out
of the box for scoped applications.
so you can scan the full, application.
that's all also already
something like, yeah, how to
embed it in your way of working.
Cause maybe some customers want
to embed this when you're closing
an update set or when you're
finishing, uh, a new app version.
Or maybe you want to perform this
every one or two weeks at the end
of your, uh, sprint, for example.
So, yeah, that's already a
bit the, the way of, working.
which you need to, to, to think of.
CJ: I like that phrase,
the way of working.
, because I do think we don't often
think of the way we work as a cohesive
ecosystem sort of level, thing.
But we off, we just think of it as a
series of tasks, I have a story, so I
gotta build this thing, I gotta test
the thing, then I gotta push the thing,
But there's a way, that there's a rapper
around all of that, That we don't always
think about and maybe often gets missed.
As well, And so there's a phrase where
folks say like, if you don't create
the culture of a, business, right?
Then it'll get created for you.
I feel like the same thing here.
And if you don't intentionally
create a way of working, then it
gets created for you with basically
like your developer habits, right?
Like that kind of just eek out.
Mark: Yeah,
CJ: And, and I, and I love how you
mentioned integrating Instant scan into
your way of working here and doing that
intentionally as a way of adoption.
Mark: Yeah, I, I just want to
mention then, that it's even way more
because I, I, I just was mentioning,
that you can, perform checks on
scripting and, and stuff like that.
And then also mentioned, performing
checks, like, how, uh, is your
instance health, but you can also.
Use this for a support team.
for example, your daily system
administrators jobs, like checking.
How is the data in your instance?
do you have issues on your attachment
stable or on your incident stable?
Uh, like, uh, uh, or a lot of,
uh, workflows, active for, uh,
close incidents or, or whatever.
TheDuke: So you can basically
make your own health checks.
Mark: yeah, definitely def
definitely.
TheDuke: instead of is it coded
and configured in a healthy way?
It's just like, am I past some kind of
health threshold that I want to measure
that's independent of the platform.
Mark: Yeah, definitely.
But actually because of
that you're checking also.
Yeah.
Data issues obviously.
Uh, at the end you have
to fix those issues.
But there's most likely, a certain
cost behind those data issues.
So there might be something
wrong in your coding.
There might be something wrong
in your flows or workflows.
So eventually you are still getting to
technical issues, which are brought up
to the surface, but also those data,
checks are really important cause.
Maybe people are not aware that
they're looking at reporting,
which is utterly incorrect.
But yeah, now these data
issues are popping up.
Or maybe, maybe you're using tools
like process, optimalization,
slowness, whatever, and you have
all these kinds of conclusions on
data, which is actually incorrect.
Also on that end, Incan can help so much.
just to give a small example, I
performed Incan a few weeks ago
at, the bank in the Netherlands.
And we had more than 6
million scan findings.
More than 6 million findings.
That's incredible.
So really interesting.
TheDuke: Does, does a finding
presuppose that there's something wrong.
Mark: yes.
Uh, scan finding.
Yeah.
Obviously,
TheDuke: 6 million things.
Mark: you, you, you might argue on some
things, that's definitely possible.
But it can already be that, of
that 6 million findings, that half
a million are about one issue.
Um, so try to locate that issue.
Take that issue away,
then Solve those findings.
And maybe those are data
findings or whatever.
And then, that chunk is
already gone, for me.
It's also not uncommon that you have
millions of findings, because I'll be
performing hundreds and hundreds of
scanning checks, yeah, it does tell that,
that, that there's so much work to do on,
on everyone's, uh, search now instance.
TheDuke: We could probably make this
show, whole show on instant scan.
It's, it's something I'm trying to
get way deeper on because I have
been obsessed with the concept of
admin sensor since they ruled it out.
But I'm just like throwing
my hands up and side.
I'm gonna build my own because.
There's such a passive way for current
admins to, understand their instance
and understand what needs to get done.
No, I shouldn't say it's passive.
It's the opposite of that.
