The Diocese of Paisley Podcast

Patrick O’Hara speaks to Father John Tormey, Parish Priest at Saint Aidan’s Church, Johnstone.

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Stories, interviews, history, and more from the Catholic Diocese of Paisley, Scotland. New episodes published monthly.

Patrick O'Hara:

I'm here at Saint Aidan's in Johnstone today to speak to Father John Tormey who's been chaplain to the NHS for over 20 years.

Patrick O'Hara:

Good morning, Father. What is the main role of a priest for the sick, especially in the hospital and hospices?

Father John Tormey:

Well, a priest has a very different job from a doctor or a nurse or a carer because they're principally concerned with the spiritual care of of a person who is not well. And, the medical profession itself recognizes that spiritual care is in fact not just secondary but an essential part of the care of someone who is ill. So when I am invited to go into the hospital, it is usually because a person has been either seriously not well or or perhaps has been in for a long time and they they want the sacraments, maybe the sacrament of Holy Communion or else they want the sacrament of Confession. And in some cases I also use give them the sacrament of Holy Anointing to ask the lord to strengthen them in their their suffering.

Patrick O'Hara:

And how do you find visiting people in a hospital environment?

Father John Tormey:

Well, I find that normally it is a very positive experience mostly because in the first instance the person who is not well is often delighted to see the priest arrive and that's good for them because they're being seen to by medical professions and they're there to get better or to get attended to. But that's not maybe meeting their spiritual needs. So when they see me I'm not a doctor or a nurse so they feel I think more like they're a person not just a patient and I think that's an essential part.

Father John Tormey:

So generally speaking the the nurses and the doctors, particularly the nurses, are very accommodating, and very helpful, and very friendly, and glad to have you come in.

Father John Tormey:

And they realize the importance of the spiritual care. And also it is a quite an uplifting moment for a person who's not well because again it's it's focusing them away from their illness and and bringing them more into focus on bringing God into focus and and that's uplifting for them generally speaking.

Patrick O'Hara:

So can a person ask a priest to come to the hospital at any time?

Father John Tormey:

That's a good question. So, every hospital, every major hospital has, access to what we call a priest on call rota. And what does that mean? That means that say in an area of maybe 9 or 10 parishes, we ask all the priests to go on that rota. And it means that they'll take a week each and 247 set for 7 days a week they are available to be called out day or night by the hospital switchboard.

Father John Tormey:

So if a person is in danger of death or is very seriously ill and they need to see a priest, want to see a priest, or their family says can you get a priest for my mother, my father, my child, they will contact the switchboard and say can you call out the priest on call. So those are for what we would call emergencies. And in addition to that we have priests like myself who are general chaplains to the major hospitals and we'll go in every week on for what we would call less urgent cases where people have asked to receive holy communion or the sacraments or they want to talk to us about something and that would be my duty. So I would normally go in on a Tuesday, father Thomas would go in on a Friday and that generally covers the non urgent requests. So between the priest on call for urgent requests and the chaplains who are the the the normal chaplains, Catholic chaplains, we will go in regularly for the non urgent cases.

Father John Tormey:

So a person can get a priest usually either immediately, or at the next visit when the priest come in it's not urgent.

Patrick O'Hara:

So what do you like most of all when you visit people in the hospital?

Father John Tormey:

Well, I once an old priest told me that when I was studying to be a priest he said boys, they talk about job satisfaction and I can tell you that the priesthood is for me one of the greatest, gives you one of the greatest job satisfactions because you're dealing with people all the time. So, for me the joy of going in to see people in the hospital is I know that I'm bringing them something they need and I can see a change in them when they've received the prince's holy communion or when they've received the sacrament of the anointing. It gives them it gives them confidence and courage. And sometimes it gives them hope when they are perhaps seriously ill and maybe they're having a rough time. And I feel that I I'm blessed and privileged to be able to bring them the sacraments, to bring them the grace of of our Lord at a time when they need it most.

Father John Tormey:

And it does help them and very often they're so grateful that that they've had that opportunity to encounter God's grace, his healing, his strength in their need in their time of difficulty.

Patrick O'Hara:

Do you have pastoral care for the nurses and doctors too or just for the sick and their families?

Father John Tormey:

Well, that's a good question. The answer is we don't as priests have a specific, pastoral, duty towards the the nurses and doctors. I certainly, when I go in, I'm a bit chatty so I ask them how they're doing and and what they're having for dinner and did they get a break and how long have they been working. Many of them work 12 hour shifts and you come in maybe at 2 o'clock in the afternoon or 3 o'clock and they're maybe just sitting down to have their lunch because they couldn't stop for work because they were looking after someone who couldn't stop for their lunch. So very often nurses will go over their 12 hour shift period and you can find them not wanting to leave a patient even though they're not getting paid for it.

Father John Tormey:

So they appreciate the fact that I know that and I I always tell them you're doing a great job and thank you for looking after our sick, prisoners, our sick friends. And, I always cuddle with them and say if I was the prime minister I would double your wages because you're worth your weight in gold. And that's at that point, they they laugh but, yeah, you know, I said tell them if I win the lottery I'll be giving them a pay raise. And even that encouragement is good for them to hear because they they are constantly work hardworking and they do appreciate getting that kind of encouragement. If someone wanted to come and speak to me then they they could of course do that.

Father John Tormey:

There are general care chaplains, spiritual care chaplains which are there which the hospital has in place for medical staff. So that would be probably their first port of call would be the the general spiritual chaplains. Interestingly enough every hospital has a spiritual care chaplain who's not necessarily a religious person. And very often when a Catholic says can I see the chaplain and they send the general chaplain, the general chaplain says with a laugh, oh when I got there they said well it's not your one as a priest? So they they then refer on a request like that to myself and I go and see them.

