Let's Talk Local

Sometimes we expect people in certain professions to fit a specific mold… and sometimes, someone comes along and completely shatters it.

On this episode of Let’s Talk Local, Sarah is joined by Dr. Sasha Ortiz, a leading clinical psychologist in DFW whose work spans early autism detection, supporting veterans and first responders, and exploring modern, alternative treatments for depression, PTSD, and other mental health challenges.

Dr. Ortiz also shares thoughtful insight on kids and teens navigating social media, a conversation many parents and caregivers are having daily.

And yes… she also just handed over her crown as Ms. World International.

Sasha is truly one of a kind. Whether you’re a parent, caregiver, or simply someone seeking a deeper understanding of mental health and healing, this conversation is one you won’t want to miss.

Creators and Guests

Host
Sarah Zubiate Bennett
Venture Philanthropist, Host and Executive Producer of Let’s Talk Local, bold leader driving growth in private and social sectors.
Guest
Dr. Sasha Ortiz
Clinical Psychologist

What is Let's Talk Local?

Join host Sarah Zubiate Bennett on Let’s Talk Local as she uncovers the stories, people, and places shaping Dallas, fostering a stronger and more connected community—let's get to know the real Dallas!

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Hi. I'm Sarah Zubiate Bennett and '2 thousand '20 six is already bringing us some incredible conversations here on Let's Talk Local. Today's guest is truly one of a kind. Doctor. Sasha Ortiz is a former Miss World International, a leading clinical psychologist in DFW, a mom and someone I'm lucky to call a friend.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

We cover so much in this episode from early autism awareness and kids on social media to alternative approaches to therapy and I honestly could have talked to her for hours. I think you're gonna love this conversation as much as I did. Don't forget to visit dallasexpress.com to watch every episode of let's talk local and subscribe to our newsletter so you never miss a moment. Sasha, I'm so happy you're here. Thank You for are not having just beautiful, but brilliant.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

A doctor of psychology, right? Doctor. Sasha Ortiz. And being able to sit with you to speak about things that I believe are impacting so many of our lives, the mental health arena is often overwhelming and overloading. I'm glad that we're new friends.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Like I told you it was definitely a God thing that we Yes. And I've just again really enjoyed getting to know you. You have so many parts to you. Would you mind sharing with our viewers and listeners a little bit about who you are, your background and what led you to become a psychologist?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yes, first of all, thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure to connect with like minded women. I don't get to do that very often. I think you know how that goes. Especially ones who's God fearing, who I always say don't mess with my God, my gold or my guns.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I'm like, when I finally meet somebody else, I'm like, they're the same. They're they're a golden girl. I like it.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's what

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I call call So thank you for having me here. I my story is really boring how I became a psychologist. I always say I declared my major at the age of five. I just always knew that it was my calling, literally. I'm Jewish and in the Jewish community, you don't name a baby till they're eight days old.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And so when my mother named me, she said that she looked at me for a week and a day and she looked into me and she named me what she did because my name means womanly wise counselor Mhmm. My entire name. And that's just who I was called to be. So since I was a child, I just always knew that there was a call in my life to help people understand themselves, why they do what they do. And as I grew and evolved and life's path opened up, life kind of added into me like the whys, like why you'll need to know how to help people, why you'll need to learn about you, what you'll need to the tools.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So the education I got was kind of just like the apprenticeship for the the calling I already had. So I'm not bragging at all but it just it's kind of sometimes not a gift because it's like, dang, if I ever wanted to quit this thing, I'm in trouble. I don't have any other education that I've gotten. So it keeps me honest, but it's what I've always wanted to do. And you know, I developed a passion for helping people who are really hurting like veterans and folks with serious mental illnesses as a girl watching my great aunts and uncles.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Know coming from big families, have like all these extended relatives around. And so for me, seeing my great uncle, he was a Vietnam veteran, would be watching TV all day kind of. He lived with my abuelita and watching him sit there and struggle and be watching TV and hear loud sounds and he would always love to watch war shows, of course, but when they would get into the action stuff, he'd hit the floor, he'd start yelling and screaming or exclaiming and I was just a child but I knew like and she just, oh uncle junior's having an episode, we're going to go lay down now, come on back and he'd go off. But I knew I didn't want him to suffer and so I've just always had a heart for people who are suffering or who could be living better because we say pain is inevitable but suffering is optional. So I think my superpower in this world is to help people to suffer a little less.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Beautifully spoken, beautifully stated. It's definitely your calling. It definitely is and I wish people could just get to know all the different parts of you. I mean your son is so well mannered, I so wanted to just scoop him up and I don't know if I told you, my son Lewis wore little glasses like he does And right there's just parts of me that have such a soft spot for kids who wear glasses. He's so well mannered.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

We Thank are very, very big manners people in my home. Which I know you know, we make kids do push ups, they don't say yes no sir, yes ma'am, no ma'am, all the things. If there's running in the house, that's Monty. And the reason I'm bringing up your well mannered boy is because whenever I was complimenting him and thinking, oh my gosh, this reminds me of my own kids, but I know we enforce it so rigidly in our home. You said that your father had actually taught etiquette, is that right?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yes. But then wasn't he also a police Just tell us a little bit about how you think that type of diverse background and infrastructure of your father's possibly made you who you are today. You also competed in pageants. You're an you're an Ivy League gal, you're So that's why I just want you to kind of expand a little bit upon

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

that. Okay. I can, I will? So yes, my dad, and by the way, they don't ever stop being police officers. I know.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yeah. They might retire from the the the force, if you will, but they don't or the department, but they don't ever it doesn't leave them. Yes. My father was a Dallas police officer for thirty years. He patrolled all over Dallas.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I recently learned he did SWAT at one point. I mean, my dad is like, his bodybuilding is his hobby. Wow. So I always knew my dad was like ripped but I was like, you're a

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

SWAT guy?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Those guys are pretty cool. And my son is like, Peebaw I was the SWAT team member because he met some SWAT guys. But, yes, my dad was a police officer my whole life growing up, hence my passion for helping first responders, military veterans, those guys and gals. He was an airman. For a brief interval.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

He ended up with an honorable discharge under circumstances that he probably wants me to keep to himself. So I'll let him tell that story if he gets to. But that air force etiquette mentality is ingrained in him and all of us and the the right there is a right way to behave, right? To speak, to act, to carry yourself, decorum as my father would say, you know, there is a decorum to all things and you will not misrevert this field. So he taught etiquette and etiquette started as soon as you got up in the morning, got up and you what?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

You made your bed.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yep.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

You folded your pj's and put them at the foot of your bed and your footlocker. You washed your face and your your you brushed your teeth and your hair and you showed up at the table present you didn't just roll out in your pj's, right? So there was a law and an order to things and it wasn't always easy but gosh am I grateful because my father's teaching and my dad and I, we're still close to this day. He's my rock in many ways on certain times, you know, when life's lifing but he definitely laid a foundation for how to act and how to be in a way that will take you places. Because he'd tell me even for my little girl, he predicted all this AI stuff by the way.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

He's like, one day you'll live in a world where everything you do is recorded and everything you do is going to come back to you, everything you say, so act like you're being watched. Carry yourself like you're on a camera because one day you will be. And I'm like, I'm not kidding, six and seven years old middle school, I'm like, thank God, there was no cameras at that time. Sometimes I didn't do what dad said. But just a few times, right?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I'm daddy's girl, don't tell him Same, I said Sasha. You know? And so he would just he he it in. So he did he taught etiquette and it's funny because I wound up doing the same. Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Shout outs to the Development and Finishing Institute of New York. Yes. New York's last standing etiquette school.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Oh, wow.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

They are. They they're their last oldest one, I believe. I taught there when I went to Columbia for a little bit. But Wow. I I teach it to my son because everything my dad said was right.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I mean, you know this. You and Monty are running a tight ship as my daddy called it. You have to because these kids have so much out there offering them an alternative. And the reality of it is this is our home and this is our sacred space and we will treat it as such because God has blessed us tremendously with such an amazing life and you have to behave as if you were called. It's kind of how I had it impressed.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So yeah, there was a right and wrong way to be and my dad wasn't messing around. He still isn't. We said yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, ma'am.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

