Katara McCarty How to Grow Without Burning the Soil

What does it take to grow something without burning the soil it grows in? Katara McCarty arrives at the Highland in the second episode of Season 2 with an answer shaped by both her flourishing and her depletion.

Katara McCarty is the founder and CEO of Exhale, an award-winning, inclusive well-being app and resource that centers the mental health and well-being of Black women. She also leads Exhale Cares, advancing mental health equity through advocacy, education, and research. Her honors include first place in the NBA Foundation All-Star Pitch and a Webby Award. She is an inaugural Highland Leader and now a coach to many leaders across the Highland.

In this conversation, Katara arrives slow and gentle, practicing a pace that does not shove her through the day. She names her lineage: daughter of Betty Waters, who opened her home to a foster baby in 1972, daughter of Mary Waters-Smith, daughter of Nellie Waters, daughter of community and collective care. She places a seed on the altar, a slower, more intentional pace of leadership that does not require depletion to prove impact. She reflects on what the Highland helped her remember about legacy, that it is not only what you leave behind but what you seed forward to flourish seven generations from now. She tells the truth about eighteen years as a pastor and nonprofit leader, holding space for everyone while few held space for her, and about the day in 2016 she landed on her bathroom floor, emptied, asking where to go from here, and the coach who told her to pour back into herself and to grieve. She offers the line that names the whole season: you can grow things, but you do not have to burn the soil. Gabrielle mirrors it back as wholeness, rest integrated with purpose rather than sacrificed to it, and names the difference between care as branding and care as a practice that actually holds us. Katara describes what Exhale really offers, not new care but remembered care, spaces that guide us home to ourselves. She names the vision she will not trade, I see us well, well resourced, well rested. She names what the systems do, deplete and extract, and frames rest and prioritization as refusal. And she closes with the mad lib that holds the arc in two lines: because of them, I can exhale, and because of me, they can exhale.

If Season Two of Meet Me at the Highland™ is an invitation to seed, then Katara McCarty tends the question of what the soil requires. Before the planting, the conditions. Before the harvest, the rest. Seed yourself first. Let this episode be a remembering that there is nothing wrong with us, that we are deserving of our own care, and that we can build a different way.

Connect with Katara
Website: exhale-app.com
Exhale Cares: exhalecares.com
Instagram: @kataramccarty
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kataramccarty

Connect with Meet Me at the Highland™
Full episode and companion content: meetmeatthehighland.substack.com
The Legacy Studio: https://meetmeatthehighland.place/
Instagram: @meetmeatthehighland
YouTube: @MeetMeatTheHighland

• (00:00) - Intro
• (02:23) - Arriving Slow and Gentle
• (03:56) - Lineage Daughter Of
• (06:38) - Seeding Slower Leadership
• (09:35) - Legacy Seven Generations
• (13:33) - Depletion and Turning Point
• (16:33) - Bathroom Floor Breakthrough
• (21:55) - Grow Without Burning
• (27:25) - Relearning Rest from Grandma
• (30:51) - Rest Fuels Creativity
• (34:25) - Care as Practice Now
• (36:11) - Pandemic Spark for Exhale
• (39:31) - Building Exhale From Frustration
• (43:08) - Wellness Spaces And Harm
• (46:05) - Remembered Care And Mirroring
• (48:41) - What Is Yours To Carry
• (54:33) - Discernment And Saying No
• (01:01:42) - Protecting The Seven Generation Vision
• (01:03:16) - Breath As Daily Resistance
• (01:07:32) - Support The Movement
• (01:13:35) - Mad Libs And Gratitude
• (01:16:03) - Closing Celebration And Farewell

Creators and Guests

Host

Gabrielle Wyatt

Creator and Host of Meet Me at the Highland™

Guest

Katara McCarty

Founder of Exhale

What is Meet Me at the Highland™?

Meet Me at the Highland™ is a podcast and sacred space centering Black women's leadership, imagination, and legacy. Hosted by Gabrielle Wyatt, founder of The Highland Project, it offers intimate, intergenerational conversations with changemakers, artists, and cultural architects reimagining what it means to thrive. It's a rhythm of rest, reflection, and radical dreaming, where we remember who we are, reclaim our joy, and begin again.

Season Two, Seeding, is unfolding now, with Highland Leaders like Brittany Packnett Cunningham, Dr. Topeka K. Sam, and Brea Baker. Each episode arrives with a love letter, journaling prompts, and reflections that invite deeper introspection.

This is your invitation. To lead. To rest. To imagine forward. To meet us at the Highland.

meetmeatthehighland.substack.com

Episode 2: Katara McCarty: How to Grow Without Burning the Soil
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Intro
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Welcome to Highland
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[00:00:00] ​ [00:01:00] ​

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Gabrielle Wyatt: Katara, welcome back to the Highland, the place where we pause, where we gather, not at a peak [00:02:00] where only one can sit, but at a plateau at the top of the mountain where many can gather to look back, to reflect, to remember how far we've come, to celebrate the legacy and joy of Black women leaders. I'm honored to be back with you at the Highland.

Welcome. How are you doing? How are you arriving today?

Arriving Slow and Gentle
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Katara McCarty: Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I am feeling... It's really exciting to be in conversation with you today. I always look forward to our time together. Um, and I am arriving slow and gentle with myself. I've been practicing that, moving a little bit slower, being more gentle on myself.

So that's a n- that's new for me, 'cause I'm usually, um, kind of standing behind myself, cracking the whip of like... Or almost like the metaphor of like standing behind myself, [00:03:00] shoving myself into my day, into my projects, into my to-do list. And I've been practicing getting in front of myself and just saying, "Let's move this way, and let's move a little bit slower."

So I'm entering gentle and slow.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm.

Katara McCarty: And thank you for having me.

Gabrielle Wyatt: You're welcome. And, um, it's so beautiful what you shared, particularly in this season of 2026, a season where you and I both are founders or we're both entrepreneurs, and we know, um, the speed in which the mainstream expects us to operate, and that we frankly have had to operate in for survival, for realizing our dreams.

