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THE podcast for navigating all things midlife with honesty, humor, and heart
Heidi (00:15)
Hey there, welcome to the Evolving Together Podcast, the podcast for navigating all things midlife with honesty, humor, and heart. I am your host, Heidi Sexton. And just a side note, you don't need to be in midlife to enjoy this podcast because many of the topics we talk about, including the one coming up, are really universal. we have lots of listeners in their twenties, thirties, sixties, and seventies, and even eighties.
So don't let the title or introduction scare you. today my guest is Jaimee Dorris
Many of you know Jaimee as the WLOX morning anchor, a position she held for three years. Some of you met her for the first time in episode 10, where we talked about transitions and reinventions. And y'all, she is the queen of reinventions. So she agreed to stick around and have a conversation about relationships, marriage, love.
we had a great time talking about what makes a relationship work? like how do you find the right person? Is there a right person? How do you make it work long term?
how she found her husband, and her approach to having a successful relationship. So I hope you stick around and listen in because we spill some tea we talk about our husbands a little bit.
but first I just want to ask you
To do me one favor, if you are enjoying this podcast, can you give us a thumbs up, a heart, a five-star review, a follow, something just to let us know that we are on the right track and we are bringing you conversations that you want to hear? Thank you so much for being here. Let's get started. Welcome to the podcast, Jaimee.
Heidi (01:55)
this was a natural segue to talk about our husbands. I mean, we are gonna talk about our husbands, but but Jamie and I wanted to talk about how important it is to pick the right partner in your life, whether you're in midlife or whatever age you are. So
Jaimee Dorris (02:13)
Picking
Mr. Right
Heidi (02:17)
I always tell the young kids, that's like first of all, if they could get this right the first time there'd be less divorce, but there's no perfect anything. And whether you know there's no perfect place to live, there's no perfect partner, there there might be the perfect person for you at a particular time.
Jaimee Dorris (02:37)
Mm.
Heidi (02:38)
Mm. 'Cause I know you were married before, I was
Jaimee Dorris (02:40)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (02:40)
married before, and no shade on my ex, but it's like I could not imagine dating him or marrying him again at this point. You know. It's like
Jaimee Dorris (02:51)
Y you know, I think about that
often. 'cause yes, I'm divorced and I've remarried. So this is my second marriage. Joel and I have been together fourteen years now. Okay. And married almost thirteen. but yeah, I've thought about that. Like, would I what if I met my ex today? What would would I even look at him? Like would I even notice him? I don't know.
Heidi (03:19)
That's
yeah, yeah. Well and it's funny because I think of like my exes and and this is honestly not all about our exes, but I think that's an important p it's like
Jaimee Dorris (03:28)
Of course we're gonna talk about other things
before we get to the point.
Heidi (03:30)
Right. I right. And I and
it's like I mean, I'm I'm very happy. I have three beautiful children with with him and and so I don't have any regrets on any of it, but it's like he's a different person too, I'm sure. I mean
Jaimee Dorris (03:41)
Hmm.
Heidi (03:41)
I don't I don't really you know, we're not enemies or anything like that. We just we don't really hang out. We don't we don't hang out really except occasionally on a holiday or something, but it's just like w we are so different now. And
I used to j I used to joke. You marry the first time for love and the person you marry the second time you actually like or something. I used to have a stupid saying, I don't even know what
it was, but yeah, yeah, I've heard that too. I've heard that
Jaimee Dorris (04:07)
I've always heard you marry for love, then you marry for money. Cause at first you're like,
I don't need money, and they're No, actually I kinda do.
Heidi (04:15)
Speaking of love,
yeah, and and and love is not enough. And that is something that I think when you're younger you think, right, and
Jaimee Dorris (04:19)
No, absolutely not enough. Because what is love? Love
is a verb. Most people, when they first meet somebody, they have the little butterflies and they they feel love and it's this like a little oxytocin release, especially if there's intimacy involved. And they mistaken that for real love. But real love takes time. It also is it's it's a verb. It's a verb to love is to love somebody as in do something for somebody to.
actually love them. It's not a feeling like, I just feel love. No, it's a something you do. So it's hard to just be in love with somebody you just at I don't know. I don't believe in love at first sight. So if somebody does, how's it working out for you?
Heidi (05:02)
Yeah.
Yeah, how's it working? Well, and that's the thing. I mean, we evolve as humans,
Jaimee Dorris (05:09)
Yeah.
Heidi (05:10)
you know, as we get older and something it's like, yeah,
It's like Barbara D'Angelis, one of my absolute favorite authors, I'm gonna get her on this podcast if it's the last thing I do. She says that we don't fall in love. It's your love rises up within you and meets the love that rises up in the other person and they kind of come and and do a dance. Now I might not I'm paraphrasing. So it's like,
Jaimee Dorris (05:33)
Wow, that's beautiful.
Heidi (05:34)
yeah, so the love that is within you, it's self-love. You also have to have the love for yourself and so
Jaimee Dorris (05:40)
Yes.
Heidi (05:41)
you don't fall in love.
with this other person there, their love rises up and your love rises up and and that's how that happens. So I mean she probably explains a lot better. And she will want to have her on the podcast.
Jaimee Dorris (05:53)
I like it. You will
definitely get her on. I love it.
Heidi (05:55)
I will
I yeah, she's amazing. But she's written a book called The Choice for Love, which is amazing. It's like one of my favorite books. It's all marked up and everything and it was a it was a big a big deal for me when I got that book. A lot of things shifted in my relationships after and it wasn't just about romantic love, it's about all kinds of loves. And but she's written a lot of books on love. she wrote the book, Are You the Right One for Me or something like that and
Jaimee Dorris (06:20)
So she's a
love doctor. Love doctor. I love it. It's funny, you know, when I was younger, even
Heidi (06:21)
She's a lo I love that, yes. She's a low doctor.
Jaimee Dorris (06:28)
like up until when I got married to my second husband, I felt like I had it all figured out. And the longer that we've been married, the more I'm like, I can't possibly give somebody advice on how to find the right person or like how to do this. because it's just so
unique. But I saw something the other day that it stuck with me and I went, that's a really good thing to think about. And it is when you have a hard time making a decision and you're trying to find the right decision. And it could be the right spouse, instead of worrying about making the right decision, what if you make your decision right?
I know. Very
Heidi (07:15)
Whoa
Jaimee Dorris (07:18)
different. Now I'm not you know, I I I would put a little asterisk on there. I think the asterisk is gonna be where the advice comes in. Okay. Like, no, you don't wanna make it right with an abuser. Okay, yes, we got that, right? Like there's certain things that are just
Heidi (07:29)
Mm. A hundred yeah, a hundred percent.
Jaimee Dorris (07:32)
absolute red flags. No. But I do think, you know, if you've found somebody and they are quote, good enough, right? They check some of the boxes, things are are clicking. What if you just made the relationship right? And so
worrying if they are the right person. Because I do not believe there's such a thing as one Mr. or Mrs. Right I don't believe that.
Heidi (07:53)
Yeah, I don't either. And I I love that quote. Now a after it settled in a minute, I was like, Okay, I get that now. But yeah, and because we all have f things that aren't our ideal traits. Even us, you know. And
Jaimee Dorris (08:08)
I know, I know. I'm so perfect.
