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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 3:We had a special group last week where we watched the movie together and then discussed it through a DID framework. Here's our discussion. What did you think of that? That was wild. So so let me give this little bit of background in that Multi Me's, they they mentioned that the Chris's had referenced it as a DID movie.
Speaker 3:Several other people contacted me about it being a DID movie. The husband said, oh this is a DID movie and then it gets super, super epic when you take the, the union perspective like the dreams where you play all the parts like the house is you, all the characters are you, all of that but even if you're just thinking about it as DID or internal worlds and those kinds of layers, there's so much in there. So it was fun, it's cute, it has a lot of layers, it has a lot of triggers too, I mean just family dynamics anyway and also the fact that just to acknowledge upfront, get it out of the way, that most of us do not have all of our family problems solved in an hour and a half and everything is perfect after that, right? Just to address that external layer that that's not a thing for all of us, always for most of us, and also before we talk about the DID layers, just want to address these triggers, the other piece is that the only reason, even though it's just a cartoon movie, the only reason that they were able to do that, even if we're talking about external relationships, was because everyone was doing the work.
Speaker 3:They did not heal the house or heal the family because just the girl figured things out and because she tried hard enough. That's not the point of the movie. So I just want to say that up front and acknowledge that. I just want to acknowledge that because I know all of us have big feelings about that and there's lots of layers in that too, so I just kind of want to knock that out and just put that on the table and then we can move on from there and talking about how we see it as a movie about systems and about what it's like internally, everyone having a very specific role and the arguments that we have with each other and the roles that we play and the things that we think we're so good at and how things fall apart when we are not working together. I don't know.
Speaker 3:What do you think? I'll let you talk.
Speaker 1:I won't get
Speaker 3:in the way.
Speaker 4:I liked it. I think
Speaker 5:it addresses the pigeonholing we do really well, whether you're a mono minded person or a multiminded person, how everybody around us expect as you said, Emma, everybody around us expects us to play a part and how those parts are important to to address the whole.
Speaker 1:So from that perspective, I really thought it was awesome. Looking at it from my DID, like, if you just look at the whole thing, it's interesting that they didn't really know each other. Like, they were doing their part, and they were doing their part on their own. Like, it was working, but they were doing their part all on their own, and it wasn't until things started to fall apart that they kind of had to start to get to know each other and how even though they were doing their part, they weren't actually being themselves. I thought that was really interesting, that each person, even even the house, everyone was doing everything to be perfect.
Speaker 1:And I guess what I saw was if I look at the movie as a system, that as everyone tried to be perfect, it started that's when it all started falling apart. And then they had to learn themselves. Each person each part had to learn what do I really want, who am I really, and then once that happened they could start to work things out together. That was kind of what I was I don't know. That's how I was thinking about it.
Speaker 6:I like the idea of I mean, not the idea. I resonate instead of like the idea of, like, the person who's kind of, like, banished or the person who, like, knows what the problem is or what's happening, but, like, nobody else wants to see it, so let's just lock them up. Let's just, like, not say their name and pretend like they're not here. And also the person that's, like, seen as not having a gift is, like, one of the most important people. I guess it kinda reminds me too of Inside Out when, like, sad is, like, the most important of, like, the one that's, like, overlooked or or whatever.
Speaker 6:And also, it's extremely hard for us to sit down and watch a movie, so thank you for helping
Speaker 7:us do
Speaker 6:that. It's, like, impossible. We we still couldn't do it. We just can't do it. I don't know
Speaker 1:what that is. Talking about resonating. I am really resonated with the girl who could hear everything. I have this part and, they they're always listening. They're always on the lookout.
Speaker 1:When they're around, I hear everything really, really, really loudly. Even the smallest crunkle of a little piece of paper. And I found that really interesting that each each gift, I really don't know what I'm trying to say, but definitely everyone just looks at me really funny.
Speaker 5:Hey, Kim. Can I say that you kinda reminded me of the father who's got bit by the bees, always supporting all the group? And you kinda just rolled along, not really bouncing between each person. Yeah. I've got a big
Speaker 8:nose here. It's a bit bit, a big ear over here because I got scratched. Yeah. But I'm still here.
Speaker 5:No. It's just the way he was supportive. You know? He just accepted people where they were at, and he tried to understand everybody. And, you know, I just that's what made me think of that.
Speaker 3:When I think about the specific roles everyone played, There were a couple things that I noticed. One was that everyone wore clothes that matched their gift. The design was embroidered into their little outfits and they had a specific color or a specific something that represented what their gift was except for the girl and she was covered in butterflies in her outfit and she was the only one that had all the colors and it was like she had all the gifts. But everyone else who just had one gift, it was almost like, except for the ones who were ostracized, right? And how many of us as survivors have been the black sheep of our family or the scapegoat of our family or half parts of that, parts like that inside?
Speaker 3:Where we just don't talk about Bruno. I'm totally gonna name some insiders Bruno now because I'm like, oh, there they are. Except it turned out that Bruno wasn't a bad guy, right? And all of the people who thought that they were trying to function and trying so hard to do the right thing and trying so hard to do what they're so good at, were all doing that for other people. And it was interesting because they were not inauthentic, like the girl that was so strong trying to lift donkeys and pianos and tables all at the same time just because she wanted, like, it wasn't like she was faking, and it wasn't that she didn't want to be good.
Speaker 3:It's that she wanted so much to be good. She needed to be good to be safe. Like it's fawning, right? All of their gifts were fawning for other people. Like it was all for the purpose of being safe externally just like their gifts were on their clothes instead of who they were.
Speaker 3:I don't know, that was just symbolic to me. And that's the same as like so many of us have been the black sheep or so many of us have been the scapegoat or something. There's that piece too that so many of us have alters or parts or pieces of ourselves, people in ourselves, however you want to say it, that we are not aware of and yet they're so aware of us, or that we are aware of but avoid or think that or assume that they are not participating at all and yet there he was watching like the most intimate moments, not in a creepy way but in a trying to be present. Like he even had his plate on the table, he had drawn the plate on the table because he so wanted to be a part and he so wanted to participate. And that was as close as he safely could and not cause harm.
Speaker 3:And I think that maybe just because of what we're going through personally right now, but I think that that was a piece that we resonated with a lot as well in that how often are there people that all of sudden I want to cry, I want to try not to cry because I got to function right, so now I'm going to power through and lift the piano and the donkeys. But how often are there finally safe people that we have found and worked hard on relationships and have them and then we go away, not even pushing them away, but we go away and stay back just far enough that we can be safe or even because we don't want other people to be in danger because of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I get that. Alright. I have no words. I wanted to say that too, that what I wanted to say actually was, you know Bruno and how he's like the scapegoat and he so desperately wants to be there and, like, everybody just says, oh, he's gone away, but then the girl who put here always knew that he was there and didn't actually say anything or speak up for him because she was trying to be perfect.
