Pets... yay or nay? 🐕🐈🐟 (Ep. 19)

Pets. Our furry, scaly, and feathered friends. Did you have a pet growing up that you were responsible for, or were you not allowed to but always wanted one? In today's Yay or Nay episode, we're discussing the joys and challenges of owning a pet while raising young children.

Key takeaways:

• Lessons it teaches our kids: Having a pet teaches kids about loyalty, routine, and responsibility, which are invaluable qualities to have. Pets also help children develop empathy, patience, and a sense of accountability.
• Start small: If you want to introduce these lessons but can't commit to a larger pet, consider starting small. A fish, rabbit or fostering a pet can be a great way to ease into pet ownership and teach these important life skills.
• Coping with loss: Owning a pet inevitably involves loss. Teaching kids about loss, grief, and sadness through the lifecycle of a pet is a delicate but essential life lesson. 
• Understanding what it takes to own a pet:  Beyond the financial cost, owning a pet requires significant time, effort, and patience. The mess and care involved can be overwhelming, and it's important to recognise that getting a pet might not be the best option for every family. Assessing your family's readiness and commitment is crucial before bringing a pet into your home.

What we discussed:
00:24 Intro
00:50 Are we a yay or nay?
01:02 Pets in our childhood
02:33 The downside and alternatives
04:13 Burden vs gain
08:15 Getting comfortable with mess
11:36 Starting small
12:16 Dealing with the loss of a pet
15:25 Pets vs food
19:05 Outro

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Creators & Guests

Host

Diana Rodrigues

Co-host of the Milk and Madness podcast! 🤪

Host

Nhi Hemingway

Founder of Milk and Madness & Co-host of the Milk and Madness podcast! 👩🏻‍🎤

What is Milk and Madness?

Hey friends, this is Nhi and Dee and you’re joining us for the Milk and Madness podcast, where we talk about those ‘Aha’ or ‘I wish I knew about this’ moments, as a mum, parent, and woman.

We met almost 6 years ago at a mothers group, and now as our oldest kids are starting primary school (!!), we wanted to reflect and share on the experiences and learnings we’ve had, with the hope that it may help you in some way.

It's not just the cost of the food and the pet care and whatnot; it's the mess, the smells, the additional time that it takes to take them to appointments, too, you know, grim them, Etc. Etc. Um, all those things just add up.

It's really important that it's not just going to fall on me because that's not what I want. I just think what you get from having a dog specifically is worth the, you know, picking up their poop.

Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of the Milk and Madness podcast with your hosts, Nhi and Dee. I'm Nhi, and welcome to another episode in our yay or nay, yes or no series. Well, we'll be taking a topic and discussing why we are for or against it. In today's society, we're taking, we're society.

Oh my God, I'm getting deep. In today's episode, we're talking all things, pets, cats, dogs, fish, and everything in between. Firstly, Dee, are you a yay or a nay for pets? It's a no from me. Ooh, interesting. Okay. I'm an absolute yay for it. So this might be an interesting chat. Um, did you have pets growing up? Yes. A lot. Too many.
Everything under the sun you could possibly think of. Um, to begin with, so I grew up in a village, so pets for me were really initially like farm animals, right? So your cow and your goats and your chickens and your ducks and pig, et cetera. Um, and then, you know, dogs, cats, fish, rabbits, mice, like we've had pretty much everything.

What was, what was growing up like for you with pets?

Yeah, we had, um, we had a couple of dogs, um, growing up, but they were when I was a bit older. Okay. So, and they were my dog. They weren't the family dog, they were my dog because mum was very clear if we're getting a dog, it's yours.

And um, yeah, on reflection, I don't know if I was ready to have that responsibility because how old were you? Um. Do you remember? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Early high school, I think when we had our first dog, which I was, you know, I was pretty responsible, and I think I was probably older than other kids my age because, you know, we've talked about the past in terms of, having to grow up quite fast, but at the same time, I would say that I probably wasn't ready to have that full responsibility in terms of having a dog that is just yours.