No, ma'am. You did not run-in the house. I never got in trouble for this type of stuff for the record. My sisters did. That wasn't me.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

But Benjamin Isaac did run-in the house and he wasn't supposed to and mister Monty made him do push ups. Sure did. And he did pretty good military ones He because did. We stay on him at home. Like, oh, what did you just do?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Come on.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Like, oh,

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

that didn't count. Oh, do

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

it again. So his form is flawless because Benjamin learns a lot, let's put it Yes. That But he I'm always grateful when people comment on his manners and mannerisms because his father and I and my father and my whole family were very equally very big on manners.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Wonderful. It's beautiful to watch because you and I, and I shared a lot with you about kind of the special needs that run throughout my family. My kids have cousins that all have autism. Then you know we have a kid with Down syndrome. So we have a lot of special needs in our family, and mental health coupled with certain diagnosis that are very prevalent in my own family make walking through parenting and setting examples for these kids sometimes really challenging.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

It's not black or white anymore, especially with respect to social media, which we'll get into. And I know that you've openly shared before that little Benjamin also has a touch of autism. I don't think I would have ever known. I don't think I would have ever known that, which is like kudos to you.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Oh, thank you.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Because all of my family who has a touch of autism, some are much farther along on the spectrum than not. You know, My heart hurts because I think to myself, well maybe we shouldn't be expecting them to do X, Y, Z, especially if there's some couple defiance with the diagnosis of autism. Like the defiance is a big thing and also a lot of the anxiety and even depression. So as a mother and as a psychologist, I know that you have seen, the world has seen an increase in specifically in autism, in autistic diagnoses. I know that the more severe cases have trended upwards.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

But as far as the expansion of the diagnostic manual, do you think that that funnel was broadened so that more people are caught by that diagnosis? Or do you think in truth that people are being diagnosed more with that particular diagnosis?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Great question. I'm going to answer the last one and go in reverse. I actually think it's been narrowed because once upon a time there was something called Asperger's syndrome That's right. And or aspies as it was called amongst the moms, our babies are aspies. And our touch of autism, our level ones as our boys are, they would have been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Here's why it narrowed it because it took a whole demographic of care that your child could have gotten treated for much simply, much more simpler. It took a whole trajectory of treatment for those of us who provide the interventions and it just like that. So I hope I'm not overstepping sociopolitically No. I would this is political. To hear that.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yeah. It's political. So It is? It had to be. It is.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I haven't sat down with my brain, turned on 100 and, like, actually flushed it out yet, which after this I have to now, so let's talk again. Yeah. But I think it's political because somebody somewhere in rooms that I haven't sat in yet are benefiting from there being less avenues of her diagnosis. So look what happens, more people have it and they know they have the symptomatology but they're not necessarily going to get diagnosed as soon or by the time they do because you can get diagnosed as early as 18 to two years. Most moms don't know that.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So I want to put that out there for all my moms. If you even think your baby's blinking weird, don't want the way they sound, don't wait. Yep. That's the difference between level one and beyond. This Intervention is so

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

critical. What because I know that you were on it. The moment that you were like, something's not right with little Benjamin, you were Johnny on the spot. Many moms that I know kind of kick the can down the road, right? Going through that process, And a lot of the mothers that I'm specifically thinking about are more conservatively leaning.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

And I don't know why that is. All of my very liberal friends have no problem going to get their kids observed and looked at. So again, I don't understand it, but I have several and I'm talking like upwards of 20 friends that and I'm talking you know, it's not like two people. I'm talking about a wide spectrum of people that I've observed this with. Why do you think that is?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

A good good catch. Again, I'm only speaking hypothetically what I've observed from my own little life. This is not science. It's not endorsed by anybody or anything other than me, fi me. But that being said, if I had to guess, as you mentioned earlier, I'm I'm I'm just handed over my crown in December as Miss World International, so I'm a pageant gal.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yes.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I was a delegate at RNC, I'm very proud to say I was a Texas State delegate. I remembered the New York Post coming up saying,

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

miss World's a Republican?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And I said, you're darn right. And I'm from Texas too. And they're like, a Texas Republican, miss World. And they interviewed me on the basis of that. I was so proud.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I was like, yes. I texted my pageant director. I was like, she's either gonna kill me or she's gonna kiss me. And so she sent me back heart eyes. I was like, yes.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Oh my gosh. So we're

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

out there and we're we're making impact. Now, here's why I'm saying that. I believe I mean, you're a beautiful lady, you know this. When you show up certain places definitively, confidently speaking about something

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And you look like that and you have that edge to you, people go what? They go Google you. Mhmm. They go look you up. Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And when they Google your name, something comes up. And when something comes up and they start reading about it, they don't necessarily like it. If you think that your medical providers aren't doing this to you, think again. If you think when you take your kids for a well visit, when you seem a certain way that they're not going to go see who you are, think again they are. Sure.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That to your point Yep. To your question, I hope you see where I'm going. I I think that those of us who show up definitively, confidently asking the right questions instead of timidly, oh well I think my child will versus I've noticed this, this and this and I want them tested for A, and C. They're not used to that. They're used to them having all the power.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So when you come in the door empowered, I always say knowledge is power but empowered knowledge is powerful. When I come in the door empowered about the questions I'm asking, the tests I'm requesting for my child and I'm not backing down, they don't like that. Because what is it? Trust me, I'm a doctor. So who are you?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

In my case, when I say I'm Doctor. Andrea Sasha Ortiz, who are you? Yep. This is my son. This baby came from my body with no anesthesia, thank you very much.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Delivered him natural. Big boy. I know him. Yeah. I carried him.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

We were one for almost a year. And when I tell you something with him is off, I need you to test him. They push back and they shouldn't. So you have 20 friends who happen to be conservative because in our community, what do we base our everything on ask questions That's right. Of each other, respectfully, of course.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

But if you're saying something and I'm not vibing with it, I'm going to ask you. Sarah, can you clarify that for me? I don't understand you. Now in certain other communities, they go along and they get along. Right?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

They keep their heads down and their mouth shut because, well, I don't want to well, that's the doctor and they're the authority and they might be and they are. That's not to disrespect their education or their acumen. However, as moms, we have a wisdom and a knowledge and an acumen of our babies. Mhmm. And if we don't advocate for them, who the heck will?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So I believe that when we come in the door, there's a certain energy that we carry. I was at RNC and I felt it. I was like, you can spot a republican from a mile away. Now I know. Like, being in a sea of a

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

million I can't. Really? I don't think so.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I can. Oh, I can't.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Well, no. When I first met you, I literally was like, oh, she's a Latina. And then I like, I I didn't know Really?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That you were no? Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I didn't know but No. There's an invisible thread. There's a there's a magnetism. There's a certain energy with the way people start talking. Guess that's what I mean.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

You know it when you start talking to people, I usually do. And it's it's nuanced. Part of it, I'm a behavioral scientist. My whole superpower in life is observing people's behaviors or mannerisms, listening carefully to what they're saying, the coded language and parsing it out. So for me, maybe that's a little bit simpler for other than for others because that's not part of what you do.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Me, part of my job, here's the other part, I work with veterans. The overwhelming majority of veterans are conservative leaning. Mhmm. You can't really be in that world and not be. Law enforcement conservative.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So because I grew up in openly conservative arenas with parents who have these discussions, family having these discussions, neighbors, friends having them, I think I might have a little bit more sensitivity to certain coded language. So when I'm hearing it, I kind of can know. And it's easy asking people just basic social questions about things, you'll find it out, this being one of them. So the diagnosis piece has become highly politicized and it didn't need to be. I hope I'm not rambling but I'll leave it there.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Interesting. And so what benefits do parents have by getting their kids diagnosed at an earlier age? What type of interventions could really move the needle for them if they kind of