Heidi (08:10)
And so I think that it's like, giving the other person grace to just be human, you know, that's a big part of it. And and do you think, the whole thing about opposites attract and, you know, I they do yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (08:20)
you know they do. You know they do. Opposites. I mean, my goodness.
You know, I think if I could, if I could talk to somebody who is younger, especially, but even if somebody that's like my age or or maybe transitioning into a different relationship or something, you know, I would say that there are a few things that are really, really, really important on that like small list of where I could really advise somebody. And the first thing is you need to know what you really
Want. Like, and this is that self-love you were just talking about. Like, you have to know what you want. And so an example would be when you're envisioning what you want for your life, and this is especially beneficial if you're really young. Like, if you know what you want for your life and your vision is that you're moving to New York City and you're going to be a fashion designer, you probably don't want to marry a farmer.
Heidi (09:14)
I was just gonna say you don't wanna marry a farmer. You're right.
Jaimee Dorris (09:16)
Yeah it's it's not that he's terrible,
but y you're you're gonna have to sacrifice your vision for your life. Okay. So like that's huge. And so I think if you write it down like this is what I really want for my life, and you're aware of that, then you could put that in your back pocket. You know that's important. So that when you're on a first date and you're talking about, yeah, my dream is I wanna move to New York City, blah blah and the guy across you says, my gosh, I wanna move to New York City too.
Heidi (09:44)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (09:45)
Now you
You have a common thread, but it's been based on what you want for your life. So I think it's so
Heidi (09:50)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (09:51)
important. And maybe in midlife that's important too. If you have been refining yourself and you now have a different vision. You don't want to live in New York anymore. Now you want to retire in in Florida. You know, find somebody who wants the same thing. It doesn't have to be they want the same thing for dinner, but they want the same life.
Heidi (10:11)
Yes. I I think that comes down to just being really honest about who you are and what you need. Because that
when we're not honest with with ourselves about what it is that makes us happy. You know, some people it goes back to the five love languages. You know, it's like, you know, is is gift giving your love language, and I would think it might be yours based on some conversations we've had in the past. words of affirmation and things, it's like you don't have to have the same love language, but you sure have to understand each other
because there's just things about myself that I did not know. I acts of service. Those are those are huge for me. Well they were. That was not my ex's. Like he couldn't stand acts of service. Like that was not his thing. My current husband's like all about it. And the funny thing is now I'm like that's nice. But but now I want quality time.
Jaimee Dorris (11:02)
You don't even want that anymore. Well, and that's the funny thing, is
this is why it's so hard to give advice for me and my perspective, for how do you find Mr. and Mrs. Right Okay, is because we're changing. And so the person that you
Heidi (11:16)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (11:17)
marry, I mean, like my husband and I, we met 14 years ago. He is not there anymore. And neither am I. Like we're just different people. And luckily, I can say that we have maintained.
Whatever those like foundational things were that like brought us together, we've been able to maintain that. And and even though we're changing and little things are adjusting, but at least foundationally we have those things established. sometimes it's even hard to put words on what those things are. but I do know in the very beginning I said to him, This is so funny. I did a little exercise and this was I was divorced and I was like, I'm not doing that crap again.
Okay, I am gonna marry and I'm marrying for the rest of my life. And so I wrote down, I had a little paper and I was doing some online dating and I was like, what does Jaimee want? And then of course I'm thinking of all my girlfriends are like, I'm in tall, dark, and handsome. And I was like, I couldn't care less. I'm like, no, I want a man who is not afraid to get off of the the little rat wheel of life and actually live life, like, you know, handles on the bull horns.
And a man who's in charge of his own life, his own finances. basically a guy that the sky's the limit. That's what I want. That is the only thing I want. And so I went on a date with many guys. I went on a lot of first dates. I mean, we're talking about socks and sandals, short guys, tall guys, tattoos, everything. Okay. Cause that was another dating advice that I got. It was say yes to every first date. Because you never know.
What
guy is actually a great guy? Okay. So that's that's another little piece of advice. It's say yes to every first date. Know what you want, but don't be afraid to just say yes to first dates. You never know where it's gonna lead. But I would say that. So what I would say to all the guys on the first date is I would say, so see, I was I already had my own business. I was a web designer and I owned my own home. And so I I said, at this point I was like 29 or something, and I went, So here's the deal. By the time I'm 40, I'm gonna be a millionaire and I'll just stop.
And I would wait.
And I had this one guy, he was like
Well, you better marry Rich.
And I went, okay. Okay. Date is over. You know, because I what I
Heidi (13:35)
Here Scratch. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (13:39)
heard in him was he's never gonna be a millionaire. Okay. Yes, that too, of course. But but he didn't he didn't go,
Heidi (13:43)
And he didn't have the faith that you could either. On your own. Yeah, yeah. Mhm.
Jaimee Dorris (13:50)
well, baby, jump in the car, right? He said, he said,
Heidi (13:52)
Let's do it. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (13:54)
well, you better go find somebody better than me. Right. And then
Heidi (13:57)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (13:58)
when Joel and I went on a first date, first off, I was not impressed. He was not my type. He was
Heidi (14:03)
Neither was
my husband.
Jaimee Dorris (14:04)
Not I
like I I literally only said yes because my sister was like he's so hot you should give him a chance and I was like yeah he's got like four kids and he's like wearing wife beater like in a picture on Facebook and I'm like he like drives a my god he's got motorcycles and I'm like honey I don't know anyway I decided okay I'll go on one date because I told myself I'd go on one date and so I told him the same thing. I was like so I just want to let you know that I'm gonna be a millionaire but
I'm forty and I looked at him and goes, I like you.
Heidi (14:40)
Yes, yes, yes.
Jaimee Dorris (14:40)
And I'm like
Okay, question two
Heidi (14:44)
Hmm.
Yes. Well and that brings
Jaimee Dorris (14:49)
Mm.
Heidi (14:51)
me to when I was younger, you want the hot guy 'cause you're your your your hormones are like, I'm supposed to be procreating you know, I really never believed in any of that crap before, but now I'm like, Okay, that makes a lot of sense. biologically. otherwise this species would end, you know, we have to there's gotta be something there, right? but I think the
having similar values. because my husband and I don't have a lot of things in common. we have a respect for each other. And I think in addition to that it's it's also having that space for the other person to just be themselves and allow that to happen. But again, having the same values, having matching energy I think is really important. which ties in with your million dollar, dream
when I started dating. I hadn't dated for like thirty years and I that's a whole that's a whole other episode.
Jaimee Dorris (15:49)
in midlife, I bet.
Heidi (15:51)
Yeah, I'm gonna have the woman Silka from Second Act T V. It's a YouTube channel on basically dating in midlife and she's amazing. She actually is the reason why my husband and I actually got back together after we broke up.
Jaimee Dorris (16:04)
wow.
Heidi (16:04)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's another story. But anyway, I had this guy that I had been seeing and my friends met him, one of my very best friends and her husband.
And we all had fun together. It was like a weekend and after that was over, I was like, So what do you guys think? And they're like, Mmm No. He doesn't match your energy. I was like, that's what's that's what's wrong I couldn't
Jaimee Dorris (16:29)
Match your energy. See, I don't
even know what does that really mean. Is it like, you know, match my vibe?
Heidi (16:34)
I think what it is is it and I had to think about it. It's like so I think it has a lot to do with the person allowing you to to fully be you.