And I think it's courageous not only to name trying to move more slowly, but also to follow that with action. And we're gonna dig a lot into that today as we mirror back to you your legacy.

Lineage Daughter Of
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Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm. But before I get too far, I want to [00:04:00] begin in true Highland form in a way that you're really used to responding in.

And listeners, if you're joining us for the first time, our sister, Vanessa Garrison, a co-founder of GirlTrek, introduced this ritual to us to support us in seeing ourselves and seeing one another, and I think most importantly, remembering that we didn't have to make a way out of no way as Black women, that none of us have arrived here alone.

And so Katara, when you're ready, I ask you, who are you the daughter of? Hmm.

Katara McCarty: When you ask that question, I get so emotional because, um, I am the daughter of Betty Waters, um, who so graciously opened [00:05:00] the doors of her h- of her home in 1972 to a foster baby, which was me. Um, so I just hold so much gratitude and so much, um, love for her, and that I am the daughter of Betty Waters, who is the daughter of Mary Waters Smith, who is the daughter of Nellie Waters.

I'm also the daughter of community The daughter of collective care. That's who I'm the daughter of.

Gabrielle Wyatt: I, um, felt that pause with you. Um, I felt that tingling of arm hair, um, and the tear in my eye too of that inner knowing of who holds you and keeps holding [00:06:00] you. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that's beautiful and incredibly special, and I'm grateful for Betty.

Um, and I'm grateful for the, um, how inextricably linked in your personhood community is- Yeah ... and belonging is, and I think that those roads lead back to Betty, um, and something bigger than us. That's right. And so, you know, in that vein, as we begin today, it always feels like a sacred homecoming when we come together in twos, threes, and more at the High Land.

Seeding Slower Leadership
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Gabrielle Wyatt: And so I'm curious, as you think about the lineage you just named, is there a seed of your lineage that you wanna place on our altar, that you wanna place on the High Land as we begin this conversation? It might be an intention, a word, a prayer, a name, a song lyric.

Katara McCarty: Hmm. [00:07:00] Yeah, I'm seeing a slower, more intentional pace of leadership Mm-hmm Um, one that really doesn't require depletion- Mm-hmm

to prove impact So I'm seeding at that slower pace. Mm-hmm. Yeah

Gabrielle Wyatt: Your legacy, for me as someone who has been able to witness your genius up close and personally- Mm-hmm ... is one of intentionality and one of high fidelity to alignment, to moving in alignment. Mm-hmm. When, um, a system, a community, or even our closest of friends may say, "Girl, what are you doing? Just get back on the traditional track."

To me, Katari, you're a dreamer and a dream keeper. [00:08:00] You're a tender and courageous force. Mm-hmm. You're a fierce advocate for thriving health for Black women and girls, and importantly, you're a mom- ... and a daughter, um, who really I've watched bloom into redefining what stewardship of a family's lineage, um, looks like.

So we're gonna dig into all of that, um, today and really look at it through the lens of who you've been and who you're continuing to become. Mm-hmm. Uh, you've been part of this space, this home called Highland from the beginning. You were an inaugural Highland leader. I remember, as you know, talking with one of your daughters in a reference check to learn more about your leadership and legacy.

You're now a coach [00:09:00] for many Highland leaders, and to me, when I look at those, like, flashbulb moments, at every turn, you were a part of Highland growing up, um- Mm-hmm ... Highland becoming this dream, and it would not have arrived without you and your cohort one sisters being courageous enough to gather and to tell the truth about where we are and what we're dreaming towards.

Hmm.

Legacy Seven Generations
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Gabrielle Wyatt: That is a long way to say we met five years ago to talk about this word legacy.

Katara McCarty: Yeah.

Gabrielle Wyatt: And I'm curious, knowing what you know now, what has the Highland helped you to remember or see differently about legacy?

Katara McCarty: Yeah, it helped me to remember that something [00:10:00] that really challenged me about being a part of the Highland project was thinking about seven generations from now Um, as a daughter and a mother, um, I can see myself and the things that I've taught, uh, my girls bubbling up in them.

They're 32 and 27, and so I can see them as these amazing, beautiful humans, um, adults, um, living out their lives. And so I can see the seeds that I've planted in them because they're, um, have stepped into their adulthood. I can see those seeds, um, flourishing. I also am looking back a generation, um, taking care of my mother.

She was a single mom, very independent, worked three [00:11:00] jobs to put food on the table for me and my sister and my grandmother. My grandmother lived in our house with us growing up. I, all I can remember is having my grandmother and my mother in the same house raising us. But now I'm reaching back to take care of her.

She's 83, um, and she's not as independent as she used to be. And so when I entered into the Highland Project, the inaugural cohort, and you started talking about seven generations from now, it's like, whoa, this is- Girl, shut up. What have I said? Seven generations. Like, I can only really see the one behind and maybe the one before my grandmother and my children, and sometimes dreaming about grandchildren, but not too much.

I'm not ready for that yet. I'm not ready to be a mimi or a granny or grandma. [00:12:00] So thinking about seven generations, really I had to sit back and really take that in. Um, seven generations from now, I won't be earth side.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm.

Katara McCarty: And what does that mean? And so I began to think about legacy differently, that it's not just about what you leave behind necessarily, but it's also about what are you kind of throwing forward?

What are you seeding forward? What are you planting forward that's going to- continue to flourish seven generations from now? So it really stretched me and pulled me and challenged me in a way that I had never been challenged before. It caused me to think about the work that I'm [00:13:00] doing in a deeper, deeper, wider way.

And that's what legacy now means to me, is thinking about what's flourishing seven generations from now

Gabrielle Wyatt: It's beautiful to hear that evolution, and what was painting in my mind for me was that root system, um, and that root system- Mm ... of Katara's is deep and wide instead of just the little blooms that may only survive a season, um- Mm-hmm

Depletion and Turning Point
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Gabrielle Wyatt: that you're naming, that this root system will live for generations just as big oak trees do As we continue to, um, unpack becoming and who Katara is becoming, you know, I'm reminded that we all have those moments in our lives when the way we've been moving in the world, it begins to no longer work [00:14:00] for us- Mm

like the way it did. And that turning point or that realization, it isn't always loud. It doesn't always get paired with a catastrophic event, right, or something, quote unquote, bad. That turning point can be something quiet. I think Octavia Raheem would say it's a turning point when your mind catches up to your body and your heart.

