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Join couple-preneur Ruth and Brian Steinmetz as they share their expertise in real estate, design and social activism. As co-founders of “Steinmetz”, a real estate brokerage and interior design firm serving mainly Chittenden County, Vermont, they explore the intersection of wellness and the art of conscious dwelling through what they call dwellness. They’ll cover topics like equity- in all its forms, environmental and social justice, conscious consumption, mental and community health and so much more. Each week, they discover more about dwellness through unfiltered and nuanced conversations with change-makers, dreamweavers, and many more awesome and inspiring people.
Change your life, your home and your community by discovering what dwellness means to you.
Welcome to the Dwellness Podcast. I'm Ruth Steinmetz and I'm Brian Steinmetz. Join us on our journey to discover the connections between physical and mental wellbeing and our dwellings.
Well, welcome one and all yet again to the Dwellness Podcast. We're going to get started right away with our quote of the week, which comes directly from the source today, Mr. Devin Bailey. And it goes something like this. It is never what actually happens that causes us to have a bad experience. It is what we add to those things in terms of meaning and narrative.
The latter is what impacts our lives. What do we think about this quote? This is the first time that we've ever quoted our guest in the quote of the week, by the way. So I guess what I really want to know, first of all, Ruth, um, how does that hit you? And then we'll talk about where it came from, Devin. Yeah, um...
First, I'm thinking about how we are, uh, we are such, um, consumers of stories and that's how we, um, experience our lives is through stories. And really, even when you're trying to give someone a lesson, it helps when you add a story to it and it builds connection that way. But at the same time, The double edged sword of storytelling is that sometimes we um, because we're
so obsessed with stories and that's how we like to frame our experiences, we need to be careful of what story we're telling ourselves, um, regarding what we're experiencing. Cause it can, um, it can make or break us and it can also distort what's actually happening instead of expound or explain or make sense of it.
So, um, just like with, you know, fiction versus nonfiction or, you know, an inappropriate or misplaced story in a, in a, in a situation, it can just distort everything. So. Yeah, that's what it makes me think about, stories. Your explanation makes me think of Jesus and parables and how he taught most of his great lessons through storytelling.
And most poets like, um, like Shakespeare meant Romeo and Juliet to be a cautionary tale. Yeah. Mr. Bailey, what is it that you thought of it? Or what were you thinking when you wrote those words? How long ago was it when you wrote this book, the book, by the way, how to escape from prison for you. We'll talk more about this soon.
Yeah. Four years ago. Wow. It was the realization. In fact, there's one particular experience that brought it home for me and I'm going to do exactly what Ruth talks about and tell a story if you don't mind, please. It was actually an involved me being in the shower. Don't worry. I'll keep this PG 13 and it was, there was a morning where I was.
Newly free, if you like him on my entrepreneurial journey, I had stepped out of my corporate career and I was, I was building my coaching business or at least starting to, and I was reflecting on how cool it was that, you know, frankly, I didn't need to be anywhere in particular, any point in time. And that my time was my own.
Sure. I had calls, meetings, emails to attend to, but I had my own time and I planned in my head that I would treat myself to at the time. I really enjoyed flat white coffees. Yes. And I was going to go to my favorite coffee shop down the street and get a flat white entry and I was going to work from the coffee shop, you know, like a proper entrepreneur.
And, um, you sure you weren't a screenwriter at the time? Maybe. And I, when I was in the shower shampoo in my hair, I heard the doorbell ring. And I realized in that instant that it was a very well known, uh, furniture delivery company that I won't mention the name of, who was delivering an item of furniture.
And instantly those dreams were dashed immediately. I knew that I wasn't going to get my coffee. There was going to be a fluster. The dogs were barking. It was chaos. And immediately I felt robbed. I felt like these guys had not text me. Before they were going to arrive, like they said they would, they had deliberately shown up at an inconvenient time.
They somehow on some level knew that I wanted the morning to myself and had planned since they woke up to ruin my day. And I was livid for a fraction of a second when I thankfully caught it and realized that all of that was completely made up. And I'm standing there desperately trying to wash the soap out of my hair.
I thought to myself, what is actually true about this situation? Like, what do we actually know to be fact? And that is, there's a person with wet hair and the sound of a doorbell. That's it. I didn't even know at that point that it was for sure the delivery people. I didn't know that it meant I couldn't have my, I made all of that up.
And in one second I was, I was happy and looking forward to my flat white. And in the next second I was angry because I felt I'd been inconvenienced. And all that had happened was this sound. Ding dong. And I just realized that I made it all up. Yeah. You actually mentioned this in the book, I immediately recognize that story.
Yeah.
We, we have here, uh, with us kind of in our studio via, via zoom or what have you. He's actually in Boston right now. Uh, we have with us Mr. Devin Bailey, a past client of mine and good friend who has quit his corporate job four years ago. Right. Yep. And started his own. Uh, coaching business, uh, called shaping reality.
And a lot of it, if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, sir, but, uh, a lot of what you're talking about is being aware of, of what's actually going on with your life and shaping your own reality within yourself, right? And so a part of this. The chapter that you were just talking about is the third tool that you mentioned, which is presence.
Um, and you go on to say that, um, you think of it like a vanilla ice cream, right? It's neither good or bad. It just represents an event or situation in its present form, right? Yeah. And then if you pour shit all over the ice cream and then you complain it tastes like shit. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So, that happens to me, and Ruth can attest to this, uh, rather I do it far more often than I would, uh, care to admit, honestly.
Um, I mean I just, you know, we ran into this situation earlier today where I was, um, complaining about something I have no control over and she called me out on it and the complaining got worse. So, I appreciate the... The call out and the opportunity for growth. Um, and I also appreciate you putting it down in black and white for us.
Yeah. Yeah. Vanilla and shit. Yeah, exactly. Well, all I can say is welcome to the human experience. I mean, if anyone said they don't experience that, then they lie about other stuff too. That's true. And I, it's, it's tough because... Tell me if you guys disagree. A lot of the time, we want things to be a certain way so that we can feel the way we want to feel.
Hmm. And I don't know about you, but I get tired sometimes trying to control all the people, places, and things around me. And I'm slowly learning that it's actually easier to shape my experience based on what I pay attention to, the meaning I attach to this. It's easier, eh, correction. It's harder, but it's more logical.
To shape the experience from within, you know, go, go back to that silly, that silly shower story. It turns out it was the people delivering the furniture and I did not get to have my flat white and the dogs did bark. And I realized in that moment, I just, I said to myself, you can choose Devon for this to mean whatever you want it to mean.
Could mean that you've been inconvenienced, could mean that your day's gone off the rack. Sure, your wish is my command. And so I said to myself, again, while I'm desperately trying to wash the shampoo out of my hair, what would you want it to mean? And I suddenly thought to myself, there's probably at least two guys at the door.
