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Product Marketing Adventures is the only PMM show that goes beyond theory and into the real execution of product marketing. In each episode, experienced product marketers co-host two segments of the show: first a case study example of their work, followed by a messaging critique of companies we admire. Listeners enjoy a fun conversation packed with practical guidance to leverage in your product marketing career.
Elle: Launching into a new
ideal customer profile is
one of the most exciting and
nerve wracking challenges
in product marketing.
it's like being the star
player on the team and then
suddenly getting traded to
a brand new sports league.
The rules are different, the
competition is different,
and the fans don't even
know your name yet.
You can't rely on old plays.
You've got to earn trust from
scratch, prove you understand
their pain points, and show
you belong in their world.
When you nail it, you
unlock an entirely
new path to growth.
When you don't, you risk
getting sidelined before
the game even starts.
If you find yourself on that
journey, you need an expert
to show you how it's done.
With that, it is my pleasure
to have Natalie Marco Tulio
on the show, a rising star in
product marketing at Nevada.
She is a natural when it
comes to product marketing.
Let me tell you why.
Natalie is a two time
solo marketer for early
stage SaaS startups.
She's someone who's nailed it
when it comes to wearing every
hat and still deliver results.
And her entrepreneurial spirit
started way before tech.
Back in college.
She actually ran
businesses renting out
laptops to students whose
computers had crashed.
Talk about finding a
scrappy real world solution.
Oh, and just for funsies,
Natalie actually grew up in
England and had an English
accent until she was about
13 years old, though these
days, that Northeast Accent
has officially taken over.
Natalie, it's amazing
to have you on the show.
Natalie: Thanks so
much for having me.
Yeah.
Now that we've said that,
people are gonna be like,
oh, we're gonna hear
a fun English accent.
No, it's all gone.
I live in New York now.
It's not a pretty, it's
a harsh accent, so sorry.
Elle: I don't even hear
the northeast part,
so I think we're good.
Like no accent
distractions here.
Natalie: Perfect.
Elle: So let's set the stage
for today's conversation.
for those listeners who
maybe aren't familiar with
Nova, what is it and what
problem are you solving?
Natalie: Yeah, I am gonna
start with the problem.
It's kind of like try before
you buy, but for software, if
you think about buying like
a car, you would always go
in person, see it beforehand,
get to touch and feel it.
And for the longest time
in SaaS software, it was
kind of like, Oh you can't
see this thing until maybe
like three zoom calls.
So we
Elle: Oh gosh.
Natalie: Yeah, as we, we've
all probably been there.
so Nevada creates like
shareable product experiences
that you could either put on
your website or send directly
to prospects or customers
so they can get hands on
earlier in the buyer journey.
Elle: Amazing.
So like that, a little bit
beyond a demo experience,
which I feel like I've been
seeing a lot these days.
and I've been so
excited about everything
that Nevada is doing.
So, it'll be really fun
to unpack this case study.
Um, with that, the first
segment of our show is
that case study segment.
and today we're gonna talk
about how you launched a
new product into a new ICP.
So take us back to.
Pre-launch, and I think
the product was called
Launchpad, if I remember
correctly from our, um, prep
conversation for this episode.
Uh, so tell us, Natalie,
what was going on at
Nevada when you made that,
focus on that new ICP.
Natalie: Yeah, so kind of
as you, you know, laid up,
which I'm kind of continuing
with the sports metaphor,
so we'll say, we needed
to break into a new ICP.
and for us it was
solution engineering.
So we often sell the
marketers, product marketers,
hopefully a few of you have
heard of Nevada before.
But this was kind of an
entirely, I wouldn't say
entirely new persona.
We had plenty of solution
engineers who had
previously used Nevada,
but this was a very custom
made solution for them.
And I'd say because we had
been spending so much effort
in the past on marketing,
product marketing, where
the goal was just like more
awareness for sales Andes
that like, yes, Nevada has
a custom solution for you.
Elle: Amazing.
Okay.
So as you were pursuing
this new, sales engineering
persona, I guess like walk us
through the actual, like case
study itself in this story.
really help us set us up here.
what was the situation
you found yourself in?
What was the task at hand and
how did you pursue that task?
I.
Natalie: Yeah, so for about
like nine months behind
the scenes, we basically
been working on this
product and the situation
was we had to get it now
in front of our new ICP.
We hadn't publicly
launched it yet.
We had beta users and
we were, you know, doing
some like early testing,
but really hadn't done
that big splashy launch.
So that's what I
was prepping for.
Really the task was
just like, make both
our customers and the.
A little bit larger solution
engineering audience, but
mostly we were focused on
customers for this launch.
Aware that we now had this
new product line and that
we serve this s se use case.
As far as like what did we do?
It was a lot of.
Taking our existing customer
base segmenting out by like,
who would be a good fit for
this product versus not.
How can we get in front of
them craft communication
and just like get excitement
about this idea of, again,
not just like the product,
but the overall story.
