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Killer Quote: "Necessity drives innovation, and nowhere is that more evident than in our efforts to combat plastic waste and stabilize supply chains through advanced recycling and sustainable solutions." - Victoria Meyer, Host of The Chemical Show
Welcome to The Chemical Show™, where chemicals mean business. If you're looking for insights from business leaders of mid-market to Fortune 50, this is the place to be.
Featuring interviews with industry executives, you’ll hear about the key trends impacting chemicals and plastics today: growth, sustainability, innovation, business transformation, digitalization, supply chain, talent, strategic marketing, customer experience and much more.
Episodes are published every Tuesday.
Host Victoria Meyer gained her industry experience at leading companies, including Shell, LyondellBasell and Clariant. Before taking those insights to the broader industry. Victoria brings a informed and engaging perspective, making this podcast not just about the chemical business, but about people, leadership, business challenges and opportunities, and so much more.
The Chemical Show brings you the latest insights into trillion-dollar chemical industry. You will hear from leading industry executives as they discuss their companies, business, markets, and leadership. You’ll learn how chemical, specialty chemical, petrochemical, material science and plastics companies are making an impact, responding to the changing business environment, and discussing best practices and approaches you can apply in your business.
This podcast is a must-listen for executives and business leader everywhere, leading B2B process businesses and industries, driving strategy, harnessing customers and suppliers, and driving business innovation.
A key component of the modern
world economy, the chemical
industry delivers products and
innovations to enhance everyday life.
It is also an industry in transformation
where chemical executives and
workers are delivering growth and
industry changing advancements while
responding to pressures from investors,
regulators, and public opinion.
Discover how leading companies
are approaching these challenges
here on the chemical show.
Join Victoria Meyer, president
of Progressio Global and
host of the chemical show.
As she speaks with executives across the
industry and learns how they are leading
their companies to grow, transform, and
push industry boundaries on all frontiers.
Here's your host, Victoria Meyer.
Victoria: Hi this is Victoria Meyer.
Welcome back to The Chemical Show,
Where Chemicals Means Business.
A few months ago, I had the opportunity
to partner with ACC, the American
Chemistry Council, to bring you
interviews with executives, including
Chris Jahn of ACC, Mike Heinz of BASF
and Bonnie Tully of Evonic that we
recorded at the ACC's Responsible
Care and Sustainability Conference.
If you haven't heard them,
I'm going to add a link to the
show notes and on our website.
You definitely want to check them out.
For the next two episodes, I get
a chance to bring you another ACC
partnership, this time featuring award
winners from their 2024 Sustainability
Leadership Awards, which recognize
outstanding ACC member companies and the
contributions that they are making in
priority areas, which include product
safety, innovation, and transparency,
environmental protection, circularity.
Social responsibility.
And a special award for external
collaborators who are not ACC members
necessarily, but who are partnering
with members to advance sustainability.
I think these awards are great.
I had the opportunity to participate on
a judging panel for one of the awards.
And what I have to say is there are so
many amazing efforts going on across the
industry to create a more sustainable
future and to partner with our customers,
our community, and the world around us.
Today, I am bringing you interviews
from two of the award winners.
The first person you're going to hear
from today is Matt Adams of EFC Gases.
EFC won the Environmental
Protection award for their pretty
novel Neon Recycling project.
We're going to hear more about that.
and then the second person I'm bringing
you today is Robert Dishman of Cyclyx
and Cyclyx won the External Collaborator
award for the work that they are doing
with ExxonMobil and Lyondell Basell and
others to advance plastic circularity.
So they both have great stories that
I know you're going to want to hear.
So stay tuned.
First up, here's Matt.
Hi, I'm talking with Matt Adams, who
is the Executive Vice President at
EFC Gases and Advanced Materials.
EFC was awarded the Environmental
Protection Award by ACC for
its Neon Gas Recycling System.
We are going to be talking about
that today, and about how really,
this is a story of where necessity
is the root of innovation, and that's
something that I think we're going to
hear from Matt as we talk about this.