It was a heavy piece of furniture being delivered. These are two human beings who have goals, dreams, and desires of their own. Two human beings who have taken time out of their day to carry something very heavy that I couldn't carry. They've shown up to my door earlier than planned. But on the day they said they would, they're going to bring in, assemble something I ordered that I had to do nothing for except tap a few buttons on my phone and it showed up.
They're going to be nice, they're going to be courteous, they're going to have me sign a piece of paper and they're going to go on with their life. What an absolute blessing that you didn't have to do a single thing, Devin, and this piece of furniture showed up. Now, that's just as made up as the other story.
I'm not saying either of them is true, but I felt very, very different about the experience when I chose to focus on that version than the one that said, I don't get to have my coffee and I've been inconvenienced. And I think that's the beauty of it, is I would rather be a person who opens the door to a delivery person.
Pleased to see them and grateful that they've showed up with their delivery than a guy who is pissed off because he's been inconvenienced I would just rather be that guy Either way the doorbell rang. I can't do anything about that. I can do something about the version of the guy these sweet people get to see when the door opens and I don't know why such a silly story Hit me.
It was just a realization that It's all made up So maybe we try a little bit harder to make up stuff that is empowering rather than stuff that's not That's really cool. Yeah, I like that too. Yeah. It makes me, mm-hmm. , and for the record, that's not me suggesting for a second that we should relish tragedy or that we should seek out hardship or that, you know, anyone is meant to be joyful when they get some sad news.
That's, that's not at all what I mean, you know. Feelings are feelings. It's just in those instances when we're so quick to be pissed off, frustrated, annoyed, irritated. There's definitely another side to it that we could choose to focus on if we put in a little bit of effort.
Yeah. Well, that speaks directly to my soul. I can tell you that. Yeah. Um, we certainly want to get more into that and uh, more into the insights you've um, Brought out or you've come across and explained in your book and in and in what you're doing in your life. But before we get into that, I want to make sure, Brian, that you have finished Devin's introduction and we can get into the first question.
Yeah, I believe so. He is the author. With the exception of this, I will say he is the author of How to Escape from Prison. Which I am enjoying very much thus far. I have not had the chance to finish it, despite it being on my bookshelf for some time. He was kind enough to autograph it for me, as you can see here.
I appreciate your honesty, Brian. Yeah, yeah, I didn't want to, uh, you know, I don't want to... I am here and now, and I do not want to do any false pretenses about this, but I am going to finish it. It's very conversational. It's, uh, it's a wonderful, um... Uh, it doesn't really throw a lot of heavy concepts at you or big words or anything like that.
It's just like you're talking to a good friend, uh, for, for an extended period of time. And he's just being like, listen, bro, you got to just, just calm down and think about these things. And he gives you 10 tools to help you with it. And I thus far, I'm really enjoying it. It's an easy read and it's, you know, it should be on everyone's.
Not on their bookshelf, just on their bookshelf, but in their minds, you know, it's, it's could be consumed, right. It's about 200 pages and it, and it flies right by. Yeah. You know, so I have no excuse, Devin, honestly, to have not having finished this other than I just haven't gotten to it. Uh, which is, which is lazy.
But I'll, I'll let you know what I think of it when I'm done, and maybe we can add an, uh, an addendum to this podcast perhaps. Yeah. You can, um, make a blog post maybe. Oh, yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. That's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. So, he also, I have also had the privilege of attending one of his seminars about two years ago, shortly before I met you actually, um, one of these shaping reality seminars and it's, um, he does a good job, uh, as a life coach.
I might actually hire you. I could use some help with a few things. So, yeah, yeah, um, shape our reality, sir, uh, with, uh, an answer to, uh, To, uh, Ruth's next question or first question, I should say. Yeah. Uh, our first question that we ask every guest is, uh, as you know, this is the Dwellness podcast and, uh, it can mean whatever it, it should mean to you as we're all, uh, kings and queens of our own narratives.
So what does Dwellness mean to you? How do you find your dwellness? By the way, I have to say I love the name. Thank you. It very much resonates with me. For me, what I hear and feel is this concept of a sanctuary. I love the idea that our home, wherever that may be, um, it could be temporary, you could be traveling and find home, or it could be where you choose to put down roots, that you feel safe.
And you feel like you can relax and by relax, I don't necessarily mean lay down and put your feet up. That's nice too. I mean that you can put the armor down. And I know you know what I mean, that you can, that you can just sit and be. I think we're very much human doings, all of us in Western society. And we forget that we're actually human beings.
And I like the idea that when I'm in my dwellness, my home, I can just be. Uh, and it's a way I can recharge and decompress and get ready to go back out there in the world and do whatever it is I want to do. That's what it means to me. Sanctuary safety. Nice. That's lovely. Uh, I especially like the idea that you largely work from your sanctuary now, don't you?
I do. Yeah. In fact, I was talking to a client earlier. Actually, we're looking at some office space potentially. Uh, cause I've, I'm starting to think I would quite like, it's funny now I work from my, my studio is downstairs in the basement. Um, and I love the fact that everything's. Within a close quarters, the gym, everything, I'm starting to think I would quite like some separation because I realized that commute, even if it's a short walk versus, you know, a long train into the city, it does produce an opportunity for us to.
Change our state because you know, we're different people when we're sat on the sofa versus working out in the gym versus on a podcast versus having a deep and meaningful conversation with a spouse with different versions of ourselves. And I'm realizing that the commute time actually does provide us an opportunity to change state.
So I'm looking at possibly renting office, which is, which is funny timing. Um, and for now, very much made a little sanctuary for myself here. Hmm. Okay. Nice. Um, we encountered the same issue or a similar issue where, I mean, we both work from home as well. And when you're a couple who is in the same space, day after day with, uh, and it's, it's, it's a, it's a well sized townhouse, but it doesn't have um, um, Private dens.
Yeah. Or we like a basement, for example. Yeah, exactly. Um, so it, it just, uh, becomes really hard to retreat and, and, uh, we're both introverts and we need that retreat to, um, recalibrate ourselves. And so just having that, um, external space where we can transition from home life to work life. Yeah. And vice versa, it was starting to become more, uh, of a priority and that's why we came into Hula.
And I really like the fact that we come into the studio to do our recording and we're not doing it in the house on top of everything else we're doing in the house. Yeah. Uh, even though we, we totally have mics and everything, we were going to do it originally, but better judgment got the best of us, I think.
Yeah. Yeah. And it served us well to just have this.
Yeah. And Will's a great producer, too. And I don't, uh, I don't pretend to think that I would have the capability of setting up this with you in Boston. Uh, while also, uh, uh, being able to, you know, there would be much, much more. Many more technical difficulties. I think if I was doing this by myself, despite having studied film and, and, and being, uh, technically capable, it's just, yeah, I'm not as, as good as it, as other people are.