'cause what I didn't wanna do
was just be like, Hey look,
we have this new product,
but kind of had something
like memorable behind it,
which, we'll, we'll get a
little more to this story.
Elle: Yeah, no.
Okay.
So that's really helpful.
And I feel like I personally
have been in the situation
where I didn't really know
what I was doing, frankly,
and I just went out and
be like, okay, here's
the, you know, here's my
typical bill of materials.
Let's go launch the product.
And it's kind of
like a checklist.
Done, done, done, done.
and.
Over time, if you fall
into that, you know,
cookie cutter approach, you
sometimes you can't really
achieve the outcome that you
really wanted to achieve.
So curious from your
perspective, like, or
just given your experience
with this launch where it
sounds like you were really
put a lot more effort
into the storytelling.
before we dive into the part,
the exciting part where we
turn this case study into
a playbook for pmms, what
kind of results did you see
once you took a special,
that special approach?
Natalie: Yeah, so once we've
actually ran the integrated
campaign, and we'll go over
what channels we used and
all that in a bit, we ended
up seeing as far as email
opens, email was a major
communication channel.
Wow.
A 57% open rate.
We also used.
A little meta, but we used
interactive demos as a way
to show off the new feature
to our audience, and we saw
that 30% of the people we sent
it to engaged with the demo.
So you can just think of that
as like 30% of that target
audience we sent to actually
got hands-on with our product
in some way with the new
Elle: That is
really impressive.
I feel like that kind of
penetration rate is not super
common in this SaaS world.
It's hard to compete to get
at to just to get eyeballs,
let alone actually take action
to engage with your product.
Natalie: A hundred percent.
And I think part of it
was 'cause we, you know,
met buyers a little
more where we were at.
It's not like we pushed them
just to see a live demo.
It was something they
could do on their own time.
One fun part of this was
that we actually had a Slack
channel, so every time a
customer went through a demo,
and especially if they're
highly engaged, we could see,
so it was also just like a fun
way to celebrate internally.
Like, oh, yes, customers
are going through it.
They're, they're
showing interest.
Elle: That's awesome.
Okay, so here you are, you're
launching into a new ICP.
You've got this brand new
product specifically built
for this new ICP, and you
took this special segmentation
approach where, you built
this message and story
uniquely for that audience,
and you had a ton of, I'll
say like, activities related
to that integrated campaign.
that landed you this
incredible, you know,
30% engagement rate.
So I wanna get tactical
now, and let's say that
I'm a PMM, who, I'm in
a similar situation.
I've got this new
product for a new ICP.
Where do I start?
What's step one?
Natalie: Yeah, so step
one for me was really
doing the research, and
this is something I.
had fell short in
other launches.
I just went straight
into the channels.
But for this one, we again
mentioned, wanted to figure
out what that story was.
But so step one was talking
to our internal subject
matter expert who happened
to actually be our founder.
It worked out really
well because he actually
used to be an se.
So a lot of what I was
asking about was like,
why did we create Nevada?
What problem were you trying
to solve for yourself?
So don't always get
that lucky, but that
was cool for this one.
And then also talking, and for
me it was more listening to
stories or other team members
were the ones actually doing
the interviews, but hearing
from our customers, like,
what was this pain point
that we were trying to solve?
You know what, especially
se like what is your
day-to-day like?
What pain points
do you experience?
Really just getting a little
bit more in the mind of the
audience before figuring out
what we're gonna say to them.
Elle: Perfect.
Okay, so you took the time
to, abstract all the really
great information from
the SMEs or the, the SME
subject matter experts.
I love doing that too, right?
I've done that certainly with
the product and I've been at,
uh, the product team and I've
been at smaller companies and
sometimes it is the founder
that you're interviewing.
So I love that the
story building is.
Part of, well story building,
but actually like getting the
information to build the story
is very early in the process.
So I have a question for you
about how you look at those
kind of interviews, right?
When you're interviewing
internal subject matter
experts versus like a
customer, for example,
or someone from your ICP.
I guess, what are you, when
you evaluate those different
sources to contribute to your
like research gathering, how
do you see the difference
between those groups, those
two groups, and what kind of
information are you hoping to
get from your internal SMEs
versus like your actual ICP?
Natalie: I think from the ICP.
It's really important
to get the, like what is
your current state and
why is that frustrating?
'cause it can be really
tempting to wanna start
pitching the product or
like putting your product
into their day to day.
But what you really wanna
hear right now, like what
is, what is maybe working
well and what isn't working?
So then when you, you go
to write messaging, which
is the next step, the part
where it's like, okay,
what is their current state
and why does that suck?
Which is literally part of
our messaging framework.
We have direct quotes
from customers.
You can hear their current
state versus the subject
matter experts and like
our product team, that was
a lot more okay then what
did we build specifically
to solve that and how is
it different than anything
else in the market?
So.
Elle: I love that as you were
doing that research, you had
specific sources that you were
going to help you fill in the
information you needed as part
of your messaging framework.
basically what I'm hearing
is, and it's, I love that
you do this because not
all pmms do it, and it's so
critical finding the best
alternative to the current.
to your product to solve the
current pain point, right?