Mm. So I'm curious if there is an experience you can share with us about when that seemingly quiet shift for you began, that moment when you said, "You know what? How I've been moving, it's been great or not, but it's not going to support me in who I'm becoming."

Katara McCarty: Yeah. You know, I think about my husband and I started a nonprofit, and it was really a lot of work.

And [00:15:00] looking back on those 18 years, I was thinking about this just the other day, how depleting of my energy that work was required me to show up and to keep showing up, and to keep showing up, and to keep showing up. And, um, there wasn't room for rest or self-care. Um, I was doing all of the kind of holding space and caring for other people, families, kids, doing a lot of the holding for people.

Um, we were pastors and so You know, we were, you know, at the bedside of dying loved ones with families that were saying g- their goodbyes. We were at, um, in the waiting [00:16:00] room with families who were, um, awaiting their new arrival of a new baby, right? So there was a lot of showing up and space-holding for other people that looking back, I realized, um, people weren't h- holding space for me in the same way necessarily.

Um, and my family would, but when I would look out into the community, I was the one that was kind of showing up.

Bathroom Floor Breakthrough
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Katara McCarty: And so we left that work, um, transitioned out of that, and in 2016, I found myself really depleted, depleted of energy, depleted mentally, spiritually. Um, a lot of change was happening. My girls had moved out of the house.

One was off adulting. The other one was considering college and what her next steps [00:17:00] were. She had moved out of the country, and so I found myself kind of on my bathroom floor, if I'm being super vulnerable and honest, in a bucket of tears. Like, where do I go from here? I've given, and I've given, and I've given, and I don't know what's next for me.

I was a pastor. I was a mom. All of that had come, uh, to a halt, and what was next for me? And so I remember meeting with a coach, and she looked at me and said, "Number one, you have to start practicing pouring back into yourself. That has to become a practice, and what does that look like?" And I didn't know, but she asked me that question.

"And then also [00:18:00] give yourself time to grieve what was." So we had left this work that we had started and built for 18 years. We had done this beautiful, amazing work. Um, I wasn't needed as a mom in the same way, so I needed to grieve that. We had left this, our home that we raised our kids in, and I was in a new place, a new city, and she was like, "You need to grieve."

And I was like, "I don't wanna. I wanna get off, I wanna get off this bathroom floor. I wanna quit crying." And she was like, "Cry. Grieve. Do what you need to do. Give yourself that time." And so Hearing her say, "Give yourself time," I had never really had time. I became a mom at 19. We started this church and this work.

Like, I [00:19:00] had been doing and doing and going a mile a minute for 20-some years, and for her to say, "Give yourself time," was, A, a new concept, and wow, I gotta give myself time. And in doing that over a couple of years of grieving and soul-searching and what's next for me and having a deconstruction of my faith, and all of that happened because I allowed myself to lean into space and time with myself, and really a journey of coming home to who Katara is right now and what's next for me That was a lot.

Gabrielle Wyatt: It wasn't a lot. It was a whole class. Like, I Yeah. I was not lying. I was

Katara McCarty: gonna

Gabrielle Wyatt: say,

Katara McCarty: but...

Gabrielle Wyatt: Um, there's so much I [00:20:00] wanna unpack here, and I think the first thing I want to name is this re-imagining of time that you, um, brought us to in the end of this story. And I remember often sitting with you and Dr. Gail Parker, and she would say to all of us, "You have nothing but time," and we're like, "No, there's like, there's a real construct of time that we have right now.

We have flights to catch. We have deadlines. We have da, da, da, da, da." And in listening to you, you helped me to see and feel, uh, that time can mean and look like I can stay for five more minutes on the floor to cry. Yeah. Or I can schedule a time, right? It might sound trite, right? But I can schedule a time to say, "I'm just gonna sit with this feeling."

Katara McCarty: That's

Gabrielle Wyatt: right. Um, and I think that's essential, um, particularly for [00:21:00] women leaders, particularly for Black women leaders, that we begin to establish new patterns that allow us to feel in spaces where we feel safe enough to put our guards down.

Katara McCarty: Yeah.

Gabrielle Wyatt: I also heard in your story that when we might not know the resource within ourselves or at our fingertips, a resource is asking and pulling in someone else, right?

It's that, like, relational support and how essential that is to how we realize our legacies, that we're not at it alone in how we resource ourselves. And that really leads me to where you began. I heard in your story, like, if folks aren't pouring into the giving tree and I'm the giving tree, then the giving tree's not gonna be here.

That's right.

Grow Without Burning
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Gabrielle Wyatt: And I think naming that truth [00:22:00] is also a resource to say, "Hey I'm looking down the road and I don't know how far I'm looking down the road, but what I know is I don't have enough to keep going in a way that honors the humans I love and care for and also honors my wholeness." And so I'm curious, Katara, when you look back at that younger you- That leader of that nonprofit, um, that spiritual guide for community, what would you say to her now?

Um, what, what love letter, what gems would you leave her with as she guides that part of your legacy?

Katara McCarty: Yeah.

Something that comes up for me is I would tell her to, [00:23:00] and this is something I've learned, is how to grow things without burning the soil.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm.

Katara McCarty: And I did a deep dive on this. Um, because I live in Indiana, so there's... If I- on my way to see my mom, she lives an hour from me, there are times of the year where you'll see farmers burning, controlled burning of part of their land, part of their soil.

And if you're a farmer, don't come for me. I'm not a farmer, so.

Gabrielle Wyatt: We just... It's like how I work- Not claim- ... and I'm a lawyer. Like, we got it. We're good.

