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My name is Jeff, and I'd like to welcome you on a journey of reflection and insight into the tolls and triumphs of a career in automotive repair.
After more than 20 years of skinned knuckles and tool debt, I want to share my perspective and hear other people's thoughts about our industry.
So pour yourself a strong coffee or grab a cold Canadian beer and get ready for some great conversation.
Eric Pagliughi [00:00:00]:
Until we as manufacturers all get on the same page and having good relationships with these OEMs, the lack of knowledge and information that they're willing to share hurts the shops trying to fix these cars. And that's the double-edged sword because yes, I want to produce product that makes people's jobs faster. I want them to fix cars. And usually with us, the ones that complain the most are the ones that are doing things the wrong way.
Jeff Compton [00:00:40]:
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Jaded Mechanic Podcast. It's a Thursday night. If my voice cracks up a little bit, um, there's a lot of cold and, and stuff going around, so my voice will crack, but I'm trying to sound the same as I always have, so bear with me. Um, tonight I'm sitting with a really new friend of mine um, that actually is coming from somebody that I'm sure we're all familiar with the product. I'm with Eric— oh, I don't want to butcher your name, Eric.
Eric Pagliughi [00:01:08]:
No, do it. You gotta do it once.
Jeff Compton [00:01:13]:
Yes, Eric Palugi from Launch Tech USA, everybody. So Eric, how are you, man?
Eric Pagliughi [00:01:17]:
Good, good. How are you? Thanks for having me.
Jeff Compton [00:01:19]:
Yeah, thank you for being— now we were supposed to record a week ago, and then, uh, Eric's in New Jersey and got hit with like, you know, some, some weather, lost power for almost 2 days. And yeah, so this is, uh This is kind of fun to, to, to get to reconnect because, um, I'd never met Eric. Eric's never met me. But, you know, we're, we're interested to hear about LaunchTech USA because some of us are familiar with the product. Um, I'm not an expert on the product at all, so we wanted to reach out to Eric and give him the opportunity to kind of really share what's new and exciting with LaunchTech USA. So, Eric, I'll let you take it away, man.
Eric Pagliughi [00:01:58]:
Yeah, so, you know, a little bit, uh, I guess if I'll introduce myself first to get some background there, right? So, you know, I, I, uh, it's interesting story. I— the path that I've taken over the past 20 years has been just what a fun ride it's been, right? Yeah. You know, I was a, I, I, I was a shop owner for many years. Uh, I started out as— I was, I was, I was an operator for the gas company, and I was you know, welding and, you know, I was in the field working on vehicles, working on trucks, you know, just that motorhead type of mentality. Just, and I still, I'm still that way, right? So, you know, as you start to grow, you know, you look for new opportunities and as the Matco tool truck would come to the shop, our dealer that we were dealing with every week, you know, buying tools for the equipment that we were working on in the shop, he was getting ready to retire. So, you know, that question starts coming up when, when the dealer retires. They start asking and looking for the replacement, you know, for that route. So they don't want to have that gap in between because then you, you know, you piss everybody off and then they're— it's just, it's a hard, it's a hard path to take with, with tool dealers at that point.
Eric Pagliughi [00:03:15]:
So long story short, we got to talking back and forth and my juices started to flow a little bit about maybe wanting to, you know, own my own business and kind of go into something different and new and exciting and I pulled the trigger and I became a distributor. So I was a Macko distributor for 8 years. Wow. Started, yeah, I started like, uh, 2000, probably 8-ish around there somewhere, right? And, and, and interesting enough, you know, in that time of being a distributor, I was, uh, number 1 in sales and diagnostics, uh, multiple years. And when that starts to happen, the leadership starts asking, you know, distributors that are successful at certain things, yeah, they bring them into conversations, they bring in and ask you to, you know, what do you, what do you do? How do you do it? Can you teach? Can you explain to other distributors? Can you help the, you know, can you help your family out with teaching them how to sell the product? And that, and that was the case with probably any franchise, any business. You know, if there's somebody out there that's hitting a sweet spot with something, they kind of do their best to spread that around and try to make it infectious across the board, right?
Jeff Compton [00:04:27]:
Yeah, what's the secret sauce?
Eric Pagliughi [00:04:29]:
Yeah, so then I started consulting as a distributor. I started consulting with Matco and I was in the corporate office a lot, like almost on a monthly basis at some points, creating structure. And you know as well as I do, a big problem in the industry is training, right? Yeah. And awareness of product and how to get your hands on it and how to use it and the buttonology and, you know, what, you know, that mentality of when I buy a scan tool, it's got to tell me how to fix the car. It's just so hard to get around. It's so hard. It's such a struggle, right? So we started doing clinics and seminars for internal use for distributors And that led to a position of what we called a DSR, diagnostic sales representative. So I, I, I sold my route.
Eric Pagliughi [00:05:20]:
I got out of being a distributor and I took a job at the corporate office as a diagnostic sales representative. And, and that had, that was about a year of doing that. Very successful. Sales went up. Distributors started, you know, you start teaching distributors how to fish, you know, and then you start watching the, the, you know, the other distributors that you've been working with starting to sell diagnostics. Right? So the clinics— we did clinics every week. I would leave the house on Monday, come back on Friday, and I'd be— I basically had the Northeast region. Okay.
Eric Pagliughi [00:05:53]:
And then slowly started to hire multiple of what I did. So we had about 6 DSRs at the time. And then fast forward, we, uh, wanted to expand training, expand the business, expand the diagnostic portfolio. So then I got offered a diagnostics programs manager position at Matco. So then from about 2010 and on, everything that you've seen at Matco was kind of my, my child, working with the product management team and, you know, having my technical background and just that in that technician feel. Yeah, was always welcomed at a corporate level because things we do and things technicians do and things technicians need are a lot different than what some people sitting in the offices may think or feel like is, you know, you can't Google search and understand what technicians want.
Jeff Compton [00:06:49]:
No way.
Eric Pagliughi [00:06:50]:
You gotta be, you know, feet on the street and you have to do a lot of, you know, Q&A with the field to understand how to grow.
Jeff Compton [00:06:58]:
Because technicians almost always want the tool to be almost instinctual. You know what I mean? Like it should, you know, and I see it all the time where when we've talked to, you know, in past conversations how it's like I would love to be able to look at, you know, the temperature sensor reading from this module and this module. Say, compare the HVAC to the engine, right, to all that kind of different thing, right, if it's got a temperature PID. And how many tools will actually allow you to do that? Now, I understand that the networking within the car can make that an obstacle, but even sometimes within how they lay out data PIDs just in the engine controller, you know, it frustrates technicians. So we're always like, I wish it would do this and I wish it would do that.
Eric Pagliughi [00:07:38]:
It's funny you say that, and we'll touch on that in a little while for sure, but that Remind me about that, what you just said. That's an interesting comment you just made that made my eyebrow raise a little bit. So yeah, that's perfect.
Jeff Compton [00:07:50]:
So we always think like so fast, right? Like we want, get the next car, get the next car, right? Like flat rate or whatever it is, you know, it's not that about that, but it's like having to back up in a screen, you know, 'cause on our scan tool we can't always like, you know, if you're sitting on a laptop, how many guys run two screens now on their laptop? Lots of guys, right? On our scan tool, we can't always do stuff like that. And then it's like if you go from working at a laptop with two screens, all of a sudden you've got a scan tool in front of you, you're stuck to one screen. It's just that little bit of, oh, I wish I could, you know. Yeah, that's, uh, that's been my biggest hurdle. And I find that probably, Eric, that's why a lot of people, once they get onto a platform for scan tool that they like, they stick with that, right? Because it just becomes familiar. Like you and I were talking about on what I had always used And it's just because it was the first one that somebody ever gave me. And it's the one that I just navigate the fastest. I don't think it's the best tool on the market by far, not even close anymore.
Jeff Compton [00:08:49]:
The operating snap-on for everybody listening. But it's just a situation of like, I think everybody's so familiar with the way it's laid out, we just go to it, you know? And I'm trying— Muscle memory.
Eric Pagliughi [00:09:00]:
You have that muscle memory and you just go, you do what you do every day and it just becomes instinctual.
Jeff Compton [00:09:07]:
So that's, that's pretty loud. Now I have to ask, was Matco always with launch? Like, was it always— that was always the— their diagnosis?
Eric Pagliughi [00:09:15]:
So no, it was OTC back in the day, right? And it would then, you know, it slowly started transferring into Bosch, right? But OTC was like the old The Terminator days and, and stuff like that, where Matco was just not even on the map at that point. We were we were selling a little bit of, you know, OTC. We had a couple tools that had the Mako label on them from OTC. And, you know, even back before, some code readers and some DIY stuff that was, you know, some, some brands that I can't remember some of the names of some of the brands. It was just all DIY stuff. I mean, the game at that time was Snap-on and, and, and, and OTC, right? And then, and then in 2002, Launch came in to the country. And, you know, Launch is a global company.
Jeff Compton [00:10:03]:
Yeah.
