Episode 4: Dealing with Conflict

Listening is the foundation of effective communication and leadership. In this episode, J.Marie unpacks the "listening continuum," a model that explores different levels of listening—from ignoring to empathetic listening—and shares practical insights for leaders on how to match their listening approach to the moment. Learn how listening well not only strengthens relationships but also serves as a powerful act of care and connection.

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What is Your Friend in Leadership?

Hosted by veteran communications strategist and leadership trainer J.Marie, Your Friend in Leadership is an inspiring and approachable podcast created to empower today’s public leaders. Each episode delivers strategic insights, transformative ideas, and actionable communication tools to help you better connect with your communities and move your mission forward. With deep appreciation for the important work of public leaders and the knowledge that leadership and communication are skills that can be built and improved, this podcast is your guide to confident and effective leadership every step of the way.

J.Marie: 00:04

Greetings, friends. I am delighted you found your way here to this sweet little podcast about communications and leadership. And today, we're gonna jump into a topic that I think is uncomfortable for a lot of people, and that is conflict. So I'm gonna I'm gonna talk today. I'm gonna share a little story with you from my own life, and I'm gonna explain how this story provides a philosophical approach for reframing conflict, and then I'm gonna close out by sharing a few tips with you to help you navigate conflict both productively and while maintaining dignity and civility for everybody involved.

J.Marie: 00:44

Before I jump into the story, I also wanna share a little nugget, and that is that some of us are intimidated by conflict, some of us are energized by it, but many of us hold some negative stories about conflict because it can sometimes be rooted in anger, and anger is unsurprisingly sort of a hot topic for folks. It is a strong feeling and, therefore, it can elicit strong feelings. And some of us have this idea that anger is always bad, and others of us live, like, we get our energy off of being just a little bit angry all the time. And I would say that neither end of that particular spectrum is a very healthy place to stay, and that yes, is so often the case, the truth is somewhere in the middle. And what I have found is that anger is a really important emotion, but it's a pointer emotion.

J.Marie: 01:46

Anger is meant to point our attention to something that is out of balance or is meant to help us get into a space where we marshal our energy to defend ourselves or someone we care about. But it it's really meant to point us towards that thing that needs our attention, but it's not the place to get stuck. And when we either stuff anger down because we're intimidated by it or we're afraid of it or we live in it in sort of stuck in a cycle of rage, neither of those places are particularly productive, especially as leaders. I view leadership through a really broad lens. So whether you are a leader or whether you are a leader in your family or in your church or a participant in a local hobby group, you know, we all influence one another.

J.Marie: 02:40

We all exert leadership from whatever position we're in. And while anger has its place, it's not the foundation that you want to build your leadership or your presence on. To bring this back to conflict, when you are ready to engage in the issue that the conflict is about, be mindful of where you are in terms of in relation to your own anger on the subject. So in order to deal with conflict productively, we often have to get past the anger and understand what is the anger pointing us towards and then deal with it from there. Let me pause there and share a story with you.

J.Marie: 03:23

So fairly early in my marriage, my then husband and I took in one of my mother's cats, and this cat had some pretty significant health issues and was a pretty frustrating animal to have. It was very loving, but pretty pretty challenging to bring into the house. And on this particular day, I had taken a ferry across to Bainbridge Island from Snohomish where our house was, and I got this phone call from my husband just through the roof upset because this cat had had, let's call them biological events all over the house. And this is what my husband woke up to was, like, projectile events all over the house. And so he called me.

J.Marie: 04:15

And at the time, I didn't yet understand the difference between listening just to listen. What my husband really needed was some empathetic listening, but what I was in was fix it mode. And I felt immediately frustrated because I couldn't do anything to fix it. You know, I was a 2 hour ferry ride and car drive away from home. So my thought is, you know, what do you expect me to do about this?

J.Marie: 04:43

And his thought is, I just wanna be heard and comforted and and commiserated with. But we didn't say those words, you know, that that was the subtext of what was happening. Instead, what happened was, you know, we started arguing, and it was, you know, butting heads about, you know, having this cat and what to do about it and how gross this particular moment was. And we both got really frustrated. And then I blurted out, I can't fight this and you.