And then that, you know, dog passed away and then we had another dog, um, a bit later on when I was, um, later high school as well. So I'm a definite yes for pets, um, for many, many reasons.

Um let's start with you, like why, so you had a lot of pets. I'm sensing that maybe it wasn't so positive. I don't know. Why would you, why would you say no to pets now?

No. So, I did enjoy having pets. I'm saying no to pets because it's way too much work. So it's purely selfish reasons. My mom is crazy for letting us have that many pets and that many different types of animals to begin with.

It was great, but we didn't ever really learn the responsibility. So, I never had my own pet, like what you had. So it was always mine and my sisters.

Our mice, we had one each, but yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't call it my own. And it was just a lot of work. They make a lot of mess. They cost a lot of money. They're just a lot. So, in saying that, though, we have gone down the route, which I'll probably continue to do because I do want the kids to experience having pets and having the responsibility.

We have gone down the route of fostering animals, um, cats and dogs specifically, and that's probably what I'll continue to do because it still lets them have that responsibility, but it's short-term. I just, I'm at that stage where I don't, I personally can't take on that responsibility for 13 odd years with a dog or a cat.

And so, thinking about it from a child's perspective, at what age are they ever going to be old enough to have that responsibility when I'm not even old enough to have that responsibility myself? So that's why it's a nay from me. Um, but I do think there are a lot of benefits. And when we do have a foster pet, the kids love it.

They're the ones that remind us, Oh, we've got to feed the dog. We've got to, do this. Et cetera, et cetera. So they get into it. But in saying that we've only had it for a couple of weeks at the most. So, does that wear off? Probably. I haven't had one long enough.

Um, but yes, that's why I'm a nay on that.
Um. Yes. And I think I'm an absolute yes for it because I think the burden is worth it.

Yeah. Okay. I agree.

Yeah. I agree. There are a lot of work. There's so much work and I'm a dog person and I like dogs. Big dogs, like big dogs, dogs are bigger than me.

They weigh the same as me and that kind of stuff. And it's so funny because I've had, um a big dog in the past and she weighed just a little bit less than me. And it was so funny when I walked her, people cross the road and she's like the sweetest dog ever, but people would see us across the road.

Cause I probably thought, Oh, you know, something happened. This there's no way this chick's going to be able to manage this dog. But she was, she was a really good dog. But yeah, I'm a yes because I think burden is worth it and I think that the lessons it teaches a kid is worth it. My approach will be different to my mum's because I am a dog person or a pet person.

The dog won't be theirs. It'll be maybe theirs and mine. we're actually having discussions right now about dogs because I know I have so much on my plate, but I still would like to get a dog. I'm a bit crazy, but, so far we haven't done that yet, but I'm like so close to doing it.

And, um, we've had chats in the family because, you know, Ambrose so far saying he's going to be a dog person. Kenzo thinks he's a cat person, which, you know, I'm quite allergic to cats. So we'll see how that goes, but. It might be a dog that Ambrose and I take care of, or, you know, if we get a cat at McKenzo's, maybe Matt's cat as well.

I don't know, but I think in terms of sharing the load is something that I'll really focus on. Um, it's really important that it's not just going to fall on me because that's not what I want. Um, but I think, in terms of just having this little, this friend that, is going to love you. They give you so much love, they don't get angry at you, and they're so forgiving and just, I don't, I just think what you get from having a dog specifically is worth the, you know, picking up their poop.

And I just remember having to give our old dog Shelby a bath or like a shower and I'd literally, I would have to pretty much get in I was soaking wet after that too. So there's a lot of hard work. With a dog, but I think you just have to wait until your kids are ready to take some of that responsibility and we will wait a few years, although I'm tempted to get one now, but we will wait. We will wait, um, until I know that they can help out a little bit, you know, start with a little bit and as they get older, they progress more in terms of helping out with the, I suppose, the chores that are required with having a dog, but yeah, I think they're worth it.

Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, um, look, don't get me wrong. I am a dog person as well. I love dogs. I feel like the last family pet that we had, um, which we had her for 14 years, and we had to put her down because she just got too old. She was the last sort of pet that we really owned. And I think maybe the trauma of that, like letting her go, I haven't been able to really have a pet since, um, so maybe I need to work on, on that aspect of it.

