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Join Church Production Magazine as we delve into the world of church technology and media ministry, featuring in-depth conversations with church tech experts about the latest in lighting, audio, video, staging, streaming, and content creation, and how they wrap it all together to create meaningful worship experiences. Discover how they leverage cutting-edge technology to enhance regular services, produce impactful sermon bumpers, and create both short and feature-length films. Whether you're a seasoned tech professional or new to the field, gain valuable insights and tips to elevate your church’s production quality, help your church expand its reach, and communicate the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Joseph Cottle (00:06):
You are listening to the church production podcast from church production.com. I'm your host, Joseph Coddle, and today we're talking about rethinking Sunday Morning Services with Ben Abuda from Grace Church right here in Kansas City. Ben is a 20 year veteran of church production and worship leadership, so he has a lot of wisdom to share with us about managing pre and post-production, when to make changes in how to sustain a healthy team over the long run. Let's dive in with Ben. Ben, welcome to the podcast.
Ben AbuSaada(00:38):
Thank you, sir. Glad to
Joseph Cottle (00:39):
Have you
Ben AbuSaada(00:39):
Here. I'm glad to be here. Thank you.
Joseph Cottle (00:42):
And yeah, let's talk a little bit about how you and I met. I think you guys hit us up
Ben AbuSaada(00:49):
For Yeah, we did. Yeah. We reached out to you to get a tour of your production facilities and trying to gain some wisdom from your guys' years of being in practice. Then we talked about processes and those kinds of things and learned a lot from you guys, and we were very grateful for the opportunity to follow you guys around for an afternoon or for, I think it was like an hour or so, or hour and a half. Yeah,
Joseph Cottle (01:15):
You guys were here for a little
Ben AbuSaada(01:16):
Bit. Yeah, it was great.
Joseph Cottle (01:19):
And I'm grateful you came because you guys, it's no small operation. Tell us a little bit about your church.
Ben AbuSaada(01:27):
Sure. Grace Church sits outside of Kansas City. We're in, we've got three campuses in person. We have our original one, which is Grace Church, Overland Park South, which is, it's, I don't know, there's about 2000 people there on a weekend. And then we have one that's, we have two other ones that are about five miles away in different directions from that location. And yeah, we've been planting, we call those our campuses, like satellite type campuses. We've got one that's five miles north and then one that's a little further south, five miles away.
Joseph Cottle (02:07):
Now your Sunday mornings I think look a little bit different than most, and that's what I wanted to talk to you about. Sure. So just walk us through a Sunday morning production for your team.
Ben AbuSaada(02:22):
So what we do, we have what I think many, many churches who do a similar type of model. We have what many churches would call central support. We call it our campus support. And I'm, what my role is, I'm the director of worship arts, which is I oversee the communications team. I oversee production, worship, and film all the creative people. I call the kitty cats. The main thing we do on a weekly basis is we create the programming. So we create the content like media, and we work with the worship directors at each campus to make sure that they have everything that they need to execute their worship services on the weekend. So our programming is fed to them on Thursdays by three o'clock, 3:00 PM and that way they can have everything. The worship directors can have everything by Thursday night so they can run it for rehearsal.
(03:15):
So any videos or any media content that we're producing, we just want them to make sure that it's working properly. And if it's not or if something's wrong, then we have an opportunity to fix it Friday before their weekend services. So we feed that to them. And then on the weekends, my role and our production director, his role is to provide support to those individual campuses when something's wrong or something's broken. So that's what our weekend looks like. I float from campus to campus in my role now, and our production director does the same. Sometimes I'll do the worship leadership still. For this past weekend, I helped lead worship with our north campus.
Joseph Cottle (03:54):
So Sunday morning, as I remember from our discussion, you don't actually have a live pastor preaching, correct?
Ben AbuSaada(04:04):
Well, we do. So the way that we do our teaching is we have at our South Overland Park, our original location, there's usually live teaching there for the most part. And the other campuses, the other two, they'll do like 50% live out of a year. 50% of the time it'll be our senior pastor teaching by video usually. Or it might be someone else, but it's mostly our senior pastor.