CJ: Proactive is what
I like to think of it,
TheDuke: that's where
it needs to be, right?
It needs to be proactive and the
proactivity can come from passive scans.
Meaning look for these things that tell
me if I'm healthy or not healthy, and then
tell me otherwise, like you're waiting
for somebody else, almost external to the
team to pick up on the symptoms of this.
Like, this workflow isn't running right,
CJ: Yeah.
TheDuke: you know?
And wouldn't you like to know that
way beforehand, like Mark was saying
about, are your events getting
queued up and processed correctly?
Because flows basically
come from events, right?
doesn't the flow put an event in
the event queue A flow instance?
Mark: Yeah.
Yeah, that's uh, that's true.
Yeah.
TheDuke: Yeah.
So if it's not, getting there
or if it's getting there wrong
or so I, I don't know, but
CJ: No, I'm following you on this, right?
Like if there's an, if there's
an outcome, right, that you can
predict, then you should be able
to run a scan against that outcome.
If you're not seeing the outcome,
then it then scan a flag at,
TheDuke: And just like Mark said, 6
million things, six, 6 million findings,
and who cares how, deeply they're grouped.
The fact that this was
effectively invisible information
for, for me yesterday.
CJ: right.
TheDuke: And then imagine you got
your admin dashboard where it's
like, here's your admin accounts
that are active in prodding.
The last time they logged in here
is your security center results.
Here are, update sets from your, lower
instances that have been completed
on those instances in the past week.
And then here's your instant scan results.
And it's basically A complete dashboard
information about your instance that
otherwise was invisible to you, you
would have to go about proactively.
Uh, getting it yourself
is not even passive.
Sorry, I'm totally, somebody
pulled my rip cord and let me go.
CJ: No, man, I, I'm with you on this.
Right.
I think that's one of the
great things about it.
You know what I love about the
ServiceNow platform, right?
Is that there are so many of these sorts
of things that, the use case for them
are, is not always obviously apparent.
on what the intended use
case for it is, right?
Like, so Insta Scan has like a, a ton of
these like kind of secondary and tertiary
use cases that you can use to make your
way of working a whole lot better, but you
know, if you look at the documentation,
documentation might only have like a
certain, selection of things, right?
I look, I think about data
certification the same way, right?
Like there's so many interesting
and cool ways that you can
use, that application that.
Aren't necessarily the way the ServiceNow
intended, but are still super valuable.
I feel like instant scan is one of
those things that is in that same
category of ServiceNow created it
to do this sort of thing, but didn't
necessarily think we were gonna do all
these other cool things with it too.
But it's still, that just
makes it super valuable,
Mark: Yeah, and it's also your,
imagination is your limitation.
So you really have to come up
with these things yourself.
CJ: Put that on the
Mark: are no
CJ: mark.
Put that on the t-shirt.
Your imagination is your limitation.
I
love that.
Mark: For next year.
Okay.
But, um, it's just, there are no
examples like these, so you really have
to come up with these, uh, yourself.
And also because Incan
out of the box is only.
supplied with a really limited
number of scan checks, which are also
mainly focused on what you already
see on Instant Security Center.
so you really have to create those
scan checks yourself and Yeah.
And you can do so.
And, uh, I've also created a
ton of Articles and information
on that, so everyone.
Should be able to, do crazy stuff now.
But, um, I think that's also the point
on, uh, why it's not that much adopted.
probably because out of the box,
there's hardly any skin checks
shipped with, uh, with Incan.
so I think that's, that's
one of the factors also,
TheDuke: one of your favorite
instant scans to build?
Mark: I don't know if I have
particular ones or probably if I'll go
through the, through the whole list.
But it's more that, uh, that,
that the skin checks you.
You've got several types of skin checks.
You, you've got some simple
ones, simple, uh, table checks.
You've got some, column checks,
and those are not that spectacular.
But especially the linter checks, they
are a lot harder, a lot more complex.
but with those you can.
Create some nice checks
on, on, on scripting.
but they are just way, way more complex
and I, feel like I only touch the tip
of the iceberg on that subject yet.