I'm an introvert but I have a lot of energy. And so I'm when I'm around my friends and stuff, I am loud and sometimes crude. I mean, you never know what's gonna come out of my mouth. Sometimes my kids are like, my god, mom, really? Why did you say that? And I think
By the matching the energy and so my current husband is very he's kind of the same way, even though we'd go about things completely different. But he allows me to be fully me. Like
Jaimee Dorris (17:17)
Yes.
Heidi (17:18)
I don't have to stop what I'm saying or analyze is that ooh, is it too loud or is it too sassy? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (17:23)
Walking on eggshells. that is that would be number two. Okay. Yeah, yeah. What what do you want in life? Make sure
they they want something similar, similar vision. Number two,
Heidi (17:33)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (17:35)
you can be yourself around them. Like yourself.
Heidi (17:37)
Yes. Yes. So I think
yeah. So I think that's the matching of the energy kind of thing.
Jaimee Dorris (17:42)
Okay. 'Cause I'm about to say my husband and I are very different. Like he is so
so different. Like he talks poorly about people who post on social media.
You're literally talking about me.
Heidi (17:59)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (18:01)
And it's like he just I guess sees it differently, but we're so different. And he has always just allowed me to be exactly who I am, even though he's over there judging somebody just like me. Isn't that funny?
Heidi (18:13)
Yeah. Yeah.
It is well I could probably say the same about mine 'cause there's some things that'll come up and he'll make a comment. I'm like,
That's what I think. That's that's my belief. Yeah. But I think it's i there's still that space. Just I allow him to be fully him and
Jaimee Dorris (18:29)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Heidi (18:31)
I always joke that we would have never seen each other ten, twenty years ago. I would have never even looked his way. we would not have crossed paths because he's
military and construction. Like his whole world is not anywhere near mine, so we would have never crossed paths. And but I think that it's that allowing the other person to be and not just allowing them, but really
Embracing that and sell
Jaimee Dorris (18:58)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (18:59)
celebrating, it's just really just saying I I love you for who you are in the relationship the things that come up that like, Oof, I don't know if I really like that about the other person. I'm I know there's he said to me one time when we after we just got married, he said, I thought nothing bothered him that I did He said He I
Jaimee Dorris (19:16)
Course, yes, 'cause we're perfect.
Heidi (19:18)
don't know what he's
said
something about like you you drive me F and crazy. I don't know I don't know what I was like you you don't like when I do that? I didn't know that. He's like well I'm not gonna tell you that. What would be the point of that because you're still gonna do it anyway And I thought he's right, I am still gonna do it anyway and he's Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (19:36)
Yeah. Cause look, people it's hard for people to change. I mean it's hard to change yourself. People don't
necessarily just change. And that's the interesting thing about when I said love is a verb, to love somebody is what you're saying. It's just it's kind of to like let them be who they are, even if there's parts about them that are annoying you or you know you know, you have to obviously set your own boundaries so you know you're not y having
Heidi (19:57)
Right, right.
Jaimee Dorris (19:58)
some issues within yourself, but it's like letting somebody be who they are. and both
Heidi (20:02)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (20:03)
spouses having that same respect.
Heidi (20:06)
Yes, yes. And and y yes, and focusing on the big things because the
Jaimee Dorris (20:09)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (20:10)
little I I don't remember what it was specifically. It was probably one of my neurotic things about food. But
But he just let it go. Like he d he didn't you know, he didn't dwell on it 'cause he he knew well it's not that important, you know. something else about I think the ability to grow together. Like
Jaimee Dorris (20:28)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (20:28)
and and that's where I think you might have the same values, want the same things in life, allow each other to have their space to be themselves, but then it's tricky because I think you don't always know who's who's open to growing and s in
Jaimee Dorris (20:45)
And they don't know if they are or not. You
have no idea. You have no clue. You don't know who's gonna be the one
Heidi (20:47)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't
Jaimee Dorris (20:50)
that says, you know what, I'm done growing and you know, you have fun with that. Nobody actually says that.
Heidi (20:54)
Mhm. Right, right.
And that's the thing. It's like people can say all the things. Like, yeah, I love I love Tony Robbins or whoever, like some self help whatever. Doesn't mean they're actually gonna do the work.
Jaimee Dorris (21:07)
No, you really
do have to get to know people. But that I love that quote that I said at the very beginning, which is, yes, you know, you could sit there worrying about finding the right person or you can make the person right. You know, you can at some point go, hey, this is who I've chosen. We, we, you know, checked off on a certain number of boxes. And you know what? Life is a freaking game. You know, like nothing is guaranteed. Nothing. You're
Heidi (21:31)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (21:32)
not gonna find the right person. You almost have to make the relationship right.
Heidi (21:37)
Yeah, the and you yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (21:38)
And and it's it's
you're fifty percent of it and you're gonna be just as involved in creating the growing together over time. but yeah,
Heidi (21:47)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (21:48)
it it's hard to give advice on this kind of stuff.
Heidi (21:51)
Yeah, but
I think but but I think that's the in it's not even about advice, it's just, you know, the window into what what it really looks like to be with
Jaimee Dorris (21:58)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (21:58)
somebody that is supportive because you know when you're with somebody that's not, it just doesn't feel good. It doesn't f yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (22:04)
It doesn't feel right. And if you are able to I think one
of the things is is when if you you're with them and your life is better.
Heidi (22:13)
Yes. I yes, yes. Because in all the all the tough times and and it's like I don't know how you guys handle it, but you know, when when there's tough times
We have to talk about things which is super uncomfortable.
Jaimee Dorris (22:26)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heidi (22:29)
And you know, it's like as long as your partner is showing up and saying, Yes, let's talk about this and willing to work on the things, then you have that ability to to make it right. But
if they
Jaimee Dorris (22:41)
To work through the hard the the hard. Yeah.
Heidi (22:43)
right, because it's gonna be hard and if you shut down, I mean I can say for sure that my husband was not a talker or a sharer.
Jaimee Dorris (22:51)
Okay, well then
that's gonna be number three. I'm liking this. I'm just creating my own list as we talk. and I'm like, okay, number three, the ability to work through problems. Because you're right. I mean, when you first start dating somebody, you're probably not gonna have that many problems to begin with. But when you do have a problem, how is it resolved? If somebody
Heidi (23:08)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (23:10)
runs, doesn't wanna talk, can't have a hard conversation, can't deal with any amount.
any possible blame, can't deal with any little criticism, is just, you know, super sensitive about everything. how are you gonna do life with this person? Because you're gonna have a lot of problems. You're gonna have a lot of disagreements. You're gonna have a lot of hurt feelings. I I see people that have been married for 50 years and I think to myself, how many times have they broken each other's
Heidi (23:35)
Mm. Yes. And how many times have they recreated that union? You know, like
Jaimee Dorris (23:43)
How many tough
discussions have they had? How many times did they have to go through those hard moments and have to hear what the other person needs or isn't getting and and how many times? It wasn't just, you know, all roses for fifty years.
Heidi (23:58)
Yeah, and they they couldn't have FOMO, you know, it's like, I I c I I need to be with somebody else. It's like, Yes, you know. Right.
Jaimee Dorris (24:04)
no, you weren't the wrong you weren't the one for me. At some point.
I think something I said to myself when we got married as well was you know, I'm choosing you. And you've checked off on these boxes, right? I've got my little checks right here. I then I'm actually ready. Okay.
Heidi (24:20)
I love it.
