Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Screaming in the Cloud with Corey Quinn features conversations with domain experts in the world of Cloud Computing. Topics discussed include AWS, GCP, Azure, Oracle Cloud, and the "why" behind how businesses are coming to think about the Cloud.
For what we're doing and who we wanna talk to, like open source is actually a
value add for them to be able to see what's happening and like what controls
and like what policies they could set before they even get to the conversation.
Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud.
I'm Corey Quinn.
I am joined today by CEO of Paper Compute Brian
Douglas or B Dougie as the kids today call him.
Thank you for joining me.
I appreciate it.
Yeah.
Uh, glad to be here.
This episode is sponsored in part by my day job Duck.
Bill, do you have a horrifying AWS bill?
That can mean a lot of things.
Predicting what it's going to be, determining what it
should be, negotiating your next long-term contract with
AWS, or just figuring out why it increasingly resembles of.
Phone number, but nobody seems to quite know why that is.
To learn more, visit duck bill hq.com.
Remember, you can't duck the duck bill.
Bill, which my CEO reliably informs me is absolutely not our slogan.
So I have to say that the, my discovery of what
you do was a, is a tail rife with disappointment.
I was so excited for a brief instant that when I heard paper compute, oh wow.
It's an e ink company and I finally will have
something other than a Kindle that uses the technology.
But no, it's an AI thing instead.
Yeah.
Uh, sorry to rug pull you on that one.
It was a quick one though.
Uh, yeah.
Paper compute.
Yeah.
We were doing, uh, distributed systems for
agents, well, infrastructure for agents.
So we've been at it for about two months at this point and been quite the ride.
Obviously, AI is moving pretty quick.
I am hesitant to say too much about the current state of AI because between
the time we record this and the time we publish this, which is not that long,
there will doubtless be a bunch of things that come out that made me look.
Foolish, but when you say infrastructure for AI agents, what does that mean?
Yeah, so it's, we started with two different open source projects.
One is telemetry, so traces, if you think about O Hotel, we started
this back in January and at the time O Hotel did not work with LLMs.
I, it works, but it was a, it was kind of hamfisted.
No, that's just hotel.
That's basically its entire tagline.
It works, but it's kind of hamfisted.
It's right on their
website.
Oh, oh, fair enough.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, not from my mouth, but they have been sitting around and like doing their
sort of weekly meetings and they're gonna like, have better structure for this.
But what we wanna do is like telemetry for agents in
particular, and that is the first project, open source, HEPL.
The other one is stereos, which is the play
you the, the place that you play tapes.
And the idea is having a agent runtime.
So it's a VM built on Nix Os, and that's kind of the TLDR.
I could go into like way more detail on the why and
how, but I, I realize we also only only have 30 minutes.
Well, I do wanna dive into this a little bit because when
you say telemetry for ai, that usually means a few things.
There's the metadata around it.
What was the duration of the call?
An application was this tied into what was the provider?
And notably the one I like, what were the tokens?
But then you can also get into it what was the actual
conversation, and that's where I start to feel a little bit hunted.
Which side of that divide do you come down on?
Yeah, so we're doing a bit more of the telemetry where
you have like the tokens and the, the time duration.
We do have the prompt stored from the agent and from the human.
So like the agent does have a bit of the,
with the thinking we'll have like, hey.
Brian asked this thing, and I'm looking at this thing and I
remember this folder here, uh, which is always fun to look at.
I think a lot of that gets squashed in Quad Code and Codex now, but back in,
back in my day last summer, uh, agents would spit that out when it was thinking
it, it's also dangerous on some level
because it it because this has been the case.
20 some odd years where if I wanna make one of the smartest
people I know look like one of the dumbest people on the
planet, all you have to do is just do a read back of things.
They have typed into search engines, like things that, even things that I
know off the top of my head, but I wanna validate like what does S3 cost?
Yeah, I do know that off the top of my head, but every once
in a while I like to make sure that it hasn't changed on me.
And also I have brain farts, which tends to happen as we age.
And yeah, let's just make that work.
The idea now of, oh, something's watching me and actually.
Seeing the dumb question I'm asking the robot.
That's scary.
I'm gonna have to make sure that, uh, I grease some palms.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like the way it works today, so we're, we're still open
source first and only right now, and it works SQL light.