Like, what is the ICP, what
is the customer currently
doing to solve this pain,
and why does that suck?
Like Why is it not working?
What are the,
pitfalls of that?
And then on the other
side, you have the product
team to come in and say,
this is why you should be
pursuing this path instead.
Or, you know,
AKA, our product.
so I love that.
Okay.
So once you have that
foundation with that
great information that
will contribute to the
story, what comes next?
What?
Step two, I think you
mentioned already messaging.
Natalie: Yes, messaging
framework, and hopefully
if you recorded those
customer interviews and SME
conversations, you can upload
all that into a system.
I mean, I use a
tool called Get.
Eyes and as well as do
a lot of editing, but
that means you don't have
to start from scratch
with the messaging too.
So we have a two
tables that we outline.
One is more persona based.
So for every single
persona, like who is the
user, who is the champion,
who is, you know, who's
made the decision maker?
Trying to get that
full buyer's circle and
figuring out why is this
product relevant for them?
Again, what are
they current doing?
Why does that not work?
How do we solve that?
And then also more like
use case specific messaging
of, okay, this buyer
identifies this pain point.
How do we solve it?
And really using direct
quotes or insights from
those conversations, plug and
playing it into these tables,
and then going and tweaking,
getting feedback from other,
again, from the internal
MA subject matter expert
sales, CS, to make sure it's
like this is the messaging.
we all agree on
are aligned on.
Elle: Yes.
Okay.
So, by the way, I love
Get Wise, huge shout out.
I feel like I can't tell
enough people about that
product and that tool.
It's so helpful.
So, TLDR, if you haven't
heard of Get Wise, it's
basically a way that you can
get immediate feedback on
your messaging or streamline
research to contribute to
your messaging from real ICPs.
Everyone's gotta
go check it out.
I was not paid for that,
by the way, although they
were a sponsor of mine
earlier on in this product,
marketing podcast journey.
But anyway, back to the show.
So, after you build out
that messaging, and I love
that you're doing it by
the, um, including inclusive
of the entire buyer team.
That's another thing that I
don't see a lot of pmms doing.
Which is surprising because
all of those individual
members, right, you mentioned
the champion, the influencer,
the decision maker, they all,
take part in shaping whether
or not your product actually
makes it in the market.
so after you do that and you
have this brilliant, beautiful
messaging doc, how do you
make sure, like how do you
socialize it with the rest
of your org and make sure
that it actually gets used by
like marketing, stakeholders,
salespeople, et cetera.
Natalie: So important
'cause it's so easy to just
create this doc and it lives
and dives somewhere in a
Google drive.
Uh, I also have to give
one more shout out for
the messaging framework.
I did work with Eric Holland
and Mojo PMM, if anyone's seen
Elle: Oh, we love Eric Collin.
Natalie: I know two like
great shout outs here.
And again, it was not
either, but wanna give
credit where credit is due.
'cause I'm a. As you mentioned
earlier in my product
marketing career, I did not
come without this myself.
But step three was really
creating an enablement
doc that everyone from
the team can access and
see all this messaging.
'cause we all agreed,
we all aligned, and the
enablement doc included
everything from what is the
story we're trying to tell.
And that was actually the
first thing you see to make it
clear that like this launch is
not just about the features,
it is about this story.
And for us.
We went back to our founder
origin story and really told
their story of why did they
first create Nevada as ses.
It doesn't always work out
that way that you can do a
founder origin story, but
if you've done the research
by interviewing your subject
matter experts and customers,
a story should appear.
That's a larger narrative.
So then we had this story.
Who is this product for?
We actually include
who is it not for?
To make it clear, this is
a more targeted product.
All the messaging,
example, resources, quotes
from customers, which
again, we could pull from
the interviews we did.
And then of course for us,
we had like product content,
which is interactive demos,
so you could actually see
the feature and then turn
this entire messaging doc
into A GPT that people
could just chat with instead
of having to read it all.
They didn't wanna read.
Elle: I love that.
I think that is so creative.
I, I think that that is a
very new emerging trend, and
approach in product marketing.
so I have so many
questions about this, that
custom GPT is so clever.
So, tell me a little
bit more about that.
how do you decide when
a custom GPT is worth
building for a new launch?
Or like, is it something that
you think now is standard
and all pmms should be doing?
just talk a little
bit more about that.
Natalie: For us, it's
gonna become standard for
every tier one launch.
And so that's anything
that's like external beyond
our customer promotion,
like prospect and audience
promotion is tier one launch.
And part of that's because
honestly, like after doing
it, it was just so much
easier than telling everyone
to read a Giant Doc.
It's also pretty simple.
Once you create one, all
you have to do is clone
it and then create that
enablement doc and insert
it into the next one.
So I probably am gonna do it.
Yeah.