Jaimee Dorris (24:22)
I don't know what's coming next, right? But I'm going to decide that unless something comes up that is an absolute deal.
breaker okay deal breaker we all know what those are most people should know what those are unless something comes up that's just absolute deal breaker we're in it we're in it we're gonna make it right and I think there's
Heidi (24:44)
Yeah. I love it.
Jaimee Dorris (24:46)
an important part of that that a lot of people miss it's almost like no it's only gonna work out if it works out you know as long as it's good you know if if if we have a discussion if
We
have an impasse, if we have something that's not feeling right for a little while, okay, that means the relationship's over. You know? she wasn't one.
Heidi (25:07)
Yeah. Yeah. And you could you could you c take yourself with you to each new relationship. So So
Jaimee Dorris (25:11)
Yeah. You do. Yes, you do. Yeah, you do. You can get rid of him, you can
get rid of her all day long. But if you haven't fixed yourself, you just gonna date him
Heidi (25:18)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (25:19)
all over again.
Heidi (25:20)
You're just gonna
that whole cycle just keeps on going. Yeah, and I was determined to to be a different person I started doing a lot of work on myself over the years and I remember I was married to my first husband and I guess my youngest was probably a baby. I don't know. I have three kids. And he was like, You're being just like your father
Yeah. Controlling. and I was like, my God.
Right. And I remember I walked out into the field. We lived out in the country at the time, and I walked out in the field. I remember just standing there and I I made this promise to myself. I was like, Nope, I'm not doing that. Because my dad was very controlling. He was, you know, he had a lot of good traits, but boy, he was tough to grow up with. He obviously mellowed as he got older, but he had a lot of control issues and and things like that. And I was doing those things. I mean, there's nothing
like you know, bringing things to the surface when
you
have kids, it's like,
Jaimee Dorris (26:18)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (26:19)
God, I'm looking at my parents and I'm my I'm now being my parent that I didn't want to I don't want to be doing these things but he said that to me and that was a a turning point. And I think that's when I really, really started to do Yeah. Yeah, that was a
Jaimee Dorris (26:30)
And this was your first husband, right? Okay. Now I've I'm curious, how long have you been married
to your current husband? And he's your second, right?
Heidi (26:38)
Yes, he's my second and my hopefully my last.
Jaimee Dorris (26:42)
How long have you been together?
Heidi (26:42)
No, he
twenty twenty one. We met in twenty twenty one and we got married in the beginning of twenty twenty three.
Jaimee Dorris (26:49)
This is like brand new.
Heidi (26:51)
yeah. And he would have gotten married right away. Except
Jaimee Dorris (26:53)
Yeah.
Heidi (26:54)
and I love our story we met online and he was the first guy that I'd seen on this actually I didn't even see him 'cause he didn't I didn't pay to see his face and so
Jaimee Dorris (27:03)
On a dating app. You cheap O you're like I don't care what it looks like.
Heidi (27:07)
I didn't want to do it, but my roommate was like, You better get on there, you need to get out and you know, she just met this great guy who she ended up marrying and the first guy she met too, so
Jaimee Dorris (27:17)
Oh my
Heidi (27:18)
I know, it's crazy. And so
was like, I don't know what I'm doing anyway. I didn't want to pay 'cause I like, I I don't really want to do this, you know, but I I get on there and I see his bio and I'm like, he's funny, he's got a sense of humor. Well, he's interesting, he's got a lot of stuff going on. So I d you know, drop the money and then I see his picture and I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. What? He is he's he's standing in front of his boat, but it's
very far away. So I can't really see him. He's got a hat on. He's wearing like white socks and dock siders, I think, and some blue shorts and a like a white Oxford shirt unbuttoned, you know, long sleeve. And that's what he's wearing. And I'm like that
Jaimee Dorris (28:03)
He's really proud of his boat.
Heidi (28:05)
Yeah. Yeah, well you know the guys, they hold up the fish and the deer
Jaimee Dorris (28:08)
so in his profile
pick, he got the boat in the pro
Heidi (28:11)
Yeah. He put the boat in the pro he was so damn proud of that boat. He's still proud of that boat.
Jaimee Dorris (28:14)
He's like, who cares about me? Look at
Heidi (28:17)
Yeah, I know. And I was like, my god, no.
Jaimee Dorris (28:19)
What a dude. That is such a dude thing. It's like the guy that's like posing with his Camaro. Look, Joel's
profile picture to him on a motorcycle. And I was like Yes!
Heidi (28:30)
Did he have a shirt off too?
Jaimee Dorris (28:32)
no, no, no. He had no. Take that back. He had a wife beater on, and I'm like on a motorcycle.
Heidi (28:38)
I don't know which is worse.
Well, I guess yeah, so I mean we've
Jaimee Dorris (28:43)
Yeah.
Heidi (28:44)
we finally had a date. we finally yeah. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (28:46)
So hold on, I gotta go back to this boat picture. So why
okay, what did you think about him in after this picture? You paid your money.
Heidi (28:55)
well,
okay. So that was the first picture and then I look at all the other pictures and it's
when we we finally had a a date set, I was like, I don't know who I'm meeting 'cause he had from when he was nineteen. When he was like buff, like, you know, ripped.
Jaimee Dorris (29:10)
A picture from when he was nineteen?
Heidi (29:12)
Nineteen. He had some other pictures Yeah, he had some other pictures throughout
Jaimee Dorris (29:14)
What? And this is like twenty twenty one? He's cli
Heidi (29:18)
his military career and different things and I'm like this is what I learned
Jaimee Dorris (29:21)
An interesting profile.
Heidi (29:23)
about guys on dating apps, is that they don't have a freaking clue. Like they they put up they wear sunglasses and they do all these things. They
They put up pictures of the like they're looking for another dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, exactly, exactly. yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I didn't he didn't have the truck in the picture. I met the truck on
Jaimee Dorris (29:34)
Like they're just trying look cool or something. Let me show you that when I was nineteen I was a bodybuilder. And and guess what? I got a boat and hold up, I got a truck too. but you know it
Heidi (29:51)
the first date though. But that was the thing, it was like
I thought, okay, I liked his bio. I'm gonna meet this guy. I don't even know what he looks like 'cause I'm looking at all the pictures and you cannot tell. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (30:02)
Well he wears sunglasses to bed, so it's okay. He just always wears the sunglasses.
Heidi (30:08)
Actually I think he had sunglasses on in the picture. But he was so far away I couldn't
even really see. but
Jaimee Dorris (30:11)
Yeah, you can't even say yeah. A hat with sunglasses.
Heidi (30:14)
Yeah, I saw the white socks and I like, my what the what the hell? Anyway, I
So we had our first date and and I was like, he's an interesting guy, you know? And he's pretty cute, but I was like, I don't know, But he had a mission and he loves to tell the story. his goal was to meet someone and get married. and then fall in love. Like he had a whole plan.
But he was clueless. He was clueless because the the first second no, the second date. So our first date was four and a half hours and I I did not realize that that was a good first date, you know. I didn't I 'cause I'm like, I don't know, I'm enjoying myself, so I'm just gonna hang out and you know and then someone said, How long was it? I said, Four and a half hours and they're like, my god that's
Jaimee Dorris (30:57)
Yeah, talked a
lot.
Heidi (30:58)
It must
have went well. And I said, Yeah, actually now that I think about it, it did. Well anyway, second date he asked if I'd ever get married again and would I change my last name? And I'm like, boy. Okay, nope.