Speaker 1:Because, you know, the mom who was actually just broken herself because she had to push away her feelings, it really helped me understand the pushing away of feelings. Just even not as DID, even in like culture, how people they run away and push away their feelings so that others think that they're okay and that they're acceptable in society. Know? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, and not just that, but even normalizing what it is to be isolated. He was literally living in the walls with the rats and, like, not enough supplies and not quite enough food and just pretending that that was all okay. And I thought, oh, that's me living in the closet, like literally. I'm here in the closet. Life is great.
Speaker 3:Do I leave my house? No. No, I do not. At what point is that normal? Know, this morning I had an appointment, on Monday mornings I have my appointment with the, dietitian, like the nutritionist, and she had the audacity to say to me today that three meals a day are non negotiable.
Speaker 1:What does
Speaker 9:that even mean non negotiable? What are you
Speaker 3:talking she's like, we trust each other enough. I just need to speak to you directly. I'm like, I don't trust you.
Speaker 9:Where is this coming from? What are
Speaker 3:you talking about? She and okay. I and I am not trying. I'm not trying to dismiss any struggles with eating or trigger any issues with eating, but I've been working with her for, specific self care. I have realized that there's, like, a lot of gaps in my knowledge.
Speaker 3:I think we talked about this on the podcast that just growing up with neglect and growing up missing skills and different things. Like I just didn't learn properly to care for myself. And so I do eat, but I don't know how to balance my food or actually nourish myself. And when I'm cooking for 10 people every day, like it's exhausting. And I don't and my youngest daughter needs because we've got her off the g tube and so I have to, anyway it's just a lot and the grandparents, my husband's parents, are in their ninety's and struggling and deteriorating and it's really really sad, I need to make sure they're nourished enough.
Speaker 3:Anyway, I finally just got help. And she's been very patient and kind. But what happens with me is that I can do really well with breakfast, I can make lunch happen, but then like I don't care about dinner, like
Speaker 9:I just want to go
Speaker 3:to bed, I'm tired, I have eaten already, I'm not particularly hungry, so I got the whole speech about mechanical eating and we worked on that for several months about how our body needs nourishment whether I actually want it or not and she's like you know some people when they don't eat they lose a lot of weight and it's a problem and if they're restricting on purpose then we call it this and these people are learning these things but you just don't eat and so your body stores everything and I'm like well I'm a big girl so it just is. I don't know why I didn't get to be a skinny girl but that's cool. So right. No. And so I'm having this discussion with her and trying to make light of it, and she says it's non negotiable that nourishing yourself and drinking water too.
Speaker 3:I'm like, oh, drink this water. She's like, oh, that's not enough for the whole day. You need like five of those. I'm like, what's wrong with you? I can't even I don't have time.
Speaker 3:I don't have time to drink water. She's like, that's a problem. We need to talk about that. You know? And so it's just and I don't mean to get off topic, but that's part of the one of the things I saw.
Speaker 3:Seeing Bruno living inside the walls of the house, I thought that is what I feel like living on this planet watching like girls go to their little lunches or whatever they do or people like moms at the school or and I don't just mean like I fear missing out. Like, don't care. I have no fears of missing out. I'm okay with missing out. What is that?
Speaker 3:Umo instead? I don't know. But I'm literally in the closet. And, well, not in the closet closet, but, I'm I'm literally sitting here, and I have my little life where I'm trying to take care of the kids, and that's a lot. I'm trying to take care of the in laws, and that's a lot.
Speaker 3:So that's all I do because I respect my spoons, which is all true. But also, at what point did I just decide that it was okay to be entirely alone in the world? Like, I don't mean, I don't mean that all of it's my fault. I don't mean that in shaming in any way. I just mean, like, at what point did what we grow up with get so normalized that I don't know I need to eat dinner?
Speaker 3:At what point did being so pushed aside as the black sheep or the scapegoat or whatever and so ostracized become so normalized that I thought, oh, I'm dangerous to the world so I just won't go there and feel that as much as the world is dangerous to me and so I don't want to go there. Like I don't think until I saw this movie that I realized it was going both ways.
Speaker 1:Crystal's just said she's gonna turn off her camera and eat. I love that. I have to put, I I just forget, and I don't know. And sometimes, our husband says that, Have you eaten today? And I It's like 01:00 in the afternoon, and I'll go, Oh, no.
Speaker 1:I think it's a little bit the same as that. I have an alarm on at the moment. It's actually on for every ninety minutes that I have something really small every single ninety minutes and have this thing here beside me. And I try to make sure I drink two of these, because I've got this theory. It's not on I'll back to MultiMERS.
Speaker 1:But I've got this theory that if I can get my body nutritionalized, then maybe my brain might start working together and everybody inside, like, I'll be nurturing everybody inside as well. Interesting you were saying how Bruno, like, I think he was very happy to stay inside, like, come and visit me. It's kind of like what's happened here. We're not in lockdown. I can leave the house, all that other stuff.
Speaker 1:However, it's so much nicer and easier for the rest of the world and for me if we don't leave the house. And I think it's about spoons, you know. We, you know, like you said, Emma, you are nourishing your spoons or nurturing your spoons or whatever you were doing with your spoons. Like, you know how many spoons you've got. And if you if I leave the house and do something like grocery shop, man, that's all these spoons that I don't have.
Speaker 1:And I've wasted all those things. So staying and also, I don't say something really stupid to somebody else at the checkout or something, and they just look at me going, okay. And it, like, wipes half their day away because something done has been said. That's why I stay at home. I forgot what you said.
Speaker 1:I was gonna come back, multi. I think I resonate with everyone in that house, Even the house itself. You know how it was like doing all this stuff and it was trying to keep everybody okay and look it's the time, look quick go and do this. I think the house had a lot of hard work to do. I think the house was running out of spoons.
Speaker 1:No wonder it was breaking. It really helped me remember we need to work together as a system. I don't know how to make that happen. Maybe I should blow out a candle. I'm not sure, but anyway, I'm interested to hear what others have to say about who they resonate with, like, what multi men said.
Speaker 3:I just agree with you, but that's my perspective with the union background that we play all the parts. And so I really resonated. And some of them I did not want to resonate with and really had to stop and think like, okay, what about this really is having to do with me? I'm just super uncomfortable. So I'm just I'm just, still reflecting on that, I guess.
