The Case in Question:
Hoover v. Sun Oil Co. - 58 Del. 553, 212 A.2d 214 (1965)
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Creators & Guests
What is Laying Down the Law: Accountant Edition?
Billy DeClercq, Esq. - a real lawyer - invites comedians and improvisers to discuss real legal cases and concepts. He helps them dissect the case, then they throw it in the improv blender to create comedic magic in completely original scenes. Then, Billy throws off his gloves and goes for the jugular by asking heavyweight questions to find out what makes his guests tick.
Attention: This is a machine-generated transcript. As such, there may be spelling, grammar, and accuracy errors throughout. Thank you for your understanding!
Speaker1: [00:00:03] From the beyond unreasonable.
Billy: [00:00:04] To help studios. In association with fight no production. It's lay.
[00:00:13] Down the law.
Speaker1: [00:00:19] With your host.
Billy: [00:00:21] Billy de Klerk. Hey, that's me.
Speaker1: [00:00:23] Yeah, that's right, Billy. That's you. Featuring Chris Compton, Stephen C, James and John Sommers Live from the Ledge and Lorne Michaels, Pia Smith and me producer Jeff recorded later. Only a mad man would dare to bring these people together to build a world of law and order only to tear it apart with laughter. That mad man is attorney Billy de Klerk. The result is a podcast blasted to the farthest reaches of the Internet. That podcast is this one, and it starts right now.
Billy: [00:00:55] Welcome to Laying Down the Law Earmark edition. The Law and Comedy podcast is hosted by me, Billy de Klerk. Let's welcome our guests today. First, he's the other half of the comedy duo Landry and Summers. He was also the co founder and company member with Shaun Landry of We Be Negroes and host of the Seniors Improv Comedy. He's a graduate of Indiana University and the Players Workshop of Second City. And he's one of the allies of the Ledge Theater. He is hence colors.
Hans: [00:01:35] That almost sounded impressive.
Billy: [00:01:38] Is your microphone on? Yes, It's fantastic. No, I don't know. Is my microphone on? It is fantastic. Next, he's an actor, storyteller, writer and director who escaped the great state of Texas, moving to LA to pursue a career in comedy and free verse poetry, where he has become a reluctant hero, running a drama program out of middle school, which was featured on the Moth Storytelling podcast. He's performed at Second City, LA, with the really awesome improv show and with Tuskegee Experiment. He's written for the TV show 26 Miles, played the Dude in Pumpkin Patch and performs on the super legit podcast. He's co founder of the comedy duo Nerd Vana that's performed at countless clubs and venues throughout the USA. Please welcome the multi-talented Mr. Steve and C James. You know, you're a narcissist and you've got a page, Turner laughs. And finally, my third guest is an actor, writer, improviser and all around do gooder. Listen closely and you'll hear him in movies like The Blind Side, Marmaduke and The Mechanic, or on TV shows like Pretty Little Liars, Cougar Town and Victorious. As an improviser, he's toured the world with Second City's Boat CO and can currently be seen with Nirvana, the two man improv and sketch show that is performed in Los Angeles and right.
Speaker4: [00:03:10] Here at the Lyric Hyperion in lovely Silver Lake, California.
Billy: [00:03:13] Just about 5 minutes ago. Around the country, for over a decade, he is the one and only, well, probably not the one and only, but he's the one and only here tonight. Chris Compton. And now a short break to hear from our commercial sponsors.
Speaker5: [00:03:33] Insert advertisement here.
Billy: [00:03:35] Thank you so much to the sponsor. We appreciate it. We really appreciate your support. Now, folks, get out there and support that product and or service. Use the promo code if applicable, not available in all areas. Some restrictions may apply. Batteries not included. Enlarge to show texture. Ask your doctor about serious side effects and who's ready for some legal edu tainment. We are. Oh, please. Please. All right. Okay. So the deal is that I'm going to read a case. I'm going to give you the facts and feel free to interrupt me at any time and ask questions. This is Hoover versus Sun Oil Company. Herbert Hoover. It is not Herbert Hoover. Okay. 1962 said any time 1965. The case commenced on August 16th, 1962, a warm, sunny summer.
Speaker4: [00:04:31] Day in Delaware.
Billy: [00:04:33] At a service station offered.
Speaker4: [00:04:35] Operated by one James.
Billy: [00:04:36] F Barone. A fire started at the rear of Mr. Hoover's car, where it was being filled with gasoline started being serviced by one Mr. Smithwick.
Speaker4: [00:04:46] John Smithwick, who is an employee of Barone.
Billy: [00:04:49] That. I've got a question already. How do you start a fire while filling up someone's gas tank? How hard you have to be cramming that hose in there while smoking your 1960? Exactly. There you go. Just start a fire while gassing up someone's car. Yeah, well, you know, it's a great thing about law school is we don't know how the fire started, nor do we know how serious injuries were, because it's not the legal issue here in the case. Oh, so it's almost like you're intimating that there's some sort of stereotype of lawyers maybe not caring about the actual people. It's actually not a stereotype. Oh, yeah, that's actually true.
Hans: [00:05:23] It's actually just caring about the property. That's caring about the property.
Billy: [00:05:26] So the plaintiffs, Mr. Hoover, had serious enough injuries that he sued Barone, the owner of the station.
Speaker4: [00:05:31] Manager.
Billy: [00:05:31] Mr. Smiley.
Speaker4: [00:05:32] The fire starting service.
Billy: [00:05:34] Station attendee and son oil company, the Deep Pockets, which owned the service station. Now, Sun wanted to get out of the case, claiming.
Speaker4: [00:05:44] That it was not the owner of the service station.
Billy: [00:05:48] So the the question that's presented in this case.
Speaker4: [00:05:51] Is whether.
Billy: [00:05:51] Sun was the owner enough that it could be responsible.
Speaker4: [00:05:55] For the injuries to Mr. Hoover.
Billy: [00:05:56] So here are the facts that are relevant.
Speaker4: [00:06:00] First, the service station was owned by Sun Oil Company, but it was operated by Mr. Barone. Sort of like the Lyric Hyperion. Yeah, right.
Billy: [00:06:09] That owned by Sun Oil. It is owned by Sun Oil Company. Enjoy the complimentary cups of sun oil on all your delicious.
Chris: [00:06:17] Try it.
Billy: [00:06:18] Neat. Yes. They had a dealer and lease agreement.
Speaker4: [00:06:22] Sort of like a sort of like a franchise operation. Like a subway or.
Billy: [00:06:25] A or a Baskin-Robbins, where they. Barone had started running the service station two years ago. So Sun Oil owned the dirt.
Speaker4: [00:06:35] The ground underneath. They leased it to Barone. And Barone.
Billy: [00:06:38] Had gone to Sun.
Speaker4: [00:06:39] School, which apparently involves some.