Jaimee Dorris (31:08)
Wow, second date.
Heidi (31:14)
And I'm like, Maybe he's just not a very physical person? I don't know. So anyway, before our third date, I said, Look.
You're a nice guy, you've got a lot to offer somebody, but I am not the wife for you. I'm not, you know, I I don't want to date anymore, but I will help you find somebody because I think you're a nice guy and I think that like he needs protection because he's like an open book. He messaged me that first time before we met and I said, You gave me your name, where you live, your job, practically gave me your social security number. I'm like, You need protection. I'm gonna I will help you find somebody.
Jaimee Dorris (31:46)
Yeah, he is not the mystery man, is he?
Heidi (31:49)
No, no. I'm like, my gosh, someone could really take advantage of him
Anyway, so I said, I'll become your dating coach. Yeah,
Jaimee Dorris (31:54)
help you.
Heidi (31:55)
I'm gonna help you. I said, we're gonna first thing, we're gonna change the pictures on your dating app and all this stuff. And so he would he would text me.
Jaimee Dorris (32:01)
Idie, you did not.
Heidi (32:03)
yeah, yeah. And so he texted me and he would be like, Well, I'm wearing this, and what do you think? And I have this date coming up, we're gonna go here, and I'm like, okay, well don't wear that. We're do this and you know no. And anyway, I real I know
Jaimee Dorris (32:12)
A wingman. Like this is so funny.
Heidi (32:17)
I know!
But I was a hundred percent serious. I I don't even know if I wanna Yeah. I'm like,
Jaimee Dorris (32:19)
Yeah, I I get it. You're being honest. Dude, I don't like you, but I'll help you find somebody.
Heidi (32:24)
I don't even know if I wanna get married, and you're talking about like, you know, changing your last
Jaimee Dorris (32:26)
Last names.
Heidi (32:27)
name. And so I said, Well so at some point I started dreaming about him and I thought, this is weird. And why every time he texts me, why do I get all like excited and happy? And I'm like, wait a second. I was getting to know him as a person and not as
Jaimee Dorris (32:42)
Yeah.
Heidi (32:42)
a potential partner. And so I was like, he's funny and he's he's got all these
great qualities. I'm like, wait a minute, if somebody else comes along, how am I gonna feel? And that's when I realized yeah. So I said, I can't be your dating coach anymore. And he was like, what? Why? He says he was playing it the whole time. He's he's like I I knew you were gonna be my wife. He said, I knew it. I just had to be patient. I was like you rascal. we we did break up at one point and that's when he just
Jaimee Dorris (33:10)
Before you got married?
Heidi (33:11)
Yeah, yeah, because I I saw patterns.
And I said, I'm not doing this again. And that's when he found the second act TV. great videos for anyone that is you know thinking about dating or dating in midlife. I highly recommend I I'm gonna have her on too. I've just gotta figure out how to get in touch with her. But so yeah, he he started went down the rabbit hole and and started working on himself. He was very
Jaimee Dorris (33:35)
Well, he clearly was motivated. He wanted to get married, so he was willing to work
on himself. That's good.
Heidi (33:40)
Yeah. And and that was a big deal.
and that showed me that he was you know, he was open
Jaimee Dorris (33:45)
Well, and that sounds like really great
marriage material. I'm a big fan of somebody being honest and saying, Hey, this is actually what I'm looking for. I know I told Joel that. I mean, after I said the whole I'll be a millionaire by the time I'm forty. My next thing probably I don't know if it was the first date, but within the first couple of dates was I'm not just dating. Like I had like a four year old son, you know, four or five year old son. I was divorced, all that jazz. And I I I I'm not looking
To
just bring some guy home and we're gonna date for a little while. And then, you know, like I have a son, you know, like if I'm
Heidi (34:18)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (34:18)
gonna do this, I'm looking to build family, you know? And so that was something I was very honest about, I told him, I'm like, You don't have to marry me, but I am getting married. So,
Heidi (34:29)
Haha.
Jaimee Dorris (34:30)
like, that's what I'm doing. And it doesn't have to be
Heidi (34:33)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (34:33)
you. And it always bothered him when I would say that. It doesn't have to be you. I I'm just I just letting you know that's what's happening.
Heidi (34:41)
Well, and I think too, it's like when you get that clarity about
Jaimee Dorris (34:43)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (34:44)
w who you are and what you want, then you can communicate that and you're
Jaimee Dorris (34:48)
Yeah.
Heidi (34:48)
not and you're very upfront, you know, it's like, I'm not playing here.
Jaimee Dorris (34:52)
And I think that's so important. I honestly think, I mean, if there's
any any dating advice that I'm seriously, I'm over here like I'm trying to put together dating advice for people. That is one of it. It's like you've gotta be so honest. You've gotta be honest with who you are, what you want, what you need, what's it all about, and let the other person be honest as well. Ask them to be honest, hopefully, like what is it that you want? And and and it's like I feel like
Heidi (35:13)
hopefully
Jaimee Dorris (35:17)
when people like get all infatuated with the idea of love.
They have this romantic idea that I'm just gonna like fall in love and it's gonna be perfect. And it's like, no, because first off, if you just fall in love, you're just gonna make something that's not right. You're gonna try to make it right, and you're not going to actually be honest because you're gonna be clouded by your emotions. so you know, you're gonna be sitting over there wanting to be a a cowgirl and you're gonna be marrying a city slicker, you know, you because you're gonna be like, Well, we were in love.
Heidi (35:47)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (35:51)
but is that what you wanted? I think a lot of people they don't know what they want. And especially women, don't want to say what they want.
Heidi (36:00)
I think that is so true Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, a hundred percent.
Jaimee Dorris (36:06)
Tell the guy
that I want to get married? Why not? Why can't you tell him that? You don't he don't he doesn't have to be the one. You could just say, I'm planning on getting married. I would like to be married in the next few years. Like I'm actively seeking marriage.
Heidi (36:20)
You could be like my my husband was, you know. He and it it's funny 'cause when I when he f I was like,
Jaimee Dorris (36:24)
Hi, would you like to change last name? I'm Bill.
Heidi (36:27)
my God, he hasn't even held my hand and I was just like, This is not this is not going where he I no,
Jaimee Dorris (36:33)
He knew exactly what he wanted.
Heidi (36:35)
It was so crazy. when we got back together, I said, I because we you know, we broke up, I saw these patterns and we got back together and I said, I will I will date you again. I said, But there's there's conditions. I said, number one, do not mention marriage. Don't even bring it up. I said, I don't want to hear about a ring. I don't want to hear about a timeline, I wanna nothing. I said, You cannot bring that up. I said, and
Jaimee Dorris (36:56)
Interesting. So your truth was you didn't want to get
married. Okay.
Heidi (36:59)
I didn't think I did. No, I didn't
think I did. And and I said, and I want you to meet my friends.
Jaimee Dorris (37:06)
I think that's important.
Heidi (37:08)
big time. Esther Perrell i Yes. Mm-hmm.
Jaimee Dorris (37:09)
Okay, number four. We're writing these down.
Heidi (37:12)
So Esther Perell, she's like the relationship expert of of all times. I absolutely love her. she always recommended when you're going on a first date, meet up with your friends. Like have come join you to do something fun with your friends.