Like I said, every launch,
this was the first time
I tried it and I think
after seeing both employees
reactions and also we like
looped in some external
help for promotion, they
were like, oh, this is
so much better than just
having to read the Long Doc.
Elle: Yes.
Okay.
So what was that feedback
the reaction from
everybody in the company?
Natalie: Yeah, mostly
just heard about how
helpful it is that they
would wanna use it again.
But I,
think the biggest thing
wasn't actually the feedback
I heard, but saw, I saw that
the emails we were writing,
the messaging, which is much
more on brand than if I didn't
give them that resource.
Elle: wow.
Natalie: Even if you give them
a big enablement doc, that's
still a lot to parse through
versus if you're chatting,
it's just gonna pull from
that messaging off the bat.
So that was really the
biggest unlock for me.
It's like, oh, I am not
gonna have to spend as much
time editing emails down
the line for other team
members because they have
a good source to pull from
messaging to begin with.
Elle: Wait a minute, so
I'm just playing this
out here and you tell me
if I'm wrong about this.
But say I'm a salesperson
who is using your custom GPT
for this new product launch
and I want to put together
some, you know, an email
series for some accounts,
a handful of accounts that
I want to, you know, blast
out to let 'em know that
we got this new product.
Can I use your custom GPT to
write the email templates?
Natalie: Sort of, I'm
gonna give a caveat.
You could use it to help get
some messaging for what you
should put in your emails.
this GPT was more around
internal Enablement.
I actually wouldn't recommend
someone tries to write an
entire email cadence with it.
'cause what I found
with GPTs is if you give
it too many tasks, it
starts getting worse.
I create a specific GPT
for different tasks.
like if you are writing a
email cadence for, let's
say an SE leader versus
an SE manager, maybe you'd
ask it, what PA value
points should I bring up
in this email cadence?
That's what it would be
really good for actually
writing out the emails.
I didn't set up the GPT to do
that 'cause I knew if I gave
it too many things to do.
Everything, it would just
start getting a little
worse at, I would recommend
almost creating a different
GPT just for email writing.
Elle: Hmm.
Okay.
That's really helpful.
I love that.
Alright, so maybe we'll
start to see rather than big,
heavy, complex, multi-page,
you know, product guides,
internal product guides, um,
obnoxious hundred slide decks.
Maybe we'll just see, hey,
here's a few custom gpt.
Like, here's the enablement
one, here's the go to market
one, like et cetera, you know?
I love that.
How interesting.
Okay, so you've got the
messaging down, you've
got the enablement down.
What's next?
Natalie: So after
that, then I.
think we can finally start
getting into like segmentation
channels, just getting a
little more tactical because
this was all the prep work.
Now that we have all this
messaging, it's a lot easier
to spin up everything else.
So next step was definitely
creating those different
segments of who did we wanna
target and what messaging did
we wanna go after with them.
And I worked really closely
with our head of C Cs for this
one because we were mostly
targeting existing customers.
Also worked with our sales
team who had been working
some of these deals.
Again, our founder, who's kind
of our internal subject matter
expert, and we pulled in
everything from like industry
technographics company
growth signals, like are they
hiring sales and built out
one massive clay table to
be like, okay, this is who
we really wanna go after.
This is our tier
one target account.
Elle: Okay, awesome.
you've mentioned a few signals
I'll say already that you
used, so talk to me a little,
and you mentioned that you
worked with your customer
success, team as well.
So, but talk to me a
little bit more about the
segmentation and, you know,
how did you approach that?
I think that's an area where
pmms get caught up and,
and can struggle a bit.
Natalie: It really was
sitting down with my
head of cs, like we kinda
just had working session
together and saying, okay.
What customers have we
already seen are good fits?
And then what qualities
do they have that we
would wanna replicate?
And so that's where, you
know, you get into signals
like Technographics or
Firmographics, for example,
for this product, we found
that it tended to be more
larger, more multi-product
organizations that saw value.
'cause those were the ones
that tended to have se.
If you didn't have an SE
team, you're not probably
experiencing much as the
pain of them being on a
bunch of repetitive calls.
So we kind of had to work
backwards and say, okay,
these are the customers
that we've already
identified as good fits.
This is why.
How do we sort of
diagnose that and then
make it repeatable?
Which often was things like,
okay, if they're hiring sales
and ESS that, that probably
means it's a pain point.
Again, if they're of
so specific industries,
we're more likely to have
multiple product lines.
Or it even came down to
Technographics, like if they
use this existing product,
they actually might not be
a good fit 'cause they maybe
already solved this problem.
Elle: Yeah.
And then for the segmentation
and trying to identify
those qualities and those
attributes, it sounds like
it was a mix of qualitative
and quantitative signals.
as you're developing out the
various, the segments, those
signals like definitive?
Right.
Whereas.
Each thing, you could
either say like, include
in some kind of range as
in like a quantitative,
example or a yes no, kind
of a definitive thing.
Like did you have any
signals that were like,
I don't know, like a gray
area, just out of curiosity.
Yeah, we did do some scoring,
so like one through five.