Katara McCarty: Not claiming to be an expert. Yeah. But farmers will sometimes practice what's called controlled burning or slash and burn. Um, and basically, in short term it can yield, um, increase yields, [00:24:00] right?

Um, but the trade-off of that is if burning is done too often and without allowing the soil to rest-

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm ...

Katara McCarty: it can dry out the soil. It can lead to erosion. It destroys organic matter and microorganisms, and it makes the land less fertile over time. So in modern sustainability, farming tends to move away from repeated burning toward crop rotation, um, and letting the land rest.

So I would tell my younger self that you can grow things, right? But you don't have to burn the soil.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm.

Katara McCarty: Let it rest. Let it rest [00:25:00] because that's potentially long-term health for me as an individual, and I'm, again, I'm trying to kind of rewire how I approach building things, 'cause I'm building again.

Like, I'm building something, but not doing it in a way that depletes the soil, that depletes me, that depletes, um... Yeah. I want it to, I wanna give myself time to also, um, invest back into myself, take care of myself and rest. Yeah. Let the soil rest. Mm-hmm. So that's what I would tell her. You can grow things, but not at, um, the risk of your own mental health, physical [00:26:00] health, your overall wellbeing.

You don't have to build that way. You don't have to grow things that way. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Gabrielle Wyatt: You got, in my book, you got an A+ on the soil analogy. Um Uh, and you know, it's so true for, you know, for folks who- Yeah ... might not live where Katara lives or sh- familiar with the topics she's speaking about. I live in Don Do.

I live by Central Park. Come a certain part of the year as we turn from fall to winter, many parks close. I live on Great Lawn. Great Lawn closes for a number of months so that it can be here and thriving in the summer months when folks are resting on it, playing on it and more. And so, um, it's the seasons, right, of rest and w- what you're also naming is it's not just seasonal.

Um, there can be a daily practice. Um, and so I'm curious, Katara, [00:27:00] how, how did you begin to learn between this moment of I'm on the floor crying to now? How did you begin to learn to trust yourself with what your body was feeling and then resourcing it?

Katara McCarty: Yeah.

Relearning Rest from Grandma
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Katara McCarty: You know, I did look backwards to my grandmother Um, I took time to remember That she cared for us, her grandchildren.

She helped raise us. She cared for her community, but she also would sit in her recliner and put her feet up on a stool, and she would close her eyes. [00:28:00] And I remember my sister and I, we were little, and we would start cutting up. We'd start getting into stuff we weren't supposed to, 'cause we thought she was asleep.

You know, we're like doing all the things. And I remember her with her eyes closed, she would say, "I'm not asleep. I can hear y'all." I'm just resting my eyes. And so I started to remember my grandmother and her efforts of care. I- we would hear about a family in need. I grew up in a all-Black community.

Everybody knew everybody. Mm. Everybody's looking out for everybody. Um, and it didn't take long for the phone to ring if somebody was in need, and my grandmother would look at me and say, "Sissy, get one of those grocery bags," and [00:29:00] pull the canned goods from underneath my bed. She had Avon b- Avon boxes. Her friend was an Avon rep, Dixie, her friend Dixie, and she had Avon boxes.

But, and she had them under her bed. She had canned goods and dry goods in those boxes, and she'd say, "Sissy, go grab some of those canned goods." And I would go, and I'd pack up the bag, and her and I would walk, my sister would walk to whomever's home and deliver food, right? She was the woman that she... There was a waiting list.

She had a waiting list of people who wanted her to be their babysitter, the babysitter of their new, fresh baby. She used to work in pediatrics before she stopped working to take care of me and my sister, and she was really good with babies, and people wanted her to babysit, and so she would take care of people's babies.

And but she had... She's like, "You gotta pick 'em up by this time," right? She had boundaries. She kicked [00:30:00] her feet up. She would rest her eyes. And so I started to remember that you can care- Mm-hmm ... and show up for community, you can show up for your family, and you can rest your eyes. Mm-hmm. And so I started to remember and started to, um, unlearn

this hustle, grind, go, depletion, I have to keep showing up to prove something- Mm-hmm ... right? No, wait a minute. I was taught rest. I was taught this. And so I had to unlearn and relear- learn b- I had to relearn by remembering my grandmother and I- And what- ...

Rest Fuels Creativity
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Gabrielle Wyatt: started to ... what surprised you most? What did or is surprising you most about [00:31:00] who you are becoming now that you hold and practice that revelation around rest?

Katara McCarty: I'm so surprised At what is being built from that foundation. It's like I am moving or things are being built in a way almost, and I don't wanna say faster, but it feel, I feel more productive.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm.

Katara McCarty: I feel when I look at what the work that I'm doing I'm like, "Oh, it's ha- oh, it's happening, and you took a nap.

Oh, it's happening, and you paused."

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm.

Katara McCarty: Right? You didn't work straight [00:32:00] through lunch and stay up till 10:00 working, right? Like, you stopped for lunch. You actually took a nap. Mm-hmm. You paused and went on a walk. You put your feet in grass. You hugged a tree. I hug trees, by the way, guys. Don't judge me. I love trees.

Um-

Gabrielle Wyatt: You're in good company.

Katara McCarty: You did that, and look at what's, what's, um, what you're building.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm.

Katara McCarty: Right? Mm-hmm. It's still happening, and it's happening at a pace. It's not like it's, um, it's not as though things are halted or slowed down because I rest. It still is generating and growing and moving forward even when I pause to take a nap

Gabrielle Wyatt: Right?

I'm reminded [00:33:00] of, um, a class I took earlier this year with our sister Octavia, and her reminding us of two things. Um, and to my mind, it's like when rest meets legacy, and that she shared that in rest, the brain science of rest is that when we're actually consistently practicing rest, not sleep- Right

um, our brains actually access our most generative and original thoughts. It's our creative super center is how it landed on me. And so when you said, "I'm surprised at what's coming out," I was like, "Right," 'cause you already created good shit, right, leading up to this moment, right, that we're talking about.