And that way you can see how he is around your friends and it's just more casual. It takes that pressure off of that that first date of like, what are we gonna talk about in some awkward, you know, over some terrible calamari or whatever? You know, we're just like, you know, you're you're you're around your friends and if the person doesn't feel comfortable around your friends or whatever and it's so funny 'cause I used to I used to suggest that to my daughter and and probably my son too. but especially her. I was like, Well, why don't you just,
meet out with your girlfriends, and she's like, Are you serious? I'm like, I am a hundred percent serious. Because I wanted that person to meet my friends right away. I wanted to know what stupid thing might come out of their mouth, my friends and the guy. I wanted him to see me in my environment because I am not I'm not quieting myself for anybody, and I'm gonna be me. And I want to see how he
is and I want to
Jaimee Dorris (38:19)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (38:19)
see his friends. How is he around his friends? Is it different than when he's around my friends? And I love that advice. Now I don't know how many people actually do that.
Jaimee Dorris (38:26)
Well, I and it's funny, I don't necessarily
think it has to be a first date. I do believe, though, it is important to introduce somebody you're dating, especially early before you're in love, and let them meet your friends. Let your friends meet them. Not necessarily so that they all hang out like that, but so that you can actually hear from your friends what they think.
Heidi (38:53)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (38:53)
this is
something I didn't do with my first marriage that I wish I would have done. I wish I would have asked and actually trusted other people's opinions. Because when you're in love, you kind of make a lot of mistakes because you're in love. But if you literally ask your three best friends like, hey, what did you think of John? if your friends truly love you, they should be able to say, he's pretty nice. I kind of like him. Or
And I I I he wasn't really I wasn't vibing with him. Or
Heidi (39:24)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (39:25)
hey, I didn't really get a chance to get to know him. Maybe I need to see him again. Yeah, maybe I need to meet him another time. Like it has to be one of those things. And my my thing when I was dating Joel was I need four out of my five friends to say yes.
Heidi (39:38)
I love I love that. See that's fantastic advice.
Jaimee Dorris (39:41)
Four out of five. And I got five out of five, by the way. But I need I I needed four people
to say, yes, I think he's a good match for you.
Heidi (39:50)
Yeah, your people. Because the thing is it's easy when you're in love, you know, like you said, it's like, but it'll work out and and there's red flags going off and your friends or the the family,
Jaimee Dorris (39:58)
Everywhere.
Heidi (40:00)
right, that you really trust and love are like, Ooh, I don't think so. You have to you have to have that trust in that relationship. I've heard people say, Well, they're not dating him, but I'm like, Yeah, but you are. I'm sorry, when you are in a serious relationship or you're married, you're married to your partner's family and to your partner's
Friends.
Jaimee Dorris (40:18)
You are. And
I think there's something important about somebody who isn't dating that person is that they're seeing them in an almost an unbiased way. And they're able to, if they love you and they really want what's best for you, I think they can see things that you can't see. And I do like it's funny. I I spent a little bit
Heidi (40:35)
wow, yes.
Jaimee Dorris (40:37)
of time in India back in twenty thirteen, long time ago.
And
I learned a lot about arranged marriage. And before I learned about arranged marriages, I thought that was the most inhumane thing that could ever possibly happen. But when I was in India, I had several families like communicate what's the point of an arranged marriage. And the point basically is that the family, like the mom and dad, want what's best for their child. And they know their child very well. And so there's a lot of family support. And they know what young people don't, which is you can.
Fall in love over time. You don't have to be in love when you get married. You'll fall in love over time, as long as the right things are in place. And so I learned that. I mean, I'm still not necessarily a fan of arranged marriages, but I see it differently. And so, in some small way, this is not obviously not an arranged marriage deal, but it's
Heidi (41:29)
Ha ha
Jaimee Dorris (41:30)
asking other people's opinions and actually being humble enough to listen and not be defensive.
Heidi (41:36)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (41:37)
Because if if literally, if
You're my best friend and you're dating some guy and I get the ick
Heidi (41:43)
Hm.
Jaimee Dorris (41:43)
and I say to you, Heidi, I know you really want to get married or I know you're really interested in this guy. I just don't know if he's the one for you. You know, like I'm getting the ick. If you turn to me and go, I think he's great. Don't tell me what to do. I okay. Well, good luck on that. So there's a part of you who you have to be humble about it. And I think
If you're dating somebody and it's early into the relationship and you're not trying to make him be the one, you really want to know is, is it right? Are those foundational things there? Then yeah, ask your friends. Have them meet them, whether it's a first date or a fourth date.
Heidi (42:17)
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Because
you can really massage the relationship almost any kind of relationship into making it the the right situation. Like
Jaimee Dorris (42:29)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (42:30)
you can be like, Yeah, but
know, and you can do that with a lot of different situations. But your friends are gonna be the ones that are gonna go, you know, I something's a little off. In fact we went to go see, my BFF up in Georgia, Susan.
You'll hear a lot about her on this podcast 'cause we have a lot of conversations and we're gonna be recording the final piece was my my people here were like, Okay, cool. He met my kids. My kids are like, Yeah, okay. If you seem happy. That's what my kids said. 'Cause they didn't quite see me they had never seen me with anybody other than their dad. the whole thing was weird.
Jaimee Dorris (43:09)
Yeah. That was probably odd for them. Yeah.
Heidi (43:12)
And and so
But they're like, But mom seems happy, you know, and he's he feeds us. He's he loves cooking. He loves
Jaimee Dorris (43:18)
It's not bad.
Heidi (43:19)
cooking and he cooks really well, like really, really well. And my kids love eating. So they're like, Well, he feeds us and we can have as much bacon as we want. So yeah, teenage boys want that. So,
Jaimee Dorris (43:28)
It's a check mark in my book. Yeah.
Heidi (43:31)
you know, and so I said, Well, okay, this is good, but I have to have the final the stamp of approval. So we went and saw my friends and they were like, Yep, he matches your energy. He's he's it.
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (43:43)
and now you can say, Okay,
I've done these four things and now I'm ready to say, if we say I do which you didn't at the time, but if we say I do, at least I know I tried to marry the right person, but I'm gonna make the marriage right. So I wrote it down, by the way. Mm-hmm. I got okay, you have
Heidi (43:57)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Yeah. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (44:04)
to be honest with what your dreams are, what your desires are. And it it can't
Heidi (44:08)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (44:08)
be too much. It's gotta be kind of simple.
You
know, like what are your big general desires? Be honest.
Heidi (44:11)
Yeah. Yeah. The big yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (44:14)
And then see if you're able to be yourself around them. Do you let them be you? can you be yourself? Do you let them be them? Yeah, see how natural you are together. Number three, how do they handle conflict? Because you're gonna have conflict. So how do they handle it? Do they sit down and have a nice conversation and actually try to make amends? Or do they just run for the hills? And then lastly,
Ask your friends what they think.
Heidi (44:43)
this see you are note taking the I know we did
Jaimee Dorris (44:44)
We're like love doctors.
Heidi (44:47)
a good job on this this was like this is like our other conversation too we didn't know exactly where this was gonna go
Jaimee Dorris (44:50)
It is.
Heidi (44:53)
but I I I love that you were taking notes because that is such good advice and I think that that is
Jaimee Dorris (44:58)
And it's very like
arbitrary. It's not what you're thinking the advice is gonna be, which
Heidi (45:03)
Right.
