Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Host Callan Harrington dives into the strategies, decisions, and lessons that have shaped the careers of top marketing and growth leaders in the insurance industry. From bold moves to costly mistakes, each episode uncovers real-world insights that listeners can apply to accelerate growth in their own businesses.
Alex [0:00:00]: The customer journey in almost every case in almost every successful company that I've worked with is at the core and the crux of its ultimate success.
Callan [0:00:10]: Welcome to The Insurance Growth Lab.
Callan [0:00:12]: Where we go deep on the growth campaigns and strategies driving real results in the insurance industry.
Callan [0:00:18]: Callan Harrington founder of Flashgrowth and in each episode, I sit down with marketing and growth leaders from carriers and shirt tech and top brokers to break down one specific initiative, whether it's how they marketed a product, scale a channel or solve a specific growth challenge.
Callan [0:00:35]: It's no fluff, just tactical insights you can apply in your own company.
Callan [0:00:40]: Welcome back everyone to The Insurance Growth Lab.
Callan [0:00:48]: I'm Callan Harrington.
Callan [0:00:49]: And today, I'm joined by Alex Harris.
Callan [0:00:51]: Alex is the founder of Fiat Growth and co founder of Fiat ventures.
Callan [0:00:56]: If that name sounds familiar, Alex was episode number sixty eight on that worked.
Callan [0:01:01]: And with the new format of the show, we had to bring them back.
Callan [0:01:05]: In addition to co-founding Fiat growth in Fiat Ventures, Alex was a very early employee at time, which recently went public, and it was pretty cool to capture that full circle moment on the show today.
Callan [0:01:19]: If you listened to the first episode with Alex, You know he is a partnership expert.
Callan [0:01:25]: So, of course, that's where we spent our time in the deep dive.
Callan [0:01:29]: Alex walked us through a partnership that he helped put together and manage between Lemonade and Bestow and it was super interesting.
Callan [0:01:39]: One of the big challenges of landing partnerships is that once you actually ink the deal?
Callan [0:01:45]: The question immediately becomes, how do we actually drive mutual benefit and revenue out of this partnership?
Callan [0:01:51]: So often the partnership is announced and nothing comes from it.
Callan [0:01:56]: Alex walked us through how they c market, c promote and help each other maximize the partnerships from the strategy to the tactics He provided an absolute ton of great takeaways, and I gotta say this was a masterclass on how to get the most out of a partnership.
Callan [0:02:15]: So with that, again, I'm gonna stop talking.
Callan [0:02:17]: Let's get to the show.
Callan [0:02:18]: Alex.
Callan [0:02:26]: Welcome back to the show.
Alex [0:02:28]: Thanks for having me.
Alex [0:02:28]: Good be back.
Callan [0:02:30]: I'm excited to have you on in the new form.
Callan [0:02:31]: And before we kinda go into the weeds and the campaign and all of that stuff.
Callan [0:02:35]: I wanna kick this off with a question.
Callan [0:02:37]: When you hear the words, we gonna rock down to electric avenue, What does that mean to you?
Alex [0:02:45]: Oh, man.
Alex [0:02:45]: That's really funny that you asked...
Alex [0:02:47]: I have been asset and wow.
Alex [0:02:48]: Electric avenue is core to one of the first things that I made go viral, probably fifteen years ago, we had a sports agency that we were doing some work with.
Alex [0:02:58]: Trying to help one of their athletes get attention.
Alex [0:03:00]: And so we ended saying let's do a video that we can make Go viral and this was before anything of this kind of short form content in this kind of engagement.
Alex [0:03:08]: So it's was really just Youtube at the time that we were working with and then taking that Youtube article and getting impressed for it.
Alex [0:03:13]: We went down to where the athlete was trained in Arizona.
Alex [0:03:16]: We went to a Walmart and bought a bunch of random things that we thought we could do something with, which was an adventure in itself.
Alex [0:03:24]: This guy was actually a long snap Their sole job is they snapped the ball during punt and
Callan [0:03:29]: kicks, which is incredibly hard to do.
Alex [0:03:32]: So our idea then was let's prove that this guy has what it takes by coming up with all kinds of nonsense and trick shots.
Alex [0:03:39]: For long snap in.
Alex [0:03:40]: We had a big tire.
Alex [0:03:41]: We had a garbage can from the top of the bleach that he had to snap into.
Alex [0:03:44]: We had people run routes.
Alex [0:03:46]: One of the things from Walmart that we got was a clay pigeon.
Alex [0:03:49]: And so we would throw the clay pigeon, and he tried to hit it with the football we put some music to it and electric Avenue, he came to us.
Callan [0:03:57]: That thing went mega viral.
Callan [0:03:59]: It did.
Callan [0:03:59]: You know, now on Tiktok something and get a couple million views and...
Callan [0:04:02]: But, like, that's just there.
Callan [0:04:03]: Yeah.
Callan [0:04:04]: That got picked up.
Callan [0:04:05]: Everywhere.
Callan [0:04:06]: All the national media outlets seemed to have picked that up.
Alex [0:04:09]: Yeah.
Alex [0:04:09]: It was amazing.
Alex [0:04:10]: It was the first time we got a call from the producers at Espn saying they wanted to put it on Pt, which is, you know, show that we all love too.
Alex [0:04:17]: Yeah.
Alex [0:04:18]: That was less than twenty four hours after we posted the video too and we just kinda seeded it.
Alex [0:04:22]: And, yeah.
Alex [0:04:22]: Viral was different from, like, people just like liking it.
Alex [0:04:25]: Right?
Alex [0:04:25]: It was...
Alex [0:04:26]: Had to be viral in a different way.
Alex [0:04:27]: And you had to see it differently back then.
Alex [0:04:29]: But...
Alex [0:04:30]: Yeah.
Alex [0:04:30]: I mean, it was on the Espn alone.
Alex [0:04:31]: Several times, not just Pt.
Alex [0:04:33]: So, yeah, every time I hear that song.
Alex [0:04:35]: And actually, there's a lot of friends of mine that I know still, they remember that and just had a ton of fun with it too when they hear that song, they think of it too.
Callan [0:04:41]: How could you not?
Callan [0:04:42]: It was like, the perfect song to put onto that video.
Callan [0:04:45]: So sometimes one knows all those things come together.
Callan [0:04:48]: It just comes together perfectly.
Callan [0:04:49]: It just fits with
Alex [0:04:52]: the trick shots because, like, you're, like, you were dead on.
Callan [0:04:55]: It was that mixture of...
Callan [0:04:56]: This is Cam carter homemade.
Callan [0:04:58]: Yeah.
Callan [0:04:59]: And with that song, it was perfect.
Alex [0:05:01]: And the music at the time, this was, you know, long before Tiktok and in Instagram and others had the licensing deal where you could just put whatever music to video.
Alex [0:05:07]: This was gray area or not even gray.
Alex [0:05:09]: You're not supposed to do it.
Alex [0:05:10]: Yeah.
