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Rad Chat is a forward-thinking global knowledge hub where healthcare professionals can advance their knowledge and expertise in radiotherapy and oncology by utilising the award winning, first therapeutic radiographer led oncology podcast and social media channels.
We're empowering healthcare professionals worldwide by providing free, CPD-accredited radiotherapy and oncology education, by sharing real-world experience, expert insights, best practice and patient perspectives, we're helping healthcare professionals’ advance cancer care and improve patient outcomes.
Naman Julka-Anderson (00:00)
Hello everyone and welcome to Rad Chat, founded by me, Naman Julka- Anderson.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (00:04)
and me, Jo McNamara. So Rad Chat is a forward thinking global knowledge hub where healthcare professionals can advance their expertise in radiotherapy and oncology. Unlike traditional academic resources, we blend real world experience, expert insights, best practice, and of course, most importantly, patient perspectives.
Naman Julka-Anderson (00:23)
We make advanced knowledge engaging and accessible, supporting continuous learning and professional development without compromising patient care or personal time. By providing insights into both technical skills and career development, helping you progress confidently in your field and shape your professional future.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (00:39)
Just to let you know, our episodes may contain sensitive and difficult topics that you may find distressing or triggering.
Naman Julka-Anderson (00:46)
So this episode is part of the Education Workforce Development Series, featuring our guest Michelle Rahman a therapeutic radiographer, now patient and public involvement lead in clinical services transformation. She has also worked in various outreach and EDI roles. So excited for you to be here, Michelle. How are you?
Michelle Rahman (01:05)
Thank you, I'm fine. Thank you, Naman, and thank you, Jo, for inviting me. Looking forward to sharing my experience with you.
Naman Julka-Anderson (01:11)
Great to have you here. For anyone who doesn't know who you are, can you tell us a bit about your work journey, what you do now?
Michelle Rahman (01:17)
Yeah, sure.
I work in patient and public involvement. I lead the team in that and work within a community space as well. So looking at health population and EDI staff and inequalities. But prior to this, was a, I still am registered a radiographer. I'm also a mom, daughter, sister, all the other things that come along with it.
Naman Julka-Anderson (01:41)
Why did you pick therapeutic radiography in the first place?
Michelle Rahman (01:43)
Long story but initially my dad passed away from colorectal cancer.
Unfortunately, he was treated presented and treated really late. I was only 19. I'm a lot older, but my dad also had AIDS, so he wasn't treated equal rights. So even though he had the symptoms and he presented, he was pushed to the side because of it. And so he died really young. He died within four days of being diagnosed of colorectal cancer. And I've had a number of people in my family have Asian descent and African descent that have died of colorectal quite
close
to me and when I was young I didn't quite understand or know what was going on and I thought about this earlier today and I thought you know there's always something in me where I wanted to do this. I want to do something with cancer but I didn't know what or how and I trained as a mature student 18 years ago and decided to take this route got in through clearing by chance and then that was it continued my journey.
Jo McNamara (02:49)
Thank you for sharing your very personal experience. Is that maybe something that kind of has then led you on to do more PPI work and work within the EDI space?
Michelle Rahman (03:01)
Absolutely.
Absolutely, Jo. When I worked in radiotherapy, I loved what I did. Like, because you're seeing patients, you're building relationships. You know, somebody may come for five fractions, for five treatments or 37. So those seven and a half weeks, you build those relationships. And I always enjoyed that. And, you know, I did further training where I sat as a review radiographer. So you even building a stronger relationship in there. there was always, I always had the thing about how do we help the people before they get here?
Or the people that aren't coming here, who are these people? So I always had that and yeah that did definitely lead me on to wanting to work in a broader wider space.
Naman Julka-Anderson (03:42)
How did you find transitioning away from being clinical?
Michelle Rahman (03:44)
I was ready. So the reason why I transitioned was personal in terms of, you know, when you work as a radiographer, you work in clinical, you have to be there at a certain time, you have to finish at whatever time that last patient leaves because that's the commitment. And my mom was diagnosed with dementia.
I had to look at my life as a whole and some doors just opened where I transitioned into working in inequalities within cancer services and then moved into working in this role. So that's kind of how it happened. I didn't plan it per se but I always, you I wanted it.
