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In a world where ads fight for attention and algorithms dictate visibility, one thing still cuts through the noise: storytelling.
In this episode of Is Anything Real in Paid Advertising?, I sit down with MK McGowan, Founder of MK McGowan Studios, to explore how narrative isn’t just marketing — it’s the difference between being ignored and being unforgettable.
We dive into:
✨ Why narrative intelligence matters more than vanity metrics
✨ How to tell stories that scale across platforms and audiences
✨ The art of shaping messages that connect with both logic and emotion
✨ Where AI fits in — and where it never will — when it comes to authentic storytelling
MK has built a career around helping leaders and brands clarify their voice and amplify their message in ways that build trust, impact, and long-term influence. This conversation is a masterclass for anyone trying to rise above the noise and lead with narrative power.
📌 Learn more about MK: https://www.mkmcgowanstudios.com/
📌 Connect with MK: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mkmcgowan/
🎧 Find all episodes of Is Anything Real in Paid Advertising? by searching your favorite podcast app.
Creators and Guests
What is Is Anything Real In Paid Advertising??
What’s actually working in marketing — and what’s just noise?
Hosted by Adam W. Barney, author of Make Your Own Glass Half Full and founder of Scale Smarter, this podcast brings honest, high-energy conversations with the operators, creators, and founders redefining how business growth really works.
From agency leaders and AI innovators to storytellers and strategists, Adam dives into what drives sustainable success — not vanity metrics. Together, they unpack the systems, creativity, and human energy behind $100M+ in advertising experience, real campaigns, and the lessons learned along the way.
🎧 No fluff. No funnels. Just what’s real — and how to scale smarter.
⚡ Ready to install your Energy-Driven Leadership OS?
Book your 20-minute exploration → https://calendly.com/adamwbarney/explorationplugin-20min
[00:05.4]
Welcome back to "Is Anything Real In Paid Advertising?", the show where we sift through the metrics of messaging and messaging madness to find what's actually driving impact. I'm your host, Adam W. Barney, and today's guest brings a rare blend of strategy, soul, and sharp storytelling.
[00:22.9]
Mary Kate McGowan is the founder of MK McGowan Studios where she helps purpose-driven organizations craft content that cuts through, especially in climate, coaching, and justice-centered work. This episode is about more than ad campaigns, it's about narrative power.
[00:40.9]
Welcome, MK. Let's get into it. Yeah, thanks for having me, Adam. Excited to be here. I can't wait. So MK, I know your roots are in journalism, content strategy, and coaching. What pulled you toward founding MK McGowan Studios?
[00:57.4]
Yeah, so I started out as a newspaper reporter and as a lot of people know, the journey between newspaper reporter and content marketing is a well trodden path. So I made that leap a couple years ago, and spent a good chunk of my career, at the intersection of media and marketing.
[01:18.3]
And then I really got into how can we make marketing more effective? You know, instead of presenting all these problems, you know, giving people more context behind the problems, how can we better present solutions? So that's when I really made the jump to working with early stage startups and purpose driven organizations, giving them the narrative structure, the frameworks, you know, kind of like some tips, to better tell people what they do and why they're important and why people should care, when it comes to their solutions.
[01:50.5]
So that is the main driver Behind Mary Kate McGowan Studios, MKM Studios. So, excited to keep continue partnering with these mission driven and purpose driven brands and organizations, you know, just to spread their word and spread all the good work that they're doing.
[02:08.1]
And why do those specific threads matter so much to you? And why now? Why not now? I mean, I think. Sorry, I'm all. No, I get it. That was just a gut reaction. But anyway, I think that finding work that aligns with my personal values is really important to me.
[02:27.9]
I think in the field of marketing, for the longest time I asked my question, I was like, do I even like marketing? Do I think this is worthwhile of my time? Should I be driving people's eyeballs to these e-commerce pages? And there's nothing wrong with that, but I do want to make sure that my work and how I spend my time has a higher purpose and really speaks to what I believe in and not just like adds to the noise, but really cuts through it.
[02:58.0]
To make sure that people can find solutions that they want. And that doesn't mean that products and solutions are bad. That, oh, you know, Amazon is the devil and all that kind of stuff. It just means better connecting with people who need what you're selling. And so you're not targeting, you know, a mom of three, when really you should be targeting, like, a dad who is just also an entrepreneur who also has a podcast and, like, all these other things.
[03:24.1]
Just better speak to your audience and, you know, do what actually needs to be done. Yeah. Can you talk about a project or a campaign that you've worked on that felt like it actually moved the needle in the spaces? That's a great question.
[03:42.6]
So, thinking just over, all the clients I've had, you know, I can't speak directly to, you know, all of them, but, you know, a previous life I managed some publications and digital publications for the association that published the leading international industry efficiency standards for commercial building.
[04:03.2]
So it sounds not sexy, but we all do love our heating and air conditioning systems, especially when they're not working. So, being able to, like, dig into just the nuts and bolts of those systems, but actually how they fit into the intersection of how people interact with buildings, you know, being more intentional with energy usage, being more intentional about, like, what systems you're putting in place and data tracking, that was really interesting.