Billy: [00:06:41] Kind of a model.
Speaker4: [00:06:42] Service station where he was trained on all the Sun products and he got a Sun service degree and.
Chris: [00:06:48] They have a garage in which you press the button and then the car would roll all the way.
Billy: [00:06:52] Down. It did, and then the people didn't have legs and you put them inside.
Chris: [00:06:56] Okay, So they wobble, but they wouldn't fall down. Exactly. Yeah.
Hans: [00:06:59] It's kind of like hamburger. You where you learn about McDonald's.
Billy: [00:07:02] Yeah, that's exactly, exactly like that. I'm also curious how your parents react when you tell them, hey, I'm going to college. Kind of I'm going to Sun University. You know, you said I'd never amount to anything, but I'm going to college to learn how to be a gas station attendant.
Hans: [00:07:15] Honey, does the sun stand for something as an abbreviation?
Billy: [00:07:18] Nope. Just sun, See?
Chris: [00:07:21] So that means the University of Phenix used to be less reputable.
Billy: [00:07:24] That's right. Okay, well, see, the reason it's called Sun.
Speaker4: [00:07:27] Oil.
Billy: [00:07:27] Company is it all starts from the sun. So millions of years ago, I assume that this is going to be cut out of the podcast for editing. Yeah. As you go into the history of how petroleum is made from beginning to end.
Chris: [00:07:40] That's the audience know that he did go for another 25 minutes. Yeah, from the Big Bang.
Hans: [00:07:46] Daddy, tell me about the dinosaurs that died and got compressed under the ground and became oil.
Billy: [00:07:50] Well, it wasn't really the dinosaurs.
Hans: [00:07:52] It was the presence of plants.
Billy: [00:07:54] Okay. The most of the.
Hans: [00:07:55] Oil I see. It wasn't dinosaurs. Not at all. I always thought it was dinosaurs. I thought they got compressed between the rocks.
Chris: [00:08:00] No, Sinclair's been lying to me.
Billy: [00:08:04] So he was a baron, was allowed to sell other products. He didn't just have to sell.
Speaker4: [00:08:09] Sun Oil products.
Billy: [00:08:10] But his employees wore a uniform that had a little Sun logo on it. He also had someone who came by every single week, and his name was. Robert B Peterson, who came by every week to supervise, inspect the restrooms and try and sell more sun products. That pause made it sound like you made up the most boring fake name possible. Yeah, that was his name was Robert B Peterson. Yeah. Is your refrigerator running.
Chris: [00:08:44] With his wife? Note's microphone?
Billy: [00:08:49] Yep, that's right. Robert Peterson is not the name, not his real name. It is.
Hans: [00:08:56] Telling us lots.
Billy: [00:08:56] Of lies. Ip freely is his real name. So, Mr.. Mr. Peterson would inspect the restrooms, discuss customer complaints, and make suggestions to.
Speaker4: [00:09:08] Improve.
Billy: [00:09:08] Sales, and.
Speaker4: [00:09:09] He would advise Mr. Barone on operations now.
Billy: [00:09:11] Very important. The court lets us know Mr. Barone did not need to follow Mr..
Speaker4: [00:09:16] Peterson's advice necessarily. They were just.
Billy: [00:09:19] Suggestions. I'm very glad that you're saying this, because there's a word that I've been wanting to get into the lexicon and that is Job Legation. Yeah, it's when at work they're like, Hey, you don't have to attend this meeting. But, you know, I got to attend that meeting. If I'm not at that meeting, everybody's going to be like, Hey, when we're shit, that voluntary meeting that you should have been at, right? Yeah, absolutely. Completely voluntary. Also the ping pong, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So he was not required to follow the advice. He set his own hours and in the agreements between them, he assumed.
Speaker4: [00:09:51] The risk of loss and he was the one that was responsible to supervise.
Billy: [00:09:55] The employees. So the question is, son asks to get taken out of the case. It's not our responsibility.
Speaker4: [00:10:01] We don't own the property. We don't run it. We're not responsible.
Billy: [00:10:04] So just a quick survey. Do you think son got out of the case or.
Speaker4: [00:10:09] Do you think son was found liable?
Hans: [00:10:13] Well, let's see now. Now, son owns the land, right?
Billy: [00:10:19] Correct.
Hans: [00:10:19] Okay. And the building that has a son sign is on the land that son owns.
Billy: [00:10:24] That's right. They did have a large, large advertising sign like. Like service stations today. And there was also classified ads taken out that said it was a son service station.
Hans: [00:10:33] And each of their employees are tattooed with son oil right.
Billy: [00:10:36] On their uniform. That's right. Exactly.
Chris: [00:10:38] And the logo does say, son, we own this gas station, right? It does. Yes, exactly.
Hans: [00:10:43] So I'd say, yes, that's responsible.
Billy: [00:10:47] Okay. I'm going to be very unpopular then, because I don't think they're responsible because it's not like part of their employee manual was like on Thursdays it's free fire. Dang, go ahead and cram as many lit cigarets into the back of the of an old Hoover car as you can. I think just because you hire an asshole does not mean you are necessarily 100% responsible for that asshole. And I deeply apologize to the family of the gas station attendant who I saw smilingly besmirched by calling an asshole. I'm so sorry.
Hans: [00:11:17] But wait a minute. The owner of the gas station hired the asshole. Isn't he responsible for the people he hires?
Billy: [00:11:22] Yeah, but that's like putting some, like, four or five things down the line.
Hans: [00:11:26] But Son sold the gas station to this guy.
Billy: [00:11:28] Yeah, but they didn't know that he was going to hire an asshole.
Hans: [00:11:32] It's a gas station.
Billy: [00:11:33] I mean, yes, gas stations are commonly populated with houses.
Hans: [00:11:36] There you go.
Billy: [00:11:37] Chris, what do you think?
Chris: [00:11:39] I'm going to go strategic and bet $1.
Billy: [00:11:45] Well, go.
Hans: [00:11:45] Ahead and spin the wheel. All right.
Chris: [00:11:49] Hello? No, son. Gas station attendants.
Billy: [00:11:53] Though I will admit I might be wrong, because maybe this case is why there are no sun oil stations today. This was the last thing Sun did. They were like, we can get out of this. And the guy who got his car set on fire, Hoover was like, No, I'm going to go in and call my lawyer, Jonathan Exxon. And we're. Well, this is the part where I tell the audience that I'm under contract to produce a 45 minute long episode. However, you're not going to listen to that. It's going to be recorded later, and I'm just going to tell you what the outcome is. But for those of you that are listening to this for free, continuing education credits you CPAs on earmark. You're now about to get more information from me recorded later.