Jaimee Dorris (45:03)
by the way, this is like a this was my microphone instruction manual. So I wrote on it. I agree with you. Like I I I
Heidi (45:08)
We'll put that in the show notes. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (45:12)
almost at this point, especially midlife, I hate acting like, A, I know it all, I know exactly what's gonna be right, what's exactly gonna be perfect, because I know now that basically everything I say is arbitrary and I don't know.
You know, but I like to find things that do feel concrete. Cause I don't think anything on here is wrong. It is important to
Heidi (45:35)
Right.
Jaimee Dorris (45:35)
communicate what it is you really want for your life and and communicate it, you know?
Heidi (45:38)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (45:39)
It is important to see how somebody handles conflict. That's never gonna be wrong in any relationship. It's never gonna be wrong to know that you can be yourself around the person. And it's
Heidi (45:48)
Hm.
Jaimee Dorris (45:48)
never gonna be wrong to ask your friends and see what everybody thinks. I mean, it doesn't have to be, you know, a consensus, but it needs to be a majority.
Heidi (45:56)
Yeah, it does. Yeah. But the number one was wait, what was number one again? There Yes. Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (46:01)
Know what you want for your life, what your dreams are. Yeah.
Heidi (46:04)
Yeah. we were talking about communication. I is that number two? Communicate be honest and communicate your Yeah. Or well, I don't know what number, but yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (46:10)
Mm-hmm. w I don't know. We can we we can describe these better. I
just wrote down whatever.
Yes.
Heidi (46:15)
Somewhere somewhere in the essay. but I think
that communication, it's like we can always improve our communication with ourselves and our relationships around us. And so I think that that is a huge part of why a relationship works and doesn't work is can you communicate you might be so different, like my husband, we are so different, but
Jaimee Dorris (46:36)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (46:37)
we communicate so that we understand each other. And when we do
don't we we talk about it. And I remember I learned that from my my brother and my late sister in law. We had this conversation about, you know, why my first marriage was wasn't working and we it was just it was awful because we had so much love for each other. But my God could we not communicate. It was like it did not matter what I said. He heard what he wanted to hear. Or he heard something different. And so if you cannot communicate, you don't have anything to work on.
Jaimee Dorris (47:12)
Yeah. You gotta work on the communication. Yeah.
Heidi (47:12)
You know, you're you're going off yeah,
you're w you're going off in in in, you know, left field, right field and my husband and I w when we got married, you know, I and I finally after he met my friends, I finally said, Okay, you can talk about marriage again Because I realized what I realize is I like being married and I didn't
Jaimee Dorris (47:31)
Yeah.
Heidi (47:31)
I did not know that until I ha I just kinda had an epiphany one day. I'm like, I like building a life with somebody. I like having that
Jaimee Dorris (47:40)
That witness.
Heidi (47:42)
Yes, a w yes, a witness yes. I
Jaimee Dorris (47:44)
Somebody to witness your life.
Heidi (47:46)
Yeah, I recently heard that and I thought that is exactly
Jaimee Dorris (47:48)
Mm.
Heidi (47:48)
it. I really love that union and that building and know it's not perfect and it's hard work and some days I'm like
Jaimee Dorris (47:55)
Did I marry the right person?
Heidi (47:57)
I'd be better off single. You know, you're just like,
Jaimee Dorris (47:59)
That's so funny.
Heidi (48:01)
I listened to some relationship expert on Mel Robbins one time and he said, Well, one thing's for certain is like you're definitely gonna hate your spouse some days and I'm like, Wait, is that normal? Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (48:11)
Ya well, yes, that's normal. I mean, I wouldn't say hate, but you're not gonna be you're gonna go, Mm
Heidi (48:16)
you really don't like some days, but it's like that's not the
Jaimee Dorris (48:19)
Like I'm like, come on, it was obvious,
Jamie, there was the motorcycle. I mean, that the red flag was there. Yeah, yeah, of course, you're gonna have those days. But I feel like
Heidi (48:29)
Yeah, yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (48:30)
if those foundational things are there, and I love the I love the whole thing about communication. I sometimes I feel like when people say, you don't know how to communicate, it's kinda played out, you know, like what does that really mean?
Heidi (48:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (48:40)
And that's what I'm kinda liking about our things here is because they don't seem so cliche.
They seem very approachable and and and and doable without being cliche. But what I think that's really important with communication is something that I've always felt my husband and I do well is typically it's me. I got a problem with something. I bring it to him and he has always been really good about we even have our spots where we sit. Okay, I've got my little spot
Heidi (49:06)
Mm-hmm. Yep, we do too.
Jaimee Dorris (49:08)
and I'm like, I need to talk.
Heidi (49:12)
I don't know.
Jaimee Dorris (49:13)
And he will assume his spot and he will listen. And he will listen for two hours if he has to listen for two hours. Now, I'm not saying he's always on his best behavior. He's not. However, he will listen and he will respond. And he will listen and he will respond. And we don't necessarily always love each other afterwards. Sometimes I'm still like, yeah,
Heidi (49:35)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (49:35)
I still don't mind you. However, there's a respect there and there is a trust and a safety that I
Can communicate what my problem is at any given moment, Right? I mean, like whatever my problem is, like I'm able to communicate it
Heidi (49:51)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (49:52)
and I know and I can trust that I'm going to be heard and there's gonna be enough respect for me. And I know it from
Heidi (49:59)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (50:00)
previous relationships that wasn't always the case. There's a lot of walking on eggshells around somebody because they don't deal with conflict.
at
all and don't want to
Heidi (50:09)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (50:10)
have that conversation and they don't want to sit down and they don't want to respect you and they want to gaslight you and tell you that your feelings don't matter. And that goes back to the how do they handle conflict?
Heidi (50:21)
Yes.
Jaimee Dorris (50:21)
doesn't mean you always have to agree. It doesn't mean you always have to kiss and make up, but at least do they are they willing to meet you and listen.
Heidi (50:29)
Yes. And we learn how to deal with conflict from our parents and, you know, our childhood, so it's up to us, if it's not a healthy way of dealing with it, to change it. So that's the thing. it's funny what you said about having the seat and
Jaimee Dorris (50:41)
Yeah, for it's time.
Heidi (50:46)
don't know where I learned this from, it's like if you have an issue you need to address it. But it doesn't always have to be in the very moment, but you have to
Pick and choose. You know, if it's a heated moment, it's not gonna benefit you to bring up something necessarily. 'cause I wanna make
Jaimee Dorris (51:02)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (51:02)
sure that my feelings aren't reactive, you know. I wanna process it. I wanna think about what is my stance? How do I feel? Do I really have to say this? Is this gonna be hurtful if I say it? And so when things, you know, calm down a little bit, I might say, I'd like to talk about something
Jaimee Dorris (51:20)
Assume
the seat. There, mister
Heidi (51:24)
a lot of times I'll like, tomorrow morning could we could we have some time together? I'd like to talk about something and yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (51:30)
Now that's loaded to me.
I don't want to give any pre warning. We need to talk.
Heidi (51:34)
Yeah. Well and I never used to.
Jaimee Dorris (51:41)
Yeah.
Heidi (51:38)
A lot of times he'll Well, yeah, let's just do it now but
I don't ask f for that time to talk if it's if it's not right for me
Jaimee Dorris (51:46)
Yeah.
Heidi (51:47)
and I don't feel like it's gonna be receptive for him. you get to know each other,
Jaimee Dorris (51:50)
Yeah.