[04:29.5]
And just being able to tell that story through, different content vehicles. So podcast, magazines, digital publications, newsletters. But one of the times I really saw the needle move is actually kind of a macro trend. So when I started, at that association building, decarbonization was a, like, taboo topic.
[04:49.1]
Like, I brought it up, I pitched it, and they're like, oh, we absolutely cannot write about that. Like, we will get slaughtered. But now, you know, just found out that, like, building a conversation is like, that association's like bread and butter now. So I like to say that I kind of helped move the needle.
[05:06.7]
Just kind of like, shifting from, like, oh, we should definitely not be talking about this to, like, now. When you think of built environment and sustainability work, like, building decarbonization is definitely, like, one of the top trending topics in that space. I love that.
[05:22.2]
I mean, you've worked with coaching clients too, how does narrative shape transformation in that context versus climate or systems work that maybe you do more on the content side? Another great question. So I think on the coaching side, it's all, like, to tell that transformation story.
[05:43.6]
I just said the keyword. It's a story. Someone is looking for help with something, you know, they know where they are, they know where they want to be. It's the in between that's confusing. So, I mean, just think about the traditional hero story.
[06:02.1]
You know, a hero has a problem, he faces a challenge, he meets a guide. So think Frodo, think Gandalf. They embark on a journey together, and then eventually Frodo does throw the ring of destiny and Mountain Doom and Middle Earth is saved.
[06:18.2]
So, you know, it's like, you don't have to rewrite the grand stories of all time, right? Everyone wants to see themselves as the hero. And as coaching, I always advise coaches to think of themselves as those guides leading the way, showing them.
[06:36.4]
It's kind of like these are lessons I've learned or like these are patterns I've been seeing. Let's talk about it. Let's break it down. Help me understand why you're making these choices or like, you know, why you think these are your only choices. So, like, that's like the big nugget. I help coaches see it's not about you, it's about your client.
[06:53.5]
Make them the hero. Yeah, yeah. That's fascinating. And I mean, what advice might you have to folks who are showing up online or who are trying to show up online without selling out their values?
[07:12.6]
Oh, man, welcome to the club. So it's good to have even more of us. So I really think it goes to, you know, really why you're showing up, why you want to show up, and what you want to use your voice to say, you know, you don't have to be the leading voice on climate change or the leading voice on how everyone should be more responsible with AI usage?
[07:42.5]
There's lots of pressure that we tend to put on ourselves, especially people who are feeling like they do need to show up online, especially in a professional space. So give yourself some grace, give yourself some slack. But then also, one of the biggest nuggets I share is kind of take a step back, think about your goals, what you want to do, what you want to accomplish, and then even take a further step back and come up with your own story.
[08:11.5]
So, you know, it's a tried and true messaging framework I use. It's what's your value prop. It could translate to, like, what you believe in, what you want to say, what topics you want to talk about. Then it goes down to, you know, benefits. And this usually translates to, like, a product messaging framework, but it could be like, you know, your three pillars.
[08:30.4]
You know, I believe in, you know, no matter how small an act, you know, you can have a positive effect on the environment by. And then, like, pillar two could be like, you know, showing how small acts of resistance can have a positive impact.
[08:50.7]
And then three could just be, like, how other people are doing it or how, like, you know, it's not all doom and gloom. There's some great work happening out there. Here's some examples. So having that framework and you can kind of bucket your thoughts in that so you don't feel so scattered, because I feel like I personally experienced it.
[09:07.7]
You know, you go to write like a LinkedIn post, or you go to write like, a Substack post, and you're just like, what do I even want to talk about? Why am I even here? I have nothing to say. But it kind of grounds you, and it's kind of like, okay, these are my core pillars and thoughts. We're just gonna write about this.
[09:22.8]
Or, like, you know, it also kind of streamlines your thoughts. So if you're, you know, taking a walk or you're going throughout your day at the grocery store, you can make, like, a quick voice note, or you can, like, make an, you know, type an idea on your phone. It's like, oh, I do want to write a post about XYZ.
[09:38.1]
Like, I was just on a hiking trip and I looked insane, but I was, like, making voice memos to myself about, like, different ideas. People hiking around me. Like, I had to make lots of disclaimers like, you are safe. I just have a burst of creativity.
[09:55.2]
So that's. I hear you loud and clear, though. I, mean, you know, I was walking the dogs last week and, you know, was dealing with the result of having a strained muscle, and I was like, there's something to talk about here. You know what I mean?
[10:10.5]
It was like my lower leg was driving me crazy. I may have been using ChatGPT to try to figure out what was actually going on. And I was like, there's actually something here to talk about or to write about potentially.
[10:26.4]
And that's the great thing I love about content and ideas, is that they will pop up whenever, and it's kind of like you just got to capture them. So, like, that's my biggest. The adage of keeping that small pen and paper or notebook on your bedside stand, because the middle of the night is when the clarity comes, right?
[10:44.7]
Yes, for sure. Sort of frame back a little bit. I know you and I both care deeply about justice. How do you see we can actually use content to challenge power structures and not just perform activism? It's a big challenge, also.