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

took the bull by the horns and walked into the doctor? Early intervention is the difference between I'm trying to no. I don't have to be politically correct. Early intervention is the difference between getting dropping out of school in middle school and winging it for the rest of your life or getting the highest level of education you can. Early intervention is the difference between your child staying at level one probably

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Or progressing down a a a progressing into various stages that they may not have had to go into. Interesting. I say that because we're so blessed in my family. Would you believe me if I told you that in undergrad, I got a research grant and I wound up being in an autism research lab as a freshman in college. Course.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Just by

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

chance. No, it's God.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Nothing but. Yep. I spent the majority of my college education, the first half of it at least explicitly, exclusively doing autism research with teeny tiny babies and children. Researcher was trying to see, she contributed to the body of literature which is our gold standard now. How do we know?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

What are the symptoms? How do we test? How do we evaluate? How do we treat this? So I saw the difference for two years straight Monday through Friday, what it looks like when the mom thinks something in this lab, there was no age limit.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Well, that's not true. I think they had to be over six months old. And we do just little basic little Of course. Tests with these little infant babies up through school aged kids. And what I began to see was a pattern of the moms who were bringing the kids in early who stayed in our program, did our various because the the trade off was if you let us test your child, we'll offer you this support, we'll offer you we have this research lab of these students who are studying ABA therapy, studying to be behavioral interventionists.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

We'll put your child over there in exchange for you letting us observe them. It was a godsend. Seeing those kids who went through that program for two, three years and seeing them evolve day to day, week to week, the proof is in the pudding. So that's the difference between early intervention. Think of it, if you want to be a carpenter when you grow up, if your mother or father starts you learning carpentry when you're five, you're young enough to ease or old enough to safely handle the saw versus the kid who starts at 15.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That's the difference. Which one do you think is gonna have a stronger apprenticeship skill set?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yep, of course.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

The five year

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

old.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So that's the difference.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

And okay, that's an interesting perspective and I really appreciate it because I am one that takes the bull by the horns, and I'm like, let's go in the second we suspect. The second with litany of research completed, I mean document, document, document. Yeah. Write theory, theory, theory. This is what I'm seeing, observing, blah, blah, blah.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Now you help guide me, right? Because I wanted you to speak to that importance because you're a doctor, right? It's different coming from you versus someone like me who does not have a medical license. And so I very much appreciate that. Swinging over to the mental health of kids and parents.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

We all know how damaging social media is.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yes. We

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

know. At what age are you planning on allowing Benjamin to have access to social media?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

50? 110? You sound like Shannon. If I don't have to. Honestly, if if he never wants to, first of I won't be surprised.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Benjamin Isaac is very he's different. I'm the parent who I don't believe in putting children on social media because they don't have the right to give consent and they don't know what they're consenting to. Okay. Maybe they're Okay now. Yeah.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yeah, mommy, put of my birthday party on your Instagram. Sure. Your lifestyle Instagram page for all your friends to see how you designed this lovely party. But and I'm not knocking them. I'm doing it.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Hear you. But where does that end up twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years from now? Like we see what's happening with AI, I won't even go there. But so for me, it would be a discussion one day just like cell phones, electronics, like we're very conservative in our household about access to certain things because mental health is serious. The literature has shown higher exposure to social media, more screen time is equivocated with lower levels of self esteem, higher levels of depression and anxiety.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

These young boys and girls are suffering because mom and dad don't want to, you know, want them to be left out when it's like maybe it was good when they got left out. Yeah. Not from social, course, but from this false image that we created. This is what beauty looks like. This is what intelligence looks like.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

This is what this person's life is like. Compare yourself, compare yourself versus be you. You're amazing, you're wonderful. So for my son, it would be a conversation and he knows mommy's very involved on social media. I talked to him about keeping him safe and not only from what's in the world and we know that's what's out there but also children deserve to have a private life.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

We grew up, we did not have our whole lives posted on like, I didn't you didn't see me on Facebook snaggle tooth at five. I may not want everybody to see me with my like front teeth missing or, you know, my bad hair day when I had chickenpox. Yes. Yes. I have that picture.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I'm thankful to the world that no one has seen that picture. So kids don't have the choice and some parents are just doing that and I don't judge those parents because it's not my place. But for mine, it's not okay because he deals with enough with bullying other things in school now as a child who has neurodivergent presentation. And my job, you know, our roles as mothers is to protect our children and be their best advocates and

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

to

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

be good stewards of their mind, body, and spirit. So for me, I can best do that when I know what he's consuming in terms of his media diet, social media diet, and I have the rule what's good for the goose is for the gander. So mommy doesn't look upon these things. Mommy doesn't obsess and immerse herself in this because they do what we do, not what we say. That's right.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So I think it's healthy, especially for our neurodivergent kids because the media, let's be honest, promotes neuro typicalness. Yeah. That's probably not a right word but No. Yeah. Normalcy.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yeah. And when I have stimming that I do to keep myself, so maybe for me when I'm stressed, I need to hold and rock.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

You don't see people holding and rocking on social media being glorified. You see people getting made fun of.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

You're right.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

You see people getting called names for that and what I don't want is to ever expose our little ones to that. So I think as parents, we have to be like I tell moms like, just think twenty years from now, how's that going to age? Because we don't know how the condition evolves. Every child's different, right?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's So

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Benjamin at 18 is not Benjamin now at going on seven. So I don't want to put pictures of his little face and likeness everywhere

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

in Yes. The

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

one day he's like, mommy, why? Like, I didn't like my haircut in that picture or I, you know, maybe he was hand flapping or maybe he was covering his ears and you know, we've seen celebrity children, right, who their children are clearly neurodivergent. We've all seen it and you can tell that they're shielding them from the media because they don't get photographed often.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's right.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And they'll say, oh, well they're hiding that baby and it's like they are, they're protected.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yeah, and it's their right to. They shouldn't. That's wonderful perspective, wonderful perspective. What about, and again it's going to be pretty much the same answer for you and how you parent. Sure.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

But as far as parents who are considering parent run, parent led accounts for their kids. Again, I get that it's the same theory, right? The kid does not have a fully formed frontal lobe, they cannot consent, right, to that material that will eventually be available for consumption when they do. So does your same theory apply to that? Do you think that parents should, again I don't have parent run accounts, but I have many friends that do for their kids.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

And so, I wondered if you had any different perspective as it relates to the parent run parent managed accounts who let's say do have typically developing kids, not neurodivergent in any capacity, but if their kids are typical, as typical as you can be, right? I'm neurodivergent, okay. But what are your thoughts pertaining to that?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I can empathize still because that's how you know what's out there for them or not. That's how you know what they do and don't do. I as a provider, the stories I've heard from some of my parents of kids of all all versions on the spectrum, stuff that their kids are getting messaged privately about is it's why I'm like, Vincent will be 50 to a 100 before he gets an account and I might still be sneaking in to see. And if I'm a helicopter mom for that, well, listen to the blades roar because I mean, like, what I won't have is one day my son asking me why I didn't protect him. I don't really care what the world says about me hovering because one of them might make him a little awkward and make me look annoying but the other one you can undo.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So I'm for it because only you as a parent know best when your child is mature enough for you to let the reins go. We're both horse people. So you know when you're out training a horse to do something, you know when you need to keep those reins tight up under the bit versus I can give you a little more leeway versus I can we can trot together, I can run alongside of you and you will follow me and that's what parenting is, not the kids or horses, okay, just in case Sure.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Sure. People will know.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That's my goal is to kind of get guide him along the way and to see, okay, you're ready for that now. Mhmm. Like like hunting's a perfect example.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

This kid is 10 and he has no business being out there on the hunt. He's going to be goofing off, yelling, screaming, kicking, scaring off all the game like we're not going to make any good good catches today versus this kid's going to get quiet and listen, eyes forward, be right there present. It's the same attitude. Only you as the parent, as the guide know when that kid's ready.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Got you. Okay, I like that. Because I know that the practice of psychology has a lot more gray than other medical areas. Which is why I think it's interesting that the primary body of psychologists do trend more liberal. That's just fact.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