Speaker4: [00:12:41] Greetings, earmark listeners. This is your host, Bill de Klerk. Later, I am contractually obligated to provide for you approximately 36.2 minutes of actual legal learning time. It takes me roughly 97 minutes to provide those 36 minutes. Right. Oh, hi, Jeff. Hi, buddy. Good to see you. Everyone, if you've been listening to this podcast for a while or even 10 minutes, this is producer Jeff. Producer Jeff is the silent improviser that puts in the edits after the fact. And sometimes they are hysterical edits and sometimes they're edits that make me sound smarter.
Speaker1: [00:13:20] Sometimes.
Speaker4: [00:13:22] Usually.
Billy: [00:13:25] Hey, p is o p. Hey, P is here. Excellent. Oh, my God. Lorne Michaels is here. Holy shit.
Speaker4: [00:13:33] It's like a whole class.
Speaker5: [00:13:35] Oh.
Billy: [00:13:36] Hi. Welcome back.
Speaker4: [00:13:38] Lauren Michaels.
Speaker1: [00:13:40] Earmark listeners. You heard Lorne Michaels in episode one. You've heard Pia Smith in episode two. Now, here we are in episode three, most of which is going to be live with on Summers, Stephen C James and Chris Compton at the Ledge.
Speaker4: [00:13:54] Yeah, now.
Speaker1: [00:13:56] It is Hoover versus Sun Oil Co.
Speaker4: [00:13:59] I know we're going to and I got the eye. This is going to be so perfect because I completely forgot what we talked about and it's fresh in your mind. So you're going to have. So basically the bit is you're trying to keep me on track.
Speaker1: [00:14:11] We have to record something. Relevant to the case. Billy. It has to be Hoover versus Sun Oil.
Speaker4: [00:14:19] It's not going to be Hoover versus Sun Oil. I'm just telling you it's not because I already did Hoover versus Sun Oil, but I'm going to do Humble Oil and Refining Co versus Martin Humble Oil. Humble, humble, humble oil company.
Speaker1: [00:14:33] Is it in Humble Texas?
Speaker4: [00:14:34] Humble oil and refining company? I don't know. And AC love got sued because because George Martin and his kids were hit from behind by Love's car. When she left it for humble oil to service. So, So. So Mrs. Love leaves her car at the humble oil station. And the question in this case is whether George Martin, the plaintiff, can sue humble oil we're following.
Speaker1: [00:15:04] Got it. So far.
Speaker4: [00:15:05] What that depends on is whether there is a independent contractor or a quote unquote, master servant or employee employer relationship between them. And so the question is whether the. Or we can call it even principal and agent. We've talked about principal and agent principal being the person that's in control and the agent doing the work for the person. So if humble oil is the principal, then they can be sued for the injuries to AC, love and or children. Which is, of course important because humble oil is where the money is.
Speaker1: [00:15:45] Humble Oil is like the parent oil company that does the refining and distribution, right? And AC love would be the vendor.
Speaker4: [00:15:51] Ac Love is the.
Speaker1: [00:15:53] Franchisee, in a sense, the operator of a station.
Speaker4: [00:15:56] We need to know the facts. There you go. The facts of the case is that Mrs. Love left her car at a service station to get the brakes fixed. She wasn't there when this happened.
Speaker1: [00:16:06] Okay, so who is Martin?
Speaker4: [00:16:08] Martin is the owner of a vehicle that was struck. By Mrs. Love's car. So. So what happened is she did not correctly. She didn't, you know, turn on the emergency brake or whatever. And then the station employees did not check the car to make sure that was secure from rolling. It was being taken there for a break job. So the car rolled downhill out of the station lot onto the property and hit the plaintiff and his two kids.
Speaker5: [00:16:42] Oh, yeah. Oh, no.
Speaker4: [00:16:45] So. So Martin and his kids Sue. Ac love the station operator.
Speaker1: [00:16:54] Schneider That's the person I was looking for. That's the person I was curious about. If this was a an independent station that is operating okay.
Speaker4: [00:17:02] Yes. And hence it is relevant to the other case that we're interrupting.
Speaker5: [00:17:07] Yeah. Okay. So real quick, do we know the timeline? Had she literally she stepped out of the car and it rolled, like.
Speaker4: [00:17:14] Right. She parked. She takes the car. She's like, Hey, I'm here for a break job. Doesn't turn on the emergency brakes, walks away. The station station agent is like, Yeah, let me finish the smoke first. The car rolls down the hill, hits Martin and and the kids and and there's a lawsuit, and it's like, okay, who's going to pay for these injuries? So Humble Oil says we are not liable because W.T. Schneider is an independent contractor. The station manager. If the station manager is an independent contractor, then there is no liability. The liability would would reside with Schneider, the owner of the service station. And probably AC love for negligently failing to secure her car before she walked away for it to get a brake job. Okay. So. So everything turns on whether humble oil, this this big oil company with plenty of money acquired by Exxon. As as Jeff points out, I didn't know that is going to pay for these injuries to Martin and in the kids. The court looks at. The following facts. There's an agreement called a commission Agency agreement. Between Schneider and Humble Oil. Schneider Didn't the the other piece of evidence is Schneider did not consider Humble Oil an employer. The employees of the service station were paid by Schneider. They referred to Schneider as the boss.
Speaker4: [00:18:54] There's a part of the commission agency agreement that expressly. Repudiates any authority of humble over this station employees. So they have this contract. The contract says we don't control any of your employees at the service station, but the court says that doesn't that doesn't give us the answer, because there are other facts that suggest that there was more than just a contract relationship going on here. So here's the other evidence. Humble oil had the right to control. A whole bunch of aspects of how the station was run. And so the court looks at some of these factors and says, hmm, we think that this is a principal agent slash master servant slash employee relationship where humble oil needs to be responsible for what happens at this station. So what are those facts? Okay. They point out that Humble has a lot of control over this station, so they have the ability to significantly financially control and supervise the station. So much so that the court says this isn't even really an independent service station. This service station is really just a marketing enterprise for humble oil products. So the main object of the station was to deliver the oil, the gas, the products to the consumers. There's a strict system of financial control and supervision by humble and very little or no business discretion for Schneider except who to hire, who to fire, who to pay, and supervision of the employees.
Speaker4: [00:20:38] So he's more or less just a manager for them. They provided the station location, all the equipment, all of the advertising, and a significant part of the operating costs. They control the hours of operation and they only. Right that Schneider even had to be. There was this commission agency agreement which Humble could end at any time. He didn't even have a lease agreement for the physical property. They owned the property. So the rentals were based. The quote unquote, rentals paid by Schneider to humble oil was based upon a basically a commission sales agreement. It was how much oil or gas was sold at the station, determine how much Schneider made. But essentially it required Schneider to do anything they told him to do. He was essentially a a store clerk, they say, who's paid a commission instead of a salary. And so for all these reasons, the court says there is way too much control here. Buy humble oil for them to distance themselves and not be considered the principal here. They are controlling almost every aspect of this business. And Mr. Schneider, poor Mr. Schneider is really just he's just a manager. He's just a, you know, Pulp Fiction reference, like I'm.
