Maximum Lawyer

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE


Most PI firms obsess over “more leads” and ignore the single number that quietly runs their entire business: average fee per case. In this crossover episode, Chris Dreyer (Personal Injury Mastermind, Rankings.io) sits down with Tyson Mutrux (Mutrux Firm Injury Lawyers, Maximum Lawyer) to unpack how he nearly tripled his average fee by mastering bad faith, redesigning the client journey, and installing a Cares Team that doubles as a 5‑star review engine.


Tyson breaks down how he went from roughly 7.4k to about 24k per case without relying on lottery-ticket verdicts, and why most high-volume PI firms leave policy‑plus settlements on the table because they simply don’t understand bad faith. You’ll hear his simple explanation of bad faith, how he pits the insured against the insurer ethically, and why that unlocks settlements over limits for clients while funding a serious marketing war chest.


Then, Tyson flips the conversation from numbers to people. He walks through his “Complete Injury Law” mindset: mapping every stage of the client’s journey from the crash scene to case resolution, solving transportation, medical access, and life disruption so injured clients don’t lose jobs or miss care. That deep empathy led to building a dedicated Cares Team that shadows cases from start to finish, checks in on real life (kids, ballgames, surgeries), and protects high-value files over months or years of litigation.


Finally, Tyson reveals the psychological script his team uses to turn that client experience into an unstoppable Google review engine. Instead of awkwardly begging for firm reviews, they position the review as a “gift” to a specific team member, then remove all friction with direct links and clear prompts. Chris calls it one of the best review strategies he’s ever heard, and together they connect the loop: bad faith drives higher fees, operations protect those fees, and reviews convert that excellence into a durable marketing moat.


If you’re a law firm owner who wants to build a business, not just a job, this episode is a masterclass in aligning litigation strategy, operations, and marketing around one goal: bigger fees and happier clients.


Timestamps
  • 00:00 – Cold open: why your average fee matters more than more leads
  • 02:00 – Tyson’s North Star: average fee vs. CAC:LTV
  • 06:30 – The 80/20 shift to bad faith (and why most PI lawyers miss it)
  • 11:15 – Bad faith in plain English (how to go over policy)
  • 15:00 – Spending 8k to make 24k: the math of a PI marketing war chest
  • 19:30 – “Complete Injury Law”: fixing the whole problem, not just the file
  • 24:30 – Inside the Cares Team: empathy as an operational system
  • 28:30 – Mapping the client journey with a giant Kanban board
  • 32:00 – The review “gift” script that Chris calls ‘the best advice I’ve heard’
  • 36:00 – Closing the loop: from bad faith to marketing moat

Resources:

Creators and Guests

Host
Tyson Mutrux
Tyson is the founder of Mutrux Firm Injury Lawyers and the co-founder of Maximum Lawyer.

What is Maximum Lawyer?

Maximum Lawyer is the podcast for law firm owners who want to scale with intention and build a business that works for their life.

Hosted by Tyson Mutrux, each weekly episode features candid conversations with law firm owners, business experts, and industry leaders sharing real strategies and lessons learned in the trenches.

If you're ready to grow your firm with less stress and more support, this is your next must listen. Subscribe today.

Chris Dreyer 0:56 This is personal injury mastermind. I'm Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of rankings.io the elite performance marketing agency for personal injury law firms. Today, we're talking with Tyson Mutrux, from Mutrux firm injury lawyers and maximum lawyer. He shares how to maximize your average fee using bad faith claims. Why? Dedicating care's team is your firm's ultimate financial moat and the exact psychological script to turn happy clients into an unstoppable Google review engine. Now, usually I'm the one asking questions around here, but Tyson flipped the script on me right out of the gate to ask about the one metric I focus on to measure a company's health. Let's get into it.

Chris Dreyer 0:01 If you've listened this podcast for a while, you know, I've heard every marketing tactic under the sun like it's way harder to get a Google review today than it was five years ago. It's just people are done with it.