Joseph Cottle (04:32):
Got it. Okay. And then who's teaching
Ben AbuSaada(04:36):
When it's live at those locations? So if it's live all weekend, at every location there will be, the campus pastor would most likely teach at those other campuses, or they may have somebody on staff. We also have a residency program like church planning residents. And so it's a great opportunity for those young people to actually teach and cut their teeth on a stage and that kind of thing. So we try to create opportunities to help young people grow in their ability to teach that kind of thing. That's
Joseph Cottle (05:11):
Really impressive. And there's not a lot of churches doing that, I don't think. Yeah. What part of your services are you prerecording?
Ben AbuSaada(05:20):
So we also do the online stuff. So our online ministry. So in our responsibility with our campus support, our communications team and our film team are responsible for producing our weekend services online. So we used to do the model of cameras set up in our original location, and they would just broadcast what's being, what the worship service is on that weekend. And we changed that after Covid. Covid gave us an opportunity to really look and fine tune what our online experience is like. And I think that's the story for so many churches. Some churches would reach out and they say, Hey, we've never done a live stream. Can you help us out or help us figure out how to do that? So in that process, we did an online service, but we weren't paying close attention to it as far as quality and what the experience was like for someone online. So when Covid hit, that was all we were doing for a while. It was like, Hey, we got to produce basically a TV show every week.
(06:32):
And so what we found was that creating that for us was a way better process than trying to get our volunteers that were involved in production on the weekend at our other campus, trying to get them to produce a pretty positive experience online while paying attention to what's going on in the room. So what we decided to do is let's just keep this model going for the time being. And we've basically, our online service is we have our message capture that we do on Tuesdays. Message capture is what we would use online, and then we also feed it to those campuses. If our senior pastor is teaching by video at the other two locations, our North Overland Park and our Olathe campus, we'll use the same teaching video that we just produced for our online service. So we'll play that at those campuses. So that would be the video teaching or the main video that would be happening at those campuses on a weekend service. So our worship stuff online, we'll capture at an opposite time. We'll have last Sunday of August, we do an all-campus worship night. So we'll capture that with all the people in the room, and then we'll probably have three worship sets out of that time that we would attach to our services online. And then we'll kind of build a catalog, is what we try to do of worship sets, and then we'll attach those to our service online.
Joseph Cottle (08:04):
And you have live worship though at your campuses as well? Yes.
Ben AbuSaada(08:07):
Okay.
Joseph Cottle (08:09):
So if there's not somebody teaching live at a campus, what's the response to that prerecorded video? I'm really curious about that because, and we did campus delivery for a little bit, but on a delayed model. So we'd capture the nine o'clock here and then send it to the campuses for their 10 o'clock service. So they're getting our lead, pastor Clint in our room. So it has a live feel. What kind of feel are you creating for campuses when they're seeing a video or for your online audience?
Ben AbuSaada(08:48):
Yeah, it's a great question. We've had mixed responses for the people who are alive in the rooms in the auditoriums. They tend to not, I think the majority of them are fine with what we're showing them. I mean, as far as what we're producing, and we've tinkered with that. We've done it. We've recorded in a studio before where the background is, it looks like a studio. And then we actually moved it last fall to our newest campus, their stage, and they have a nice LED wall in the background. So they're teaching from a stage, which I think has created probably a little bit more positive experience, I think, for people both online and the people in the auditoriums. But the response has been fine. But there are people, I mean, I think anytime you do any kind of video stuff, you're going to get people that are like, well, I just really live teaching, which totally relate to and understand. So we actually modified our amount of live teaching in a year based on some of those responses. It used to be like 80, 80 20, like 80% it would be of the year. It would be video teaching and 20% they would have live. So we moved it to 50 50. When did
Joseph Cottle (10:10):
You make that
Ben AbuSaada(10:11):
Change? It was probably two years ago when we were coming out of Covid, probably a year after that. 2022 maybe.
Joseph Cottle (10:20):
And I think that's a commendable response to feedback from your congregation instead of just bulldozing through as well. No, this is how we do things. Talk to me a little bit about that discussion.
Ben AbuSaada(10:35):
Yeah, I would say that that type of mentality, I credit to our senior pastor mean he's never been Tim Howie. He's always been willing to listen to people. And Troy always encourages us to get feedback, listen to feedback. I mean, he even does it with his sermon teaching. He does, he'll do a sermon review with people from within the church body a week before. Everybody who's going to be on a stage has to have their sermon, has to be reviewed, listened to by people. So that's just an attitude of like, Hey, we don't have everything figured out. It's good to listen to the people. And so that's the first thing. Our foundation has always been that, which is, I think, a good thing. Sometimes it can be frustrating for us who are creating, it's like, just tell them no, I don't care if they think it's too loud.