Matt, welcome to the Chemical Show.
matt adams: Oh, thank you so much.
Really happy to be here.
Victoria: Yeah, really
great to have you here.
So let's just start a little bit talking
about EFC, and, just who you guys are.
matt adams: Yeah.
EFC is, is a company that's been
around for a little over 20 years.
we are a major supplier of
gases and, advanced materials
to, the semiconductor market.
As well as the aerospace industry,
we also supply critical materials
to the industrial gases market.
Materials that are used to supply
gases that are used for the electrical
grid and make sure that we have
electricity running to our homes
and businesses and things like that.
So we have a sort of uniquely positioned
in the marketplace where we have focus on
those industries and supply quite a number
of materials for those applications.
Victoria: That's very cool.
So can you tell us just about what this
Neon Gas Recycling System is, what sparked
it, and how it's getting used today?
matt adams: Yeah, sure.
neon is a material that's used in
an excellent laser application.
It's part of a gas mixture
that creates a light source.
that's used for lithography applications
at the semiconductor fabs and what
we found was during the, During the
war between Russia and Ukraine, there
was a major impact to the global neon
supply chain, and that's the second
major impact to the global neon supply
chain in the last eight years or so.
so the industry, really needs,
neon as part of this gas mixture,
for this XLR laser application.
It's really critical,
for the entire industry.
what EFC did is we worked with, one
of the, one of the OEMs, one of the
laser manufacturers themselves to
develop a neon recycling system.
neon today.
Is it's in the atmosphere and you
gather the neon out of the atmosphere,
through a cryogenic process.
And, that neon is then used, for
several applications, but the
biggest one being for semiconductor.
So what we decided we were going
to do is look at another way of.
of getting neon to the end user.
And, in the XMR laser application, the
neon is used, but it's not exhausted.
So as the, as the gas is, exhausted out of
laser, it is in very high concentration,
somewhere in the 96%, range.
So that is the highest
concentration of neon that exists.
On planet earth is in the
exhaust line of this extra laser.
So we decided to tap into that
exhaust line and capture that neon.
And what we can do is we can
actually take it, bring it back
to our factory and remove any
impurities that are in that, neon.
In that gas and effectively bring it
back to the original, specification
required, for the laser application.
And so that, because of the two
major upsets in less than 10 years
to the marketplace, there really
was a demand to do something about.
about neon and, how do we make
it more sustainable and how do we
make the supply chain, more robust?
And so this was a, great opportunity
to bring a solution to the marketplace.
Victoria: Yeah, I think
that's really cool.
And I think most people, myself
included, I think of neon and I
think of, like bar signs, and neon
lights and Vegas and elsewhere, etc.
So I guess, hadn't fully appreciated
the role that neon plays in
semiconductor manufacturing.
and obviously, it exists around us, right?
It's as you pointed out, we're
breathing it on a, Every day basis,
as long as we're still breathing.
So it's, something that's
naturally occurring, but has to get
concentrated, as you point out, for,
for the manufacturing processes.
matt adams: That, yeah,
that's absolutely the case.
And what's also really interesting and
unique about the solution is, to, to
extract neon from the atmosphere, as you
mentioned, we're breathing it right now.
You really need to get down
to cryogenic temperatures.
It's, very energy intensive.
So when you're using a lot of energy to
extract me on from the atmosphere, of
course, you're creating a lot of carbon.
There's a whole challenge
around managing that.
But if you recycle neon, with
our process, you don't have to
get to cryogenic temperature.
So that saves a lot
from a CO2 perspective.
average fab could save maybe a
quarter of a million metric tons
over a five year period, just by,
by using a recycled system versus,
effectively neon out of the atmosphere.
in our, process, we are able to
extract the impurities the source
that, that the laser itself.
And, again, without using cryogenic
temperature through technologies
that we have developed in house
and restore the neon back to
its its original specifications.