But, You know, it was, it was great growing up. She was the best dog ever. It does teach kids a lot of lessons, especially responsibility. I think I might have to continue down the foster path, um, and then maybe look at adopting at some stage down the track when the kids are a little bit bigger because to me, they're still too little.

And even though they will help out, I know that they will. I'm not, I just can't, I can't, it's too much burden at the minute for me. That's okay. That's

Okay. And the thing is you, you don't want to get a dog or a pet when you're not ready. And then regret it. Yeah. Absolutely not. Not being able to look after it, which is exactly what's sort of happening.

With this foster situation where people have to then give them up and they don't have a home because they don't realize how much responsibility, how much money, how much time it actually takes to look after a pet. And when you've got kids as well. Trying to deal with all of that. Yes. It's just, it's just too much for me.

I don't want to be picking up poo. I'm like, nah, I'm not doing that anymore. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. And I, I hear you, the poo thing. Like, the thing is, if, if you get, if you have kids and you're already dealing with poo. You're already doing the poo, so you are adding more poo into the mix. So make sure you're okay with that.

And then the other thing that I'm thinking is if you're on the fence about it, , think about cleaning because you know, when you introduce kids to your life, the reality is. Your house becomes a mess, right? And, and where our kids are young, so we're still in that right now, and yes, I know, as they get older, I'm sure there'll be less mess, and then hopefully that kind of stuff, but I think make peace.

You need to make peace with the fact that when you have kids, your house is a mess. When you introduce a dog or another pet, that likelihood is, it's going to become even messier. So Are you going to be okay with that? Are you going to be okay with dog hair? Are you going to be okay with, you know, drool everywhere and, you know, food scraps potentially, that kind of stuff?

And if you're not, don't get a dog. Do not get a dog.

Um, I know that stuff affects my mental health. So it's something that I'm, you know, totally conscious of and, um, have to weigh up in regards to it, but I still think they're worth it. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. Yeah.

And you're, you're right. Cause I know I have friends that are just mad pet lovers.

Especially like some mad dog lovers as well and they could not care less. They couldn't care less about the dog hair. They couldn't care less about, you know, picking up the poo. They just love having the pet. And so I look at them, and I'm like, you're mad, why do you have four dogs? It's just insane to me.

But on the flip side, they're like, but I love them. They love me. They bring me joy and all those things don't bother me. And. They don't have, one particular friend doesn't have kids and she's looking at me going, you're mad, why do you have kids? Like there's so much mess, they cost so much money.

And I'm thinking the same thing. Um, but just, yeah, just different, right? What we choose to fill our lives with is just different. Um, but the dog hair, I noticed straight away, as soon as we had the dog and as soon as we gave him back.

Um, the dog hair, the smell. The cleanup afterwards, I was like, whoa, pets are messy. Even the cat, the cat, although it was small, it was cute, didn't make as much mess, it was a lot more independent and all of that.

But it scratched everything, so everything gets ruined. Yes. So you're to your point about being comfortable with the mess, it's not just the cost of the food and the pet care and whatnot, it's the mess, the smells, the additional time that it takes to take them to appointments, to, you know, grim them, to Etc.

Etc. Um, all those things just add up. So I'm just like, you know what? I'm just, uh, yeah. So the kids really bug me, that's when I know that they really want one at the minute. I think they're just like, that'll be nice to have. Um, but I do see it in them. Like at child care, they had a fish tank and Aiden was obsessed with this fish tank and Amelia loves this fish tank.

So maybe I'll start off with fish. We'll

see. Yeah, fish might be easy. Yeah. They've got a rabbit at Ambrose's childcare and he loves, her name's Sophie. I'm like, oh, Sophie the rabbit. But every morning, he comes in, and he's like, morning, Sophie.

And then when we, when we pick him up at night, he's like, bye Sophie, I'll see you tomorrow. So Matt's like, should we get a rabbit? I'm like, no. Because I don't know, I just, I'm, I feel really passionate when you get a pet, the pet should do stuff in terms of it should be adding to your life.