(11:35):
You know what I mean? But you have to listen to folks and try to find the things that are truth versus when people come to you and say that things are doctrinal. Sometimes people will say, well, that's not biblical to do it this way. That's not true. I don't think you're going to find anything that would support that point of view, but tell us why are you feeling this, right? If you can get past that initial defensive or attack and try to figure out what's the thing behind it, and then you start to look at the details and you're like, okay to, can we adjust the amount of time that's live versus video? Can we adjust based on what we're hearing from people? They don't like the background of somebody teaching from a studio. It just doesn't feel like church to them. Okay, let's try this.
(12:26):
Let's move it to a stage at one of our auditoriums that's been positive. The online worship, they don't like when it feels like you're singing from a studio or it feels like that. Okay, well then let's take advantage of those opportunities when we're doing corporate larger worship events and let's, if we want to keep the model of pre-recording our worship, let's try to find those opportunities where people can engage with their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that are out in the audience, right in the auditorium. So then they feel like, oh, wow, okay. I'm a part of worship. And so they're getting the experience of what it would be like at one of our live church services versus, Hey, this is a band standing on a stage singing to cameras. So we try to figure out those ways based on feedback we get. So the process of how we came to that decision was senior pastor brought the tension points, or we brought tension points to the table of our leadership. We discussed it and talked about it. And then campus pastors usually in that scenario with the live teaching stuff, that was our campus pastors. So when we meet with them, they give feedback of how things are going. And so in that process, then we came up with some ideas and prayed about it and decided on a conclusion together that, you know what? We're going to move to 50 50 and we'll try that for a while. How did
Joseph Cottle (13:52):
The worship team handle pre-recording when you were doing it with a studio
Ben AbuSaada(13:56):
Vibe? Yeah, they handled it really well, especially through Covid, because I mean, everybody felt like, Hey, we're rallying together to bring worship to our people at home. Now, there are some folks on the worship teams at some of the campus, they're like, I don't really want to participate in the online worship stuff. They just don't feel, they don't feel it, and that's totally fine, but for the most part, everybody enjoys it, and they all love to come together and worship. It actually helps with their craft and their skill as well, playing together. How long
Joseph Cottle (14:35):
After lockdown did you guys do the studio style worship?
Ben AbuSaada(14:39):
So what we were doing, we were doing it on a stage. We would recapture things at the original campuses stage, our South Oone Park stage. So we would come in and it was probably about a year, probably through probably the summer to early fall of 21. We would do it a lot within the context of nobody else in the room, but it was just us on the stage. And then we had our first all campus worship. It was our 25th anniversary in 2021, and we decided, let's try to be intentional about our worship set and if we can make sure that some of the songs flow together so we could at least have three worship sets that we could capture out of that and utilize that for our online services. So we did that, and that was the first time probably, and we were like, okay, this feels better.
(15:38):
So then we would capture, for our Easter service, we would do the same thing, but what we would do is we would open up the room and send out a call to people, Hey, if you want to come worship with us, let's come worship for about an hour together. We had people show up and they just came and we let them know that we're going to capture our service for Easter, but we're going to have some time of worship and it's going to be a good time. But we set the table, let them know what we're doing. We actually captured our set for Easter, and then we would tack on two other worship sets, so they would do an additional six songs that we were familiar with that they didn't have to rehearse really hard. You know what I mean? So we would capture that with people in the room, and then we would use those for our online stuff too. So
Joseph Cottle (16:24):
The pre-recording, especially worship, I know it's becoming a little more popular or remote campus satellite styles. I know Church Home does that in Bridgetown. John Mark Comer's Church was doing that. They started doing it during lockdown, and of course it was very high production quality for sure. It was a little bit more than I think some of us could do. And so it's really intriguing that you guys continued with that and you found a model that worked for your campuses, and now you're just tweaking it a little bit to continue to make it work.
Ben AbuSaada(17:07):
There's definitely a lot more control in your role as production and having to pay attention to online streaming and audio quality and those kinds of things. It eliminated that whole factor for us on Weekend Services. So there's definitely a lot more control in that.