Jo McNamara (04:26)
So tell us about your role at the moment. What is it that you're doing? What does a day in the life of Michelle look like?
Michelle Rahman (04:31)
Hectic.
So my role is kind of multifaceted or diverse. So I sit within a project team, so program management, where I lead a program, a project in patient and public involvement for clinical services. But the other side of that is I work with communities. So I work with community voices that feed into the program. So I work in quite a messy, colourful, blue sky community work
but then also alongside that in a very structured way when you're working in projects. So sometimes it feels like oil and water and getting it to mix can be quite tricky. So a day for me is a mixture.
So there's a lot of working within project space, working within clinical teams, working within leaders and having that clear visual for them, strategic thinking around how we need to achieve our objectives and our KPIs. But then there's the other side where we have to bring that voice along. We have to bring the voice that are not engaged. And so there's that relationship building on the other side of that with spaces that can be quite difficult sometimes where there's no trust.
I'm an employee of the NHS, but I'm also a person, so really identifying with those communities so that they feel they're heard. And it's not just being tick-boxed, they actually are heard and they're coming along this journey as we transform our services. So yeah, so quite a mixture.
Naman Julka-Anderson (06:06)
Tick box is always a worry for any researcher, academic, healthcare professional How do you not get a new project across as a tick box to the community you're trying to serve? Big question.
Michelle Rahman (06:19)
Big question, big question. And I think anybody working the space really works hard to combat that and really not make it a tick box exercise.
I can give my personal, what I personally do, as I can't, you I don't know what other people are doing, but for me, it's important that I get to know the people that I'm working with and understand. We chuck around words like nuances or the trauma that particular culture may have felt, but really understanding and coming alongside it so that they feel and they think and they believe that I am with them because I am, and then bringing that as a voice. And I think this goes back to
my growing up, where my dad's voice wasn't heard, my family's voice wasn't heard because I grew up in a very racialised community and I was very quiet and so now where I am I feel like I must be the voice. I'm the only in my team, I'm the only person of a different nationality and so I have to stand for myself. So if I'm standing for myself I have to stand for these people, these communities as we move forward.
So it's getting the community for me to understand and believe that I am there as their voice. And then coming along is having that brave, it's not always easy having that voice and being brave enough to stand up for what you know those voices are. And then, thinking about the project management side of that, it's always having that evaluation, that reflection, looking back. So what have we done? Also, those people said that. So what did we do? And showing that. And if we haven't done it quite right, going back a few steps, which we've had
to do.
Jo McNamara (07:55)
I think it's really difficult, isn't it? Because Naman and I have definitely experienced this where patients and service users who have maybe had poor experiences of healthcare inform us to then hopefully help redesign, implement changes into practice. And it can be really difficult not to be defensive. And it's important, isn't it, that when patients are telling us these things and sharing their
experiences that we don't just shut down and go, you know, that sounds really harsh and I'm sure it wasn't like that. What would you say to healthcare professionals when they're hearing these kind of experiences that are very critical, that are negative, that are showing health inequalities within our services?
Michelle Rahman (08:47)
Yeah, so.
I think I sometimes put my clinical hat on when I'm talking to clinical teams because I've been in those situations where you've got targets to meet, you've got patients to see that are in front of you, and there's always a challenge of where does patient and public involvement fit in here, or inequality work when I've got somebody dying in front of me, somebody, you know, those kind of things. So that's always a challenge, but I always try and switch hats with it a little bit, and I find that really useful. And...
Something that's really helped with that thought or with bringing the patient voice to or the clinicians to the is we invite our clinicians to come along into the space with the communities and
you come preconceived ideas or not knowing or a little bit nervous because, we come from an established NHS where there's protocols and now we're coming into this space we're not really sure of. And people so far, you know, the clinicians that have come along, they've learned so much and to hear, why don't I want to be involved in research? Do you know what happened to my community, my grandfather? Those personal things that they hear firsthand is really important. Whilst that's not always possible, you're not always going to get clinicians coming into
spaces.
I feel that whoever that middle person is, really important. Like somebody that's like me, there's many people with a similar kind of role, is really understanding that voice so that you can then really say it, but also with the understanding of the pressures of the clinicians. So I always feel start small. I have to do that when I'm working with clinicians is start small. Don't have these big ideas. Even though the community may want those big ideas, you've got to start small to build that change in mindset, to understand what our people are saying,
the people we serve are seeing.
