Judy Cho: Achieving Food Sanity in 2024 - Carnivore Diet, Diet Culture, Emotional Eating | MMP #349

Judy Cho is a board certified animal-based nutrition expert, and author of Carnivore Cure and the Beginner's Guide to Carnivore. 
Judy has transitioned from a successful career in nutrition consulting to becoming a prominent voice in the nutrition & health and wellness community. Having suffered severe health struggles through eating disorders, Judy's aims to provide a plethora of incredible resources to educate and guide individuals on their journey to metabolic flexibility and overall well-being. Judy's work emphasizes a holistic approach, considering not only diet but also sleep, environment, and mental health in achieving optimal health. 

Key topics discussed:

- Metabolic flexibility and the role of the carnivore diet in healing.

- The importance of addressing spiritual, sleep, movement, and environmental factors for overall health.

- The impact of diet culture and how to navigate conflicting nutrition advice.

- The use of food and mood journals to track and manage dietary effects on health.

- The significance of habit formation and consistency in achieving long-term health goals.

Timestamps:

(00:00) - Navigating the Carnivore Diet World

(08:26) - Achieving Health Through Habit Formation

(20:36) - Understanding Core Wounds and Healing Strategies

(28:56) - Overcoming Orthorexia and Finding Balance

(35:49) - Navigating Nutrient-Dense Food Choices

(47:42) - Teaching Kids Healthy Eating Moderation

(50:24) - Navigating Faith and Health in Healing

(57:08) - The Power of Belief and Trust

(01:02:14) - Living Your Values and True Health

(01:13:43) - Building a Holistic Health Community

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Creators & Guests

Host

Brett Ender 🥩⚡️

The food system is corrupt and trying to poison us... I will teach you how to fight back. Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod 🥩

Host

Harry Gray 🥩⚡️

Leading the Red Meat Renaissance 🥩 ⚡️| Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod

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When you listen to our podcast, you will hear stories and conversations from people working on the fringes of the food and healthcare system to address the major crises overshadowing modern society: how do we become healthy again?

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Judy Audio Full Ep
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[00:00:00]

The goal is to get to metabolic flexibility, I can make an argument about everything being toxic in the world, so you gotta pick your battles.

you need the opportunity to heal and a carnivore diet, the ultimate elimination diet allows you to find that healing and then figure out if there's some things beyond that.

Is it spiritual? Is it sleep? Is it you need to move a little bit more? Is it your environment? You will not know that if you're always figuring out, is it the corn? Is it the eggs? Is it the bread? Is it this? Is it that?

Both Harry and myself have learned so much from you about the carnivore space. You do such a good job of that. Just putting out the right information that's truly applicable and really helps, I think, heal people and save their lives.

Yeah, no, thank you. I think, um, because I came into this space first from a consulting side, so you have to tell a story in consulting, um, and be able to pitch a presentation, [00:01:00] whether you're selling it or the results of what you, the work you've done there for the few months you were there, and then because I was so sick and I have healed so much.

I just wanted to share that now. Like now, how do you do it in the carnivore space? And when I first joined, there was literally no graphics, but there was a lot for keto, right? So that was my idea of the carnivore pyramid was because there were keto pyramids. Why isn't there one for carnivore? And, um, and over the years the infographics then ended up making me have a practice, but it's.

Everything I learn I want to share and maybe I'm just wired that way ever since I was little I did want to share I was like the spammer in the French group. I'm like, oh my gosh, stop sending me emails to read But I love learning and then processing and sharing it in sound bites and I don't always do a good job of it But I just think if we if it whether it's infographics whether it's a book whether it's proving in data if we can prove a case Um, and I [00:02:00] think it's really important for people to understand that, um, there's a lot of passion behind it, and, and now with our team, we are really helping people where carnivore sometimes doesn't work perfectly, and so we first try to use levers in the diet to get it better, but sometimes it's beyond the diet, it might be environment and such, but.

Well, between. The last time recorded and now you released your carnivore for beginners guide to carnivore Correct. Yes, that was what like six months ago. It released I think in January. Okay How is the reception into that? Yeah, I think people like it. So when carnivore cure came out it was my oh my gosh Here's everything I learned in a book and and all the concerns we have fiber vitamin C environment Everything you could think of, why are certain plants that we think are superfoods, why are they not ideal, what are plant toxins, uh, how is the sprays on these plants, [00:03:00] all of that, and then holistic health side, because I've always thought sleep, fasting, uh, and a bunch of other things are really important.

Community, that's another thing I brought up in there. And a lot of people said, it's too much. It's too complex. Just tell me how to eat carnivore. What's the basics? And I think it's really hard if you got someone on the street That's obese and said hey just eat all meat. It is such a hard sell So even though I was doing the beginner's diet or beginner's book.

I knew that I needed to include Like here's my arguments for a carnivore diet. And so I needed to I think there's no real diet that you have to prove why it's a better diet, but carnivore you have to. And so I still whittled down the information, but still gave you enough ammo to understand why maybe vitamin C is not as important or why, um, plant based proteins have limiting amino acids, you know, like all of these nuanced things that then we'll be like, okay, fine.

I'm willing to try it. Here's all the chronic diseases that are showing up. And so that's why, um, I partnered with a [00:04:00] publisher to create it and I think the reception is good. Um, I, I still feel like people love Carnivore Cure because there's a lot more detail in it, but if you are just starting and you don't care too much about the science or to the extent I wrote it or you're not as chronically ill, the Beginner's Guide, the graphic, it literally touches everything.

I still try to touch everything. Um, but yeah, I think it's been pretty good. Yeah, we end up referring, like when a lot of people come to us and ask about more of like a playbook for carnivore. We ended up sending a lot of people like towards your podcast and your channel, because I think the amazing thing about your brand is that if you want to go really detailed and really nuanced, you can do that.

But if you also want to keep it more high level and applicable, you also have that type of content as well. And we were talking before we recorded, I would imagine as a beginner entering the space, it's probably really difficult to figure out. What path you should go down because the internet has changed so much in the comp in the context of nutrition where it's like I'm trying to figure out the diet to [00:05:00] follow, you know grass fed.

Do I grass fed me? Do I green fed me organs? Not organs fruits. No fruits It's really tough to figure out like what's a really good playbook to just like open up and start so I can get healthier and Improve my hormone hormone markers and things like that. Yeah, I think that I saw a meme not or maybe it was a real But it was a it was a person saying When I listened to all the wellness recommendations on the internet and then it's like basically you can do nothing because one person says eat sugar.

Another person says don't eat sugar or this water, that water, sun, you know, circadian rhythm. And I think ultimately the reason why there's so many voices, yes, I think polarization makes it popular. You get more views. Um, I think the bigger reason is because we are all so different. Like you came to carnival differently than you and for me too.

And, and so our views of what works for carnivore is different and then it, plus our lifestyle, plus our genes, plus our medical history and our mental health and et cetera. I think that's the [00:06:00] reason so much confusion. You know, we're talking offline, but with Dr. Saladino, when he's like, carnivore doesn't work and he adds fruit, like I believe it didn't work for him in that sense.

And he band aids something that, with fruit or, you know, You have more water retention, right? So like for him that was a true issue for me I don't work out as much as him and I didn't have that electrolyte issue. So I never needed to add fruit So I think that's where I get it as a beginner carnivore. It gets really confusing and then there's I mean I think when anything becomes popular, there's bad players.

I do believe that as a faith based person, you know, the the The smartest thing about the dark side is that the, you know, the enemy makes you believe that he doesn't exist. And so we think that no one is evil, no one is bad. But we believe that there's snake oil salesmen that sell bad things, but how many can you really list on your hand?

So we know all these things and we don't really process it. And so I just think there are people that are in it for their bad reasons or [00:07:00] the wrong reasons. I get so many messages now of, I've been carnivore for 20 years, 30 years, and I'm like, where did you come from, you know? And, and maybe they really ate that way, and they didn't share.

I, I don't know. But, uh, it's just, that's why it gets so confusing, because the average person just wants to get better. And there's so many different voices, like, eat grass finished, eat organ meats, um, eat salmon, or eat water, or drink water, and, I think ultimately, that's where I go back to the Food and Mood Journal.

That's where I believe people should believe in their own biofeedback. Your body's symptoms are the number one way to know if something is working or not working, and that if you're giving it an earnest or honest try. Mm hmm. What's your general take on diet culture? Like, from my standpoint, it's, it's really hard, um, thinking about people who are struggling with their health, and then having to navigate through.

All the different narratives that are out there. So I'm curious just to get your general take on it. Like, like how would you help someone through the, just the fog of diet culture? [00:08:00] I would, I would do a little bit of research on maybe the most popular diets and then seeing what you want to commit to first, right?