And I understand why. I absolutely get it because so many Actually no, many of my friends struggle with judging. But many, like it's just a condition of the human, To just judge. But I do find that there is a level of acceptance of the way that people live their life in psychology that is helpful, right, to the spectrum of people who need to be treated. And so when I found your political leaning and your profession, I was like this is crazy.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I mean it's crazy. Like you're a minority, you're Ivy League gal, you pageant gal, Jewish, conservative, none of it makes sense, which is But you know it's just all of these people that I've known from these independent bodies, and I'm a Latina as well, so it's like it didn't make sense to me. So I think it's interesting because I'm sure that many people out there do not take their kids, let's say, right, to doctors for certain diagnoses because they're not trusting of the diagnosis that they or their child may be given for one reason or another. So do you find that your political leaning helps diversify your practice at all? It may not, It may not.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

But do you find that it does?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I love this question. I love you for asking it. Absolutely. The personal is political. I didn't make that statement up.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

It is though because if 92% to give you some numbers to attach to your statement of psychologists identify as liberal. 92. 92%. 92 out of 100 psychologists identify as liberal. Got it.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I think it's me, Jordan Peterson and what six other people. I'm looking for him. We can find him, let's have a small party. We have no quorum but hey, can we sit around and talk to each other about how it But yes, and you know how it happened that way is having all those inter as we call them intersectional identities in this world that the world sees as, that doesn't go together, that doesn't go together, that doesn't go together. It's like, well, does for me.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And I always joke and say, I'm an actually an alien from Ziborc, I do come in peace. That's how it all Oh my gosh. But I mean, look at when you grow up with a dad who's a Dallas police officer Sure. You're gonna be conservative. Yep.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And when you grow up in a Judeo Christian North Texas community, you're gonna be Jewish or Christian or Judeo Christian. Mhmm. With a dad who's a cop, you're gonna be conservative. Mhmm. And the mental health piece, when you see Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

First responders and you see what it's like when your dad comes home and someone died in front of him today or his partner was killed in front of him or you stay up all night wondering, my daddy gonna come home in the morning?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I know.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I didn't even realize until recently that I had my own stuff about that until my partner and I, we've been together for forever, got into this argument and I got really emotional. He's like, what is this? Why do you do that? Like, it's just an argument. I'll be back.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And I was like, I just started bawling. I'm like, why did I cry like that? I'm like, oh, that's some trauma. So that's what informs that conservatism that I take to the therapy room is because so many of us are worried about being judged that we bottle it, we let it prop us up and make us, that's what makes me good at what I do, that anxiety or that that, that edge I have with that very thing that's my thumb screw And it's my job when I'm sitting across from some very high level special forces guys and gals or some very highly ranked military officers to look through that veneer of stability, of strength, of courage, of wisdom to see there's a crack there. And as a Jewish person, we have a saying when you the cracks in your soul are how God's light shine through you.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

But me as a clinician, a psychologist, psychology is not the study of the brain or behavior, it's the study of the soul. So my job as a clinician is to see into your soul, I hope that doesn't sound crazy to some people, but it's to see into a person's soul for an hour and to help them see, Hey, there's a darkness there and that's Okay but let's explore that because you can't be out there on the front lines like that. Mhmm. That's what gets you tagged and bagged as they call it. You can't be out there in this world first responding when you're having a panic attack.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yeah. That's how people end up getting killed, That's how casualties occur.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's right.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And in the day to day world, our teachers, our educators, our moms, our dads, our homemakers, our fathers, these men and women out here supporting families, they're walking around carrying trauma that they don't want to let go of and unload because it's too personal. So for me, the conservative in me is the one that can hold this space that says, my liberal counterparts, no disrespect to them. When you come in and you express like, oh, I've had this issue or that issue or I'm identifying as this sexual orientation or I have this issue. You have them for that. That's great.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

But there's a whole demographic of professionals, of people who have a very much more traditional perspective they have to take daily and no one's listening to them and they don't go to therapy because they're scared that our liberal, my liberal brothers and sisters, my liberal colleagues are going to, Oh, you're into guns? Oh, you're violent. That's what better Oh.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yes. You don't get to be

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

a two way person in therapy.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

My gosh. I didn't even think of I

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

didn't What? Consider You don't believe in vaccine? No. You have oh, paranoid. Are you serious?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

You believe you endorse this political view? Yes. Is what psychologists sit around talking about and doing. So it is essential that people like me, me and the Jordan Peterson's, we're unicorns out here, literally because so many of our colleagues and it is a part of the training. I do understand it.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I do have my own views that might be considered liberal in ways professionally, but it begins and ends there because the person sitting in front of me dictates the litmus by which I'm evaluating, not my political views in that room. Oh, what's today? Thursday? My Thursday crew as I call them every the folks I see on Thursdays are overwhelmingly liberal, like ultra left leaning. Yeah.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And I love them.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

They challenge me. They make me think outside the box. I I hear their side of it and I learn from them. I hope just as much as they learn from me. I probably learn more from them than they learn from me.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

But it's that need because they're not struggling with anyone to hold space for them to be able to vent about how they feel about our current sociopolitical climate. Yeah. It's those of us for the last four years who had nowhere to We were getting shadow banned on social media and couldn't talk about it in therapy. Were out here promoting certain values that were considered dangerous or hateful or bigoted. You get what I'm saying?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. It happened to my husband and I'm and it drives me crazy. It drives me crazy because people make him out to be one way and I'm like,

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

oh my

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

gosh, you just totally misunderstand him. Right. Or don't even take the time to, or maybe they don't have the opportunity, it's fine. But I appreciate that perspective so much Sasha. Again, it's the minority.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

You are a huge minority.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I am. And I'm a six footer in a world of five feathers.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Or five threeers. But it's fine, I have like these platforms Oh my I knew that I was sitting with the

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

thing. Place? The shoe Oh game stop.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

And so, back over to the time when I was in The Meadows. I was there for forty days. I don't know if I've told I did tell

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

you that, I thought. I didn't know your tenure, that's amazing.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Forty days in The Meadows and I was treated for workaholism, was treated for love avoidance and primarily trauma, that's what took me there. But interesting that you say this. The answer is yes. To I mean the statement is yes to the fact that people radically judged my husband because of the way he votes, because it's very public. And it's interesting because I remember constantly, at least my perception, and I'm pretty sure it's reality, was that I constantly had to explain why and how he was actually a really good person.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Right. Because I was like, no no no no no, because there was this element of you should not have to deal with this, this, this. And I'm like, but I'm not. Like if you hear what I'm saying, yes. Is he vocal?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Is he opinionated? Hell I am too, even more so. Right? I am a pill. And so it was this almost like they wanted me to say the, oh I am the victim, I am a poor woman in this, No, but I refused.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I was like, mm-mm, mm-mm. There's no part of this woman today or any day who is that, right? And so one time, the only time I walked out of any type of seminar was whenever they were sitting down to explain the genesis of the whole pronoun space. And I said, listen. I said, I respect all people.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

If someone asks me to call them a they, I will say they if that makes them feel better. But I don't need to sit here and understand why because it makes zero sense to me. I have taken weeks trying to understand this. I can't. I cannot understand it.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

So I'm sorry. I'm just opting not to be here. Mhmm. And I will always, again, respect someone that wants to be referred to in a certain way. Absolutely, I just, I cannot understand it.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I'm not going to sit here for fifty minutes of my day where I'm supposed to be receiving therapy and help when I could be off working on all of the work that I need to do for a presentation. So I received a lot of pushback for that decision because I stepped out of that. And I had to meet with a good percentage of the team. It took twenty minutes,

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

so I

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

still benefited with more time on my side to go work on the curriculum that I needed to present. But it's interesting that that was included as part of my rehabilitation. Because I was like this has nothing to do with why I'm here, so I could go. And I've never told that story before ever because it wasn't relevant, there was no point to. But at 92% I can understand.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I can understand why that was mandated. Mandated coursework for someone staying at the Meadows, I get it. Now that I'm out and I've gone through so much healing, so in the physical, in the spiritualsupernatural, the healing has been immense. And I've recently started, believe it or not, my 12 step program for Workaholics Anonymous. And that was my primary takedown, that was my primary issue in treatment.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