Alex [0:05:11]: But we just loved it.
Alex [0:05:12]: And so actually, we gave a shout out to the artist in the credits.
Alex [0:05:15]: We gave a shout out to enterprise rent a car because we snapped a ball through both windows of a truck.
Alex [0:05:22]: Also, oh, when the truck was in motion to snapped a ball for people to catch in the truck in the truck bed.
Alex [0:05:27]: Things that you shouldn't do with the truck and that enterprise probably was the.
Alex [0:05:30]: And so we did that.
Alex [0:05:33]: So we also gave thanks to the artist and to enterprise for letting us do that.
Callan [0:05:38]: You answer a question because I saw enterprise Rent kart, and I was so curious like, where did this come from?
Callan [0:05:43]: I have to assume as a Reddit truck.
Callan [0:05:44]: There's nothing else that.
Alex [0:05:46]: Oh, yeah.
Alex [0:05:46]: There was no official enterprise sponsorship.
Alex [0:05:48]: That was literally I went to enterprise and invented a truck.
Alex [0:05:51]: Like, that was enterprise had nothing to do with this.
Callan [0:05:55]: It had a homemade video.
Alex [0:05:57]: Yeah.
Callan [0:05:58]: Reddit.
Callan [0:05:58]: And enterprise was on it.
Alex [0:06:01]: Yeah.
Alex [0:06:01]: A lot of stuff we do now is, like, has the legitimate sponsor.
Alex [0:06:04]: We put their logo.
Alex [0:06:05]: This was not that.
Alex [0:06:06]: That was...
Alex [0:06:07]: Yeah.
Alex [0:06:08]: I absolutely
Callan [0:06:10]: love it.
Callan [0:06:10]: On that post specifically that you had put on there.
Callan [0:06:12]: Exactly You said, this big hit was very helpful in opening the next doors of my career as more and more people got their own Google machines, which was what Him or Michael Wi said that in Pt segment.
Callan [0:06:22]: Yeah.
Callan [0:06:23]: Walk me through that.
Callan [0:06:23]: What wasn't?
Callan [0:06:24]: What did that kick off?
Alex [0:06:26]: Early in my career, I was over educated and under inexperienced.
Alex [0:06:30]: And so they're, like, cool.
Alex [0:06:32]: Anyone looking and they're, like, cool, yeah.
Alex [0:06:33]: You're educated whatever.
Alex [0:06:34]: You wanna know what you've actually done.
Alex [0:06:37]: And I had worked with some startups ups and done some work and done a few things.
Alex [0:06:41]: But at that time too, is the early days of content is everything, views and engagement or everything, and being able to really monetize and capture the attention and get that kind of that earned media that press.
Alex [0:06:55]: Here's was one of my first calling cards to be able to basically say the idea of this and what we should do, which I'll be some of the idea was, like, hey.
Alex [0:07:03]: What if we go through the truck is basically being a bunch of degenerate kids like, doing ridiculous things, but like some of the idea ideology book to do that and then to actually talk about what and what angles and produce that and what would get the attention and then how to seed it in the right way, how to get it to the right people to think through who's the audience here, which ultimately was Nfl Teams.
Alex [0:07:23]: And talent scouts.
Alex [0:07:25]: All these people, how do we build for this audience again go viral the right ways.
Alex [0:07:29]: Kinda thinking through a campaign as ridiculous as it was, it was a good example to show of where actually pretty thoughtful and strategically executed, and we...
Alex [0:07:38]: Yeah.
Alex [0:07:38]: In a work well.
Alex [0:07:39]: So it was basically me saying, you know, hey, if I can do that here for a long snap or...
Alex [0:07:45]: Right?
Alex [0:07:46]: I can do that for you and your product.
Alex [0:07:47]: We can think through similarly the aspects of a campaign.
Alex [0:07:50]: And how to really get it out there.
Alex [0:07:52]: And so a lot of the campaigns I did and companies I worked with from then after, like, a lot of it came up.
Alex [0:07:58]: And using some of the same tactics not in terms of snapping a ball, but some of the tactics in terms of strategy seating content to the right form.
Alex [0:08:06]: That was kind of something that in some ways was repeated.
Alex [0:08:09]: And it gave me a talking point and honestly one that's fun.
Alex [0:08:12]: Yeah.
Alex [0:08:12]: And people like talking about.
Alex [0:08:14]: So, yeah.
Alex [0:08:14]: I definitely took advantage of it early in my career to help sell myself to the next step in the next step.
Callan [0:08:20]: Yeah.
Callan [0:08:20]: It's interesting.
Callan [0:08:21]: Those things, I think I shi away from them a lot.
Callan [0:08:24]: You when you're talking about specifically the fun aspect.
Callan [0:08:27]: Right?
Callan [0:08:27]: Where I've been looked at this.
Callan [0:08:29]: I've made a post out that long ago about, because we put on this comedy show in Columbus and we actually just announced the next one in Chicago.
Callan [0:08:35]: But I was pretty hesitant to put that on Linkedin.
Callan [0:08:38]: Yeah.
Callan [0:08:39]: Of course, it's on, like, my personal stuff.
Callan [0:08:41]: And the interesting thing is the second I did that.
Callan [0:08:43]: People were more excited and to talk about that and everything else versus just like the regular business stuff.
Callan [0:08:50]: And I think...
Callan [0:08:50]: Yeah.
Callan [0:08:50]: I think often Like, that's the only thing I can keep it to the business.
Callan [0:08:53]: What's valuable to the customer?
Callan [0:08:54]: What's going to...
Callan [0:08:55]: And all that's super important but you gotta show that other side that other side is so important.
Callan [0:09:00]: And it's probably gonna build a relationship faster?
Callan [0:09:02]: Did you find that to be the case?
Alex [0:09:03]: It it absolutely was.
Alex [0:09:04]: It was something that was a little funny and goofy, but at the same time, I think was impressive enough in the execution and the results that it did become something that, like, let's laugh and have a good time, but, okay.
Alex [0:09:15]: Let's see how the supplies.
Callan [0:09:17]: So you use this grill marketing tactic.
Callan [0:09:19]: Do you have any other examples that you've used just kinda like either weather it's with Fiat or whomever else I'm super curious on that.
Alex [0:09:26]: Yeah.
Alex [0:09:26]: One of my favorites, given, I had a whole lot of crazy ideas for, at time, we did a study and found how people were paying on average three hundred twenty nine dollars a year in bank fees.
Alex [0:09:36]: And we did a few things and found out that people didn't realize that they were paying that.
Alex [0:09:42]: So Believe me, I had all kinds of ideas for I wanted to put a sticker on all the Wells Fargo Atms and all these things that I wanted to do that ultimately, we decided not to.
Alex [0:09:54]: However, what we did do was we created a product called bank fee finder, which you would put in your credentials for plaid, and it would tell you how much you paid in bank fees at the end.
Alex [0:10:06]: And Mh.
Alex [0:10:06]: What we ended up doing and we recorded a lot of video.