[11:04.3]
It is. And I actually had a conversation with a client about this earlier today. And, you know, I can't speak for everyone. But kind of the end result of that conversation was this idea that we all have more in common than we have differences.
[11:22.7]
So finding those common threads, those commonalities, those opportunities for partnership is a lot easier to convert a non-believer than to just hammer in your point. Regardless of how they're feeling about it.
[11:40.7]
you know, their viewpoints, because, I mean, I have experience, you know, in personal life. Someone in my life would absolutely not say that they live a sustainable life or, you know, they don't believe in some of these, you know, these acts or, you know, just the purpose of it, but seeing how they live, they're just putting another word on what they're doing.
[12:00.1]
But it's totally just framing. So I think it's giving, it's assuming noble intent, that everyone's just trying to do the best they can, and it's creating content that finds those commonalities, but then also adding really concrete examples.
[12:18.1]
So that could be data, that could be customer stories, whatever you want to further bolster your argument. But then also it's asking for, it's asking for partnership, it's asking for feedback, and being open to what people who might not necessarily agree to you are saying is it's a learning opportunity for them, but it's also a learning opportunity for yourself.
[12:41.0]
Right. So I think it's being open and assuming noble intent. I have to say, one of the biggest things I've, you know, integrated into my coaching and the way that I work with clients over the last handful of years is this understanding that even if someone is saying something that you completely disagree with or that you know is incorrect or wrong, having a preset understanding that at least 10% of what they're saying is true can allow you to take that from a more collaborative standpoint.
[13:15.2]
Right. And I think in the world that we live in, especially these days, understanding how to bridge across the fence or across the divide is so critical. And you mentioned grace earlier. Grace is a big part of that. But at least, you know, understanding that if you disagree with someone, at least 10% of what they're saying, true can be interpreted in a couple different manners also, because it's all about what you believe inside yourself, that can be considered a piece of truth.
[13:45.6]
Right. But it brings us closer together, but you know, even more to frame up there. If you see someone, say, who wants to embed justice into their communication strategy, what do you see as the first step they can take?
[14:03.5]
I think it depends on,
[14:10.1]
industry is not the right word for like, but it kind of depends on like, you know, where you want to go, like what arena you're going to play in. Because first and foremost it can't be a flaky belief in this one thing that you want to build a brand on because like, people are going to see straight through that.
[14:30.0]
Right. And that's not going to help anybody. You're just adding to the noise. So it's kind of like for example, for myself it's climate. But even like digging deeper climate tech, and then you dig a little deeper. My sweet spot is the built environment because I believe.
[14:47.1]
And it's also a fact that we spend so much of our lives inside buildings. You know, they need to work for us, and we need to work with them. And it's all about design and systems. But. Right. It's not, it's just not making things up.
[15:02.4]
You have to have facts that back up your claims. You can't just throw things out. You can't just be willy nilly about it. The technical term, but then it goes back to like your core beliefs; this is the hill I will die on.
[15:18.8]
Right? Because I feel like most people respect you for having a viewpoint and being willing to stand behind it. Like the biggest thing, and I hate to use this word, but you have to be authentic in your beliefs. And you have to be able to stand behind it when someone challenges you.
[15:34.1]
You have to, you know, have great reasons and be able to articulate. Oh my gosh, articulate. Well, that was ironic. Articulate those values in your mission very clearly. So, like that's the big thing. Don't do it just to do it, and walk the talk.
[15:52.4]
So those are the main things for me. Part of it, I guess is like, you know...I coach a lot of emerging and executive leaders on using Ikigai, the Japanese concept, for a reason for being, to get to the center of what drives them at an individual level.
[16:09.0]
If we could figure out a way to do a corporate version of Ikigai for a company, that could be a way that leads towards greater justice. That's a totally riff, off the cuff idea. Love that. We should work on that. Yeah, let's do it.
[16:25.4]
Awesome. All right, MK; this was such a grounding, energizing conversation. You know, you've reminded us all here, I think, that storytelling isn't fluff. It's about the force that comes into play. And that whether you're, you know, shaping a founder's journey or a climate campaign, the real stories are what always helps; we need to rise to the surface, basically.
[16:48.4]
MK, where can people connect with you and learn more about your work? Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn. So it's MK, the initials, and then McGowan, McGowan. And then my website is mkmcgowanstudios.com and there's links to like book a call if you have any questions.
[17:06.7]
Happy to hear any feedback, open to anyone's perceptions on this episode. Happy to chat about them. Very cool. And then, I guess to sort of wrap up MK, for the mission-driven founders feeling overwhelmed by the noise, what's your one piece of real deal advice that you would give to them?
[17:26.0]
Yeah, I would say get out of your head and get your thoughts down on paper, and then let them marinate a little bit, and then use that messaging framework I talked about earlier. It just helps organize your thoughts and it makes you. It frees up your brain space to have better ideas.
[17:42.1]
So just get out of your head, write it down. That's beautiful, MK. Thank you. All right, well, thanks for tuning into "Is Anything Real in Paid Advertising?", the show where we find the signal behind the noise. I'm Adam W. Barney. Subscribe, leave a review, and check the show notes for more.
[18:00.1]
Thank you, MK. Thank you.