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Forged: A timeless way of living. A podcast about forging lives of discipline, delight, craft, and calling that carry enduring wisdom into modern life.
speaker-0 (00:00)
Hey folks, this is Brian Williams, host of Forged Timeless Ways of Living, a podcast of the Humanitas Institute about forging well-lived ordinary lives through discipline, delight, craft, and calling. Today my guest is the one and only Doug Woolery. Besides being a husband, father, and grandfather, Doug was an army ranger who served in Iraq alongside the Kurds, and he is a farmer who breeds livestock and tends to its fields.
He's a very successful high school girl soccer coach and he's a junior high teacher at the first classical Christian school in America called Care Parivelle Latin School in Topeka, Kansas. I'm interested in talking to Doug about these distinct vocations, what brings coherence to his life and where he finds contentment. So welcome to Forge, Doug.
speaker-1 (00:51)
Thank you, Brian. Good to be here.
speaker-0 (00:52)
Really great to have you here. So if I remember right, you grew up in Minnesota, ⁓ paddling the lakes around Minnesota, something I think you've done as an adult as well. So how do you go from Minnesota to finding yourself as an army ranger in Iraq?
speaker-1 (01:09)
Well, that was a long ⁓ sort of crazy journey. I began with a desire to join a pretty elite unit out of Iowa that jumped out of airplanes. And I really wanted to do that. And I was already in the National Guard in Minnesota, but I was working as a supply person and I hated the job because it was really boring. But because of a hearing problem, I was sort of pigeonholed into a
a certain kind of job. So I found out about this unit and ⁓ I looked into it. I drove down to Waterloo, Iowa and I interviewed with the commander and I was accepted. I was going to transfer in and then the Gulf War broke out and so that got put on hold.
speaker-0 (01:40)
Okay.
Okay, what year was this? Is this 91? 91.
speaker-1 (01:59)
So I was in college in southwestern Minnesota, drove down there, interviewed, was all fired up to transfer into the unit. And then they put a freeze on interstate transfers, so I couldn't go.
speaker-0 (02:13)
Okay, so this unit is in, I mean, is it uniquely out of Iowa, this kind of paratrooper thing?
speaker-1 (02:19)
So
it's called a long range surveillance unit. It's a detachment, so it's very small. I mean, the unit once I got into it was only 58 guys.
speaker-0 (02:28)
Wow. Okay. So what attracted you about it? Because I'm interested to know what you were looking for when you joined the military and whether you found it there, but why this unit in particular?
speaker-1 (02:39)
Well, I always had an interest in doing some of the things that I'd always seen in the military, like special forces or Ranger school or jumping out of airplanes or so the unit I was in wasn't designed for that. So I did everything I could do. I got my air assault badge. So I was repelling out of helicopters. Yeah. But that was really it. There was no other opportunity. So joining that unit would have given me the opportunity to maybe try Ranger school and do airborne school.
And so once the Gulf War got over, I graduated from college and I had an opportunity to go to Guatemala on an army task force to do humanitarian aid out in the country of Guatemala. And that was a six month task force. So during that time, and I told you this was a convoluted story. During that time,
I was there for six months and two weeks before I got ready to redeploy back to the States, I had to get an emergency root canal done. And I think you've heard this story. It's how I met my wife. So I pedaled my bike to the only dentist that the embassy allowed us to go to. And I went in and checked into the dentist office and ⁓ sat down and there was this beautiful woman across from the waiting room ⁓ who knew perfect English and asked me if it was a real tattoo on my
speaker-0 (04:00)
Hahaha!
speaker-1 (04:02)
And
I quickly moved. I quickly moved closer to her to continue the conversation. And so after about 15 minutes, they called me for my root canal. But long story short, I meet her. The dentist speaks perfect English, says, what do do for a living? I said, well, I'm here with the army, but I just graduated from college as a teacher. So he said, well, you should work at the American school. So he hooks me up with an interview. I fill out the application. Tatiana, my now wife, takes me to the interview. They offer me a job.
I redeploy with my unit, drive back to Guatemala and spend a year and a half teaching at the American school in Guatemala. Okay. After that time, then I go back, get into that unit in Iowa and the
speaker-0 (04:39)
Okay.
you do. Okay, this is convoluted. Yeah. Okay. So you
speaker-1 (04:49)
A
happens between the Gulf War and that unit joined. It moved from Waterloo to Johnston, Iowa, just out of Des Moines. And so it was in a new location, new commander. So I did that whole process again, got into the unit. And then through that, I was able to go to Ranger school and airborne school and all.
speaker-0 (05:10)
And all of that was after you were married then?
speaker-1 (05:13)
You're correct. Yeah. So we got married in 97. And that's when I got into the unit and Sam was born in 2000. But I went to Ranger School while Tatiana was pregnant. I left. I left for three months and she was ⁓ pregnant with our first son, Sam. I was I was pretty much gone. I got back for the birth, but.
speaker-0 (05:28)
Wow.
Okay, because I was trying to think about this story in my head and put the timeline together and I kind of assumed all that happened before you were married and had kids. So you deploy to Iraq with the Rangers when you've got a family at home.
speaker-1 (05:52)
Yeah, both my kids were under four. Hannah hadn't yet turned three years old. So I mean, didn't go to Ranger school until I was 33.
speaker-0 (06:05)
That's kind of old. They take old guys into ranger school at that age.
speaker-1 (06:09)
Well, they did call me Grandpa.
speaker-0 (06:12)
Yeah, I bet. Okay, so what were you looking for in the military? mean, was it adventure? Was it excitement?
speaker-1 (06:21)
Well, there was some of that. know, after my time in Guatemala, I really enjoyed that whole experience. I mean, being in a different culture, doing some really great work, the humanitarian aid work that we were doing down there was fantastic. So I don't know, it just, I had always had a passion for doing things that were sort of exciting and caused an adrenaline rush. And so, you know, I was drawn to jumping out of planes and I liked that sort of stuff.
This was the only unit in the five state area that allowed me to do those kinds of things. There are no National Guard units, at least at that time in the late 90s, there were no National Guard units around that did it other than I think Nebraska had one and Illinois had one. There were Special Forces Guard units out of Florida and things.
speaker-0 (07:07)
Okay.