Billy: [00:21:58] Just a coffee shop.
Speaker4: [00:21:59] Manager. You know, he literally has no control except for who he hires. And so the court says, no, we're going to hold humble oil responsible to pay for the injuries to Martin and the kids because this was essentially their station. They were essentially in control and they are essentially responsible for whatever happens there, including a car that's not secured, rolls down the hill across the street and hits two kids.
Speaker5: [00:22:30] It's totally their station. It's not like you can get gas from somebody else.
Speaker4: [00:22:34] Right. It's totally exclusive. So that's an important factor that they say it's not like he can choose multiple products because they compare they contrast this to another case called Texas Company versus Wheat W88, where a dealer type of relationship is different when the station is owning the property that's on. It's just like franchising for the gas. But the but the actual physical location is owned by the station. And in that case, in the Texas company case, the court says there the station manager sold the product as his own and he was free to sell it at whatever price he wanted to sell it. He could sell it cash or credit, whatever he wanted to. He could choose the products of the Texas company and also set to sell other oil products. It didn't require him to do any specific duties. He didn't have to pay the operating expenses or control the working hours of the station. So this is really a continuum of control where the court here is saying when you get to a certain level of control and here the court saying it's too much control, it's so much control that we're going to hold the humble oil company responsible for everything that happens there. Now the case that we are interrupting and that's live on stage at the Lyric Hyperion with the Ledge Theater goes a different way.
Speaker5: [00:23:57] Quick question about the case that we're talking about right now. What were the injuries like? How severe were the injuries? Was anyone maimed or older?
Speaker4: [00:24:07] Well, it doesn't say what their exact injuries are here. What it does say is with a little bit more detail. Is this an Austin, Texas? The unoccupied automobile was left at the filling station and before anyone touched it, it rolled off by gravity, off the premises and obliquely across the abutting street, striking Mr. Martin and his children from behind as they were walking into the yard of their home a short distance downhill from the station. So it doesn't say what their specific injuries are or how much money is involved. But I'm imagining that getting hit by a car rolling downhill is going to be not small injuries, especially when they're little kids who.
Speaker5: [00:24:54] Yeah. Oh, total bummer. Interesting. So. So go ahead. I was just curious about that.
Speaker1: [00:25:04] So this happened in 1949. We're talking about a car that could be sticks, sticks and wires of a model T or it could be like a Chrysler airflow, like. Right.
Speaker5: [00:25:18] Like the earliest chunk of metal.
Speaker1: [00:25:21] Beautiful forties. Mercury's then kids got herded.
Speaker5: [00:25:26] Yeah.
Speaker1: [00:25:27] And kids got herded a lot.
Speaker5: [00:25:29] Oh, what a bummer. It just seems so grisly.
Speaker1: [00:25:33] Mm hmm. Grizzly with an ass and not twosies, right?
Speaker5: [00:25:36] Mm hmm. All kinds of grisly.
Speaker4: [00:25:44] The jury noted that the station didn't inspect the love car to see if the emergency brake was set or whether it was engaged in park. You know, the gears were engaged. Oh, my God. They didn't set the emergency brake. They left it unattended. And that essentially Mrs. Love had handed over the car. They had control of it. The accident was not unavoidable. And there was nothing that Martin or his kids had done wrong that put them at fault for the injury.
Speaker5: [00:26:16] Yeah. No.
Speaker4: [00:26:18] Yeah, yeah. You get hit from behind by a car rolling across the street. But, you know, there is there are doctrines that say if you if you are part of your own injury, then that can, you know, interfere with your recovery. It's it's interesting lawyers, we get very we get very into the who's responsible and how do we divide it up. And very little time is spent concerning ourselves with the human cost, especially in 1949 with the the real human cost and the impact on people. One of our cases, my guest found out halfway through that a bunch of people died in the.
Billy: [00:26:52] Case and they're like, Whoa, that's.
Speaker4: [00:26:53] A surprise. Like, Oh yeah, but we're just talking about principle agency situation, man.
Speaker1: [00:27:00] That is a through line from laying down the law, especially with this focus for earmark is. But what about the people? How were they hurt? How much did you get things right? And Billy's like, we don't care.
Speaker4: [00:27:11] Yeah, lawyers don't care. I mean.
Billy: [00:27:14] It's not relevant to these cases.
Speaker4: [00:27:16] It's not relevant to the case law. I mean, lawyers care in the sense that the economics of it define whether or not you're going to take the case, because if it's not serious injuries, it's not worth it. That's why all the billboards say serious injuries, only because it's a little injury. It's not worth it's not worth the time. It's not worth the money.
Speaker5: [00:27:32] Don't call us.
Speaker4: [00:27:33] Don't call us serious injuries. Only you. You know, if you're calling Larry Parker and you're hoping to get $2.1 million, that better be a real serious injury. Jeff, how are we doing on our contractual obligations to earmark?
Speaker5: [00:27:46] Well, we want to know what happened, right?
Speaker4: [00:27:49] That's the whole case. It's a short one.
Speaker1: [00:27:51] Yeah, but you didn't actually tell us what happened. What was the decision?
Speaker5: [00:27:54] Oh, yeah.
Speaker1: [00:27:55] That's kind of a critical piece of the thing.
Speaker4: [00:27:58] You know, I apologize. You know, here's the thing. Let me tell you something about that. I am so much more interested in the analysis because the outcome never matters. The outcome is always who's paying my bill. Now, I can argue it both ways. I can argue it based upon humble oil. Versus Martin in which humble oil was responsible. It was found liable because there was too much control exerted, so much control, in fact, that the court, the appellate court said that. Humble oil could be on the hook for all the injuries suffered by the Martin family because this was their station. They they own it. They control it. They set the hours and there were significant control and supervision, which basically turned it into a retail marketing enterprise. Now there's a dissent that says Mrs. Love is not responsible because she handed over the car to the station.
Speaker5: [00:29:05] Yeah, she's she's scot free, right?
Speaker4: [00:29:09] Yeah, that's the argument. Ultimately, though, she was held responsible because she didn't set the brake and she didn't know either. So even though she handed them the keys, she left it. She left it to roll down the hill.
Speaker1: [00:29:21] There's this whole assumption.
Billy: [00:29:26] I mean, you can get in. Say, can you.
Speaker4: [00:29:28] Fix the brakes on my car? You know, I left the engine running and it's not in park, but, you know, here you go.
Speaker5: [00:29:35] I mean, I can't just get out of my car no matter the circumstances and just let it roll down. No, it's once there's a little responsibility on her part. Right.