It basically writes to your, your home directory.
Hmm.
Oh, so it's local telemetry.
Yeah, so it is local, local first, and that's what we have today.
By the time this comes out, we will have a cloud product, we'll
will be multiplayer, uh, where if you choose, you can send your tape
sessions to the cloud for your, your coworkers to also comment on.
You are funded by Heavybit, as am I, and so is Atin, uh, Ellie Huxtable.
And that, that's always been an interesting problem too.
It's, oh, you can take your Shell history
and share that to your colleagues as well.
It's like, oh God, can I pay you extra to not do that?
Like, even now if I've run at two Unwrapped, which is the,
their whole summary thing on this, where it tells me that.
Or the number of unique commands.
Yeah.
My commands failed 23.1% of the time, which as someone who spent 25
years in the Linux admin space, that that's kind of a high number.
Yeah.
It's, it's high number, but I imagine it's
more like golf where, nah, I have no idea.
But I feel like with like, 'cause I'm, I'm a pretty heavy Vim user, so
like I'm definitely hitting like leader key and like hammering like a
bunch of stuff that doesn't exist because it's just all muscle memory.
I'm a big fan of.
Like seeing the data and like you can interpret
the data in whatever good and bad it is.
Uh, so like I'm not a big fan of like, oh, well
90% of other companies are, are failing only 40%.
Like, your company's failing and now you don't,
you're never gonna make it to unicorn status.
Like, I, I think that's a, yeah, it's a bit of a myth, but I,
I think I could see what a competitive nature and leaderboards
would come in there, which a big fan of that too, as well.
Yeah, which I highly recommend not looking at the AT two and wrapped summary.
For example, in 2025, apparently I typed 17 and half thousand commands.
1700 of them were cd, which is my number one.
Number two is NPM Run, and the third is ls, which is just, hmm.
Alright.
Alright.
Yeah.
Where am I and what else is here with me is
sort of the thing that I'm always wondering.
Yeah.
LS is de, that's definitely top three for me for sure.
I don't think I actually, I have no idea.
Uh, I don't run Atune actively right now, so I just wiped the
Mach Miss machine, so I'm still catching up with all the stuff.
It's pretty great.
So one thing I find interesting is folks who do a painful thing
and get hurt and decide, you know what, let's do that again.
This is of course a terrible segue into the reality.
You are a second time founder.
Tell me about that.
Why would you do this again?
Yeah, so I'll mention my first time founder project, which is
Opens sauce pizza, which now pizza is actually not working anymore.
Dot com is the only way you can see it, unfortunately.
But we built insights in the GitHub repos, so
I'm, I'm just a big fan of looking at data.
I gotta see in statistics in college.
So for whatever reason, it's been a chip on my shoulder
to build more stats and the developer products.
But yeah, so built that, sold it to Lennox Foundation.
It worked out pretty well for us.
I thought I was never gonna do it again because I felt like
I got like a, a sort of boulder lifted off my shoulder.
I went and worked at another company and then immediately saw in the AI space,
infrastructure was just like not even a thing we were thinking about in 25.
So now in 2026, we're like, oh.
Maybe computers should like be more agentic friendly and like,
we should probably lock these things down and like, they'll
give it access to your Gmail or like, time out the, the runners.
So all those questions that I had around like building stuff
in the AI space, it had to be answered with some software.
And like in December when I had the ideas, none of it was built.
Now it feels like everyone's building it right now.
It, it's almost like if you go back in time.
And there's folks of us in a certain generational era where we struggled
mightily with the advent of the internet and social media in some
ways that kids today don't because they grew up knowing that they're
at a fishbowl and everything they do is going to be discoverable.
It feels like.
I have been using my computer in such a way that I assumed
I would be the only person using it, and that AI would not
come along and start trying to pick up the pieces behind me.
And if you give me a wiped machine, and now this is my new computer, and from
day one, the expectation is is that the AI is gonna be looking over my shoulder
and using any of the email that I interact with and the browser and the rest.
I can use it more effectively in ways that aren't
potentially disastrous when a robot gets confused.
Yeah, we're in like a weird world, like about a year and a half ago.
Everyone had like these pendants that you'd like record
conversations with, or you have like the MetaFrame glasses that
you just like recording TikTok videos all nonstop, all the time.