And it's, it took a lot of me breaking down my own ego to, to admit to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We don't have to be everything all the time, even if, you know, Sometimes needs must and you have to, um, break out of your own shell or, you know, push yourself to, to do more than what you're willing to do. And, you know, give yourself that extra skill set to be able to do it.
Uh, but sometimes it's, it doesn't mean that that that's what. It's going to work well for you, you know, in considering all the things that were on our plate, adding this on top of that would have just been, I tell you, it would be much more than a week between each episode.
It's funny, it's funny that you two bring this up now, because this is something I'm going through with this new product I'm developing because there's people helping me. And they're just better than me at what they're doing. And there's a part of me that says, if you're not doing it, then, you know, there's something wrong with you or you're not playing your part.
And I'm slowly realizing that no one ever did anything truly meaningful or impactful on their own. I don't think that's the point. I don't think whatever the grand endeavor is, whether it's the Dwellness podcast, some kind of online learning platform, writing a movie, what producing and whatever it is, I don't think life, God, whoever, whatever you believe in.
I don't think it was designed for us to do it in isolation. I think it was designed to be everyone bringing whatever their part is to the table. And it's a co creative process. And it's interesting, Brian, you said ego because it was my ego that was getting in my way. Right. When I cast that aside, I just, I'm happy to say, okay, cool.
Thanks for your help. You go do that. And I'll, I guess, sit here and whatever, just to be, be busy being a CEO
or something. It's just to do everything. Yeah. Never. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I mean, and sometimes. You can be pushed to that, um, emergency situation where you have to like, you know, take care of three different pots on the stove. Yeah. Um, but it's not a permanent thing and it shouldn't have to be a permanent thing.
And, um, I pride myself in feeling like competent in whatever I'm doing, like, Oh yeah, I can take care of that. I can take care of that. But it doesn't mean that I should be doing that all the time. And it's actually not good for my body and my mind to be doing that all the time. And so I, I need to be able to just let go even of that, like creative control of like.
Letting other people handle other things, even though I feel like I can do that, you know It is a huge ego thing and I guess also like a perfectionist thing to just want to do it the way you have it in your mind and Executed and and you know hack your way through stuff Which can be detrimental So, I'd like to tell a story, speaking of storytelling.
You and I have been talking about staying in our own lanes quite a bit recently. Because I had a tendency to swerve all over the place. Especially when we were first getting started. You And, uh, uh,
And not a salesman soul, despite the fact that I now have a real estate brokerage that's all my own. Um, I say that I share it with Ruth, but she doesn't have her real estate license. So my lane is to make the sales and make the calls and go to the meetings and sell the houses. And I totally forgot that.
And I allowed myself to step on Ruth's toes as the designer. Uh, and she obviously was not. Pleased with that. And it took me far too long to get back into my own lane and Actually do the work of selling houses and bringing in the money so that we can keep doing this thing. Mm hmm Yeah, so that's the another story.
I'm not proud of but You know, um a big part of growth is making mistakes and Learning from them And that's what that's what I'm trying to do Right. Here we go. Right ahead. Yeah. And I just want to, cause it's happened twice now on this podcast already. I just want to acknowledge you for owning them. Well, thank you.
Because I've got a lot more. You want some more?
Like we all do. And I think a lot of people may be present company excluded. A lot of people don't make it a habit of owning their shit. And everything's someone else's fault. So yeah, sure. Maybe you made a mistake. Maybe you trod on her toes, but bless you, man. You owned it and you course corrected or I assume you course corrected.
I'm in the process of continuing to course correct. Okay. And don't worry. Your lovely wife will continue to remind you that's wives. Do you have a tendency to do that? But seriously, you owned it. Right. And I, and I pride myself on when I make mistakes to go back and say, Hey, you know what? Yeah, I screwed up.
I'm sorry. It's something I'm working on. You know, can you help me with a b c, but a lot of us don't want to do that because then we admit we're human. Yeah, there's a vulnerability to that. And you feel like you're exposed to some sort of harm, but It's not harm. That's another story that you have in your head.
Oh, if I say I'm wrong, then, you know, then what, you know? Um, so I, and I, I totally resonate with that. Just being able to just own it. Not because there is some potential, like negative consequence, but because it is what is needed for you to be able to get it. Over to the other side, like first, you know, Brian, uh, keeps saying in this podcast, the like from a, the first step to, um, admitting, I mean, yeah, the first step to solving a problem is solving that there is one.
Yeah. Admitting that there is a problem. And so like, when we deflect from, you know, owning the, um, the action, then it becomes a delayed opportunity for growth. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that's really well said. Thank you. I just would like to echo exactly what you said until we, we really look at ourselves in the mirror.
We're not going to like what we see every time we glance at it. You know, we have to look deeply at who we are, what we do and, and who we're affecting. Uh, and if it's negative, positive, what have you, but There's always room for improvement. So, the shape of my reality is, uh, get off your ass and do something.
So, coming back to you, uh, Devin, um, I'm really intrigued by your journey from, You know, the transition from corporate life, uh, because I know that's, uh, this lady is a mind reader. I swear I was just, uh, pulling out, um, the, the day things changed on page 22. Uh, uh, I recall the day things changed for me. Like it was yesterday.
Can you tell us that story? Yeah, I was in Orlando international airport. Yeah. If anyone has operated in the corporate world and tried to take a vacation, They'll understand the following. You pay for it before you go away, and you pay for it when you get back. Because the time you take, forget the fact that it's hard to disconnect while you're away, everything that needed to get done while you were gone gets squeezed into the days pre and post.
Now I made a double mistake. First was taking a vacation. Silly me. And the second one was the week I got back from vacation, I was actually at a conference and I was teaching. So I got back and couldn't access my computer to do anything. So it was doubly, I'll call it, stressful. Uh, and I remember when the conference was over, it would have been a Friday, I guess, I was heading back um, home, flying from Orlando to, to Newark.
And I was sat in the airport trying to catch up. On email and messages and whatever. And it was, I was just drowning. That's just drowning hundreds and hundreds of emails. People sending me nasty messages like where's this, where's that? Remembering stuff that needed to get done, which didn't panic, panic, panic, panic.
And I just kind of had this moment where I just said to myself, like, this is nonsense. Like, what are you doing? Like, this is ridiculous. You got to, I don't know what it is. I'm not suggesting you quit your job and leave Devin, but this is preposterous. You're sat in an airport. Wanting to be sick with anxiety because of emails, like, dude, your life's unmanageable.
And it was kind of one of those moments where I just gave myself a bit of tough love. I didn't really know what I was going to do, but I knew I needed to make a change. And then I had this really strong compulsion to look up. And I see in the distance, she must have been, I don't know, 50, 60 feet away.