Joseph Cottle (17:23):
What are you guys using for video distribution?
Ben AbuSaada(17:29):
How do campuses download? Yeah, we use Microsoft, the teams and all that. They just upload it to a folder. And then I take that back. We did modify Kaylee as our media manager. I don't know all the details, but she's utilizing a pro presenter at campus. And so the way they've got it set up, I'm not sure of the details of how they do it, but they upload the stuff and they tag it a certain title and it will pop up in all of our campuses. ProPresenter stuff, shooting some
Joseph Cottle (18:00):
Of those ProPresenter automations.
Ben AbuSaada(18:01):
Yes. Got it. And that's just recent within the past six months. Yeah.
Joseph Cottle (18:06):
That's smart. Always
Ben AbuSaada(18:07):
Fine tuning that
Joseph Cottle (18:08):
Stuff. And what are you guys using to stream what hardware
Ben AbuSaada(18:14):
Online? What are we doing online? For our weekly services, we use the, I can't remember the name of the broadcasting company. I think Live Church owns it or something.
Joseph Cottle (18:29):
Okay. So there's church online and that's the platform. But then are you
Ben AbuSaada(18:34):
Resi?
Joseph Cottle (18:35):
Okay, you're using Resi. Resi, got it. Okay. Got it. Yeah. So
Ben AbuSaada(18:38):
I second to
Joseph Cottle (18:39):
You have a resi stream. Yes. Going into church online. Yes.
Ben AbuSaada(18:44):
It feeds to there and then it feeds to YouTube.
Joseph Cottle (18:46):
Yeah. Now this is, I'm not sure I understand. My
Ben AbuSaada(18:50):
Watch does not understand. Well, she's speaking on my behalf because we get into the nitty gritty. I'm not sure. I understand.
Joseph Cottle (18:58):
That's funny, dude. So now what you're sending online though is prerecorded. So are you guys using Resi on demand? Is that
Ben AbuSaada(19:11):
To make it live? Yeah. Yes. So what we do is we have an individual that produces the online service. So we capture a hosting segment with a host, like a campus pastor online, and then we capture our message, and then we have the worship, and then we have a countdown clock or whatever, and they assemble all of that. They record it, then they assemble it, and then they put it into resi, and then it feeds and distributes it on YouTube. It'll show that we're live instead of it as a premiere. Right, right. So we used to do the premiere thing and we're like, well, how do you make it look like it's live so that we at least have, Hey, Grace Church right now is we're live. It's happening. Yeah, it
Joseph Cottle (19:54):
Feels live.
Ben AbuSaada(19:55):
Yeah. I mean, even though it's not, and people know it's not, yeah, we're not trying to deceive people. It just looks different when you have a live like it's going live. Right.
Joseph Cottle (20:05):
How have you stewarded those changes in yourself over the years to not get stuck and to be willing? I mean, you guys are still very flexible. I mean, you came out with this really fresh vision out of lockdown. It's like, Hey, actually this broadcast thing is really working. Pre-recording is working. It's working for our team, so let's just keep going. And then it's like, well, it's kind of working, but it's not working, so let's tweak it a little bit. That's impressive. People tend to get stuck in their ways. So how do you cultivate that kind of flexibility in yourself?
Ben AbuSaada(20:35):
Well, the first thing I think for myself, I think just learning that and understanding, if you can just know that you're not perfect. I mean, if you operate from a standpoint of not being perfect and understanding that you can still learn from others. I mean, that's why we called you. It is like we want to figure out what do we need to change? What can we learn from others that have been successful in certain ways? So I think just constantly having a mentality in the heart of not having everything figured out really will help in those situations where something doesn't seem to be working. So you don't just pigeonhole yourself in to an idea. The whole thing we're doing with the prerecorded stuff, I think it may change. We may at some point go back to streaming from a room because it's the best solution for what we need.