Eric Pagliughi [00:10:03]:
And, and they're all— they're in almost every country of the world, and they run their business in silos of, of like different opcos, like the US market, that, you know, every, every country has their own leadership, their own, um, plan, their own UI. You know, we can do things in different countries that some of our software can't do. And that's a topic that I'm definitely going to touch on because that's just, that's a painful point for all of us, right? It's just what we can do. So, so, you know, Launch as a company— let me jump back so I don't skip where we started there because I ended off as a, as a programs manager. But from there, you know, you get to a point where I came from working in the field working in the garages, you know, working in my shop building race cars, just kind of doing it myself. And, and, and college just wasn't, wasn't for me, right? I, I've learned, I, I've learned from experience, and I have 30 years of experience in this business at this point. And, and, you know, getting to a point where I was at Matco and I started feeling like, you know, you get that itch where you start feeling like this isn't, this isn't the end game for me, right? Like there's something So, you know, I, I was looking, I was looking through the industry and, and talking to a lot of different companies. And Launch at the time, we were obviously working fairly close with them because they— we were branding their tool at Mako at that time.
Jeff Compton [00:11:30]:
Yeah.
Eric Pagliughi [00:11:31]:
So I was working close with the Launch team and, and they had a job posting and it was almost like one of those things where you, you read the job post, the job description, and it was like if, if someone said Hey, write your job description of exactly what you want to do today until you retire. That's what it was, right? It was like the sun just hit me and it was like, boom, this is, this is for you. Like, so it was a very tough and awkward conversation to have with, you know, the team at Macko. We were very close and it was like a family at that point. And it was just time for me to make a move. So I, uh, I pulled the trigger. Made the move, had to take a little bit of a vacation in between the move, and, um, I, uh, got the job as a vice president of Launch Tech USA. So I, I head up the marketing and product development side of Launch.
Eric Pagliughi [00:12:25]:
Um, uh, as of this past year, I was— been promoted to senior vice president now, so I oversee a lot more of the company. Um, the North American Canadian market are in my wheelhouse now, so Anything you see coming out of there is developed here in New Jersey. And we have a development center here and a training center here, and we have the same— and our main office is out in California and Ontario right now.
Jeff Compton [00:12:51]:
That's pretty awesome that somebody that's had that much hands-on, right, with a scan tool in their hands makes it to that position within the company. That's pretty— I, I think that's commendable because like there's a lot of people that are— that get to that level and they're just numbers people or they're just business people, right? They may have never even lifted the hood on a vehicle, right? Or they could You know, like tech guys that understand software and programming and stuff, but how does it apply to a car? Well, it's just, it's data, right? They don't necessarily— where you, you can understand how, going back to that thing, what do we wish it would do for us better is all instinctual, right? And that's something that if you have another boots on the ground, you know, you're not necessarily going to have that feel for it. But so I think that's pretty cool. That's good for Launch.
Eric Pagliughi [00:13:38]:
I think that's, you know, right place, right time, I think plays a big part of that. And, and I think the unique— I think the winning recipe the past couple years at Launch and, and, and what we've accomplished has been, you know, there's a lot of technology out there, a lot of things that these tools can do, but applying it to our market and what technician— and, and applying it to what, what a technician can actually use to either speed up their process and diagnosing, or, or just giving them more information or access to more information, you know, with partnerships, with, with all the partnerships that we have with Launch and other third parties. You know, there's so many, there's so many things that you can miss if you don't have that experience, right? And you don't have that, man, this would really work. Like, you could look at something and go, you know, I, I looked at this and, and this has been through 16 people, but the technician looks at it and he goes, hey, you know how we could use this? Exactly like that, right? And that's that— that's like that Tom Hanks in Big moment where he raises his hand in the room and he's like, hey, I got an idea, right? Yeah. And, and, and that's, that's, that's the family that we have at Launch. It's a really good— I'm building a team of, of really good technical, technical people. And, and really good strong salespeople. And our, one of our main focuses this past year has been training and clinics and support.
Eric Pagliughi [00:15:07]:
We have a, we have a training room here, we have a training room on the West Coast. We're starting to invite our customers in post-sale to learn the buttonology, learn all the nuances and flows of the, of the, of the scan tools. And we've seen, we've seen great success in being more involved at that level, for sure.
Jeff Compton [00:15:27]:
Yeah, because, you know, it's, it's like everybody's good when they put out a tool, you know, they throw up a couple YouTube videos or a login link or something that you can, and it walks you through the basic functions. But a lot of us never— we don't necessarily feel like— I know I can't sit through a 20-minute video anymore, right? Like, my brain is completely— it's TikTok, as David would say. So I got about a 6-minute attention span and that's it, a squirrel, and I'm on to the next thing, right? Or I'm trying to watch a video on YouTube and I'm still staring at my phone. So A lot of us just intrinsically play with the tool, and then we don't necessarily get that where, you know, we've, we've had other nights where you go on, on their training or whatever, or just guys sitting around, right, with the tool, and you go, hey, did you know it would do this? No. Yeah, like, that's, that's the fun part is when somebody says, oh, well, here, like, look at how this does this. You never would have necessarily found that because, like, it's our routine. We just You know, like we were just talking about, you might grumble about how something's set up, but you just go and do it that way. And there's sometimes a better way.
Jeff Compton [00:16:29]:
But yeah, that's where the after, after-sale support is really so important for so many of these, you know, a company like yours is getting people and going, what's the feedback? Well, I don't like this. Oh, we have a fix for that. You know, that's the stuff that makes me feel really—
Eric Pagliughi [00:16:47]:
and I can tell you, we, we pride ourselves in we have a feedback button built into the, our product, all our products, right? And you click that feedback button and it sends it directly to our lead engineers. And we, we segment to the point where there are times where we get a call come in through L1. And I'll give you an example. We had a, we had an issue with Ford software and it was a function that, that didn't work or something like that. And we got the call. It went through L1. Within 48 hours, we had a beta test for that tool.
Jeff Compton [00:17:20]:
Very cool.
Eric Pagliughi [00:17:21]:
Technician tested it. It worked. We put it out for, uh, within 72 hours, we had every tool in the country updated. So it had that function. We're fast. And that's the part that I, that, that's, that's the part that I think is starting to gain some traction and respect from the technicians is I don't have to wait 6 months to get an update. I don't have to wait a year to get an update to fix that problem with the technology today, the way these tablets work. I can send a patch directly to your serial number, any, from anywhere in the country.
Jeff Compton [00:17:49]:
Yeah. And we, we know as, like, as customers of tools, if I tell my customer, okay, I got to get an update on a tool, it's going to be like maybe 3 days, you can have them back, that's different than saying, uh, like, my tool won't do it and I don't know, you know. And so then what are you doing? You're like, you're essentially, you're losing that, you're losing that sale, but you're also losing potentially that customer to the dealer. Because they'll go back where the, where the OE stuff maybe will work. You know, you don't know.
Eric Pagliughi [00:18:17]:
A lot of our ideas have come from the feedback. Yeah, like some, some technicians send feedback all the time and just type in an idea, and then we'll take that and it'll spin into, you know, we'll have the think tank and it'll just go crazy for a couple days of, you know what, that was a great idea, but this, this, and this, we could do this. And it just sometimes some of this stuff happens so organically, it's, it's it's fun to watch.
Jeff Compton [00:18:40]:
That's awesome. What's the— like, you know, it always seems like technicians go, I want it, you know, it's boot up time, right? Like, it takes too long to turn on. Yeah, I remember that always seemed to be a big— when people were comparing tools, oh, look how fast it boots up, right? And I know a lot of that's cool, but a lot of us, like, some people never turn the tool off during the day, right? Like, it's just car to car to car to car to car. And, um, But what's something that, like, a lot of people give you feedback going, I wish the tool would do this better?
Eric Pagliughi [00:19:14]:
Battery life, boot up time for us is fast, we're less than 30 seconds, so that's never been a problem for us. Um, communication, you know, we get the— we have a, we have a Bluetooth VCI. Okay, Bluetooth and/or Wi-Fi. It depends on you as an end user how you want to use the communication. Um, I would say, let me see, a popular request is, is usually, usually— and this is the frustrating part, and this is probably going to segue right into where we're going to really get into some of my frustrations with this business— is, right, we get that, well, I can— I did it with this, or I see somebody's been doing this with this product, or I want to do this, and it's some sort of function that doesn't make any sense to change because there are so many bad players out there that are, are hurting our relationship with the OEs. It's the most frustrating part of our business is like skipping the, the wait time to do keys on a car, do it like, like that type of request where it's like there's these implemented for a reason, right? And there's processes that we need to follow. And the more, you know, I'm— this is a double-edged sword for me, right? Because I'm a technician, but I also am a manufacturer. And Launch has great relationships with OEMs.
Eric Pagliughi [00:20:43]:
We have Ford licensing direct. We have direct licensing with Ford security gateway stuff. We have all the other security gateways. We have good relationships. Let me just say that with these OEMs. With the OEMs. We have a full membership at ETI. We're NASTIF certified now through the Scantool Validation Program.
Jeff Compton [00:21:04]:
Good.
Eric Pagliughi [00:21:04]:
And, you know, and, and sometimes those decisions that we've made make end users feel like we're— it's a money grab, or it's, it's a way to, you know, make more money because you got to become a, a, a locksmith when you're NASTIF, and it's $430, and you got to pay Now it's like, I think Security Gateway through AutoAuth now, total, if you get all 3 manufacturers plus your certification for Mercedes, it's like $150-some now a year to manage that. And we get the arrow. We get hit right on the chin every time because they think it's us doing that. Right. And it's not the case. But the big problem is the ones that are breaking the rules and the ones that are just doing everything they can, these like, like You know, these used to be Snap-on, Bosch, us, Alltel, and then now you start seeing a lot of, a lot of other names just start popping up, popping up, popping up. And some of them are just these quick in and outs that don't last. Some of them are growing, some of them aren't.