This young woman come into the terminal area. And I was incredibly attracted. I don't mean as in, I mean, she was a very pretty woman. I don't mean attracted in that sense. Just drawn to what? I think the analogy I used in the book is like a kid who's supposed to be doing his homework, but he's watching his favorite TV show.
Like I couldn't not look and of course she walked all the way across the terminal and sits down on the sofa directly in front of me. Of course. And I remember her sitting down with a whole bag of stuff and kind of making a scene of it. And then she randomly looked up at me and she said, Do you like reading?
And I thought, Hi, how are you? Okay, random question. And I said, yeah, sure. I like reading. And she said, I'll have a book for you. And she leaned into her bag and she grabbed a copy of this book from me, a bright red book. And she handed it to me. And I turn it over and I look at the back and it is all about a burnt out, stressed out corporate person who's promised to make changes in their life and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I just, and I thought, uh, this is weird, uh, how, what on earth is going on here? It was a, one of those coincidences. I now know don't exist. And I looked up and we get to talking a little bit and I thought, what, what's, what's the harm? I'll let my guard down a little bit. So we started talking about how I was really stressed and, and things were a problem and I was overweight and unhealthy and we have a problem with drinking and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And, um, she could tell I was definitely weirded out by the kind of coincidence of it. And she just stopped me in my tracks and I will never forget this moment. And she looked at me and she said, You know, we met for a reason, right? And it was just a, it seems like an innocuous statement, but it just, it hit me.
And it was the first time in my, at that point, what, 33, 34 years of life that I stopped and I swear, I looked up and I went, okay, I heard that. Like, got it. That was something else. And it just made me for the first time think there was another path. I didn't know what that meant in terms of job. I didn't know if that meant money would magically show up.
I didn't know if that was relation. I just, it made my brain go, huh, maybe there's another way. And that was all it took to open, open things up and have me explore different ways of thinking being. And I started studying and reading and attending events. And yeah, seven years later, my life is unrecognizable.
Wow. That's incredible. It can't have been easy. I mean, I'm sure there were moments where you were like, because I also left corporate and I think for me, the realization was that I'm just not built for it. This is just not who. Um, I am, you know, just basically what I said, I, I'm not built for this kind of life.
It's not made for someone like me. And I am trying to like put myself like a, you know, a pet, a round peg in a square hole. Like I'm, I'm trying to fit and kind of make myself square, but I can't, I just can't. And I am experiencing the negative consequences of that. Um, And, but at the same time, there is a sort of, um, cushioning that corporate life can give you that can, um, sort of smooth out the uncertainties of life and delay those kinds of like deep questions around.
What am I really supposed to do? So how, how were you able to stay the course, so to speak, right? Um, once you figured out that this was not for you, I love that question. The short answer is I didn't realize it wasn't for me at that moment. It took another couple of years to realize that, um, one because I was so.
stressed, like in the true sense of the word, nervous system was shot, lifestyle was unhealthy that that's not a place from which to make life changing decisions. There was some cleanup to do first. And the second reason is I promised myself that I would figure it out in that environment before making an environmental change.
The best analogy I could think of is sometimes we have friends who have, um, the same kind of relationship crises over and over again. And then someone kind of lovingly says, I'm really sorry. It might be you like, yeah, you know, you feel bad, but it keeps happening. You're like, why do I keep meeting people like this?
I can get back to you. It was one of those things where I thought if I just quit or I do something different, if I remove the stressors, great, that might solve the problem in the short term might create other stresses. Am I really learning from it? Am I really getting stronger, figuring out how to handle it, or am I just going to take the problem, which is me and my wiring, with me?
So I promised myself that I would, and I was working with a coach actually at the time, I promised myself I would find a way to love what I was doing before I left it. Because I decided that if I can find a way to love the thing that nearly killed me, then surely... I, I can, I can call that a win. Surely I can, I can claim some growth from that.
So that's what I, I promised myself I would do. So to answer your question, how did I stay the course? It was, I made up in my mind that either I was going to figure out how to love it. And that's the answer. I love it. So I'll stay. Or from a place of being happy and healthy and connected and grounded and wholesome and all that good stuff.
Surely. It would be clear what the next step was. I just, I rolled the dice on that, and trusted that it would, it would play out, and of course it did. Which doesn't mean it was easy. Yeah. It's still not. Every day is a challenge. It's part of the human existence, isn't it? But that was, but Ruth, to your point, I didn't, I didn't say that day I'm done with corporate.
That day I said, if I can't, if I want my life to change, then I have to change. And that was a really hard pill to swallow, um, because I kind of felt like I tried everything else. Tried controlling everyone, pretending to be someone I wasn't, doing things I didn't want to do. I tried everything out there and I thought, well, surely then maybe all that's left is if I want to feel different and my life to be different, I have to be different.
I mean, it just, it just seemed like a logical place to go. Yeah. As much as it wasn't fun, can you tell us more about how you found love and what you were doing, even though it was clearly like killing you and, and you were, you were ready to, yeah. Um, do you want the practical answer or do you want the woo woo answer or do you want both?
I want both. Okay, I'll give you the practical answer. The practical answer is just like the turd on top of the vanilla ice cream. I stopped pouring it over the ice cream. So things that would trigger me, I'll give you a really granular example. An email at five o'clock on a Friday from my boss that I think sounds like she's annoyed at me um, would trigger stress and anxiety.
Like all weekend long probably, right? Yeah, yeah. So I analyzed what was going on. I'm making up that she's mad at me. I'm making up that it means I'm going to have to work late. I'm making up that if I have to work late, my girlfriend at the time, now wife, is going to be mad. Uh, I'm making up that my weekend is going to be ruined.
I'm making up that it's going to impact my rating at the end of the year. I'm making up that that will mean I don't... Da da da da da da da da. The list goes on. I'm making all of that stuff up. So instead of pouring crap on the ice cream, I looked at it and said, well, the only thing I know for sure is that there's an email in in my inbox from this very influential person that I work for.
That's all I know for sure. So I would breathe and try to make myself feel calm, and then I would look at it objectively as best I could, and then I did the craziest thing, and that was go and talk to her about it, and say, like, are you mad at me? Because your email reads as though you're mad at me, and sometimes, yeah, you should have done this.
Oh, I'm sorry I didn't. I'll do better next time. Or, no, not at all. Just do it on Monday. It's fine. I just, I, I actually stopped making shit up. And, and try to just be a human. That's actually really powerful, I have to say. That, uh, yeah. So, that's the practical answer. Okay, give me the woo woo now. The woo woo answer is, because I spent more and more time focused on the elements of things that made me feel good, And I don't mean in some, like, hedonistic fashion, but, um, deciding that she's not mad at me instead of deciding that she is, because one feels like relief and one feels like dread.