Heidi (51:51)
there's just certain times of the day that are better for some people or whatever and so yeah, I will just say, Hey, could you could you just set aside some time tomorrow or this afternoon or whatever and we do. We have our little seats and it's like he I think if I come and sit down in my spot where and if he's in
He's like, we're talking
Jaimee Dorris (52:07)
Okay. This
is yes, is what happened and I think you're right. Cause if I'm in that spot and especially if like my dog's on my lap and I'm not like on my phone or doing something. I'm just sitting there. That's like shit. She is waiting.
Heidi (52:21)
Yeah, yeah. Petting the dog. shit, yeah,
Yeah. She's she's in the position. She's like ready to go. Okay. my god. This has been s so good.
Jaimee Dorris (52:32)
It's loading. What am I coming into?
Heidi (52:38)
Yeah, yeah.
And actually I'm really proud of him because my husband has actually s said come to me too on a few occasions and said, You th
Jaimee Dorris (52:45)
Yeah.
Heidi (52:45)
I'd like yes. And I'm like, Wow, he is he is growing, he's evolving and I d did not expect the level of it. yeah, he's capable quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (52:58)
Wow. Yeah, because that's something I don't I don't think I mean, very
rarely does my husband like 'cause I think he just processes things differently. and I know women, I mean, obviously
Heidi (53:09)
Yeah, mm.
Jaimee Dorris (53:10)
we have we have a lot more emotions and we we we we have different things, but I I think he just yeah, I think he just processes it differently.
Heidi (53:19)
Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (53:19)
either that or I'm perfect. I mean, I might just
Heidi (53:21)
I was is I was just
gonna ask you, who has to apologize more?
Jaimee Dorris (53:26)
both apologize. I don't I don't think there's there's really you know one person over the other. Of course, you know, maybe it's him, but but he's not he's never sitting in the seat petting the dog waiting
Heidi (53:32)
You just don't want to say it. You're like, God, he might listen to this.
Jaimee Dorris (53:41)
on me to come into the
Heidi (53:45)
It's so funny, yeah. I think my husband That's so funny. Yeah, my husband
Jaimee Dorris (53:46)
I can't imagine him doing that, honestly.
Heidi (53:50)
ap apologizes more, but a lot of times he'd be like, Yep Honey, I'm sorry I fucked up. his favorite line is like I can't guarantee I won't do it again. He goes, I probably will. But I know I messed up and I'm sorry and you know, I I'm just gonna try to do better next time. And I'm like, What? That's like like what you you can't ask for anything more than
Jaimee Dorris (54:06)
Wow. That's an evolved man right there.
Heidi (54:10)
Yeah. You know, that's a really big deal.
Jaimee Dorris (54:12)
I'm sorry. I'm gonna try to do
better. Yeah.
Heidi (54:14)
Yeah, yeah. And that's that's a huge that's that's just it's huge. someone says I'm gonna show I'm gonna try better next time, like we can't be mad at that
You know.
Jaimee Dorris (54:23)
You can't. You can't. Cause typically you're going to get some kind
of defense, you know, not somebody just taking or acknowledging it.
Heidi (54:27)
Yeah, yeah. And and I've gotten plenty you know
Yeah, I've gotten plenty of that too, but but eventually it comes around. We we sit in our spots. We s assume the position. You know, like I don't have a dog or a cat, but you know, my gosh.
Jaimee Dorris (54:41)
My dog is forty, forty-two pounds. Her name is Callie and I call her lap dog. And when I sit
in certain spots in the house, she walks up to me and then she'll put her paws up and she knows she's not allowed on the furniture in general. But if I'm sitting there, she's allowed on my lap. And so we call her lap dog and she's real funny because she's so big, you know, and her legs hang off and stuff. And so yeah, like if I'm in the spot with Callie and I'm just like
You know I need to talk.
Heidi (55:14)
I don't have the dog, I just have the coffee cup. I'm usually like, okay, Actually that's not
Jaimee Dorris (55:17)
The cup that says We need to talk. That's a good idea.
Heidi (55:22)
a bad idea. Jamie.
Jaimee Dorris (55:25)
We need to talk.
Yeah, and I you know what's great about that idea? is that you don't need to say it.
Heidi (55:30)
Exactly. You just you can either place it out in the morning or you could just kinda walk around with it and linger.
Jaimee Dorris (55:36)
Course my husband would
be like, I thought you were just using a coffee cup.
Heidi (55:40)
Haha.
Well, I think guys do need to be more directly like and that's another thing. Everyone has different communication styles and I hate to generalize men and women, but I have found that men need things to be much more direct.
Jaimee Dorris (55:53)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (55:53)
Which is good because I'm more direct myself. So that see again, my ex husband hated that. he didn't like the directness. I was too whatever. my current husband likes that. he's direct, I'm direct. There's no games. There's no well, you really meant this or did you really mean
that no, none of that, you know. Mm mm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jaimee Dorris (56:10)
Yeah. Yeah. We don't play games either. And as you can tell, I'm very direct. I'm very I I just I say what I gotta say and and yeah, I don't I don't beat around the bush. And I am I like
clear, concise communication. I do think that is important for the most part with men is for women to know that just say it. Just say what you need. he can't read your mind. He really can't.
Heidi (56:32)
yeah.
Yeah. obviously I can't speak for, you know, same sex marriages, but I I would love to know the dynamics. I mean and again, generalizations I I don't
Jaimee Dorris (56:42)
Yeah.
Heidi (56:43)
love generalizations, but they do come from somewhere. They're not just made up. I my god, I've said that so many times
Jaimee Dorris (56:45)
Mm-hmm. I always tell my kids that I'm like, stereotypes come from somewhere, you know. And and yeah. It there's a reason we have stereotypes. And it's just to help us,
it's to help us make decisions with the world around us because there's so much variation and it helps us to put things in boxes and make decisions. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Heidi (56:58)
Yeah. Yeah. It helps us navigate for sure, yeah. my
we
I know,
Jaimee Dorris (57:04)
We could talk for a long time, couldn't we?
Heidi (57:06)
I know. it's both terrifying and thrilling.
Jaimee Dorris (57:09)
Well, you're
in the perfect field for yourself. This has been a blast.
Heidi (57:13)
Right.
This is so fun.
I absolutely love this conversation that we've had. I feel like we have given better advice than we knew we had to give
Jaimee Dorris (57:23)
Mm-hmm.
I think we put some good things on this paper. I'm happy with that. I'm like, I don't think there's much more we could add to it.
I think you gotta keep it simple.
Heidi (57:33)
I
I agree, I agree. And I will put your information in the show notes because I I don't know, I feel like, you know, Jamie's marriage advice. I don't know, dating advice, who knows? but this has been really fun. If you like this conversation, definitely show us some love. Give us some comments or whatever, because we'll do it again, right? Yeah. Yeah. Ooh,
Jaimee Dorris (57:52)
Sure. Just give me another topic. I can talk about anything.
Heidi (57:55)
we we could go on for a while, so anyway, thank you again, Jaimee
Jaimee Dorris (57:58)
Thank you for having me. It has been a blast. And now
Dakota needs me to go feed him. well, he's a big doggy. I have three. Three poodle
Heidi (58:04)
Feed your little doggies.
Jaimee Dorris (58:10)
doodle things. They're big. They're very hungry. See you later. Bye.
Heidi (58:12)
they're hungry. on that note I'll talk to you soon. Bye.
Heidi (58:19)
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