Alex [0:10:09]: Ironically, I think actually, some of the video we recorded was right here.
Alex [0:10:13]: I happened to be sitting in the original Chime office, which is now that was now the fiat growth office.
Alex [0:10:17]: And so we recorded some video here, and we called the the what the fee face.
Alex [0:10:21]: And it so Wtf fee, like, what the fee instead of something else.
Alex [0:10:25]: And we had people's reaction for...
Alex [0:10:28]: They'd put in their credentials, and then they'd see that they'd paid that and, you know, three hundred twenty nine on average.
Alex [0:10:32]: Most people are forgetting and what they're paying in bank fees.
Alex [0:10:36]: So we created that content, which was great, the the what the fee face, which is that kind of a chalk face.
Alex [0:10:42]: And then we also had a viral hook in there for when you put in your credentials, and you got your results.
Alex [0:10:49]: It would generate for you to tweet at your bank and say, hey Wells Fargo.
Alex [0:10:54]: I just found out I've paid four hundred sixty dollars in bank fees, hashtag w fee for, like, what my
Callan [0:11:03]: my God.
Callan [0:11:03]: How many people did that?
Alex [0:11:05]: A decent amount.
Alex [0:11:05]: It's not live today.
Alex [0:11:07]: I don't believe.
Alex [0:11:08]: But it was something that we actually got?
Alex [0:11:10]: Nothing insane, but definitely a few thousand people going through it and having that realization and and then overall was part of the general messaging of you don't need to be paying these bank fees.
Alex [0:11:20]: So something that was a little bit of a stunt, but was backed by actual fact in real people and real reactions could talk all day also the things that I wanted to do that shutdown that we didn't do.
Alex [0:11:32]: Yeah.
Alex [0:11:33]: But I thought that was a fun execution.
Alex [0:11:35]: And honestly one that I'm proud of because it's people shouldn't have to...
Alex [0:11:38]: It's no longer necessary to pay these fees.
Alex [0:11:40]: So...
Alex [0:11:40]: What was the result of that?
Alex [0:11:42]: It was helpful for...
Alex [0:11:43]: I think for other P r and some mer media and some attention.
Alex [0:11:46]: We put out some studies with that data, and then it just was something we leaned into further that was a marketing asset that we Leaned into for people to not pay fees.
Alex [0:11:56]: So it it was a good general awareness campaign that leaned into that was helpful in acquisition.
Callan [0:12:00]: What size was chi at that time?
Alex [0:12:02]: Small enough we could get away with stuff like that.
Alex [0:12:04]: I trying.
Alex [0:12:05]: I wanna say this Series air Series b company at the okay of time.
Callan [0:12:10]: So really early and
Alex [0:12:11]: Yeah chime.
Alex [0:12:12]: Yeah.
Callan [0:12:12]: And if Listeners less to the first episode, and I'd I highly recommend it.
Callan [0:12:15]: Where we go into a lot of your career on there, but one of the things was Chime.
Callan [0:12:18]: And I'm curious.
Callan [0:12:20]: So Chime just went public.
Callan [0:12:22]: How did that feel?
Alex [0:12:24]: It was amazing.
Alex [0:12:24]: And I'll tell you, it was interesting just like that trick shot video.
Alex [0:12:28]: Chime, of course, and it's something that I'm genuinely proud of is the calling card of of sorts.
Alex [0:12:33]: I have built our consultancy in our venture fund not
Callan [0:12:36]: sure.
Alex [0:12:37]: Largely in attribution of, hey, we're not just, you know, pick winners, but build winners using the same methodology.
Alex [0:12:42]: So I'm so enormously grateful for it.
Alex [0:12:44]: And still comes up all the time, and I'm happy to talked about it.
Alex [0:12:46]: I'm proud of it.
Alex [0:12:47]: Mh.
Alex [0:12:47]: It felt like the final piece of closure, but in a good way.
Alex [0:12:52]: Yeah.
Alex [0:12:52]: It was an unbelievable ride.
Alex [0:12:54]: Someone looked up one of my former colleagues looked up I'm gonna butcher you this.
Alex [0:12:58]: But are you more likely to be early at a company that goes public at over a ten billion dollar valuation or be struck by lightning.
Alex [0:13:05]: And you're way more likely to be struck by lightning.
Alex [0:13:07]: And Yeah.
Alex [0:13:08]: It just shows how special and unique it is.
Alex [0:13:11]: That comes from chat.
Alex [0:13:13]: I think feel free to anyone else feel
Callan [0:13:16]: free to
Alex [0:13:16]: ask yourself to see the numbers that I'm talking about.
Alex [0:13:17]: And it just made it really special and it was kind of, you know, if something that happened now a while ago because, you know, I I founded this almost seven years ago now.
Alex [0:13:26]: But to celebrate that moment was just incredibly special.
Alex [0:13:29]: Yeah yeah, to do it in New york with all of my friends, it was a fun moment and a fun celebration, honestly of everything we to accomplish and everything we changed, including helping to me, I...
Alex [0:13:40]: I've never lost sight of this fact, it's not about the money We make.
Alex [0:13:43]: It's the impact we've had a millions of people.
Alex [0:13:45]: Yeah.
Alex [0:13:46]: And so it's a cool celebration of here this company that went public successfully, and it did it based on helping people.
Alex [0:13:53]: And was able to do it successfully.
Alex [0:13:55]: And so it was just a really cool closure moment a proud moment.
Alex [0:13:58]: Yeah.
Alex [0:13:59]: One that All treasure forever, that's for sure.
Callan [0:14:01]: You know, I'm curious.
Callan [0:14:02]: I actually did a realize fiat only started seven years ago.
Callan [0:14:05]: It's like a blink of an eye when founding a business as I've learned.
Callan [0:14:08]: You guys are at a good size.
Callan [0:14:09]: Was that the way that it was right out of the gate?
Callan [0:14:12]: What were some of those hills?
Callan [0:14:14]: Like, when you got...
Callan [0:14:15]: Like, what were those some of those stage gates that unlocked the big growth on that?
Alex [0:14:19]: Yeah.
Alex [0:14:19]: It's a great question and it's funny.
Alex [0:14:21]: I talked to my cofounder, Drew Glover quite a bit.
Alex [0:14:24]: About this where at any point in the business, there's a stressful point.
Alex [0:14:28]: There's a challenge.
Alex [0:14:29]: And there's a feeling of discomfort throughout the last seven years.
Alex [0:14:32]: There's just various points I've said, this is just an inflection point.
Alex [0:14:35]: And inflection points keep growing, and they're different and often more complex.
Alex [0:14:39]: But, you know, it started...
Alex [0:14:41]: Originally, it was just me being a solo consultant.
Alex [0:14:45]: I asked Drew if you would come help me because we go back now it's been twenty plus years that we've known each other, and then it evolved from there.
Alex [0:14:53]: And I think it was there was a few moments, I think of...