Speaker1: [00:29:45] And there's. And there's an assumption, like by the people at the service station, if this lady is leaving her car with a brake issue, that she takes the proper care to ensure it won't roll free.
Speaker4: [00:29:58] Right, Right.
Speaker1: [00:29:59] Like, cause you know.
Speaker5: [00:30:01] Right. I mean. I mean, we don't know that the brakes were completely inoperative and she couldn't apply the brake. You know what I mean? It's not like.
Speaker4: [00:30:12] That's not a matter of fact.
Speaker5: [00:30:13] If that's the case, then then, of course, she's not responsible. But I don't think that's.
Speaker1: [00:30:20] She didn't put a brick on the ground either.
Speaker4: [00:30:21] So, yeah, she didn't do anything to set it like, you know.
Speaker1: [00:30:25] She didn't do anything to her that her car was going to stay where it was.
Speaker5: [00:30:29] Oh, my God, It's such a bummer. But at least, I mean, I think that family did better than if. She had actually hit them herself. You know what I mean, at least. A huge oil company.
Speaker4: [00:30:41] Right. But. But when I get hired by the huge oil company, you can bet I'm going to be analogizing to Sun Oil. The next case in my law school textbook, the one that we're talking about in the episode we're interrupting in which the oil company was found not responsible under almost the same facts.
Speaker5: [00:31:00] Really? Yes.
Billy: [00:31:02] Oh, the sun oil.
Speaker4: [00:31:04] It went the other way under almost entirely the same facts. Sun Oil had exceeding amounts of control over the station there. But the court said not so much. It's an independent station. This guy works for himself. That the station manager? Not our problem.
Speaker5: [00:31:21] Okay. See? They were corrupt already.
Speaker1: [00:31:23] Different state. No, it's not corrupt. It was a different state.
Speaker5: [00:31:26] No. Well, they were already banned. Certainly. See?
Speaker4: [00:31:30] Here we go. Oil's Delaware. You're right. And 1965. And humble oil is Texas. 49, Texas 49. But you would think the principles of law, like principle and agency, would would transcend state law.
Speaker1: [00:31:44] I'm sorry. Are you suggesting that there would be some kind of precedent and that we use that in future decisions to base the.
Speaker4: [00:31:52] Focus of the court? Well, you don't follow this precedent from another state, but there is something called the restatement of law, which is kind of a a club of lawyers and judges who get together and like, what is the law? Generally speaking, that's evolved and all over the place. And we're going to restate it in a way that is more confusing. And you.
Speaker5: [00:32:12] Know what? Yeah, I have had it. I have had it with the unfairness, with the shenanigans, with the whims of the court and the justice system that has no regard for For what? Just no.
Billy: [00:32:31] Regard for the.
Speaker4: [00:32:32] Matter here for real people.
Speaker5: [00:32:33] Wait for real people? Yeah. And like, what happens next to them? Yeah, I'm leaving. I can't take anymore. Goodbye. Okay. Bye, Pia. But where. But where will you go?
Speaker4: [00:32:49] Bye, Pia. So, restatement of law in humble oil. Mm hmm. The oil companies found liable in Hoover, Sun Oil. They're found not liable even though they have a son school for service station operators. They have weekly visits of a sale representative, a competitive allowance system, And the agent of Sun Oil would come by and give, quote unquote, advice to how to run the business operation. But the station manager set his own hours, set the pay scale and working conditions of the employees, and his name was listed as the proprietor. Sun Oil had signs saying it was their station advertising. The employees wear uniforms with Sun Oil on it. All the equipment was owned by Sun. The rent was determined based upon how much was purchased, and there was an agreement in which Barone, the manager, was allowed to buy other products, but with mostly supposed to buy sun products. So if you are the lawyer, you're a big oil company, come to you said, you know what we want to do, here's what we're big oil.
Billy: [00:34:00] What we want to do is we want to make the maximum.
Speaker4: [00:34:03] Amount of money. With the least amount of exposure so that whatever happens on our service stations, if someone gets caught and got caught on fire, we don't care what it costs. If the car rolls off and hits somebody, we don't care about that. If one of your one of your employees is smoking a cigaret and tosses it and causes a massive explosion, that's going to be on us. But as long as you're making money, we want to make money.
Billy: [00:34:25] So what do we what do we.
Speaker4: [00:34:28] Lawyers just.
Billy: [00:34:29] Tell us? How do we set.
Speaker4: [00:34:30] Up our contracts to ensure that we pay $0 out when bad things happen and get 100 cents on the dollar when good things happen? How do we do that? Based upon these.
Speaker1: [00:34:39] Types, The Court With accommodating justices. Hmm.
Billy: [00:34:43] So what you're saying is we need.
Speaker4: [00:34:45] To we need to contribute to some of these campaigns For these. That's right. Well, Judge. Okay. That's a very practical point. But let's say you're here to write the contract. So you're in Write the contract where you put in a contract.
Speaker5: [00:35:00] They had learned their lesson from the previous cases where oil got in trouble.
Speaker4: [00:35:05] Yeah, well, here's the thing that you do. If you're a lawyer, you say first you need to pay my retainer.
Speaker5: [00:35:13] And then you say.
Speaker4: [00:35:15] And then you say, It depends.
Speaker5: [00:35:18] Yeah.
Speaker4: [00:35:19] Filibuster. Right. Until you burn up the retainer.
Speaker1: [00:35:23] Oh, sorry. You have to go to actual courts now.
Speaker4: [00:35:26] I'll say it depends. You say it depends. And essentially, you. You know, I guess I'm answering my question, but. So some of the factors that that the courts looking at here to determine whether you're going to be on the hook as the big oil company selling oil a little station is is this your actually your property? Is this are they only selling your products? Are you setting the hours of operation? Are you setting the prices? Are you telling them how to run the station or are you letting them run the station? Pretty much. But you're just taking the, you know, sort of skimming off the top. And so what I would probably advise an oil company to do if they were going to try to avoid liability in the case of humble oil.
Speaker1: [00:36:13] Establish an exclusive distributorship.
Speaker4: [00:36:15] Mm hmm. Distributorship agreement where it's the. Owner of the gas station is going to own the lease or the rent or the property, first of all. Second. They're going to set their own hours. You're going to say you can be open at whatever time you want to be open. You can be closed whatever time you want to be closed. You have quality control, recommendations and standards, but you're not. And you do inspections to make sure that they are in basically in compliance, but you're not necessarily financially holding them to account. You let them sell other products. Maybe you can sell the motor oil inside can be from a couple of different brands. But you know, what's at the pump outside is your stuff. You know, you have the sign, but you let them sell whatever brand of cigarets they want inside. Pretty much what a gas station looks like today.
Speaker1: [00:37:07] How would an accountant. Hear this and tuck it in their pocket for future use as an accountant.