(21:34):
And I'm sure that conversation will come because somebody who's one of our pastors or campus people or executive team may watch an online service when they're on vacation or something, and then they'll go, I don't know if I like that. Can we talk about this? So it may come up again, you know what I mean, as a conversation. And we may have to address it, and we may put it off, and I don't know. You never know. But if you have the attitude that don't hold on to things too tightly when change comes, it definitely will help you through that. It doesn't mean that it won't be frustrating. It is frustrating when you invest a lot of time in something and then someone comes along and says, I don't know if that's the right thing. You, you're like, I just spent a whole year trying to make this thing happen. But you have to have those conversations. So as long as you're in those conversations, communicating the investment that was made, it helps at least people understand that, okay, if we're going to go that direction, let's establish a timeline that makes sense based on all of the resources that have been spent, time, people, money, all that stuff. So we need to maybe make a reasonable timeline to get to a new direction. You know what I mean? So
Joseph Cottle (22:51):
Let's get into the nitty gritty, just a little bit of your production set up. You guys, are you capturing to each individual camera, or are you live mixing everything on a switcher when you're capturing worship or the sermon? What's that look like? Yeah,
Ben AbuSaada(23:12):
So when we're capturing the worship music, we, they'll have three or four, I think they'll have three cameras set up in the room, and then sometimes they'll do an additional one that might be on a track or something. So they can have a smooth movement, especially if the room is filled with people, they'll put it across the middle or the back, and then we'll have one or two roamers on the stage and they will capture on an SD card to each camera. Got it. And then at the same time, they're simultaneously, our audio engineer, our production director, Cade, will capture the music on another source. And what we do to align, what's the audio on the cameras, and then the audio source, we clap before we start, do the clap. And then so that way when the editor is sitting down, they can align the audio to the video.
Joseph Cottle (24:09):
And so then you're sending that to post. Do you know what you guys are editing on?
Ben AbuSaada(24:14):
I can't remember if you named a few. I could probably tell you which one.
Joseph Cottle (24:17):
Well, I know a lot of people have moved over to Resolve DaVinci Resolve. I know that's what our creative director uses for the video. For video mostly. I don't think a lot of people use Premier Pro.
Ben AbuSaada(24:28):
I think the, that's big one. I think that's the one we were in.
Joseph Cottle (24:31):
And that has great multicam editing stuff.
Ben AbuSaada(24:33):
I feel like there was a conversation with one of our editors about moving to Resolve
Joseph Cottle (24:39):
Resolves. Great. It's free and it's really powerful for what it is for freeing free. It shouldn't be free. It should absolutely not be free, but it's kind of black magic's way to get their foot in your door. Your door. Wow.
Ben AbuSaada(24:52):
Look what we offer.
Joseph Cottle (24:53):
And there's some paid tiers with extra colorization stuff, but they want you to buy their hardware. That's kind of part of their business model. And we love blackmagic@churchproduction.com. That's no diss Blackmagic. We love you. That's funny. We also love all of our other
Ben AbuSaada(25:11):
Sponsors. Yes. You should name them all now. Yeah.
Joseph Cottle (25:16):
So you are capturing the SD cards. Do you know what you're capturing audio on specifically?
Ben AbuSaada(25:26):
No, I don't know. This is where I'm not, you want to talk to the
Joseph Cottle (25:31):
60,000 you?
Ben AbuSaada(25:32):
Yeah, but I know here's a word that I hear often. Dante don't know that that is what they capture on, but they say that word a lot. Yeah,
Joseph Cottle (25:43):
It's
Ben AbuSaada(25:43):
Not,
Joseph Cottle (25:44):
But it gets it there. That's what gets sound to things. Yes. But that's good to know that you guys are on Dante. Is that at all campuses?
Ben AbuSaada(25:55):
I think it's at two of them, and I think we're trying to get it at one of them. Got it.
Joseph Cottle (26:01):
Yeah, it can be a little bit of a switchover. We just finally switched over
Ben AbuSaada(26:05):
This year. Did you? Okay. Yeah, I remember hearing that conversation. That was the part I checked out when you guys were talking details like that when we came.
Joseph Cottle (26:13):
We still had the Digi Co when you were here,
Ben AbuSaada(26:15):
Right? Okay. Yeah. One of 'em did. Well,
Joseph Cottle (26:17):
Before you go home, I'll take you over, we switched over to Ellen Heath and Dante and all that, so we can tour that. That
Ben AbuSaada(26:23):
Was February it, was it February or April? I don't know. This might have been February,
Joseph Cottle (26:26):
I think. Yeah, we switched over right before the summer. Okay, nice. Sorry, pause. Thinking about other parts of the production that our people might want to know about, we'll edit this out.