Alex [0:14:56]: From that very first moment of, look, we have a website that was just, like, a a simple page with a photo manager or something like that to the first pain client that we have.
Alex [0:15:05]: And, like, you're gonna give me money to do this and, like, it still is a Yeah.
Alex [0:15:09]: Set up a first bank account to moments of the first referral if I heard from someone about you.
Alex [0:15:15]: And the first time someone says, I want to work for you.
Alex [0:15:18]: Not who are you?
Alex [0:15:20]: You have to convince me, like, people who actually, like, start to see the traction and one of the best things I learned at chai was hire amazing people, and I took that to heart, and I was lucky to hire amazing people early, but the best thing about amazing people is that amazing people attract other amazing people.
Alex [0:15:37]: Yeah.
Alex [0:15:38]: So we've done that.
Alex [0:15:39]: And so the...
Alex [0:15:40]: When when I'm, like, oh my god, this unbelievably brilliant intelligent person wants to join us.
Alex [0:15:46]: That was a huge inflection point.
Alex [0:15:47]: Several times where It's like, wow.
Alex [0:15:49]: The this is incredible.
Alex [0:15:51]: Had a moment of someone a large, probably gonna go public, in the next year or two.
Alex [0:15:57]: A Fintech company came and tried to poach one of our team members, and she said, no.
Alex [0:16:02]: Thank you.
Alex [0:16:03]: But let me tell you about Fiat growth.
Alex [0:16:05]: And how we can help you.
Alex [0:16:06]: And then we actually ended up talking with them about how we can help them on their growth, and they had deeper pockets and us and I have bootstrap this.
Alex [0:16:13]: There's really...
Alex [0:16:14]: So Yeah.
Alex [0:16:15]: Creating a culture that people want to be in.
Alex [0:16:18]: That was just another amazing full circle moment, in launching our our venture fund, a lot of the events, we have fifty events that we're doing this year that we're hosting.
Callan [0:16:29]: It's pretty pretty heavy.
Callan [0:16:30]: Yeah.
Alex [0:16:30]: Yeah.
Alex [0:16:30]: Including the Fintech summit, which was a big success.
Alex [0:16:33]: Yeah.
Alex [0:16:34]: We have another one coming up in November in San Francisco.
Alex [0:16:37]: Those have been key moments.
Alex [0:16:39]: I think moments when I love when people are named as a company.
Alex [0:16:43]: And they know it's not about me.
Alex [0:16:45]: It's not about true.
Alex [0:16:46]: They just know our our name and and company, and know, I've heard about you guys everywhere and like, that evolution from that first moment until, as it continues to grow It's really quite the right.
Callan [0:16:57]: No.
Callan [0:16:57]: I...
Callan [0:16:58]: I believe that.
Callan [0:16:58]: It's interesting.
Callan [0:16:59]: You did kinda look back on some of those pivot and changes that you made and like, oh, okay.
Callan [0:17:04]: Yeah.
Callan [0:17:04]: That was the...
Callan [0:17:05]: I would never thought that that was going to happen.
Callan [0:17:06]: Like, for us.
Callan [0:17:07]: I didn't...
Callan [0:17:08]: I never thought we would do a marketing agency.
Callan [0:17:10]: Like, no chance.
Callan [0:17:10]: Yes.
Callan [0:17:11]: Fortunately, I did live that before.
Callan [0:17:12]: Because knowing really talented to people that you can bring on, but that was is never in the cards for sure, and it's so interesting that those the little changes make such huge differences.
Callan [0:17:22]: So one of the things I wanna dive into.
Callan [0:17:24]: So the partnerships you know, partnership you guys, and...
Callan [0:17:27]: And now that we've got to known each other, and I've got to understand more about your model.
Callan [0:17:31]: I haven't seen anybody do anything like that.
Callan [0:17:33]: And especially in, you know, the financial services and insurance niche.
Callan [0:17:36]: And I know we talked about partnerships at a broad level on the first episode But I really love to get in the weeds and break down a partnership on the insurance side?
Callan [0:17:45]: And I know we talked a little bit about the lemonade and and Bestow relationship?
Callan [0:17:50]: Where did this start?
Callan [0:17:52]: Where did the idea come from?
Callan [0:17:53]: How did you approach all this What did that look like?
Alex [0:17:56]: I first fell in love with life insurance.
Alex [0:17:58]: One, I had my first child and was thinking just the panic of On what if something happens to me.
Alex [0:18:04]: I need to take care of her, like, Yeah.
Alex [0:18:05]: Just on a personal level.
Alex [0:18:06]: At that time, I was also as that Launching our our marketplace and our cross sell marketplace.
Alex [0:18:11]: We had launched...
Alex [0:18:13]: I think ladder life was our first one that we launched.
Alex [0:18:15]: Shortly, thereafter we launched lemonade, renters, insurance and homeowners insurance.
Alex [0:18:20]: So this was early days for them and offering this to people to help protect and better their lives.
Alex [0:18:25]: So I had early exposure to these products from the chime side.
Callan [0:18:29]: Okay.
Callan [0:18:29]: I got a question.
Callan [0:18:30]: Everybody wants to crack this not.
Callan [0:18:32]: Everybody wants to add life insurance, Like, in Bed life insurance, we'll just use the most common term.
Callan [0:18:38]: They went Bed life insurance they when a bed runner they wanna get on these platforms like a chime.
Callan [0:18:42]: How do that work?
Alex [0:18:44]: Yeah.
Alex [0:18:44]: So I wanted to create this so funny enough, I, begged a friend of mine.
Alex [0:18:49]: Basically, I wanted to do this four chime members and offer these products.
Alex [0:18:53]: And as in any good startup, it's it's hard to get resources.
Alex [0:18:56]: And so I begged a friend of mine who was in product to help me launch this in some form.
Alex [0:19:02]: So we were able to actually launch.
Alex [0:19:03]: Basically, they gave me a web container.
Alex [0:19:05]: Within the Chime app, a basic page and a basic, Cms to manage the offers, and I had to do everything else for who retargeting with these offers pull in their manually their member Ids of who we're offering this too based on certain criteria, And then this is what the offer card's gonna say.
Alex [0:19:21]: This is the link, make sure we're tracking it properly, basically setting up, you know, the Cpa and everything we can do on that front.
Alex [0:19:27]: And then the idea over time is more and where these are handpicked offers for you to make your life better based on certain characteristics.
Alex [0:19:34]: And that was one where, you know, if there parents, people overestimate the cost of especially term life.
Callan [0:19:41]: Oh, hundred percent.
Alex [0:19:42]: And they think it's this thing that's only available to like, no, You know, I I I don't have a financial adviser, who's gonna get this for me.
Alex [0:19:49]: And so Great.
Alex [0:19:49]: It's something that I felt the security and then actually taking care of your family.
Alex [0:19:53]: I felt that it was important generally.
Alex [0:19:55]: I had the chime members in mind for any product of, like, is this helpful to them is this additive?
Alex [0:20:00]: Mh.