Naman Julka-Anderson (10:31)
A
big part of it is unlearning, that is what we're taught at university growing up, in society, especially here in the UK, is, well, the doctor's always right, this is what you do, end of story. That's how it's always been. But I think, yeah, so if I speak for my community, the South Asian community, there is a lot of respect for the doctor, but at the same time there's also mistrust in the healthcare system. So why would I want to go and be part of a research study where
you're doing it somewhere that that my Nani, my grandma would say is a bit boring and bland. There needs to be food, I need someone to open the door for me, that's what she would want. And then you go to the next generation, it's very different. And then my generation who will already know more about it than I would,
having used AI to come in and tell me about this and that. It's such different nuances in each like in South Asia there's eight, nine different countries, so it's such a a minefield I guess for clinicians coming in who maybe want to do better, but then there's all that unlearning to do.
Michelle Rahman (11:28)
Yeah, the unlearning is a big thing. even like when I think about radiotherapy, I think, you know, we're working with those protocols and we are telling people to lie this way, to do that because that's for their safety and we know it works. So even for me, that unlearning is still happening because even though I'm working in that space and I ask somebody, so what do you feel about the priorities that we're sharing with you? How do they affect your community?
And I have to listen and take that on to be able to talk about it and really take it or not and drop my own and do that unlearning all over again. Cause I still have that in me. And you know, that will be a lot of people. So that's, it's an ongoing challenge. And that's that particular thing that you're talking about, about different cultures, like even in, when we talk about black Afro Caribbean, that's very different. And we have to educate our clinicians where I
work.
Yes we say black Africa, Caribbean, but black Africans are completely different. There's so many countries in Africa and the way that they look at research or any work that we're doing is very different compared to Caribbean. And in Caribbean, there's so many countries in the Caribbean. know, even the Chinese, the different languages that the Chinese, not all Mandarin, there's old fashioned Mandarin, there's newer Mandarin. So it's all those things that are so important to the communities.
And I do feel like there needs to be more people that are doing what I do to understand the and bring it across here.
Jo McNamara (12:52)
Do think that's maybe what we need in radiotherapy specifically as well?
Michelle Rahman (12:56)
Yes, yeah, I did some work in radio when I was practicing, fully practicing around, Naman, I spoke to you once about the, just tattooing. I know we do surface guided radiotherapy now, but not every way is doing it. So there was the tattooing to darker skinned people that, you know, was so difficult for us to see. And then their wellbeing was affected by that
and they don't understand why we're shining torches, just all those things that made them coming for treatment quite difficult, as well as like the skin effects on erythema on darker skinned patients. So
a colleague and myself did some work around the chewing of tobacco with the Somali male population and just going out even though I'm not Somali it was very difficult for me to go into that space but being brave enough to do it because you know that the impact around that will be tremendous. Just that sensitisation, education. So but the issue that we sometimes have is we have a lot is the time factor so it's our own time and then
our own time away from work that we're doing so that becomes challenging. But yeah do think it's needed in radiotherapy absolutely. I'm currently doing a cancer awareness Q &A and something comes up about radiotherapy and it's that like people are so fearful as I'm sure you must hear, people are so fearful of it so if we're not going to educate people in a different way then it'll be hard for them to want to come along.
Naman Julka-Anderson (14:24)
Has anyone ever explained to you why they're fearful of radiotherapy from these communities?
Michelle Rahman (14:28)
Yeah, last week Friday I had quite a few people saying they feel it's going to spread the cancer, it's going to kill them because of the radiation, the side effects will really harm them. Is it worth doing it?
So when some people had it in their community, that's a common one. And you're not understanding the full diagnosis of it. I don't want to go in because I don't want to be treated the same or I don't want those side effects or they passed away.