J.Marie: 05:07

And then we got quiet for a minute because that sentence was unintentionally really profound because it pointed out that we were fighting each other instead of fighting the underlying issue causing the conflict, instead of solving the problem. And so we closed out our conversation lovingly, we put a pin in it and agreed to talk about it again when I got home that evening. And then we accidentally did something that is really useful, and that is we sat outside on the porch side by side. And I now advocate that when you're dealing with conflict that one of the one of the tips that I will share with you is to to literally sit side by side with someone. Be careful.

J.Marie: 05:54

Watch out when you're sitting across a table or literally face to face with someone because that is a more aggressive stance, and it feels more like you're butting heads with someone. Whereas even if you're still frustrated with someone, if you're sitting side by side dealing with it, there are subtle psychological benefits because now you are literally as well as figuratively side by side sorting it out. So my husband and I sat side by side on the front steps, and we talked through what was happening, and we figured out some better ways to move forward. But from that moment on, it radically shifted how we approached arguments because we decided we didn't want to be fighting the issue and each other, that it it felt a lot better when it was the 2 of us against the problem instead of the 2 of us against each other trying to fight out the problem. I share that story with you with an offering that you take it to heart as a philosophical approach to navigating conflict, that you look at the thing that you are disagreeing with someone about as a separate entity, that now you and this other person, instead of fighting each other over who is right, you and this other person come along and work side by side to figure out what is right.

J.Marie: 07:24

That it's not you versus them, it's you and them versus the problem. So that is a foundational philosophical shift that will help you get through conflict in a more productive way. And then here's a handful of additional tips I wanna leave you with. So one is literally the side by side thing, and that can be sitting side by side. Pull your chair around the table so that you're beside someone as you work it out.

J.Marie: 07:54

Put a piece of paper on the table or have both of you have pieces of paper depending on how people how you and the other person are in terms of how you process your thinking. But being able to doodle on a paper or have a whiteboard in front of you to be able to put ideas on, that can be helpful to help to give you a visual representation of the issue that you're dealing with. Going for a walk is a really powerful way to diffuse some of the energy because when we are feeling conflict, we tend to get a little bit defensive inside. We tend to marshal some of our energy. We can feel anxious or aggressive.

J.Marie: 08:31

Both of those kinds of feelings can help can be dissipated by going for a walk. And going for a walk also has that benefit of being literally side by side again. And it's sort of like 2 boys walking down the street kicking a can as you sort out your difference. Right? So give yourself a way to burn off some of that, the chemical energy that your brain is pumping out when you're navigating something, a difference of opinion or a conflict.

J.Marie: 08:54

Another tip I'll leave you with is be careful about the words you use. You know, if you talk about a conflict, an argument, or a problem, all of those things feel heavy and not very much fun, right, to deal with any of those things. But if you reframe a problem as a puzzle to be solved, well, I mean, I don't know about you, but when I see a puzzle on a table, I am, like, I am drawn to at least look at it. I'm not a a real strong puzzler. That's not my favorite thing.

J.Marie: 09:25

But if I see a puzzle with some pieces floating around, I'm 9 times out of 10 gonna at least pause and take a look at it and, you know, see if I can figure out a place to put, you know, one more piece into the puzzle. It a puzzle invites yourself and others in to resolve it. That's another word, by the way. Use the word resolve. Well, you know, to express your intention, express your desire to resolve the issue, to solve the puzzle.

J.Marie: 09:53

Use empowering language that assumes upfront that you will resolve the issues, that you will achieve a common ground. Puzzles are a great that's a great piece of language to use, and I I use it often. And that works both personally and organizationally. You know, when I'm helping an organization figure out how to talk with their larger community about something they're dealing with, one of my common talking points could be, you know, one of the challenges here is that this is a really complicated puzzle to solve, but we have confidence in the people who are working on this issue that we will work through this. I have confidence as a leader that we are going to work our way through this and we will reach agreement on the other side.

J.Marie: 10:32

So attend to your body language. If it makes sense, give people an opportunity to be moving as they work through the topic. Use intentional language, talk about it as a puzzle, express your confidence in the ability to resolve it, focus on the idea that you are going to reach a solution, not just get mired in the conflict itself. All of those are ways that you can be more productive in dealing with conflict and, quite frankly, be happier as you work your way through it. And so those are some tips I'm gonna leave you with here today.

J.Marie: 11:26

Thank you for spending time with me thinking about how to be more effective and more productive as we navigate these challenges in life and in our work. I hope you have a wonderful day. Take good care of yourself, friends. Remember that who you are and what you do matters. And until next time, be well.