You know, spending more time above the line emotionally and learning to challenge my thoughts and attach, I guess I would say, more empowered, more constructive, a better word, more constructive meanings to things. I noticed that the more I felt at least neutral or good, The way people acted and behaved around me changed.
I got fewer emails at Friday night. Meetings that I didn't want to attend disappeared from my calendar. Uh, I came up with ridiculous creative solutions to problems in meetings when everyone else is really stressed. I would go, how about this? And everyone would say, Oh my God, that's genius. Well done. And the meeting would finish early.
So people, places and things around me started to change once I started to change the way I viewed them. You're talking about the law of attraction. Yeah. Yeah. Back back then. That's exactly what I was trying to enact. My view of it now is a little bit. a little bit softer, which is just that I think when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change because you can only feel and experience what you pay attention to.
Um, and, and yes, I am talking about law retraction. Yeah. Yeah. It just, it was wild. It was fine. That for our listeners that may not know what it is. Yes. This concept, I say as a concept, I mean, you can, if you speak to it. physicist, they would say it's fact, but we'll go with concept is this concept that we are vibrational beings and that our thoughts and our feelings produce an electromagnetic and electronic field around us and that that actually attracts experiences into our world.
Like an easy way to describe it is I bet everyone has had that experience where they thought of an old friend. Really lovingly, like, Oh, I remember that time when, and then they've called you or text you and gone, Wow, that's crazy. Well, the theory goes that we actually, to a certain extent, create and construct the experiences of our lives based on what we're thinking and what we're feeling.
Um, said another way, we attract experiences into our day based on what we put out. That's the, that's the concept. So, the more I focused on, I'm not good enough, I'm going to be in trouble, I'm not going to get that raise, she's pissed at me, well, sure enough, the more evidence showed up to suggest that that was the case.
More emails. More difficult tones in conversations, people banging on my doors and interrupting me, me not having enough time to get anything done. And the more I thought, you know what? Screw this. I belong here. I'm good at my job. People value me. The more stuff happened to validate that. Someone would give me a pat on the back.
My boss would give me some space. I'd randomly get compliments. Meetings would move out of my calendar that I didn't want to attend. Someone would solve a problem for me that I hadn't even told them was a problem. You know, just stuff happened to make my life easier. So, so folks can believe the practical answer or the woo answer or a combination of the two, whatever, the point is, I had a better time, I was, I was feeling better and enjoying myself more because I chose to.
It really speaks to that creative element that we have that's really powerful, but we, we don't really necessarily see it as power, but it really is. It's some sort of. Force that we have, we can exact on our environment or first on ourselves that has an impact on on our environment and you know, visible, invisible, whatever, what have you, it's there.
And once we learn to acknowledge it and tap into it, then we can become more in tune with how it works. Yeah. Um, it also makes me think of, Um, are you familiar with the story of Moses in the Bible?
Give me more. There are several stories. Which which part of which one? So there was the part and I hope I get this right.
So he was he reached the Red Sea. Um, with all the Israelites with him and you know, the pharaoh is all pissed and wants to uh, pay back for all the plagues and losing his son. Um, so he's, you know, hot on his tails and he has the sea in front of him and he's like, what do I do? And um, and the first thing that he hears because um, you know, according to the story, God was speaking directly to him and Interacting directly to him.
It was like, what do you have in your hand and he, and he looked at me, he had his staff and that's what he used to part the sea. Um, it makes me think of, um, they're a big part of what we can do with our environment or with our circumstance and situation is first of all, acknowledge what we have, uh, in our hands, what we have in our, um, You know, in our beings, in our environments, first of all, before we can look to external solutions or, you know, in addition to that, you know, um, because we have this, um, vibrational energy and this, um, if, if this aligns with you, this external, um, um, divine presence that is also helping guide you, it, There is what is needed in that equation is what is already there.
Um, and, um, and the beauty of it is that as flawed and as imperfect and as incomplete as we are, that is actually exactly what's needed to get to the next step. Oh man, I love that. There's a quote I have on my wall. It's made up. And it's a quote from God and it says, you lack nothing, use what I gave you.
Yeah. In any given moment, and I try, I try, like I screw up, I get mad, I get frustrated, I say the wrong thing, of course. Human, sorry about that. Um, in any given moment when I feel stuck, I do consciously think to myself, what, what do I have at my disposal that I can use right now? And I'm convinced.
And I heard, Ruth, when you shared that lovely insight you just shared. I'm convinced that it's never the problem that's the problem. Problems are real. They don't go away just because you pretend they're not there. I get that. We all have challenges, crises, and I feel for people who are going through hardship.
The problem is never the problem. It's the state that we're in when we approach it. That's the problem. If we can find a way to clean up our thinking, clean up our state, energetically shift however we want to go and then look at the problem, we'll see it very differently and we'll have those insights. I kind of, can I give you, I've got time for a quick example.
Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. This is one of the most wild examples of, of intuition helping me out. This was when. Going back, Bruce, to your question about leaving the corporate world. So I wasn't, uh, I was a square peg in a round hole like you. It wasn't that I didn't fit and bounced around. I actually reshaped myself to fit.
And after 15 years, my body said, F you, I'm not doing this anymore. And I had a breakdown. So my experience was different to yours, even though I was still a square peg in a round hole. And when I had realized it was time to go and I'd found a way to love it, I was looking for my practical exit. And it would be irresponsible of me to just jump ship.
You know, I had this big career behind me and I wanted to continue to provide for my family. So I was looking at part time opportunities. I was looking at contractor roles. I was going to do. Get another job that was easy at one point. I was on a call with a recruitment consultant in New York City, telling them that I basically want an easy job where I can just mail it in and she's like, ah, looking at my resume going, well, there's a CFO position available at one of our startups.
And I was like, no, no, you don't understand. I don't want you to get me a big job on you. Get me an easy job. And she's like, I, I, I does. I can't help you. I don't understand what the hell you're talking about. And I tried explaining this change I was making in my, no one got it. Okay. And bless my, my wife, she was trying to tap into her network and she was looking at jobs online for me and trying to find all of these opportunities and nothing was sticking, nothing was landing.
And there's one morning I was in our home gym, I was working out, so my energy's high, right? And I'm thinking more openly and more practically about things. And I literally just finished a set and I swear to you, I said to myself, this is stupid, Devon. You are relying on your wife searching job ads for you.
Why don't you just leverage your network? And then I swear to you, I heard a voice in my head. I dunno whose voice it was. It said two words. Text Kate and I went, okay. And this is the, I, I won't say her last name, but this is, uh, an old friend of mine. We used to work together many years ago at the firm I was at.