So if they had,
let's say they were.
I think what we did is every
single one of those signals
I mentioned was either a yes
no, but then it got a score
out of five, depending on how
many of those signals it has.
So like a five outta five,
you hit it across the board.
You were the right industry.
You didn't use other, like
you hadn't solved this
with other technology.
You were in the right,
company size and you
clearly were growing,
and then add that all up.
And then a four out of
five would be like, you hit
four of those, obviously
and keep going down.
There was a little bit
of qualitative too.
Like we did have some accounts
where sales knew were good
fit, so maybe they were
working and got moved up to
tier A. So there was a little
of that manipulation, but for
the most part, scoring the
different signals and then
having one overall score.
Okay.
So I'm really curious
about how the output
of what the output of
this looked like, right?
Like once you had all that
great, you know, segmentation
analysis done, then what
happens in step five?
Natalie: So definitely
a monster Google
sheet was the outcome.
I did do that first
level of scoring in clay.
So and, and in clay you can
actually even set on your
tables, you can set the
concept of like, this is a
one if it has this, and then
add up all the different
ones to get a final score.
And then we turn that into
a giant monster sheet.
Yes.
Of all of our
cohorts of customers.
And in that we even
included, we like linked
back to the enablement
doc and would include.
Okay, for this user, this is
how we communicate with them.
This is the offer we're
going to give them.
Right?
Like a tier one account.
Elle: it.
Natalie: It was so helpful
'cause also down the line then
when other members of the team
had maybe someone come inbound
when we did this launch, we
could look at the tiers and
say, oh, they're tier one.
Let.
Send them right to our
AE who's been working
on this, let's make sure
that like we're getting
them in a call versus, oh,
they're tier D. Maybe let's
qualify them a little more.
Obviously we're happy to
have a call with them and
talk, but they might need a
little more of the upfront
qualification because from our
initial signals, they didn't
seem as much of a good fit and
it wasn't everyone, I don't
know, like scrambling when
someone came inbound being
like, what do we do here?
We had a whole
process in play.
Elle: I love that.
Okay, so then once you,
so you talked a little bit
about that, um, spreadsheet
or a table, if you will,
like, well, the analysis,
but then somewhere out of
that came the table where
you were matching, okay,
this is the kind of content
and the kind of messaging
that we're gonna give to
these tiers of segmentation.
So talk to me about
then, like what did
that content look like?
Is that the fun
part with step five?
Natalie: Yes, exactly.
That's the fun part.
We figured out the
messaging, we figured out
who we're going to send it.
to.
Then we figured out
what different offers.
Did we wanna send each
of those tiers, and that
was the product content.
Again, not surprising
for us, we used a lot of
interactive demos, but we
actually created two different
versions depending on the.
Fit and depending on the
tier, so tier A and B would
get a more personalized
one-to-one demo, which we
actually, this is gonna be
so meta, but that's kind of
what the new product was,
creating more personal.
It's sometimes explaining
NVA while using Nevada it,
it gets a little complex,
but essentially we use
launchpad to create those
very one-to-one custom
demos for those top tiers.
And then for everyone else,
we sent a more high level
overview that was made
with our existing Nevada
product because again, they
probably didn't resonate
with the pain points as much.
We didn't wanna get into
like the details and the
weeds of the product,
like that one-to-one demo.
We more just wanted to
say overarching, this is
what it is, and if you are
interested in learning more,
then we could follow up
with the more detailed demo.
Elle: Yeah.
Well, it sounds like based
on the way that you did your
segmentation, maybe that
more personalized approach
there, I'm guessing with.
Maybe more of a readiness
for the product too.
You know, it sounded like
you mentioned like the
number of pain points that
they were experiencing.
and that personalized step,
man, it just, it goes,
it's the cherry on top.
It goes a long way.
Okay, so what happens next
then, after you delivered
this beautiful set of,
you know, product specific
content, what does that launch
actually then look like?
Natalie: Yeah, so Launch, I
mean, it honestly was like
a series of, again, I think
this was in a Notion Doc and
not in a Google Sheet, but
just of a bunch of different
dates and channels, like?
this was the actual go
time tactical part of it.
Uh, to start, it started
with a LinkedIn campaign,
so we actually wanted to
like tease a little bit
of the product launch
coming before we sent any
Elle: Ooh, you did the tease.
Oh, I love that.
Okay.
Natalie: I love the tease.
I do the tease in almost
every campaign because,
especially since the goal
was telling the story.
We just wanted to get the
story out there so when a
customer does get an email
that says, you know, Nevada
just launched launchpad.
I promise we had better
messaging than that,
but they're familiar
with that term.
They're like, Oh, I maybe
saw something on LinkedIn
mentioning Launchpad, again,
can't say every single one of
our customers also followers.
Our LinkedIn or some of
our, we, we also worked
with some of our advisors
on it, but hopefully just
warming up a little bit and
we did actually see some
customers come inbound just
from the LinkedIn portion.
which was awesome.