Jo McNamara (14:54)
I think that's sometimes a challenge, it, with radiotherapy when it can be used so successfully as a palliative treatment. And so, yes, it may help with pain and bleeding and other symptoms caused by the cancer, but ultimately, from maybe friends and family's perspective, they've had radiotherapy and then they still go on to die later on. And I always think it's a challenge as well that radiotherapy often comes later on in the pathway for lot of cancers. So
everyone thinks the late effects, the side effects, the acute things that maybe send people to A&E it's always got to be the radiotherapy because that's the treatment that they had last. And I do think, you know, those myths and misconceptions really do exist and challenge us as therapeutic radiographers. But I also think we probably don't get exposed to just the sheer number of people that don't ever attend for radiotherapy or refuse at that point of referral. I think we're shielded
by our amazing oncologists and our clinical nurse specialists. So yes, we get to find out how this person is coming for treatment, but we don't get to necessarily hear about the hundreds, thousands of people that have been offered radiotherapy that then decide actually they don't want treatment.
Michelle Rahman (16:09)
Very true, yeah. Because my previous role, looking at DNAs and stuff like that, people that did not attend radiotherapy, there is a lot, yeah. There's a lot.
Naman Julka-Anderson (16:19)
It's interesting as well, 'cause obviously radiotherapy across the world is very different in the sense there's not a lot of access. So, I mean, Africa, for example, they may have one oncologist and one linac
or they won't have anything at all and people have to travel by foot or public transport or whatever to neighbouring countries in the hope to get treatment. Or like Jo and I had the privilege to go to Uganda to visit and see the centre there, but patients travel so far away for treatment as it is, and if they've been able to make it all the way in their long journeys and then have the treatment, because they don't necessarily have a proper follow-up process like we do here, that actually when they are finished with treatment and they go back to their
communities and then if they end up dying in the community people think it's because of the radiotherapy and then that kind of myth just kind of feeds forward and if anyone immigrates to different countries in the West like that again doesn't really get that those myths don't get dispelled at all. And you know, again like with the chewing tobacco in India it's such a big problem and always has been, but no one's ever really considered the impact of it and then it's trying to educate people to again unlearn from what they've grown up doing. There's so many different layers to it.
Michelle Rahman (17:26)
Yeah, I'm involved in a project in Zambia and I'm originally from Zimbabwe
and this project Zambia is one of the highest prevalence in Africa for death by cervical cancer and so this project is going into the step before about HPV and how are we going to reach how are we reaching villages where these young girls don't know anything about HPV and don't know anything about treatment or screening and all that so this is what this project is and it's all around that about the education piece about the sensitisation so that
They understand why we're there, why the work is there, why they get screened, why they would have a vaccine. Because the other thing about, I'm sure Uganda may be similar, but Zambia is the recording of the data. So when somebody does pass away in a remote village of cervical cancer, those figures aren't always translated across in the country's data, national data.
So yeah, that's a different challenge.
Jo McNamara (18:32)
lots of challenges and barriers
but I think the key that you're showing here with the role that you've got and the work you're involved in is that there are still things that you can do. Do you ever get frustrated Michelle because I suppose I hope you don't mind me saying this Naman but it could be frustrating for people who have been affected by their own experiences of structural racism to then have to do the fight for patience and make those changes and it must be frustrating.
when you think I can't do all this on my own, why is there not more people doing the role that I'm doing to actually help support these changes and developments in practice?
Michelle Rahman (19:14)
It can be quite disheartening, absolutely quite disheartening and frustrating and triggering because you know something may happen in society, something may happen in the community I'm working with and that will trigger me and then I still got to do the work so it can almost feel like a lost cause that is absolutely the truth it is hard.
And I sometimes feel how I get through those moments is the people around me. So the people that I've connected with, either that I'm working with professionally or friends that kind of have a similar role. And that's what helps me to combat that feeling in me that there is hope. So even if it's one community or one person in community that feels that way or is feeling like they've been heard and there's been a change, I've had to accept that.
I can't change the whole world. I wish I really have this thing that I can do a lot more. I can do a lot more. And I have to keep reminding myself I can't because then I get overwhelmed and then upset. So the people around me somehow have just got good people around that keep me grounded in this year. But it is, it can be hard.
Naman Julka-Anderson (20:20)
I'm gonna be slightly controversial and add to that and say for people like us or anyone who wants to work in EDI space, we also have another layer of unlearning which is the colonial mindset that we can see a problem, we can go in and fix it and help and do everything. Some communities just don't want your help. They are happy to do what they want to do and how they do it, whether it's due to their culture, religion, spirituality, whatever it is. There is no amount of PPI work, co production, religious leaders that are gonna help you.