Now we're in a space where like now our shell history is
being recorded, or now our prompts are being recorded.
Now we're basically being judged on how many tokens we're leveraging,
or if we're not spending enough or we're spending too much or
we're doing side work on our main machine and all this other stuff.
Like it is very, very interesting in this
current state of the world we are in today.
And I know like the world's gonna change in like three weeks.
So like today, like.
I, I think we don't know what we don't know yet.
And I think what's interesting in this space is like I, I want to
build something that we can at least understand like what we're
sort of passing through and like what tokens we're leveraging.
I think I've been actually super hyper fixated on
is Quad Code has a Max Max subscription for $200.
I easily will spend $4,000 in tokens every week.
So, Mike, I, I get that in Q4.
They're probably not IPO.
So at least I should start tracking to see how much
I'm spending so I can sort of brace for impact.
Uh, but what I found out also in the last couple weeks is
prompt caching and quad code is saving 93% of those tokens.
So, uh, this is basically all the stuff we're building.
We'll have, we'll have this, um, actually you can see this in the tape stack.
If you record your tape sessions, tape system product, the, the open
source projects tape sessions, tape deck is the command line interface.
You could see a dashboard to see your tokens.
Uh, and what's cool about that is you could see the
prompt caching and you could kind of brace for that.
But then.
Just last weekend they shipped this thing called Fast Mode,
where you can get faster l um, inference, uh, but you'll
just pay extra money on top of your Max Max subscription.
It's pretty wild.
Like
yeah, people did some experimentation with it and said the results
were not materially different and it was expensive at the top of it.
So I, I get it.
If you're production is down, we really need to figure this out.
Okay.
Turn on the, hit the turbo button on the old tower, but.
It's a strange thing.
Uh, there's also a psychology part of this where we
saw back in the day when cell phone companies would
offer fixed amounts of data instead of unlimited plans.
A number of folks, I'm one of them, would wind up going for the
unlimited plan every time just because I don't want the mental overhead.
I still find myself thinking like that when things that are charged
on a usage basis, even though the actual amount of money is.
Irrelevant.
It, we've, we've raised millions of dollars.
Terrific.
I don't necessarily need to hyper optimize
around $4 and 68 cents worth of tokens every day.
Maybe that's not the biggest bang for buck of what I should be
focusing on right now, but I don't know how to turn that off.
I, I guess for, for us, I, I could speak for myself, for us who don't
come from money, like sometimes you've gotta hold onto money longer.
I was also an at t like unlimited plan for years
with the iPhone until eventually it scro like.
Up until, actually I was on T-Mobile up until last summer and I had
like this grandfathered like $80 a month plan for the entire family.
So
if they were to keep first trying to beg you into
changing and then trick you into changing over the years,
that was the thing is like when you go through the BART
tunnel, you get no fast internet, you get nothing basically.
And it's because you were on the lower tier plan.
That they can't give you like high throughput.
It's a crowded network in the bar tu tunnel.
And that's the point you really feel.
It is like at the moment you're sitting at GitHub issue
and then GitHub like this freezes on you on your phone.
So I'm like, oh, I guess I'll pay the $225 a month to
like get up my modern plan so that way I can like actually
send a GitHub issue on my, uh, in the BART tunnel.
For the five, 10 minutes that I'm in there.
Yeah, I, I wound up adding Google Fi as a secondary,
uh, sim for a while and then switched over to using it
full time, just 'cause it was half the price of Verizon.
It seems to work reasonably well, but it's still the, it's
unlimited, but they'll slow you down after a hundred gigs
and I think on my busiest month I wound up using 20 of it.
So it's, it's fine.
I feel that way about the Claude Max plans as well, where I have
hit session limits before when I've been working on something.
But I'm not one of those folks that winds up waking up in the
middle of the night to prompt the fleet of agents to do things.
It's when I'm sitting at my desk and working on something.
I'll make the robot go build something.
Okay, fine.
It's not, I'm not the heavy user and in fact, I
could probably cut my plan further than I have.
I'd like not having to think about it.
And I'll be sad when that goes away.
Yeah, and And it likely will go away.
I think they're kind of like preparing us for this moment.