Speaker4: [00:37:16] The most useful thing that the accountant can do if this question ever comes up, is to refer it to the law offices of William D. Clark.
Speaker5: [00:37:30] So I can use more than one sentence.
Speaker4: [00:37:32] To answer that question and tell their client that I'm not a lawyer. You should probably consult a lawyer. The financial dealings are relevant to the determination of ownership and control. And so which aspects are are inside of the business, whether you're representing the big company that's franchising out to a smaller sub or whether you own whether you're representing the sub that is in a financial relationship with some kind of a franchisor is is which which items fall on which side of the line can matter in terms of liability. And so having separate books from the franchise or franchisee relationship and determining what how the transactions are characterized mattered a lot in these cases, you know, whether something was a royalty or whether something was a a fee or whether something was rent or whether something was calculated as commission, as commissions impacted, whether there was an element of ownership and control. And so more of the transactions that look like keeping ownership and control inside of the. The agent in the relationship, the rent, the payment of wages, the setting of prices, the, you know, the financial dealings of the individual station point toward an independent contract relationship because that business is operating as a business and its relationship with the principal, purported principal or the franchisor. When it's characterized as royalty or costs of goods, napkins, straws, gasoline. Products. Where there's a bargain for exchange for value. Stops looking like control so much. So if the inspections are being done by the, you know, on a quality control basis. Hmm. You know, mystery shoppers, it's going to look less like a ownership and control principal agent relationship if it's their specific financial incentives tied to how it's how the station is run, it's going to start looking more like an employment employee relationship. The other thing, too, that you're going to tell your client as you're referring them to the loft is a William D. Clark. And telling them they're going to need to write a big retainer check. Thank you very much.
Billy: [00:40:08] The other thing you're going to tell.
Speaker4: [00:40:09] Them is that it depends. It's a sliding scale and you can't get you're not going to get in these kind of situations 100%. Comfort. That it will never be characterized one way or another, because here we have two cases that are very, very close to the line and you could not call them balls and strikes based. If I just told you the facts, they all these cases could go either way, which is why they end up in law school textbooks. Right? Because the facts are their little shades. And know one of my favorite books of late is allow me to retort by Elie Mystal, in which Elie Mystal explains it. A lot of what's supposedly balls and strikes is backward reasoning from the result you want. And a good lawyer. Good judges are lawyers and a good lawyer. A good judge is going to be able to reason backwards from whatever result they want. And so being able to understand what kind of reasoning and what kind of arguments are in play are what I'm going to push you to one side of the other where you want to go. Good advocacy, good lawyering. Big retainers are the things that matter. Well, I want to thank Pia for dropping by and then leaving abruptly. And I want to thank Lauren for showing up on short notice to do this little drop in bit in order to meet our contractual obligations to earmark CPE. And now we're going to take you back to the live show at the Lyric Hyperion Theater with the Ledge. Oh, I almost forgot, Jeff.
Speaker1: [00:41:43] Thank you. Don't make it weird, man.
Billy: [00:41:51] And the answer is, Steven is the winner. That is correct. Not responsible in any way. Do you have a warrior now, Mom? Do the principles of law in this Business Association's book, of which I've told you nothing.
Chris: [00:42:06] And you guys didn't hear it when he got away. But he did go back and re-explain how oil is made.
Billy: [00:42:12] Yes. Twice so accurate.
Hans: [00:42:15] And there was dinosaurs involved?
Billy: [00:42:17] Yeah. One of them.
Chris: [00:42:22] One of them did say it's a living.
Billy: [00:42:28] All right. Hey, I just wanted to thank you so much for giving me a ride.
Chris: [00:42:36] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I was just going to drop you off here. Is that all right?
Billy: [00:42:42] Oh, no. Yeah, that's perfectly fine. Yeah, just. You can pull up right here and I'll hop out. Oh, just one more thing. Yeah. I'm going to just pop in there. It'd be great if you could wait for me. I You just be a couple of minutes. Okay. Give me a ride afterwards. I'm just going to pop in. I'm just going to, you know, spray a little this rolling spray on deodorant over the cameras. I'm just going to pull down this balaclava that I've got. I'm just going to ask the cashiers. Give me any money you've got or else I'll snap your neck or use this knife, and then I'll come back out here with some money, and then we'll just head home. I'm taking, like, 3 minutes, tops. If it runs the way my plan said, I should be out in 230.
Chris: [00:43:23] So I'm not an attorney. But what you just described sounds like a robbery.
Billy: [00:43:30] Oh, man. Come on.
Hans: [00:43:33] Hey, Paul. He looks funny to.
Billy: [00:43:37] So you're leaning way over the seat. Listen, I thank you so much.
Hans: [00:43:41] You're fascinating. I have never seen anybody just like you.
Billy: [00:43:46] I also.
Hans: [00:43:47] That's a pretty shirt you got on to.
Billy: [00:43:49] Thank you. It's silk. Gets to distract the camera. I've got a plane workshop.
Hans: [00:43:53] It's silky.
Billy: [00:43:54] Thank you. Your daughter's really handsy.
Chris: [00:43:58] We prefer the term hands forward.
Billy: [00:44:02] But, I mean, it's not a robbery, all right? What I'm doing is I'm aggressively redistributing wealth, all right? We don't need these banks and these oil fat cats holding on to all the money. I'm going in there and I'm being a modern day Robin Hood. I'm stealing from the rich and giving to the me.
Chris: [00:44:21] So I got to say, you make a very convincing case. So I tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to leave the car here. I'm going to leave it running. I'm going to suggest you put some of the money in my trunk. And that way I will not be abetting your robbery because you are free to not put the money in my trunk.
Billy: [00:44:43] I enjoy your suggestion. I take a good note. And I also say maybe because of that great idea of you leaving the trunk open all maybe leave a little extra because I got a pretty good feeling that Cheryl in the back is going to need some help paying for college.
Hans: [00:44:59] Huh? Can I stay and watch him shoot somebody?
Chris: [00:45:02] I will suggest that you climb up in the sunroof and lean forward, Record it on your phone, and then we will sell the footage to someone who will put it on YouTube. All right. But you can make your own choice. All right. I speak more slowly when I'm being deceptive.
Billy: [00:45:25] Can you do me a favor? I really appreciate it. She didn't record it. I mean, I'm not wearing the balaclava yet.
Chris: [00:45:30] Okay. Is that an order?
Billy: [00:45:33] That'll work for you. That's true. All right.
Chris: [00:45:35] I may be taking money from you to do a.
Billy: [00:45:38] Service, but I don't work for.
Hans: [00:45:40] You. That's right. My dad just gave you a ride. You should be.
Billy: [00:45:42] Grateful. Cheryl, could you please stop licking my ear? Sorry. Hey, you.