Speaker 3:I think the part that
Speaker 1:made me
Speaker 3:uncomfortable with that character Isabella was that she was so trying so hard to be so perfect that she was really irritable and pushing around pushing away the people that actually were nice to her, and I was like, oh, pretty sure this is my parenting. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry. We're like, I don't know. Just just those days. Today was one of those days for me where I felt like I had a lot to do. It was a classic Monday.
Speaker 3:I was getting fussed at and corrected by a lot of people about why don't you talk about this? Why don't you do this? Why don't you need to do this? Like, people telling me how to do my job at, like, every job that I have. And it's just like, you know what?
Speaker 3:Because I'm just me. I'm just trying my best. I was thinking about that and applying it in other ways of what things have I thought were so, so hard and I felt so much pressure about, and yet I was kind of doing it to myself in ways that I didn't realize I was doing it to myself, or parts, whatever, as a system, systemically, we were doing that to ourselves. And one of the things that came up for me was even with my previous Kelly, because yes, this and this and this and this happened, and that was hard. All of that's true, but it's also true that I was so busy fawning that I never used my words and said, hey, this is what I'm feeling and this is what's happening with me.
Speaker 3:And I do not at all mean that it was my fault or my job or any of that. I don't I don't at all mean any of that. But I never said, hey. This is going on. Even when I talked about on the podcast before, I knew it was gonna be a two year or a deal that was humiliating for the entire planet.
Speaker 3:But I never said. And so so that's one thing that I finally did this week actually was send her a letter and say this was hard and this was hard and this was hard and this was hard and this is how I felt and this is how I experienced it. And it was brutal, it was really brutal, but I sent it. And I did get a response back to Dave that was actually very apologetic but very authentic, and I feel like heard those pieces. And feel and even though I know that when we're in therapy, it's our therapist's job to do the therapist's job, absolutely.
Speaker 3:But I feel badly that it took me, like, if this started the year before that, then like three years to even figure out what my system was telling me that was wrong. Like I think about the cracks in the house and the only reason it kept cracking and it escalated so much or took so long was because I couldn't say, maybe that makes me like the abuela, right? Like I couldn't say this is where my pain is. This is what's hurting me. And because of that, like it caused this whole dissension and this dark podcast and all this season that we went through, which I understand all had a purpose and everyone's been very gracious about, but still at the same time, I did not have the skills or capacity to directly communicate this, this, this.
Speaker 3:And finally figuring out how to do that, I feel like, was like the daughter getting her hug. Like, I don't mean I need something from a therapist at this point, I have a new therapist, that's going fine, but like a hug for myself almost, of like, so and so who shall remain nameless, and no, I will not say Bruno because then I will get in trouble, but a certain someone who kinda had a point the whole time, and I'm so sorry that I wasn't listening. You know, but to finally say, okay, that part of me that I thought you were just only causing trouble, you actually had a point. I should have listened. I'm really sorry.
Speaker 3:And then it's like flowers and cactus everywhere. You know? Lots of cactus. Cacti. But there's something about that that brings healing of just being able to talk about it.
Speaker 3:And that's not always safe to do or appropriate to do, I know. But just even internally acknowledging, like what she said, that's a big confession that you've just said this out loud, you were just doing it for the family, you were just, you don't really like that guy, you don't really, and I thought what concessions do we give into because we think it's expected of us because of our system or because of people around us or because of fawning that we need to pause and say, that's not okay. That's not safe or healthy or good or you know what I do want to be a good mom. I want to be a really good mom. But I also have to pee and I also have to eat sometimes and I also need to sit down for two minutes and you know whatever and that you can do those things without causing harm and actually being more authentic is what brings the healing and teaches them and models that.
Speaker 3:I don't know, it's a lot of pieces. Who else? There was a boiler, was there anything else about her? Crystals?
Speaker 6:I think that well, yeah, different ones of us resonate with different ones. But as far as the Abuela, like, that group of people is, like, our work people, and they're probably the most frequent renters in places. And, like, they can go to work and and, like, never stop working. Like like and it's they're completely disconnected from everything else that's going on until, like, the house actually falls apart. Then yeah.
Speaker 6:And doing things like like, we've grown a lot, so we don't do this like we used to, but, like, saying we're crying when we're not or not even knowing that we're not fine.
Speaker 1:And
Speaker 6:I think right now there's I don't know, system conflict, I guess, because we quit our job, which is in part because our mental health just couldn't do it. But that's not what we're showing the world. We're showing the world that we quit our job to start this really cool business that no one's done and we're so great. And but then, like, I don't know. We don't have it in common.
Speaker 6:We were terrified to ask our therapist if she could, like, sign our disability paper because our other doctor wouldn't, and it was just like, we're fine. Like, we don't need you know? We were very relieved that she said yes because we actually, I
Speaker 7:don't know, don't think that
Speaker 6:we need that, I guess. We can just not have an income and not have health insurance, and that's cool.
Speaker 3:Survival is non negotiable, Crystal. Kate brought up the strong sister. None of us, none of us identify with that. Of being the strong one and certainly not any alter or part who is strong enough to front for a zoom meeting about a movie. Of course, we're all fine.
Speaker 1:I I did, I don't know if I missed it or not, but did the strong one juggle those donkeys and the piano and stuff? Because I reckon there's a strong one in here doing all that juggling and that it never gets put down. And then more things get added and added and added. And, yeah, all that juggling is what our strong one does. I reckon there needs to be an encanto too so that we see what they do together.
Speaker 7:Know? That was my favorite song, so maybe that says something.
Speaker 1:Which song?
Speaker 6:The song of her when she was, like, juggling everything and It's called Surface Pressure is the name of the song.
Speaker 7:There was something else that I saw. This song also was how she was able to do and she was able to say sometimes I cry too. Sometimes I cry too is what she said. And I thought it was just interesting. Here she thinks she has to put on this act that she is strong all the time and that that's what her value is.
Speaker 7:That's where her value comes from is being able to be strong and juggle everything and carry everything and move everything and do it all. And yet she admits that sometimes by herself she'll cry. And then I don't remember who it was, but said, and that's okay, we all do. And I thought that that was just a view such a beautiful scene of her being, you know, told that it's okay to be you. You don't have to put on that front.
Speaker 7:So that was something that we could really relate to as well.
Speaker 6:Her is this, group that meets once a week or so, every other week, whenever. And, we were looking at our human design charts, and she was like, You're here to feel. You're here to cry. And I was like, I never cry. And she was like, well, that's why you're here.