Like an early, early signal.
Okay.
This is interesting then was
the mass email communication,
which was, as I mentioned,
the different tiers.
So tier A and B would
get more personalized.
Email communication, tier A
actually got communication
directly from our CEO, very
personalized messaging.
Tier B got more still
personalized, but
not same that level.
And then C tier, C through
E, we just got a email
and as part of like a
customer newsletter.
'cause we really figured
C through E I'm trying to
remember myself, how many,
Elle: There's so many tears,
Natalie: how many years?
Honestly, I think we may
have overcomplicated it a
little bit, if that was any
advice I'd have to other
pmms, but I would rather have
overcomplicated it for the
first time around than under.
Um, but yes, C through
E got just in a customer
newsletter that we send
out once a month and the
whole newsletter was around
this new product launch.
So really it was just go time
sending all of these emails.
We also had some
in-app communication.
We ended up doing a
webinar, but really
the main focus was like
LinkedIn and email for this.
Elle: Yeah.
Okay.
So you built momentum with the
tees, and then you had, so you
had the buildup, and then you
had the launch and you had the
personalized touch, and then
you continued to have, you
know, webinars and features.
So just, do you still have
continued, I guess, like
rolling thunder plans for that
particular product, following
the launch, or did you.
Natalie: Right now we're
definitely trying to.
Think of it more of
like, okay, now long
term, how can we get in
front of this audience?
So not just focus on launching
this product anymore, but
we've done things like
attend conferences for this
audience where we've done
partnerships with other
players in the space, hosting
webinars and co content.
So definitely thinking
long term, how can we get
in front of them more?
But it doesn't have to
just be like around the
specific product launch now.
Elle: Got it.
Yeah.
Maybe rallying a bit around
the problem, um, and the
storytelling bit too.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Okay.
So just to recap for our
listeners, 'cause you
gave so much Great, um, so
many great tips in walking
through your playbook.
You had the first step and
that's where you were talking
to internal SMEs and customers
about building the story.
and then too was writing
the messaging by persona.
And I love that you did it.
For the whole buyer team.
and then step three was the
enablement with the custom
GPT, which is so clever.
Um, step four, that was
the segmentation and
the deep analysis that
you did and partnering
with customer success.
And then step five is the fun
part or kind of the fun part.
Part of the fun part.
It's all fun.
It's product marketing.
is that product
specific content.
And then step six is the
actual launch, which you did a
phased launch approach, which.
I love the, like teases.
I don't see that too
often, but when I do,
it's so effective.
I am, did I get
everything right?
What did I miss?
Natalie: No, you got it all.
It was a lot of steps.
Uh, I got confused along
the way myself sometimes,
and I was organizing.
But now that we've done
this, I will never go back
to not having these steps
'cause it, even though it
seemed like a lot of work
upfront, it made the step
five and six, like actually
creating the content and
sending it out so much faster.
'cause we were all aligned
from the beginning.
Elle: And talk a little bit
more about how this approach
was different from previous
launches that you've led.
Natalie: I'd say previous
launches, I almost
started at like step four.
I started with channels and
I started with, okay, how
are we gonna tactically go
after people and skipped all
Elle: Oh my gosh.
I think that is so common
in product marketing,
especially with, um, and
I hate to say this like
veteran pmms who have like,
been there, done that.
And especially, especially,
especially with pmms
who've been in one
market for a long time.
And I say that because
they think they know the
space really well and they
start to lean more into
like preexisting knowledge
and they're just like.
Making calls on their
gut versus taking time
to interview the SMEs, to
talk to customers, to do
the messaging by persona.
So I think that's,
yeah, totally accurate.
Um, anything else to add
to kind of like, I guess
the differences between
your two approaches?
Natalie: The level of
segmentation was something
I just hadn't done before.
Again, maybe.
Overdid it this time, but I
do think it was such a good
framework for us when we have
a product that especially
not as universally applicable
to all of our customers,
how we can segment it out.
Elle: Yeah, I don't know.
I think doing that level
of analysis for a new
ICP totally merits, you
know, that deep analysis.
Um, 'cause it's new, it's
a new target audience
for you, so it makes
perfect sense to me.
okay.
Last question that I have for
you on this topic, Natalie,
what is one piece of advice
that you would have for A
PMM who is pursuing a new
ICP with a new product?
Natalie: I think, I mean, kind
of going back to doing those
first steps, really, if you
have customers that you can.
Talk to and internal
subject matter experts.
And one thing I didn't
mention is we had been
working on this product
about nine months before
we actually launched it,
That means that I had already
some customers using it.
I, I had some people to talk
to about their experience.
I had some of those who we
assumed were gonna be good
ICP fits, and we, we almost
did some testing before
the launch and as much as
possible, I'm such a fan.
I know there's always the
conversation of like, the
release date does not have
to be the launch, but when
you get some beta feedback,
when you can get that
information before then you
have the messaging and the
customers you can interview.
That's really the phase
one of this launch.