Hans: [00:45:46] Got hair.
Billy: [00:45:46] In it?
Chris: [00:45:48] She's right. You do have hair in the air, and it is now slicked back.
Billy: [00:45:54] So I'm just going to go in there and I'm going to come right back. All right. All right. So wait here.
Chris: [00:46:00] Car's waiting right here. Right.
Billy: [00:46:03] Corridor noise. Well, I'm happy to be of service here. Take this entire bag of money. I don't need it at all. Thank you. I'm sorry I was mumbling at you so much. I apologize. I got really nervous, and I got, like, lockjaw. It was crazy. No, I saw you two talking. I think it happened last week to the very loquacious. Rob was having an elaborate plan, and they come in and I keep an extra bag of money for you right here. You see, I value my livelihood much more than my money. Well, I mean, your name's not on the bank, right? It's not. All right. I'm going to head out to what is essentially a getaway Uber at this point. Shoot him. Shoot him. I want more legs. No, shoot him. Hey, Cheryl, stop it. This guy's really nice. Oh, is that your daughter? She's a god. No, I mean, no. I mean, that was rude.
Chris: [00:46:54] I'm right here either way.
Billy: [00:46:57] I'm so sorry. What I mean is, I don't have children. I don't want children. This. I'm getting really open with you. I'm sorry. Can I talk to you? I don't think I'm ready for kids. I mean, look at what I'm doing with my life. Did you tell them Two and one half to three you'll be in here? Oh, Christ. I got to go. Thank you so much. Oh, no. You know what? This is for you. Oh, no, This is for you. I appreciate that. No. And this one. Hey. What? This one's got a dye pack. This one's definitely for you. That one little step. Oh, ruined. But at least my logo is okay. Boy, is your face, Red. Oh, God. Oh, God. I'm so sorry. Oh, no. Okay. We should were left in this episode. We should go a lot faster.
Chris: [00:47:41] Are you done.
Billy: [00:47:42] Recording? No.
Chris: [00:47:44] Wait a minute. You got to hold one minute and everybody got to be quiet. So we get room tone.
Hans: [00:47:47] I want to identify two.
Billy: [00:47:49] No, no, Cheryl, please don't aim that in my face. I strongly suggest that we go ahead and move along and get back to my safe house.
Chris: [00:47:58] As long as it's not an order.
Billy: [00:47:59] It's not an order. It's just a polite request. Gentlemen, you've been parked here for more than 15 minutes.
Chris: [00:48:05] Oh.
Billy: [00:48:06] And the meter is expired here. I'm thinking about writing you a ticket. Oh, please. You know what? Let me pay for the meter with this stack of $100 bills. Oh, I'll just change this into quarters. Oh, God. Dammit. What have I done? Are we going to be here forever? Oh, man. Wait, wait. We just don't have to wait for the change. I feel so stupid. Let's just go. Let's go. All right. Like, faster, though. I mean, like. Like. Like. I mean, it's not a getaway. It's. I don't mean to tell you how to drive, but you have evoked Cadillacs.
Hans: [00:48:39] To.
Chris: [00:48:39] The speed of electricity. Surprisingly slow.
Hans: [00:48:43] Daddy likes to.
Billy: [00:48:44] Cruise. Yeah. Please stop rubbing my shoulders when you say the word cruise every time I let it.
Chris: [00:48:50] Silky. Oh, are.
Billy: [00:48:51] Tense. Yes, I'm very tense. I would like to get to my safe house, please.
Chris: [00:48:57] All right.
Speaker5: [00:48:57] Oh! Whoo!
Chris: [00:49:01] I'm not trying to pull over. I've just run out of battery.
Billy: [00:49:05] Hello? I'm just wondering if you could show me directions. You see, I found that in America. If I just make a little siren type noise, people will give me directions. You know which way it is to the the nearest service station.
Chris: [00:49:17] Well, you are the most adorable Cockney boot. Black I have seen in the last day.
Billy: [00:49:21] Are you holding a chimney broom? Well, I just want to dance on down the road.
Hans: [00:49:27] Daddy, He's got no upper lip.
Billy: [00:49:32] So it's direction. Should I go dance?
Chris: [00:49:35] At this point? I'm going to say that way to the skin graft.
Billy: [00:49:40] Oh. Oh, wait. Well, not a second. Is there little chemistry going on between that Cockney boot bark and your daughter, Cheryl? I think I see a couple of sparks there.
Chris: [00:49:50] I think something's on fire.
Billy: [00:49:54] Oh. Oh, it's him. Oh, it's him. It's all of a sudden. Oh, God, no. I didn't think I was going to die twice in this episode. How a spoonful of sugar really helps the self self-immolation go down.
Chris: [00:50:10] Eddie. So. Look. I'm going to say. We at Sun Oil, We've done a lot of bad things. Sure, we've taken over small countries, imposed democratically elected regimes. We polluted schools. Water.
Billy: [00:50:35] Don't forget about the copyright violation.
Chris: [00:50:37] Exactly. Exactly. We stole our business from Sun Records. Colonel Tom Parker almost beat the shit out of me in a in a parking lot back there, Which is ironic because of his name.
Hans: [00:50:49] That's right. That's right. And then that was a Phillips guy. He showed.
Chris: [00:50:52] Up. That's right. That's right. They always had a real million dollar quartet on my face.
Hans: [00:50:57] Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Can I get another beer?
Chris: [00:51:00] But what I'm saying is we've done a lot of bad things.
Hans: [00:51:04] Well, they weren't necessarily bad.
Chris: [00:51:06] Well, they were. What's the opposite of good?
Hans: [00:51:08] They were.
Billy: [00:51:09] Questionable. Exactly.
Hans: [00:51:10] Let's put it that way.
Chris: [00:51:11] That's questionable. That's what.
Billy: [00:51:12] Say like four or five of those things were objectively bad.
Chris: [00:51:17] Oh, you mean like when we bought that that that ten gallons of oil into that giant tub of formula and then sold it to children?
Billy: [00:51:24] Yeah, that one was one of the ones I was thinking was objectively bad.
Chris: [00:51:27] Yeah. Because we didn't make any money off it or anything. No, no general sociopathy.
Billy: [00:51:33] I mean, we were just like, Hey, can we get away with oily baby formula? He turns out you.
Chris: [00:51:38] Can.
Billy: [00:51:39] Just get really nice waivers in advance.
Hans: [00:51:42] It's true. But it was just questionable because the original ingredients said you should put an olive oil. We did not have the olive oil. So what did you say? Use motor oil.
Chris: [00:51:51] You know it's oil. To be honest. This formula was going to kill some babies already because they were making it with olive oil. And that is not a good way to me. I'm not a parent, you understand, because I'm not legally allowed to be that close to them. But but I think the formula was the problem to begin with. We really just kind of probably made it better.