Victoria: yeah, and it really makes
sense to be able to do that, because it's
obviously, if it's not getting consumed
in the process, it's there to help the
process, but it's not getting consumed.
And then, of course, Cleaning the
impurities out versus concentrating neon.
It sounds is far less energy intensive.
So therefore Theoretically less costly.
I'm not going to talk
about your cost basis.
That's yours But certainly using
less energy Electricity and what
have you that's required to create
neon in its in other formats
matt adams: Yeah, absolutely.
And just from a cost perspective, it
are our solutions very competitive with,
the existing supply chain, so to speak.
And again, you get the GWP benefit
versus, the existing supply chain as well.
in, in, in that.
When you're looking at that exhaust
stream of neon coming out of the laser
at the 96 percent concentration level
versus the, parts per million level in
the atmosphere, it really makes sense
to, to invest in, in, mining that.
That gas from the exhaust line
versus mining it from the atmosphere.
Victoria: What's your
customer response been?
Was this something they were looking
for and they didn't know that
it was available or they've been
happy with what you've been able to
provide for them with the solution?
matt adams: Yeah.
So the feedback really started
with the customers going to the
laser manufacturers themselves and
saying, Hey, this is the second time.
Now, what are we going to do about this?
And that really spurred the conversation
of how can we do this better?
How can we do it more efficiently?
and how can we do it more with
a more stable supply chain?
So that sort of spurred that conversation
on and we were, we met with, some
folks in the industry and said, Hey,
we think we have a solution here and
this will make me on, much more stable,
the supply chain, our efficiency.
In our recovery processes
is better than 90%.
So you can imagine if you're recycling,
better than 90 percent of the neon
that's already exists in the world.
Just how much of an impact that
can have on the supply chain.
the customers demanded this of their
supplier of the lasers themselves.
And that's started us down
this path of working together.
And so we were able to develop work
with, the OEMs and develop this
technology that allows
the, neon to recycle.
So the interest around it is tremendous.
and we are, actively working with, many
fabs on how do we actually go about
getting this installed and we're doing,
all of the detailed engineering reviews
and line walks and things like that.
we do believe that this technology
is actually expandable, into,
some other applications.
That also makes it very
interesting, for those end users.
so far it's been going great.
Victoria: That's really cool.
And obviously, ACC awarded you guys
the Environmental Protection Award.
Part of that is really, a big piece of
that was this carbon, and greenhouse
gas reduction, and the potential
that provides and really just how
you've partnered with your, with your
customers and with the value chain.
But I also see this as really part of
the overall story of, sustainability
in semiconductors, circularity, right?
We talk a lot about circularity in
plastics, but the reality is finding
ways to be circular in multiple
products, really, in all products
across, this manufacturing cycles becomes
really critical from an environmental
perspective, from a cost perspective,
and as you point out for your customers
from a supply chain reliability
perspective, it's been really helpful.
matt adams: Yeah, that,
that's absolutely the case.
If you look at the, fabs themselves,
the end users, the manufacturers, these
computer chips, they all have announced.
their carbon goals, right?
Their, sustainability
goals, to the marketplace.
And it's, it's, a Google search away.
You can see what everyone is committed to.
And, of course, in the semiconductor
world, when you're making computer chip,
you don't like to make changes, right?
It's a very complex technology.
Once you have a sort of your recipe locked
in, you don't really want to make changes.
So there's always this sort of dynamic
of How do we do things differently?
we don't want to make changes.
but in order to meet your
sustainability goals, you do
need to do things differently.
For obvious reasons, right?
So when we can bring these technologies
to bear and say, hey, look, at the
environmental impact this can have.
and not only that, but look at the
impact you can have to your supply
chain, making sure you have a.
a sustainable supply chain.
And no, by the way, on the cost
basis, when these neon crises hit
neon pricing, went through the roof.
it was, it was multiple times.
it was, it got like just extremely
expensive to source neon, And, neon
is a rare gas and what happens when
something is rare, any type of impact
to the supply chain, impacts the price.