And then you've tapped into your most generative, original and creative power through this consistent practice. Right. And I see that then paired with legacy, or Oct- Octavia [00:34:00] would say dharma, right? The realizing of your life purpose. And that life purpose, I believe what you're modeling is one of wholeness, that wholeness is at the core- Yeah

where you're not sacrificing- Mm-hmm ... your pleasure, your joy, your rest for this greater calling, that it has to be integrated together. That's right.

Care as Practice Now
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Gabrielle Wyatt: And so I really wanna, like, shift a bit to then, like, the now. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna define the now as the last five years of, like when you've- Yeah ... graced my life with your presence and the world with your presence in Exhale.

Um, I think this conversation so far, Katara, really has highlighted... might say something controversial, but, like, the difference between folks- Using the words care as branding, using the words wellness and mental health, regulate your nervous system as [00:35:00] branding, right? We see it all around us right now in pop culture.

And some of that is good, I believe, in the sense of trying to normalize- Mm-hmm ... some words and experiences that, you know, frankly, I grew up with not talking about mental health, as an example. But I think there's a difference between care as branding and care as a practice, and care particularly as leaders, care as, um, an embodiment practice.

Mm-hmm. Branding is care sounding good. Care as practice is something that actually holds us- Mm-hmm ... as human beings. Your work has been that living example of the latter. You've modeled that Black women deserve and can in fact be held and loved on differently, not as an afterthought, not as a footnote, not as managing a crisis.[00:36:00]

What did you see in the world that was missing or frankly wrong that made you say, "We deserve more than this"?

Pandemic Spark for Exhale
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Katara McCarty: Yeah, I mean, it was during the pandemic. I was managing my own stress, my own anxiety, um, turning to resources. Um, I was really terrified for my community. COVID was impacting the Black community disproportionately.

I have an elderly mother. Um, my sister, you know, we were watching the news every day. It was a terrifying time. And so I was reaching for mainstream wellness platforms, mental health platforms, um, that I normally would reach for. I practice meditation. I [00:37:00] love a guided meditation. And some of the deaths, killings that was happening and during that time was playing out in the news, and people were talking about it, and it was just so stressful, really daunting.

I remember feeling a bit of hopelessness, hopelessness for my community, and realizing that the oppression that exists, um, none of none of the things that were emerging in the news, the killings, none of that was new. But people were new to it. Oh my G- you know. And so that was frustrating. And I just remember sitting in my basement looking through some of these apps and realizing, like they're not [00:38:00] addressing the stress and anxiety that the Black community, specifically Black women face, have to deal with, have to attempt to manage, that's actually weathering our mental health and overall wellbeing.

And I was like of all times that you should be putting out culturally grounded and culturally relevant, culturally sensitive content, it should be now, and they weren't. And I just remember being so pissed. Like of course they're not, right? Like not surprised, but just angry. Angry. And I remember just marching up the stairs.

I did a meditation. I was, um, trying to ground myself, um, and I was so angry, [00:39:00] so mad. And I remember sitting there and pausing and this h- this idea came, like what if you created what you're looking for? You can't find it. It's not there. What if you created it and centered Black women? And I was like, "Surely somebody's doing that."

So in my anger and in my curiosity, I like scour the internet, Google, um, and I couldn't find it.

Building Exhale From Frustration
---

Katara McCarty: And I remember marching up my stairs, and my husband was standing in the kitchen. I was like, "I have an idea." And he was like, "Okay." I was like, "The, I'm gonna start an app, and I'm gonna center Black women, 'cause you know what?

There isn't one." And he's like, "Okay. You wanna start a business at the beginning of a global pandemic? I'm down. How can I help you?" Like he was like all, all about supporting me. But it really [00:40:00] came from this place of like, I don't see us. I d- I... We're not being refl- I don't see us being reflected back to us in these mental health spaces I wasn't surprised, but I was just like, "This is important."

There has to be spaces that are created and held for us because of the way racism and other systems of oppression impact our mental health as Black women. We should be able to see ourselves reflected back to us in these spaces. And I didn't see it, so I was like, "Well, I'm not super techy, but- Mm-hmm

we should have a space like this, so we should... I should create it. Yeah. And Xhale, the idea for Xhale came from anger and frustration, um, [00:41:00] from what I couldn't find for myself. Yeah.

Gabrielle Wyatt: A beautiful world you and many of our shared mentors have opened for me is, yes, an important step is seeing ourselves, um, and seeing ourselves worthy of care, seeing ourselves worthy as caring for ourselves.

Um, but I think the second is when we say centering Black women in mental health, in the legacy that Katara has been building, I think you and others have helped me to really understand that when I've accessed mainstream content, um, it's reinforcing a colonial mindset that my body needs fixing, and that mental health or [00:42:00] wellness, mindfulness is about controlling my body instead of being with my body, um, having self-compassion for my body, um, knowing that when I walk outside my door, I'm in an external context in this body where in any given place, there's varying or quite low levels of safety And for me, I think that's why your work five years later is more important than ever, because I think that's still misunderstood.

I'm curious for you, you know, even though we see these words more, there's a lot more TikToks going around about this stuff, the talks that I'm not on as a geriatric millennial. What do you still see as deeply misunderstood about our [00:43:00] wellness, um, as Black women and what we deserve in terms of resources and investment?

Katara McCarty: Hmm.

Wellness Spaces And Harm
---

Katara McCarty: Yeah, I mean, I think you named it. It's, you know, wellness spaces are colonized. They're colonized spaces that center whiteness. What does that mean? It's not-- It doesn't just mean, okay, whiteness is being centered, therefore, I don't see myself, I don't fit in as a Black woman or a Black person. It means when I enter those spaces, there's potential for harm.

Harm, right? So I can attempt to go into those spaces, but I'm going to be guarded, right? It just is, it's what we do to protect ourselves. And so [00:44:00] what we are building, what we're saying is- This is a space that is inviting us to come home to ourselves, and we're trying to, to the best of our ability build a container that allows Black women to be brave in.