So like, knowing if there's a Mediterranean diet, if there's a keto, carnivore, vegetarian, or vegan, and then what you Do you think you could stick to more consistently and then try it? Do your blood work beforehand, do it and then try it for three months. Don't listen to any of the noise. And then if it's not working, then maybe try another one of the diets.

I, that's how I did it. I thought plant based was the healthiest. I did it for 12 years and it totally wrecked me. And then when I did carnivore, my life has changed, right? So I just think that people cannot be forced to eat a certain way. And if they're not ready, they will not eat it. So we, eat. As much as I promote carnivore, I'm not a hundred percent strict anymore.

I talk about that all the time on my podcast. I consider myself more meat based because some days I'll have only meat and some days I'll have like a little bit of veggies or something like maybe a keto treat. Um, but it's, it's more that you need [00:09:00] the opportunity to heal and a carnivore diet, the ultimate elimination diet allows you to find that healing.

And then, figure out if there's some things beyond that. Is it spiritual? Is it sleep? Is it, um, you need to move a little bit more? Is it your environment? You will not know that if you're always figuring out, is it the corn? Is it the eggs? Is it the bread? Is it this? Is it that? Why not just go to a really strict diet?

So I would recommend a carnivore all meat elimination diet, but a lot of people are not ready for it. So then i'll just say to the average like if we run into my cousins who are super against all of that I'll say just remove all the processed foods Like, don't, don't eat sugar. The sugar is what's making you get tired in the afternoon, not letting you sleep through the night.

These are not normal things that should be happening. And, and so then I just start there. And then if they have more questions, like, well, what else are you eating? And then I might bring up, oh, like that has a lot of ex plant toxins. I bring up gluten first because people understand gluten. And then you say, well, every plant has some toxin because they're trying to protect itself.[00:10:00]

You, you were mentioning, um, a food and mood journal. Is that something that, when you were healing, is that something that you were very, like, religious about, um, adhering to? Because, for me, I, I think I probably ended up doing something similar to you, where I would write out the timing of my meals, I would also write out the amount of sleep that I would get, and then I would write out my energy levels on a scale of one to four, and then I would record, like, the number of bowel movements that I was having.

That's great. And then through that I was able to basically figure out like pattern recognition of like, okay, this food, this time worked really well. And then I was basically able to eliminate a lot of the foods that weren't working for me and that was ultimately what helped me heal from UC, but I'd love to learn a little bit more about that, that food and mood journal and how you do it.

Yeah, so, um, that is exactly how we would recommend our clients to use it. I didn't use that as much just because I struggled more from the mental health side eating disorder. I didn't have a gut issue. I mean, I did have gut issues compared to now, but it wasn't anything severe. I used, so in our nutritional, in our, [00:11:00] eating disorder facility.

I learned about intuitive eating and mindful eating, being hyper aware of what you're eating, how you're feeling. I did use the food and mood journal while I was going through nutritional therapy school. So they wanted you to write down what you felt did a supplement help. And so for those things I did feel like, Oh, I noticed that when I take this small intestine support, my gut feels less bloated.

So like those things I noticed from our client perspective. So we give out our carnivore care elimination diet protocol for free. It's on our website. We give out the food and mood journal for free because We try to stand for wellness for all that will all of that's free when that's not working Then you can consider working with us, but in the food and mood journal we have What time did you wake up?

What time did you go to bed? And then what did you eat water? Supplements medication mood right after eating so it is up to you how detailed you get but I firmly believe what you don't measure you can't manage and so When someone on the internet's like ribeye makes me feel the best you can try it But if it doesn't make you feel the best How do you know if you're not tracking?

If [00:12:00] you eat it for five days in a row, you know it's not making you feel right, but how do you know it's not the water you drink with it or the supplement you took with it? But if you track everything and then start isolating, you are your best answer. Yes. And so that's how I would do it. But people need to get ready or be willing to be eating that certain diet.

How important is a habit formation in the whole grand scheme of just getting healthier? Cause I do think that that is probably something that a lot of people just generally struggle with, like forming new habits. If you're already unhealthy, it makes it that much harder. So I'm curious, like, how do you approach that, that problem?

Yeah, so I'm a big fan of Win the Day. When I was struggling, when I was writing my book, I used that. And, um, really simply, I think of it like, What is your six month goal? Like where do you want to be? What do you see? What is your value and what is your priority? So let's say for me, I'm revising carnivore cure and we're making a version two.

It's not going to be called carnivore care, but let's say that was my end goal in six months. So then I think, okay, well, that's a big goal to finish in six months. So [00:13:00] maybe then what is my today that I need to do and what can I allocate? So maybe it's just two hours a day. I just need to write a paragraph.

And that's how you then, start stacking habits and then you start like, Oh, now, now writing a paragraph is so easy. Maybe I moved to a page a day. And so that's how you can, for a diet, if you are eating a lot of processed foods or carbs and it's really hard for you to reduce that, maybe you just start with, and if the goal is in six months, you want to lose 50 pounds or you want to feel reduction of inflammation or autoimmune, The goal today then is to think about that 50 pounds.

Oh, one more day of cheating is not a big deal, right? But you will never get there. It's the small little habits, the atomic habits, James Clear's book. But if you were to say today, okay, all I'm going to do is for breakfast, I'm just going to start with eggs and bacon, or I'm going to start with a couple patties with a little bit of tallow.

And then everything else, the rest of the day, I'll figure that out later, but that's maybe your win the day. So as long as I eat a breakfast of just carnivore, that is my win the [00:14:00] day. And then if you can do that consistently and that becomes a habit, then you're like, let's try to fix lunch. And everyone's going to be different in what they put as their daily goals.

But each day, if you can win your day and the goals, these small goals that will ultimately get you to your bigger goal, it becomes easier to be consistent because the answer in healing and wellness and everything in pursuit of anything in life, is being consistent and doing it and having a right path and goal that you're trying to get to.

And that's the way that I write books. It's, that's the way we build our practice. It's like, here's, what are our three or four big rocks for the quarter? And then we try to hit those. And whenever we get in a request or something else or a shiny thing that comes because it comes all the time, we have to say, does that fit those three rocks?

And then we say no. And so that, that's how I think, Anything can be approached with diet. You just start small. And I know everyone's like, okay, tomorrow I'm going to start the diet. I'm going to buy new clothes. I'm going to fast. I'm going to eat this. I'm going to eat that. I'm going to start sauna. I'm going to work out.

But that's what causes people to fail because it becomes so [00:15:00] insurmountable and they're like, forget it. One more day of cheating. Not a big deal. 50 pounds is too far away, but instead why don't you start with one small thing and then keep habits decking. And the more you start feeling improvements, it might take a couple of weeks.

It becomes easier to do more. And so I think, um, I think community is so important. When you're overweight or you're depressed, the last thing you want to do is community. That is these, the medicine that can make you better. Once you start cleaning up your diet, it might take one, two weeks, all of a sudden you have a little bit of energy, you might call a friend.

And so that's the habit stacking, which I think is so, so beneficial. Don't look at the big picture. Get a win the day. Look at that W for the day, even if you only do two of the three things, and then continue from there. Mm hmm. Yeah, it really does seem like with your coaching business, you focus a lot on sustainability, almost like lifestyle over a diet.

Totally. And it does seem like there's this trend with the carnivore diet of approaching it in terms of like, almost like a 30 day challenge or a 60 day challenge where they're like, I'm going to go all in on this thing. I'm going [00:16:00] to fast and then I'm going to feast. I'm going to try and like lose as much weight as possible and have that great transformation picture.

And then you hit it and then you just go back to like the old standard American approach that you were on before. And I feel like there aren't. That many people in the space that are teaching that habit formation and really turning this thing into a lifestyle that you could hopefully be able to do for years at a time and enjoy every bite of food and lose weight and have great hormone markers.

And it seems like that's really what you're focusing on. Yeah, I think for us it's, um, we are trying to get people to change long term, but it's not sexy, it doesn't sell. Like, just being fully honest, right? Like, me saying, you're going to have to do this for a long time to get better. Um, if you have an autoimmune you might have to be on carnivore for a very long time.

It doesn't. But if that's why we, or I purposely labeled carnivore as an elimination diet. So like, Hey, it's temporary. And my hope is that people will try it for a while and then if they feel better, they'll stay. Cause they remember how good they felt on the diet. If you think about all popular diets since eons ago, uh, they're, they're [00:17:00] always 21 day fix, right?

Everyone wants to be better yesterday. And so they will, we will sell the things that will like, Just let me get a little bit of your money now, your attention, your fame, your whatever. And they're willing to say, just try for 21 dates, just try for this, just try for that. But often times, that is not enough to get them better.