Chris Dreyer 0:13 It's the harsh truth of local SEO. You can move mountains for client, but getting them to actually cross the finish line and post reviews feels like pulling teeth. Usually, the only time when people go out of their way to type something out is when things go wrong.

Chris Dreyer 0:13 People are more likely to probably give a negative review at this point than a positive review. I'm just saying generally because, like, then he's gonna trigger thinking like, oh, because they're pissed off about something. But today, Tyson metrics drops a strategy for generating five star Google reviews that's not only brilliant, but it aligns specifically to what he's doing in his firm.

Chris Dreyer 0:48 So here's where the magic is. Maybe in that situation is that may be the best piece of advice I've ever heard. What is the absolutely brilliant thing that Tyson is doing to get those five star reviews? You'll just have to keep listening.

Tyson Mutrux 1:36 What is your one number that you focus on? It's it's different for everyone. So what about for the company, though, for the company, by its like, do you have like, a number for the company?

Chris Dreyer 1:45 So the main one I'm dialed in right now is CAC to LTV ratio. That number, okay, very nice to me. That's the health of a company, right? Everyone says the cost acquired case, and that number is the is the true leading indicator of if you're going to be profitable or not.

Tyson Mutrux 2:03 So it's funny for us, I like average fee for our firm, yeah, average fee, because you can look at a lot of things from average fee, if your number starts to go down, it could be an indication of lot of different things. And you can start to tweak things and look at it. It could be maybe you're settling your cases too slowly. Maybe you're settling it too quickly, it can indicate a lot of different things. And so we know if we're on track, if that number is steadily increasing. Whenever I first started tracking that number, we were like, $7,400 a case, which is super low. And by the way, we don't, we don't include like, the high end cases, like, so if we set like a case for like seven figures, we're not throwing that into the mix, so because it'll skew the numbers big time. So ours is right around 24,000 just under 24,000 so it's increased significantly since I started tracking, I think 2015 or something like that. And it's been like a steady, gradual, gradual growth. That means that every single one of our cases is worth at least a state minimum, or actually, it's way more than that. So if you that's our average fee. So it's basically triple what the state minimum is, right? So that's a significant increase. And I also think it's way higher than than the average firm.

Chris Dreyer 3:12 What were some of the the big 80/20, things that you did to to get to that, that case, value, how did you identify it was a problem? And then, kind of, like, how did you approach like, increase in it?

Tyson Mutrux 3:22 It's interesting. How did I identify was a problem? I don't know. That's a question I have actually never been asked. Let me think about it back when we actually that's been over a decade since we've been doing it. Um, I don't know. I think I accidentally started tracking it. I think it's probably what it was. It started with that. And then I guess 8020 is we started that. One's probably an easy one, where I'd say, when we first started tracking this, we were not super great at bad faith. We just weren't, we didn't have, as a firm, not a strong understanding as to what bad faith meant when it comes to settlement dollars. And then once we started to shift towards that, that is one of the hardest things to explain to any lawyer. I think at least in Missouri, it is. It's kind of like the Nick rally approach, because it is such a It feels almost like a mythical thing that doesn't work because they don't see it happen that much. If you go to like an average volume firm, they're typically not using bad faith as an angle to try to get more money out of the settlements. And when we made that shift, I'd say we probably made that shift right around 2017 is really focusing and hammering on bad faith and working on getting excess verdicts and excess settlements. So that was probably the 8020 if we're gonna look at that. And it's really kind of funny. So we brought on attorneys that have a lot of experience, and they came from firms that didn't focus on bad faith, and they come in and they're like, they kind of, it's like, deer in a headlights, like, What are you talking about? Bad Faith? I remember having a conversation with a guy, I will not tell you what city he's in, because it would. Probably say who it is. He was heavy on radio ads, and I had coffee with him. I was talking to him about bad faith and everything, and he's like, What do you mean bad faith? And I had to explain to him, bad faith. This is a guy that was spending a ton on marketing and had no idea what bad faith is. And if he had an understanding of that, he would be able to get a lot more money for clients. It'd be better for the profession too. Back to what I was talking about with our when we brought our attorneys, I had the same I've had the same conversations with attorneys that have had a lot of experience, and they have just never seen it happen before. And the first time they see it happen, they think it's like magic. They're like, Oh my God. Like you settle the case for over the policy. What are you talking about? It drives me crazy whenever I hear attorneys say things like that, because, like, this is what we do. This is the center of what we are doing. Is when on the legal side is attacking when it comes to bad faith.