Well, want to eventually I want to ask you, of course, how you end up being a junior high teacher, because, you know, I was thinking guys like you and me, I love to watch, you know, action adventure movies of soldiers overseas, spy stuff, jumping out of plants. I've probably never watched a movie about a junior high teacher. ⁓ And so for somebody who loves excitement and adventure, I mean, that's it's quite a shift from, you know, military to farm life and junior high teaching.
speaker-1 (07:41)
Well, you know, when I went to Iraq, I was an elementary teacher. I was an elementary teacher before I became a junior high teacher. I taught elementary school for 16 years.
speaker-0 (07:50)
⁓ is that right? Okay, well you're an anomaly because I was looking at stats and I mean, stats I just saw yesterday were that 90 % of grade school teachers at least are women and like 70 % of junior high teachers are women. I I never had a male teacher ⁓ in grade school and I think I had three in junior high. had a science teacher.
a fantastic math teacher. Then I had the classic like, you know, high school coach who taught history in junior high. But I had, yeah, I had all women. You must have been kind of an anomaly. mean, I was a soldier teaching grade school.
speaker-1 (08:32)
Yeah, I was. And I think it's still like that. I grew up though, Minneapolis, of, you know, Northeast Minneapolis, just out of downtown. I had a fifth grade male teacher and a sixth grade male teacher. And both of those men were very impactful in my development.
speaker-0 (08:51)
Yeah, okay, so unpack that for me. In what way? Because I am interested kind of sociologically, like ⁓ what's the impact on young boys in particular, maybe girls too, but on boys who never have a male teacher. I mean, and I would say I never had a male teacher who taught me English, taught me literature, taught me how to read books. I mean, all through college, grad school. So what was the impact of these male teachers you had as a kid?
speaker-1 (09:19)
Great question. I think I was one of those ⁓ boys who had a lot of energy and oftentimes directed in ways that were not productive to a classroom environment. So I needed a firm hand of guidance to keep me in line. And both of those men did that. I thought they did it well because they didn't just discipline. You could genuinely tell that they cared about me as a person. And so I think I was more
I was more prone to listen to what they had to say and follow fall in line when they gave me a directive. But they also allowed me to, you know, be be a kid. And I think that was really important. They didn't try to stifle me, you know, so there was plenty of time to get outside as a class and do outdoor activities where I could excel at physical exercise. And they praised that. So I think they balanced both the academics and
allowing me to just be a boy.
speaker-0 (10:20)
Yeah, yeah, I'm reading a book right now by an English sociologist called of I think it's called of Boys and Men. And he also has some really interesting studies that he's done on the performance of boys in schools, especially with respect to reading and love of story and literature, that kind of stuff, when they have a male teacher who kind of models a man reading a book. And I was just I just recorded a podcast here recently with Shiloh Brooks, who's the president of the George Bush
presidential center and he's got a great podcast called Old School. And he said, man, as a kid into junior high, I never saw a guy read a book. He said, I didn't know that's what guys did. And so, so mean, I think, yeah, it's got to be powerful to have a male teacher like you as a, as a grade school teacher. Well,
speaker-1 (11:01)
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I hope so. feel like I'm doing what God called me to do because I've never gone to work a single day of my 30 years of teaching where I didn't look forward to going to work.
speaker-0 (11:22)
Is that right? Okay. So what is it? I mean, what is it that you love?
speaker-1 (11:27)
I mean, you're teacher. Yeah. I love the newness of every day. mean, especially working with young kids, because you never know what you're going to get. separate from the curriculum and the material, the interactions, what kids are going to say, how they're going to respond to a lesson, ⁓ the teachable moments that you have.
because of somebody being vulnerable and telling you they don't understand something. I don't know. I just, I love what I do.
speaker-0 (12:01)
Yeah, okay, so, but make this connection for me. you, so, I mean, I guess you, it's not that you shifted from I'm an army man, I'm an army soldier, I'm gonna have a career in the military to then finding yourself teaching. Correct. You kind of, you pursued both of these from the beginning, it sounds like.
speaker-1 (12:19)
That's right. So I graduated from Ranger school in 1999. In 2000, I moved to Guatemala with my family, moved back to Guatemala, where we were going to raise our kids. Every summer I would fly back to Iowa and get into the unit. I would go do the two weeks annual training somewhere, you know, whether it was Wyoming. So I trained with them and then I'd get back into the inactive ready reserve, go back to Guatemala and fall back into my teaching role. So I did that.
all the way up until they activated me to go to Iraq. They just called me one day. I was in my classroom, called me on my cell phone and said, we need you here by Saturday. And that was it. That was on a Monday, December 1st, I gave my notice, ⁓ you know, knowing that I was gonna be gone for the rest of the school year. It's pretty tough to make subplans for that, but I did the best I could to kind of lay out the map for moving forward. Luckily I had a great.
speaker-0 (12:58)
Is that right?
speaker-1 (13:14)
a team teacher that could also guide whoever took my place. And then I spent a day with my family and I was on a plane to Iowa and the next 18 months was.
speaker-0 (13:26)
Iraq. Yeah. Okay. but early on was what was that vocational discernment like? I mean, because, you know, a lot of guys, you know, 18, I've got an 18 year old son. He's trying to figure out what do I want to do in life? I teach college university students who they graduate. They're like, what do I want to do in life? And so many of them are trying to think, okay, what's my vocation? And I think, you know, guys, you know, your age and my age too are still sometimes going, what do I want to do with my life or?
You know, am I stuck in what I'm doing? So what was that like? I mean, I'm just I'm just curious. Did you have much vocational struggle or was it like, you know, between teaching and military or were those just two obvious options for 18 year old Doug Woolery?
speaker-1 (14:08)
No. So I was ⁓ I was not at all in the mindset of I want to go to college and be a teacher. OK, I grew up in a pretty rough neighborhood and ran with a pretty rough crowd. I think my life probably was headed in a direction that probably wouldn't have been very productive. And if not, if not for the grace of God and the military, I
I think things would have turned out differently, but I got back from, I joined the army in 87. I got back from all my training and knew I wanted to do something. I'd been working for the federal reserve bank in Minneapolis for three years. And so I, I enrolled in community college and just, was, you know, 21. I, I needed to get my feet back in the water of, of education. So I enrolled in a community college, did that for a year. Then I transferred to a four year university.
to do pre-law. I wanted to be a lawyer. Yeah. Yeah, so I wanted to be a lawyer. And ⁓ I also wrestled. I wrestled for the university. Got into that. At some point in that process, I realized I didn't want to be pre-law. So I switched over to secondary education, speech communications, and ⁓ English Lit. And through that process, I had to do a two-week observation in an elementary school.
speaker-0 (15:09)
Okay, there's another twist to the story here.
Okay.
speaker-1 (15:35)
and I had already done my high school observation in a school in Minneapolis. And I did that elementary school observation and I absolutely fell in love with it. So I went back to school for another year to become an elementary teacher because I loved the, you know, after doing a high school in Minneapolis and then going into a rural elementary school, the joy and the love of learning that those kids,
exuded just it it made me think twice about what I was doing. I just felt more rewarding than that short two week time period. So I went back and became an elementary teacher. And that's what I did. That's what I went to Guatemala for. That was my first teaching job in Guatemala. Yeah. After the army, that six month stint with the army, my first job was at an international school in Guatemala, actually the American School of Guatemala. And I did that for a year and a half.
speaker-0 (16:20)
In Guatemala.
Okay, so I'm gonna come back to this question several times with you, I think. What's the similarity between, you know, military ranger school jumping on airplanes and like teaching grade school? Or is it simply, these are just two aspects of Doug Woolery and I love them both.
speaker-1 (16:47)
It's probably more that. mean, I think I think I can handle junior high kids, especially junior high boys, maybe because because of my military training. ⁓ So I think there's a certain part of my life experiences that that make that area of education. You know, when I was an elementary teacher, you know, it just it.
speaker-0 (16:50)
Okay.
Yeah.
speaker-1 (17:13)
It's pretty tough to have a hard day in elementary school because kids are just so cute and they still love you and they think that you have something to teach them and they're excited to be there and they listen and when you say don't, they say okay. Junior high is different than that. So I don't know, think I have a couple different aspects to that.
speaker-0 (17:18)
No.