Speaker 6:You need to cry or something. And and then the next week in the group, like, I started crying and had no idea why. And I was just crying and nobody noticed. And I was, like, so trying to hide it and trying not to and being like, I just need to touch my face real. And then finally somebody noticed and then they all like paid attention and were really they were really nice.
Speaker 6:They were really sweet. And she was just like, your tears were like, gold. It was like but it was it was just like, even though she had said that before, it was still so hard to like, I don't know, be there like that.
Speaker 5:Kim, can I put you on the spot?
Speaker 3:You can always put Kim on the spot.
Speaker 8:Everyone can. I don't I don't mind. Just wondered,
Speaker 5:being a somebody who does not dissociate, as far as I know, did this movie help you understand maybe a little bit what it could be like being someone who dissociates if you look at it from a DID perspective?
Speaker 8:I went into the movie trying to look at it that way because of the,
Speaker 1:what was on the
Speaker 8:on our website. But I just kinda felt like I was seeing, I guess, bits and pieces of me in it. I wasn't really looking at it from, I guess, would say a plural or DID perspective, but I saw me in all of those places. I saw me as the house. I saw me as Bruno.
Speaker 8:Like, I I could see pieces of me in each character. So I I definitely got it as far as I can see how this could be, like, a super problem. Or I used to do that when I was little. And and even some of the stuff today, I'm like, I wonder if I still do that now. So there were some takeaways that I have.
Speaker 8:So I was seeing it from my perspective. And so as you all have been talking tonight, I'm seeing it now from a DID perspective. And I'm like, oh, it's a little deeper than what I was seeing for me. Because, you know, that's a whole another ballgame that you guys have going on. But I could see it, and I could see the the challenges, but I could also see the reward or the risk or the reward of it.
Speaker 8:If you can come out on the other side, especially when you all are talking about Bruno and how he's especially, I think it was Kate who was saying, like, he had or someone who was saying he had his own little plate, and he's, like, watching through the thing because he so wants to be a part. And I know that in talking to some of you here and in talking to the crew, like, there's someone who's always, like, peering through. And they all know that they're peering. They never really come out with everyone, but they're always watching. And, like, I think it was Emma who was saying, it's not creepy.
Speaker 8:They're there, but they're just for whatever reason not fully present. And so I'm like, maybe it's a Bruno thing.
Speaker 3:What about what about just looking at all the characters? What about the one that was a shape shifter? None of us would ever do that Using different presentations to deal with what was happening in life. Let's just take a raise of hands. No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 3:Oh my goodness, right? Seriously. No.
Speaker 1:I think it's confronting. I think that's what I do. Like, because when somebody's really close or if somebody's influencing me, it's like shape shifting, although I'm still there. Anyway, that's just how I see it because I just thought, oh, yes, that's what I think. Anyway, think of
Speaker 10:that as when someone might pretend to be someone else so that no one outside knows who they are. Like, pretending to be the host or pretending to be the one who's supposed to do whatever job they're like doing.
Speaker 3:Kate, I've experienced that when I have been in situations where there were people who thought they knew me or knew our system or knew about DID, but we did not feel safe letting them know who was out or switching in front of them. And I don't even know how we do it. Like, I could not say, oh, this is how we do that, or this is how I ask them to do that. But I have felt it happen and been aware that that's the context that it was happening.
Speaker 6:Same kind of thing. We read this book, this You novel called Everyday, and it's about this person that is in a different person's life every day, like wakes up in a different person's life and, like, pretends like they're the person, even though they're their own person. And it was, like, such a good book as far as the experience of being multiple and, like, pretending, like like if a kid or whoever has to pretend like we're all the same person all the time, or pretending to know things that you don't know, or that you know people you don't know, or Does
Speaker 1:that happen to you too? Someone's talking to you and you supposedly know them, crystals, and you don't. And they're talking to you and it's like, okay, yeah. And does that happen to you too?
Speaker 6:We're super good at it. Like, so good that we don't even realize it's happening anymore. Like, we just like, oh, I guess I don't remember that person. Like, it wasn't like until we got into recovery. And our sponsor was like, go introduce yourself to three people you don't know at, like, every meeting.
Speaker 6:And we introduced ourselves to the same person
Speaker 1:three times. And it
Speaker 6:had long conversations with that person, and she was like, Are you serious? Like I was like, Okay, we're not doing that anymore. But sometimes what happens is the person who knows either comes from, and then it just feels like, Oh, we just remembered. It was just out of context. But now being around, like, a bunch of people who are plural, like, we're learning that that's a Like, that person either comes up or they tell us.
Speaker 6:And so it's not that the person that was out actually, like,
Speaker 7:remembered, but
Speaker 5:I don't know.
Speaker 6:But, like, when you live with it, you don't realize it's not everybody that does that. Like, singlers people don't do that. And I
Speaker 4:think as well, like, it's like the ultimate camouflage. Like, if I think about a chameleon, if he goes walking in the sand, he becomes the sand. And I think, like, for us, I like to think that's how my brain kind of does it, even if I'm not the person who knows the person I'm talking to and know how to say the right things, even though I don't know why and have no memory or context to it. And then, like you said, like, over time and over years, you just go with it like it's normal before you kind of realize that it's not normal and people are, like, waving you down. And then when you start that, like, I guess, awareness of DID is
Speaker 5:when
Speaker 4:you actually or for us anyways, when we actually thought, Well, hang on. I have no idea who this person is. Are they talking to the person behind me? Like, What the frig is going on? That's what happened for us anyway.
Speaker 4:It actually got worse. It's kind of like the, oh,
Speaker 6:I do lose time. No, I don't. Like
Speaker 4:Yeah. And, like, even with the movie, like, just, indicative of our lives at the moment. I couldn't even watch the whole thing. I was up and down, grocery shopping online, came back. Like, I just couldn't sit still with it.
Speaker 4:I don't know. I found it really
Speaker 5:hard to watch. It's just so stupid.
Speaker 4:But I'm the same as Zeus Crystals. Can't watch movies. I'm really bad at sitting there and watching them.
Speaker 6:But then also, I reckon I
Speaker 4:could probably write a novel about what happened.
Speaker 6:But we can sit and watch some scary thing about what's gonna happen in the future about this whole world and watch that for two hours, but we can't watch it for
Speaker 4:two Yeah. Or like murder murder a documentary or something like that. Like, that's fine.
Speaker 6:I think what we do with the shape shifting thing is that we are just good at simulating excitement to see people. Because we are excited to see people. But also, like, getting switching the focus to them so that they're talking and so that that, like I don't know. You just learn all these little things.