We don't claim that it's, you're gonna be super safe here, 'cause it's hard to be in a relationship or encounter other humans and always be safe, right? The- people say stuff all the time, whether you... right? That can be harmful. But what we're saying is we're building a container where we can show up in and just truly exhale.

Like, I can lower my shoulders because I [00:45:00] hear a voice that sounds familiar. I, this, um, this guide is talking about the things that I have to navigate as a Black woman. It's not being ignored. It's not... it's actually being brought forward and into the center. And something that our people that download our app and engage with our content, one of the main things that we hear is, "I saw myself in the photos, in the imagery.

I could hear myself in your voice and what you're talking about. [00:46:00] This reflection of myself is an exhale.

Remembered Care And Mirroring
---

Katara McCarty: It allows me to breathe." And that's what we're seeing, what we're hearing is what does it look like to build from, build resources, provide resour- resources from a decolonized place, and that also, a- and also from a place of remembering.

What Excel's providing is not new care. It's remembered care. It's a remembering. Mm-hmm. Um, and so that's what, why I'm so protective of our space, why I why I still stand 10 toes down on why a space like Excel is needed, because we deserve to see ourselves, and we deserve to have spaces [00:47:00] that remember and that guide us home to us.

Mm-hmm. Right?

Gabrielle Wyatt: You're reminding me of our last guest in season one of Meet Me at the Highland, who I know has been such a dream keeper for Exhale and for you, Dr. Gail Parker, and her, um, seemingly simple wisdom that will carry forward for generations of the power of seeing and be seen, the power of mirroring, and, um, that it's not just like, "Okay, I can see there's one other Black person here," right?

Right. But it's this true, I think, sense of safety that begins to happen, right, that helps the shoulders to come down, um, and perhaps a different choice that can be made of, "Okay, maybe I can pause a little [00:48:00] longer here, just exhale." I'm curious, before we transition to the last part of this conversation, you know, we started 30, 40 minutes ago hearing about a version of Katara that was caring for humans, right?

A version who was holding space, a version who folks trusted with their stories, with their vulnerability. And we're now sitting with 2026 Katara, who carries that former version with her, and she's still caring for humans. She's still holding, um, sacred space, sacred vulnerability, sacred healing.

Mm-hmm.

What Is Yours To Carry
---

Gabrielle Wyatt: And I'm wondering how you think about your both responsibility now, um, in that space holding, but also for those who are listening who like, you know, tell me a Black woman who doesn't hold space for people. Um, [00:49:00] we all hold space. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How are you deciding-

What truly is yours to hold and carry versus not?

Katara McCarty: Hmm. Hmm

What's mine to carry is

Unapologetically prioritizing Black women's mental health and wellbeing. That's mine to carry And ensuring that the spaces, the containers that I and my team are building are truly a soft place [00:50:00] that Black women can land And I get a little emotional because I take that responsibility. Um, it's a big responsibility and I t- I think about it a lot and I, um, hold it tenderly and also, um, seriously, right?

Um, I also think about my mom and my grandmother And that my mom continues at 83 to be a soft place for me to land. I think about my home. I think about all the Black women up the street. You know, I think about that are not earth side anymore. The [00:51:00] women that looked out for me when I was riding my bike or, you know, ripping and running up and down Jefferson Street.

You know, they would check on me. They would ask me how I'm doing. They would listen. They would show up

And so I'm, I keep remembering how that made me feel

Gabrielle Wyatt: Hmm ...

Katara McCarty: how that shaped who I am

How it was my mom and my grandmother, but it was also these other pillars. And they were just living their lives, right? Selling candy out of their front porch, right? They were folding laundry. They were picking weeds out of their garden, and I'd just be [00:52:00] walking by, and, you know, they'd check in on me.

And so remembering how important community and collective care is, and that is my foundation. That is who I am. That's how I was raised, and that was modeled for me. I was taught that. Mm-hmm. And that bringing that forward isn't work. It just feels so natural for me because of what I've experienced.

Mm-hmm. And so it's very much about a remembrance and also this responsibility of creating this container, this space, this place where Black women can just truly, maybe for the first time, take a long, [00:53:00] long exhale.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm. I'm gonna keep you, though, in the hot seat, Katara, to ask- Did I avoid your question? Yes, girl.

Um, no, we do. I will bring that question back around. I, you know, I think the w- the... We talked about the giving tree. Um, there, there's a weight to wellness, right? There's a weight to- Yeah ... and for listeners, if you wanna replace the legacy that you're building, right? There's a weight to educational justice.

Yeah. There's a weight to liberation, right? And this conversation, you've been naming for us the ways in which you're practicing wellness for you as a human, that you're embodying it, that you're not simply one who speaks on an issue. Yeah. You're very much living an- l- living antidotes. Um- [00:54:00] And in all of that, how are you discerning what isn't yours to carry?

To put differently, right, like folks give you their stories all the time. That could have you staying under your covers one day, or it could have you swirling of, "Do I need to create all these other things to serve?" How do you discern what's in alignment with what's yours to, um, not carry forward?

Discernment And Saying No
---

Katara McCarty: Yeah, I just am really clear on My vision, my mission. I'm really, really c- I've gotten really clear, and that has taken a lot of work. Yeah. I've gotten... I've had to do a lot of deep work to get really clear. The Highland Project, going through the Highland Project really helped me [00:55:00] get clear, get all the things that I could be doing, what I feel felt like I should be doing, all of the things.

It helped me get crystal clear- Mm-hmm ... about what I am to be doing, and I am not creating s- wellness spaces for everybody. That's just not what I'm doing. There are other people that are doing that. I'm not doing that, right? I am clear about holding space for Black women's mental health and wellbeing. I'm clear about that.

Mm-hmm. Um, I've gotten really good at saying no, and really, really good at understanding that here's my lane, and that's not my lane. That's [00:56:00] just not my lane, right? Mm-hmm. And so because I've gotten clear on my mission, my vision, my legacy, I can then s- I can really discern and decipher that's actually, that's not in alignment with my legacy.