Chris Dreyer 5:47 How do you think about, you know, the attraction side, though? I mean, you know, first of all, your your feet, maybe you're like, Oh, well, I'll pay five or $10,000 for a case, or 5000 because I'm, you know, I'm 5x on the ratio.

Tyson Mutrux 5:59 So we actually funny. I have this conversation quite often. So our marketing team, it's funny because they're always trying to spend less money. And they're like, Well, you know, to get these cases, we have to spend X number of dollars. And I say our average fee is $24,000 like, if I can spend so I always use, like, a high number, say, if I can spend $8,000 to get one case and get $24,000 on it. I'm gonna do it every single day. But it's funny, I'm always fighting that because they're always wanting. It's kind of like the nature of our firm. We're like, we're always trying to, like, do we even need that thing over there? Okay, stop spending money on that thing. So it's part of the culture too, where we've kind of got that built in. So I'm I'm kind of fighting, fighting the culture that I'm built a little bit where, like, we, everyone's, like, trying to maximize every penny. So it's part of that. But it, it is kind of funny how, like, I think if I were in that department, I would probably be fighting for, let's spend more money. Let's spend more money. But I guess that is, that is interesting. So one of the things I see a lot. And I bet you see this too. Whereas people were, they're making money, right? They're making money, making money. The marketing thing that they're doing is working. And they're like, Well, I gotta it's just expensive. I want to shut it down. But are you? Are you getting cases from it? Yes, so don't shut it off. That's that drives

Chris Dreyer 7:17 That's what drives me nuts. I have this all the time. Will they do a rob Peter to pay Paul? You know? Like, of course, one channel is going to be better than another. That doesn't mean shut down the one that's not, you know, yes,

Chris Dreyer 7:28 Absolutely, absolutely, I'm the non attorney. Can you give me? This is the simplified version.

Tyson Mutrux 7:34 Simplified version is, is that you send the demand the insurance company low balls you so they have placed their insured at jeopardy of having their personal assets at jeopardy, at risk. And so because of that, we pit the insured against the insurance company, kind of get them to team up with us. And because of that, the insurance company's willing to pay more money than the policy. That's in a nutshell, that's oversimplifying, is what it is.

Chris Dreyer 7:59 I think I heard Hanna John Morgan's really entertaining. I like listening to him because he's also, at this point in his career where he has no filter and doesn't not care. And I think he was on Patrick, can I cuss? Yeah, he has no fucks. He gives no fucks. So I heard, I think he was on Patrick bet David or or the mice first million. And he gave that example about, hey, now you're in bad faith and, and so I'd always wanted to understand that, but, yeah, it's so that's incredible. In the example you gave the 8000 I mean 8000 to 24 is a three to one ratio. And from what I've been told in professional services, anything three to one or higher is healthy for profit,

Tyson Mutrux 8:35 Which is awesome. Anyone that's not doing that needs to change what they're doing, pick up running with the bull by Nick Rowley and educate a little bit, if they've not already that'll give them the framework, the general framework, and then you they can tweak it from there,

Chris Dreyer 8:56 Like we have. We just heard how Tyson leverages bad faith claims to triple his average fee and build a massive marketing war chest. But to protect those high value cases over months or years of litigation, you have to realize that you aren't just managing a legal file. You're managing your clients now disrupted life. Listen to how Tyson maps out the absolute lowest points of a client's journey to build a concierge experience, and why he completely separated his customer service team, from his legal team. The other thing too that during the research that came up, it's like you have this soup to nuts, this concierge level approach to a case, right, where you're, you are really taking care, I mean, from rental cars to, I mean, you're really, I think of that Alex hermosi, you read his 100 million dollar offers, like, what's a good offer? On the denominator, it says, you know, faster and decreasing effort and sacrifice. I mean, you are making this very seamless for them. So talk to our audience about that, the impact it's had on your firm, like that approach.