Eric Pagliughi [00:22:12]:
But until we as manufacturers all get on the same page with becoming and having good relationships with these OEs, the lack of knowledge and information that they're willing to share hurts the shops trying to fix these cars.
Jeff Compton [00:22:31]:
Yeah.
Eric Pagliughi [00:22:32]:
Right. And, and it's— and that's the double-edged sword because yes, I want to produce product that makes people's jobs faster. I want them to fix cars. And, and usually with us, the ones that complain the most are the ones that are doing things the wrong way.
Jeff Compton [00:22:48]:
And, you know, I— it's a funny conversation, right? Because people talk about like, you know, well, if they want a car, if they want to steal the car, like, I don't necessarily— they're going after the scan tool thing because they're just going to use a pistol and steal the car. I understand that, right? And it's like, that's what happens. But the idea that's like that everything should just be a free-for-all and anybody should be able to grab anything that they want that's out there and be able to clone this and create that. The idea to think that we shouldn't be being careful of that and being responsible and professional, it's just absurd to me because we have a responsibility. One minute we want to look more like professionals, we want to change that stereotype, and then the next minute they're like, I don't want to pay for anything, I want everything to be available to me. If I have to go and get this bootleg junk and make this thing work, I'm going to do that because god darn it, it's going to save me $70. I've never understood that mentality because is the customer wants it done the right way, right? You should not have to break laws and, you know, trespass, walk right on that line, let's say, of doing really shady stuff just to fix cars. You shouldn't have to do that.
Jeff Compton [00:24:03]:
They're, they're offering us the information that we need, albeit we have to pay for it. I'm good with that. But the other option is if we don't be responsible, they'll take it away from us and we won't be able to access it. And then what's everybody in the aftermarket sector of the repair industry going to do?
Eric Pagliughi [00:24:21]:
Yeah, you know, it's exactly right. And, you know, for us, it's just these— we get that comparison constantly and it's this race to the bottom. Yeah, a frustrating race to the bottom of we make so much traction and we start, you know, we get the ScanTool Validation Program live and running.. And you get all these companies saying, yeah, we're gonna do it. Yeah, we're gonna do it. Yeah, we're gonna do it. But, but, but that's all they're doing is the opposite of what they're saying they're gonna do. And it hurts the ones that are doing it good.
Eric Pagliughi [00:24:53]:
Like, you know, Snap-on and us and Bosch, like the ones that are trying to follow the rules to the, you know, to the point where, yeah, is there a gray area? Are there processes and things that we want to build that make things faster? Of course. That's what we do. We're innovators. We're going to— I'm going to do anything I can to make a technician's job faster. But when it comes to, you know, 2+ million cars a year getting stolen with scan tools, yeah, I, I can tell you right now, the reports that come out, Launch doesn't have any, you know, like we're not part of that and we're never going to be part of that. I don't want— I have too many partners and too many relationships to worry about that lawsuit coming our way because we did something to skip the 10-minute wait or the 20-minute wait or this or that. Like, listen, legitimate shops that are in business to fix cars and do it right don't complain to us. No, they don't.
Eric Pagliughi [00:25:53]:
Yeah, they just want to know what they need to do and how they need to bill and charge because we bill and charge for what we do. We bill for diagnostics. I know you've had that conversation probably multiple times. If you run your business the way you're supposed to run it, none of these charges and costs even affect you.
Jeff Compton [00:26:14]:
No, it's, it's because it's just, it's just rolled in. Like, it's— I don't understand, because I thought eventually, like, when the stuff started to pick up in technology, right, everybody would just accept that a code reader wasn't going to be all you needed, right? It was just going to be the one thing. And, and, and, you know, we were always— but God, man, it's 20 years later and I still, still see so many people stuck in that mindset of, I wish I could do everything with a $100 tool.
Eric Pagliughi [00:26:44]:
Yeah, I mean, you know, a unique thing for us is, you know, I, I try to make it easier with our software too. With, with, with our portfolio, I don't limit the capabilities. If you have our Pro line and you're going from our 7-inch tablet, 8-inch tablet, 10-inch tablet, 13.6-inch tablet, right? And you have all those on the table. Yeah. You click Ford or GM or Chrysler or whatever, you click that button. I don't care what tool it is, when you're cooked to the car and you click that button, the capabilities are exactly the same with every tool. Yeah. Now what changes is the size of the screen, the processing speed, the VCI capabilities, remote programming.
Eric Pagliughi [00:27:25]:
And then we get into some of the topic that you touched on a little bit is with our big screen, our 13.6-inch screen. I don't just have that tool because I want it to be a gigantic screen. I actually think it's too big of a, of a screen myself. I like that 10-inch space. That's where, to me, that's that comfortable, you know, scan tool that I grab every day. But for someone that wants to go in there and grab multiple PIDs out of multiple modules, our scan tool now has a VCI that's compatible with I can go into 5 different modules, I can pick 15 different PIDs from each module, and I can build files now. So if I want to look at trans data and I want to look at PCM data and I want to look at BCM data all at the same time, I can create that file, save it, and now have— hey, when that F-150 comes or that Chevy comes in and has the trans problem, I have a data set and PIDs that now I choose, choose, and boom, I see it all at the same time, live, all at the same time.
Jeff Compton [00:28:24]:
That is fantastic because you know how that is, right? When we're first cracking these, these riddles that become a pattern failure, you want those same 12 PIDs just like that every time.
Eric Pagliughi [00:28:35]:
And I'm not going to tell you what you need to look at to fix the car. I'm going to let you modify your scan tool to how you want it to be, right? And that's— I think that's more sought after than us trying to bang on our chest and say we know what we're doing, you should— you have to do it this way. I want you to be able to modify and change your, your files, your, your settings. You know, we give so much freedom with the product, which I think is a positive thing for us to keep following, right? So that, that— and then, and then to your point, when I'm looking at all these PIDs, I can split the screen and, and use my scope while I'm using the scan tool all at the same time. Yeah, right. So I can go into— I can plug my VCI in with the same scan tool. I can split the screen, I can bring up data, and then I can bring up a scope and I can actuate things and watch stuff happen on the other side.
Jeff Compton [00:29:29]:
Yeah, so you're getting real effect, not a buffered—
Eric Pagliughi [00:29:34]:
yeah, yeah, that's some cool stuff. It's some cool stuff happening, right? Uh, I, I just, you know, back to the I just, I, I'm, you know, I'm on the, uh, um, the board now at NASTF. I was voted in this past year, so that was something that happened that was pretty exciting for me. And, and I'm, and, you know, one of my initiatives is help, help promote and guide the ability to close that gap in information and, and get the OEs to give us aftermarket more information to be able to fix their cars because You know, maybe you agree, maybe you don't, but I'm a firm believer of— and this has happened to me in my shop for many years— I've had customers that come in to me as a shop owner or a technician and say, hey, I'm gonna buy a new car, what should I stay away from? And what do you think I'm gonna say, right? I'm gonna tell you to stay away from all the stuff that I can't fix.
Jeff Compton [00:30:32]:
That's right.
Eric Pagliughi [00:30:33]:
I have trouble getting information on. And some of these manufacturers know that that's true.
Jeff Compton [00:30:39]:
And a lot of my bias that the brands that I still don't like is all based on 10 years ago trying to access data and certain things with, with, uh, you know, a, a big name tool that, that wasn't the best tool at the time to grab for that particular brand, right? So that's a lot of my bias. And it's like, unfairly, back then I was probably blaming the manufacturer of the car. And in reality, it was probably a situation of there wasn't a big market necessarily to justify buying all that data to put in the tool. So I'm getting mad at, you know, I hate Euros because the way the aftermarket has caught up now with the European stuff and what they've been able to do is just, it's mind-blowing to me how far that's come. I want to say that that's probably been the biggest leap because the domestics were always, they played ball pretty good always, right? Like, you know, Ford and Chevrolet and you know, Dodge, they always were very, you know, you could get just about everything you needed. But you looked at the Euro and you couldn't even necessarily trust the data you were looking at was even accurate. You know what I mean? We would see so many glaring things. So good on, on you guys for stepping into that realm and saying like, hey, open up more and more for us.
Jeff Compton [00:31:58]:
And I understand it costs. They don't give it to you. Like, this is the other thing I explain to people all the time. We just had that conversation with Lucas, and it's, it's the same as service information. There's so many variables now in all this that you can't get it all. They— it's just, it would cost too much. So it's like you have to pick and choose, you know, what, what am I going to work on? And then that's going to determine— so my bias, a lot of it is like when I tell people, it's like, I like working on these brands because I know that what I can provide for you is very close to what the dealer can in terms of what my tooling can do. It doesn't mean that the car that you might really like is, is a crappy car.
Jeff Compton [00:32:37]:
It just means that it gives me more obstacles when I'm trying to do it based on the tooling that I have and the experience. And the, and that, you know, if I get more exposure, different tooling might seem like a cakewalk, right?