Elle: Yeah, you cannot
skip those steps.
They're, so, I, I found,
have found that those early
steps that you mentioned
lead to better messaging,
better storytelling, more
strategic steps or, or,
um, plan for your launch.
So.
I love it.
Thank you, Natalie, for
walking us through the case
study segment of our show.
Um, okay, now it's time to
switch gears a little bit
and move on to the second
segment of our show, which
is the messaging critique.
this is where we as product
marketing experts get to
analyze real world messaging.
And the fun part is, Natalie,
as my guest, you get to
choose the company that we
are going to look at today.
Um, before we get started.
Some quick ground rules.
once you reveal the company
that we're gonna look at,
you are going to tell me
something that you're loving
about the messaging, what's
working, what's making
the product stand out.
then you're gonna share
something you wish the PMM
would've done differently.
Maybe it's make the messaging
more clear or stronger.
Whatever that may be.
And then finally, we're
gonna do a fun, creative
brainstorm on how this PMM
can take it to the next level.
Maybe it's consider new
ICPs, maybe it's, do a
research project, a creative
campaign, whatever it may be.
Um, this is all about learning
and refining our craft.
No negativity, just
a constructive,
helpful critique.
So without further
ado, let's get started.
All right.
What is the company that
we're gonna look at today?
Natalie: Okay.
The company we're gonna look
at is called Loop and Tie.
I chose them because we
actually used them as
part of this campaign.
There was a gifting portion
at some point, and I, I am
giving away a little bit
of why I love them, but
basically they're a gifting
platform focused on like
sustainable gifts and not
just like giving you stuff
that you're gonna throw out.
Elle: I love, um, I'm just
pulling up their website,
uh, for the first time.
So it's l and tie.com
for anyone who wants
to follow along.
and I like that you
can pick your own gift.
There's nothing that's,
I mean, yes, I love
some of the, like, swag.
I'm, I totally fall forward
all the time, but like.
I don't need another
pair of branded socks.
Like,
so okay.
Tell me a little bit
more about like, what
does loop and tie do?
I, you mentioned gifting.
who's their target audience,
that kind of stuff.
Natalie: Their target
audience is both.
From my understanding, HR
managers, 'cause you can
do employee gifting or
just anyone responsible
for employee gifting,
but also marketers, maybe
field or event marketers
who are sending gifts to
customers and what they do,
exactly what you described.
They just let you send
custom curations of again,
really quality gifts too.
That's another point.
Like everything they put,
I'm like, I want that.
I want that like.
And generally, like ethically
sourced, they try to, you
know, really put a pay
attention to who they're
serving up, and then the
recipient gets to choose
what the gift they want, or
they can donate the money
if they don't want anything.
Elle: Awesome.
Okay, so now walk us through
their messaging, at least
based on what you can tell
from looking at their website
Natalie: So it seems like a
lot of their messaging, and
again, what I really like is
they do stress, the kind of
like sustainability aspect.
The part, the fact that
they are working with small
businesses, the fact that it's
kind of a better experience
for everyone because.
You get to choose what
you want as the gift
person giving a gift.
I don't have to worry
about selecting the
one perfect thing.
And then also there is less
waste in the environment,
which like one thing that's
so cool is this messaging
on their website that
says Better for everyone.
They call out like how many
trees they planted, small
businesses supported carbon
sequestered, just like so
clear front that they, they
are actually mission driven.
I think a lot of tech
companies pretend
to be mission driven
and it's such a good example
of one that really is.
Elle: I know.
Okay, so when I'm on their
website, the very top,
above the fold, as you
will like headline says,
gifting done differently,
deliver intentional
choice-based gift experiences
in just three steps.
And then when I scroll down,
that's what I see the like
better for gift receivers and.
Um, as I keep scrolling,
I love the little, the
animation that they did.
I mean, not product marketing,
but you know, call out to
their, um, just the marketing
creative team who I think
did, did a really great job
with better for, as you scroll
it goes, gift receivers.
And then as you keep
scrolling, it'll say Better
for gift givers, and they'll
say Better for everyone.
I thought that was a really
fun, creative thing, so, okay.
I'm getting into what I think,
what do you think, what's,
um, you know, working well or,
and what do you think the PMM
could have done differently?
Natalie: Exactly what you
call that I think works well.
And one thing that I almost
think works well but could
also be improved upon is they
actually let you get right
into the collections, which
I think is awesome, right?
Like if you're a gifting
company, I wanna see the gifts
that I can give, and they
have it both in the NAB bar.
And then if you go beyond that
section you were describing
where it says gifts for
everyone on your list, you can
actually click in and start
seeing some of the sample
collections they've curated.
I think the one thing that
was a bit for me is I used
the product so when I clicked
in, I instantly recognized
I was in the product.
It almost let me like
replicate how I used it,
but I can imagine as a first
time, the visitor to the
website, you might be a little
confused what's happening.