Yes, it is.
speaker-1 (17:41)
I do a lot of things in my life that don't necessarily connect to each other, but I think the things I do in those areas have a spillover effect into the other parts of my life.
speaker-0 (17:51)
Yeah, okay, so talk to me about that. I think that's the way it probably is for a lot of us. What brings coherence and integration is just you, the person, doing these multiple kinds of things. But you bring your whole self into each of these kinds of roles. I think so. what I mean? So when you come into farming, you come in as a guy with a background in military and education. And when you're in education, you come in as a guy with a background in military and now farming. So for you, what's the spillover?
Do you think between like military and school?
speaker-1 (18:24)
Well, I mean, I like structure. I like routine. I think kids benefit from a well-structured, well-disciplined classroom, and I definitely bring those to my classroom. Students know that when I'm up in front of the room and I'm teaching and we're having fun, it's still a no-nonsense ⁓ kind of atmosphere. So I put up with lot of shenanigans. ⁓
And my, especially my young men, they know that. But yet, I know how to have a good time and use humor. Humor is a big part of my teaching. ⁓ So they know that I'm a, think compassion is something that, you know, when I was in the military, ⁓ I was able to develop a sense of compassion for people that were in completely different situations in their life than I was. Whether it was, ⁓
out in the remote areas of Guatemala and seeing some of the ⁓ just economically depressed conditions that people were living in or being in Iraq and being around people that were still living very much in a way that they probably did hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
speaker-0 (19:38)
Let me stop you for just a second, because compassion is not a character trait or a virtue that most people would associate with the military, right? We're not thinking, most of us would not think, yeah, I'm gonna send my kid to the military and he's gonna come out with a strong sense of compassion.
speaker-1 (19:55)
Yeah, interesting. And I don't know, you know, I can only speak for myself, but I was in the military. mean, I retired in 24 after 20 years. Yeah. I met a lot of people that were compassionate. But also passionate, and these were some of the toughest men ⁓ that I had ever been around.
speaker-0 (19:59)
Sure.
Yeah, is that right?
And what is that? Is that working with vulnerable populations or people who are in vulnerable, whether that's physically, economically, materially? mean, is that what draws out that compassion, do you think?
speaker-1 (20:37)
I think adversity also develops a sense of humility in an individual. when you go through really tough training, if your mind is in the right spot, it breaks you down pretty hard. But if you realize that it's not all about you and you lean on the guy next to you for strength and you're supporting one another and you find those bonds with like-minded individuals,
speaker-0 (20:52)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (21:07)
That tends to be infectious and I think it breeds a sort of camaraderie and friendship that I think it goes beyond social economics. It goes beyond race or gender even. My experience has been mostly with ⁓ males in the Army. My unit didn't have any females in it. So that bonding takes on a unique
Masculine aspect to it and it's all it's not all machismo, you know, you see guys that that that are broken and and yeah, you know hard things happen and and you see men who come together to support one another I think that can only If your mind's in the right place only breed compassion in you
speaker-0 (21:54)
Yeah, compassion for one another. But you were also mentioning compassion for the people you were working with. Am I right? You were with the Kurds in Northern Iraq. Am I right about that?
speaker-1 (22:05)
And you know that that was a people group that had been absolutely persecuted by a vicious dictator Saddam Hussein.
speaker-0 (22:12)
Well, and a people whose own kind of region had been ⁓ divided up after World War II. And so the Kurds ⁓ had occupied a region, but then they all of sudden after World War II, I think if I'm right, they were split up into three or four different countries and found themselves essentially homeless.
speaker-1 (22:30)
Right, and I don't know how you work in an environment like that and see, interact with those people and not feel compassion. Your heart would be pretty hard if you didn't.
speaker-0 (22:40)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it does raise a question for me how we cultivate something like that in young men now, right? How do you cultivate or give them the opportunity to to encounter those kind of groups or those kind of moments where that draws out their compassion, you know, without going into the military? Yeah.
speaker-1 (23:03)
I mean, I think that's one of the beauties of being a teacher is you have an opportunity to speak into the hearts of your students and whether that's through the way you model your behavior and the way you act and how you handle situations. And if they see me being a person of justice, but also fairness and, you know, I do things that show them, model for them what it means to be a fair and a kind person, but also a firm person.
And I think students pay attention to what the adults in their lives are doing. And when they see you model that, and they know that you have their back, and so when you speak to them, I mean, if a kid knows that I truly care about them, and I love them, I can say some really, really hard things.
speaker-0 (23:52)
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. So what is it you see yourself doing as a teacher? mean, do you have a kind of metaphor in mind? Like I'm guide, I'm, you know, master to apprentices, I'm coach, I'm, mean, is there a kind of dominant metaphor in your head? you drill sergeant? Drill sergeant?
speaker-1 (24:14)
Yeah, so dominant, no, but lots of metaphors. mean, OK, when I was working in public school, yeah, I was sometimes a police officer. I was a referee. I was a coach. I was a parent. Yeah, yeah, especially a parent. You know, they had a lot of absent parents there. So I was sort of a surrogate parent who who was offering, you know, words of encouragement and compassion to a child that probably wasn't getting a lot of that somewhere else in a classical school like I teach in right now.
It's a little different than that. I mean, I like to think of myself as I don't necessarily think I'm a master educator, but I think I'm really good at what I do and I love what I do. So I think if I can help grow that passion in my students, inspiring them a love of learning, a desire to be a lifelong learner, I guess I'm mentoring them and their apprentices. that's good.
I'm a guide and I'm leading them on a climb up a mountain that, you know, we're about a fourth of the way up by the time they get to me. And ⁓ I'm trying to prepare them for the rest of the climb, whether it's into rhetoric, rhetoric school or, into life or into college or secondary ed, whatever, whatever's in their boat. But, know, I don't know, lots of different metaphors, I think.
speaker-0 (25:19)
Yeah, that's
Yeah, and I sometimes, I've been ruminating on this one of kind of, I mean, I don't like the word master apprentice, but I think apprenticing is not a bad metaphor for what we're trying to do. Because sometimes as teachers, you can think, oh, what I'm doing is I'm helping you pass the next test. I'm helping you learn a body of information. I'm helping you get into the college of your choice or your parents' choice or whatever it happens to be. And we kind of forget, oh, actually I'm apprenticing you how to live well.
You know, I might be, your parents are doing that too, hopefully, but what I'm doing is I'm trying to apprentice you, you know, so that you live well as a 28 year old and a 48 year old and a 68 year old. And that changes, I think, don't you? The way we approach our students in our classrooms, if I think, I'm not just like drilling you on science facts. I'm actually trying to show you a way of living.
speaker-1 (26:24)
Right, and I think ⁓ it does mirror society. mean, a classroom is a microcosm of what life is gonna be like. So you're gonna have disappointing days. A student's gonna have real disappointment, especially if they're a high-level achiever and they get a poor grade on the assignment and you have to come alongside them and help them realize that they're bigger than a grade and that, you know, learn from mistakes, make adjustments, do things differently if you need to, but.