I could d- I could be doing 100 gazillion things, right? Mm-hmm. But that's, that's not my work. This is my work Really understanding like this is my lane and this is my work and this is what I'm supposed to be doing, not even supposed to be doing, but what I feel, um, deeply passionate about in this season of my life, getting really clear helps me to say No, I'm not doing that.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm.

Katara McCarty: And how do we make, [00:57:00] how do we make... So in, in our, even in our political climate, how do I then make change or move the needle, right? So partnering with Black women that are running for office here in my community, um, in my state, in my city. Getting, you know, shoulder to shoulder with them and saying, "Hey, I wanna be, I wanna be a part of what you're doing, but this is how.

Like, I want, I wanna make sure you're good. I wanna be that person that you can call. Like, are you taking care of your mental health while you're also pursuing this thing?"

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm. "

Katara McCarty: And how can I help support you, you as a human," right? "That's putting your body and your life out there for this o- you know, running for office or doing this thing."

So really [00:58:00] also thinking about not just my business that I'm building, but then how am I taking that into my backyard and looking at these Black women, which I have two amazing Black women, we have two amazing Black women in our community that are gonna be running for office. I've already met with them.

We've already had coffee, right? I'm already leaning in that way. Like, I'm checking in on you. You're a mom. You're, right, you're doing all these things, and are you breathing? Are you rested? Let's pause, right? So, so thinking about legacy beyond even, oh, I'm building this business. I'm also like, how am I taking that into, um, into my community.

Yeah.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Well, so I was gonna first say thank you for, like, pausing on this question longer, 'cause I think that- Yeah ... um, [00:59:00] at the heart of this is, I think one of the h- the most difficult, for me at least, in what I've watched in our community, parts of this conversation about legacy, which is this is not a blank check.

Um, right? Like- Yeah ... you have to have credits and debits, which means- Right ... you have to say no, which means you have to have a system that has you constantly revisiting your North Star- That's right ... to ask, "Is this truly my core? Is this what's calling for me?" Mm-hmm. And yes, it may take different forms, but is this- The thing or the essence- Right

of what I'm creating, living, and leaving behind, that folks will know, like, "Yeah, that smells like Katari. That looks like Katari." And I think it's this filtering that is incredibly difficult, and it's understandable why it's difficult. [01:00:00] Because we have so much of a shared narrative, particularly as women leaders, as Black woman leaders- Mm-hmm

of picking up the many pieces, right? Or there not being a pipeline behind us, right, a next generation behind us to pass the baton to. Mm. And I think what you're naming is this, like, discernment meant I had to develop a filter to say, "Is this aligned with this?" And there are days, right, when we know we're not doing something in alignment, and I think the practice then becomes just saying, "I commit to checking back with myself on that," right?

That's right. 'Cause there's things that do happen in crisis or in times of uncertainty that we might do something adjacent. Um, and I think the pr- the legacy practice is we have to commit to having that meeting with ourselves again to say, "Was that just for a time, and has that time come that I can put that role down?"

Katara McCarty: That's right.

Gabrielle Wyatt: You also highlighted, Katari, I think, like, [01:01:00] something that when folks first meet us at the Highline is hard to reckon with, and that's our wholeness as Black women, that we hold many roles, and it doesn't mean that we have to go consistently start other things or be in constant founderdom.

You widened the lens for us, um, in the second part of your response about discernment. You widened the lens to say, "I exist in a community. It matters to me that I'm a community member, but I learned how to get specific on how my legacy in prioritizing Black women's mental health will show up in my community."

Protecting The Seven Generation Vision
---

Gabrielle Wyatt: And so I wanna stick with this widened lens for a few minutes and ask you, as you think about seven generations forward, as you think about longevity of what's most core to your essence, what are you most committed to [01:02:00] protecting? Uh.

Oh, I don't know. What am I g-

Katara McCarty: Can you ask me that again?

Gabrielle Wyatt: As you think about what you're seeding seven generations from now What are you most committed to

Making sure no one touches. Or to put differently, like what are you unwilling to trade in even if it made things easier

Katara McCarty: Hmm

Gabrielle Wyatt: Um, because of the vision that you see seven generations from now?

Katara McCarty: Yeah. I mean, I see us well. [01:03:00]

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm.

Katara McCarty: I see us well, thriving in our health. Mm-hmm. I see us well-resourced, well-rested, well.

Mm-hmm.

Breath As Daily Resistance
---

Katara McCarty: So I'm not willing to budge on The really this vision and my, at my core, this need to prioritize us, and we can't wait for other people to prioritize us.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm.

Katara McCarty: Like, we have to prioritize us, right? We have to ensure that we're pausing, that we're breathing. Even though I came out of a meeting where it was like, "Them folks is crazy and said some [01:04:00] bullshit."

Uh, I don't know. Do we cuss on here? Um, BS.

Gabrielle Wyatt: You can curse.

Katara McCarty: Bullshit. Said some bullshit, and that was harmful. I have to

shift my nervous system through my breath. I have to go, I have to pause, I have to get outside, get some fresh air. Like, I have to care for myself versus this leaning in and enduring, and enduring, and enduring. I gotta quit burning the soil. I have to let the soil rest. So I'm not dismantling systems. I'm not...

That's not my lane. That's not my work. What I'm doing is saying, Black women Let's prioritize ourselves. Let's find ways to exhale

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm ...

Katara McCarty: [01:05:00] moments to breathe, moments to... Right? And so really putting a megaphone to my mouth I h- I hope that that's

Being heard is prioritize yourself and don't wait for other people to do it. Because what these systems do is deplete us.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm.

Katara McCarty: They build on our backs. They take, they extract. They will keep taking. They will keep extracting. We have to, as a form of resistance, say, "No more." "No more. No more." And so I'm not willing to budge on that.

I coach Black women, I have the app, I do other work that I am [01:06:00] constantly saying, "And how can you prioritize you? How can you make room for that exhale?"

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm. "

Katara McCarty: How can you create space?" Mm-hmm. And I have coaching clients that'll give me all the reasons why they don't have time, they don't... And then I push back a little bit.