Tyson Mutrux 9:58 Yeah. So it's funny. I remember I got the URL complete injury law.com it's still a URL that we use, but that was like, sort of the mindset. We called it complete injury law is how we how we focus on it, and it's it was even to the point where I've had this conversation with other attorneys too, and they've thought about doing the same thing, where we even thought about getting a fleet of cars that while we are let either the client can't get a rental car, or, let's say it's an uninsured motors claim, and they don't have rental coverage that they can use one of those cars. We ultimately decided not to. It just didn't make sense to do it. But we really take the whole approach where if you can't get to a doctor, we make sure you eat to the doctor. And the whole idea is, is that it's going to increase the value of the case. And it's obviously about helping our clients and everything. But most of it centers around getting the clients to the doctors that they need to get to, and making sure they make to their appointments, because that affects everything else. When it comes to the case, from start to finish, I like how you put it soup to nuts. We really do take that approach. We do like little things too, where this isn't necessarily when it related to that specifically, but if a client has someone in their life that dies, like there's a button we can click and they can add a couple notes, and it's it sends flowers out to them, like things like that. Where we really want to take this, I don't know if I like the word holistic approach, but we kind of like take this holistic approach that there are all these aspects of a client's life that are affected. We've got this massive Kanban board. It's massive to the point where you have to get to each column, you have to zoom in. And we usually do this as a team. What we do is we broke down every single stage of the case from the client's perspective. So you're at the scene of the crash, like, what are you thinking? We break it down by like, what's going through their mind? Okay? Like, what are they feeling? Who Are they contacting? Who is it that they actually have contact at that very moment? So all these things, we break it down, like, each one of those little slivers is broken down into all these different questions that we ask and then answer, and from start to finish, and then we kind of, like, develop like, okay, what can we do surrounding that? And it's funny, I really haven't talked about this in particular because I think it's such a cool thing. Think it's such a cool thing. And one of the questions is that, what is something that no one else is doing, that we could do? And that's one of my favorite questions when it comes to that, because we get to that sliver and we answer that question, and that's where the magic happens, because we've just gone through all right, who are they in touch with at this point? You know, what are they feeling? You know, what are they thinking? What are their concerns, all these different things, and then, like, Okay, what's everyone else doing? And what can we do that's different, and that you get so many great little nuggets, and we're not able to adopt all of them sometimes, like, like, the idea of the US buying a fleet of cars for our clients doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you factor in other things, but you get little bitty ideas that make a massive impact. I'll tell you immediately.

Chris Dreyer 12:43 I think when you tell a story like that, anybody that's been in an accident, think puts themselves in this their shoes, like when you just were you giving that example? So I was thinking of myself, even though I work with attorneys and I've been through this, when it happens, there's like, anxiety, and it's just a blur, right? And, like, I think that, hey, I need to get in touch with my wife and work, right? You're all stressed about work. And like, yeah, it had been nice. Like, Hey, do you want us to get a hold of your wife? Do you want us to do this? And it's like, because your phone might be messed up, or, who knows? Well, like,

Tyson Mutrux 13:13 Have you ever had surgery before? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so then you know how disruptive it is. Like, so I was rear ended a couple years ago, and I'd have shoulder surgery from it, and I remember it's amazing, like, the things that I was thinking in my head that I'd be able to do right, and in reality, everyone else knew I was not able to because, like, the people I'm surrounded by are, like people in my firm, and why my wife, who also works for the firm, and they see with all these other clients, there's no way in hell you're gonna be I was thinking I was gonna be able to sit in my bed and take depots while I was in my bed, you know? And they're like, you're gonna be on freaking pain meds, right? But I remember thinking how helpless it felt because I was in bed for a week, a couple days of that, like, where they give you that, that nerve block, I can't even raise my arm, you know? I mean, I couldn't use my computer. It was all these different things. Your life stops in some aspects. And when you don't have a vehicle and you have, like, that's why it was like, such a big deal for us to make sure people can get to their jobs. People get to work because, let's say you're, you are on the lower end of the income scale, right? Usually those jobs, they're hourly based if you don't make it, even if you've got a good excuse, guess what? Bye, bye, you're getting fired. Their life stops. And so a big part of was making sure that they could get to the doctor after work, like you have to accommodate all these different things, so making appointments for them and figuring all this different stuff out, it's a massive thing, because it just not have that one thing, not having a vehicle in this country, is a massive deal