But there's also that mindset which I think probably the past couple of years I've been grappling with that, well, I know I can do something, but actually it isn't always up to me, like Jo said, and I agree with that, but then it's the vicious cycle of well if I don't do anything, no one else will, blah, blah, blah. And it just goes round and round. And it's always the same for anyone who works in this space. But yeah, there's also that level of unlearning that it isn't always gonna be our responsibility to fix it.
Michelle Rahman (21:15)
Yeah, and I've been quite, I've been met with that actually, where there is some communities that are, they just do their own thing and that is it. And they're quite closed as well. So I have come across that and I'm always trying to find another way in.
I haven't given up yet, but I can hear what you're saying. And do you know, yesterday,
Jo McNamara (21:32)
hahahaha
Michelle Rahman (21:36)
or is it today? No, it was yesterday, one of my colleagues said, Michelle, can I just give you, it wasn't a warning. She was just saying to me, because she also works at the space, and she said,
make sure you're always grounded. Don't feel like you can keep going out and trying to fix the world and stuff because it's going to wear you down. But I feel like even when I do get worn down, let's be human and we pick ourselves up and we learn from that, then, maybe I won't get into that community, but there's a lot of other people that I can get into, but I'm still going to try on that one. That's kind of me.
Jo McNamara (22:10)
There's no stopping Michelle.
Michelle we've talked
Michelle Rahman (22:18)
me.
Jo McNamara (22:19)
a little bit about race and getting into communities but in terms of other protected characteristics do you do projects that support other demographics of patients and cohorts of patients?
Michelle Rahman (22:30)
Yes, we do. I mean, I feel very lucky to be in the space that I am in because the community group that we use or we work with quite a lot is made up of not just different ethnicities, but also...
young people, so we get a young people's voice, people that have sight loss, hearing loss, LGBTQIA, and we also work in spaces where there is addictions, homelessness, so all the social graces around that, deprivation, so knowing those air deprivation, people from the Romani community,
so quite wide and quite challenging the spaces because everybody, know, some people don't really want to work with me because I'm different in terms of colour and race. So it's finding ways to work with those groups and sometimes working with other people to work with those groups if I'm not the right person.
And then that's quite difficult because from my own experience I was always told you're not good enough to do something but now I have to always kind of gain that unlearning of it's not that I can't do it but this is the best way for that group of people. So yeah I'm challenged nearly every day
in myself around how I react to certain things, how people respond to me. I've gone out and got a coach and mentor to help me professionally and personally to overcome the barriers around my own lived experience so that I can be beneficial and be effective for the people I work with.
Naman Julka-Anderson (24:07)
How does it work with KPIs for this sort of work? So do you focus on a specific community or is it specific cancer awareness project, that kind of thing? How does it work with the intersectionality of it all?
Michelle Rahman (24:18)
So there's always the figures, there's always the data. And sometimes the data is difficult. But I think always a good starting point is understanding what the data is. Because we do look at, like, for example, we'll look at things we can look at our things like DNA, so who's not attending, so we know, and where do they live? What ethnicity are they? So we get that baseline to understand who our communities are
but that's always, it can be tricky. But then the main way to achieve KPIs in this kind of role is doing evaluations, is looking at the impact. So really hearing the patient voice and, or the community voice or the patient and public voice, whoever you're working with and...
using that feedback effectively into the work. it's really, it's probably more qualitative than quantitative. The quantitative will, guess, eventually show hopefully later to see who's attending and things like that. But it's really what is the patient saying and then feeding that into the KPIs for what I need to be achieving.
Jo McNamara (25:22)
I'm intrigued Michelle, what's been your biggest success so far?
Michelle Rahman (25:25)
Do you know, I was really proud of myself to get this job, this particular role that I'm in, because I knew what it was. I like a job that's diverse, like what radiotherapy offers. You you're not just doing one thing, you're doing different things. And I knew I would also learn and grow professionally. Also where I sit, I knew that I'd had good influence on leaders that are making good decisions for the patients.
So I was proud that I got this job and there's a lot of other things, but this because I really felt, yes, this is a good stepping stone to the next thing. So yeah.