Billy: [00:52:11] Yeah, I'd say that it was already a rocket ship to a shithole we just put on a bigger engine. Exactly.
Chris: [00:52:17] Yeah, exactly. You know what? Maybe. Maybe we're not good people, right?
Billy: [00:52:22] Definitely not.
Chris: [00:52:23] But very existence has made the world a worse place.
Hans: [00:52:26] My mother always said I was a good person.
Chris: [00:52:28] That's true. That's true. And what about her? Your mother? My mother is dead and she died.
Hans: [00:52:34] In a questionable.
Chris: [00:52:35] Way.
Billy: [00:52:37] If I recall, she died murdering a bunch of other people. That's right. Was the rifle malfunction, for example? That's right. There was it was a water pistol that was filled with sun oil.
Chris: [00:52:49] That's right. It was an old Italian bolt action water pistol filled with sun oil. And she was up, up, up. And what was it that the Texas Water Pistol Depository?
Billy: [00:53:00] Yes. And the people were trying to swim and they couldn't swim and they were sticking all together. And.
Chris: [00:53:04] Exactly. It was the it was the third worst thing to happen in 1962. It was your mom, something I can't remember. And then this guy setting the car on fire.
Billy: [00:53:16] Are you reminiscing about your mom? Yeah. Look on your face. Definitely said you were reminiscing about your mother murdering a bunch of people.
Hans: [00:53:23] She didn't intend to murder. She was cleaning the gun, and she accidentally shot it off 17 times.
Chris: [00:53:29] To be fair, that is man slaughtering people, not murdering people.
Hans: [00:53:32] Exactly.
Chris: [00:53:33] The second is the core.
Hans: [00:53:35] Of the law. Exactly. She did not mean to murder those people. She did not even know who those people were that decided that accidentally shot 17 people.
Chris: [00:53:44] Is it really murder if you do it to strangers?
Billy: [00:53:47] No, it's not.
Speaker5: [00:53:48] See, it's not.
Chris: [00:53:50] Like murder requires real knowledge. Yeah, Yeah.
Billy: [00:53:53] Has to be a personal thing. It's an intimate thing. Exactly. It's a friendship and love. That's right. Now, the author.
Chris: [00:53:59] Says I interpret those words to be.
Billy: [00:54:01] So. Yeah. So we. We didn't know any of those thousands of people that lived down river of that plant. Right. So we didn't murder anybody? Exactly.
Chris: [00:54:10] And your mom, you know what she suggested to the bullets? They should leave the gun. She didn't tell. She didn't make them go. No, she just pointed a gun in a direction. You know what? Her fault. There was a person standing so close in front of.
Hans: [00:54:22] Him, she had absolutely no training with that gun.
Billy: [00:54:25] Exactly. You know who I think is the villain here? The gun in the oil. You know, it's that old saying, people don't kill people, guns kill people. I think I got that backwards.
Chris: [00:54:34] That's right. That's right. My son doesn't kill guns.
Billy: [00:54:37] Don't kill people. People. But I think your mom is the case where, like the gun clearly had it out for those people in scene. That brings us to the end of this week's legal voyage. And I want to thank you for joining me, your captain, on this earmark edition of Laying Down the Law. I'd like to thank my live crew horns.
Speaker4: [00:54:56] Stephen and Chris, as well as our bonus guests with the cleanup job, Jeff.
Billy: [00:55:00] Pia and Lauren for joining.
Speaker4: [00:55:02] Me on this journey into madness. And I want to give a special shout out to Sean Landry in The Ledge Theater for hosting us live at the Lyric Hyperion right here in beautiful Silver Lake, California.
Billy: [00:55:14] And listener, I'd like to thank you for coming along with us. Wherever you are.
Speaker4: [00:55:20] You're also here while you're there via the magic of earmarks CPE. I'd also like to thank the OG cello performance CPA Blake Oliver for building earmark CPE, the mighty little app that makes learning fun and free. Mostly free. But now you can subscribe. Isn't that right, Blake?
Speaker1: [00:55:41] That's right.
Billy: [00:55:42] Billy.
Speaker4: [00:55:42] And speaking of mighty, thank you to the mighty Q Quentin.
Billy: [00:55:46] Fichtner for the mighty cover Art.
Speaker5: [00:55:48] Thank you for the opportunity, Billy and the listeners want some cool art of your own. You can find me my pro dot com.
Speaker4: [00:55:55] Thank you to David Felton for creating the awesome all original music. And a special thank you to Jeff Fichtner Productions.
Billy: [00:56:06] Hey, that's me.
Speaker4: [00:56:08] Yes, Jeff, that is you. Thank you, Jeff, for making a little boy's radio show. Dreams into a middle aged man's podcast Reality.
Billy: [00:56:21] So until next time. Wait. What's this?
Speaker1: [00:56:24] You forgot.
Billy: [00:56:24] Something. What's that? I forgot something you say?
Speaker1: [00:56:27] Yeah. You got to do the thing. You know the thing.
Speaker4: [00:56:30] All right. If you want even more of that delicious little nut butter drenched in comedy chocolate.
Billy: [00:56:38] Find the full version of this and.
Speaker5: [00:56:40] Every amazing episode of.
Billy: [00:56:42] Laying down the law at dotcom or wherever in the metaverse.
Speaker4: [00:56:46] You get your podcasts.
Speaker1: [00:56:48] That's fit. Procom. Find your Productions is not responsible for the preceding comments related to nut butter. If you or someone you know experiences nausea, third eye blindness, sudden onset euphoria, or have an unrelenting craving for ham, seek help immediately. Laying down the law is protected by the Intergalactic Treaty of Euripides. Start 82182190. If you'd like a transcript of the show, please send a self-addressed stamped envelope to Colonel Steve Austin of the Foundation for Law and Government. Two, 21a Baker Street, Beverly Hills 90210. Any likeness to real places, persons or events is absolutely happenstance. We'd never intentionally crib real life happenings to make a podcast. We're not true crime after all. It's more likely a situation similar to the chimpanzees, typewriters and Shakespeare. Right? That's what attorney Steve says anyway. And if you know what's good for a you listen to Attorney Steve. I don't argue with attorney Steve mostly because he ain't right in the head and quite honestly frightens me a little bit. The last time we went to court, the judge started asking him all kinds of weird questions, like, where did you study law and why hasn't the state bar of California ever heard of you? Then attorney Steve started doing this weird, deep breathing meditation kind of thing and muttering under his breath about a monster drug fight and how the judge ain't got nothing on a £15,000, 2000 horsepower fire breathing death, age on wheels, and then the L.A. Heat running with his taser. And honestly, that's the truth. Steve, come with me. There was only traffic, for God's sake.
[00:58:02] I totally parked in the loading.