She had long since left the left, the firm. We hadn't spoken for maybe 18 months or so. I randomly text her and said, Hey, thinking of you looking to make the jump from the firm like you did got time to chat that later that night. We're on the phone talking and she was talking about a part time opportunity that was coming up.
It would have to be a contractor role. It would have to be someone who only wants like 20 hours a week. You'd have to come and go as you please. It was... Bummer. Specifically... And she's like, it's a very unusual role. It's all about process improvement and the technology side of it and getting great ideas.
And I stopped and went, Kate, you know... Like that's literally what I do right now for the biggest professional services firm on the planet and she went, oh shit. Yeah, it is Do you wanna come and do that for me? Three months later I left the firm and start two months after that I started the role with them and doing two days a week with them was making the same money as my old full time gig.
Yeah Devin what if I told you that life isn't happening to you? It's responding to you There you go. And you know what? It feels like a roll of the dice and, and it feels like I'm never gonna, I'm never gonna advocate for someone to be irresponsible and to chuck their life away and not have a plan B and burn the boats and all that kind of, you know, real kind of stuff.
Scary stuff. I, I think, I think we're grownups. I think we need to think carefully. I think we need to acknowledge that we share this life with others and that our actions have consequences. I think all of that stuff, let's all be sensible and hold hands and look after one another, but let's also not sweat the small stuff.
And let's also get into a good feeling place before we approach a problem because we see things so differently. And I think the biggest belief I've taken on board is the one Brian, you just read out, which is. Look, I don't, I don't know. What I'm about to say might be absolute B. S. that I believe that life is happening for me, not to me.
So when something bad happens, I will experience the emotion of it, the sadness, the upset, the guilt, the grief, the whatever, and then go, okay, cool. So, there has to be a good reason for this. What was it? And I set my brain searching for what the utility is. I don't know if that's true, guys. All I can tell you is it makes me infinitely more capable of handling the hardship than it does if I look for someone to blame.
It works. It's all about where your energy is most effective, including your brain energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you, according to your book. Yeah. You started to see the world as one giant playground that has infinite possibilities based on your attitude towards the playground. There are kids that are terrified of the jungle gym and there are others that just swing right across it.
Like my dog. And it's all about, yeah, and it's all about their mindset towards it. Yeah. Yeah. It's no more risky for one kid than it is the other. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And I think when we surround ourselves with people who were fortunate enough to love us and want the best for us, and we surround ourselves with people who are like minded, you know, you two doing this together, like how incredible is that that you not only are you in love and married and have a wonderful blended family, you also going doing this business venture together and you're like minded and you encourage each other to grow.
I mean. When, when we support us, when we surround ourselves with people who support us and think like that, we have that safety net, we have that support structure, and it allows us to play a little bit more freely in the playground. Yeah. It's kind of having, you know, like, knowing that there's a guardian or a parent, you know, sitting on the sidelines just watching us and making sure there's no dangers.
Yeah. You know, that we can't handle. That's right, because there's a difference between fear and danger, isn't there? Yeah. Fear is what holds us back. Fear of not being enough, fear of being ridiculed, fear of being rejected. But a real danger, I'd like to think we'd be able to spot, or at least someone who loves us would go, don't do that, Devin.
That's, you're going to get hurt. Yeah. It's very key. Uh, I do have some, uh, hey ma, look at me moments at, on the jungle gym. I'm not gonna lie about that . It's just like . They're like, what I can do? And then I just like totally trick myself. on this metaphorical jungle that we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
And I bet you learned more from them than you did from the ones where you took it easy. I, I gotta say I, uh, I learned more from Ruth than I do from most of my other life experiences 'cause she's just so honest with me about. Hey, you're messing this up. Do better. I know you can do better. Do better. Yeah, I've been doing the best I've ever done in my life ever since I met her.
Oh, that's really sweet. Yeah. That's very true. And I really also admire your, um, Bravado. You know, you just go into it. Yeah, there's no hesitation. Meanwhile, I'm just conscientious to a fault. I'm like, but let's plan and let's like, you know, strategize it. You're just like diving into it. Go for it. I think it's a good balance of like, um, risk taking.
And also thoughtfulness. Um, yeah, I'm the idiot that just dives into battle without a shield and she's just like, bro, like, you need, you need to prepare. Let's strategize here before we just like start fighting this fight. But yeah, it's, it is a great combination and I love being. In this business with you and in this relationship and, uh, uh, Devon, we're, we're expecting another child.
I don't know if you know that or not. Oh, I did not know. That's amazing news. Congrats. We're what is it? 11 weeks on no 12 12 12. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. Oh, you think I would keep better track of it? I do have a countdown on my phone. That says, uh, 192 days. Yeah, I mean, it's 11 and a half, technically. So, okay, well, you know, I was half right.
Yeah, every day matters. I'm getting less and less sick. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's wonderful news. Congrats to you too. Thank you. Thank you. And you're a relatively new father too, aren't you? About how old is your kid? She's two. Yeah, terrible twos. How's that treating you? Amazing. She is, um... Oh man, she's so sassy.
Oh yeah, that's hilarious. That only gets worse. I had no idea how funny and sassy kids were. Oh yeah. Can I, can I, please can I tell you a little story? Yeah, of course. Yeah, please do. This actually, to be fair, was a few months ago. Uh, we're going through the potty learning at the moment. Um, this was yeah, maybe three, four months ago.
Um, I was putting her in her car seat in the morning to take her to school, and I noticed More than one of my senses let me know in that moment that her diaper needed to be changed. Mm hmm. So, I remember thinking in the moment, Oh man, that's like back inside, disturb the dogs, she's then gonna want to change her outfit, there's the diaper change, uh, by the time we get back out the traffic's gonna be, all this stuff.
And I started processing in my head, maybe I can just put her in the car seat anyway. Pretend that it happened in the car and hand her over to daycare and I, and then I wrestled with it for a second and I thought, no, that's not, that's not okay. Devon, do the honorable thing. Go back inside, change your diaper.
She gets to school when she gets to school and I turned to her and I said, should we just go back inside and change your diaper? And she went, yeah, so I got her out of the car seat. I picked her up. I put her over my shoulder. I swear to you, she patted me on the back. Okay. She turned her head to the side, looked me right in the eyes, and she went, Good boy, daddy.
Oh my god! Like, you little shit. Literally.
Who taught you that? Well, she gets it from somewhere.
Did you sense that I was wrestling with a moral issue? Kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. Good boy, daddy. They're very intuitive. Oh, wow. Yeah. So patronizing. But to them, it's like, oh yeah, the honesty. Yeah. It's their whole world. To the point of being cruel sometimes. Oh yeah, I don't know.