And I feel like getting a fish or a rabbit that just sits in a, tank or a cage. I just don't feel like it's there. And that's why I'm kind of like, well, I'm allergic to cats, I don't like cats already, but I don't, people don't, don't hate me if you're listening cat people, but I really don't get cats.

I don't get them. I don't see the point. They just, they don't do anything. and they're all over your house, they walk over everything. Whereas a dog, you know, is messy and stuff. Does the same thing. No, they, they love, they give you the love and companionship and stuff. So I just, I don't know, we're not getting a rabbit.

We're not getting a rabbit, but um. Do you think, though, in terms of that first sort of step to teach kids responsibility, having a fish where they have to feed it every day, having a rabbit or a guinea pig or something smaller where they have to clean up after it and feed it every day is like, A stepping stone to your giant dog that you're thinking of getting, your horse, I should say.

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah,

Kenzo used to sit on Shelby, and, um, yeah, that was really funny. But, um, look, it makes sense logically when you explain it like that, but in my head, um, nah. Let's just go all in and get a giant dog. I think this is unprogrammed all or nothing with everything, so that, that it kind of goes with pets.

What are you thinking in terms of like, you said before, you had a dog for 14 years and the trauma of it passing away. What do you, what do you think about that in terms of, know, if we, if we get a dog now, yes, in 10, 12, whatever years, the kids are going to have to, you deal with that saying goodbye.

What do you think about that?

It's a tough one because what actually happened with our childhood dog, was that she got really old. Um, my mom didn't have the heart to put her down. So she actually asked my auntie to put her down. They had her put down while my sister and I were at school. So we never actually got to say Goodbye. We never actually had the conversation.

So I think, you know, totally came from a place of love and it came from a place where she also struggled to say goodbye and she herself couldn't take Rosie in. So she got my auntie to do it, but I think it'll have to be that conversation that comes up around, especially like when they're aging obviously the kids will see that happening, like the dog won't be or cat won't be as, um, playful anymore.

And so it'll be a progressive thing where the conversations will have to come up over time that they're sick, they're getting old. What do we have to do?

So it is something that comes up that you have to talk to your kids about, and it is one of those processes that is good for them to go through grieving, loss, not ideal, obviously when they're little, but I think it is still something that they're going to go through throughout life. So that's the only thing that with fostering, we won't have a chance to actually experience.

I definitely don't want to lose an animal while we're fostering it. Um, so I'll have to think about, yeah, I'll have to think about how I introduce that into their lives. But Aiden's really interested in the life cycle. Like he does ask a lot about, grandparents, they're getting older, they're going to die, this, that and the other. So, um, it's definitely something on their radar. What about with you? You had pets growing up and stuff, how did your first pet that you owned, what happened, and how did you handle that?

Yeah, I was a bit older, so I suppose I knew about death, but your first experience of death is always really intense, and I think it stays with you forever. when my grandpa passed away as an adult, that was really tough and I've taken the kids to visit him.

And my auntie at the cemetery explained to them, in theory, what death is, you know, and we've talked about it in the past. So Kenzo more than Ambrose, cause he's a bit older. And then we've had conversations where he's like, you know, I don't want you to die and I'm like well, it's going to happen when I'm older, you know, hopefully when I'm older and, um, yeah, I think it's just something introduced slowly so that when, if we were to get a dog in a couple of years. When they are a bit older, hopefully that's when, the dog will pass away. And by then it wouldn't be a new concept. It will still be an absolute shock in terms of just the emotional, pain that you'll go through, but I think it's.

I don't know. I think it's also worth it in terms of feeling that pain, but having had a decade of, enjoyment and friendship with this dog, because we're going to get a dog. I think it's worth it. I think it's worth it. Um, how about your thoughts in terms of differentiating pets versus animals we eat.

Yeah. So like I mentioned, um, growing up in a village, we had, you know, all the different, all the animals, um, and it was obviously used for produce, et cetera. Yeah. And so for me, I've always known obviously what animals we eat. My grandparents will cut up a chicken and make it for dinner and all that sort of stuff.