I imagine we still get this unlimited plan, but it's
not gonna be 200 bucks, it might be 2000 a month.
And I think that's the point where we're all like the haves and have nots.
We're probably.
Showing themselves up.
Yeah, I've been playing a lot with a lot of local models as well to see how far
I could take those, which, yeah, there's a lot of stuff you could do to like,
and almost a prompt router where great, go ahead and, uh, do
this basically complicated find, replace in this entire code base
that can be done with a slower local model, whereas architect the
whole system, maybe I want one of the frontier models to do that.
Yeah, and I've seen a lot of tools that, uh, outside of like the, the agent
harnesses that have approached that problem but haven't done it very well.
Uh, I think Open Router has a, a bit of a feature around
this as well if you just go straight, open router proxy.
But yeah, something I'll be experimenting with a ton.
Yeah.
Exciting times.
And I think you're addressing the right part of the problem, which
is first I, I don't know what cloud code is doing under the hood.
I have no idea what the usage looks like.
I know sometimes it's genius.
Other times it feels like it's not that, and I wonder
how that's playing out under the hood or what's going on.
I just know that I need to be careful enough around this when
I'm having it do things that if this is gonna make a mark,
maybe make sure that that test coverage is where I think it is.
This episode is sponsored by my own company, duck Bill.
Having trouble with your AWS bill, perhaps
it's time to renegotiate a contract with them.
Maybe you're just wondering how to predict
what's going on in the wide world of AWS.
Well, that's where Duck Bill comes in to help.
Remember, you can't duck the duck bill.
Bill, which I am reliably informed by my
business partner is absolutely not our motto.
To learn more, visit doc bill hq.com.
Yeah, and the one thing I'll mention as well, so I mentioned
tapes in like the telemetry part, but stereos is the
vm, so the actual computer, like essentially it's N os.
You could run it on your Mac Os, you could
run analytics currently not Windows yet.
So we just need more people to care about Windows and we'll focus on it.
So open the issue please.
That's what I keep telling people.
Open the issue and then we'll track it.
But the idea there is like the same way Quad Code does sub subagents,
it's great because it takes that token usage onto its own channel.
So you don't get that sort of.
Now it's a million tokens context for like a session.
Previously it was like 250, but what I'm getting at is like, it will take
that session off to its own session, uh, and then come back with a hash.
So like with tapes, we're using a Merkel dag, just like get, you could
take a session, you could hash it, you could search it based on the hash.
So you can do lookups, you could generate skills, but then you can also have
separate sessions within subagents, and that's what we're doing with stereos.
So stereos is more likely something you use on your own metal.
Um, there's a lot of these like sandboxes and
computers that people are leveraging in the cloud.
Our bet is that you probably wanna build your own cloud or your own enterprise
that wants to do this, and that's what stereos comes in in the question.
Yeah.
What I've been doing is there are risks to it and I'm aware of that, but I
have a dedicated AWS account called Superfund because it is expensive and toxic
and it has no access to any data in it or so I thought, and then I just run
an EC2 instance there that is, and run Claude and dangerous permissions mode.
It has full root access to the box.
Go ahead.
All all you're gonna blow up is my bill.
Then one day I realized it had access to read
things off of my calendar, which was not expected.
It turns out that at some point in the last few months, Claude's
skills and connections were now tied to your Anthropic account, not
to your actual, uh, not, not to just the machine you installed them
on, which is great most of the time and terrible in this one use case.
So first thing I did is slap the control into the settings
json to make sure it doesn't do that anymore, just for.
Data isolation reasons, but yeah, that is
not something most people are going to do.
They're not going to build a box that does this.
Claude Code gets very greedy with the Rams.
So this is a couple hundred month bucks a month for the EC2
instance to sit there running, uh, four or five of these things and.
There needs to be a better solution.
I'd love to have something like that on the laptop, since
I'm mostly around when I want this stuff doing things.
Yeah.
I, I wrote it on a, on a, I wrote it actually on this machine I'm talking to
you on, just as of last weekend I did open claw on A box is a, uh, a repo.
I put together just to like, if you wanna spin up this
and you wanna have like constraints and you wanna have
like network shut down on certain interactions, so.
The use case I use is on Sundays.
I go through my email, it labels a bunch of stuff
for me, and it only, it times out at two hours.