Naman Julka-Anderson (26:01)
Do you think your degree in therapeutic radiography is giving you bit of a a step up compared to other people?
Michelle Rahman (26:06)
I think having a clinical background has and because I'm passionate about cancer and inequalities in cancer, I think that's benefited because we're as somebody that may have worked in the cancer bubble in some respect, may not have that background in. I feel like we undersell ourselves and yet we know so much. Our learning, our degree is so intense in terms of cancer itself.
So I do feel that has benefited.
Jo McNamara (26:42)
For anyone listening who's thinking about moving into leadership transformation research PPI style roles, where should they start? Because I do know, there's lots of colleagues in in clinical that think that there is no path outside of radiotherapy. Or if there is the very minimal, highly competitive and you're competing against physios and OTs and you know, I think sometimes we're a bit
dubious of just how good we are as a profession at being able to work in these different roles. Where should people start? What could they do to kind of improve their confidence and competence at moving into a role like that?
Michelle Rahman (27:22)
I do feel like we, about the physios and the OTs that we maybe think, it's not for us. But I think, you know, it is a matter of just being brave and trying to apply. I've had a few colleagues that are now working as nurses, know, band-aid bees, nurses leading services and stuff, but they stepped out of that bubble, just have to apply. Even when something says physio, as long as it says AHP on there, you know, I'm applying.
What I would encourage, which would benefit the patients in radiotherapy anyway, is doing that extra work. I know it's extra time, but doing that extra work will benefit your career as well as the patients. You know, the work where we're either going out and educating young people in schools, or we're going out into communities to understand where is the highest deprivation
where are the incidences, what GP surgeries are having the most referrals, or particular type of cancer, who are those people? There's so much potential because that stands you in good stead for when these roles come about because you've got that. And that's how I got into these roles is because I had done the work before. I think it's very difficult to just transition straight away. Even though within radiotherapy, we have the options of doing research or audit, becoming advanced practitioners and stuff. It's that also because of the NHS,
10-year plan, that left shift, that community space that it's focused on. Because of that, that supports this kind of work. So if it is that kind of work people are going to, I would say start where you are in radiotherapy. And then, yeah, I mean, I got in by chance and luck, yeah. Thank you.
Naman Julka-Anderson (28:58)
Not by chance and luck, you earnt it. Take that back. Definitely earned it.
It's also interesting with therapeutic radiographers as part of this left shift, 'cause obviously the old school
Michelle Rahman (29:10)
Hmm.
Naman Julka-Anderson (29:10)
mentality might be we should stay in our bunker
Michelle Rahman (29:12)
Mmm.
Naman Julka-Anderson (29:13)
and not transition out into the vitamin D and the light, but actually the transferable skills as AHPs, as therapeutic radiographers, oncology, I think also the problem solving skills that we have that we develop through
Michelle Rahman (29:25)
Mmm.
Naman Julka-Anderson (29:25)
our working. Like, you know, something isn't
Michelle Rahman (29:27)
Yeah.
Naman Julka-Anderson (29:28)
Well, we can't figure something out. We we work it out systematically and actually also having the transferable people skills, you know, yes, there are radiographers who would rather do more of the technical stuff, but you still have to talk to someone who's living with them beyond cancer. And when it comes into community working, we're very good at that because we understand cancer, the NHS, the system and then how
Michelle Rahman (29:47)
Yeah.
Naman Julka-Anderson (29:47)
it transfers. So yeah, it's interesting. And it's really good to see you in this role as well.
Michelle Rahman (29:53)
One thing that just comes to mind as you're talking, I mean, is, even like the reporting data, that's really, I found that really beneficial because that helped me initially transfer is understanding the performance data that's being reported on either on Infoflex or SCR. But knowing that, you know, that I think that's really useful because no matter what leadership or transformation role, anything out of that, you have to look at data.
You have to look at performance. So it's important to know those basics as well.
Jo McNamara (30:28)
Michelle if you could sit down with your newly qualified self what would you say? What advice would you give her?
Michelle Rahman (30:34)
I wish I had sought this out earlier. So therapeutic radiography is, I really enjoyed it and I learned a tremendous amount, but I wish I had started this work earlier. I feel like age is against me.