Eric Pagliughi [00:32:48]:
But yeah, and, and if you look at— to that point, if you look at the industry out there, I mean, what are the top 10% of shops in the country have, have enough volume to manage the— what they need to have all the factory information and tooling. And, you know, that's not reality in most cases. There's a shop on every corner in some cases, and a lot of them don't have the volume to be able to afford that information. To your point, they're picking and choosing. So, you know, we, we had a— we have a relationship with, uh, Aztek. Okay. And for the flashing side of things, so our VCI is J25, like, like a lot of them are. But we have a, we have an agreement and we have a partnership with Repairify where they have a warehouse full of racks of scan tools and they have licensing to use these scan tools remotely across the country.
Eric Pagliughi [00:33:40]:
So for, you know, you plug our VCI into a car, you click a button on our scan tool and it invokes a communication line with Aztek. They remote in, they flash the car. If for some reason you need, what we're starting to also see today, or, you know, remember the years of your phone wouldn't stop ringing because they said, oh, you know, your vehicle's warranty is expiring and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, buy our warranty, this and that, right? So that happened over and over and over again, but you'd be surprised how many people bought those warranties, right? So now these shops, what we're— and this is feedback we're getting from shops, so this isn't, this isn't me telling you what it is, this is our feedback that we get— is now these warranty companies that are starting to have to pay claims are saying, yeah, you got that Ford F-150 in the shop. We need a factory scan to verify and get approval for the repair. And now a shop goes, wait, what do you mean? I'm going to give you a health report from my launch scan tool. And they say that's not acceptable. It needs to be a factory Ford one. So they're either— because they know you can't do it most of the time.
Eric Pagliughi [00:34:45]:
And some shops are going to say, what do I do? Send my customer's car to the dealership to get it scanned? So I can get approval on their warranty when now taking all this time out of my day. So for $50, you can use RVCI. Aztek logs in, gives you a factory Ford, and emails you the, the, the, uh, report from a factory scan tool.
Jeff Compton [00:35:03]:
That's awesome.
Eric Pagliughi [00:35:04]:
So anything that we can't do today, you have the ability to do remotely from a partnership we have with Aztek.
Jeff Compton [00:35:12]:
That's huge. That is so cool because— and that's just God, that's sneaky what they're talking about, what you were just saying, because it's like, how much of this stuff are we still fixing? That's just pretty much generic, you know, generic data is more than enough to get through, right? And then you might want the, the OE side for a couple of enhanced tests, you know, a grill shutter or something like that. But like, that's just absurd to say, oh, we want the PIDs from the OE tool. That's just—
Eric Pagliughi [00:35:41]:
the times have changed. The days of buying a, a laptop that has factory tooling on it, you know, without, without having cloud-based connection with that manufacturer, are— those days are slowly starting to end, and you have to be able to hit their servers to get the right functionality for that VIN. And that's the other problem too, is really drives me nuts, is, you know, all these, these companies that are out there, we can program this, we can program that, and it, it's not VIN specific, and it's coming from files that aren't even in this country, and it's like Why don't you do this if they can do this? And I'm like, well, I do do it. You're gonna, you're gonna pay a company to log in, or you're gonna, you're gonna create an account with that company, you're gonna buy a J-Box, and you're gonna, you're gonna download the, the strategy that is right for that VIN. Because here's what I'm not gonna do: I'm not gonna let my tool— can we do it? Yes. Do our tools in the country, in the world, do it overseas? Yes, they're allowed to do it. In the U.S., we have strict guidelines. I'm not going to flash a car that has a model, say 10 different models, and that model may have some sort of security braking function that I flash it from some unknown area on an F-150 or a vehicle that has 6 different strategies for 6 different VINs.
Eric Pagliughi [00:36:59]:
And here I am throwing it. Yeah, well, can I flash it? Sure. Does it have all the functionality and everything work? No. Yeah, and we've proven So I'm not doing it.
Jeff Compton [00:37:09]:
Then you get all these codes afterwards that you're like, I don't even know what does it mean, right? And it's all— yeah, I just, I can't see how people think that that's worth it, you know what I mean? To just to go and take those risks like that. I, I guess it's something maybe is— does that happen because stuff is getting older and it's getting phased out and they're trying to—
Eric Pagliughi [00:37:31]:
you know what, what's becoming to get to be more popular is the, the repair of modules because you can't get the modules, right? And I'm sure you've had that conversation. And so, so we have recently unlocked all our Xprog software and all our universal key software, but what we didn't— so we used— so what we did in the beginning when it was this gray area of, okay, immobilizers and all this key stuff, we gotta— you gotta be, you gotta be NASTIF and you got to be VSP certified to do it. We shut it off. Back in '23. I shut it off. Okay. It was a, it was, it was a business decision to never get in that gray area and never have Launch Tech USA be in that lawsuit getting sued by someone like Ford or GM and Chrysler. That was never going to happen.
Eric Pagliughi [00:38:22]:
So did we take a hit in sales? Did we take a hit in popularity? Yes, we did. But now it's starting to come around. Right, knowledge is getting out there. We're training a little more. The, the industry is starting to, to, to accept some of this stuff that is like third-party, you know, uh, subscriptions and things that need to be done. Flashing is becoming more relevant, and now you're not able to get these modules. So we worked very hard for the past 2 years to segment what we're allowed to do and what we're not allowed to do. So now I have it very fine-tuned where when you have— when my tool asks for a VSP credential, it's because you're doing something security that that manufacturer says you need this fingerprint to do this work.
Eric Pagliughi [00:39:07]:
Yeah, let you do it, but you got to use your fingerprint to use to do it. Yeah, right. And I'm telling you, the only ones that, that, that makes angry are the bad players.
Jeff Compton [00:39:18]:
Yeah, and you know, I, I've had some conversations at shows and stuff like that with some people And how do I say that the right way? There's, there's, you know, Keith Perkins and I've talked about that too. And sometimes it's like the people that are so against the regulations are because like they know they would have a really hard time getting approval based on some, some poor decisions that they've made, you know, and I hate to see people necessarily get punished for life for one mistake. Right. I think that sucks. But man, there's been some people that is like, they're telling you and it's like, okay, yeah, I can understand why maybe, you know, you wouldn't necessarily be granted, you know, lots of security functions because of what you've done in the past, you know, like if you—
Eric Pagliughi [00:40:07]:
And if we show as manufacturers, if we come together and we show that we're creating a path to do it the right way, our, our our suspicion is the OEs will come around and start allowing us to do more. Yeah. If we, if we, if we keep having these one-offs pop up and just start tearing their stuff apart, it makes them lock up tight and they don't want— and I don't blame them. I don't blame them. Now what really irritates us is even, even though we're ETI full members, we're NASTF certified, VSP, I got everything locked down, there's still manufacturers that won't let us touch their stuff. Yeah, that's the confusing part that pisses everybody off, is they say, okay, I got the membership, I'm a VSP, I got all this, I got all that, and I still have to buy factory scan tools, and I still have to spend $70,000, $80,000 in equipment to do the work. Like, where's the line drawn, right? Yeah, legislation needs to happen, right? The repair needs to come around, and we need to really start getting on board with, like, let us do this or not.
Jeff Compton [00:41:17]:
Right, because I think that's what a lot of people— you touch on something really cool. I've heard that same conversation where it's like they start labeling everything as a security part, so that— and then it becomes not a situation of we're really too concerned about the security of the vehicle anymore, it's a 12-year-old, whatever, you're all right, like, but it's a situation of they don't want— they want to lock us out, keep all the car in the dealer. And, and the idea that the dealer can support all the cars that they sell, you know, 5 years, 10 years later, is, is nuts. They can't even service the cars they have now under warranty. There's just not enough bodies. And the thing is, like, as a guy that's worked in the dealer, like, I just walked in and, you know, they, they set you up with the tool and you're programming keys the next day. Like, nobody's looked into, you know, what's your history like, or somebody, you know, they just— so the idea that all of a sudden they make it more difficult for the people in the aftermarket, to me, is just absurd. 'Cause at the OE level, there's all kinds of people that haven't been vetted any more or any less, but they just immediately, they get a rubber stamp, you're good to go, 'cause you work at the dealer.
Eric Pagliughi [00:42:21]:
It's a joke. Insurance, yeah, the insurance. That's a good point you made. The insurance piece to become, yeah, the insurance piece was a big complaint in the beginning for us. It was, hey, I'm a mobile technician. I'll spend the $400. I'll become a VSP. But my insurance, the insurance company that I'm dealing with wants me to be brick and mortar, but I'm a mobile vehicle.
Eric Pagliughi [00:42:42]:
I don't have brick and mortar. So then we, we, we finally, NASDIF had created a solution with Next Insurance. It's an application now. It's, it's an app on, you can go on to and you click it and it's like universal across the country where they're, they're getting better valued insurance, but understand why they need the insurance. Right. So you're not jumping through because a lot of these shops were feedback in the beginning was, and it was irritating to even hear the frustration in their voice of I'm doing everything, but now I'm trying to— the insurance that I have says I can't— I have to have all my stuff in a building every night or else they won't insure me for what I need to be insured for. And it's like, how do you— you're a mobile technician. How did that— I mean, yeah, that's the way that, you know, that I know.
Eric Pagliughi [00:43:30]:
Sometimes they're not brick and mortar. Sometimes they're these dietitians that run around and diag for all these shops, and that's becoming very popular. I mean, you know, these, these influencers and these shops that are online doing all, all these videos are really educating our industry and, and really doing a great job in, in bringing knowledge to that 6-minute video that they can actually pay attention to, right?