Chris Dreyer 14:46 That deep empathy led to the cares team. It's an incredible operational setup, but here's where we bring it full circle, back to marketing. Asking for a review as a firm can feel transactional and awkward, but watch how Tyson makes that authentic human connection and. Built by the cares team, and flips the script your reviews. They name the individuals which speaks to the personal relationship, so they mention Kristen and Bianca, the friendly voice the Kristin keeps the chaos in check. Imagine when you ask for the review like, Oh, no sweat. Like I got you well.

Tyson Mutrux 15:22 So the key to this, one of the one of the keys, there's many keys of getting your reviews, Google reviews, for anyone that's trying to get them, like, it's way harder to get a Google review today than it was five years ago. It's just people aren't done with it. People are more likely to probably give a negative review at this point than a positive review, not necessarily with our firm. I'm just saying generally, because, like that then is going to trigger. They're gonna be like, Oh, because they're gonna go because they're pissed off about something. But one of the keys to it is, like, one of my favorite tricks is it's something along the lines of, because we have what we call the cares team a part of the whole complete injury law was like, is what we call our cares team. And our cares team is basically there from the beginning to the end. I say basically because they're not working on the case. The cares team, a part of it is actual leads and converting clients all that, but it's it acts as sort of like a customer service department where they check in with them. We wanted that continuity, instead of them getting handed off to someone and then never having some sort of continuity, because we do have it split up, where you have the cares team, you have pre lit and you have litigation. So if you go from a lead to pre lit to lit, I mean, you're being basically being passed up to three different teams. Care's team hovers along the entire time, and then from start to finish and checks in with a client throughout. So that was a big part of it, where they're checking in. So the key is where I was kind of teasing the key. Let's use Krista, or, for example, Krista or Krista. We have a lot of K sounding names in our firm, but we'll use Kristen. So let's say Isabelle from the care team. She calls and she's talking to you, and she's like, Hey, Chris, you know, how are things going? The whole idea is to, like, see how you're doing, checking in on you. And you're like, you know what? Kristen has done an amazing job. So here's where the magic is. Maybe in that situation, Isabel says, you know, Chris Kristen would love to hear that. Hear that. And one, like, one of the things we pride ourselves with is Google reviews. Google reviews. And if you would just leave her a review on our firm page, and I'll send you the link and just mention her name, it would mean the world to her thing, like, something like that, where, yeah, it's not Isabella asking for a review for her, you're giving a gift to Kristen, is what you're doing. Because you, you are so appreciative of Kristen, you're giving her a gift is what it is that's the magic in that. I think, by the way, that

Chris Dreyer 17:28 May be the best piece of advice I've ever heard. Because I think there's three parts of this. The first part is what I see a lot of attorneys do wrong is they'll ask for a review for the firm, right? Because I always encourage people to ask for the individual, but then now you're saying the gift component, and hey, leave a review for someone else. Oh, wow, yeah, that's, that's amazing. That's, that's awesome.

Tyson Mutrux 17:51 She haven't changed the dynamic so much you are. Oh, my God, I would love to do that for her, because she's been so great to me. I would like people like giving gifts like they really do. The next hurdle is removing all the friction, right? What's the friction having to go on there? Like one your daily life is happening. But you also like, which link is it like? Because especially have multiple offices, like, which one you make it freaking simple. Here's the link. Would love. Love for you say a few kind words about Kristen, blah, blah, blah, you know, like, that's you

Chris Dreyer 18:18 Do it. That cares team, I guess you use, like, a case status or a Hanna or something to keep them updated. So would they kind of take over more the client service communication compared to the case manager, like, break it down, just a little bit more of the differences. For me, here's the main difference.