But I've always tried to talk to the kids about this particular pet is our, sorry, this particular animal is our pet. Um, cause I've had Aiden ask me, whether or not we eat certain animals. And I've had to sort of explain to him, we don't like in our society where we live in the country that we live, but in other countries, it might be acceptable to eat this particular animal or this particular pet.

Um, but this pet is ours. So I put a focus on fruit and vegetables. But then with meat, I always try and explain to them where that meat comes from so that they understand that it's not just like this invisible thing that it's just, you go to the shops and it's in a packet, but it was a live animal at some stage and it got killed.

And that's how we, we get food. I obviously don't go into gory details and I don't, um, you know, try and force it. But I just want to introduce the concepts because I think it's important for them to know where their food is actually coming from. Um, and if they're eating steak, where does it come from?

If they're eating bacon, where does that come from? Um, you know, what is bacon? What is this? What is that? And I explained to them how sausage is made. How it, you know, because yeah, I just, I don't want them to assume that it's, I don't know. Like, I just don't want them to think that. Um, I just want them to understand where it actually comes from.

So they have a bit of awareness around that. Um, what about with you? Has that, have those conversations come up?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, I think we're on the same page in terms of that. We talk about how we eat cow, but then when you, when you, when it becomes meat, it's beef. Um, you know what I mean?

Like we've talked about. Without talking about like terminology, but I've told, we've talked about in terms of like, you know, that's a peak, but then, you know, it's poor. And then it's, it's interesting. I think it's all part of a marketing ploy in terms of that stuff to do it, to disassociate people with the animal that they're eating.

Um, that's like another podcast or whatever, but, um, Yeah, we have, we have definitely talked about in terms of. You know, as you said, we might eat this animal, but other countries might have that as a pet and vice versa and that kind of stuff. I've also talked about in terms of, if we were in a country where we weren't lucky enough to have, what we have now, we just go to the shop and it's all cut up and, and ready for you that we might have to have chickens and we might have to kill them because that would be how we lived, you know?

Yeah. So Kenzo has an early kind of understanding but, um, it's definitely something that we can talk more about as, they get a bit older . Cause I think it is absolutely important um, and to understand what it took for those eggs, for those eggs to get to the shops, to get to our fridge.

And that is not easy. And, um, yeah, I think that stuff's really important. We are right now quite, I wouldn't say we're big meat eaters, but we'd like our meat. So, um, you know, they both like their steak.

They both love, you know, like pork chops and that kind of stuff, but they need to know where that stuff came from. Absolutely. Absolutely. 100%.

Yeah. I think about, potentially down the track when the kids are a little bit older, like maybe taking them to a farm or watching a video, like a child appropriate video where they've gone to a farm and they talk about the process.

Because I remember, like I said, even though I grew up and I saw my grandparents, cutting chickens and milking cows and doing all that stuff. When I was overseas with a friend and that happened, Um, I think it was a duck though, I don't know why, but it actually like, it really shook me. And I was like, this is so confronting. Even though I grew up seeing that stuff.

So then I think at some stage, not now because they're too little, but at some stage it would be good, I guess, to introduce that.

Um, to the kids to really understand where their food is coming from. And I really want to get quails as well, chickens. Um, just like an understand that the eggs a, because they eat a lot of eggs. So it's like, it's cost effective, but you know, it'll be part pet part, getting food from them.

Um, and just understanding that sort of life cycle that this is actually the broader picture is that we eat animal products. You can choose not to if you want to, but this is how it works.

Yeah.

Alright, so just to wrap up, it's a nay from me on pets.

It's a yay from you, but not cats. Just giant dogs. So I was going to say, oh yeah, there it is. I'm not going to say the pun. No, don't do it. No, I'm not. As always, we'd love to hear from you. Are you a yes or no, yay or nay for pets? And if you have some already, do you have any tips to share with us? What age did your kids get pets?

Do they help out with chores or is it all on you? Until next time, take care and give your furry friends some extra cuddles from us. Catch you later, friends.