But because I needed to make sure that my marriage was successful, and thank God it's successful, I really had to attack my love avoidance part first. But the workaholism is now coupled with TMS therapy and treatment because I don't struggle with depression, thank goodness, because many people in my life do. But I've always been tightly wound. So I struggle with some anxiety, but it is the intensity in which I lead my life, which prevents me from sleeping. So insomnia.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

But I'm praying that I show a measurable difference for the first time in my life, Sasha. I've had PMDD before since I've been little. The first time in my life this might be TMI, but clearly I don't care. This month when Aunt Flo came to visit, I had no idea.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Oh wow.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

No idea. I was like, oh my gosh, Aunt Flo's here to visit and I had no warning. I had no emotional volatility. I had no panic. I had no tearfulness because I'm a very emotional woman and I love that part of myself.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I think it's what makes me good at many things, the intensity of that. But it's working. It's working. Have you made that recommendation to many of your patients? Can you tell me what you know about TMS in terms of the people that it treats and any type of feedback that you have relating First to

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

of all, kudos to you. Thanks. It's always amazing to optimize. That's actually, there's a name that the Titas and Abuelisas call it as lunar optimization. So to optimize as a woman Yeah.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

To finally get in touch with with the flow of ant flows. Yes. I tell women, you don't have to suffer. It's a beautiful time actually. So I'm always glad when I meet women who have found that.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Some of us got to grow up with it and some of us did not. So it's it's a mixed bag. So that to say, yes, TMS to educate your listeners and viewers. TMS is an acronym for transcranial magnetic stimulation. It is not getting your brain zapped as some people call it.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

They're not getting electroshock therapy. People hear this and they're like, so you're getting ECT. You're getting electroshock therapy. I saw that on a movie and it's like, no. No.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

There's not a tinfoil hat and all that. It's not what's going on. Uh-huh. So TMS, Terry Martin Steve. TMS is a therapy by which a person is it was highly utilized at the place that I completed my residency.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Shout out to Cohen Veteran Network in Addison. Well, moved from Addison to Dallas now. Yes, ninety percent of my patients there were getting TMS in conjunction with psychotherapy from me. They may have been getting psychiatric medications prescribed at the same time. Some of them were doing other more holistic measures, which I know we can talk more about like ketamine assisted therapy.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yes. Thank

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

you. Yes, absolutely. Or psychedelic psychotherapy. But TMS is a game changer because what it does is it takes all the traditional psychotherapy, psychotropic medication therapy that people are very much aware of and used to in mainstream culture and it takes it up a notch because TMS sort of, I would say, think of it as if you break a glass on the floor, oops, and it shatters everywhere. We all have that where two weeks later you're like, oh, there's another piece of glass.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

TMS takes that shattered glass and it waves a glass magnet over and it it grabs all the pieces back together. Now it doesn't put your glass back together so it's drinkable, but now you've absolutely in one fell swoop or not one, but over the course of time you're collecting those shards little by little by little so you're not walking on broken glass day to day. Now that's useful to someone who struggled their whole life because they will tell me that they're waking up for the first time in life without a headache. They're waking up for the first time in life having had a good night's sleep or they're for the first time in life able to manage their stressors that used to be a 10 out of 10 of a wallop that packed every day to it's a three now. What used to obliterate me emotionally now just annoys me mildly.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That's what TMS will do. It doesn't work for everyone. Every person is different, but it's absolutely been clinically indicated in the literature for people with PTSD, post traumatic stress disorder, people with depressive disorders, people with GAD, generalized anxiety disorder, and specifically of the panic variety. So when you talk about that intensity, you talk about the anxiety, your own background with some trauma stuff in it. Whether you experienced it psychologically as trauma or not, the body, as you learned at Meadows, the body keeps the score as Doctor.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Vanderhoef. Oh, yes. So absolutely wonderful And it's a phenomenal theory, it's true. Our body is a living, breathing organism. What if I told you your body remembers its birth?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And if your mom had a tough one. Yep. If you were a breech baby for instance and you suddenly grow up and you wonder when you go get a CT scan or MRI for the first time and they put you in the machine and you flip out and you panic, you know what I tell people? What was your birth like? And they're like, what does it have to do with me having a panic attack when I had to get put in that thing?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And I'm like, I bet you your mom had a difficult birth. When's the last time you were in

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

a small space

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

and it was hard to get out of it? That's claustrophobia right there waiting to happen. What are the odds that you do you even ever thought of that when you by the time you wind up needing a scan? Little to none. Yep.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That's the difference. TMS would lower symptoms of things that you don't even know you're carrying around. So that's how powerful it is because how many therapy sessions would it take for me to discover that you've had that versus how many TMS sessions would it take for us to not even have to talk about for you to just that weird hovering anxiety I've been carrying is just true or false?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

True. And you want to know, it's really sad actually that I forgot this event even happened. Monty and I were on the ranch, we were on this very wooded part of the ranch. And in my parents marriage there was significant It was very, very chaotic abuse, all this stuff. And we were driving through this new wooded part of the property and I told him, Mani I'm starting to really panic right now.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

All this brush around me is making me You have to understand, I don't have panic attacks. I don't. But I said I need to get into the back seat right now. I went to the back seat, I flipped up kind of the middle seat, and I kind of got myself into a ball and I was crying. Crying as he was taking us through this really wooded part, oh my gosh even thinking about it right now it makes me emotional strangely because no rhyme or reason, but I mean I couldn't stop crying.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

And he just after we got into the open space, he just kind of like a child, kind of picked me up in his arms and just held me as I wept and it was my case management team, whom I love, from the Meadows, They told me, You must try this. Sarah, there is a lot from your life that you still need healing from, that you still need healing from. And it surfaces at rare moments, but it will continue to surface.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

What you're describing is a perfect example of it. I call it my Jack in the Box theory. Like when you carry trauma, and I tell people it's always when you don't need it to. It's always when you're at that holiday dinner or you're walking through the mall or you hear that song or you smell that baked apple pie somewhere and you have that panic attack for the first time that's a trauma episode actually, that's what you had. And you're like, what the heck?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Why? Was I was doing great. Life's great. I have this wonderful everything. I'm here.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I'm loved. I'm supported. Why am I I feel this way.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

What's It was wrong with out of the blue.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And it's it's buried trauma. What if I told you there's something about how you're bumping along on the terrain, when your body's doing stuff like this, so when's that? When you're on a boat, when you're on a horse Yeah. When you're on certain machinery, when you're doing this, your brain is lateralizing, little do you know it.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yep. That's

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And out of nowhere, well, because it's EMDR based.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yep.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That's all EMDR is.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's correct.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That left, right movement, it's why equine therapy is so useful. Yep. It's why even walking and talking as you guys do

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

at And you the have to purpose purposefully move your eyes.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That's right. Walking and talking, looking, talking about what's going your brain is basically, it's like think of it if I have some inflammation and suddenly it calms, that knot in the shoulder can kind of be massaged out a little more easily because it's So you're inadvertently, your brain was processing some stuff. When you were out there in that calming terrain of your woods and your property Yep. You were in a safe place so the body's like, Okay now, like let it go, kick it out of there. Like dump it.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And so now you're in fetal position like what the heck? I know. And it's a good thing though. Of course it does not feel good.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

It does not

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

feel good. It makes you feel emotional, think about it, but it's a good thing because it means that you're finally safe. Your body physically, your mind, body, spirit aligned just in that moment to say, it's safe, let it go. And that's why your team said, hey, start the TMS, start doing this because that broken glass, they're like, okay, we're ready to start. Cause some people are not ready.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yeah. That's why else and that's part of why it's so expensive because if you have not had certain levels of psychotherapy, you don't need to do TMS. Yep. Let me put that out there. TMS does not wipe your memory.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