Moving forward, just continue to work hard and find the joy in what you're doing. I think setting goals for young kids is really important. I think whether it's academic goals or just personal goals, but ultimately I think we want all of our students, I know I do for my own children, is just to be good, well-adjusted individuals when they get older and find what it is in life that they're designed to do.
and hopefully they find joy in it because I know that that's not always possible.
speaker-0 (27:27)
Yeah, okay. So you're both parent and teacher. So how do you work with parents? I mean, because as a teacher, sometimes you think, okay, I have a culture here I've created at a school and we're trying to form our students, but they're also at home being formed in certain ways and they're out in the world being formed in certain ways. I mean, I kind of want to ask something like, what do you wish...
What do wish parents knew about teachers or how do you see that relationship, that dynamic between parents and teachers?
speaker-1 (28:01)
Well,
to me, it changes every year. I think there's a certain level of uniqueness to every class. And some years you have parents that are lockstep with what we're trying to accomplish in the classroom. have 100 % support from them. Other years, it's as though there was something in the water that year. And they're just, they're not, you don't feel that.
that support from home that you normally would expect. I don't know, I think, I love working with parents, honestly. And I typically ⁓ have no problems reaching out to them or communicating with them, even in hard situations where, you know, maybe a student has done something. What I expect is for a parent to be in a healthy, receptive tone to anything I have to say to them. And I reciprocate that.
if they have a concern or a question, I expect the same thing from them. So that's what I always expect is just a certain level of humanity in my interactions with parents. And I've been blessed to have really good parents.
speaker-0 (29:12)
So let me ask this question. How can parents best help their kids teachers? You know, and I mean, I might ask, you know, might follow up with like, how can the dads best help their kids teachers? Because I know we've got a lot of parents listening to this podcast and a lot of dads listening to this podcast, maybe. So what is it that a teacher needs from parents, do you think, from your perspective? Is it that open receptivity?
speaker-1 (29:37)
I think so, but I also think it's beneficial for a parent to be well informed on what's going on in their kid's classroom. mean, have interest, genuine interest in what your kids are learning. I'd like to think that we're all gathered around the dinner table at night having conversations about how our day went and ask your kid what's going on in school. Hopefully you're getting some sort of communication from school so you have a general idea of what your kid's working on this month.
I think both parents, the most successful students that I see are the ones who have the most interested parents.
speaker-0 (30:15)
Is that right? When you say most interested, I mean, what do mean by that? Most interested?
speaker-1 (30:19)
So interactions with a teacher outside of the academic setting. So let's see, I run into a parent at a sporting event and we're having a casual conversation on the sideline and the parent is aware of what's going on in the classroom and they make a comment about what we talked about in logic and what their kid had said or a poem that we're memorizing or they're saying, hey, I'm reading this chapter in logic along with my kid because I find it fascinating or.
You know, they, they're, my child read their essay to me last night and I gave him some feedback. ⁓ and I have no idea what they were saying, but, you know.
speaker-0 (30:58)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think one of the worst questions I always tell parents, do not ask your kids how their grades are. Because I think that's one of the worst questions you could ask. Not only is it boring, it tells kids that we care about the things we actually don't care about. Because what we actually care about, right, is their education, their formation, those kinds of things. So do you encourage parents, I mean, do parents read stories along with their kids? what do you recommend? I mean, do you meet with parents at the beginning of the school and say, hey,
You should buy copies of all your kids books we're gonna read and read them along with
speaker-1 (31:30)
Well,
you know, it's interesting, ⁓ as you know, what you teach at a classical Christian school can oftentimes change from year to year. So I haven't for the last couple of years taught Bible. I mean, I did for 10 years. ⁓ I'm no longer teaching history and literature. I'm just doing writing for seventh and eighth grade, and I'm doing logic for seventh grade. So my wheelhouse is a little bit different. But when I did ⁓ teach literature,
I mean, I loved it. I was always singing praises for the yearling or, you and the conversations we would have in the class about the books we were reading would would definitely make their way back home. And I'd hear about that from parents. But absolutely read what your kids are reading. I mean, our summer read is the bronze bow. And a lot of parents read that with their kids. Yeah. I just think it's fantastic.
speaker-0 (32:05)
Okay.
I think it's such a great practice. I mean, it's even with my university students, when my university students come for their freshman year, we gather one night and then I take my freshmen to the Adirondacks, the high peaks for a week of hiking and camping and canoeing and stuff like that. But I always meet with the parents when the kids are together and somebody always asks, how can we support our kids? And I say, one, cut the apron strings and let them be university students.
But I say, buy a copy of every book I'm gonna read with them in my class and read it at the same time. So then man, when they come home at Thanksgiving or they have a call with you, ask them what they thought of book 12 of the Odyssey. know, ask, cause you know, and parents were like, I've never thought about doing that. But man, I mean, I think it's a great practice for teachers to, or for parents to do.
speaker-1 (33:15)
And
so, mean, I agree 100%. And what makes me sort of cringe is when I'll hear a parent say maybe at parent conferences that, yeah, I took a look at that logic book and I just said, yeah, you're on your own. I can't figure anything out. If you have a question, ask Mr. Willow, your older sibling.
speaker-0 (33:35)
Yeah, or parents who sometimes will say, I don't know what this is about, or they act like it's beyond them. And I kind of think, ah, that's not always helpful because you're communicating to your student, your child that this doesn't really matter. I mean, I love those parents who are like, I don't understand this, but I think this must be important. And so I want to understand this, or I see the importance of it because parents communicate to kids. I mean, we know this, right?
what matters in school and they can they can easily undermine what a teacher is trying to do by acting like something's inconsequential.
speaker-1 (34:11)
And that's why I think modeling that genuine interest in the learning that's taking place also shows students that, my parents are lifelong learners and they have a love of
speaker-0 (34:21)
Yeah. How do you do that, Doug? So I often work with teachers and I tell them that teachers need to be the kind of people they want their students to become. Right? So when I talk about kind of holistic integrated formation of students, teachers are on board with me and I talk about different areas of formation. But then I turn it around and say, you know, this has got to start with you. How are you pursuing your own formation?
intellectually, morally, aesthetically, spiritually, practically, physically, socially, those kinds of things. so what's your outside of school kind of intellectual life look like? I mean, are you model? How do you model that for your students?
speaker-1 (35:01)
I, my students know that I'm always looking for ⁓ unique ways to make the lessons that I teach more pal, I don't know, more pleasing, more entertaining, more down to their level. We just did, I we just did, ⁓ we did a lesson and I was, I was seeking out ways to try to make it more interesting to them. And so I,
Yeah, it was in writing and and and we were trying we were studying paradox and they just weren't getting it. And so I was I was tying it in with the Odyssey and this is eighth graders, you know, and I would. Yep. I wrote up all these paradoxical statements and was really tying it to the Odyssey. And how how can a man who was so wise and such a great warrior, how in heaven's name could it take him 20 years to get back home? So I.
I think that helps them know that I genuinely seek out ways for them to understand the material I'm trying to teach them. you know, I got a lot of stuff going on. I'm attempting to train myself on how to build a barn out of stone. So I've been doing a lot of my own educating. Students don't have any idea. They hear me talk about, they know I take down barns and I'm done taking down barns. Now I want to build one. So I'm reading some old textbooks on how to build stone buildings.