Alex [0:20:01]: And that was kind of the lens that I took and so having these conversations with these companies and and experiencing it myself too, with my own daughter realized like, this is a great product we should be offering is the first time you had kind of this full digital buy, no blood test, no medical visits
Callan [0:20:15]: Oh, that was the killer.
Callan [0:20:16]: I had a digital life insurance agency personally.
Callan [0:20:18]: Yeah.
Callan [0:20:19]: Then I was scheduling nurses all over the country to take these medical exams.
Alex [0:20:24]: Yep.
Callan [0:20:25]: And so it was brutal.
Callan [0:20:26]: But what you just said...
Callan [0:20:27]: I mean, I was assuming That was probably the key to getting this to actually work.
Alex [0:20:30]: That was basically when you can take someone and say, protect your family for as little as x a month, you click yes, fill out the application.
Alex [0:20:39]: And obviously, there's a number of checks that go into that, but go through that process and then actually get a decision in real time and put in your credit card buying the policy you're protected.
Alex [0:20:48]: Right?
Alex [0:20:48]: Like that?
Callan [0:20:49]: Yeah.
Alex [0:20:49]: Instead of a process that takes weeks.
Alex [0:20:51]: Yeah.
Alex [0:20:51]: So that was the big game changer for sure.
Alex [0:20:53]: As was lemonade was a game changer in itself in terms of not just the binding of the policies, but in the ways that they help you on the back end.
Alex [0:21:03]: There's a lot that was just much smoother and different from other products in the market.
Alex [0:21:09]: So I'd come to love a number of products, not just those two, but really, love and appreciated the Lemonade team, and I had met Bestow insurance.
Alex [0:21:20]: They actually just...
Alex [0:21:21]: I think recently announced their series d.
Alex [0:21:23]: Great team.
Alex [0:21:23]: Yep.
Alex [0:21:24]: Wonderful people who I'm incredibly grateful to.
Alex [0:21:27]: They're one of the people who I was lucky to...
Alex [0:21:30]: I felt like you're gonna pay me to do these things for you that...
Alex [0:21:33]: They're one one of the first.
Alex [0:21:34]: Yeah.
Alex [0:21:35]: And Jonathan Enable made in particular from Bestow who I feel like it's like an informal c founder of Fiat growth because he was our first client because Yeah.
Alex [0:21:43]: We talked about the business ass we were building up, and he's had a a ton of amazing suggestions.
Alex [0:21:48]: But, you know, he was telling me as they're launching the s life insurance.
Alex [0:21:52]: And really loved their vision, which included all also, making it more accessible to a wider audience.
Alex [0:21:58]: And I said I I want to come help you with this, and that was part of...
Alex [0:22:03]: They were the first.
Alex [0:22:04]: Client of fiat growth.
Callan [0:22:06]: Yep.
Callan [0:22:06]: That's absolutely.
Alex [0:22:08]: So that was one of the things that made me take the jump and want to bring bestow life insurance to life and get at the distribution that I knew that it could.
Alex [0:22:15]: So that was a combination of several different pieces, but partnership being a huge piece of that growth.
Alex [0:22:22]: Early on, and we can talk about a lot of the early growth there.
Alex [0:22:26]: But early on, I went to my friend, Maya at Lemonade who...
Alex [0:22:29]: If you've ever applied for lemonade and you see Maya who is kinda of the chatbot that walks you through the application process.
Alex [0:22:36]: Maya is real.
Alex [0:22:37]: She's wonderful.
Alex [0:22:38]: And actually leads their the business side of, lemonade.
Alex [0:22:44]: Yeah.
Alex [0:22:44]: I talked to her and we talked about...
Alex [0:22:47]: On the business side, I'd also appreciate it and not just was this a great product that people needed, but life insurance has a pretty amazing Lt tv.
Alex [0:22:54]: It's a great product if you can find the right audience for it.
Callan [0:22:58]: Sure.
Alex [0:22:58]: And so, you know, we had talked about their existing products, which at the time were renters insurance and homeowners.
Alex [0:23:04]: And we talked about the value of adding life, and it was just something I had a few conversations at the time.
Alex [0:23:10]: With various people about, hey, maybe you should consider offering this.
Alex [0:23:14]: There's a lot of life insurance that's out there in fintech today because I nicely suggested, I guess, and people were were a nice enough to go along with it.
Alex [0:23:22]: But...
Alex [0:23:23]: So what that became is we actually brought together the Bestow and lemonade teams and in a highly regulated space is never super fast.
Callan [0:23:32]: Yeah.
Alex [0:23:33]: But those teams came together and lemonade actually offered life insurance, and they offered life insurance through Ba so.
Alex [0:23:39]: So is white label Bestow running everything in the background, but it took time to give it a very lemonade feel that of course, is a challenge in itself because it's highly regulated into how you must ask each question to under underweight this.
Alex [0:23:52]: But the way you typically ask an underwriting question is different from the vibe and brand that lemonade have?
Alex [0:23:59]: The Maya experience.
Alex [0:24:00]: And so, you know, how can we do that in a way that still feels very lemonade with being powered by the amazing experience, of the s underneath.
Alex [0:24:10]: And that took a fair amount of time, and we were able to launch and it ended up being a, fantastic success for both companies and something that was bringing together friends of mine, companies that I love, products that I loved and expanding the reach of Bestow and expanding the offerings that lemonade an ability to get that to more families.
Callan [0:24:31]: Yeah.
Callan [0:24:31]: Many people will sign these agreements.
Callan [0:24:33]: They'll sign a partnership they might do a couple emails, or they'll just put it on the website, it doesn't really produce that much usage out it.
Callan [0:24:43]: Like, you just don't sell that many policies on it.
Callan [0:24:45]: What did you guys do to make sure that that drove usage.
Callan [0:24:49]: Or that you made money on off of this.
Alex [0:24:52]: That is such a huge question.
Alex [0:24:53]: And because that's...
Alex [0:24:54]: You know, you look at a product like, say, chime, I think I'm quoting their s one.
Alex [0:24:59]: Something like people are using it fifty three times a month or something like that on average.
Alex [0:25:03]: Mh.
Alex [0:25:03]: You look at a life insurance product often you're putting your card in, you get in set and you forget about it forever.
Alex [0:25:09]: Yep.
Alex [0:25:10]: Right.
Alex [0:25:10]: And so engagement really differs depending on the product.
Alex [0:25:15]: Renters and homeowners insurance, kind of a little bit in the middle, you're moving a little more often than, you know, every twenty years.
Alex [0:25:22]: Right?
Alex [0:25:23]: On average.
Callan [0:25:24]: Still not a.
Alex [0:25:25]: It's still not a lot.
Alex [0:25:25]: So there's a lot to be said for one of the biggest appreciation and it something that I took to hard and one to add as we're were building out our consultancy was just life cycle generally.
Alex [0:25:37]: Mh.