They're basically like
just sending you right into
their product with not a
lot of guidance and maybe
my bias as someone who like
thinks a lot about product
experiences within directive
demos, but I think the myth
would be that they don't
really explain exactly
what's going on or what these
different collections are.
Elle: Yeah, absolutely.
What I think and, um,
just if so, just a little
bit of like background.
Um, I am a gift giver.
Like I love gifting to people.
not that it's like, it's
not, it's one of my love
languages, I would say, but
I truly get joy out of giving
someone a meaningful gift.
and I, I see they have a
little bit of like, here
from great gift gifters,
like you, I would love
to see more bubbled up.
examples of the like, great
gift givers, 'cause I have
to scroll too far to see it.
Um, so I think that may
be an effective way to
kind of help, you know,
bubble up some of that.
Um, if that makes sense.
What do you think about that?
Natalie: I,
love that.
I'd almost love if they
tied the gift givers to the
collection they sent, like
rather than right now sending
you right into the collections
of almost like they have, you
know, Carrie here, if they
were like, and Carrie sent.
This and her recipient
collected this, like
showing the thoughtfulness
of that exchange I think
could be really cool.
Elle: I completely agree.
I completely agree.
I think it would, it would
go along nicely too with like
their mission of who they are.
it kind of brings a little
more genuine authenticity
to the entire experience.
so I totally agree.
Okay.
And if you were to give
that PMM at Lup and tie
some, you know, creative
ideas, thoughts, brainstorm.
Let me hear it.
What would it be?
Natalie: Okay.
I had some ideas, but
what we were just riffing
on, I wanna go further.
I feel like you could
do a whole campaign
spotlighting, like these
are the best gift givers.
Like almost find the people
who are the most active
gift givers or just like
have a really good eye.
Like I almost see it as.
Like a fashion collection and
maybe even have they own, they
have custom collections, like
someone who's really known
for picking out cool things.
Elle: That's really cool.
I really like that idea.
Especially 'cause they
list a couple of, clearly
this is for like corporate
gift giving, right?
For the most part, right?
They list these big, um,
you know, brands that
clearly use their product.
Nevada clearly
uses the product.
it would be really cool
to kind of showcase
like, Hey, here's what
they did at Google.
Here's what Google,
you know, um, and they
probably have that, but
it's just, I think it's.
Leveraged in the similar
approach, in the similar
vein that all customer
stories are used.
And I personally like to see
bubbling of customer stories
just in general in as many
creative ways as possible.
I think that's really fun.
Anything else on the list
you wanted to call out?
Natalie: No, I.
I think that's a
really fun idea.
I hope they do it if,
uh, loop and tag, if
you wanna talk about it.
But seriously, I'm gonna give
it just one final shout out.
Such a good platform.
And when we send these gifts,
we get compliments of like,
oh, this was really nice, gif.
Like, thank you.
Like, I'm actually
going to use this.
Elle: I love it.
Well shout out to Lup
and Tie and your pmms.
You've got some fans and
we have some ideas for you.
Let us know what you think.
Okay.
Um, so Natalie, there's
one thing that I always
like to make space for
on this podcast and that
is a moment of gratitude.
Uh, I think you have
always been so generous
with your time.
Your expertise, both, you
know, sharing across LinkedIn,
which is how I found you
and got connected with you.
Um, you know, and then
taking time to prepare for
this episode and be here to
share your experiences and,
um, give guidance to the
rest of the PMM community.
So thank you so
much for being here.
I really appreciate it.
Natalie: Thank you so
much for having me.
Elle: Yes.
And before we wrap up, I
wanted to maybe hand the mic
over to you and let you give
some shout outs to any pmms
who have helped get you to
this point in your career and
shaped your your path so far.
Natalie: I'm gonna give one
more shout out to Eric because
he also was just kind of like
a great emotional mentor.
As I was going through
my first product launch.
You often check in on
me, how are You doing?
As I was working through
this product, and just
that framework entirely
changed how I thought
about product launches.
I'm also very lucky at Nevada.
I mentioned we have advisors.
They are also my advisors.
I work with them.
Um, and I get to work very
closely with Jason Oakley and
Yin, if anyone knows them.
They're also on LinkedIn
and I feel very grateful
for both their experience,
so recommend to follow.
And they were also both
really helpful as I was
figuring out, really coming
into this product marketing.
Elle: You are so lucky that
you have such tremendous
resources and mentors.
Not everybody in product
marketing gets that.
It's like a very, very,
very small percentage.
Well, that's amazing,
and I promise this is my
last question for you.
Where can we get connected
more with your expertise?
Is it just best to
find you on LinkedIn?
Natalie: I always joke,
not surprisingly, I'm
on LinkedIn a little
more than I should be.
If you wanna ever chat,
I'm more than happy to.
yeah, I always love and or
if you have any ideas of
how I could have made this
launch even better, I'd
love to hear that as well.
Elle: I love it.
Thank you, Natalie, and
thank you PMM listeners
for coming on this
adventure with us today.
I hope this episode leaves
you with inspiration to
take on the next steps
of your own journey