Jeff Compton [00:43:55]:
Yeah, like I talked to Check Engine Chuck today, and I mean, that's a guy that is well known across the industry as somebody that's like really up to date on, on, you know, what it takes to actually get some of this stuff to work out in the aftermarket. And you know, he's kind of, him and I have had lots of talks about the NASTF thing and the clearance and all that kind of stuff because like he sees it from both sides. Like, you know, it's a big outlay financially to maybe fix one car that I might not even see again. You know what I mean? But then it's like, so who bears that cost? Well, ultimately the customer should bear the cost, right? That's just the way it goes. I just, I 100% feel that because it's not his car, it's the, it's the used car lot that he's going to do it for. They bought it, they brought it home from the auction and needs all these modules, you know. Is that his can of worms? No, he's— so they had— it's just the price of the value of the job, as we keep saying, has to go up. And that's just the way it goes.
Jeff Compton [00:44:59]:
But you see people all of a sudden, they have so much fear and like, I wonder if I just try this, you know.
Eric Pagliughi [00:45:08]:
Yeah, we see it from both sides too, and that's for the record, we do see it from both sides. And I, and I agree both ways that it's frustrating when you're following the rules and you're still getting told no.
Jeff Compton [00:45:21]:
Yeah, right.
Eric Pagliughi [00:45:21]:
Yeah, we see it from both sides. We manufacture these tools and I, I wish I could just snap my fingers and turn on all the things we can do, right?, but we can't. And we just, we think our strategy is that I really think if we can get together as aftermarket manufacturers and really stay on the same page and create the relationships, we'll open up and bridge that gap for the information and the technologies needed for these aftermarket shops to do their job and make money.
Jeff Compton [00:45:57]:
So how— what's the question I want to ask? What's, what's the part that when you guys are sitting down and having these conversations with the, the different, you know, the OEs and all that kind of stuff, what's the, what's the argument that they give that you guys just kind of roll your eyes and go, that's, that's complete BS from a security standpoint?
Eric Pagliughi [00:46:21]:
From a security standpoint, there's an argument that says it's not our car anymore, it's the person's car who is driving it. Like, right, if a manufacturer says it's on our lot, we sell it, I'm giving you basically the keys to the castle for something that's not ours anymore, right? It's like a commitment and an end-user license agreement with that product of It's almost like sharing information, right? Like their argument is, in a nutshell, I'm really simplifying this, right? Right. But to answer your question, I think the best way to answer that question is their view is we're giving you security functions and something that's technically not ours anymore. Yeah. Right. And that's not okay for them. There's, there's privacy and proprietary stuff there where in some states, and it's by state too. So you got to think about it.
Eric Pagliughi [00:47:20]:
So think about the VIN. You get— you give somebody access to their car. I mean, have you ever gotten into a rental and turned on the radio and looked at the Bluetooth list on that car? Sometimes there's like 50 people in that thing, right? And sometimes they share their contacts and sometimes they share everything else and they load everything in that car. So technically, these, these hackers and these guys that go out there, man, they get that information, they get the phone numbers, they get— and that's where all these calls come from all day, every day.
Jeff Compton [00:47:49]:
Yeah. And that's what blows my mind is everybody keeps talking about like Oh, the people that— it's not the consumer that's super concerned about this stuff. Because like, I work at a car lot where we get cars coming from the auction all the time, and they— all their information is still in the damn car. Yeah, like there's, there's Barbara's phone. Do you want to— does Barbara's phone want to link to the car? No, because Barbara's, you know, traded this car how many months ago? But so the idea that people to me are really concerned, I don't believe they are, because they don't bother as soon as they're going to go trade that car of wiping that from the car. They don't unhook it, you know what I mean, unsync it and yeah, you leave it all in there. Yeah, we know it's in there. Like, we know it's there.
Eric Pagliughi [00:48:30]:
Now, yeah, there's a couple states that we've heard from the, from the repo business where there's, you know, hundreds, 100,000 cars sitting, not able to be sent to an auction because they're, they're not cleaned, you know, like they're not, they're not wiped clean, and they can't— in some states can't sell them until they're, they're wiped clean because you're selling technically somebody's information and proprietary whatever is in that, and then in that vehicle. So that, that's, that's been, I think, the number one pushback is it's, it's a— their argument is absolutely like, we're giving you permission to do something in, in something that we, we don't really want to take responsibility for, you know. And if you do something wrong, could we be financially liable?
Jeff Compton [00:49:14]:
Like, I—
Eric Pagliughi [00:49:14]:
yeah, go ahead. Sorry, I, I think it's an example, kind of like, you know, it's not, not much different than a collision shop's responsibility and how they glue a car back together sometimes. I mean, look what happened with that lawsuit with the family that was in a car. They used the wrong glue. Yeah, when they hit the something, the car came apart incorrectly. I mean, look at that.
Jeff Compton [00:49:37]:
Like, yeah. And now, and it's funny to me because we, we see some of these things, like we were talking about Tesla before we got on here, and like Tesla's really talked about a lot now because a lot of their features in the car are just strictly subscription-based, you know what I mean? And I can understand more the OEs of not wanting to give a tool supplier the ability to turn them on and off without, you know— but I mean, let's be real, the other side of me is like, if that car can function that way when it was designed and built, it should stay that way until whatever, the heated seat element breaks, you know. If I want to have access to be able to go in and turn it on for my customer, I should be able to go in and turn it on for my customer. You know, it's just a simple— to me, it's just a flash. That's all I'm doing, right? I'm, I'm essentially changing a file. The idea that, that they think, you know, everything is secure— no, they are trying to keep everything where they, they control it all. And that's what I don't like. I do understand the security side of it, but the idea that it's like, we're not going to allow Launch to turn on some features in a car because, you know, the way they want it done is you pay the mothership a subscription every month for heated seats.
Jeff Compton [00:50:53]:
To me, that's just daft, and it's complete BS. You know, if it's there and the tooling is there to turn it on, let them turn it on. Yeah, you know, it's just— but how much money do they want, I guess, is, you know, the crazy thing to me. I just, I never understood that, and it Again, people are— we're all probably not as— what's the word I'm thinking of— as we're not as smart with our security of our information as we should be. You know, it's like the same thing, don't go on TikTok, they're stealing your data. Well, everybody's already stealing my data anyway, right? Like, I'm putting that platform out there, I kind of have to. Um, it's just absurd to me because it's like, you want to know how many times I went to McDonald's this week? Like, okay, I just call up and ask, I can tell you. You know, the fact that it's tracking all that and selling that information, or could be, could be, you know.
Jeff Compton [00:51:45]:
And that's where all the supposed, you know, real money is supposed to be made eventually. I don't know, we're going down a wormhole here. It's just absurd to me because it's like, is it really going to make a whole lot of difference? No. You know, the idea is let's keep these cars safe and keep them secure for people. You know, I don't want to see somebody— the big joke was up here in Toronto, because in Canada we're not— we're all unarmed, right? So That's what they think. And the big joke was, is like when people were starting to steal some of the really high-end cars, the stuff that can't be hacked, they were just kicking your front door in and they were stealing your keys. You know, they were, they were doing that. And it made the real argument that it's like, you know, well, a scan tool would have stole that.
Jeff Compton [00:52:36]:
Not that car. No, not yet anyway. And here's the reality, they just might kick the door in anyway. But the idea that it's like we should just throw it all away because somebody could just kick the door in and let the car— to me, it's just absurd. It's crazy when people are like, we have a responsibility to keep these cars reasonably when they're sold, secure for the person that's paying the note on them. And there's always going to be bad elements, and that's unavoidable, unfortunately. It's human nature. But the idea that everybody just thinks it should be the Wild Wild West to me is just crazy.
Jeff Compton [00:53:10]:
You know, it's nuts. What, um, so let me think here. What is the— what's the coolest part of your day when you, when you get to— like, what's the coolest thing that you love to do about these tools? Like, I know that's kind of a wide question, but, you know, it's—
Eric Pagliughi [00:53:29]:
it's— I, I, I, I, I know right what it is, dude. It's— I think it's the coolest part about what we do is the relationships we have with our technicians and our shops and seeing it come to fruition. Yeah, seeing, seeing the request or the idea or, you know, then that, that, that satisfaction from our customers in, wow, I just, I got something that I— you, you hit the nail on the head, right? You really got that software right. Like, we, we spent spent probably 3 years developing the multi-module stuff, and it took multiple revisions of our VCI to make that happen. And when— now that it works and it's awesome, it— that, that like final feeling of watching the shops— like, I walk into a shop and it's almost like I'm using it as my sales pitch now, right? For our sales team, it's like, hey, if you had an elevator pitch, this is what you want to talk about, kind of thing, right? And I think my favorite part about this job is the people we get to meet and deal with, the shows we go to, and, and watching the feedback actually turn into something from a street level, right? Not an executive level, from a street level. From technician A says, this would— I need this to work. And then when you do it, you realize across the country every technician in the country loved the idea., right? Like, that's, that's one of my favorite parts of this, this job for sure.