And so I think as leaders and influencers in this space, we should say, you know what, it might take a little bit longer. Again, people don't want to hear that. They want to hear the unicorn and rainbow stories. That's healing like anything. Look at me overnight. I'm fixed. I'm healed. And you see those are the ones that go viral as well.

But we work with the people that it takes a lot longer that when they see those, it makes them sad because they're like, how come I don't get that healing? How come I don't get that amazing healing and I I'm doing everything right. Is it, is it that I'm leaving in a little bit of coffee? Probably not. I mean, it's coffee that one little drip of coffee really going to make you still chronically ill.

But, But that's, and it becomes this self blame thing that I really don't like in the [00:18:00] community. And I'm sure it's all diet culture, but it's, you have to find what works, what will allow you to stay consistent because my goal for everyone is really to wellness for all. I mean, I healed, I never thought I would get over my eating disorder.

I thought I would always have to ignore it and be and muster the strength to be stronger than it. And I truly do not struggle from an eating disorder now. Now I will be always hyper vigilant about it because I know it can always come back. But I think when you heal and you really healed and you've been in the darkest ditches, your why is so different of why you're sharing your passion.

And so that's why I, I would love to go 14 days guys and you can be as thin as me. Right. But, but I know that so for me, that is, that is so against my integrity. Like I cannot do it. And also, yeah, it's, It's almost giving people an excuse to like go back to the way they were before when you're just like, yeah It'll only take 14 days and you just like go back to what you were doing before and you'll be fine Which I think is just like a total fallacy [00:19:00] like you're you're basically selling them on something that is just short term and temporary I was curious to ask you a question So Brett and I recorded a podcast a little while back just one on one and we talked about emotional eating I feel like you probably have some unique insights into that You How would you unpack that topic for people who might not even be aware that they're emotional eaters?

Like they binge and they just like haven't fully accepted it or you know, they just don't really know like what triggers them. Um, cause it seems like to me like something that a lot of people just don't understand that they are, they've wired themselves a certain way around food emotionally and they're not fully aware of it.

Yeah. So we only build things in our practice. We, there's a need for it. We noticed that a lot of people have either trauma or they've, uh, they've struggled with eating disorder behavior prior, but supposedly not now, right? That's what the paperwork says. And we have found that over and over there's like this negative [00:20:00] perception of whatever, like, this is not gonna fix me, the diet, the supplement, the protocol, the whatever.

And you see this negative view of the world. And, and as I learned more about the MindBody, the limbic system retraining, I realized that's a lot of where people are chronically ill that are stuck. And I get it because you've been to 10 doctors and nothing is fixing you. So at a certain point you have to be skeptical and doubtful so that you can protect yourself.

The other thing that we learned is, so we created a MindBody program because we didn't think some of the programs out there was sufficient enough. And in that, we talk, and it's a hard program, but In one of the sections we talk about core wounds, which is basically there was something that when you were a child was missing, whether it was security, um, belonging, uh, being able to have your needs met, you know, uh, protection, security, there, there's many things.

And if those things are lacking, then they will progress into your adult life, your adult relationships. And so you will act a certain way. And [00:21:00] I think what happens is with addictions, Um, I was watching something and I thought it was really powerful, but they say that addictions is oftentimes a sign that something's wrong in you, right?

So like if you are feeling depressed and we think, okay, let's just pop a pill so I can not feel depressed anymore. But if your mood is low and you're just processing all these thoughts, maybe those thoughts are telling you what you need to fix in your life. Maybe it's this time to hunker down. Like why do I feel depressed if everything's going right?

And maybe that's the very thing we need to fix. And I think what we do though is we turn to things that kick up the dopamine. So all the addictive stuff, food, drugs, social media, scrolling, internet, shopping, uh, gaming, and then we try to numb those feelings. And I think ultimately it goes down to what happened to you when you're a child.

It's those core wounds of, I feel insecure. And so every time I feel that emotion of insecurity, maybe, maybe your dad wasn't around. So then when you're at work and your boss is mad and it's like similar emotions, You don't realize it and so you turn to food. And [00:22:00] so when you get home, you're just like, I'm just gonna veg.

And I see people binge even on a carnivore diet. And so I know that it will help a lot because you don't have the blood sugar dysregulations. But if you don't heal the core wounds, if you don't heal why you're turning to food, and I think people don't, they're not aware of that. But that's where again, the Food and Mood Journal comes in.

So every time you're grabbing food, before you grab it, maybe the rule or the habit stack you have is, are you hungry? And if you're not hungry, why are you turning to this food? Why are you? And so it's just making what your habits are, your actions, hyper, hyper aware. And in our MindBody program, we teach, you'll have a cue, whether it's an event, uh, a trigger, and then that will affect your thoughts.

And then it's your thoughts that then affect your behavior. Right. So if you consider everything that goes on, like I'm getting cues from you guys, like, are you guys interested in what I'm sharing? But then I get the cues of like, okay, should I start like, you know, settling down and, and, and then, and then we, [00:23:00] we attach a emotion to that or a feeling.

And a lot of times, again, it's from the childhood. It's okay. So when mom and dad were fighting, I needed to make sure I wasn't around so that I wasn't causing any more problems. So maybe that's how I react. And a lot of times, When our needs are not being met and sometimes that people need to do a little work to figure out what are even my needs, we turn to food, we turn to the dopamine effect.

So we stop feeling that uncomfortable feeling we're feeling. And so maybe that's the first question. Maybe the first question is when you're turning to food, did something uncomfortable happen? Did something happen that you are turning to food? And I think a food and mood journal making everything hyper, hyper contextualized and, um, present and aware will allow you to start noticing.

Oh, I didn't realize that when I watch TV, I always have to grab something to eat and I'm numbing that way after a day of hard work. So then if you can't watch TV without snacking, then maybe you just got to stop watching TV for a little bit. I love that mind body program too, because it's [00:24:00] so easy to just hyper fixate on nutrition being the silver bullet.

It's not, it's not. And I even noticed that. I honestly did notice that with myself too, where I've had periods of my life. Since going carnivore, where my diet has been literally immaculate, where I'm not cheating at all, but I've always really held on to stress too. So even if my diet is perfect, but I'm stressed out, I will start to see, like, blood in my stool when I'm going to the bathroom.

And that's a sign of, like, alright, I have to, like, start meditating again. I have to make sure that I'm praying. I have to make sure that I'm getting eight hours of sleep. And that's always just been my reminder of, like, there's so many other factors in the context of your healing journey outside of just nutrition.

Yes, it's a huge lever to pull. But there's a lot of other things and it's, I don't know, I feel like there's so many influencers that just focus on nutrition and that's all you need to care about. And if you eat carnivore, everything else is magically going to get better. And that's why I love how holistic your entire approach is that it's multiple things, not just one thing.

Yeah. I was just telling, um, on a different podcast, I was saying, everyone has a plan. That's Mike Tyson's quote, right? Everyone has a plan until you get [00:25:00] punched in the face. And I, I think when it wrote carnivore cure, I had a plan and, and then my clients punched me in the face every day. Right. And it made me.

Everything that I believed or I thought diet was the answer to everything and it wasn't and and then it was like, okay Maybe it's diet plus sleep and then it wasn't and then diet plus sleep plus gut and and so on and so forth And I realized everyone is so different of what's the trigger and it's finding that root cause that's why I always talk about root cause And I talk about healing and it is not just one factor And diet absolutely can affect because when you're stressed you can argue that your cortisol is more released and then that causes more leaky gut because Instead of your body focusing on immune function and digestion, your body's like go run and all the, all, all of your energy and extremity, um, is going to your extremities.

Mm-Hmm. . And so you could say that's the argument about stress with the diet. But we also see, so there was a really good graphic release from this, uh, person called after school. He shows a picture of a bee, and it's the perception of, so you see a bee, one person, and [00:26:00] so we have billions and millions of neurons and then atoms and cells and all that, and it all communicates with each other, and in one picture, the girl is looking at the bee, and then sees, Well, I think it's a guy, but so the guy sees a bee and then imagines, Oh my gosh, if I get bit, this is toxicity, poison, I'm going to die.

And so you see all these little cells in the body showing that it's poison and you see how it's going to affect you emotionally, mentally, and, and probably physically for the girl, she sees it and then imagines honey. And you, you see all these happy faces all throughout her body. And it shows, Every day we look at something we wake up and we're like, oh, I don't feel good Oh, I didn't get enough sleep and then your mindset is negative You're already releasing the brain is already hearing that the day is going to be bad Potentially and then you start releasing more cortisol You're more heightened and aware in that sense and and then your immune system is just not functioning as well And if you do that with every day single thing that you run into.