People think Eternal Sunshine is just a movie, y'all Like, doesn't wipe your memory, it doesn't erase your your thoughts, it doesn't take away bad experiences. Mhmm. What it does is it lessens the magnitude of how you experientially feel them in your body and how your mind can process and digest them like a meal your body eats. Yep. So TMS is great after you've had extensive therapy for some folks that needs to be combined with medication.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So it's still technically expensive no matter what because you've got to invest in that good, good luck, therapeutic relationship because you need to still be going to therapy, psychotherapy, talk therapy while you're doing it because stuff's going to be coming up for you week to week. Stuff that you never remembered that you remembered.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Exactly.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Or that you forgot. Things you didn't even know like were a thing. I had one client, for instance, they started TMS and finally were able to discover why they can't go to restaurants. They just, they couldn't realize why until one day they were like, oh, there's something about all the noise and the clanking on plates. Yes, People dropping forks and babies crying and screaming.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And I said, where does that put you back when you hear that? And they were able to take their mind back to it after they'd been under a round of TMS. And then they were really heavily processing at that time, but it was only because it became safe.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's so beautiful. It's so beautiful because I know I've shared with you and I also want to touch on ketamine. It's so beautiful because in my future life, I believe I'm called in some way, shape or form to help people, women specifically, who've endured a ton of trauma through a host of methods. And today in my prayers this morning, I was thanking God so much for all of my pain, all of my struggle, even my hip and back pain right now, I was just thanking Him for it because I was like, I believe this is all gonna be for something. And just like all the crazy trauma in my life, I'm so grateful for it now because I sit in a much healthier space, a place of honesty, integrity and health, especially mentally and spiritually.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Oh my God, I never knew this sort of freedom was available to me ever. But someone very dear to me and close to me used ketamine therapy for a huge breakthrough. Would you mind telling our viewers and listeners about what that entails?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yes. So ketamine assisted psychotherapy is sort of a multi pronged, it's integrative mental health approach. Ketamine is only legally administered by an anesthesiologist or a medical professional, a medical doctor. And basically, you are in a very controlled setting where you're safe, you're sound. Again, not recommended if you haven't gone through some pretty

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's right.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Extensive therapy. You want to do it before, during and after. But let's say you've done the therapy work, you're there. Ketamine is basically a psychedelic substance that is administered in a very itsy bitsy teensy tiny dose. There's various ways.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Some people have a nasal spray that they can use, some people, receive a shot with an IV system, and some people, I believe, can get like a subcutaneous. It's up to your doctor how they administer it. But the whole point is what it'll do is it will put a person in a very relaxed state whereby they will and they may some doctors do it where they will have the psychiatrist, psychologist or mental health professional right there with you to process some stuff. I've done that technique. Yep.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

It's advanced, it's for folks who have, like yourself, who've done a lot of work Significant work. Significantly. A couple of my folks I've done that with and they just start kind of processing and it's what's coming up for you right now? What are you seeing? What are you thinking about?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

What are you feeling? And kind of letting them more as we call it free association whereby you're just kind of talking about whatever is coming up. We're not having a coherent linear conversation, it's stream of consciousness. So you may, oh, you know, I'm thinking about how I drove to work today and oh, yeah, I saw this this, you know, person. I I gave them some change or, oh, I saw, you know, I had get gas and you just kind of run and your brain will just, like, kind of you let an animal you you have animals, you know, you let them out in the pasture, they'll roam.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

You let your mind roam and we'll see where we see where it end up. And the professional myself is sitting there kind of mentally coding for themes. What's coming up? What's coming up? After five or six of these sessions, usually a person will come up through their forest moment that I'll call like yours where they're like, woah, what's that?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And it's like, okay, stay there. What is that for you? My job is to take you deeper into that. What did you see? What did you hear?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

What did you feel? What's happening with your body? Now, some people process while they're under the influence of the ketamine. Some people don't need to, don't want to. Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Anyway, over time, if you do enough of these sessions, what we notice is heavy trauma with a capital t trauma. Mhmm. Little t trauma

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Little t's

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Dallas traffic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Your team lost the Super Bowl, that's little t trauma. Yeah.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Big t trauma is when life's lifing, know, assaults, witnessing abuse, certain life events, right? When people can get into that stuff, five, six sessions and we're starting to see them have a trauma response in the opposite direction to where they'll feel it that one time intensely and then next time as we're talking about it, it's like, wow, that happened. So I had veterans who had survived extreme, extreme combat related trauma. Mhmm. Able to go from shaking, crying, can't speak at all, can't emote, can't feel their feelings to six sessions later, they can smile again, they can laugh again for the first They time in can talk about what happened without like it may have been before I need to leave you thirty minutes to just sit here while we decompress from that session.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I'm fine. I'm good. See you next week. It's so powerful. Again, it's kind of like TMS.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

It is not inexpensive. It is pricey. Some insurances cover it though, some don't. Wow. It's more innovative and you do need a very astute, well versed medical team to do it.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Interesting. Have you heard of any of course you've heard. I know the Ayahuasca retreats and there's an additional one in Canada that a friend, a couple friend of mine recently started going for. And it's not Ayahuasca, but they do take some type of hallucinogen. Is it Evogene?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Possibly.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Probably.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Either way, that's been pretty transformative for them as well. Do you have any insights on the hallucinogenic space as it relates to mental health?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Sure. There's a movement that's very well respected that came out of Harvard University actually called MAPS. An acronym that I currently don't recall all the letters stand for. MAPS has two p's, I can tell you that. M a p p s, Martin, Andrew, Peter, Paul, Steve.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And MAPS basically is a sort of international. They've got a lot of folks coming out of Canada doing the research and trickling down throughout The United States. And it was founded by Doctor. Stanley Groff who came out of Harvard University. I had the good fortune of studying under Doctor.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Groff for a little bit of time at the beginning of my doctoral studies. And one of the things I learned from observing, I got to be a sitter, so observing people under the influence of various psychedelic substances who were at any stage of trauma therapy treatment. And yes, you saw breakthroughs happening. It is not illegal in Canada. It's not illegal in Mexico.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

There's certain military related spaces where it's also legalized. So that's the setting I was in with these people. I have no opinion one way or the other, what people do to go heal or how they go do it. I have to say that for my own purposes in The US. But that being said, when done correctly, when done with the right team, I'm seeing breakthroughs happening.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I have a lot of veterans who've gone up to Canada to do the EvoGain and to Mexico and South America to do the Ayahuasca vision questing and whatnot. And they're having game changing growth. I mean, like I said, people who have extensive these special ops guys. Yep. Who have extensive, they call them multiple tours they've had to do, right?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

At different conflicts they've been a part of who because I did a lot with wives and kids at Cohen Network, having their wives call me up crying finally for a good reason. Yeah. Like he slept through the night for the first time in ten years. Oh my god. He hasn't yelled at the kids in three months.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Wow. He's being affectionate and, you know, we're having intimacy again. Yes. We're not fighting about it or we're not I'm not scared of my husband anymore. Yeah.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

My husband isn't afraid of me anymore. Yeah. My husband isn't afraid of intimacy anymore. These things, you know, and so that's what's the plus side of it is people are getting themselves back. They're I call it coming home to themselves.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yep. They're coming back like, oh, there I am. And you're not 90 having the full circle moment. Yep. You're today old having it.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yep. Yeah, this is remarkable. I have one question for you and again, I don't know much about how Jewish practicing persons view the introduction of any of these type of newer alternatives. But I know specifically as a Catholic Christian lady, I work extra hard not ever to be out of control. Right?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I I if I have a glass of wine, if I have a cocktail, have one. Like I I'm very just moderate in terms of consumption of any mind altering items. And so and specifically because I've gained insights into the spiritual slash supernatural space that have totally transformed my understanding of it. I'll make it real short. This woman who I worked with, recommendation of my brother-in-law, Monty's identical twin went to Cornell together and he went into Christian ministry.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Started Christian Union at all the Ivies, it's prolific, it's exceptional. Now he works in the deliverance space. And he introduced me to this woman who I mean radically transformed my healing journey by way of like serious deliverance. And she is just enough to scare the living daylights out of me, To be like, okay, God, I am never taking half seriously again. I used to.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Was I mean, oh my goodness, I was a mess in many ways. I am terrified of doing anything that could possibly open me up to any type of evil entering. I'm not sure what your beliefs are relating to trauma, opening people up to evil. I mean significant evil, especially in the bloodline, how curses kind of fall through the bloodline and how oftentimes without that type of healing, someone is never able to experience, I guess, the healing that is available to them, which I'll get to just on a personal note. But I share all of this to say that elements of this whole process and practice that I've seen and witnessed firsthand have scared me enough to not want to venture into mind altering spaces, except what you're explaining.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Again, I've never done the ketamine treatments, I've never done any of that, but I can see and believe what you're saying relating to the healing aspect of it. Is there any part of you that is concerned on that spiritual side?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