And so for the first time, literally ever.
an end user can have long term sustainable
pricing for neon for a rare gas that's
never been able to be done before
because there was no way to have,
enough visibility and, the ability to.
To, go, have longterm agreements on a
rare gas and something that goes up and
down and all these things, but not anymore
now, because we're getting better than
90 percent efficiency, we can actually
provide longterm sustainable pricing into
the marketplace for the first time ever.
Victoria: That's cool.
That's cool.
It's really, even a risk management,
element for these customers.
matt adams: Yes, we can take
the worry about when's the
next neon crisis going to hit.
We can take that completely off the table.
Victoria: So what's next for EFC
in its sustainability journey?
matt adams: Yeah.
so for us, recovery of material, recycling
material, that's core to what we do.
And one of the reasons we were
able to provide the solution.
Build it from scratch and provide
it very quickly is because we have
a lot of experience around the
recovery and recycling of materials.
We are the largest recycler
of SF6 in North America.
For example, there's quite a
number of materials that we have
recycling, recovery, recycling.
On and especially in, the rare gas market,
Not only neon, but krypton and xenon.
we have our own equipment division.
So we design and, engineer, build,
recycling systems for various
applications for various gases.
in addition, EFC is invested.
In a, in our own R and D
laboratory, an advanced laboratory.
We've also invested in advanced
analytical laboratory with, clean
room and metals analysis capabilities
and our, we've developed an ability
to synthesize novel chemistry.
EFC has developed materials
that we are now working with.
The OEMs and the end
users, for next generation.
And what that means is, we can take some
of the legacy, gases, etchant materials
that aren't the most environmentally
friendly, materials and replace them
with new chemistries and, that are much
more environmentally friendly and where.
And where that technology doesn't exist
today, we can actually take the 1 that,
take materials and recycle them using
these technologies that we developed
and the equipment that we've developed.
yeah, so it's, there's a lot going on.
around our ability to recover,
recycle and develop novel chemistry.
All that has not only an impact on
the supply chain and the stability
of the supply chain, but also an
environmental impact, as well and
significant environmental impact.
Victoria: That's great.
Thank you.
This has been really cool.
Thanks for joining us today, Matt.
matt adams: My pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Victoria: I hope you enjoyed
my conversation with Matt.
I sure did.
and so many great insights.
I've learned so much about neon,
and its role in the value chain and
really its role in, the criticality
of semiconductors and chips.
And The things that we are relying
on today and into the future.
So important.
and really my number one takeaway
from that, my interview with Matt
is necessity creates opportunity and
opens the door to innovation, right?
So if you are a Schoolhouse Rock
fan, like I was, as a kid, "Mother
Necessity, where would we be?"
Necessity always drives innovation.
and it's awesome to see how, the EFC
gases crew has really taken and embraced
and created solutions that protect the
environment, which is the number one
thing they've gotten recognized for, but
also really strengthens the supply chain
and doesn't in a really meaningful way.
in a critical way for our
current and future economies.
Next up is Robert Dishman from Cyclyx.
Robert and I had a great conversation
talking about plastic circularity and
the unique partnership that started
with ExxonMobil and Lyondell Basell
and Agilyx to come together and find a
solution for a critical problem, plastic
waste, Gathering plastic waste to be
able to bring into advanced recycling
and create a truly circular economy.
such a critical initiative, but
also has since expanded to include a
number of other companies, including
Braskem, Eastman, Saabic, and Total.
And probably a few others.
if you're one of them,
you can let us know.
anyway, so I think this is a great
story about collaboration across
companies with the community, because
the community of Houston, which is where
this project has started is so critical
in this story and creating solutions,
innovative solutions to critical problems.
Listen to Robert, let
me know what you think.
I'm talking with Robert Dishman,
who is the VP of Strategic
Relationships for Cyclyx.
through his career, he's worked
with plastics from collection,
processing, plastic manufacturing,
recycling and environmental
services at companies big and small.