You can see how [00:27:00] much the mind is actually affecting the rest of the body. Even if you're eating a good diet, if your perception of the world is negative, the world will be negative. And we all know right now, it's a super highly charged political space. And I just don't go on social media. Instagram used to be a place where people shared their family pictures and friend pictures and infographics of like, Oh my God, yay about ribeye.

And now it's so polarizing. There's so much. Like, don't trust this group and don't trust this and it's so negative, it's all headlines and it honestly saddens me so I don't go on because I'm like, you know, I need to instead of focusing and getting charged up and angry, I'm going to use that energy to build something and help build a tool, build a book, help things and help people to get better because all of this negativity is just going to make people want to consume more of it, get more mad and then not do anything in their life and then they're going to feel, why do I feel so depressed.

I was just going to ask, how do you train that perception? Because it's [00:28:00] so true. It's like, you know, I walked into the gym yesterday, had an amazing attitude. My workout was amazing. Day before, negative attitude, terrible workout. It's like, I was just expecting it, you know? It was just like how my thoughts were, um, through the entire workout.

And, yeah. You know, if you're not aware of that, it can just be something that's just like totally hardwired into you. Um, so, I'm curious what your take is on just training that, because it's so tough. Yeah, so we, we teach, in our MindBody program, we first teach the brain. And so it's in the limbic system that your hypothalamus, your pituitaries, and, um, the amygdala.

So these things are the areas where you have memory, and so your brain is trying to protect you. So let's say, the example I give in the program is, There's a lady that loved to go surfing, and she, you know, your worst fear is that you get bit by a shark, and she did. Right? So she lost her arm. It's a, it's one of the athletes, um, I'm forgetting her name, but Oh, Bethany Hamilton.

Yeah, yes, yes. So I, I share that without sharing the end story, so like, pretend you don't know who she is. And so I say, the average person, after getting [00:29:00] bit by a shark, would never go back in the water, because the limbic system is training you, don't ever go there, it's a negative space. So you start, you start Remind remembering.

And so every time you might go near the beach, your body starts flooding your body with all the, you know, the epinephrine, the cortisol and adrenals, and you just feel, start feeling anxiety and stress. And so then you're like, okay, I'm just never going to go there. So you start training your body not to go there.

Anytime, maybe even walk by the street, you might feel it. What we need to do is retrain our body. So for her, in less than two months, she went back in the water, even though she got bit by a shark. And then in less than two years, she won the medal for the surfing stuff that she does. So what she did is she had to have done limbic system retraining.

Like thank you brain, thank you brain for trying to protect me, but I'm going to challenge that. So we call those cognitive distortions. Um, it's, it's a psychology term, but it's basically a lot of us do black and white thinking like it's either this or that, or we think of a, like the everything is going to be disastrous in the front.

So [00:30:00] since we are more wired to protect ourselves than to be encouraged to do new things, We will always think of, okay, if I go here, what's the worst things that can happen? We focus on those things. We have to be, again, hyper focused on our thoughts to challenge them. And that's where we try to challenge those cognitive distortions.

So we have handouts that we'll give and we're, we'll say, what's the situation that got you really upset? And you might've gotten upset at somebody and you don't know it. You don't know if that was truly the valid situation. And you give a rating of what were the emotions you felt, right? And then what, what is a separate or different thought you could have thought?

Maybe they were tired and they didn't say hi to you. Maybe they were having a bad day themselves You know, we we like someone will cut us off while we're driving if we're having a bad day We're really mad and if someone cuts us off and we're having a good day We're like, oh, maybe maybe they're busy, you know, and so we and we need to be hyper aware that um One thing I don't like is the aura ring, you know Everyone uses the aura ring that tells you like your readiness score and so they're like be [00:31:00] careful today You have to be calming That is so messed up to your limbic system.

Oh my gosh. So imagine, um, I gotta be very careful. It says I'm not really rested. What are the chances of you having a bad day? Cause now you're priming your brain. Protect yourself. Because I was told that today's gonna be a bad day. Yes. That is so crazy. You become a slave to the device. Yes. And even in social media, it's funny, you're talking about the bee sting.

I get this feeling of almost like orthorexia when I scroll through Instagram. Like, one of the things I'm trying to do is stop saying, you should do this or you should do that. And when you scroll through social media, it's all people telling you, don't ever eat this ever again. Don't ever wear polyester.

It's just like, seed oils are gonna kill you. And I'm like, I think about these people that literally think that. They're gonna die if they eat seed oils. I know. It's like, I went back, I just went back to New Jersey. I had pizza multiple times. I was with my family, I was with my grandparents. And I'm like, I'm just gonna enjoy a great meal and then when I come back to Austin I'll get back on track.

Like, it's okay. And, and that's [00:32:00] perfect. So, again, it's that mind body, right? So, I can tell you from client data We don't see a huge difference if you're carnivore and maybe you eat some things that maybe the, it was, the steak was cooked at a restaurant and seed oils. I do not see a, Oh my gosh, this delineation of you're still using some level of seed oils and this person is not, you do not see any health markers different.

So with all that said though, um, we have clients where So when I wrote carnivore cure, you could totally become orthorexic from it. Cause I even bring up, Hey, blueberries, they're actually not rich in antioxidants. They release poisons and those poisons are what then forces your body to produce glutathione, which is so the benefit outweighs the negative.

Just like when you work out, right? You tear your muscles and then you build muscle. So I got complaints of, Oh my gosh, if you read this book, the only thing you could eat is the highest quality meat. Right? And so I am totally at fault for that too. And my husband at a certain point said, You would need to live in a bubble in order to survive because of everything you're afraid of.

And, and I [00:33:00] saw that. And then I think the, the biggest shock factor to me was I had a client, she said she went on vacation with her husband and they only stayed in their hotel room. And they're like, we can't eat anywhere because of the seed oils and it's not grass finished. And so we're just staying. And I said, so are you visiting anything?

He's like, no, because what have the EMS and all the other things. And so literally, they just stayed in their hotel room, or I think they were renting a place, and lived and ate steak there, and I said, It is okay if you eat some green fish. And so, because she got permission from me, she's like, Okay, okay, I can go eat that.

And that's when I realized, oh my gosh, the weight that we have on people, we should be, we should, you know, take ownership of that. And that's when I became very, a lot looser with my words. You know, some people Can do fine with liver, right? Some people can do, I mean, I'll tell you the story about my son Aiden with taking your organ, um, your organ blend, but it's, I think it's when we're like, don't ever, you know, [00:34:00] microplastics are everywhere.

Like that's the new topic lately. It's microplastics are everywhere and I get it. It's true. But if you fear monger everything, you're gonna see that be producing toxins everywhere. And then how are you gonna enjoy going out to a restaurant if you're wondering, oh my god, are they cooking my food in seed oil?

But then I really have to meet with my friend and do that. Actually, the Harvard study, 80 years, showed that the number one way of longevity, happiness, contentment in life, was connection. It was community. No food, none of the other stuff. The number one thing was, in the middle of the night, at 3 in the morning, can you call somebody and ask for help?

And if you can't, then, then that is a sign that there's a less chance of having longevity. And it wasn't food, it wasn't, it wasn't sleep, it wasn't your circadian rhythm, it wasn't ice baths, but I think people get so fixated. When I talk to my chronically ill community, I, they say, we just want to really feel better.

And so when we hear, you just need to remove this or just do this, then they're really hopeful that'll get them better. [00:35:00] But over time they realize that's not the thing. And I just think the mind body work is important because if you do become orthorexic, which I feel like that's what I was training people to initially.

And I realized, Oh my gosh, like I don't want to be this. I don't want to be like, be careful of your pants, be careful of your water. Don't use a straw, right? The plastic straw. And it's like, what, what can you do? How can you enjoy life and enjoy community? Yeah, I think it's important to understand like setting a standard.

So you're working towards just meeting this mark every day, but also understanding that that's just a mark. And over time, if you just aim towards that mark and accumulate enough good days, You have so much bandwidth to like maybe have one or two, um, like days or multiple, not, not even just one or two, like multiple days where you're not perfect and you don't need to be perfect.

Yeah. So, I mean, that's why I openly, so the other day we bought, um, Jack Winks beef jerky, which has soy in it. Oh my gosh. I got reamed on the internet. It was, it was many, many months ago, but it was on sale. And I'm like, I have a family of four and our [00:36:00] kids eat a lot of meat. And so we, Um, we bought it and I, I knew I would get backlash and I took a picture and they're like, Oh my gosh, how can you buy that?