Jeff Compton [00:55:04]:
Yeah, I think it's, it's one of those things where it's like we're— and, you know, as somebody that's been, you know, dealer and aftermarket back and forth my whole career, it's not an us versus them kind of thing, right? But it's so much the— I can remember, you know, when it was like we didn't have a misfire monitor for Ford on a lot of aftermarket tools, right? And then all of a sudden comes along and it— everybody's like, oh my God, why did that take so long to get there? Well, unfortunately You know, they— it's an OE thing. And, you know, was there other ways to get misfire information? Yeah, there was. It was always called Mode 6, right? But we didn't know how to— a lot of technicians didn't get the training on how to do it. And I can remember taking courses and lessons way back when on how to go and find Mode 6 data because, you know, my little tool wouldn't give me a misfire monitor. Like, it wouldn't count it. You know, if I had a code, sure, but you could feel it missing. It was like Now with everything being so much more available, it's, it hasn't gotten easier. It's gotten more difficult in the sense that it's like sometimes it's a sensory overload.
Jeff Compton [00:56:10]:
Like there's so many pids and so much data now that going back to training, it's like if you haven't had training, it becomes overwhelming to look at it and go like, what the heck is, what do I really look at, you know? And then it comes back to your process again of of understanding, you know, what to look at and whatnot. And sometimes that's, you know, we always say the worst thing than having no data is having inaccurate data. We used to say that all the time too, right? Like, or service information that's not accurate. Like, you're better to not have it at all. It just, it just slays you. I, um, I can remember so many things you know, about what the OE tool would do. And even like, I use the OE tool for a long, long time, but there was still things that on my last year I was still learning what that tool would do, you know. And I think that's for all of us now with, with even in the aftermarket.
Jeff Compton [00:57:05]:
Like, I still pick up a tool and all of a sudden I'm going, I'm like, I wonder if that was always there or not, you know what I mean? Or did the last update add something? Like, when you guys— I've always thought, you know, what would be really cool is when you get an update, if it almost gave you like a little video of saying, okay, so here's your launch tool for this month. Here's some new things that have come along, and then like a little video that would walk you, you know, that would be brilliant.
Eric Pagliughi [00:57:29]:
That would be brilliant for a tool. I'm laughing because I need— we have— we hired a person to do exactly that, literally exactly that. Those little tech tips, tech tips where what, what, what we envision is you click the update button and there'll be a little quick tutorial on what it was that what improved at that point, right? Yeah, there's a lot of bug fixes, and yeah, there's a lot of stuff, but we average 800, 900 updates a year during your subscription, right? And in that, you have 70% of it's actually functions that are on your tool now that you don't know, right? You have no idea. So we're putting a lot of effort into that quick little tech tip video, even in, even in functions where technicians, and I don't know, this isn't everyone, but with all the information that is built into the tool with Motor and, and, and Identifix and all these other companies, they, there's still procedures that aren't read. Yeah. They don't push the buttons and read. Like my tech guys, when they get calls and they're, and they're like, hey, how do I do this? Or this isn't working. You know what my guys do? They go into the tool, they go in the motor, they snapshot this procedure, and they text it to the guy.
Eric Pagliughi [00:58:49]:
And, and they're like, oh, okay. And, and then they say, you know, that's in your tool, and they show them where it is. Like, you, you could answer your own question with the information at your fingertips, but you're just not doing it because you want that quick. And that's where all this AI stuff starts to play in, where it's like everyone's trying to hit that fast, easy, quick tip and Man, it's frustrating, but you know, I'm not going to introduce it until we can make it make sense. Yeah, like we have it, but it's just, I, I don't care to talk to my scan tool. I don't care about that. I don't, I, you know, I want to be able to upload, upload a recording from a vehicle and have it maybe pick out some PIDs that I should pay attention to.
Jeff Compton [00:59:28]:
Yeah, you know, my local radio station yesterday just talked about there was a real discussion going on about with ChatGPT and AI coming along, if we're going to destroy our own ability to even remember everything, anything at all, because it's like if I just ask ChatGPT and it answers, right? And then I go on to my next thing, I'm not putting that back in my memory bank, right? Because I didn't spend the time necessarily. Like, we're old enough to remember having to go, go get the encyclopedia or go get, you know, motor manual and flip through the pages and like that time spent trying to find it and then bookmarking it or whatever. That stays in your brain. But now I'm really scared because like, I don't use chat or AI. I could. Parts of my, my platform use it. But like, I'm— it scares me to think that it's like these technicians are going to be asking the same questions multiple times to ChatGPT because we're not, we're not remembering it. There was an interesting conversation that came up.
Jeff Compton [01:00:26]:
I just saw it an hour or so ago and somebody was talking about what kind of scan tools. And they named off some names. They're like, I don't want to buy these because I don't like the idea of features going away. Eric, I'll ask you straight up, is that something that people need to be worried about? Or I want to feel that that's like just carryover from like you were talking about '23 when some things were just shut off.
Eric Pagliughi [01:00:49]:
With launch specifically or in general?
Jeff Compton [01:00:52]:
With launch, yes. Absolutely not.
Eric Pagliughi [01:00:54]:
That's right. Okay, I can tell— I can— that I can say with confidence. And there's a re— and the reason is, for probably the past 45 minutes of our conversation, was when you do things the right way and you follow the procedures and you have the good handshakes with the OEs, they don't take it away from you, right? You're not on the radar. Yeah, I haven't had to take anything out of my software in the past 10 years that I've been at this company. Nothing. Yeah, the only thing we've had to do is modify the structure of key software, but we never lost a thing. I've never had to put a disclaimer or a letter out to them, to the world, saying, um, when you update your tool, this is going to happen. Yeah, I, I pride myself to make sure that that doesn't happen at this company.
Jeff Compton [01:01:45]:
That's, that's a fact for sure. That's, that's good to know because, I mean, you know, like, I— and again, like, my, my background is with, with the Snap-on tools, so I can't ever remember saying Oh yeah, I lost this function, you know, again, because you won't there either. Yeah, because of the relationship they'd had. But I do know lots of people that had some other tools and are like, well, it's just a paperweight now. Like, a bunch of this stuff, you know, I did an update and all of a sudden I lost, you know, these 10 really cool things that the tool used to be able to do.
Eric Pagliughi [01:02:17]:
And, and yeah, I understand people— it's called market disruption, my friend. Yeah, it's, it's hit it hard until we can't anymore, and hopefully we, we build a name around it. And that's—
Jeff Compton [01:02:27]:
that, that is not a good strategy for business. No. And I want to think that a lot of those features have shown up somewhere else in the, in the market. It's just unfortunately, like, you know, you had to buy them and you didn't— you got them for free before and now you have to pay for them. I just— I'm, I'm torn because I understand how hard it is in this industry right now. The margins are so thin and You know, there's more and more technicians that are buying their own scan tool even though there's a shop tool. They're buying their own tool. And I understand why they do it.
Jeff Compton [01:02:55]:
And some people like, that's just crazy. They shouldn't have to. I, as I've been a technician for 30 years and 5 years ago I worked in a shop where I had to buy my own tool because they weren't— they were tasking me with fixing cars that they didn't have tooling to do. Yep. So instead of having the argument and it's like, you know, I just went and bought the damn tool.. And I've always done that in my career. So it's not like I resent it. It's been a great investment for me.
Jeff Compton [01:03:23]:
What makes me a little bit better than a lot of the other, my competition in the hiring class in my area is the fact that I come tooled. But the idea that it's like everybody then wants to drive the price of this stuff down and down and down. So to me, it's just like, there's going to be compromises made, and unfortunately we can't do that, you know?
Eric Pagliughi [01:03:49]:
Like, it has to—
Jeff Compton [01:03:49]:
why race to the bottom, my friend? Yeah, why do we, why do we need to charge for a lot more of the stuff we do? Because like, how many cars now do— when you put a headlight bulb in, do you have to go and clear DTC so the bulb turns back on?
Eric Pagliughi [01:04:01]:
Do ADAS calibrations and this and that. You take a bumper off, you're doing—
Jeff Compton [01:04:05]:
oh, it's crazy, you know? And I mean, like, I have a— I mean, I like it, but there's— it slows down my process because I even have to look. I did a— I did a rad in a 2018 Durango the other day, and I had to look before I could even quote the job. How's it configured for ADAS? Is it or not? Because it's gonna— this one's not configured at all. There's nothing there. So that's good. It's an easy rip, done. Yeah, but I mean, it's— people are like, wow, you're charging a lot to do that job. Yes, because if I don't have 'ADAS capability at my shop.' Or here's the other thing, if I feel like I tell them that it should be but the customer doesn't know, it doesn't care, my advisor doesn't make it aware of what's really going on, I may try and work around, you know, I might not— I may leave the bumper in place so I don't disturb it.
Jeff Compton [01:04:55]:
So because, well, that's going to take a lot longer, you know, and I'm doing it for then a different reason. Like, we have to have more and more of these conversations where it's like This is what's really truly happening with the car, and this is why it's taking so much longer and costing so much more to do. We just need to be more transparent, like, and, and have much more effective communication of what's actually going on technology-wise. Not that the customer cares from that, but we have to be like, we're protecting your safety and we're protecting your, your security and your data and all this kind of stuff. This is why it costs, you know, I can't walk out with a $10 code reader. Hook to my phone and diagnose your car anymore, right?