So I really still have to, to
dive into that way more and.
see how much more we can get out of it.
Even that I already published so
much on Incan, I think there's way
more that we can do, but uh, yeah.
CJ: Okay.
You just mentioned how you've,
written and published so much
stuff about instant scan.
you have written and published so
much content about so many things,
like, man, you are prolific,
TheDuke: Yeah, in ways he's prolific
amongst those who are prolific.
He makes prolific people just go, damn.
CJ: Right, like, right, like you got
the 1% and you're like the 0.1%, man.
And, and, and, and first I just
wanna say thank you on behalf of the
community, for giving so much back.
I know it takes a lot of time,
but, I want to ask too, like,
what makes you do it, right?
Like, I mean, like, you know what I mean?
Like, so folks always ask you,
like me and Robert this, question
like, what makes you do this thing?
and so I like to ask folks who
produce more content than I do.
What makes you do it?
Mark: Okay.
Yeah, no worries.
Um, I, it is like I, I'm, I'm choosing
my battle, so I, do stick to writing
content and I was thinking like maybe
I should do some videos or maybe
podcasts or whatever, but I am like,
Well just stick to the writing, for now.
So choose your battles.
I do write.
A lot on further agent, a lot on
instance can, but indeed also, a
lot of other subjects, as well.
, but that's also something new,
new comes up with surfs now.
So probably with Vancouver, Washington,
probably Gen ai then, then yeah, I might
look into that and, and then see what
can I find, what is not documented yet?
What's.
New things that I see and whatever,
and let's, just write it down.
, cause I like doing it.
I like to share the information.
when I started with ServiceNow, I was
overwhelmed with how much free content.
There is, uh, compared with what I,
Was used to with my previous, job.
but also for me it's like
creating this content.
Yeah, it's, it's fun, but it also,
learns you a lot because you're
really diving into a subject.
Because you are seeing a lot of new things
because, well, English is not my native
language, so I need to work on that.
I'm writing a ton of stuff, so
how do I bring a message across?
so you're also constantly
working on yourself, so it does.
Cost a lot of time.
It does cost a lot of effort.
That's, that's true.
and yes, I do it for free.
that's true.
But at the same time, I could
also be working for a company and
I've got a mandatory plan that I
need to work on, and I have to do
mandatory courses and whatever.
Yeah.
But now I'm taking
control of what I'm doing.
And I like doing this, so I
decide myself what I'm working on.
the company does not decide that I'm
deciding it, and I'm working on my
hard skills, my soft skills, et cetera.
But I'm deciding what my future plan is.
I'm taking control over it.
And that's, that's, just a huge thing.
Uh, and I also have to admit, like I'm now
10 or 11 months working as a freelancer.
And, now I also see how much it
benefits me, that I'm doing this
and that people know my name and
that I'm, a multi, m p because,
I'm actually not looking for work.
Work is coming to me.
CJ: preach
TheDuke: There you go.
Mark: if I'm doing an interview,
people are not asking me for what
my knowledge level is of ServiceNow.
People are only asking me,
do you fit the company?
Do you fit the culture?
if I'm talking with someone who wants
to know what I know in of ServiceNow,
then I know, well, most likely
I'm talking with the wrong person.
CJ: Amen, bro.
I'm in.
I outta my seat right now.
Mark: So, but those are things
I, didn't really realize that
a year ago or two years ago.
well now I'm actually confronted
with it like this and I'm really
like, whoa, I'm benefiting from
this even more and more and more.
Well, I'm enjoying doing this and
creating content and sharing and whatever.
I just enjoy doing that
a lot and I'm benefiting.
Massively now because of that
TheDuke: It helps when
that connection's made.
Right?
Like it makes all
Mark: yeah,
TheDuke: in the world when you,
when it's like, oh, it does work.
Oh damn.
Mark: yeah, it's just a
plus, plus, plus plus.
It's amazing.