There's no filter. Yeah. I appreciate kids for their, their honesty like that though. Because like. Adults are not like that. They'll be like, no, it's fine. It's fine. And then they'll suffer a little, get a diaper rash and they'll be pissed at you for the duration of the diaper rash. Instead of just being like, you need to change me.
What's yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Completely . Well, need to change that. I mean, that's a bad analogy for an adult, but you know, depends on Right.
we get the point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think it's a good analogy actually. . Yeah. . So have you come, uh, I mean you wrote the book four years ago. Mm-hmm. , um, now you're a dad. Yeah. Has, yeah. Come on. Has there been any added insights? Yeah. From. Yeah, I'm sure there have. Is there any one that you would like to share at this point?
Yeah, there are honestly probably another 10 different tools. So I thought, despite, and Brian, I appreciate you mentioning this, despite the, the book being conversational, I think somewhat soft and encouraging and like a bit of a chat between friends. That phase of, well, let's call it personal development for me was all about.
Being tougher, being stronger, taking responsibility, stepping up raw, you can do it, powering through. And there's a time and a place for all of that. It's really important. I think taking responsibility for your existence and your actions is the cornerstone of personal development. And I'm realizing that that's not where the real power lies.
The real power lies in much softer, much more intangible tools like surrender, faith. acceptance, vulnerability. So that is the second phase of my journey is learning, um, what I call the softer, much more open values and virtues. Um, you know, discipline, action, presence, like, boom, they're powerful. Got it. Love it.
Great. Got to do it. But surrender and faith, they are what are needed to get you ultimately where you're going. And I definitely learned. Those more by, by having a daughter, you know, here's a, here's a real life example. Birth is terrifying. And for, I have no idea, absolutely no idea what it's like for the mother.
And it would be incredibly disrespectful for me to suggest I even have any idea what you, what you amazing women go through. For a guy, it's terrifying. And there's about that much we can do about it. That was the biggest lesson I've ever had in faith, surrender and presence. My job on that day was to be there and to trust the process.
And there was a huge amount of power in that. And it's the opposite of control. And that messed with my head. It's more powerful to trust and be there than it is to try and control it. Really? And it truly is. So that's. That's the phase of the journey I'm in now is, is understanding really how we shape our experience and our realities is through the softer virtues.
Yeah, that's well said. Well, I can't wait for your next book because I feel like another one would be coming. Would there be? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have actually started. I've started it. I don't have a time frame yet, but I have genuinely started it. There is a partially drafted manuscript. Excellent. Well, when that is complete and ready for publication, we'll be sure and have you back and you can talk more about that.
Beautiful. I'll expect an early draft. So you can critique? No, no, not critique, but so that I can actually read the damn thing before. Just to defend you, brother. Um, I read a statistic once, although I realized most stats are made up. Something like 90 percent of self help books never get read. Yeah. So go easy, man.
You're in the 10%. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people buy them with really good intentions and then they just get shelved. Yeah. Um, for a number of periods. And I also think that a lot of them get gifted, like here, I noticed you're having a problem with this thing.
It's
like, go fuck yourself. Not to um, with a lot of. Elements, um, at play that are taxing and are taking up a lot of your, your brain space. So now that you're just sitting around watching TV and doing nothing, you're, you're, you have a stack, a stack in front of you every day and, uh, I try and chip away at it every day too.
Yeah. But. There's just not enough hours in the day to do all the reading I want to do. It's okay. No. Yeah, I feel like we're eternal beings and we have, we have much more time to learn and play and it's okay to not, to not do it all at once. And that's something to learn from our kids, goodness being that they know how to play and use their imagination and be present.
Oh my goodness. Like, all my daughter cares about in any given moment is what's right in front of her, and goodness me, she's, she gets the juice of everything out of it. Whereas we're thinking about the meeting we have, and we were late for this, and da da da, we time travel, don't we? All the time. Yeah, don't finish, I didn't finish this, oh, I'm a failure, oh, ah.
Yeah, I just, uh, I just finished reading, actually, the chapter you have on presence. It's one of your ten tools. Yeah. Uh, that, um. I'm just going to read them out. Uh, gratitude is the first one, which is oh, so important. Uh, belief, presence, disassociation. I haven't gotten to these ones yet. Integrity. I hope I know how to do that one.
Uh, meditation is a big deal in my life as well. I'm looking forward to getting to that one. Responsibility. And resolution. And I think if you were to amend the amend these right now, you'd add two more that are, um, uh, belief and surrender. So yeah. Surrender faith acceptance.
I'll think of some more. I think that, uh, the fact that you mentioned surrender is really apropos too, because Ruth actually has surrender tattooed on her arm. Oh, lovely. It's her only tattoo. My only tattoo. Versus, you know, I've got, I've got 50. Yeah, yeah. I actually had that done, um, after my first divorce, which was very, Hmm.
Um, but yeah, it really tested my
faith and I moved back to Kenya for a while and a big part of it was just surrendering and, uh, and, and trusting the process of healing, which is, which takes a long time. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, here's to being here, being present and, uh, enjoying your. Lovely guesting here, Devin. Um, and I think, um, uh, unless you have one last thing that you want to share with us, I think we are ready to ask you the last three questions that we ask every guest.
Oh, I want to hear the three questions. Hit me. Oh, yay. So the first one, we're bringing it back to dwellness. What is one domestic task you do well and or enjoy?
Home improvements. Ooh, nice. Fixing something that's broken. Love that. Such a manly answer. Yeah. It really is just like, let me fix stuff. Gimme a hammer. Gimme yeah. Fix it. A hammer and tight measure on many bodies. Yeah. Yeah. nice. I love a good, uh, d i y thing. Oh yeah. She's, she's a huge d iyer. She's got always has projects going in our house.
One, one of the things that Ruth enjoys doing is upcycling furniture. Mm-hmm. . Oh, nice. Our entire house is, is practically. Somebody else's. Oh, that's brilliant. Or it was. I, I do love the whoopsie paint aisle, um, in any home improvement store, cause I'm like, woo, let's see what colors we have today. Yeah. Well, nobody else is
going to have that color ever. Yeah. the next chair. Yeah, exactly. Um, the next one you want to go ahead. No, no, no. This is this. I'll do the last one. Okay. Okay. Uh, so the next one is Star Trek themed. Um, Yeah. Yay. Yes. I'm a truckie. I'm glad that you... Everyone's super excited about this one and I don't want to take it from you.
Okay. So let's imagine you're a Starfleet officer sent out on a mission, about to go on a mission for an indeterminate period of time. And you can only take three personal items. And this is like following Star Trek rules. So like mobile phones don't apply. Uh, so what would those three items be? Three personal items.
So food and drinker. 'cause I can use a replicator, I assume. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Three. Yeah. Your food is supplied. Your, your communication is supplied. Yeah. Do we? Although my mom said Kenya tea because you know, star Trek will screw it up. ? Yeah. . Yeah. Um. I would say, does my whoop count? Cause I really love measuring my vitals.