Eric Pagliughi [01:05:34]:
Like, it's— yeah, you would care as a shop owner or a technician if the car you ripped the bumper off of and put it back on and had the angle of the radar incorrect, and it, you know, it didn't pace a car correctly, or it didn't brake correctly. And, you know, now you're going back to an insurance company that they're going to start saying, okay, where was this, or where was the last place this car was worked on? Where— who did this repair? And then they're going to go back and look, did you do the ADAS calibration? Can you show me paperwork that you did the calibration? You know, we, we— there's just so much liability risk out there to not have the information. And, and that's, you know, part of the— part of that is like, man, we really need to— if AI is going to do anything for us, hopefully why we do these functions and these jobs, AI might catch and say, hey, listen, you might want to do this, this, and this while you're doing this job, or, or this is what you got to look forward to. Like, you know, some of these technicians and technical guys that we have You know, you do a job and they're like, hey, you build the job, but you might want to buy that connector and that hose you're going to rip and that bolt you're going to break and this one, you know, like that kind of stuff, right? That, that carnal knowledge is always great in, in, in, in like high volume shops that see everything. But to your point, it's just not there. And some of these shops take a job and they get, they get their ass handed to them because because they quoted it too low and then it's an argument to try to get it where it needs to be after the fact.
Jeff Compton [01:07:03]:
Yeah, that's the part that I had a conversation about TPMS, right? And then of course on my platform it all blows up because I didn't even call it TPMS. I just called it about people disabling certain safety systems on a car. Okay. You know, and you know, you had so many conversations of so many people piping up going, listen, like if the customer's in charge, if they, If they want that light on, god darn it, they're getting that light on, you know. My god, like, I would just rather pay the $25 for the universal TPMS and, you know, eat that. Yeah. And do the job right. And I sleep at night knowing instead of having them say, well, you know, this TPMS sensor, when we tried to repair the flat, you know, the valve stem broke, the core broke off, and now we're stuck here, you know.
Jeff Compton [01:07:53]:
And now I don't want to put a $25 sensor in. Okay, I'm putting a rubber, rubber stem in. Like, to me, it's not even a conversation to have, right? I'm just gonna go and put it in the car, and I'm gonna put it on the bill, and they fight with me, I'm gonna eat it, and it's gonna leave the way it came in, working, right? I like that idea. There's so many things now in this industry where we're walking this line of like, well, my customer doesn't want it, my customer doesn't want it. A lot of customers don't want it because we haven't even explained to them what we're what really has to be done here, you know? And that's, that's where, you know, really makes me kind of like, how do I navigate the next 10 years of my career, you know? Is because I believe that the customers want the car to work the way it worked when they bought it, you know? So, but now it becomes a much more involved conversation, you know? And I think where we're really failing, Eric, is— and it's— we're going off on a completely different road here. Yeah, is, is it's a different type of person now to communicate to the customer what's really needed to service the car. You know, it's not just a, you know, you got a brake squeak and brakes are, you know, $650 approximately for this Chevy truck. You know, I can have the parts over here in 20 minutes.
Jeff Compton [01:09:10]:
Do you want to do it, yes or no? Now there's so many more things with like electronic parking brake and all this adaptive stuff that we need to be saying This is why it costs $650, you know. It's not $120 anymore. Yeah, what's involved? Well, I have to hook a scan tool up to enable to get your parking brake because I don't want it to leave with the parking brake light on. Brakes work fine because it didn't come in with the parking brake on. Everybody's like, well, it's okay. Like, that just stresses me right out. It just drives me crazy anymore, you know. We want to be professional and people just, uh They want us to be professional too until it's like we fail to explain the cost, and then all of a sudden we look unprofessional and they just don't want to spend any more cost.
Jeff Compton [01:09:58]:
And I don't know how to navigate that going forward. What, um, the tool behind you, what's that?
Eric Pagliughi [01:10:04]:
Which one? Oh, that's our Throttle 5. That's our flagship. That's our 13-inch. That's the one I was telling you about that has all the, uh Yeah, very cool.
Jeff Compton [01:10:14]:
They're all over the office. I think I saw, um, Sherwood at Royalty Today using that tool on a, on a car he was working on, a Fiat.
Eric Pagliughi [01:10:23]:
So yeah, yeah, he's got them. We, you know, we sent some to him. We, uh, got Check Engine Chuck, I, I sent some to him. Right on. And Wright's going to be using some stuff here soon. And very cool. Yeah, yeah, anybody, any of the influencers that that, you know, want to have a conversation and, you know, try some stuff out, we're willing to work with them this year.
Jeff Compton [01:10:46]:
Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, I would love to put some miles on one, try it out and see what it'll do, you know.
Eric Pagliughi [01:10:51]:
Yeah, it's a— it's been a great— it's been great, you know, watching. And it— to me, it doesn't matter what they're doing. It's just in general, the, the knowledge that they're bringing to the, to the, to the, the customer base or the technicians out there has just been priceless., I commend them for spending the time that they have to spend to get those videos done. You think, you think it's easy and it's just, it's really not. And they really spend a lot of time and they, they, they do care. You can tell they care, you know, and I love working with them. So hopefully I get to work with more of them.
Jeff Compton [01:11:22]:
It's just a matter of, you know, getting a hold of them and, and all those names, all those names you mentioned, I, I'm very fortunate. I'm blessed to be able to call them friends and I've met them all in person and, and, you know, shared lots of conversations with them, and like, they are 100% legit in what they say in the sense that they, they're just trying to do everything for this that they can for this industry. And it is a big— it's a big, big, big commitment. It really is. Because it's like, you know, people go, well, why don't you do any kind of like hands-on how to fix stuff videos? And I'm like, it's enough with this platform of just having these conversations that I just don't have the time in the end of the week, you know, to You know, and, and at the job I'm at, it's, it's already gone so fast that I don't have time to like back up, stage the car, do the, you know, the case study and, and ship it. It's already like promised and gone. I don't have— I don't get a chance to get that car back, you know. So it's— I wish I did.
Jeff Compton [01:12:19]:
I'm jealous of like Chuck because every day is rolling into a new thing that can be like pay him for fixing it, but he can also shoot a really cool, hey, look at this kind of video, right? And Chris, the same thing. Like, he's getting into more and more, and I talk to that guy all the time too. And it's just like, that's been the beauty of the online thing for me. And I know it gets toxic sometimes, and— but like, I'm so blessed to have been able to meet all those guys, you know, and, and share with them just what I'm trying to do, and, and to feel that passion come back because they want to do the same thing, right? Like, they don't want to see technicians be regarded as, you know, uneducated and unreliable and shifty. They want them to be seen as the professionals that they are. And, you know, I'm very fortunate. I'm good. I'm in good company, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
Eric Pagliughi [01:13:12]:
So yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's been, it's been nice meeting everyone and getting to know everyone this year. We know we had a— we met some of them at SEMA and Apex. They came up at Apex and, you know, we showed them some things. You know, Sherwood and Royalty. They just— they walked up to the booth, we showed them some stuff, we were— they were like, wow, that's some really cool— you know, I showed them the multi-module stuff and that really caught his eye. And that's how the relationship started, because it was one of those moments where it's like, wow, I, I— that's cool, I need something different like that. So yeah, and it's been— and we learn from each other, I'm sure.
Eric Pagliughi [01:13:44]:
You know, I, I'll send stuff to them and, you know, we're confident with the product now. And, and not only am I confident in the product. I'm confident in the fact that even if they find something that they have some constructive criticism on, we're fast. We can make changes fast to make it right. So that, and that I think is more important than being worried about something not being right or function not being the way it needs to be. I'm not scared of that at all. We're not. We don't have that culture here.
Eric Pagliughi [01:14:20]:
We accept the criticism, we accept the feedback, and that's how we become better. And that, that has been such a great mentality to have here rather than be so defensive. Like, I could tell you 5 years ago, all we did is care about what everybody else was doing. Yeah. And that stopped over the past few years.
Jeff Compton [01:14:42]:
Now I don't care what they're doing. It's kind of a powerful mindset, isn't it? Like, it's really cool. It's almost like— because I know in the same thing, like I joked at the beginning, like a year ago it seemed like all these other podcasts were popping up and I was like, crap. And now I'm just like, oh, that's right on, that's cool, they're doing a podcast and they're doing a podcast because it's like everybody, like I'm enjoying their stuff and then my, my engagement is not dropping off, it's continuing to go up and up and up and up, right? So what I've learned is like just support everybody, you know, like all, all the time, raise all ships, right?
Eric Pagliughi [01:15:19]:
So it's like We're a humble group and Snap-on did something cool with their software the other day and I was like, good job guys. Like that was pretty awesome. Like that was really cool thing that they did, right? With some functions, things that they did. And I, hey, there's room for all of us. It's just, I stopped, I really stopped caring when someone says, oh, they're doing this. I'm like, okay, good. You know, give me some feedback. Let's see what we can do to make it even better.
Eric Pagliughi [01:15:44]:
Who knows?
Jeff Compton [01:15:45]:
You know, you just don't know. Yeah, and I think it's all, you know, everybody's kind of doing everything similar anyway, you know what I mean? So it's like the technology's out there. Yep. You know, you're all a bunch of smart guys. You're gonna figure out how they did it, you know, you're gonna— and then decide, is it worth for us to put that in? You know what I mean? Like, it goes back to that thing, what are you familiar with? Well, like, you know, and it's the same thing, like, when I look at a diagnostic process in the shop No two technicians do exactly the same. Like, Brian Pollock and I had a great conversation where we're watching a video from a guy and we're like— I showed him a video and it was, it was an older video. He's like, because I said I wouldn't have honestly gone down that road that way. And he watches the video, he's like, yeah, I see what you mean.