Father John Tormey:

So there generally is a good report there with the doctors and the nurses but our priestly ministry is not specific to theirs unless they ask.

Patrick O'Hara:

Do you ever use the hospital chapel, which is now called the sanctuary, and do patients have access to it?

Father John Tormey:

Well, the chapel, which is now called the sanctuary, as you correctly say, used to be every Saturday evening we had a vigil for people that wanted to come to mass. We're long term in the hospital. Rota for eucharistic ministers and readers and also a rota for people who would go around the day before the mass asking in the wards if anyone wanted to go and we would bring them down by wheelchair, always with the agreement of the the nurses in charge of the patients. The problem with that was that we might get 4 or 5 but usually 1 or 2, But 95% of the people at that mass were actually not people from the hospital, but people looking for a mass, a 4 o'clock mass on a Saturday afternoon. And since the COVID has stopped the mass by the way when we couldn't have mass in the hospital.

Father John Tormey:

Since then many parishes have decided to have a 4 o'clock mass so I I feel that we don't need a mass in the hospital sanctuary now. I think, I can get to more patients by going round them which I do in the hospital. The people patients can go down there for a quiet moment of reflection and there is a there is there are Bibles there if they want to read the bible. They can pray there at a special place. They can write out a petition and hang on a little prayer tree.

Father John Tormey:

So there is an opportunity for people to find that time. But by and large when you're in hospital you're not there to have a prayer experience in the chapel, you're there to get better and you're you're possibly not thinking of just you know where can I go and say my prayers? But it is a nice place for relatives to go to especially if they've had upsetting news and indeed if someone has died, one of their loved ones, they can go there and they can spend a bit of time if they want to to to pray for their loved one and to to maybe just have a bit of time to pray and be at peace. So it's a beautiful place, the sanctuary, but we don't have mass there anymore but we can have mass there. One thing we do as an Ash Wednesday is we have an Ash Wednesday service for nurses and doctors and they do like to come down for that.

Father John Tormey:

But we we can't really have a mask for the nurses and the doctors because generally when they're at the hospital they're there to work. So they can't take a break from their work to come to mass which they can do when they're when they're at home and they're they've got free time. They can go to mass at home, which is probably, better for them because they're not at work and they have more time to focus on the prayer.

Patrick O'Hara:

Finally, what is your role in relationship in comparison to the general spiritual care chaplain which the hospital trust provides for everyone in a hospital?

Father John Tormey:

Well, we mentioned the general chaplain before and, they they if first of all, if a a Catholic asks for a chaplain, sometimes they're contacted and they will then refer that person to me and I'll go and visit them. So they are called chaplains and the the hospital bureaucracy or the the people that run the hospitals, they prefer the priest not to be called a chaplain. They say the chaplains are only the ones that are the paid chaplains, the spiritual care chaplains. But as far as priests are concerned we are chaplains to the Catholics in the hospital and we have a protocol set up with the NHS trusts in Inverclyde and in Paisley. We're in the talking of the Diocese of Paisley.

Father John Tormey:

And that allows us to have 1 a priest on call, Rota, which the nurses know they can call contact the priest when a Catholic asks for a priest and also a visit from a priest they can go through the spiritual care chaplain. There was a time when priests and ministers were called full time chaplains in the hospital but the hospital have taken a step back from specific religious care and they prefer to call it spiritual care which encompasses everyone including people who have no faith. And and they're perfectly entitled to have that of course, but as far as as a priest and as a Catholic chaplain is concerned we are very clear that if a Catholic is asking for a chaplain they mean a priest and what the name's not important the fact is that they want a priest to come. And and I have to say there's a very good cooperation with the 2 chaplains that I work with and the spiritual care chaplains in the hospital are Cindy and Louise and they're very very friendly and kind people and we're very we're very good at cooperating with each other. And I occasionally attend some services that they have and can participate in those services if they ask me to and I'm happy to do that.

Father John Tormey:

So we have a good spirit of cooperation but, we have our own protocols which we've worked out with the NHS trusts to define clearly our our our relationship to the staff and patients in the hospital because that wasn't clear at the start when they introduced spiritual chaplains because at the start they said there's no need for priests to come in now because we are the spiritual care chaplains. And we said sorry, when we want, when our people want a priest they want us not you with no offence of course and they of course they'll laugh, they realize. As I said earlier, when Cindy or Louise are called to a person who says that you were asked to visit them and they say, watch I didn't want you I wanted a priest and they say oh you are father John I'll I'll I'll I'll contact them for him, and they're very good at doing that. So, I always like to tell, the nurses, that if or if there's ever any question of doubt or why are you here, I always like to emphasize that they are there for the, the medical care and I'm there for the spiritual care.

Father John Tormey:

And indeed in everyone's notes, in patient's notes, there is a spiritual care page and I can request that for instance if a person's been anointed I can request that that sacrament of anointing has been given to this patient and it can they please record it in the spiritual care notes. So the hospital do do recognize the spiritual spiritual care is important not necessarily religious care, but they do know that if it's a Catholic that they they've been religious in care, and in other words, the ministry of a priest.

Patrick O'Hara:

Well, that was all. Thank you for taking time out of your day to speak to me, and, I'm sure many people will find this very interesting. So thank you for that.

Father John Tormey:

Thank you very much, Patrick. It was a pleasure.