It has soy, it's grain finished, um, there's sugar in it. And I'm like, We're not trying to achieve a, and then I made the joke of, well, I'm Asian, so maybe I could tolerate more soy. Right. So I just, I don't, I don't know, but it's just, we don't get symptomatologies from it and it's, and we're not eating it every day.

It's just occasionally. And I try not to. So I used to share, this is when I was making my kids lunchboxes. I used to say, this is grass finished. This is a pasture raised organic. And I don't do that anymore because I didn't want to make it this only if you buy the best, you'll get better. So now I just say egg.

steak, beef, because I don't want to make that narrative. I don't want to, I suffer from an eating disorder that was so bad for so long. I do not want to make people orthorexic and a hundred percent people are getting orthorexic that I see it. We see it in our practice. Yeah. It's um, it's sad to think that there are a lot of people [00:37:00] that are trying to get the right information, but they don't know where to start.

And I we've had to even catch ourselves before too, because we obviously talked a lot about, uh, You know, regenerative meat, grass finished meat, the differences between that and grain finished meat. But I thought, being totally honest, when I was 24 and I was trying to heal from ulcerative colitis, I was in New York City, I'd never met a local rancher before, I didn't know the difference between grain fed and grass fed.

I literally just bought the cheap budget cuts from the outer aisle of the grocery store and ate that for two years, and got off all the drugs and medication I was taking. So, for me to be like, oh, it has to be grass finished or regenerative, is so disingenuous to my healing story. So Um, I don't know, it just makes me think a lot about, um, it's tough for people to get started because there's so much differing information, but I, I love your approach of just focusing on these big levers to pull and, um, just teaching people to lead through optimism and positivity.

Yeah, and I, I will say the regenerative, like just to, you know, give you support in what you share, I think it is important [00:38:00] because I, I have young kids and I want the world to be better. And I mean, There are things going on where I do feel like the the world is shifting in a more negative way if we can go back to where Cattle is fed grass and in a natural way the earth will be better and will be in its most natural state So all of those things are true and we should strive for that, right?

So I also don't want to be like yeah If you can only eat Walmart ground beef and that's all you can eat and that's all you're gonna strive for No, I think you should be able to also Eventually as you have it stack Make more money, right? Like, I don't think we talk about money enough, but I think it's, I am not driven by money, but you need money to do well and survive.

Right? So we'll talk about Aiden in a second, but Aiden was sick. And if I didn't have money, I couldn't have afforded the things that I did for him. Right? So the, once you are better, you should always strive for better. If you, in life, you should always strive for better and never be stagnant. Cause that's when you're becoming complacent.

And I think, We should [00:39:00] strive to get to grass finished and support all the regenerative farmers because if we all support that maybe there will be more farmers And it will make the economies of these grass finished meats go down, but it is not required Yes, but that it should be the goal, right? So as people understand the logistics of the CAFOs like I used to go to Berkeley I would drive the LA Berkeley route that CAFO area you had to close your windows for over a mile because it was great it's like literally gray and it's just, and you cannot help but see the animals and feel sad for them.

Yes. And so all of that, I know, but I am, I am a victim of that. I still buy those meats. And so I'm just saying that ideally we strive for better, right? We, so I take my kids and when we were getting raw milk, I would show them like, here's where your, your goat's milk is coming from and here's where the meat is from.

And, and so we strive for that, but it's just, It's hard because people also like really quick snapshots and so they're not going to get your full message either. Definitely. Yeah, what we always say is that there's kind of two phases. So, for me it was [00:40:00] like just kind of rewiring my relationship with food.

And this is food versus a food like substance versus processed food. And for me it was, okay, I'm eating a lot of animal products and I feel amazing. But I don't really, I don't understand sourcing. And then phase two was like, alright, now let's get into sourcing. Starting to connect with local farmers, ranchers, micronutrient content from grass finished regenerative meat.

But it's just a progression. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think it's important to educate people, right? So maybe 10 of the meals are grain finished, but maybe they'll make one effort to make one more grass finished. So I, because I think that is the goal. I think it is ideal. A cow should be able to live the life they were meant to live.

Yes. And a CAFO In all honesty, that's not the way we're meant to live, right? So, uh, so that's where I get it. I get, and so I'm supportive of regenerative agriculture, and that's why I've had Joel Salatin and other people on our channel, because I think it is important to talk about it, even if people are not spending all their money on that.

But, you know, I do think it's a progression. Do you [00:41:00] have kind of five core foods that you would recommend people go towards? Once they're starting a carnivore diet or just if they're looking to eat a little bit healthier Yeah So I did the nutrient density table where I literally looked up a food and then based on a hundred grams per food Like which one had the most nutrient density There are 12 essential vitamins and then 20 essential minerals and then based on that I mean the the numbers speak for themselves, but salmon roe was the highest and then salmon was right after now The amounts may be different, but they had every single nutritional thing I think they missed a couple minerals and then I think right after that was like beef and chicken were pretty lined up as Much as people think chicken is not that nutrient dense compared to beef.

It's not true And then eggs raw dairy milk that's all up there So I think if you can tolerate it eating a variety is super important Pork, for example, has a lot of B1 or vitamin B1 or thiamine. Uh, chicken, I think, has the most K2. It might be because they're supplementing it. [00:42:00] Uh, oysters and salmon and all the seafoods obviously have a lot of minerals.

Beef and, and they have a lot of the iron, the vitamin Bs and stuff. So, I think a wide range is ideal, but if, but also in context. Like, what do you enjoy so that it will allow you to be consistent? Okay. And then we'll allow you to eat it. If you hate eating salmon, and you're shoving it down, you're not going to eat it long term.

If you hate eating liver, and you shove it down, you're not going to eat it long term. So I think those things really matter. It's, what do you like? And then in the animal space, um, if you can stick to more whole foods, that would be ideal. What foods do you like the best that you could just eat every single day and it always tastes good?

Uh, I would say ribeye. Um, before I used to do ribeye with butter, but I noticed that over the years I don't need as much fat. I will, if I crave it, I will, but a fatty ribeye, chicken wings, uh, pork belly. So I'd still do go towards the higher fat needs. And then, um, if I don't eat eggs, Every few days I crave it and it might be all the minerals.

I know this is the nerdy side of me [00:43:00] But like I'm like, maybe I'm missing some choline or whatever but or biotin, but yeah, so I'll do a lot of eggs So our family goes through I think like five dozen eggs a week. Wow. It's our I mean our family's meat based So yeah, we eat a lot. I wanted to tell you though I messaged you separately, but I did want to bring it up So I know a lot of people think of me as a super anti liver person But and and I do think there's truth that vitamin A toxicity Uh, your organ, certain things have like, excess copper, but Aiden had a bronchial infection and we don't know exactly what it is.

We went to a pulmonologist, did x rays, nothing came out negative. His breathing was totally normal. Then we went to Korea, he got sick again, it was very similar symptoms. They tested him, they're like, nothing's wrong. Um, we never knew, but what I do know is that every time he would eat and then he was coughing, He would cough enough.

And if it was like, I think it was if his stomach was too full, I don't think it's GERD, but then he would vomit. So if his stomach, so then we're like, what can we give him that has the least [00:44:00] amount of volume, but would give the maximum nutrient density. So we put a little bit of raw milk or water and then we would mix it with your, um, your chocolate smoothie.

So I was like, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful because he lost five pounds and he's a small kid. He was, He's 60 pounds now. So I think he went down to 55, but I was starting to get worried cause his clothes were starting to hang and he's a healthy eater. He can eat like 10 ounces in a, in a sitting. And so when he was able to eat nothing and hold it down, that saved him like at least six times.

So thank you. I appreciate you having that product. That makes me so happy to know we'll save the day. That's awesome. Yeah. I can see that being a fit cause if you're giving him a scoop of it, it's only 85 calories, but it's still close to 25 grams of protein from the beef. And the organ complex is so small in it too, it's only 250 milligrams total, so it's really a protein product, but that's amazing that that worked for him too.

Well, he was eating nothing, right, so like that was the only thing, because he would end up, we would try to dinner, [00:45:00] and then he would end up vomiting, and so then we're like, and then he's obviously hungry again because he threw up everything, so then we tried yours and then there was most times he would not vomit yours, and it was just, I think it was volume, but it was just the security of.

There's organ complex in it, there's protein, and he's able to tolerate it, and so, yeah, I was like, I'm very grateful, because in this scenario, he absolutely needs the vitamin A, right? Or he needs the copper, or whatever, so, it was, um, I think it's important, and I think if people are not able to eat a meal, I do think it's a good meal replacement.