And it's really put him in a position
to help companies, plastics companies,
municipalities, solve some of their
biggest circularity and environmental
goals, which is a great fit for
what he is doing with Cyclyx.
Cyclyx is a joint venture formed by
Agilyx with its partners ExxonMobil and
Lyondell Basell where they teamed up to
form a company, a consortium to advance
plastics recycling in North America.
Talking to Robert today because one
of the recognitions that Cyclyx has
received is they were awarded the
External Collaboration Award in 2024
by the American Chemistry Council.
So we're going to be talking about
partnerships, collaboration, and why
that is so critical in our world today.
Robert, welcome to The Chemical Show.
robert dishman: Thank you.
Victoria: So tell us a
little bit about Cyclyx.
robert dishman: So, Cyclyx is focused on
improving the amount of plastic that is
currently collected and more importantly,
keeping plastic out of the landfill.
As you mentioned, our approach uses a
consortium model that brings industry
stakeholders to engage and support
development of new recovery solutions.
We leverage chemistry to identify the
chemical composition of the plastic.
to help determine the
highest and best use.
And that could be whether it goes
to mechanical or advanced recycling.
But more importantly, we're focused solely
on, reduction of landfill bound plastics.
Victoria: Yeah, and I think Cyclyx
as being polyethylene just I think
primarily because of the connection
with Lyondell Basell and with Exxon
Mobil, but it sounds like your program
actually goes broader than that
robert dishman: It does.
We are partners obviously with Exxon
and Lyondell, as you mentioned.
but we are all plastics.
So if we want to part of our
solution is eliminating some of the
confusion at that point of no return.
When you get to the curbside container and
you're trying to figure out what plastic
goes in and what doesn't based on local
rules and legacy programs, we want to
take that and eliminate that confusion by
saying, if it's plastic, put it in a bag
and we'll take it and take it to our CCC.
Victoria: Awesome, so so throughout
your career you've played some
key roles in industry partnerships
What makes this partnership
with Cyclyx or in Cyclyx unique?
robert dishman: So I think there's
several elements that makes this unique.
one is the consortium model, right?
We have diverse organizations
with different or similar
challenges in the plastics world.
As you mentioned earlier, some
polyethylene, some polypropylene,
polystyrene, ABS, whatever.
we have a combined focus on
hard to recycle plastics.
It's simply the scale and
investment in what we're doing.
And as you mentioned, we have
two great partners along with our
parent company, Agilyx, that have
just supplied the capital needed
to really get this off the ground.
We have a 20 year database of
chemical composition of plastics,
and we like to say it's the chemistry
here that helps us understand.
And again, I mentioned the
highest and best use of plastic.
That composition helps us determine,
is this feedstock that's suitable
for mechanical recycling or is
this feedstock suitable for the
advanced recycling programs?
Victoria: Yeah.
and you have to be fairly
sophisticated to be able to do that.
robert dishman: Yep, absolutely.
Victoria: Awesome.
So I know that, beyond its early
partners, the consortium has grown, right?
To encompass a number of other
companies, including Braskem,
Eastman, SABIC, and Total.
What's been significant about that?
robert dishman: So I think the unique
thing is that, are the members and the
members that you've mentioned and all
have very similar challenges, right?
And whether it's the specific plastic
type or others, it's all trying to
keep plastic out of the landfill.
I like to look at our membership
in ways that it actually
amplifies our impact, right?
the more diverse members we have, the
more opportunity for new technologies.
specific market knowledge, depending
on what they're manufacturing and what
they need support with, other industry
partners that they can potentially bring
to the table to, to provide solutions.
basically just gives us an
additional tool in our toolbox.
there's market reach that we can talk
about with different brands and different
partners and additional volume into
an ecosystem that continues to drive
innovation and accelerates our progress.
Victoria: Yeah.
so a big part of this, and this,
whole system doesn't work without
the consumers getting engaged.
robert dishman: Mhm.