If misused, yes. Mean people have absolutely historically, some people have historically misused ketamine. Sure. Yes. Something

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

You can abuse. Yes.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That that can be abused. Yes. I mean, I'm not let's be honest. The the dosage that is used for ketamine assisted psychotherapy, KAP Mhmm. Keith, Andrew, Paul, KAP therapy is very minute and and and I'm not well versed with the numbers off the top of my head, so I won't try.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

But let's just say it's like one tenth of what people use in therapeutically. People who are out here doing stuff on the streets are doing 10 to 20 times more than that. So Got you. It would take a mega dose of something like that for you to end up in this territory where you are now. And I firmly believe that the again, psychology is the study of the soul.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Mhmm. We all have a mind, body, and a spirit. And the things that you eat, the things you drink, the things you watch, the things you listen to

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's right.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

The orifices of your body, all of them head to toe are portals to your soul which is located right here in your pineal gland on your third eye as people call it. That's right. And if you don't think that what you're eating and drinking and listening to and smelling and hearing and tasting and touching and taking in on purpose or not is not impacting that element, that essence of you that is eternal Yep. Think again. That's all I'll say about that in my own way.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Now, that being said, I practice from that lens. I am a firm believer that y'all, the biggest control, the biggest greatest power you have biomedically is choice. Yep. Sit down and interview the people who are going to be laying their hands on you. Yep.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Whether it be to give you a facial, facial, do your hair That's right. Your nails, whatever. Talk to people. Don't let anybody touch your body, your mind, your heart, your spirit, your soul, that are your babies without knowing what's what are you about? What's your philosophy?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Who are you? Go look them up. And I love what you said earlier, your husband, you having to defend him for the way he votes.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I did. I know. Isn't that crazy?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yes and no. That to say, y'all stop being so focused on how some of us vote Yeah. And focus more on our philosophy about how we're going to treat you and maybe how I vote might actually give you an idea of how I'm going to treat you or not. Now, my case it does. It says, I'm going to treat you to the best of my ability from that perspective of a of a godly Judeo Christian Christian woman who wants to see you thrive or as they say on for us other folks, I want you to go forth and prosper.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Mhmm. Like I want you to really be okay whether you you get that support and healing from with me working alongside of you or not. So yes, don't just go get KAP from any old Do your homework. I mean, Google sometimes is your friend. Look on that's when you use social media.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Go see who's this person? What's their philosophy? Ask them these questions. I've had a couple of clients who saw and they were like, know, I saw that you're a Republican. I don't ever want to talk to you again.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And I said, wow, it's so interesting that you're saying, we've been working together for nine months.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

What took you so

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

long? Yep. Are you saying

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

that I'm sorry.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Don't be. I'm grateful and I thanked them and I said, I'm so glad that I got to show you that you could in fact grow even when it comes to talking to an evil Republican. I'm glad that I could inform you, I'm just kidding y'all, that there's healing to be had in any place that you go and you open your heart. And you felt safe enough with me to do that and how I vote has not a darn thing to do with me helping you come home to yourself. But I release you with all the love in my heart and I wish you nothing but the best of everything.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

So when you go to a provider, go to someone that's going to treat you like that whether it's the first session or the last, whether you end up not working with them or not, whether you have a philosophical parting of ways Mhmm. That's how you'll know. Now, should some people not do KAP? I don't think so. Some people do not need to do it.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Is it people with histories of addiction per se? Maybe. Is it someone who's never in their life had a drink of anything? Maybe. It just depends and that's why I as a practitioner Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Interview people. Just like I want you to interview I want to interview you. I want to know what's your background. Now don't go to someone who just says, oh, yeah, fill out these forms, sign this consent, and come on back. Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Y'all, four, four, don't do that. Don't go to those people, right? Sit and get to know the person's theoretic orientation. Sit and ask them what their therapeutic intervention of choice is going to be with you. If it's an anesthesiologist, do you work with a clinical psychologist in particular?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

What's their orientation? Where can I find out more about them? Then go look it up. Talk to these people before you let them lay their hands on you. Then main three is my number.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Go talk to three different interview some folks. Of those three, if you feel like, oh yes, that's the one, then that's how you'll know because you're correct. Generational curses, I am am a woman of faith and I also have a sprinkle, some people call it superstition, some people call it religion added. We've both seen it, we both know. Generational curses are for real.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

They are real.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Here's how it plays out psychologically for those who don't believe and it's scientific by now. If your grandmother is pregnant with your mother, with a girl, there are currently three generations of eggs in her body at that time that your mother had her your grandmother had your mother in her womb. So you now are born. Whether you ever get to meet her or not, you're carrying around the abuse, the trauma, the day to day that your grandmother had, whether you ever lay eyes on her or not, whether you ever hear her voice or not. And it may, oh, we don't have cancer, we don't have diabetes, we don't have heart failure.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Right. But you wonder why you have this weird anxiety, why do you have this weird depression that pops up now and then. That's a version of a generational curse. Now, follow this amazing rabbi. He is such a profound spiritual leader of people of all backgrounds and he recently said something that just thumped me in the head lovingly.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I like those head thumps. He said, if you don't deal with your your mommy and daddy issues, you'll deal with it when when you get married to your husband or wife. That's right. It'll play out.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's right.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

You you deal with the the stuff your daddy did to you, you'll your husband will help you deal with it. That's right. Woah. And he said, if you don't deal with it with your husband, you'll deal with it with your son or daughter. And if you don't deal with it with your son or daughter, they'll deal with their husband or wife.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That's You decide. Are you going to keep passing that generational baton like a race? Mhmm. Or are going to say, I'm going to finish it. I'm going to run through the line.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

You've chosen to finish it. Some people can use ketamine, some people can use TMS, some people can use psychotherapy, some people just go to church, some people just pray, some people go out in nature and commune with the trees and the animals and and the things God gave us. But however you choose to do it, it's essential that you do. Period.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

So Absolutely. Don't go

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

to providers who haven't.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. And one thing that I want to kind of part with is your take on the divisiveness of today's world.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

It's crippling. I grew up on the border of Juarez and El Paso, and so it's I am from a staunch Democratic family.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I was

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

probably one of the most quote liberal people that you ever could have dreamt of, me. But my family is still like, and I talk to them every day. This is my family, my flesh and blood, and I love them. The politics don't even affect us and it shouldn't, and I'm so grateful it doesn't. However, up to the recent years, it was never affected.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Someone very dear to me wrote on their social page, all Trump voters should die. I'm related to her. And thankfully, right, I was able to say, and then I saw another one that said, all Trump voters are evil, and then another one. So these are separate members of my family, biological and then in my adopted family. And I read the post and I thought I'm just leaving it right there.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I'm not taking that on. I know that these people love me and I'm choosing to not invite hate into my heart and giving them grace because I know I've been giving grace constantly and it's okay, it's okay. They don't have to like who I voted for because they know my heart. They know my heart, they know me as a person, as a human. And because of that, we love each other.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