CJ: It's funny you mentioned all of that,
mark, because I've said the same thing
to folks at, Knowledge last week, right?
I don't, I don't interview anymore, right?
it's all about company fest.
Like, okay, we know you
got the skills, right?
Let's, talk about what we're looking
for in terms of how we want the project
to go and how you work, and whether
or not those things are compatible.
and I mean, it's just a, it's just amazing
how many doors this sort of thing opens
for you , once you create a, you know,
a certain level of standing in this
ecosystem, And then, and that standing
is generated through hard work, right?
the creation of this.
This content is, is is a lot of
time, And a lot of work, and a lot
of Expertise that goes into it, man.
But the payoff, right?
Like as you just said, right?
Like the payoff is there.
It's immense, For anybody who's
looking especially if you've got any
kind of entrepreneurial spirit, and
you looking to get out there on your
own, like start with creating content.
You know, start with
helping others, right?
Like, this is such an altruistic thing
for me that has benefited me immensely.
I can't go on and on about that
mark, but this is about you.
Mark: No, but, but it, it's truly
like that and, and completely
like you're mentioning.
So yeah, it's, it's amazing.
TheDuke: We have, just a
couple minutes left, mark.
So why don't you leave any advice
for people coming up in your wake?
Mark: advice.
Oh, oh, man.
there's always so much, to tell
or, when we'll, uh, stop, this show
then, then immediately new things
will pop in, in, into my mind.
But, uh, just the biggest advice would
always be like, know your resources.
I see a lot of people.
Around me.
Uh, and then certainly they're
stuck with on an issue.
Yeah.
And what next?
You can't tell the customer
like, I don't know.
so know your resources.
Who can you reach out to?
what resources are out there?
do you know, uh, the dogs,
do you know the community?
Do you know that there are academies,
uh, life coding, happy hours?
Or are you listening to CJ and
the Duke because you get a lot of
out that as well, uh, inspiring,
fun, uh, et cetera, et cetera.
TheDuke: Pam is Money Corey.
CJ: Check in the mail.
Mark: But, uh, yeah, just
know your resources because.
I don't know everything myself
also, that's impossible.
ServiceNow has grown way too much over
the, over the few years, and it's, it's
developing in an extreme high pace,
so you can't know everything and you
don't need to know everything also,
CJ: Say that one
Mark: your resource.
CJ: Say that again for folks.
Right.
Because I think sometimes folks try to
eat the elephant all at once, right?
Mark: Yeah.
It's, it's just like you can't
know everything and you also
don't need to know everything.
Um, And it's, it's also if you just
don't know a, a certain subject or maybe
you didn't follow it for the last six
months, that doesn't have to be an issue.
There's so much content out there, but
do you know how to find it or, we were
talking earlier this show about chat, G
P t if you type in just a short sentence.
What are you getting out of chat G P T?
Well, hardly anything, but if you can.
Make it a whole story.
Like what are you after that you
can really define what it is you are
searching for and you put that in.
Then chat, G P T will also come out.
with a way stronger result.
And that's the same in
your search with search.
Now you, just need to know the resources.
What are you looking for?
Who can you call or who can
you reach out to, et cetera.
because there's so much out there and
you really don't need to know everything.
you really don't.
yeah.
CJ: Love it.
Mark, this has been an amazing interview.
I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you.
I thoroughly enjoyed chatting
with you in, uh, in Vegas too.
It was great to meet you in person.
thanks so much for coming
out to do the show.
TheDuke: We'll have all the mark
stuff in the, uh, description below.
Mark, thanks again for joining us.
Really appreciate it.
Mark: Well, thank you, uh, as well.
a lot of fun.
a lot of fun doing so.
And, uh, yeah, keep on going.
I mean this is show 86, 87, 88.
I don't know a lot.
And just keep on going
cause it's a lot of fun.
It's a lot of good content,
uh, and inspirational.
Uh, so keep on the good work.
TheDuke: It's 85, but we're not counting
and we still don't have an outro.
See you on the next one, folks.