Mm, yeah. And I think that's even a sign how much you've evolved too, because probably you a couple years ago would have been like, oh, natural flavor, stevia, but then you're realizing that it's like, it's a, it's a, it's a bridge product, right? We're not trying to replace steak. You know, I think a lot about people that aren't eating enough meat, or they're curious about organs but don't like the taste of it.

I think a good shake with like some raw milk is such a good place to start. And then you start drinking the shake, you feel better, and then hopefully you eventually get curious about maybe carnivore, regenerative agriculture, [00:46:00] and go down those rabbit holes. Again, it's like a progression, and that's, we just wanted to be a piece in people's journey along that progression.

Yeah, I mean, if you made your skin healthy, super no stevia, no chocolate flavor. My son would not have eaten like there's no way. So I am grateful for that bridge and that's where, that's where I'm telling you, that was the punch in my face. So I was like, guys, here's the cardio recur way of eating super strict.

No, no sweeteners, no this, no that. I get that sometimes sweeteners can do whatever to your body, but if a person will not eat the healthiest thing, then there's no point in it. As an example, in our community, there's a, there's a few snacks that people don't want to eat. Right. And it's just, it doesn't matter how perfect it is.

No one wants to eat it. So then what's the point. And I was talking to a marketer, a business owner. They're like, if you want people to change their habit, you have to make it as easy as possible. So if you want them to get organs, just saying, just swallow organs, People are not going to do that or swallow like frozen organs or buy the capsule like that's [00:47:00] an easier way.

There's a less entry barrier to entry. And so if you make a, your people are used to making protein shakes or milkshakes or chocolate shakes. And if you have one that has a little bit of organs or more nutrient density and real meat, then that's a win instead of like trying to go super perfect. And it's like, this tastes like milk in a cup.

Like who's going to eat that? No, exactly. Yeah. That's so cool. And it's interesting too, like, I imagine just teaching your kids about food in general and like, you know, letting them have the protein shake and, like, teaching them, hey, like, this stuff's fine to supplement with when you need it, but, like, this is the core groups of food and just teaching that healthy relationship with food too is super important as someone who has, you know, health and nutrition at the center of their life.

Yeah, uh, I teach my kids, so as an Asian American, we don't, well, at least in our family. We don't vocalize our needs as much or our emotions, right? So that's why I think a lot of Asians seem so quiet and they're just, [00:48:00] it's like, no, we have emotions. Our culture teaches us to be very community oriented. So we don't share as much of our feelings cause it's almost like selfish cause you're not reading the room.

And so what I try to do with my boys is I never want them to have an eating disorder. I never want them to suffer from depression. I know I don't have full control, but if I can teach them all of that, so I have them not only know about the food and let's say sometimes when we Once in a blue moon, we'll go to Panda Express.

I know it's like the worst food ever, but they're eating the broccoli beef. And if they get, um, if they start getting a little bit of eczema, if let's say they're eating foods like that, then I'll say it's a perfect conversation. And then I'll get them on probiotics and we're like, let's reel back the diet.

Right. Um, and then we do that with the emotional stuff too. So our goal in our, in, in my practice is, um, I want to write kids books with like all the different values, because I think to me it's so important instead a kid holding a carrot or an apple, like let's have them. And I think that's important too to be able to take your son's dependent expression up, [00:49:00] deprive them of that, and like maybe they'll do totally fine on the broccoli and beef, and then maybe they will get a little bit of eczema, but then you teach them about that, because eventually they're going to be in college and they're going to be on their own, and like, they're going to be tempted with that stuff too, so it's better to expose them to it while they're young, versus just depriving it and then them never getting experience with that stuff.

I mean, I know there's a lot of parents or people that will go nuts. Blasphemy, you know, or that's crazy that you wouldn't let them eat seed oils And I think they use a little bit of flour in that I don't even know what they put but it's just When we were really strict as a family it was it was taxing on our lifestyle Just even wanting to go out go on vacation and and then I just saw their faces as they're getting older and like everyone has a A juice box or something else and not that I would give all of those things But maybe in moderation or teaching them.

Hey, why don't you eat your protein and fat first? And then maybe you have the carb afterward, or just educating them so that when they go off to college, I don't have control. Mm-Hmm. . And if I don't, then I need them to make the [00:50:00] right decisions. And so if I never let them eat anything but meat until they're 20 something and if, or 18 and they go out, what if they go binging and partying on, oh my gosh, I've never had sugar in my life.

Yeah. And I never want that to be the case. 'cause I, again, I still suffer from an eating disorder, so I try to find that balance. Most days they eat just, or mostly meat. But some days they get to eat that or they get to eat some ramen and I know it's like blasphemy, but I mean, whatever. It's like, this is real life.

It's also delicious. Ramen is also delicious too, every once in a while. I don't care too much for a ramen, but my, my kids love it. I don't know if it's the Asian side. I don't know if it's super racist, but I don't care. Are you Korean? I'm Korean. I'm Korean. So my mom and dad came to America when they were in their twenties.

And so I was born and raised in LA and then lived in California. Yeah, I'm Korean American. I think Korean food is the best. Yeah, it is good. Sometimes it's too sweet, you know, but overall. But we'll use stevia. I know, that's like bossing me through. I know, I'm like saying all the bad things now. Um, [00:51:00] but we'll use stevia to make Korean, like the, the ribs.

Um, and that's good. But, uh, yeah, it is good. It's a very heavy meat based diet. And then they'll add veggies. And so sometimes they'll have it. So we went to Korea, and I tried to stick to being really strict carnivore. And it was really, really hard. Really? They don't have They have a little bit of pork, but they don't have beef is like still a luxury there It's very so I went to the Outback just to see the prices.

Yeah, a 10 ounce steak would probably cost you 100. Yeah, so I was like I can't do this for 14 days with a family that eats Sometimes more than me. So yeah, we had to I had a fill with some vegetables on top Blasphemy. Whenever I go for Korean barbecue, it's like I can't not get some rice with the meat and the sauce and everything.

It just goes together so well. But I know it's blasphemous to say that. It's okay. We'll just skip this part. No, I don't really like rice and noodles. Like if it was bread, cookies, like that was my You know, because everyone has their things that they, um, they liked. But, yeah, I think it's The [00:52:00] goal is to get to metabolic flexibility, meaning that, I get it's not healthy for you, I get that Panda Express is not good for you, I get it.

But, at least they're still focusing on meat, at least they're not just eating the noodles and rice and that's it. And, and I know other people will go, no, that's not health. But, I mean, we are exposed, like, I can make an argument about everything being toxic in the world. So, you gotta pick your battles. We went to a water park and my thought was oh my god There's got to be parasites that people are shedding their nasty stuff There's probably Pia and and and I thought my kids really want to go I have to go and so they went and I just thought Oh, let's put them on probiotics or a binder or something And it's like I don't want to limit my kids life in food and stuff I will in certain ways but I don't want to limit my kids life because I'm scared of something because that's where I'm faith based and I'm like, I cannot believe that this water is going to kill my kid and I have to trust that if it does happen that that was God's plan and that has been so stress [00:53:00] relieving I guess because when people are like, well, Judy, can I eat this or not?

And it's like, it depends. Like that's the real answer is it depends. And I know that's hard because people just want the black and white, but that goes back to the B right? How do you balance being in the medical field, which I would say today, it seems like it's basically the antithesis of faith, but then also being faith based.

Um, I think the truth is when, so when I went carnivore, there was a lot of backlash. Our family, I'm from LA, people thought I was crazy. Um, and then, and then COVID hit and I, I wrote this really long article of why, I didn't know if the shot was beneficial for you, and I got more backlash in the carnivore community.

You were just asking for it. I know, and then I talked about the, you know, like, the, the best food, the most nutrient dense food, liver, having some level of, you know, like, maybe too much is too much, um, and that got me. And so, right, and so, um, I, and then, I was reading [00:54:00] a Bible study with our kids at night, and it was, um, Nehemiah and the wall, and he basically, basically he felt compelled by God to build a wall back for, um, for the Jews, and everyone was against him, so he was like, no, but I have to do this, and I was like, that's how I feel, like, I feel, like, compelled, like, I didn't want to bring up the liver stuff because I knew there would be backlash.

I didn't want to bring up the, the shot stuff, but my parents were going to get it. And I just thought, after I did all this research for my parents, how do I not share that? What I found and my parents didn't get it and they have survived and they're 72, but they're meat based. Um, so how do I not share that when I know morally, I know that many people probably shouldn't get it.

So for example, if you, a lot of these vaccines are made for people that are immunocompromised because you might not, your immune system might not be able to defend itself against whatever's out there. But it is the immunocompromised that are the most sensitive to vaccines. So whether it's the fillers, the heavy metals, or whatever it is, they're the ones that end [00:55:00] up getting really hurt.