So if it can't get it done in two hours, then it's
probably just, it's, it's too long or I need less email.
So like, I can figure that out.
I'll go call the government and tell 'em to sit, stop
setting up email or whatever the, uh, I'm thinking of the
Seinfeld, uh, when, when, uh, Kramer said, no more mail.
Not sure if that's possible yet.
Yeah, I have a, uh, in the next room I have a Kubernete
singular running on a cluster of 10 raspberry pies.
And one of the things that runs on there is Billy the Platypus,
who's now my virtual ea, where he'll wind up receiving the
email writing a barely professional sarcastic response.
And now with an additional fun feature, he'll go out to a data enrichment,
API figure out what you look like, and then integrate a cartoon of him
dunking on you in some way into the insulting response, which is just.
Amazing.
It is terrific.
People are trying to sell me things or be obnoxious in email in various ways.
I feel a little sorry for some of the, uh, entry level,
uh, business development types and SDRs who are reaching
out, trying to sell me something that doesn't make sense.
But other times it's, this stuff is so scattershot and
send to the entire world where I like to buy land in Napa.
No, no.
Thank you for asking.
I would not, so yeah.
Have the insulting POTUS smack back.
I love that, but there is risk to this if
it starts tying into all the other stuff.
I mean, the scary thing that I need to defend against and why there's a
human in the loop is it can now schedule things for me, which is great,
but it'll casually look at my calendar and then say, oh, he can't.
Then he's meeting with insert company here.
It's ah, how about no.
That maybe that's, maybe it's fine.
Always having another meeting to yell at AWS.
Yeah, that's a real rarity.
But maybe I'm meeting with a confidential client.
Maybe that's not something that needs to be disclosed in an email.
My challenge is like, I just started paying $20
a month for chat GBT, which gives it memory.
I think you have to enable it.
I did enable it 'cause I was building a, a, a computer, uh, with A GPU in it.
I was like, oh, I'm gonna just like prep the chat GBT to
like, know everything I know about my computer and then like.
Recommend, like, well not Ram at this point, but like, uh,
this was actually last year before RAM was, yeah, good luck.
Money
bags.
Yeah.
But, uh, I was just like looking for different parts and like
seeing if what would work or what, but then like randomly I'll
ask a question about like something like actual work related
and be like, oh yeah, why don't you run on your GPU machine?
They're like, what do you mean?
Oh, the machine you built last year.
It's like, I, well, completely outta context.
Not as bad as your, your sort of confidential.
Call, but like it feels like, it's like, oh, remember
that one like thing you built for your daughter?
It's like, dude, stop.
Not the time of the place.
Read the room.
Yeah.
That's part of the problem that all these agent things have.
Like there are different personas that I take on when I talk to folks when
I'm in a board meeting versus when I am pitching to a customer, when versus
when I'm writing a sarcastic newsletter versus when I am being a parent,
versus when I'm shit posting on the thing known, formerly known as Twitter.
I act very differently, and if you cross
those streams, it doesn't go super well.
Like there's a time and a place for all of this.
Like I, I do a mean conference talk and I do some great standup jokes.
Maybe don't do that when I'm putting together
a wedding ceremony or something like that.
There's a time and a place, and that's something that gets lost sometimes.
Yeah, but it's great for a LinkedIn post.
I think it, it, it could be at the LinkedIn, whatever.
I dunno what that, that vibe LinkedIn has on posting, but, uh, I know
Claude has a good, does a good job of, uh, self a referent and posting.
Oh, absolutely.
And the problem is, is you can't even say that.
That's not what LinkedIn is designed for.
You.
You go to LinkedIn now and it interrupts you when you're writing stuff.
Hey, you wanna rewrite that with ai, it's, what are you?
I think this network is for Exactly.
And then I read some of the insipid stuff on there
and you wanna hope it's ai, but you're kind of scared.
It's not,
well, I guess we'll, we'll figure it out.
Someone's gonna have to ship a this.
Is this ai not true or false.
So I am curious what would possess you, there might be a less confrontational
way to phrase that, but we're going with possess you to start a company
where effectively everything you're putting out so far is open source.
That feels like it has some definite advantages to it,
but it's also the sort of thing that can be fraught.