"Hold on. You can take a deep inhale and a long, slow exhale in your car in the driveway before you go into the house. You can do that before you go into work, while you're in the bathroom- Mm-hmm ... at work in a stall, when somebody's gonna piss you off. You can take a deep inhale and a..." Right? That shifts, just that, just in that moment, coming back home to yourself, shifting your nervous system into a state of calm.

Does that change all the bullshit out here? No, not necessarily. But guess what it does [01:07:00] change? Changes me. That breath could give me another lease on life.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Mm-hmm.

Katara McCarty: Right? That pause. And so I'm not willing to budge on that because in seven generations I want us to be well.

Gabrielle Wyatt: Oof

I, what's moving for me is the theme of this conversation of The Giving Tree.

Support The Movement
---

Gabrielle Wyatt: And so, um, in reciprocity, I want to name or ask how can we, all of us gathering at the Highland to listen to this, to sit at your feet, your wisdom, um, all of us who you are pouring into, how can we prioritize you and your legacy?

Put differently, [01:08:00] what do you need from the Highland, um, as you think about what's ahead and the future choices you're making? Yeah

Katara McCarty: Huh.

You know, I need support around this vision that I'm holding of Black women being well. Um, I need people spreading the word about Exhale. We're, we've launched a movement. We want a million Black women to commit, um, to join our movement, to prioritize themselves and their overall wellbeing. I want my business to be successful.

I want it to grow. Um, I'm holding a vision for Black women, but I'm hol- also holding [01:09:00] a vision for myself as, um, a Black woman tech founder. It's not easy in these streets over here. Um, and so I want people to subscribe so that we can be successful, so that we can, um... We've already put our stake in the ground that we're here.

I want my community to support the work, and I believe, I believe that if I continue to stick to my vision and to say, "This is, we are for Black women," right? "We're an inclusive resource that centers Black women. This is who we are," that the Black community is going to support it. And so I need that support.

I also, um, need people like you in my [01:10:00] life that checks in on me, my trusted, um, people that check on me. I've learned how to raise my hand and say, "I'm not doing so great," and I have my people that I can call- Mm-hmm ... that can be my soft space and place to land. And so, yeah. Mm-hmm. That's what

Gabrielle Wyatt: I need. First, I want to just, like, for everyone listening, to take note that even in responding about what she needs, she gave you yet another masterclass-

on, um, resourcing yourself and naming and calling in the different aspects of community, of relational support that are essential to our legacy-making as Black women. Um, and I just wanna be real specific, y'all Download the Exhale app. That's essential. [01:11:00] The second part that's essential is that you get a subscription, and this is essential because what Exhale is trying to model is that systems of care can be just like the rent parties we grew up going to, meaning that this is a sliding scale of give what you can to access this resource, and that's essential.

That is pulling forward, that's modeling collective wealth, that's modeling collectivism, that's modeling community care. And y'all know that on the other side of a table that's traditionally white and white dominant, where Katara is fundraising from, this concept is not only lost on them, it's not prioritized.

And so for everyone listening, we have to take up Katara's protection call that we prioritize ourselves, and I'll see y'all on these Exhale streets. You know what I'm saying, and you'll see the links dropped in all of the promo for this [01:12:00] episode. So thank you for that, uh, listening to my service announcement.

Just something real specific, Katara. That's all right. Um, but sis I thank you. I thank you for sharing with us, sharing with this community Your heart and your soul, um, and modeling for us in so many different ways how it is so okay to say you don't know, and how it is so okay to say, "I need support," how it's so okay to say, "I'm sad that this chapter's ending," how it's so okay to say, "I'm angry," how it's so okay to say, "I'm not sure how to fit in prioritizing me."

And in this entire conversation, you've consistently met [01:13:00] and shared with us those moments that you've had with so much self-compassion. Mm-hmm. Um, you never once said, "I thought something was wrong with me," even if maybe you did in that moment. Um, and I think that comes from, for me, what I believe you're protecting, which is There is nothing wrong with us, that we're beautiful, that we're deserving of our own care, and we're deserving of being cared for.

Mm-hmm.

Mad Libs And Gratitude
---

Gabrielle Wyatt: And so as we prepare to leave the Highland today, Katara, I'm gonna ask you our favorite mad lib question that we ask everyone Because of them, I can blank. Because of me, blank. So because of them, I can blank. Because of [01:14:00] me,

Katara McCarty: blank

Because of them, is that the right?

Gabrielle Wyatt: Hold on. Next season we're gonna have like a cue card I need to, hold up.

Katara McCarty: Because of them, I can exhale. And because of me, they can exhale

Can I say something? Of course. I was exhaling with you

because that's what you did. I just wanna say I'm so grateful for you Uh, the Highland Project, um, being a part of the inaugural [01:15:00] cohort came at a time that couldn't be more perfect. So thank you, universe. Thank you, Gabrielle. Um, it really was like coming home. Um, I mentioned growing up in a house full of Black women, growing up in a Black community.

Um, and the Highland Project was, my cohort was a coming home. Mm. And it was a remembering, played a crucial role in my remembering. So thank you. And the, yeah, the relationships that I now have, um, not just in my cohort, but it just continues to ground me and center me and, um, yeah, I'm just really grateful for you and for this community.

So thank you.

Gabrielle Wyatt: You're welcome. I [01:16:00] receive that. Um, and I celebrate that.

Closing Celebration And Farewell
---

Gabrielle Wyatt: I celebrate us. I celebrate our courage, always gathering in times of deep uncertainty to show that there can be a different way and model that way. Um, so thank you for meeting me here. Thank you for sharing your beautiful daughters with me.

Thank you for sharing with all of us, um, Betty, um, because she is how we began this episode, and I'm calling her in again as we end this episode, um, that this is multi-generational legacy, um, that she seeded. So I celebrate her. And before I go into a cry fest, I'll just say I'll see you again at the Highland, Katara.

I love you. Thank you for being here.

Katara McCarty: Love you so much. Thank you

​[01:17:00]