Oh, sure. Yeah. Okay. So I take my whoop and I don't even know what a whoop was. It's one of those wearable. We have, we have, um, uh, Apple watches, which I imagine does something similar. Um, I would take my, um, serenity coin. Nice. Um, Wow. Is that like an AA Yeah. Yeah. Essentially not for alcoholism, but for codependence.
Yeah. Is it? Yeah. And it's, it's all, it's, it's all about family and serenity and, and that's the role of life I'm stepping into right now is making, is, is being the end of a chain of dysfunction and toxicity in my family line so that my daughter never knows it. Good for you. Yeah. Thank you. Um, that's.
That's definitely something I'd, I'd want to take with me cause I can't replicate that. Um, three things. Two thirds of the way there, buddy. You're almost, you're almost through. Do you know what's so funny about this question is I've realized that it doesn't, this suggests that I'm not that materialistic anymore.
I once upon a time I would have gone out in a Ferrari and now I'm like my woop. Where are you going to drive a Ferrari in outer space though?
Isn't that funny? So coin whoop and yeah, probably. Probably whatever book I'm reading at the time, like I get a little bit, I get very attached to whatever book I'm into at the moment. It's a book by Terry real called us, which is all about relational life. I probably take a copy of that. So we actually allowed one of our guests to take a trunk full of books since it's an indeterminate amount of time.
Yeah, I would take my library collection. There you go. Thank you. I've never thought that would come out. My wound, my serenity coin, and my books. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Because you know what's so funny? If you'd asked me that question seven years ago, you would have got a douchey, douchey answer like all my tailor made suits and my, it's funny.
You actually have a section, you actually have a section in your book that I've read so far that talks about, um, or maybe it's not in your book, but it's in your, the materials that you have available that says, uh, You know, you used to dress for success and now that you, you started wearing skinny jeans and hoodies and you're, you're, you know, you look younger, you feel younger, you're happier.
You've got this, you know, the first thing I noticed when we linked in today was that you, you look 10 years younger than I knew you seven years ago. Isn't that funny? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not pretending to be someone I'm not. Yeah. Also, you know, you're not having to drink every night and, and, and, you know, eat shitty food just to get through the day.
Yeah. Right. I have found a similar experience as I moved on from my previous brokerage and started working with. So high five. Yeah. All right. Last question, Devin. Yes. What is one thing that can instantly make your day better? Oh, right. Oh, it's I can't believe this just came up. I'm going to answer a hug.
Oh, I like how that's so corny. Doesn't it doesn't matter. Let's make everybody feel better. Actually, what came out of my mouth. But that was a heart for me. Yes, a hug. How funny. Well, give me the 10 years ago answer a pint. No, some kind of accolade or praise. Yeah, because that's the only thing that would make me not feel like dog shit, is I needed a dose of attaboy.
Whereas now, I value human connection and and wholeness more than anything. I can really say, and I swear I'm not just making this up, this has come up multiple times with multiple people, there is not enough money in the world. To stop me doing what I'm doing now, that is not to say if there's a generous benefactor out there who wants to write me a large check, I wouldn't accept it because it means I can go faster, but I honestly, it is what 325 on a Tuesday, even with, I'll make it up 100 million in the bank account.
This is where I want to be. I want to be here with you two talking about this, like there is not enough money in the world. And. I don't know how you value that, like, I, that is the greatest gift there is, and it's priceless, literally priceless. There is, there is nothing that will stop me from doing this.
Doesn't mean I can't enjoy nice things and whatever on the way. So my value now is around self expression and connection and those human experiences. Whereas previously it was materialistic because I was trying to fill the hole of pretending to be someone I'm not. Yeah. Wow. I think it's, um, I just want to take a moment really quickly before we end our show.
I think it's appropriate that you said that praise thing, that attaboy thing, because I've been telling Ruth for some time, and the more I say it, the less I believe it. That my, one of my love languages is, uh, is, uh, words of affirmation. Words of affirmation, yeah. Yeah, and I think that I would much rather have a hug, uh, at this point in my life, than...
Then like a genuine, like, Oh, come here, baby hug. Then, uh, you're doing a great job, blah, blah, blah. Because like, I look at the things that I've actually achieved in my life and they're so hollow that they don't deserve necessarily to be praised. And I have so much further to go that an attaboy just makes me feel like, all right, I can stop for the day.
Whereas a hug makes me inspires me to do more. Wow. Yeah. Interesting. The deeper stuff. Yeah. The deeper stuff. Yeah. That's what we're here for. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Wow, dude. That was right on. I share that. All right. Well, I'm glad that, uh, uh, I'm glad that I shared it as well with everybody. Yeah, this conversation has felt like a hug and if you were here with me,
I know I'm definitely going to give you one when we meet each other. If you're okay with that. A hundred percent. Yes. Awesome. Yeah. Are you going to come up to Vermont to do some skiing this winter? Yes. In fact, we were talking about that last weekend, trying to figure out timing of that potentially in, uh, during the holidays.
We have, we've, we've carved out a week off in between the 25th and new year. So we're, we're thinking about, um, coming up for some skiing. Excellent. Well, we will be around. Yeah, I believe. And I'd love to. Yeah, yeah. I'd love to catch up and say hi to you and your, your lovely wife and your baby and all your dogs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All three animals, the two dogs and our daughter. Yep. That would be great. A new Sassafras, yes. Seriously.
Alright, well thank you so much Mr. Bailey for taking the time to chat with us today. We really appreciate it. And it has been enlightening and heartwarming and many other words. Attaboy. Where do we find you though? Where do people find you? Oh yes, of course. So, devonbailey. com Or on LinkedIn, Devin Bailey, those would be the two main platforms.
You don't have shapingreality. com anymore? I do, but it now reroutes to Devin Bailey. Okay, well, excuse me. Yeah, no, no, it's quite alright. But yeah, no, I do still have shapingreality. com. Everything's still out there, but yeah, we're um, actually undergoing a rebrand. Rebranding. I was just about to say you've rebranded.
Yeah. Yeah. We are Rebring. That's awesome. Yep. Yep. . Yep. We have a little logo now, which is a little climbing a mountain. You'll, there there'll be more on that, uh, in the not too distant future. But yeah. Go to devon bailey.com or find on LinkedIn. Excellent. We will do that. Thank you so much, Devin.
The Dwellness Podcast is produced by Steinmetz and recorded at Dialed Studio at Hula. Our audio and video production is handled by Syntax in Motion. Our audio engineers are Wesley Davis and Will Davis. Our show producer is Will Davis. Intro music is by Sam Barsh and outro by Ian Koloski. Artwork and promotions by Snicket's Public Relations.
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