Alex [0:25:37]: And that is content being in front of the right people at the right time, mapping very closely the customer journey that they're going through and where you should be, and the messaging you should have for them at each point seeing where there's huge drop off and where there's opportunity you think to really help conversion on or retention or referring another friend in some cases for a product or all these things to really understand the customer journey.
Alex [0:26:02]: So I would say that the customer journey in almost every case in almost every successful company that I've worked with is at the core and the crux of its ultimate success.
Callan [0:26:13]: So you're mapping out the customer journey?
Callan [0:26:14]: So you could do life cycle marketing against that?
Callan [0:26:17]: Yeah.
Callan [0:26:17]: What are some of the actual tactics as part of your life cycle marketing campaigns to drive success in a partnership?
Alex [0:26:23]: Yeah.
Alex [0:26:23]: I mean, first off is and underlying is great data.
Alex [0:26:27]: So that is knowing...
Alex [0:26:28]: And so that's mapping both where are their drop off points, and that's everything from even, you know, open rates, click rates.
Alex [0:26:34]: Mh.
Alex [0:26:35]: Deliver ability rates, looking at some of these pieces and just seeing like, what kind of engagement am I getting here to understanding where in the journey someone is, how long it typically takes someone to...
Alex [0:26:47]: I don't wanna be hit over the head, day after day after day after day, in a product that I'm gonna think about for the next few weeks, few months, So what's the right cadence?
Alex [0:26:56]: And so I think it's really understanding the individual in the common journey and mapping that to how often you should be hearing from us.
Alex [0:27:04]: And also what messaging we should be having.
Alex [0:27:07]: It's not just...
Alex [0:27:07]: Hello again.
Alex [0:27:08]: Hello again.
Alex [0:27:08]: Hello again.
Alex [0:27:09]: It's not just that annoying follow up?
Alex [0:27:10]: But Finding I need that right, kinda similar to a reach reaching a frequency campaign.
Alex [0:27:15]: Right?
Alex [0:27:15]: Like, how often are we touching base?
Alex [0:27:17]: And what is that messaging that we're coming you with?
Alex [0:27:19]: And maybe in some cases where you're getting really granular.
Alex [0:27:22]: You're saying, hey, you engaged and spend time on this piece of content or this ad or something that that was on this topic.
Alex [0:27:28]: So it seems like you're interested in this or we could infer that if you have interest in this, you also have interest in this.
Alex [0:27:35]: And so let's put this in front of you.
Alex [0:27:37]: So again, that all comes back to good content, but ultimately good data that can deliver for you where you should be engaging and how.
Alex [0:27:46]: There's a lot of nuance in the strategy, but also in the technical delivery of that.
Callan [0:27:52]: And are these...
Callan [0:27:52]: When you said they're interacting with an ad and things like that.
Callan [0:27:54]: Now...
Callan [0:27:55]: I mean, with things like Clay now, you can actually get a lot more intent data that you can pull into that.
Callan [0:28:00]: But were you essentially referring to ads that...
Callan [0:28:03]: Let's obviously use Chime exist.
Callan [0:28:04]: This may not be applicable.
Callan [0:28:05]: But Chime has ads that they're putting out there, They've got content that they're putting out there, and you have the data on what they're interacting with and when they interact with said piece of content or add you're using that as a trigger event too.
Callan [0:28:20]: I'm gonna just say, random example, send them an email for life insurance because they were reading on maybe a family planning, piece of content or something like that.
Callan [0:28:28]: Is that correct?
Alex [0:28:29]: Yeah.
Alex [0:28:29]: I think there's a lot of, you can see did I engage there was if you have a advertisement and protect your family or something like that.
Alex [0:28:37]: If you don't have a family, if you don't have you young kids, you're probably not gonna engage in that.
Alex [0:28:41]: Because for the most part, we're not asking people an enrollment in most products, do you have kids.
Alex [0:28:46]: Right?
Alex [0:28:46]: So we need to kinda infer it from other pieces.
Alex [0:28:49]: Some of it can come from transaction data, but a lot of it is...
Alex [0:28:52]: I don't know.
Alex [0:28:53]: I bought at Amazon or Target or Walmart, what you buy.
Alex [0:28:56]: Did you buy diapers there or formula or did you buy you know, a playstation.
Alex [0:29:00]: Right?
Alex [0:29:00]: Like, I I can't necessarily tell which is a whole another world that I love by the way of sku level transaction data, and and that space is one that excites me.
Alex [0:29:08]: But...
Callan [0:29:09]: Okay.
Callan [0:29:09]: I would ask a naive questions.
Callan [0:29:11]: Just data available.
Callan [0:29:12]: At
Alex [0:29:12]: a high level with the right strategic execution.
Alex [0:29:14]: Yes, It can be available.
Alex [0:29:15]: Interesting.
Alex [0:29:16]: In some limited cases, retailers make it available to the networks, but it's not all retailers.
Callan [0:29:24]: Mh.
Alex [0:29:25]: There are platforms and there's one that we helped grow quite a bit.
Alex [0:29:29]: Called coin out that was acquired by Ir, that was receipt capture.
Alex [0:29:34]: And so in that case, you're actually uploading the Sku level data.
Alex [0:29:39]: So at Tar, you can see I bought this this in this.
Alex [0:29:42]: There's a number of use cases where that has and continues to be successful and I'm definitely a big fan of that.
Alex [0:29:48]: But so it's...
Alex [0:29:49]: These are all the the pieces of the puzzle.
Alex [0:29:51]: Where did you shop?
Alex [0:29:52]: How much did you spend?
Alex [0:29:53]: What did you buy if we know?
Alex [0:29:55]: Yep.
Alex [0:29:55]: Did you engage?
Alex [0:29:56]: So assuming I don't know.
Alex [0:29:58]: I don't have that receipt.
Alex [0:29:59]: But I have a video that I put out or some content, some ten second content that's about protecting your family and you stayed the whole time or you watched or you clicked after then I'm thinking and maybe I'm marked down that you are more likely to have advocate.
Alex [0:30:12]: Yep.
Alex [0:30:13]: Right.
Alex [0:30:13]: So I'm thinking that then maybe I should lean into that messaging versus a different profile, a different persona that we may be building toward.
Alex [0:30:22]: And trying to build that out and customize it toward them.
Alex [0:30:25]: Same thing for certain behaviors.
Alex [0:30:27]: Time for instance, they...
Alex [0:30:30]: If you didn't know this when you use a debit card at a gas pump at first, there's a hold that's put on the card.
Alex [0:30:38]: For, a flat amount that's typically larger than you're gonna transact, people often are, like, wait, what happened to my money?
Alex [0:30:44]: It comes back quickly, but that question kept coming up in member services.
Alex [0:30:49]: And so when that question keeps coming up.
Alex [0:30:51]: It's the idea of, okay.
Alex [0:30:52]: Well let me I want these people to stick around and not be mad at.
Alex [0:30:55]: So let me work on messaging at that moment and explain to them exactly what happens exactly when it's gonna be returned.
Alex [0:31:02]: People appreciated that, and it was something that the tiniest transaction piece.