And really?
speaker-0 (36:32)
Absolutely. Okay, so I love this because I also tell teachers that, hey, like it or not, you are part of the curriculum that your students are being taken through. Like just who you are and as you share with them parts of your life. Like my guys know that I love mountaineering and running and stuff like that. And I collect art. None of that comes into my classroom. But they know that's this kind of stuff I do. And it kind of I mean, it's part of that apprenticing model like
They know that this is possible for a human being to do these other kinds of things. And so I love that they know that Mr. Woolery also takes down barns, has a farm and is now building a stone barn.
speaker-1 (37:16)
As you know, I live on a small farm and I put up a couple thousand small square bales of hay every summer. My workers are students.
speaker-0 (37:26)
tell me it's an internship and you get free labor out of your junior high students. Hey, mean, what could be better for a junior high boy than like baling hay with his teacher all summer? That sounds awesome.
speaker-1 (37:36)
It used to be that way where parents would actually pay me to send their kids to my farm.
speaker-0 (37:42)
It was awesome. Is that right? What a that's a scam. Yeah
speaker-1 (37:46)
So what I found is that those parents that wanted to pay me to take their kids, it was more of a glorified babysitting where their kid was going to get worked really, really hard. But oftentimes, wasn't getting, let's just say I wasn't getting the production on their end. So I started paying those students and it's awesome. mean, those are my summer workers. I feel like
speaker-0 (38:09)
Legitimately, you have students working for you on the farm.
speaker-1 (38:12)
Absolutely, males and females. I I've had four girls that come out, mostly soccer players that are interested in making a little extra money, but they wanna work hard, they wanna spend some time on the farm. And it's just a great opportunity to mentor young people on what it is to work hard, because I don't think we see a lot of that in today's society. So when the kids come out to my farm to work in June,
when it's hotter than blazes outside in Kansas. And I tell them, bring leather gloves, ⁓ wear long pants and bring lots of water. ⁓ And I'll make you dinner when we're done, but you're gonna work your tail off. And they do. And the ones that...
speaker-0 (38:55)
What do they get from that do you think? Because I mean, most so many of our students now more than ever live in a virtual world, know, way more than you and I did growing up, right? I mean, I grew up outside on my bike in the woods, you know, we didn't usually have a TV, we didn't have gaming systems. But now, man, so many students live in a kind of totally virtual world, or at least, you know, largely virtual.
speaker-1 (39:19)
I
think what kids get out of it is a satisfaction of a good hard day's work. at the end of it, when we're sitting around, you know, having a burger on the deck and we're talking about the day, I hear nothing but positive things about how that experience was for them. I mean, I've had kids who I had one boy last year, high schooler who fell off the wagon, loading a bale and leaned over on the ground and just sort of put his hands on his knees and
I could tell by the look in his face that he was done. Absolutely done. And he got back on the wagon and I encouraged him. Another young man came along shortly after that and got on the wagon and helped him and it completely revived him. And so I think he thrived off, cause he was alone on that wagon until that other young man came in and worked beside him. And he told me at the end of the day, as we were having a burger, he said,
speaker-0 (40:05)
well.
speaker-1 (40:16)
That was quite possibly the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. ⁓ But he finished the day.
speaker-0 (40:21)
it and he did it yeah and living in the physical world in your body right where you can't just unplug it you can't walk away you can't be you can't be superman or superhero in the video game it's like no you learned human finitude you learn what how to come up against the really real which is a big heavy hail of you know bail of
speaker-1 (40:41)
And you learn that doing hard things isn't a one and done. You sometimes have to do something hard for several hours in a row. And even when your mind is saying, I'd rather be inside playing video games, when they look up on that tractor, I'm not they see me and I'm all supportive, but I'm pretty much holding them accountable for what they committed to do. Yeah.
speaker-0 (41:07)
No, that's great. We have a similar moment when I take my students up to the high peaks of the Adirondacks. I lead them on a 12 hour hike up the highest peak in New York state called Mount Marcy. And it's not easy. And you know, we have stragglers, but we get everybody up to the top and it's painful. But then when we get down, mean, students are beat, you know, I mean, they're less, you know, they're a third my age, but they're not.
training for this kind of thing. And so many of them get down. But then we look back at the peak and I'm like, guys, look at that peak. Look how far away it is. We were up there just a few hours ago and there's this strong sense of satisfaction. The strong like exhausted contentment that you you know really well after a long day, you know, on the farm, you're like, I'm beat and spent, but so content. And it's hard to get that any other way.
speaker-1 (42:02)
Right, and I love that about farming. I don't get that in teaching. It's different muscles that I'm using when I do both of things, but equally I find joy in both.
speaker-0 (42:14)
Now, do you find, this is one reason I loved coaching and one reason I love sitting around the campfire with my students, ⁓ canoeing and stuff like that, because it's a different relationship with them that does feed into the classroom. Because my students are sitting in my classroom with me, but they've also seen me six days into a camping trip, unshowered, grimy with like, you
fire soot all over my hands and stuff like that, right? So it's not just, or we knew when I was coaching soccer, that relationship you have on the pitch is that coach-player relationship is very different from teacher-student relationship. But those seem to inform one another. I assume that's a similar experience for you probably.
speaker-1 (43:01)
I
think so. I I probably have it in reverse. I build the relationship in the classroom as their teacher first. They know that I coach soccer at the varsity level. So those people that are going to come and play soccer for me already had me as their teacher. So my relationship with them is teacher, student.
speaker-0 (43:19)
have already had you as students.
speaker-1 (43:27)
it's so much easier to transition into teacher coach because it's a different aspect of me and I get to see a different side of them. And so that relationship, I think that was already strong, hopefully, when we began the season becomes something different. ⁓ I believe it becomes stronger, but it morphs into an even better relationship because what you do on the pitch and at practice is a different kind of labor.
speaker-0 (43:56)
It
is a different kind of labor and it's a different relationship with them. I mean, let me just say I've never had a student cry in class, but I've certainly had female soccer students cry on the preseason.
speaker-1 (44:08)
That was our first year together, you and I, remember that? I still remember the time the girl, we were doing Indian runs around the field and she literally just sat down and started
speaker-0 (44:11)
Yeah, I know.
Crying, yeah, and I've never. I've never physically carried a student out of class, but I have physically carried players off the pitch before when they were injured and you know, and I and I think that's part of it's why I love. You and what you're doing is like you're bringing your whole self to each of those areas and students know that you're not that you exist outside of the classroom as a whole person. And so that's where that kind of.
apprentice model comes in. Look at me. I'm an integrated, holistic, complex person. And I'm trying to give you a model for how to how
speaker-1 (44:55)
I mean, I think the beauty of teaching and coaching at the same school is I've been doing this long enough to where, you know, siblings have told their younger siblings what to expect in my classroom. So they know they're going to do pushups if they act like a knucklehead. And. Right. It's completely acceptable when parents love that. I mean, the first thing I'd open house, I.
speaker-0 (45:01)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (45:23)
I oftentimes will get parents that'll say, oh, she's been practicing her pushups. She's ready to go. you know, and that's the beauty of working at a classical school. My students can do pushups and it's not punitive. I mean, it's 10 and you get back up. But usually it's the young man who are a little off task and you just say, do 10. And I keep teaching. They do their 10 pushups, sit back down. but they siblings know that, hey, I'm to go play soccer for Mr. Willowry. I know that that he's going to be.
physically demanding because they see me working out, they see me staying in shape and they know that that's important to me and so therefore I want it to be important to all my athletes because never will I want my team to lose a game because they're out of shape and not prepared.
speaker-0 (46:03)
Yeah.