Tyson Mutrux 18:36 The cares team just calls the check in to see how they're doing. It's pretty simple. It's someone calling you from the firm saying, Hey, Chris, I'm just I know, I listen. I know looks like you're because, like, they look at the notes too. This was, like something that was grown internally. That was not my idea. One of the case managers came up with this. They'll put in very specific notes about something the client says. So let's say that, again, you're the client, and you mentioned that. What city are

Chris Dreyer 18:58 You in right now? I'm in Marion, Illinois. Actually, you might know Marion Illinois. Okay, are you?

Tyson Mutrux 19:05 I was funny. I was gonna use the bears as an example. Are you a Bears fan,

Chris Dreyer 19:09 Nah, nah, not a Bears fan, Cardinals. And used to be the Rams till they left.

Tyson Mutrux 19:13
Okay, let's say you're a Cardinals fan, so Okay, let's say you took the kids. Do you have kids? Yeah, one boy. Okay, you mentioned that you took your son to the Cardinals game last week, to the against the Mets. Okay, so Isabella might call you and say, Hey, Chris, you know, hey, I'm just calling to see how you're doing, checking in on you look, oh, how was the How was the Cardinals game last week? And then you talk about that. It's just, it's a simple call check in to see how things are going. And we have some specific questions that we that they ask with it. But the whole idea is just to see how you doing, right, how you doing kind of thing. So that's the main difference all of the other like case update communication, all that is done by the case manager. But whenever Isabella calls you and she says, you know, how is the Cardinals game? After that, she might say, Yeah, I mean, it looks like the looks like the insurance company is really being a. Hey, it looks like they really low balled you on that last offer. And then she'll kind of get into the other stuff. So she's mixing in some of the case stuff. She's mixing in your personal life, but the actual case updates about the legal side of the case are those. All that comes from the actual team that the client is assigned to. It's not done by the cares team itself.

Chris Dreyer 20:18 That's incredible. So talk to me too, about, you know, somebody wants to get involved with maximum lawyer, like community?

Tyson Mutrux 20:25 Sure. I mean, yeah, it's the ease, the easiest and cheapest way the freeway. We do have a big Facebook group. They just go to maximum lawyer on Facebook and do that. That's the easiest way. We also have the podcast. So you can list the podcast, see if it's kind of your flavor, and then maximum lawyer. Calm, that's, that's where you can go to if anyone's interested in the events, Maxwell events, calm, we have the conference coming up in October.

Chris Dreyer 20:49 And our audience wants to connect, just a final you know, how can I get in touch?

Tyson Mutrux 20:52 Yeah, I'd say just go to Maximum lawyer.com if you have questions about the firm, call our office. Don't email me. I'm not a not an email fan. 88550, 4026, you can call us if you have anything about a case. But we case, but when it comes to maximum or calm,

Chris Dreyer 21:05 Amazing Tyson, thanks for coming on the show.

Tyson Mutrux 21:07 Thanks, Chris. Really appreciate it.

Chris Dreyer 21:11 Tyson's strategy is the perfect loop. You fight for the maximum fee by mastering bad faith. You protect the client operationally by building a cares team that genuinely maps out the disruption in their lives, and then you turn the operational excellence into a marketing asset by generating those five star reviews. That is how you build an undeniable moat around your personal injury firm. If you found value on Tyson's playbook today, you should take this episode and share it with people in your own office, your intake staff, your case managers and your partners, get everyone thinking about how you can elevate the client journey if you're ready to dominate your market, increase your average fee and sign the kinds of high value cases that let you completely out spin the competition head on. Over to rankings.io. We are the elite performance marketing agency for personal injury law firms. I'm Chris Dreyer. We'll catch you next time you you.