Speaker 1:Yes. That is so, so,
Speaker 4:so true. It's so easy to get people to
Speaker 5:talk about
Speaker 1:themselves. You guys have a good toolbox. That's why I stay at home because I don't have that toolbox. And I nap, and I make fools of myself constantly. Like, do I know you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they say, and I go, Okay, I'm sorry. My memory is really bad, you know. But that's why
Speaker 4:I stay at home. In that context, I would just be like, Oh, hi. How are going? How's your day? Like and just make the biggest small talk before I could figure out try and figure out or try and get the memory of who the hell this person is and how we know them or, like, ask more open ended questions to try and figure it out.
Speaker 6:Or just talk about what's happening in the present. Like, oh, are
Speaker 1:you in touch
Speaker 6:at a conference or whatever it is. Yeah, exactly. Great. Two years later, oh, that's how I knew that person.
Speaker 1:It goes back to the eating thing, I think, you know, like never being taught, never being taught, like, I don't know, maybe most people get this just normally, but never being taught how to relate to somebody else or never being taught, you know, how to clean. Like, our adult daughter came over and she said to me, I had to learn what clean was. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness, I don't even know what clean is myself. Like, what is that? You know?
Speaker 1:It's almost as if I want to find life lessons, like the stuff that you learn as a kid just haphazardly, but it didn't happen for us.
Speaker 6:I get so much of that kind of stuff with parenting
Speaker 4:and, like, so worried about the things that I don't know that I don't know. I find that really difficult as much as everybody is like, You're great. You're doing fine. It's like, No, but what about the stuff I don't know about?
Speaker 6:But I think for us, the What's that thing when
Speaker 4:you go wrong with people? I forget the word. But, like, being able to talk to people, I suppose. Like, I think for us, that was the biggest coping mechanism that we had because if we were able to talk to people and engage with people and talk about them and not talk about us and make sure that they knew that we were fine, like, and that's what they thought. That was the biggest way for us to keep safe.
Speaker 4:So I guess that's maybe a reason as to why we're good at it. Not necessarily that we were taught good manners or, like, proper ways of doing it, but that we figured out that that was, like, woah, actually, like, critical for our survival.
Speaker 6:And I just want to let you
Speaker 4:know that, I resonate with what you said so much. And when you're stopping to try and think of an example, that's the exact example that I thought of in my head that I struggle with when I parent my own kids who I did give birth to. I don't remember it, but I did. And that hugging is just so hard. And like, I literally in my head am screaming, Get off me.
Speaker 4:Get off me. You're choking me. Get off me. And trying to keep that experience internal so that they have a positive external experience.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I do you know what I've learned how to do, with the huggling and the giving huggles and when they come, it's really, might sound really strange, but because everything inside of me just like freezes and tingles and it's really hard, what I do is I imagine that maybe they would be like me, and I would be the nurturing mother. Maybe that's that union thing again, Emma. But then when I'm nurturing and I'm hugging them, I'm thinking, okay, I'm hugging the little part of me so that I'm actually, while I'm nurturing them, I'm somehow nurturing a little in me. And that's weird and it seems really selfish, but that's how I'm able to hug my children now because I imagine hugging a little and that they're getting better. And if they're better, maybe I'll be better.
Speaker 1:That's what I think.
Speaker 4:That just blew my mind.
Speaker 9:I made me really uncomfortable. I
Speaker 3:feel like it is a healthy and good and right thing that you have come up with and I hope someday to attain it. But I think that if I imagine them in my mind, that means admitting that they're there. Oh my god. I wanna crawl out of my skin right now. Like, I wanna take my ears off.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to leave my ears on so I can keep listening. Somebody did not like that at all.
Speaker 4:Anyway, who resonated with the little boy?
Speaker 5:I'm always the oddball. I wanted to hug him and, you know, as a kid.
Speaker 3:I think that's so tender and so sweet what both of you shared, though, even though I am teasing but not teasing about how uncomfortable it may look, there I'm not crying at all but there are tears pouring down my face. You can't see them because the lights are so bad if you're just pouring like I'm fine. I'm not crying but someone is bawling. There's tears just pouring down my face. They're not even mine.
Speaker 3:But both of you what you said was so tender like her saying, she was a kid of course I just wanted to scoop him up and hug him. Know like I don't have that response. I have like this aversion and my house is full of children and I and so I carry this shame that I don't know why, like why can't I just soften like that? Maybe maybe that will come in time, but they're gonna be grown before I get there. Like, I'm I'm trying.
Speaker 3:I'm trying.
Speaker 5:It still matters, Emma, and I'm sorry. I don't wish hurt on anybody, but it still matters.
Speaker 1:I I think that's why I collect animals. I'm not allowed to collect children, but I'm waiting I'm sorry. I'm waiting for the nurturing to happen. Sorry, made you laugh. But that, yeah, I have I just got three more chickens.
Speaker 1:I have tens of thousands of bees. I have two dogs, a cat, and, I want more, but I can't nurture the dogs and the bees either, but I'm waiting. I know it's gonna come. Yeah. But I think
Speaker 4:the point is it's not our fault. It's not something that's wrong with us so that we can't do it right or that it doesn't come naturally to me because I don't think that's true
Speaker 10:for any of us. For us, it's like when the younger ones have learned a lot from animals because it's like she's learned that cat, that you don't just go running at a cat because the cat run away or groundhogs will run away. And that if you poke slowly, a cat will be like, oh, okay. Now you can pet me or now you can look at me because there's a cat cafe nearby. And it's fun to walk by and stare in the window.
Speaker 10:Even when it's super cold out late today, you can walk by and there'll be cats. And some of them just totally ignore you. And then some kind of come looking at people right now because people can't go spend time with the cat. So their main interaction is kind of like through the window. The people will actually stare in.
Speaker 10:It's like, one was staring at me briefly. Some of other ones should ignore you. And it's almost like seeing Antonio and how he can interact so well already with the animals. It's almost like animals help teach, I guess, everyone or especially younger ones how to, like, interact because they provide that, I guess, unconditional love, and they show it in that way.
Speaker 4:I guess the other thing I'm thinking of as well is that actually, no, that I'm trying to learn. I actually had this question in therapy. I don't know which therapy, but a therapy. I was like, what even is love? Like, how does a parent show their child that they love them?