So if it was the younger Michelle sitting in front of me, I think I would say like, start there, start looking at audits. one thing I didn't quite understand is that you can initiate looking at patient, you know, patient data, patient stuff while you're working and anything that you feel is not right, you can start that. I didn't know that at the time. So I would say, yeah, be brave and if something's not right, put your foot in.
Jo McNamara (31:16)
Your manager would go, yes have all this data please help me do something with it.
Michelle Rahman (31:21)
Which, respectively, Yeah.
Jo McNamara (31:27)
Love it. And Michelle, in terms of what you hope that your role is going to be able to achieve in the future, is there anything specific that you may be looking forward to and that you're excited about being able to kind of implement change through PPI and co-creation work?
Michelle Rahman (31:43)
Yes, the aim of my role...
I guess the end point of this role is that to embed PPI in business as usual within clinical services, that is the aim of my role and not have it as a nice add-on if we have time. And I feel very privileged that I have a lot of support. I know some people may not have the same support, leadership support around that, but that really makes me feel good.
It's not permanent fixed term, but there's extensions and those kind of things. But at the end of it all, that is the aim, is to get this kind of work embedded in clinical services.
Naman Julka-Anderson (32:22)
It's exciting. It's what the
Michelle Rahman (32:24)
You
Naman Julka-Anderson (32:26)
NHS has been screaming for for a long time. It's
Michelle Rahman (32:27)
Yeah.
Naman Julka-Anderson (32:28)
obviously nice that you're kind of there at that point and looking towards that.
We've started to do something new on Rad Chat, so we have quick fire questions for you. I've got six questions for you, so I just want a short answer from you, Michelle.
If you weren't a radiographer, what would you be?
Michelle Rahman (32:49)
I'd be creating policies to take away inequalities for cancer.
Naman Julka-Anderson (32:54)
Nice. Start strong.
Favourite thing about being a radiographer?
Michelle Rahman (33:00)
Having relationships with patients.
Naman Julka-Anderson (33:03)
Yeah, I think we all agree on that one. favorite radiotherapy innovation?
Michelle Rahman (33:10)
Surface guided radiotherapy.
Naman Julka-Anderson (33:14)
If you had a million pounds of transform radiotherapy, where would you spend it?
Michelle Rahman (33:21)
in this country.
Naman Julka-Anderson (33:23)
Your quick fire question wherever you want.
Michelle Rahman (33:25)
I would, because I'm from Africa, would use that money to develop radiotherapy centres.
Naman Julka-Anderson (33:31)
Nice. biggest misconception about PPI.
Michelle Rahman (33:40)
that is always a tick box exercise.
Naman Julka-Anderson (33:44)
Okay. Last one. What makes a great patient experience?
Michelle Rahman (33:56)
There's a number of things, I think, having the things that the NHS can offer, like access, availability and patient support, but then also understanding our population so that we can
Naman Julka-Anderson (34:08)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Rahman (34:08)
provide the correct and personalised care for them.
Naman Julka-Anderson (34:14)
Nice. Interview's over. The last thing, Michelle, is we always end with top tips for our listeners. So you've given lots of nuggets throughout, but what would you like people to take away from your episode today?
Michelle Rahman (34:28)
I'd like people to...
really embrace that we all come from different places, doesn't matter what color or creed, but this kind of work is really important and we can do it. I feel like you don't have to have a role like mine to do it. You can work in whatever you're doing to do it and it can be small things because they have big impacts. When I started off looking at what we can do for people that are chewing tobacco, it started small but it had big impact on people. So it doesn't have to be big and you don't
have to have a certain role. It's just on your day to day challenge. Challenge your managers. Challenge the work where you are to get these changes made.
Naman Julka-Anderson (35:12)
Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on. It's been amazing to have you. Thanks everyone for listening
Michelle Rahman (35:15)
Thank you both. Thank you.
Naman Julka-Anderson (35:18)
to Rad Chat with me, Naman Julka-Anderson and Jo McNamara.
Naman Julka-Anderson (35:21)
You can use this episode as part of our free, continual professional development, accredited content, which offers flexible learning that fits your busy schedule. Just check out the show notes for the reflective questions, links to literature and resources, and a link to complete the form to receive your accredited certificate.
Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (35:37)
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Naman Julka-Anderson (35:47)
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Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (36:03)
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Naman Julka-Anderson (36:19)
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