Yeah. And I just have to say Doug and I did coach high school girls soccer together for a short time and I was the head coach for a short time. But Doug, after they got rid of me, Doug has had 10 times the success I ever dreamed of having. And so I'm only sorry that I didn't step aside earlier for all those girls who played for me and didn't have the success they could have had under.
speaker-1 (46:29)
Listen, you're
the reason I coach soccer at all. I mean, you and the fact that my son told me, Daddy, I don't like wrestling. I don't want to wrestle anymore. But you asked me that same year. You asked me, hey, what are you doing? You want to be my assistant coach in the spring for girls soccer? I had never I. Before.
speaker-0 (46:47)
Was that right?
Really? completely freak.
speaker-1 (46:51)
Yeah, so Sam I got him into wrestling because that's my sport and we're driving home from practice one night and he said from the backseat Dad, I don't like wrestling. I don't want to do it. I went home broken-hearted. I told my wife Sam doesn't like wrestling You know if you want to be involved in our kids's sports life You better switch over to soccer and that's that's that same year. You asked me to help you coach so
speaker-0 (47:06)
man.
amazing. that's great. Yeah. Well, you're, welcome. And you're welcome to all those years of successful high school girls who, yeah, had a great experience with you. that's great. so you brought up your, your son and daughter, Sam and Sam and Hannah. ⁓ and I will say Hannah now is ⁓ a, a very successful soccer career at Emporia state and now remarkably placed, for the Guatemalan national.
soccer team, which I'm just over the moon about, dude. mean, that's just, that's the coolest, but they've also both gotten married here in the last few years. And I think you're a grandfather as well. that right?
speaker-1 (47:56)
So lots have changed over the last couple of years. My son first got married to a beautiful woman ⁓ from Nebraska where they now live. And then last January, Hannah got married to a gentleman from Lawrence, Kansas. But that wedding was in Guatemala where she was born and was a strong, you know, we obviously have a strong tie to that country with my wife being Guatemal-
So yeah, it's awesome.
speaker-0 (48:21)
And
how has that changed you? mean, because, know, it's interesting. You get to a certain age in life and you're like, okay, I kind of know what I'm doing, right? You've been teaching for a long time. You're like, I'm good in the classroom. Fine. I've got this military background. You've been doing the farming thing for a while. But then all of a sudden your kids get married. You have a son-in-law and a daughter-in-law and now you're a grandfather. And all of a sudden you're in a completely new phase. You've not walked in.
speaker-1 (48:47)
It's know when when our kids Sam joined the military right after high school, so he left and went off to the army Hannah finished up her senior year Sam got back from the army as Hannah Graduated her senior year. Yeah, and both of them left the home and went off to the university in one week So we were empty nesters in a blink of an eye and it Honestly, it probably took me about an hour to get used to that
No, and I thought, well, you know, this is OK. Luckily, OK, because they were both so close. I mean, yeah, and we still saw them on weekends. And so, you know, it was my wife, on the other hand, I think is probably still grieving.
speaker-0 (49:24)
Really?
Yeah, because then she was just left in a home with you, man. And that would be tough for anybody. For either of our lives.
speaker-1 (49:41)
Really hard for anybody.
so
I think what's happened since ⁓ giving my little girl away, ⁓ that's caused, I don't know. I don't know if I'm just now realizing, you know, life is pretty short, but, you know, I'm fond of the book Ecclesiastes and I know that things ⁓ don't last forever, but I see, I see, I think the
the final third of my life ahead of me. And I recognize that, you know, I'm at that point where my parents were when I got married or when I first had a child. so it's it's created this sense of. I don't know. mean, I still find the absolute joy in having my kids ⁓ be relatively close, but also I'm becoming a grandfather, which means I'm getting older.
And I guess they are too, but maybe I'm starting to see that more in myself. I don't know.
speaker-0 (50:50)
Yeah, what are you learning these days that's new? I mean, from that experience, are you learning something new about yourself or is it more I'm learning something about life that I maybe couldn't have learned until I experienced it?
speaker-1 (51:02)
exactly
it because I think I've always always relished every ⁓ phase of my children's lives. mean growing up and I don't recall ever having the terrible twos. I mean I loved every phase of life with my kids and so even going off into college, know, it was I still loved it and I I I find this just recognizing that this is a phase of life that I've never been in, know, my kids are now adults. So I'm I'm a parent to adult children who don't.
need me to parent them anymore. So more as a hopefully a voice of wisdom, counsel when sought, but just someone who wants to be there to support my kids in their journey.
speaker-0 (51:44)
Let
me ask this question. mean, we've talked about you, know, growing up in Minnesota, you find your way into the military and education. You're in Guatemala, you're in Iraq, you're in Kansas, you're teacher, farmer, soccer coach. You seem, so I have two questions for you. What brings coherence to Doug Woolery's life? I mean, there are all those different aspects to who you are, but you seem...
those don't seem like disparate moments, but what's brought coherence and then what's brought contentment? Because Doug, you seem like a content person who's probably not going to experience the kind of midlife crisis. Like, I wish I'd never done that or I wish I had done that or I'm trying to recover that. But so what's brought coherence to, you know, low these many years and low these many vocations?
speaker-1 (52:38)
Yeah, great question and I don't know that I have a simple answer for that I I think. I think finding the joy in what I do helps. Bring a coherence amongst all the different things that I do and I also believe that you know my strong faith has been a bedrock of of. Sort of the.
pervasive joy that I feel in life. love living life. I love my job. I love what I do. I love working hard on the farm. I like taking down barns. I've absolutely, one of the best jobs I've ever had is being a parent and raising my kids with my wife. I love being a father. I think just finding an internal joy and satisfaction in what we do, even in the hard things, ⁓ gives me
an inner sense of peace that, you I don't think comes from just me, you know, honestly, I don't think I would have sustained the way I did through my experience in Iraq if I hadn't had a foundation of faith that sustained me because I saw...
speaker-0 (53:52)
I
think I asked you one time how you came, because a lot of guys come back and struggle with reentry and they struggle with what they've seen. So a lot of guys in military and conflict feel a kind of moral outrage at what they've been told to do or what they've seen done. And it really struggles psychologically. But I think I asked you a long time ago, if you experienced that and you said no, and I said, well, why not?
speaker-1 (54:20)
I I, I, I, it's not that I did.
speaker-0 (54:22)
And I think you answered with some some aspect of faith. I think is what you told me like 20 years ago when I asked.
speaker-1 (54:27)
I
had my moments, you when I came back, I think I had some anger issues initially. And as a result of, you know, seeking a higher power to deal with that issue, along with a loving wife who ⁓ came alongside of me to deal with it, I feel like it was resolved in a really healthy way. I think my faith has helped me deal with adversity. mean, I...