And we have many people that are injured for a variety of vaccines in our practice. So then who is this made for? Right? So that, like, those are the things that I would think about. Like, if you make the vaccine for the immunocompromised, but they're the ones that shouldn't be getting it because they're the most sensitive, then who is it for?

And those things that I would think about, I just felt, I felt this. thing on my heart that I should share. And so when I read Niehemiah's thing and about the wall and everyone was going against him and like all is conflict, he still did it because he felt like that was his purpose. And so in the as I do all this evidence based research as much as I do all this research and the diet and everything should work for some people, it doesn't.

And then I don't know what to tell my client and patient in front of me. But I know that they have core wounds, And I just think, in my hearts of hearts, I think, I think you need a little bit of Jesus. I know that sounds crazy, but to me it's like, you have no faith. You, you think everything is, you are responsible for everything.

But [00:56:00] what if you just let go a little bit and let God, you know, let go and let God. And I think that's when I was, like, it was no longer, my audience wasn't an N equals of a hundred thousand or whatever. It's just my N equals one is gone. And so I do the work because of my faith. Because God has given me the talent to Put complex information into these tangible ways, and so that's how I do it.

It's, there are stories of people getting cancer, and they're like, you have six months to live, and for some reason they live for years. How do you explain that, even in the medical science and the literature? How do, how does, how do we explain a lot of these things that make no sense? And I think that's where faith comes along.

Why, why do, why are there so many faith based people, not even just Christians, Muslims and Jews that believe in something that is intangible. And I think it's because in our hearts, you know when we say gut feelings, I think it's those things. And, and so, I will share as much of the evidence based research that I see in our clinical practice, what we see.

[00:57:00] But there are intangibles that I'll never be able to fully explain, and I understand that. And that's where I think, I hope my message of what I share, who I am as a person, will share, maybe some of it is the faith side too. Maybe it's just trusting the process. Maybe when I see the bee, I'm going to try to focus on the honey even though I feel like it's going to be a toxin.

And maybe, maybe if you don't have enough of that faith, then you could pray and you could go, God, I don't even know if you exist, but fill my heart, sorry I'm getting emotional, but fill my heart, fill my emotion with purpose and like, is this Like, let me see the bee as the honey, right? And like, let me get over my illness.

And I think those things are so important. And I think in, again, it's going back to the enemy and the darkness. And it's like, we think that there is no darkness, but there is. And so much of us, we want to be, goes back to the core wounds. We want to be self justified. We want validation. We want that security.

So we will do the things and chase the materialistic, the materialistic. Societal things, but is that really giving you your completion in your heart? Is it [00:58:00] making your heart full and if it's not then I think that's where I challenge people to look further So that's the balance. Sorry Religion because I it's not religion.

It's my relationship with god, but sometimes I just I can't fix this person and so I pray about it because i'm like You are doing everything we are recommending and your case is not moving You And so we will do more research to get you more answers. But sometimes we just need like, give us an edge, God, like just, you know, we pray and, and, and we have faith based people on our team too.

Not everyone, but, um, and we pray about it and just hope that like we will get answers or miracles can happen. They will be the person that they had cancer, but they get to live another 10 years. It really gets back to perception too. Just how do you perceive the world? If you think, we've talked about a bunch of your healing story.

If, if you don't believe that you can get healed, how are you going to get there? Uh, if there's not belief at the root, root of that, there was a study done, [00:59:00] uh, where it, so if anyone, if, um, I'm forgetting the book's name, but, uh, there's, there's a book that talks about, and maybe I'll tell you guys afterward and you guys can put it in the show notes, but there's a book where it just talks about all of how perception affects everything in your life.

So beyond what I shared. So I could tell you two stories. There was one story in world war II, they ran out of. Morphine and so all the soldiers were coming back They had to go into surgery and if you don't get morphine or a pain reduction You could go into shock and you could die. So the doctor kind of knew about placebo effect.

They didn't have it wasn't out yet He was the one that founded it. So the nurse lied put saline in the shots and said Hey, just tell them that they're getting morphine and all of them, I think it was only 2 percent that felt like actually felt that they were getting, um, that they maybe went into shock, but everyone else felt like they got morphine and so their brain released chemicals to believe that they were getting better.

Another study showed that with planning, Uh, two sets of people, they were getting out of rehabilitation, maybe they broke their leg or [01:00:00] something. And so one group was just, um, I'm going to get out and I'm going to get better. The other person wrote down, I'm going to go to the stop sign, I'm going to get my mail.

They, in detail, the people that wrote out and planned their day were the ones that got better faster. So these things, like the belief is so huge. And I think when we are, again, on social media, just seeing negativity, that is just pinging negativeness in yourself. You think the world is ending. Um, and it Might be right.

So, but it's just, but what are you going to do about it? If the world is ending, what can you do? Right. And then I got to a point where I thought, what is the point of me teaching about steak when the world's going to end anyway? And I just thought that's, that's silly. So I will do my part until the day that happens, but I'm not going to worry about it until the day that it happens.

You see the mindset. Like I want to live a fulfilling life, live the best life I can with my family and then help as many people as we can. And then if the world ends tomorrow, Oh, well, like that's and people could call that ignorant or naive, but what is the point of worrying so much every single day?

Yeah, you really seem like you [01:01:00] operate from a place of truth and you really listen to your gut instinct, too Like I feel like if there was ever a business decision that came up or a coaching or consulting thing that came up That wasn't in harmony with your gut instinct or your beliefs You would not do it where like a lot of people would give into that I feel like you like have a very strong gut instinct Yes, so, um, I think being in practice a few years now, uh, we are, we just turned down a deal for a sponsorship for our podcast.

I mean, they're aligned, but I think it's, I don't want to, I don't want to do things based on a fear based reason. So, oh, but if we don't get that money, what if we can't make money on the podcast? Right? Like that fear. I'm like, I don't want to do that anymore. So we are denying it and we're just going to recommend our services on the podcast.

It may not make the money that we were getting through sponsorships. I don't want to act on fear. I also think that our services are good. Like why aren't we trying to share our services when I know it's good. I know that we put in the extra work because it's Um, if you guys ever read good to great phenomenal book, I required everybody on my [01:02:00] team, everyone.

And I gave them extra money because I wanted them. And I said, you have to do a book report though, because you know, the studies show that if you write it down, you remember it more so. And I said, what did you get out of it? And I think that it's not just, so as I'm building a company or a team, I, as a leader, I feel like I need to walk the talk, right?

So if our values, our core values, our mission statements, like wellness for our core values are, we. Or walk in truth and integrity and honesty and blah, blah, blah, blah. I better walk that. And so as a leader of my team, I better never share that I'm or never share a side of me. That's like lack of integrity, right?

If I'm saying those are my values. And so we have to put that. So whenever something shiny comes, whether it's money or whether it's an opportunity, we really think of it as does this make sense with our values, with our mission statement? And if it does not, we say no. So. When I saw you guys at Hack Your Health, I know a lot of people were taking pictures.

There's some people I don't necessarily agree with and I chose, I'm like, I'm not [01:03:00] going to take pictures of them. And so I purposely just, you know, didn't go, but if I wanted to be popular, I probably should have. Right. And it's just, that's where maybe I could be a little bit more flexible, but, um, I also know the, the harm it could do when people listen to certain people that are, you know, not sharing the best recommendations and that are unknowingly or accidentally hurting people's health.

Yeah, it's being principled, it's the willingness to want to be principled versus being liked. Yeah, and it goes back to my n equals one, right? So if I was just trying to be popular, if I was just trying to make a boatload of money, then, then I should do, I should collab, I should do this and that. But if my purpose is to serve, And like, and, and if God gave me these talents and I'm supposed to use them, then I better have it with integrity, right?

If, if our goal is to help people, but I am ambitious. So we are going to do a carnivorous study, right? We are going to release books. I am going to do these things because I have the passion for it, but it is not to be because of financial wealth. It is not to [01:04:00] be popular. It is. I feel the Nehemiah walk all.

That's what it is. That's amazing. I have a little bit of a change of direction question. I wanted to ask you about ozempic just to get your take on it. What's, what's your thoughts on ozempic semiglutide? It feels like it's everywhere and everyone's recommending it and I'm curious to get your take on it.

Keep in mind like the fear based conversation too. Like I feel like it's an interesting component of it. Like a lot of people are just like, you know, very fearful of it or just like kind of slimy. I'm curious what your thoughts are on it. I only did research on it when it first came out. So it's been a while.