Speaker 4:Because I wanted to make sure that I was doing that for my kids. And I think I mean, I have no idea what she I can't recall what she said, but I think the thing is, like, touch and hugging and all those kinds of things that most of us find so difficult is just one aspect of love. And we might not get it right a lot of the time and it might be really painful for us, but I'm sure that we all show our kids love in so many different other ways that, you know, they can get a hug off their dad or their uncle or their auntie or a friend or something like that, to fill up that little part of their cup if we don't do it right on a certain day or anything like that. And I think the thing to remember is that, yeah, it's only one aspect of love. There's so many other ways that we can show our children love that they're like, quote unquote, normal population or, I don't know what's a nice way to put it.
Speaker 4:Normal population can't do that we can. You know, we've got so many things to offer our kids that most parents wouldn't be able to offer their children. So with the good comes bad.
Speaker 3:Well, and what about not just like those tender moments like you've shared about with your kids or wanting to scoop him up
Speaker 1:and hug
Speaker 3:him, what about the part of us, like, that needs to receive that? Like, the part of us that where food is not negotiable because they're so innocent that they need nourishment. What about the part of us that just needs care or tending to or whatever love looks like in safe meaningful ways to them. So not just how do we give love whether that's outside children or pets or nieces and nephews or cousins or anything, but also receiving that. How do you receive that innocence as a part of yourself?
Speaker 1:Yeah. That might be twenty years time therapy work. I
Speaker 4:was gonna say that's in the too hard basket. For me,
Speaker 5:I am blessed that I had family that never gave up. They showed up, and they kept showing up, and they never stopped. They remember my past. I don't, so they know what that's from, and they never gave up on me. And it would just bore me down.
Speaker 5:It got easier to say, okay, my god, I'll I'll go to this function, or I have a bad habit of engaging and then disengaging, engaging and disengaging. And my family actually keeps track. So it's accountability. And even when I faked it and I don't mean fake it like I don't care for them. I think we all care for each other.
Speaker 5:You know? We're humans. Even when you try to fake it, it just eventually sticks. I just had to allow it to stick, I guess. I don't know.
Speaker 5:But, yeah, I'm fortunate. I don't I don't rely on my therapist, I think, the way that some have to, and that's heartbreaking to me because I've got family and friends that role model to me what these things could be that's so hard for other people. Yeah. I'm pretty lucky. And I don't mean to be a toxic polyan either.
Speaker 5:I just want to have hope. I just wish everybody could have it, you know, as long as it takes. You're worth it. Everybody's worth it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I don't think that's an example of a toxic positivity at all. I think it's just, at least for us, it's two different lessons to learn to give love and connect either internally or externally, littles or bigs or friendships or whatever, and also to receive, like they're two separate, at least for us, I don't know, maybe it's more integrated than that, I'm just not there, but it feels like two separate, at least for where we are, it's two separate lessons. Because there's a lot I can do for others that I don't know how to do for myself. There's a lot of innocence I can see in others that is hard to remember as a part of me.
Speaker 6:I think it's hard to have those kind of two way relationships. Like, feel like I connected deeply with therapists, and I've connected deeply when I was, like, back, way back when I was seeing clients, like, in a different way. But both of those were, like, one way relationships that weren't, like, reciprocal. And, like, the reciprocal part is really
Speaker 5:I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 6:I guess I don't know how to take turns. Don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm a bit the same there. And I was thinking, like, what does love even feel like? You know? I don't know what it feels like. And, like, a friend will say, you know, just a friend friend, and she'll say, I love you.
Speaker 1:I wish we could spend more time together. And I'm just going, You do? Why? And what for? You know?
Speaker 1:And like Emma was saying, I'm willing, like me, us here, willing to do the nurturing and the loving for someone else. But me personally, who I am right this second, I'm not willing to receive any love because there's some good, solid, thick brick walls there. And, yeah, twenty years later. Thank you very much.
Speaker 7:Emma, I just want to say that as odd as this may sound, I feel like I'm beginning to understand love a little bit better just from this group. Just the comments that people say, I hear you. You matter and I care. Regardless of anything else, those words are the beginning of saying, Is that what it's supposed to be? So this community has been huge in that kind of way.
Speaker 7:When my children tell me, you know, I love you, it's like, well, that's a child speaking to a parent. But it's accepting and believing that that love isn't gonna shift to something else. Anywhere else, often feels like it's impossible. But here, it's like everyone knows what that feels like. So it feels so genuine, even though I don't know any of you except for your face on online.
Speaker 7:But it it feels genuine. It feels like that hug through the words, like a hug through the screen at a meetup. It feels like and it's a safe hug because nobody's touching me, but I can sense the presence of that kind of care. So sister speak is I don't know how we found it. Have zero idea how we got here, but we did.
Speaker 7:And it's just such a blessing. Thank you for putting this together. That was
Speaker 5:a nice hug. Yeah. I felt that one all the way in Australia.
Speaker 3:I have one last question. The other character that we have not talked about yet is the house itself. We referenced it a little bit, but in like union, dream work, or things like that, a house is usually like your consciousness. Or in a DID framework, like what would that be? Would that be the body?
Speaker 3:Would it be that flow between parts that somehow connects us even when we're not remembering or aware of it? What is that? And then how interesting is it that when the house began to crack split, right? When the house began to crack and split, the first damage that really happened was the roof shingle falling off, and that protection. And when we are not taking care of each other, whether that's externally like she was sharing about the community, or whether that's internally with our system community inside, what we lose is protection.
Speaker 3:What we lose is safety. And that feels significant too. And I think that's part of what makes like what she shared, that safe hog safe, is when we are working together and those cracks are healed and and there things are smoothed out and and our house is strong, whatever our house is, then there's that protection that comes as part of it.
Speaker 5:No. I thought the house was the body too, and the villagers would have been my family. Like, you're outside. Yeah. Like, my group's inside my house, but I have the villagers out there to help.
Speaker 5:If something breaks apart, do they come in? They may not know names and things like that, but
Speaker 1:When I was watching it, the first time, this was the second time. The first time was, like, the other day or something. I actually was waiting for the, I was waiting for the, like, whole village. I thought the whole village was it. And I was actually waiting for, like, the mountains.
Speaker 1:What I was thinking was, you know, when the original husband sort of died and he gave her that candle, I thought that whole new world was her inner space. You know how Tapestry talks about it? Their inner world and everything was just so beautiful and even the villages was just so beautiful. And I was waiting the whole movie for when it all crumbled that it would open up and they'd actually see the outer world and see what they had sort of missed and they everybody was inside. That's what I was thinking of and the house was just was not just, but the house was another part of that inner world.
Speaker 1:That's what I, the first time I saw it, that's how I saw it, and it didn't happen.
Speaker 3:Well, and that brings up the question if metaphor everything including the villagers even are inside, then what part of me is that? If we're so busy tearing the house down that we're not helping each other, then it puts all of us at risk, right?