Jeff Compton [01:16:28]:
He says, I wouldn't have got there either. He said it was cool, it was a neat way to come about, but he's like, I wouldn't have done that. So that's what's so neat is I watch somebody do something and I'm like I'm like, that's neat. And then I come away with it going, I still like my process though, you know, like, and, and that's where we all just have to— yeah, there's enough room in this industry right now for all of it.
Eric Pagliughi [01:16:52]:
And there's a lot of us, but like I said, we, we feed, we feed off of, of our main focus. And I, and I, and I can't, I can't stress this enough to my team is pay attention to the technicians and the shop owners. Pay attention to the feedback. Don't worry about what anybody else is doing. Let's just pay attention to the, to the, to the, our, our clients that are fixing cars. They know better than anyone, yeah, what is needed in this, in this industry, right? And that has been probably one of my biggest wins as the leader of the team at launch, is just pay more attention to the end users and the technicians.
Jeff Compton [01:17:35]:
Can you— and I won't keep you much longer, Eric, I appreciate you being here— but is there— can you give us a little, like, what do you—
Eric Pagliughi [01:17:41]:
what's exciting you about the next things that are coming along? You know, we dipped into the alignment world and we developed this product where, you know, we were walking in the shops and And part of our job is to walk in the shops and figure out what roadblocks, what do they need, what aren't they able to do. And, and we were, we were walking into a lot of shops across the country, and I'd walk in and the first thing that I noticed when I walk into a shop is I look for an alignment machine, right? And, and it's funny, I asked a few questions and I learned so much. You know, I learned 3 things, and, and 3 things resonated back with all the feedback that we got from all these shops that we walked into. And, and it's like, hey, Mr. Customer, why don't you have an aligner? And we've learned 3 things: budget, space, yeah, and high volume were the 3 big ones that resonated. Meaning budget was just— it just wasn't there. I can't spend $50,000 and buy a, a, an alignment lift. I just don't have the budget.
Eric Pagliughi [01:18:50]:
Budget, right? The second thing was space. They're in these shops where they used to be, you know, gas stations, and they just don't have the depth to put the console in there. And then the third one was, oh, we have an aligner, but we're so busy, we can't get all of them done in a day. We need, we need a second solution, right? So we got back to the drawing board a little bit, and we started looking at some technologies. And this is that perfect example of some stuff that we had that we didn't know what to do with, right? So we started looking at some of these, uh, you know, we have, we have a— there's a touchless version, there's a lot of stuff that we were working on. So we brought this 613 to fruition, which, you know, it's got 4 tire clamps, 4 wheel clamps, and it's got these 2 heads that magnetically stick to the side of the lift. So it takes up no geo— geographic space more than a lift right? And you use your, your tablet, your scan tool tablet, to run the software for the alignment machine. Wow.
Eric Pagliughi [01:19:47]:
Yeah. So now we're doing alignments. You're buying— you're in the alignment business for less than $15,000, and you have a fully functioning scan tool with it. Yeah. So that's been exciting, and that's, that's actually has taken off for us this past year. It's been our, our key product right now that has really gained some traction. That's very cool. Yeah, that's been the most exciting thing this year so far that we've done.
Eric Pagliughi [01:20:13]:
We've got— we have some— we're working on some cool stuff, but that's been the big one right now.
Jeff Compton [01:20:17]:
So what do you like to do when you step away from, from, from the office?
Eric Pagliughi [01:20:23]:
Like, is it all still cars? Is your passion? I drag race. I run, I run 10.5 Outlaw. Nice. Yeah, yeah. We're gonna run some PDRA stuff and we're gonna do some stuff in Cecil County down in Maryland.
Jeff Compton [01:20:39]:
Wow, stuff. Yep. New Jersey's always been a hotbed for drag racing though, eh? Like always. Yeah, good for you, man. Very cool. I would have not—
Eric Pagliughi [01:20:49]:
I wouldn't have guessed that. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Jeff Compton [01:20:51]:
We're—
Eric Pagliughi [01:20:51]:
yeah, I've been doing it since I was a kid. Now we're right on.
Jeff Compton [01:20:55]:
Now we have a big program, so yeah.
Eric Pagliughi [01:21:01]:
And 10.5 outlaw, that's, yeah. What's the car run? Low force. You know, we're shooting for 390s, 380s hopefully this season if we can get it to work. We just, you know, we have big power, but we're just working on a 10.5 tire. That's the key to that program is you gotta make that tire work. If you can make that tire work, you can get down. What kind of car is it? It's a Ford Lightning.
Jeff Compton [01:21:24]:
It looks like a Ford Lightning basically. Okay. Yeah.
Eric Pagliughi [01:21:27]:
Still running a Ford mill under the hood? No, no, it's a Sonny's— it's a Sonny Leonard engine, uh, big block Chevy with Hemi, you know, Hemi head. Yeah, yeah, they call them big Hemi-headed Chevy. Yeah, nice. Twin turbo, twin 94 turbos, 5-inch bore space.
Jeff Compton [01:21:48]:
It's like a 600 and probably 60-some cubic Yeah, it's expensive, Avi. It is.
Eric Pagliughi [01:21:58]:
But sure, if you've done it that long, you kind of know how it is. It took a lot. It took— like, listen, it took a long— it took me 6 years to build that thing. So yeah. Wow, very cool. I'm not one of those guys that can build it in 40 days.
Jeff Compton [01:22:11]:
It doesn't— no. Yeah, and you know, we used to all see Street Outlaws, right? And you used to see some of that stuff, and I know some of it was for editing and entertainment, but I mean, like I never knew, because I've grown up around hot rodders and stuff, but I never knew the dedication to that, that those— until I started watching that TV show. Like, you know, people talked about it, but you didn't really realize some of them never slept. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, they did their day job. Yep. And then they just washed their hands and they went, you know, to the night job, and then they washed their hands and they went to the day job. Like, they didn't sleep.
Eric Pagliughi [01:22:45]:
It was crazy. Yeah, you know, that's, that's— it's been a crazy—
Jeff Compton [01:22:48]:
what that show has woken up so many things with that, that industry, for sure. Yeah, it's— I like to see it come back. It was kind of neat, you know, like absolutely ridiculous money. Like, I can't— yeah, you know, um, when I think about like the kind of boat that I could buy because I'm a fisherman, but I mean, I do respect that, that, um that hustle and that uber-focused on such, you know, we're talking tenths of a second, you know what I mean? That's just the coolest thing to me. And the way their brains work, you know, never satisfied. It's pretty neat. So I won't keep you. I wanted to thank you for being here, but I appreciate it.
Jeff Compton [01:23:29]:
I had fun. Yeah, I'm really excited about this partnership we've got going forward. I think it's going to be really neat. I'm interested in, you know, seeing what the tool will do and getting more exposure for it. Because like I, like I said, it's— I've always known about the product, but I didn't get a lot of exposure to it.
Eric Pagliughi [01:23:46]:
What's the best place to buy one? I mean, right now you can go on our website. We just opened up our website, so now everything's on the website. There are firms on the website. You can, you can do financing. Uh, we have our partners through, you know, different— all the, all the tool vendors, all the tool trucks. WDs like ISN and stuff like that. The parts stores are selling our stuff now. Yeah, the, the influencers we're working with, they have, you know, uh, you know, couponing and stuff like that.
Eric Pagliughi [01:24:15]:
They could do, you know, discount coupons through their videos and stuff like that. So there's a lot of different outlets now. We, we're venturing out a little bit more this year. We opened up the website, which we never had. We never did that before. So now you can go right to our website and For sure.
Jeff Compton [01:24:31]:
Very cool. So that's everybody. If you need to know anything about Launch, get a hold of Eric or get a hold of me and I'll get you through to Eric. You know, I can't, I can't answer any of the technical questions yet, but I mean, you know, from what I've seen of the tool and I got to play with it just a little bit at SEMA, it's, it's pretty amazing what it'll do. You know, um, there's some things about it that are very familiar to a lot of people, and then there's some really cool stuff like he said, the ability to look at different, you know, modules all at the same time. That's groundbreaking stuff. So, uh, Eric, thank you for being here tonight, man. I really appreciate it.
Jeff Compton [01:25:04]:
We'd like to have you back again, obviously, when we— you know, yeah, we'll do a little show and tell maybe with the tools. And, you know, um, everybody keep an eye out for launch. You're gonna see them in the hands of a lot more of the people out there on the content side. And, uh, you know, if you've got a chance to try one out as a demo unit, take one. You know, and give it a whirl, give it an honest breakdown, because I think you're going to be really surprised with where they're headed. I think that this company is really about, you know, empowering the technician. I know everybody says that, but I think like Eric is really— he really is listening to what you guys want from a tool. And I think that's the number one thing right now is we have to have that communication.
Jeff Compton [01:25:49]:
So absolutely. Thank you. Thank you, guys.
Eric Pagliughi [01:25:51]:
We'll talk to everybody soon.
Jeff Compton [01:25:55]:
I appreciate it. Yeah, see ya. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on, and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASAR Group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say: in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10mm, and we'll see you all again next time.