Um, when I did the research, I saw the risks of like, I think it can affect your thyroid or your kidneys. Um, my bigger concern is I'm okay if you need it for now, but let's not use it as a bandaid. Right? So it's that 21 day effect, right? Like use the Oedempic, lose weight and um, make yourself not diabetic or at least not diabetic while you're taking it.

But there are concerns with it. Like why are you depending [01:05:00] on someone else? And some other medicated medication and that's super expensive instead of trying to fix it on your own like that to me There's a core bigger issue and it's not about ozempic or not Like if you need it for now, I mean, I'm not really for it.

Like my the podcast research I did show that it has got issues as soon as you get off it. You'll gain all your weight back There's the kidney and thyroid issues. There was like some level of toxicity from what I remember when I did the research You But some people lose weight on it. But the question is, okay, so then are you going to get off and try to maintain that weight?

Or are you just going to go back, or are you going to just stay on it forever? And no medication works forever. We know that our immune system is smarter than that. And so I always go back to root cause, and if you can't lose weight on your own, or you can't get healthy or non diabetic, and we know like a low carb diet works, that is a bigger issue, and I would want to dig into why is that.

And then, so in the interim, if you want to use that med, that is on you. But I think there are concerns with it. My bigger question is why, [01:06:00] what is it that you can't get over the foods that are literally making you unwell? There's something deeper there. And that's what we, that, in our practice, we would dig on that.

Yeah, like the first principles approach to just ghost, try to solve the problem, um, from the root cause. Yeah. It's the only way that people will have true freedom. I really think that because if you're, if you're just doing something for 21 days then maybe have a cheat day and you go binge out and then you feel bad again and then you're back to muscling and it's just, it's such a hard way to live.

Whereas if you get to the root cause, I know it's hard to get to root cause too. I get that. But if you can get there and then you finally have this new normal, right? Like the habit stacks and now you have this consistent, like I don't even think about the way I eat. Um, I had a friend come over, she slept over and she.

Try to do carnivore really strict like the beef salt and water for six months and she failed Or at least she said she failed and then she came over our house, and I didn't even think about the diet She was just coming to you know visit Austin And she [01:07:00] told me at the end of the trip And she was only here for three days and said The way that you ate made carnivore so normalized to me that I think I could do it and now she's nine months into carnivore And only because she saw how I made it normal.

But to me it's such a normal way of my life that I didn't even think once about it. And for her it was life changing. So I think it's, we just need to normalize these things and make it more approachable. Like I told her, if you really want to have a little bit of avocado mayo, then have mayo. Like cause she missed me or have a little bit of tomato.

If you're not intolerant of nightshades, like so what? You know? Um, and now she can do it. Whereas before she would try to district carnivore then go back to binging and she's now lost. I think like 70 pounds. That's incredible. Yeah. And like, but it took her to be less strict to be able to do it. Yes. What, um, what motivates you the most?

I think truthfully it's, uh, uh, making the world a better place for my kids. Like I worry that the [01:08:00] world will be hard. Oh my God. Whenever my kids come up, I get so emotional, but, um, my son is seven. They're seven and nine or now they're going to be eight and 10, but I don't want it to be a world where they don't know what's right information or the truth and then they have to maybe Scour the world for meat.

I would hate that and then like we're you know One world whatever the whatever the future may hold if it's worse than how it is now, that would make me sad So if I can have more people aligned with my kids That would be like that that is my biggest river aside from the God stuff. It's my kids Well, you're doing an amazing job, and it's honestly just like such a pleasure to know you and, um, just seeing the work that you're doing and how the impact that you're having is incredible.

So I know both of us really look up to you and appreciate all the work you're doing. So thank you so much for everything you're doing. Well, thank you. And for the work you guys do. I think you are really good at sharing reels and stories too in your, like, just [01:09:00] the truth about even regen or even about meat and the nutrient density I see.

Occasionally I'll see your guys posts and I think they're really powerful too. So thank you for what you guys do too. Yeah, I think we play off each other really well. It's like, like, finding the, like, finding the medium of content that really resonates with you. Like, for you, it's like the really deep research, the infographics, For us on Twitter, we just, like, loved writing and telling stories.

And I feel like too many people try and fit a square peg in a round hole where they're, where they see an influencer trying to do, like, a grocery store video critiquing it, uh, a label, and they feel like they have to talk into the camera like that. And, I don't know, I think everyone has a form of content that they, that they could go all in on that feels really natural, and if it's natural, you're gonna wanna do it day in and day out.

And, I don't know, I hope more people experiment and figure out the thing that they're supposed to be doing. I was listening to a business podcast not too long ago and um, I think it's pretty smart and scary, but they were saying that there's a lot of people that are blowing up on social media, especially at like on Tik Tok or on Instagram reels, YouTube [01:10:00] shorts.

And, but there are like no faces. So it's, it's not that they truly have a following, but they're just, you know, like, Oh, that was fine. I'm going to follow you. And they don't really have that following. And so if you do only things to feed the algorithm, which will make you super popular. But if they're not true, like your a thousand true fans or they're not truly dedicated to your work, you will, you're just feeding an algorithm.

And these social media sites, what they found with TikTok, sorry my nose keeps turning, but, um, what they found in TikTok is you can replace influencers because someone else will do the dance or someone else will share and they'll get popular. So all you're doing is you're curating TikTok for them, but then you can leave and you're replaceable.

Yes. Right? So then all the shorts and reels are doing that. And when I heard that I was like, Oh my gosh, that's so true. So there was this person that had, I don't know, two or 10 million followers went to an event and couldn't fill the room because they're just, they do reels. And so it's finding [01:11:00] a true community of people that really believe in, not just entertaining.

I mean, entertaining is super important, but it's having people that truly follow you for your content and for your mission and your passion and purpose. Because that will truly bring you a community. And what you're trying to build is a community. These social media apps are finding, oh, if we just have people follow the algorithm, we can make our platform popular and the influencers can change and it will be replaceable.

And that's scary. Definitely. That's scary. Yeah, I saw a quote the other day that I think it said, It tastes sweeter when it takes ten years. And I feel like when you actually listen to people that are truly successful, it seems like ten years is a long time. Good time frame to actually become successful, whatever venture, but social media, it's like this inorganic success where it's like, Hey, I can have one, one real go ridiculously viral and gain hundreds of thousands of followers and financially change my life.

And I, I don't know, that's not reality. And I think what we've accepted is like, we'd rather not post if it feels inorganic and wait until we find that like [01:12:00] lightning bolt of inspiration that's in line with our values. And I know you resonate with that. That's so good. Yeah. Um, I think when I initially went into the social media space, I think I was the biggest female account on Instagram and then I obviously went into Instagram jail for stuff.

But, and then it was, it was just, and then that Nehemiah stuff happened. So it was just all around the same time that I thought, am I placing my value on a number of followers? And, and it just made me start questioning things. And I had that success really quickly. And so I tasted it, but I knew that when I listened to all these business people, um, It took 10 years, right?

It's, you see the overnight success, but actually it was a 15 year overnight success. Taylor Swift, Mr. Beast, all of the big names, they've been doing at it for decades. And so, I think of it the same as us, like, I am okay growing slower, because we are not building a social media account. We are building a business, and we are building a practice where I think we set the precedence of, this is holistic [01:13:00] health care.

And this is what other people should follow. We are working on things behind the scenes that no one gets to see, right? But we are building it and in 10 years we expect fully to be thriving and um, even growing more. And it doesn't, and social media is not just the place like just cause I don't have more followers.

I mean, obviously it could feed your business, but that is not our metric of success right now. Yeah, it's so good. And I also, I feel like, you know, if the success can come in a matter of a few days or like a few weeks, you can also leave that quickly. You know, I like these people who blow up overnight.

It's like, like some of them just like blow up and then they're gone. You don't see them ever again. So yeah, it's like the musicians, the songs that are one hit wonders, like where are they? Right. Like I would hate to be that. Yeah. We are. Our goal is we use carnivores and elimination tool and we think nutrition is a fundamental for health.

But beyond that, we're a holistic health functional medicine practice and that is ultimately what I'm sharing. And if, since we started on social media, I will still be on there. I love, Interviewing like I get to [01:14:00] know you guys and I get to talk to you guys and and on my podcast I do the same right I get it I get access to people that I would never get access to and I get a pick their brain like that itself is so worth It for me to do what I'm doing And so in the interim as long as our practice is being Fueled and I think with our integrity with the values and everything that we're driven like I don't worry and if a time comes that I have to worry I'll worry But I trust the way that it's supposed to be and we are building slowly and I know that in 10 years we will be This is so much fun.

Thank you so much for doing this and just the work that you put out in the content and in the friendship. It's been so much fun. Thank you. guys for having me again.