Like I come from GitHub, I come from open source.
I, I learn how to code because of open source.
So like, it's in, in my ethos, but specifically for what we're building with
tapes and stereos, like I feel like the telemetry parts, it's table stakes.
If you ask any sort of YC company or any sort of
VC of like, Hey, we're doing telemetry for agents.
Like, cool, so we're a hundred other companies, and then
now we thought we were ahead of the game when it came
to like the VM and like building the actual runtime.
But then, uh, like a bazillion other companies
came out and said, we have a runtime too.
Like, Deno has a runtime.
Deno is doing something completely different
for what we're doing and who we wanna talk to.
Like open source is actually a value add for them to be able to see what's
happening and like what controls and like what policies they can set.
Before they even get to the conversation.
I spent a lot of time in my first startup where we spent way more
time trying to convince people and having long conversations.
Today we're just like, Hey, use tape stereos if that
kind of fits within the thing that works for you.
Then we have this cloud, or we have this self-hosted on-prem
thing that works one and the same, like not one and the same,
but obviously one's gonna cost more and be more complicated.
But we feel like open source is a lot easier for people to try
before they buy without setting up a 14 day trial or whatever.
What about the current zeitgeist impression that folks are giving off
where this is the, the bad days of SaaS where companies are gonna start
vibe coding SaaS solutions instead of paying, uh, third parties for it?
Yeah, I think that's the same thing of like, I can write a bunch of c plus
plus code, but also I can't because I've never written c plus plus code.
So yes, I can vibe it, but also I don't know
what bad, like unsafe c plus plus code is.
Uh, so when it comes to like SaaS products, like you could probably
build the thing I built like a. Look at my LinkedIn connections
and give me like a list of companies that I can like go reach out
to and hang out with a bunch of friends and show 'em my new thing.
Like I don't wanna pay LinkedIn premium or sales thing
for 12 KA month when I can just like vibe code a thing.
But there will be a point where I bring on a sales person who
I don't want to like use my vibe code a thing and I wanna share
information properly in like a Salesforce manner or HubSpot manner.
Like there's a place where you kind of grow up
into, like, again, I, I don't want a 14 day trial.
I know what I'm doing.
I'm just like running through the, the system and plugging and playing.
And then on the, the vein of like open source, like
I feel like open source is table stakes as well.
Like where you can close source it and like
keep your, keep everything close to chess.
But also I think what we need is like more people building infrastructure.
So like if anybody clones our repo and like says,
I'm gonna kickstart from this and let's get started.
Maybe we're protected with A GPL.
Maybe we're not.
But at the end of the day, it's like what we need is this stuff
to be out in the system and out in the, um, infrastructure.
And hopefully we're the ones that build it, but
like someone else builds it, then obviously we'll,
we at least not going in the right direction.
Yeah.
Like I've built a bunch of internal SaaS tooling that's,
uh, scratches, certain itches I have that I'm not willing
to pay, uh, professional to get up and running for me.
But when we're building Skyway over at Duck Bill
that it's not, it's not hard software in that.
It is effectively a data platform that manipulates data and normalizes it.
Yeah, we, we know how to do that.
We are not pushing the bounds of computer
science here, but the data must be correct.
It's not the sort of thing that you can vibe,
code, and expect good things to fall out of.
Lord knows we've done experiments around that.
Now you can come out with something that sounds very good.
Looks good at first glance until you start digging into it.
But if you're making sincere business decisions based on that data, and
it turns out that data's wrong, uh, no one wants to be in that position.
It's the same reason that Anthropic vibe codes a lot
of stuff, but they pay, I think it's a DP for payroll.
They, they're not just paying for the software that arranges the paychecks.
They're, they're basically paying for expertise.
You don't want your super base table to be
completely open and like read and write.
Well, obviously the, the thing that happened in the last week is delve like.
Everything was accessible and I imagine a lot of the stuff was
just kind of shoot from the hip and a certain point you kind of
wanna bring in the experts to come clean up and polish the stuff.
Naively, I thought compliance was one of those
spaces where you wanted to have expertise in shows.
What?
I know, that's why I've never been on the 30, under 30,
40 under 40.
Perhaps
not even anymore.
I have to be 50 under 50 at some point where I think we just call that folks.