You know, there's an old saying that there's no atheist in foxholes. And I think when you put a human being in adverse situations, whether it's ranger school or isolation ⁓ in a combat zone away from your young children who, know, every day you're faced with the aching thought of, you know, my kids may grow up without a dad. I think the only thing that does sustain me in times like that is leaning on a
a higher power, honestly.
speaker-0 (55:28)
Yeah, and I think even those of us who've not been in the military haven't had that exact experience, but I think most of us have faced, or many of us have faced moments of crisis, moments of friction, moments of, a kind of despair where you're like, don't know how I'm getting through this. This could end really badly. I don't know what I'm doing. And yeah, maybe it's that faith that...
does sustain you or not, the lack thereof perhaps through those kind of moments.
speaker-1 (55:58)
And I've seen it both ways. I saw men around me in combat who had no faith system in place and were left to their own devices and oftentimes to their own admission fell far short.
speaker-0 (56:12)
Well, and as guys, mean, a friend of mine who is a brilliant psychologist and works with lot of returning soul, actually, he works with adolescent boys and returning soldiers with PTSD. And he's like, you know, there's some similarities here, but he would often say, you know, guys, we go wrong in different ways than women. You know, I mean, he was like, we find it in, you know, when we're trying to compensate or trying to like, you know, assuage though, that inner angst, he's like, it's alcohol.
It's sex, it's risk, it's these kinds of things that he said, find, we all find ways of managing or coping. Just some of them are healthy and some of them aren't. And it sounds like you're saying for you, it was, it was really faith and a supportive, you know, wife and family that, that kept you from maybe, you know, finding other ways to, ⁓ to, to manage.
speaker-1 (57:01)
I I was 38 when I turned 38 in Iraq. And so I was older, you know, had children. And when I got back, I think I channeled my some of my energy that maybe was negative into a physical challenge. So I decided to run an I decided to run an Iron Man until I trained for that and put a lot of energy into that and
I think that was a really healthy way for me to sort of balance out and channel some of the energy that I had.
speaker-0 (57:41)
love it. That's great. I mean, it's not something you necessarily think about doing, but yeah, I mean, I think as a guy, maybe this is why you enjoy working on the farm. And for me, as a teacher as well, I'm in my head a lot, but I have got to live in my body too, because I'm embodied. And so it's why I run, it's why I hike, it's why I cycle, it's why I've got to feel embodied in that way. And my wife sometimes would be like, you know, you're kind of grumpy and like kind of a pain to live with. Can you just like...
Go out and like go for a run, really long run. You'll be, you'll come back happier and we'll all be happy. So I'll see you in a few hours. And you know, she's almost always right.
speaker-1 (58:17)
I mean, my wife loves me more than makes sense. I, but she knows, she knows how I work and it's the same thing. I mean, she knows that that being physically active is an important part of my mental health. So luckily we're able to do that together a lot. has the same interest as I do. Do you remember the time that we had a gathering at my house and you ran here? Do you remember that?
speaker-0 (58:39)
man, Doug, I have to say this is one of the worst training runs I've ever had. So I knew, yeah, I mean, you were like, it was like a 20 mile training run. I was training for the Sacramento Marathon and I was hoping to have a Boston qualifying time, but I ran out to you. I don't know, I don't know if it was hot, but I knew I was in trouble like five miles in.
And I was like, I still have 15 miles in like hot Kansas sun to get to Woolery's farm out in the middle of nowhere. So yeah, in fact, it was so bad. For some reason, there was like a county cop or something driving down the dirt road in the middle of nowhere who stopped and asked me if I was OK. And I said no. I think it's the only time in my life I've asked somebody for for a ride. And he's like, I'm not supposed to do this, but I must have been in bad shape.
speaker-1 (59:30)
When you got to the house, I think you were hurt.
speaker-0 (59:33)
Yeah,
I was, I was, I was hurting and I did not qualify for Boston. Let me just say in that Sacramento marathon, three or four weeks later. So I do, I do remember that, but still, you know, I think it's one of those areas. Sometimes I think that I have to give myself permission to pursue not only as an embodied soul, but as a guy. And I know that I live in my body and I'm, a better person.
and a happier, healthier person when I am living in my body in that way. I almost, despite all the other things I have to do, sometimes I'm like, no, I need to give myself permission to do this, to live in my body.
speaker-1 (1:00:12)
I find that's necessary too. mean, during the school year when I'm in classes, I oftentimes my morning routine is up at 4.45 working out. So I can start my day because I know that the day gets full and when I'm done with work, I'm ready to relax. I'm ready to come home. And oftentimes that means I probably wanted to have the energy to hit the gym. So I do it on the front end and that works best for
speaker-0 (1:00:42)
That's what I have to do as well, because you don't know how the rest of the day is going to go, but nothing's happening at 4.30 and 5 a.m. The rest of the world's asleep, so I'm like, I can get out and do it. So did you answer my question? What's brought coherence to Doug Willery's life across all these domains and what's brought contentment? Is it that sense of like, I'm doing what I enjoy doing?
speaker-1 (1:01:03)
I think I'm in exactly the right place when I love my job every day. I know I'm doing what God designed me to do. I really do. And I find contentment in that. I'm turning 60 in April. I have no desire to retire. None whatsoever. I love what I do. And I don't have plans to hang that up. And so I think
I think when I, you know, when I get done with the school year, oftentimes it'll take me about two weeks on my tractor to turn back into an adult because I sort of become, well, I become junior high minded during the school year because of the, you know, have 65, seventh and eighth graders that I deal with every day. And I can, I can banter with the best of them at the junior high level. And they understand my humor. I don't oftentimes get theirs and I don't know the
speaker-0 (1:01:51)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (1:02:01)
the current buzzwords all the time. So I have to keep up on that. but you know, and then I transition into farmer Doug and I find absolute joy and contentment in that. You know, it's another season and a lot of people don't have that luxury. You it's just a hobby to me. It's you know, I I transition into farming and I do that the entire summer. And I love that.
speaker-0 (1:02:20)
that's right.
What do you love about farming? mean, farming's hard. grew up, know, my people on my mom's side of the family are all Kansas farmers, South Central Kansas. I mean, that's real work. ⁓
speaker-1 (1:02:41)
Well, I
don't do row crops or anything like that. just do brome hay. So I fertilize brome hay. Actually, I have a farmer come in and fertilizes my hay every year. So I've got about 20 acres that I cut and I rake and I bale and then I deliver it to my customers.
speaker-0 (1:02:46)
Yeah, what do you do on your farm?
And do you have cattle? Didn't you have cows?
speaker-1 (1:03:06)
I've had cattle and I don't I didn't know anything about any of this stuff when we bought the farm I'd never you know my my dad grew up on a farm
speaker-0 (1:03:15)
Yeah, we called you Google, Google farmer behind your back because I think Doug was like, I want to raise cattle. Hey, Google, how do I breed cattle? Hey, Google, how do I build a
speaker-1 (1:03:25)
Yeah, and actually back then I was probably just buying the books. I'm looking at a book on my shelf right now, How to Raise Beef Cattle. ⁓ Yeah, and I love learning new things. My dad was a very mechanically inclined man and I spent a lot of time out in his shop with him just watching him work on stuff. Farming is hard work, but it's also very rewarding. When I'm out working in the field all day and it's a beautiful day, I get to enjoy.