Ben AbuSaada(26:38):
Sorry, I don't know your specific technical
Joseph Cottle (26:41):
Answers.
Ben AbuSaada(26:41):
No,
Joseph Cottle (26:41):
That's okay. It's the structure that people want to know. You could do it one or two ways. Like you guys doing Multicam captured SD cards, and then you're putting it together in post. The quick way, kind of the cheater way if you wanted to do it is you're feeding all those into a switcher and you have somebody basically mixing it live. Live, and then it's done. Right. And that's what we did during lockdown is we were still putting everything through the switcher and somebody was mixing that live. And so then we just had one video file that was done, and then we would broadcast that out. And that was even the days before resi on demand. Resi was adapting at the time.
Ben AbuSaada(27:20):
Yeah, they were to,
Joseph Cottle (27:21):
I remember we had to have a guy in the room on Saturday night to push play on Rezi, essentially to stream it. And there was no pre-scheduling or anything like that, so he was just in there playing his Xbox while the service was going. You're right.
Ben AbuSaada(27:36):
I forgot. We did have to do that. I totally forgot. And I remember, I think our people were having conversations with Resi, and they even told us, they said, well, we're working on it. We're having a lot of people ask this question.
Joseph Cottle (27:49):
Yeah, we got to get there. We got to get there.
Ben AbuSaada(27:51):
Even they were having to adapt. Yeah.
Joseph Cottle (27:54):
And at your campuses, you sound that you have an LED wall at one of them.
Ben AbuSaada(28:00):
We have LED at two, and right now
Joseph Cottle (28:02):
We doing And those are your satellite campuses?
Ben AbuSaada(28:04):
Yeah. No, our original one South Op, it was the one that had the LED wall first. Then the first launch that we did is our North op in 20, no, I'm sorry, that was our second one. Our first one in Olathe. They launched in a school, so they did not, and then we added the LED wall when they built their building in September of 23. It was final. Got it. So they have an LED wall. So we have two, and then we have our North op just has, they have a laser projector. Got it. A laser projector.
Joseph Cottle (28:37):
Yeah. And just one. You're not doing side screens or anything? Oh,
Ben AbuSaada(28:41):
Right. Just the one. Got it. Okay. Now at our South Oland Park, we have two side screens that are kind of imag. They use that for the Im mag worship, and then we will have the LED Wall Wellness Center. Got it.
Joseph Cottle (28:55):
Last question about your pre-recording stuff. Your pastor, is he rehearsing ahead of time for that? How does that production system work to, for the teaching? To the teaching to get that ready to send.
Ben AbuSaada(29:15):
So they don't come into practice or anything. They're scheduled. Tuesdays at one 30 shows up on the calendar and they come in. They might come in at one 15 or one o'clock to just walk the stage and look at the notes. But at one 30, we're supposed to be ready to hit record and yeah, that's it.
Joseph Cottle (29:36):
Do you have anybody in the room that they're talking to just to give 'em a bit of a feel?
Ben AbuSaada(29:40):
We have tried that and we don't get many people in the middle of the day to come do that. It's been difficult. We've even invited staff to come, but everybody's busy got their chops to do so. So we don't really, the only people in the room are the camera people. So what we've tried, you try to tell the camera people, Hey, try not to just look at your phone while they're teaching, or at least give some semblance of engagement for 'em sometimes, but,
Joseph Cottle (30:16):
And that's recorded also to SD cards on each camera, and then you go in and edit the multi and post. Are they looking down the barrel or are they pretending like there's people?
Ben AbuSaada(30:26):
No, they're not typically looking down the barrel. The only time, it depends on who the teacher is. Some of them like to roam, and we have tape on the floor that gives them a roaming box, and then some of them stand still or like to sit. So it just depends on the angle and it depends on the speaker. So one angle may be more of a back and forth while the other two cameras are stationary. Got it. Got it. For the wide angle. The wide shot.
Joseph Cottle (30:55):
Yeah. Well, Ben, this has been a great discussion and just thank you for taking the time with us today. And yeah, I hope we have some more discussions in the future.
Ben AbuSaada(31:04):
Let's do it. We love it. Thank you for inviting me.
Joseph Cottle (31:06):
Thanks. Thanks again for listening to the church production podcast from church production.com. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast, our email list and our YouTube channel, as well as follow us on Instagram for everything church production.