Speaker 4:See, that totally resonated with me because of, like, different groups of parts maybe. Does that make sense? Yeah, exactly that. Like, when I look at it now, I think, like, if I just look at the house, I'm like, where are all the parts of
Speaker 7:the people? Like, there should
Speaker 4:be millions. Are there ants parts of people too? Like, where are all the rest of them? And so when I thought about that, that connected me with the village in that, you know, the people inside the house didn't necessarily know each other very well. And that was kind of the journey, I suppose.
Speaker 4:But then there's a whole another journey just outside that's not even through the hills. Does that make sense? It's beneficial.
Speaker 5:It's confusing you. You guys remember in the movie where Maribella looks in the doorknob, and she sees herself, and she says, I see me. That cut scene to everybody behind her, that was huge to me. That was huge. And as far as we I I got the boundary of the external world from the mountains.
Speaker 5:And remember when what was her name? Abuela? The the matriarch grandmother went out to the external world where she experienced trauma, and she went there looking for Maribel. And to me, that was the outside world. And that was the outside world that was interfering with what was going on.
Speaker 5:You know, there's
Speaker 7:this beautiful house or so it looks like, yet it's it's crumbling in the midst. And it's like, that's the past. That's the past that was being held together by what looked like everything was good, but it really isn't. And it's, in the end, they rebuild the house. And when they do, she says it isn't perfect.
Speaker 7:And they're like, but it's good enough. And to me, that was huge. It was a beautiful rebuilding of a real life, imperfect yet wonderful. Everybody run to it to celebrate and be together in the house. And that there was a realness to the desire to be together in celebration of the rebuild and experiencing the present life rather than this divided life as people who were living together, but nothing about it was was authentically was authentic.
Speaker 7:So it was just that's how I experienced it. You mean
Speaker 5:a host that doesn't have any clue? I practically don't know what's going on sometimes, guys, but I own that. I own it. So and then when we talk about the destruction of the house being a bad thing, maybe it wasn't necessarily maybe it was a necessary good thing. Maybe in disrupting the house and the destruction of the house, without it, they wouldn't have been able to build a better foundation.
Speaker 5:You know? God, this is getting really sappy. Sorry. No. I totally agree
Speaker 7:with you because we're like, we have to start with a new solid foundation. It was one of the lines that they said and how important it was that the old had to be torn down in order to build something new that was strong and was gonna sustain you know, be substantial. I thought was was pretty deep, that whole that whole scene. And then for her to look in and to see herself and to see herself into the future, if you will, and that the past you know, everything didn't end in her life because the past was gone, but that she was now entering into a new future life.
Speaker 1:If you think about the last podcast, not the last podcast, but the first phase, it's like all those cracks that Emma had to go through were horrible as they were, and gosh, you want to hurry them along. Like, get a sledgehammer. Hurry up, hurry up. Like, we don't want this to take forever, you know? But at the same time, could you imagine how bad it would have been, like, with the sledgehammer?
Speaker 1:Hibbetted dippers. But, yeah, I love that, man. I love your perspective. It's just brilliant. You guys are gold.
Speaker 3:I think for us, we we sorta I felt like I felt I I felt like the row of trees that were between the house and the villagers and I felt like I could see all of the house of like, of course they over here, the magical ones who like when we're little have this imagination and create this whole problem that now I think is a problem of DID, right? But for them was magical and safety and special gifts and ways of protecting us and created a little world. So there they are still in the house in memory time, and I'm like, but I'm over here. I want to be in the village. I want to be functioning.
Speaker 3:I want to be living a life, but do I? Because I'm not there, but I'm scared to go back to the house, but as long as I'm not helping them, I don't even want to say this out loud, as long as I'm not helping them, then that house is falling apart. They are by themselves afraid and scared and stuck in memory time because they cannot do it without the villagers, without the present now time. You could even call it, some people call it like the villagers the A and Ps and the house would be the EPs, right? They're,
Speaker 10:of
Speaker 3:course they're falling apart because they're carrying too much by themselves. They cannot do it alone. It took the other people coming in with tools and resources and help and lots of connection to be able to fix it, to heal it, to make it better. But then I'm like, that's a lot.
Speaker 10:I guess I see it's almost like the house had to fall completely apart for the entire Maribel family to see or Maribel's like the rest of her family to see, okay, this is how bad things are. But then since everyone saw the house falling down and, like, saw them looking for her, it's almost like then almost like that forces you to open your, like, secrets to, like, the world. It's like, now everyone's seeing it. So you can't keep on the perfect thing. It's almost like your perfect act is broken down.
Speaker 10:But since now they've all seen it, it's like you might as well accept your help because now they know.
Speaker 3:Yes. And the house itself, like down to those last door frames did everything to protect the girl. Right? Everything. Even to, like, its dying breath when it finished and the little shutter just sighed.
Speaker 3:Like, that was so dramatic. But but to protect her. And then yet when it came back to life, when when she comes back to it and puts the doorknob in, like it has its own its own response to welcoming her and inviting not just her but everybody goes inside together and it's excited to see her and it's welcoming and safe which is very different than everybody else running away from her. Like it would the house welcomed her in a way her family did not.
Speaker 10:Anyone noticed when they're keeping, you know, how the family picture Tamir Habel was in the picture because she didn't have, like, the magic, but then husbands who married into the family were in the picture. Keep going. Keep going. I was just wondering if anyone else noticed that because I guess it's sort of a significant thing about how she's not included because she didn't get a gift when she came of age. But how I guess the people who married in, they're included in it because it's known they married in.
Speaker 6:I wasn't clear if she didn't exclude herself. I don't know if like, it seems kinda like to me that she kinda just didn't go get in the picture.
Speaker 3:Well, but also they didn't invite her or wait for her Yeah. Or ask. And so so I mean, I think a little of both are true, but but also that thinking about symbols, right? Like the order of things that should have included her caused that relational trauma that's so hard to talk about. They weren't physically attacking her, but verbally and emotionally and relationally there was so much trauma.
Speaker 3:And when they chose family, she wasn't part of the chosen family either. And so I think that's a good point, Kate. And I think that developmentally a lot of that happens where when we are little bitty in our families of origin, we feel all this relational trauma, but then as we grow up and hit these other developmental tasks, if that trauma is not tended to then we're still missing out on these things and we have relationship problems or because we're the black sheep we're left out of so and so's wedding or we have to behave if we show up to this event or that event, or we aren't allowed to make waves, or we are punished by being excluded. And that's that relational trauma now at an adult level, that's intense. That's intense.