So what's, what's next?
You mentioned you're doing a cloud offering.
Probably by the time that this winds up shipping, I mean
that will presumably address my biggest problem with your
website right now, which is it doesn't have a pricing page.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we will have a pricing page hopefully in the next two weeks.
Uh, we're fastly approaching that.
We have the infrastructure that works.
Uh, we're sort of pending a. UI on top of it.
So next is basically you have tapes, you have sessions, you have agents.
You wanna play those in a multiplayer fashion.
So like you and your team could all look at your weird prompts and all the
tokens you're using, uh, and then you sort of like dictate what what is next.
So something actually very cool I've been working on is like
taking your prompts and then training a model with that.
So if you wanna like.
Do you like some fine tuning off down the road for your local models?
How heavy a lift is it to do something like that?
Because I've toyed with the idea, but every experiment I come up with is like,
step one, you're gonna need about $10,000 worth of GPU time, which, okay,
if you know anybody, Nvidia, some friends that
will, well give you some, some rental space.
But yeah, if you have data, data's one of the hardest parts to get for training.
I, uh, particularly have not done it myself.
I've been in the room when this is happening at my last role at continue.
So I have a good idea of how this works.
But then folks like Unsought, they can help you do the fine tuning part.
Uh, so like there's, there's a bunch of like.
Prosumer, like ification, ways to go about it, but also quad's
my friend as well, so I might just like chat with, with them
and, uh, build out a six week pipeline to, to make this work.
I'm still trying to figure out why, when I prompt for
certain things versus my teammates prompt for certain things.
I get such vastly different results in terms of tone, sarcasm,
the way it builds things, and I, I have no answer for that.
It seems like a telemetry play might be the right answer here.
Yeah, I think it's, it's got your taste down to, uh,
let's, let's get the first thing out to Corey and then.
Co-founder gets the better, the better taste.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Mike is the one that winds up doing all the serious button down stuff.
Like we can make this talk to Microsoft Excel and I'm sitting over
here going, we can make it rank the US Presidents by absorbency.
And it's, it's one of those things where it, some point between the two of
us, we're gonna reach a happy medium where it's both whimsical and useful.
We're not there today.
The litmus stuff I have right now is WW JD, which is what would John do?
And I ask that question every time I go write in one of his
projects, which is like, I don't write a lot of Go code.
I'd like professionally.
I've done some go code, but really not to the level that John has.
So what I wanna do is take John's sessions to help inform.
My prompt sessions.
Uh, so I've been generating skills from his sessions and so far going well
shared team skill of Corey Quinn voice.
I need to go in and sabotage soon if some of it gets uncomfortably close.
And that's my space in the universe.
Thank you very much.
Amazing.
So I wanna thank you for taking the time to speak with me.
If, if people wanna learn more, where's the best place for them to go?
Uh, best place to go is uh, I have a site called be dougie.dev.
That's my, this catchall, well I guess they would call it win trees
back in the day, but LinkedIn, I'm happy to like take a DM there.
No promises on response and then X at BW and then blue sky at pizza.
Pizza because I wasn't taking that platform
seriously and I just picked the random BRL.
Yeah, I am having some challenges myself with the answer of where do I direct
people to for all of these things that I, that I have going on, and every time
it feels like I wind up narrowing it down by collapsing two projects into one.
Three more spring off.
I don't know that there's ever a way to get away from it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Five man Minecraft.
There we go.
Uh, it's similar to, someone showed me a SSO page screenshot once,
and it showed all the different services you could use to log into it.
And like they had GitHub, they had LinkedIn,
they had Google, and they had the Lego website.
Apparently, which acts as an identity provider, which is just absurd to me.
I want to have that as a enterprise class SSO login, just to see the reaction.
The, the Lego Envoy proxy would be amazing.
Like, let's, let's get that to work.
Thanks again for taking the time to speak with me.
I appreciate it.
Yeah.
Have a good one.
Brian Douglas.
CEO at Paper Compute.
I'm Cloud economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming In the Cloud.
If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five
star review on your podcast platform of choice.
Whereas if you hated this podcast, please leave a five star review on
your podcast platform of choice along with an angry, insulting comment.
Be sure to include the tapes replay because there's no
way you were able to be that clever all on your own.