Alex [0:31:08]: But it actually is meaningful to a member and makes them more likely to be retained and higher N scores, higher appreciation of the product just for understanding that.
Callan [0:31:19]: So you're looking for you're aggregating all of these very small predictive indicators in order to essentially create a score and when they hit x score, that's when email goes out.
Callan [0:31:33]: That's when an ad is targeted to them specifically, for these different products that are in this partnership.
Callan [0:31:40]: Is that right?
Alex [0:31:40]: Yeah.
Alex [0:31:40]: It can be trigger based, certain transaction or this is your forced transaction or you got this far in an enrollment flow or you've viewed this much of an ad.
Alex [0:31:49]: You engaged in this content.
Alex [0:31:50]: The trigger can be something whether it's score or certain action, there's all kinds of triggers that you can set to actually give you confidence that we should be delivering this message to you at this point.
Callan [0:32:02]: To you started to add tools like clay and things like that to be able to now go and read all of your posts and look for any type of...
Callan [0:32:11]: I mean, news article.
Callan [0:32:12]: I mean, it just just so much out there that it can bring into.
Callan [0:32:16]: Are you starting to do that?
Alex [0:32:18]: Yep.
Alex [0:32:18]: I will say one of the things I appreciate most about our brilliant team is they are constantly looking at the newest tools out there.
Alex [0:32:25]: They're constantly embracing Ai and Ai agents and their ability to make impact for us.
Alex [0:32:30]: We've built many of our own tools internally that we use.
Alex [0:32:33]: Some of them are as basic as, you know, let let me help me with a creative grief for something, like, make a lot easier.
Alex [0:32:40]: Yeah.
Alex [0:32:40]: And some of them are really in...
Alex [0:32:42]: Of understanding of our Ic are members that we're going after personas we're going after.
Alex [0:32:48]: So there are many tools that we're constantly incorporating.
Callan [0:32:51]: Okay.
Callan [0:32:51]: So you mentioned there's the trigger based examples.
Callan [0:32:53]: What are some of the other examples on that?
Callan [0:32:56]: Is that just kind of your general be retargeting, pay ads, things like that.
Callan [0:33:00]: You know, we've got a...
Callan [0:33:02]: Well that still be...
Callan [0:33:03]: Does Gonna say change in season and things like that, but that's still trigger based.
Callan [0:33:05]: So you've got trigger based as a category.
Callan [0:33:07]: What are the other categories that you're using for outreach and to drive adoption?
Alex [0:33:11]: Mean, I'd say there's there's just various triggers.
Alex [0:33:13]: Some of it is to your point.
Alex [0:33:14]: It's...
Alex [0:33:15]: There's seasonality.
Alex [0:33:16]: Absolutely.
Alex [0:33:16]: There's where you are in a customer journey, whether you've signed up or not.
Callan [0:33:22]: Yep.
Alex [0:33:22]: Whether we want you to take some further action.
Alex [0:33:24]: I whether that is, you know, set up direct deposit, whether that is refer a friend, whether that is, hey, you had a second kid.
Alex [0:33:32]: Maybe you need to ladder up and have additional amount of life insurance,
Callan [0:33:37]: Mh.
Alex [0:33:38]: There are these different data databases that if we know, then we can include that with the right messaging.
Alex [0:33:43]: So it's both kinda macro in terms of seasonality.
Alex [0:33:46]: It's personalized to you in terms of your own journey, your own unique situation and, yeah, meet meeting you where data says that we should.
Callan [0:33:59]: Yeah.
Callan [0:33:59]: It's interesting.
Callan [0:33:59]: And I'm and I'm curious.
Callan [0:34:00]: Like, if, you know, you opt in into certain rewards and stuff like that on credit cards and and things like that.
Callan [0:34:07]: You know, now that could unlock additional data points that you have.
Callan [0:34:11]: I I always think of the example of Target.
Callan [0:34:13]: Target has probably one of the the most interesting.
Callan [0:34:15]: They were so early on this.
Callan [0:34:17]: And where they...
Callan [0:34:18]: I know you probably know the story, but where target started sending all these coupons for, like, baby formula and All the family planning and things like this to a house.
Callan [0:34:27]: Well the parents were getting this because it was it was to the daughter, and the parents were getting this, and they're, like, Are you pregnant not telling me the daughter like, no.
Callan [0:34:36]: I'm not.
Callan [0:34:37]: And then she actually took a pregnancy test and was Pregnant target new based off of her spending habits at Target that had nothing to do at all with, like, in her mind, she...
Callan [0:34:49]: She wasn't buying anything family panicked, because she had no idea Was actually pregnant.
Callan [0:34:52]: Yeah.
Callan [0:34:52]: And that's what.
Callan [0:34:53]: And obviously, that was a big this is public like this isn't anything that's, like, a myth.
Callan [0:34:56]: So, like, wild.
Callan [0:34:57]: And it's such that what you're talking about in a totally...
Callan [0:35:00]: Well, maybe not a totally different.
Alex [0:35:02]: No.
Alex [0:35:02]: I mean aspect.
Alex [0:35:03]: It just comes down to data points.
Alex [0:35:04]: In that case, the trigger was probably...
Alex [0:35:05]: You know, it wasn't definitively.
Alex [0:35:07]: Yes.
Alex [0:35:08]: This person it was pregnant, but it was...
Alex [0:35:09]: Maybe she had heartburn or she had Yeah.
Alex [0:35:13]: You know, some kind of product that she was purchasing because she felt some kind of early pregnancy symptom that she didn't recognize, and that was a trigger of this makes you more likely to be, pregnant.
Callan [0:35:26]: Yeah.
Alex [0:35:26]: And so it was not yet.
Alex [0:35:28]: Not something that she input, but it it is all of those pieces that people will use to what whether it's known or unknown.
Alex [0:35:36]: I think in most cases, it's known, but Certainly, there's a lot of data that that knows us better than we know ourselves in some cases.
Alex [0:35:43]: Yeah.
Callan [0:35:44]: Okay.
Callan [0:35:44]: So I...
Callan [0:35:45]: I'm curious it's super interesting.
Callan [0:35:47]: I'm glad we dove into that in detail.
Callan [0:35:49]: On the service business side of the house.
Callan [0:35:51]: Do you get excited about Ai or do you fear it?
Alex [0:35:55]: Both.
Alex [0:35:55]: As a whole excited for sure.
Alex [0:35:57]: Mh.
Alex [0:35:58]: I also think it's interesting for when it's worth that services traditionally run at a lower margin.
Alex [0:36:03]: Technology allows some services businesses, service businesses to run more like a Saas based business.
Alex [0:36:11]: You could potentially have agreed improved margins because of that.
Alex [0:36:14]: And honestly, you can do it in a way that's not hurting or hermit.
Alex [0:36:18]: And when it's making everyone more efficient.
Alex [0:36:20]: No one wants to be doing a lot of the busy work the kind of the mindless execution.