Victoria: Can you talk about that?
what's the engagement?
How are you guys engaging municipalities
and consumers to participate in
this, economy, this recycling system?
Okay.
robert dishman: So the first
thing I'd do is I'd like to
say one, whoever's listening to
this, thank you for listening.
Number one.
Number two, if you're a municipality
or other type of partner and you're
looking for solutions to your plastic
waste and keeping plastic out of your
landfill, please go to 10 to 90 dot
com or Cyclyx dot com and reach out to
us so we can connect and we can help
each other with this as this expands
and grows throughout North America.
I think if you look at the community
specifically to Houston at this point,
our results have been extremely positive.
The feedback from the community, not
only the city of Houston, but also
from the residents of the city of
Houston have been really positive.
we started with one drop off location.
We're up to nine.
We're well over half a million pounds of
plastic diverted from the landfill at this
point in time, that material obviously is
being stored in anticipation of our, first
of its kind CCC one opening in Houston,
which we're looking for, Q2 of next year
for that to happen and stay tuned because
we're also going to be announcing, CCC
to the location in Q4 of this year.
Victoria: Awesome, that's exciting.
So, tell me a little bit what,
because people may not know,
what is this, what is CCC?
What is CCC1?
robert dishman: stands for
Cyclyx Circularity Center.
Victoria: Okay.
robert dishman: if you compare and
contrast it to a traditional MURF
or a legacy MURF, a legacy MURF.
On average, about 70, 000 square feet.
There are some larger.
There are some smaller, our
Victoria: being a municipal
recycling facility, is that right?
robert dishman: That is correct.
Thank
Victoria: okay.
We have to, we have so much
lingo in our industry, I'm
always trying to de lingo it.
robert dishman: We do.
And I always try to remember
to say it out loud when I'm not
talking within the industry.
but yes, the material recovery facility.
so those are basically, if you
think about them, a lot of the
limitations that they have are they're
focused on ones and two plastics.
Some do three through seven, some don't,
some do five, some do six, which again
creates a lot of confusion for consumers.
If you live in one city today, and you
move next week to another city, their
programs could be vastly different.
And so we want to make sure that our 10
to 90 program eliminates that confusion.
And we're looking for more municipal
partners to join us in doing that
with the, hopes of going past just the
collection drop off center, but then
moving into curbside collection as well.
Victoria: Yes, because it seems
like curbside, at least to me,
seems like the way to go, right?
Making it easy to participate
in the circularity economy.
Awesome.
So, you've mentioned CCC1 is
going to be starting up next year.
CCC2 is getting announced later this year.
What else should we be looking forward to?
robert dishman: I think, as we mentioned,
probably last year sometime, we do have a
systematic approach to rolling out more.
CCC's and so there'll be more of
those announced in the future as
we, bring CCC one on and CCC two on.
we're looking for additional
industry partners.
We're looking for municipal
partners, as I mentioned.
so if you have plastics and you're
looking, call your municipality
and tell them to get ahold of us.
We're, more than happy to have
discussions with them and help facilitate
diverting plastics from the landfill.
Victoria: Awesome.
Robert, thank you for joining us today.
And congratulations on winning the
External Collaboration Award from ACC.
robert dishman: Great.
Thank you.
I'd like to thank you and The
Chemical Show for allowing us
to share the Cyclyx message.
Victoria: Absolutely.
Happy to do Thank you for listening today.
I hope you really enjoyed the insights
that I brought, on from Robert Dishman
at Cyclyx, which was the External
Collaborator Award winner from the ACC
and Matt Adams of EFC Gases, which won
the Environmental Protection Award.
Great stories, great insights.
Next week, next episode, listen in,
we're going to be talking about the
circularity award winner, social
responsibility and community engagement.
And product safety, innovation,
and transparency, all
three, very critical facets.
Thank you for listening today.
Keep listening, keep
following, keep sharing.
And if you are not currently a
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I'll talk to you soon.