Speaker 3:And it was just all symbolized in a photograph.
Speaker 6:Well, also my, I don't know what this means, but my view of like making it her fault or making it my fault, like, like, oh, I just didn't go instead of, like, for some reason, I wasn't comfortable going. Right? I didn't feel safe or I didn't wanna go. Like, why didn't I wanna go?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm still thinking because we're not good enough.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And and so not recognizing I'm not involved here in this moment because I'm not safe to go to that moment, to step into that moment. So I'm still excluded, but I think it's shame. Like it's that shame that comes from misattunement that I only feel the shame. I don't recognize, hey, like her seeing the cactus, right? Like I don't think, oh, this is actually brilliant that I have decided not to go to this toxic moment with the family.
Speaker 3:And instead I just feel, oh shame, is my fault. I'm not good enough, I'm not included, I'm not wanted, I'm not loved, I'm not whatever enough to be approved enough, to be invited, to be chosen. When really we know it's toxic and so good for us for not being there and it gets flipped. And that's interesting even to feel that gaslighting in the movie right after the holidays. You know, it's just kind of a lot.
Speaker 3:It's a lot.
Speaker 1:Well, here I've got a statement for that. They seem to be the people who are actually a part of it all by giving her, like, classeids, you know, nice things. You are enough. Remember, you know, but they didn't actually do anything till right towards the end, you know? They just they knew what was going on.
Speaker 1:They told her nice things, but they didn't they didn't change anything. That's just my thinking. They are lovely people. Lovely people on the outside. Everybody sees them as lovely people on the outside.
Speaker 1:They're lovely to hear, but did they actually do anything to change the circumstances? And I will leave on that note because Mike dropped.
Speaker 3:So to close this out, what do you take from the movie that you need to apply for your system? And if part of what does not distress them or part of what heals is that they finally make actual changes, what changes do you need to be making?
Speaker 1:I can state what I think needs to happen. You know, I would love my system to be able to communicate with each other and not blame anyone, you know? There's still so much blame. And, you know, those three little kids are part of the community. They were always just on the outside, but nobody kind of really knew what was going on with them.
Speaker 1:It's like some of my littles, they're not actually in that house. But until they get into the house and everybody's working together, nothing can be changed yet.
Speaker 10:Say, like, teamwork, communication, and support. Guess sort of keeping the communication channels open and keeping on top of everyone's needs and not just sort of getting taken on too many outside tasks and forgetting about my own needs. And that I cannot help others if I don't take care of my own needs first.
Speaker 6:I was just gonna say I'm being proud of the things that you do sometimes, e.
Speaker 5:G, the cactus. It's a cactus. Good job, Adam. We do not do that. We can try.
Speaker 3:I think for us it's about just even acknowledging that there's a house and that I can't just hide in the bushes. I can't keep not going in the house and not participating in the village. Like the house is going to fall down and it's impacting the village. The cracks went through the main street of the village by the end And I think that's where I'm at and where we've been for a while of, and I know we've had all these sort of disregulating disruptions to therapy and everything, but I feel like if things are going to get better, then, like they said, I have to do something, I have to make changes, and I have to acknowledge that the house is there, Which seems terrifying especially when you see it falling down, like who wants a house that's falling down, that doesn't help. It's hard to believe that it can be different, like when you see a house falling down literally in front of you, it's hard to believe, oh this is going to be magical if we just work together.
Speaker 3:Instead it just feels like a disaster and exhausting and humiliating and all of those things. But if working together or, dare I say, inviting them in, how do I, how do I, instead of being afraid of the house, how do I be like the house that was so eager and welcoming? I don't know, that's horrifying to me I think, but there's something about it that finally made things safe for everybody. The village and the house and the people in the house and around the house, the animals, everything was better than. And that ending view with the mosaic on the floor is just such a simple symbol and it made me think even like of our Mandala Mondays and that there's this expression that there is somehow, even though I have all these anxieties and all this avoidance, there is something in me that is eager and welcoming and ready to heal.
Speaker 3:And how do I trust that instead of just worrying about what needs repair? Because if it's the welcoming and the inviting and the entering that is what repairs it, then the mess is irrelevant. But it's hard to remember that in the moment. And so I think there's something for us to do there, like what they said about compassion and embodiment. And maybe sometimes it's simple things, like when the village came in to fix everything, they all were bringing different tools and resources and things, and so maybe it really is the small and simple things.
Speaker 3:Maybe it really is nourishing myself three times a day. Maybe it really is sleeping through the night. Maybe it really is going for a walk every day, you know, and so just trying to trust that and see what happens, I guess. Like how much worse could things get really? I don't want to ask the universe that question.
Speaker 3:But really, really just what would happen if I trusted the process? What if instead of being afraid I sang fancy songs and did a little dance number? I know. It's just a lot to think about. It's a lot to think about.
Speaker 3:And how wild is it that in the vision that Bruno had this whole time that it was a hug that healed things. Like to me that's so symbolic, mortifying, it's horrifying, it's so scary, except also there's something tender about it, and there's something that reminds me of the community like they were sharing earlier, and there's something special in that of we're going to be okay if we're together and we're keeping ourselves safe and each other safe, and look at how much healing and progress we've all made. You guys, it's only been six months. Six months since we started the community, and I have done more, at least for me, I've done more healing work in the last six months than the last two and a half years. And I know that that's a part of it.
Speaker 3:And so how, like even though it's scary, like I'm thinking about our first community when it was so scary and it was so hard for any of us to talk and we were focused on even talking about the community just to like even get ourselves going and be introduced to the process and getting to know each other and now it's not a thing. Like I'm like, I'm trying to come to groups. I'm trying to get kids taken care of and throw a movie together when I can at bedtime. And now it's not such a big deal, right? And so how much easier would things be inside if I just dared to try it?
Speaker 3:If I just let it be instead of fighting it so hard? And how quickly would things heal if I stopped causing the cracks? It's something. I don't know. It's something.
Speaker 3:But I thank you for joining us tonight. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad to see your faces and I am glad you say good night in peace after stirring up so much. That was a lot. So peace to you and thank you for this adventure and I am so grateful truly.
Speaker 3:There are not words. There are not words. Just thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing. One of the ways we practice this is in community together. The link for the community is in the show notes.
Speaker 2:We look forward to seeing you there while we practice caring for ourselves, caring for our family, and participating with those who also care for community. And remember, I'm just a human, not a therapist for the community, and not there for dating, and not there to be shiny happy. Less shiny, actually. I'm there to heal too. Being human together.
Speaker 2:So, Sometimes, we'll see you there.