But I know many people who would have read the same posts and been like, I'm blocking them, I'm not, right? Like they kind of respond in this retaliatory space, and this And I get that it's probably because I pray every freaking day, like not to judge, God fill me with grace, fill me with forgiveness, help open my eyes, give me discernment, right? Could I be wrong about all that I view in this world? Absolutely. And I'm humble enough to believe that intrinsically.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I know that that's not the case for most people. Like there is sickening divisiveness that was spoken about, well I know in our holy book, the Bible of Revelation, right? And it was written, there's gonna be an increase in knowledge in the final days. Boom. Okay.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Like, that wasn't just happenstance. It's happening. Mhmm. And the mass confusion. So I face this all from kind of a spiritual space.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

How what can you say to people who are not leaning into the spirituality of life, but who are still really struggling from feeling attacked, not heard, all of that. What words can you leave them with as a psychologist, as a provider in the mental health space?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

It's like, no big deal. Here's a really loaded heavy dog. No big deal. Wow, that's a phenomenal question and it's the best one today because we all know we don't benefit from we don't benefit from division. The the things that we have, people are like those Venn diagrams.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Mhmm. Humans are. Yep. You got this side, you got this side, and you got this little lemon shaped part in the middle where we all overlap. Every human you meet, you could be a twin.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Your husband's a twin. My mom's a twin, so I love twins.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I've had twins. Yes. Right,

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

right. What am I saying? You're a twin mom. Yes. So you know, you have two humans that came in at the same time just about who might look identical, but they have, they still have that only that lemon shaped part in the middle that's And the I tell folks all the time, it's those differences that are so enriching if you let it be.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I love being disagreed with. Me too. I love it. Me too. You know what I mean?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Like Yes. How boring would life be if Yes. I mean, I hope we never end up in the true 1984 world

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

where everyone has to yes,

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

ma'am each other because That's right. Because we wouldn't be voting. And we were kind of there in ways, Yeah.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

You know

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

what I mean? Yeah. But being disagreed with keeps you human. It keeps you smart. Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I love when I find out I'm wrong. Yep. That's how I learn something.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And in fact, I was telling my boyfriend last night, I he's like, where are you? You're always somewhere. I was at this, I'm part of this private equity group in Fort Worth that I do once a month and I'm the dumbest person in the room. I am, but I sit on the front row on purpose and they're like, hi, who are you? And I'm like, hi, I'm Doctor.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Sasha Ortiz. And they're like, oh, what do you do? Are you an economist? I'm like, no, I'm a clinical psychologist. And they always go, oh, well, are you an investor?

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And I'm like, not yet. I'm just I'm here to feel dumb. And they're like, what the heck? But that's what I mean. Go somewhere often as you can to just be a fly on the wall that you where you know nothing.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yep. I know nothing, Jon Snow. Like, I don't want to know this. I want to be confused in in a good way, but that's my sort of my answer. Get with people who challenge you just enough to grow but who accept your ineptitude at what they're teaching you enough to give you grace.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Mhmm. I think that keeps you rounded and interesting and and honest because as soon as you get to drinking your own Kool Aid, you're you know what's gonna happen. God's gonna come down and humble you real quick.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's right.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

You're gonna fall down on your little face and be getting up fixing it, but it's it's painful. Like I talked about that person who was like, nope. You're you're a Republican. You're out. I don't want you here anymore.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I'm like Ugh. I know. It's hard. I mean,

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I I can't say too much about who they were, but I I just said a prayer for him and was like, God bless you. It's fine. Mhmm. I don't need you to agree with me.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

That's

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

right. That's the truest liberation in the world. I don't need to be agreed with. Yep. Cause I feel that confidently about I am the broken clock that's right twice a

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

day. Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

That's all I need to be is right twice a day. The rest of that those minutes and hours, I'm okay considering I might be getting this totally wrong. And if I stay here long enough, God will send somebody along my path to say, hey lady, you're going the wrong way. And I'm not bristling at that. I think it's those of us who are deeply entrenched in our egos with a capital e

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yeah.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Who can't let go of that self that's really not us. That's what else I was listening to my rabbi last night. Who which was a rabbi that you follow? Yeah. He's called Rav, r a v, that's a short name for rabbi.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Mhmm. It's complicated Doniel, d o n I e l, Katz, k He a t runs a a worldwide traveling I would say his his his movement is not it's Jewish but it's not Jewish. It's it's people say, oh, it's very Christian sounding. It is but it isn't. His message is universal love in the sense of humans know thyself, step away from your ego Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Break up with this fake sense of who you think you are. Because he said it last time in his message I was hearing, you're not your body, you're not your job, you're not your addiction, you're not your orientation, you're not that that image you have of yourself, whatever. You are something so much deeper and it's it's that that fixation on what I am that makes me fight with with who I am not when I get around you. Yep. Cause I tell people in psychology, a good therapist will hold up a mirror to you.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

My job is to hold up a mirror the whole time you're talking to me and say, see yourself. Yep. Hear yourself. Yep. Listen, listen truly to yourself.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Okay, see you next week. And me, I like to ask tough questions too. You're good. You have a background in therapy. You have a future in therapy.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I can't wait for you to do your your women's healing movement. Gonna know so many women. You already are. But ask yourself tough questions and the people who disagree with you, that's really why God's putting them in your life is to get you to question. Because as a Jewish person, I'm in I very much have a strong value.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

My boyfriend is a staunch Methodist and I it because Yeah. It's funny every time he'll say, oh, well, I know you're Jewish. So I said, don't do that to me. Excuse me, sir. I've read the Christian holy bible six times in its entirety.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Many Christians haven't. Most of

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

them haven't. I know. I'm like, hey, don't do that to me. And I will. God uses me regularly to say, mister mister Scott, come here.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Let me tell you something about the Bible says the word says this. And you know what it also tells us to be salt and light unto the earth. That's And that's and light is about go where in the world you think you don't belong and talk to people who don't think anything like you. Yep. So my closing remark is Jesus's 12 disciples were a bunch of thugs, thieves, pimps, prostitutes, swindlers and shysters.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yep. Okay?

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yep.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

And he loved them very much not because they were pious and holy and good and pure, he loved them because they were not. Yep. They had the most to teach the person that they met. Who what do you learn from the person who might favor me? Who does Exactly.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Perfect. He's great. Exactly. Like nothing Yep. Other than what I'm not ever gonna be, like, dang.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

I'm gonna just sit over here and be be bad away from you. But the person who can say, yeah, I've been there. I've lived like that. I got the t shirt, and I had a a rock band named after it. Like, I was doing that.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yeah. And I'm not anymore. And I'm not saying it that to judge you. I'm saying it that, hey, try this instead. Mhmm.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Come hang with us. We we did used to do that, but we found a better way. Yeah. There's a high that you've never had available to you and it's in the form of dying to self. Yep.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Let that ego every time someone questions you, oh, wait, why did I feel that way? Oh, okay. Maybe I need to look into that. Now you have children.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

It's beautiful.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

If you have children, that that's who's teaching you. And they'll because they'll ask you this Lord. Mommy, how come you? And it's like, okay, Lord, I hear you. I need to work on that.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Alright. You know, mission accepted. So all that to say, think that if we accept our differences, if we look at the next person that comes up to you and challenges you, if you're willing to lean into that, embrace it even if it's internal, you'll learn something.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

Yep. If you keep

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

learning long enough, when you get to wherever you're going next, I think you'll be better. So we're having what is it? The the spiritual experience on the human plane here. Yep. Some of us know this.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yep. And we're a little further along than the other ones and those of us who are, we just gotta give them grace too and and love them anyway. But I love what you said, like don't don't respond to that stuff. I don't either because Yeah. It's like how I vote has nothing to do with how I feel about you.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Yeah. I pray with my feet Yep. And I vote with my dollars. Mhmm. So Yes.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Oh, goodness gracious.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

We covered a lot of ground today. We did. But it was profound. I cannot thank you enough for being here, I hope to have you back. Oh please, I would Yeah, love so look forward to spending more time with you, away from the mics and all the things.

Dr. Sasha Ortiz:

Same, all of it.

Sarah Zubiate Bennett:

I am very grateful you're in my life. Thank you, Sasha. Thank you, Sarah. You.