God's creation and the beauty of being out in nature, ⁓ even if I'm sweating and working hard. And then I end that day and I just feel, I feel great, you know?
speaker-0 (1:04:07)
Yeah, Doug, for listeners who don't have the opportunity to shift from these different spheres like you do, maybe, or haven't practiced that, do you have counsel for them? mean, the lessons that you've learned that you think, you hey, thinking about some of the dads maybe of your own students,
I mean, are there things you'd want to say? Hey, you know, attend to this or, you know, don't lose sight of that or give yourself permission to do this. mean, there kind of words of counsel?
speaker-1 (1:04:49)
I mean, I think for my, I can only speak for myself. I think what I've found to work for me is that I wake up each and every day ⁓ looking forward to what's gonna happen that day. my day is not always predictable. And I find the opportunities I have to interact with people, especially my students, I decide how I respond.
in every situation. I think ⁓ predetermining that I'm going to respond with grace, humility, kindness, fairness, you know, having that at the forefront of my everyday interactions, I think makes things ⁓ easier to live with. And no, I'm not perfect, you know, as my wife will be quick to tell you, I'm not. ⁓ But yet at the same time, I think it's important to
You know, come at it from a humility standpoint of interacting with people. And I always tell my students, know, when you walk into my room in the morning, give the greeting of the day. You're coming into my space, say good morning. ⁓ know, and I think looking up from the floor, looking up from our phones, paying attention to the world around us and whether that's, you know, having kids at home, pay attention to them.
Surround you surround yourself make memories for a lifetime each and every day because before you know it Your kids will be out of the the house. Yeah grandfather
speaker-0 (1:06:25)
married and out of the
house. Yeah, that's right. I think that's a struggle for some of us. I know like me, I pour myself into anything I do, but that means pouring myself into work. And sometimes, pursuing the good of work means sometimes I'm forsaking the good of my spiritual well-being, my family's well-being, whatever it happens to be. so I think that's
That's right. And that's a daily kind of lesson to remind myself to, you know, hey, attend to the people, attend to the place around you, because, you know, those are goods worth pursuing.
speaker-1 (1:07:03)
Faith
and family have always been at the forefront of my existence and I would encourage anyone who's questioning their existences to make sure you have your priorities straight. I think faith and family come at the high end of that.
speaker-0 (1:07:10)
Yeah.
Okay, hey, Doug, so this podcast Forged, we reflect on discipline, delight, craft and calling. So let me run you through some questions here. What's a discipline you've pursued over the course of your life that has really been sustaining to you? Physical fitness, okay. So what are you doing now? You're lifting, are you running? Do you have the knees still to run?
speaker-1 (1:07:33)
physical fitness.
You
have the knees, thank God. I mean, after wrestling and jumping on planes, I still have the knees.
speaker-0 (1:07:44)
Yes. Seriously. All right. So physical fitness. So what do you especially delight in?
speaker-1 (1:07:51)
that's interesting. I delight in looking out my window and seeing the next project I'm gonna work on on my farm.
speaker-0 (1:08:00)
I know you also delight at taking pot shots at snakes trying to get into your your chicken
speaker-1 (1:08:05)
I this was a family show, so I didn't know.
speaker-0 (1:08:08)
I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah, no, it's it's a lot of guys listening to it So the fact that you sit on your back porch with a sniper rifle and shoot snakes, I think is relevant
speaker-1 (1:08:17)
No,
so I have my special little snake gun is called the judge and I find absolute delight in taking that into my chicken coop anytime there's a snake and blowing its head off. You can find those on my Facebook page.
speaker-0 (1:08:32)
Yeah, okay, that's great. Yeah, the smile on your face shows the delight you take. And that's the army ranger coming through. Okay, so that's a discipline delight. What's what's a craft you've pursued or are pursuing?
speaker-1 (1:08:45)
stone masonry. Yeah, absolutely. mean, I'm excited about doing something I've never done before. I've built buildings, I've built chicken coops and did a remodel on my house and all that stuff, but I've never built anything out of stone. So I delight in learning a new craft and hopefully ⁓ it'll stand for a hundred years after I'm gone.
speaker-0 (1:09:11)
Yeah, are
you doing dry stack stone walls too? Did you do some of that?
speaker-1 (1:09:14)
I
have done that before. You know the area where I live in Kansas. There's no shortage of stone walls and a lot of the people around me don't want the stone on their land. So I have a never-ending supply of stone. So no, I'm going to do mortar. It's going to be faced on both sides. So probably a foot and half thick, 12 foot tall stone walls. It's going to be an undertaking, but I'm excited about that. Absolutely.
speaker-0 (1:09:41)
Okay, how long will it take you to build this stone barn?
speaker-1 (1:09:44)
Well, that depends because life has to go on while I'm doing it. So from dig digging the footings to stacking the stone, I would imagine it'll take me probably a year because I'm doing it by myself.
speaker-0 (1:09:55)
Yeah, but it hardly matters, the timing, right? I mean, it's sort of like the experience and the practice of attending to the craft. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. right. Well, I'll send, you know, I'll send my 18 year old boy out some summer here to help you. Absolutely. little faster. So, okay. All right. So, discipline, delight, craft, what's your calling? When you think of Doug Woolery, what's Doug Woolery's calling? Teaching. Teaching. That seems obvious. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Hey, so I often ask my guests if there is a poem,
or a paragraph or a sentence that has been significant to them over the years, either understanding their vocation or their work or just who they are. Is there something that comes to mind for you, a passage or a poem?
speaker-1 (1:10:39)
I'm a lover of Lincoln and there's a saying that he said during the Civil War and I think it was shortly after his son ⁓ Willie had died where he said that ⁓ he was oftentimes driven to his knees by the overwhelming conviction ⁓ that he had nowhere else to turn because his own wisdom and that of the people around him was insufficient for the day.
I find comfort in that simply because I've always loved reading about Lincoln. I think he was ⁓ kind of a man's man, you know, from humble beginnings, ⁓ but yet an eloquent speaker, ⁓ not to mention he was a wrestler. ⁓ Those words spoken from one of the most impactful presidents we've ever had in one of the most difficult times this nation has ever seen, it reminds me that, you know, no matter how
smart I think I may be or how strong of a handle I may have on a situation, it reminds me to pray and seek God's leading in
speaker-0 (1:11:48)
Well, thank you, Doug Woolery. Appreciate the time here, my friend. What a delight to talk to you. ⁓ This is great. ⁓ So, folks, we've been talking to Doug Woolery for the last bit here about his various vocations and what brings him coherence and contentment in his life as an Army Ranger, as a teacher, as a farmer, as a coach, as a parent, and now as an aging grandparent, I'll say. So,
You've been listening to Forged. This is a podcast of the Humanitas Institute about pursuing well-lived ordinary lives through discipline, delight, craft, and calling. Thanks, folks, and we'll see you next time.