Alex [0:36:25]: It's a lot of the other tactical strategy, relationship pieces that, Mh.
Alex [0:36:31]: People actually really enjoy.
Alex [0:36:33]: And so Ai is allowing people to enjoy their jobs more to be more efficient and do some things quite frankly that are really powerful.
Alex [0:36:41]: There's so many things that I did manually early in my career that now can be automated with Ai that I'm like, thank you.
Alex [0:36:47]: That was like.
Alex [0:36:48]: I mean this was the bane of my existence was having to do x thing.
Alex [0:36:51]: Yeah.
Alex [0:36:52]: So I I think we should not fear it.
Alex [0:36:55]: It's...
Alex [0:36:55]: For the most part, is not gonna take your job.
Alex [0:36:58]: It's a person using Ai that's gonna take your job if you don't embrace it.
Alex [0:37:01]: So we think about the future of consult in the future of growth and how that will take place.
Alex [0:37:07]: And we think about what Ai tools will be part of that success.
Alex [0:37:10]: Mh.
Alex [0:37:11]: And whether that's something we build ourselves or we partner with, we straight.
Alex [0:37:15]: Buy from them.
Alex [0:37:17]: We're figuring out the stack as all growth continues to evolve of where ai fits and continuing to help businesses grow.
Alex [0:37:23]: So we're very much embracing it, both because we have to, but on it, to survive and to succeed, but also because honestly, it it will long term give the best positive results.
Callan [0:37:34]: Yeah.
Callan [0:37:34]: I tend to agree with that, but I can't deny that I am afraid.
Callan [0:37:39]: You know it's, you know, and it's keeps, like, I keep thinking it's gonna get closer to replacing some of these, especially in the creative side, but it's just not there.
Callan [0:37:45]: I mean, not saying, like, it's a heck of a copywriter, but it's not necessarily to get into the nuances of the actual details that come from like a customer.
Callan [0:37:53]: Doesn't mean it may not at some point, but And that's the part that I I fear at some point, but
Alex [0:37:58]: Yeah.
Callan [0:37:59]: It is interesting.
Alex [0:38:00]: There's a lot that can be replaced.
Alex [0:38:01]: And there's stuff that people say, well, a, I can't replace this, but it can and it's just challenging.
Callan [0:38:06]: Great.
Alex [0:38:06]: I do think there are some elements there's some human elements that an Ai I just can't replicate.
Alex [0:38:11]: They could...
Alex [0:38:12]: They could mock and try to, you know, imitate it, but some of it is that human empathy that human understanding that is people, I always say they don't remember what you said, but they remember how you make them feel.
Alex [0:38:24]: Mh.
Alex [0:38:25]: There's something in very human about human human interaction, understanding with empathy, how you make them feel comfortable, alleviate stress, build trust, whatever it is.
Alex [0:38:36]: That's very difficult for technology to replicate.
Alex [0:38:39]: Yeah.
Alex [0:38:40]: Theoretically, you and I on this podcast right now, either one of us could be a generative Ai, asking questions and responding to the other.
Alex [0:38:47]: Right?
Alex [0:38:47]: Theoretically...
Callan [0:38:48]: Well, no.
Callan [0:38:49]: I am.
Alex [0:38:50]: Oh, okay.
Alex [0:38:50]: Well, great.
Alex [0:38:51]: Then then I just my time.
Callan [0:38:53]: Great.
Callan [0:38:53]: It's been...
Callan [0:38:53]: It's been fun.
Alex [0:38:55]: Yeah.
Alex [0:38:55]: Theoretically, that can happen, but there is something in human to human connection that is irr replaceable.
Callan [0:39:04]: Yeah.
Alex [0:39:05]: And so it's figuring out those pieces that you can't really build technology for, and then figuring out the pieces that honestly, technology is made for and efficiency it's gonna be massive the gains that are gonna come from it.
Alex [0:39:19]: For what should be built, what should be embraced?
Callan [0:39:21]: Yep.
Callan [0:39:21]: And similar to yourself, what we also think that in person gonna be ten times more important and we've doubled down on events.
Callan [0:39:28]: Yeah.
Callan [0:39:28]: And I think here to start to see bigger brands start doing that as well.
Callan [0:39:32]: You start to see a little bit, but it feels like that's just gonna be even more important.
Alex [0:39:37]: Our events have been incredible, and and it's everything from, you know, a a small dinner with twenty founders coming together talking shop to a large summit with speakers and speed networking to happy hours and other events and other things that just...
Alex [0:39:52]: That foster real human connection and discussion.
Callan [0:39:55]: Yep.
Alex [0:39:55]: And, you know, then there's a lot of follow ups that can happen using technology using Ai.
Alex [0:40:00]: And some of the execution.
Alex [0:40:01]: But at the core of it, it is human to human connection that's bringing it together.
Alex [0:40:05]: That's idea together, strat them together building that bond that trust and then efficiently executing on your shared vision.
Callan [0:40:13]: Yep.
Callan [0:40:13]: Alex, last question I have for you.
Callan [0:40:15]: If you can have a conversation with you younger self.
Callan [0:40:17]: Age, totally up to you, what would that conversation be?
Callan [0:40:20]: What advice would you give them?
Alex [0:40:22]: Buy Nvidia.
Alex [0:40:23]: Yeah.
Alex [0:40:27]: Good question.
Alex [0:40:28]: Life goes fast.
Callan [0:40:31]: Man.
Callan [0:40:31]: Man is that not the truth.
Alex [0:40:34]: Yeah.
Alex [0:40:34]: Don't be in such a hurry.
Alex [0:40:35]: I think there's always...
Alex [0:40:36]: You know, we're always working on something and there's some goal that's six months out even, you know, we're kid and we're nine, and we can't wait to turn ten or whatever that is.
Alex [0:40:44]: Mh.
Alex [0:40:44]: Don't hurry up through life because we've only got one shot on it in life is short, even if you're lucky to live long life, and so, yeah.
Alex [0:40:51]: Enjoy the ride.
Callan [0:40:52]: I love it.
Callan [0:40:52]: Perfect place to wrap from where we started on and enjoy the ride.
Callan [0:40:57]: I love it.
Callan [0:40:58]: Alex.
Callan [0:40:58]: Thanks for coming on, man.
Alex [0:40:59]: Thanks for.
Alex [0:40:59]: Great seeing
Callan [0:41:00]: you.
Callan [0:41:00]: Absolutely.
Callan [0:41:01]: I hope you enjoy Alex and my comments conversation, partnerships are one of my favorite topics.
Callan [0:41:14]: And Alex is one of those people that I love talking about them with.
Callan [0:41:18]: If you wanna learn more about Alex, you could find him on Linkedin in the show notes.
Callan [0:41:22]: Also, if you like this episode, you could find me on Linkedin to let me know And if you really wanna support the show, give us a follow on Youtube or give us a review on Apple podcast or spotify every time we very much appreciated.
Callan [0:41:35]: And thank you for listening everybody, and we'll see you next week.