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A Mayo Clinic podcast for laboratory professionals, physicians, and students, hosted by Justin Kreuter, M.D., assistant professor of laboratory medicine and pathology at Mayo Clinic, featuring educational topics and insightful takeaways to apply in your practice.
(upbeat music)
- This is "Lab Medicine Rounds",
a curated podcast for physicians,
laboratory professionals, and students.
I'm your host, Justin Kreuter,
a transfusion medicine pathologist
and Assistant Professor of
Laboratory Medicine and Pathology
at Mayo Clinic.
And today, we're rounding
with Jamie Herget.
Jamie serves as a placement coordinator
within the Department of
Laboratory Medicine and Pathology
here at Mayo Clinic.
Thanks for being here
with us today, Jamie.
- Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
- Well, we're excited to get your insights
on your role as a placement coordinator
about how we can kind of recruit people
into our laboratory profession.
That's quite a challenge
I think many people are struggling with .
And our audience, physicians,
laboratory professionals,
and students are all gonna be, I think,
smarter after hearing your wisdom.
- I certainly hope so. (laughs)
- Absolutely.
So, let's kick off
with maybe you can
underline highlight for us
why is recruitment a
really an important topic
to talk about in 2024?
- I think it's always an important topic,
but especially as we move into the future
and to try to stabilize our workforce.
I think that's probably the key.
The placement coordinators
here in the Department of Laboratory
and Medicine and Pathology
currently recruit for our
clinical lab technologist
and medical laboratory science roles.
According to the CDC, approximately
70% of medical decisions
depend on the laboratory test results,
showing the important role
of our clinical laboratories
and our clinical laboratory techs
and medical laboratory scientists
in today's healthcare system.
An increase in the
population of older adults
is expected to lead to greater
need for laboratory testing
to diagnose different medical conditions.
I was taking a look at the
Bureau of Labor Statistics
to prepare for this, and
actually they updated it
in September of 2023
and projected the MLS and CLT job roles
will grow at a rate of 5% through 2032,
which is faster than
average for all occupations.
- Wow, okay, so that really
does underline for us
it's always a challenge.
We can see as we look into the future,
there's gonna be more
laboratory medicine work being done,
and I like your use to the word stabilize.
One of the things I was wondering
for our audience listeners, right,
there's some of us that
I think are pretty savvy
to the language you just used
about medical laboratory scientists,
clinical laboratory technologists,
but maybe for our students
and maybe clinicians that
don't necessarily understand
how the black box of pathology works,
can you kind of help us understand
what are these roles,
what are these people who
we're talking about recruiting
to laboratory medicine,
what do they look like?
- Yeah, so specifically medical
laboratory science students,
they take a lot of biological science
and chemistry courses in school
and then they either major
in medical laboratory science
or they take a fifth year,
usually it's a fifth year,
for a certificate in
Medical Laboratory Science
where they are trained
to do laboratory testing.
And they go through clinical rotations
and they are highly
sought after candidates
across the nation in
our healthcare systems.
There has been a decline
in medical laboratory science
programs in recent years,
which has led to a more prominence
of the role of clinical
laboratory technologists.
Now, in Mayo, at Mayo Clinic specifically,
a clinical laboratory technologist
is someone who has majored
and graduated with a bachelor's degree,
a minimum of a bachelor's degree
in a biological science or chemistry.
So, they are trained
specifically in the laboratories
that they're hired into
to perform the laboratory
testing that's needed.
- I gotcha, so we're
talking about the people
that are performing the
lab tests in our hospital,
like so many TV shows
you almost see like the surgeons
are performing the tests,
(laughs) but the reality, of course,
is that that's not the case,
we have specialized people
that are trained to do this,
either you're saying medical
laboratory scientists
or people that have really
specifically trained
for laboratory testing,
which I think maybe we
could probably get into it
a little bit as far as what
does that skillset look like.
But then also we're talking about
clinical laboratory technologists,
like people that are doing or
they're having a background,
have a background in
medical science from college
and come to work in the lab
and get specific training.
Okay, so that really highlights for us
who are we talking about,
and so I imagine you're probably going
and recruiting at colleges
and medical laboratory science programs,
but I don't know, maybe
there's even other places
that are great to recruit
for our workforce.
I'm kind of curious,
can you kind of give
us some of your gestalt
over what are effective
strategies to recruit
and what doesn't really seem to work?
- Yeah, so it's great that
you asked this question
because we do actually get to
go really across the nation
to different colleges and universities,
to career fairs, that's
probably our primary area
that we will work to recruit
college students from.
A lot of our workforce
is that we are recruiting
is coming directly out of college,
so graduating with their bachelor's degree
and then moving on to the lab.
So, in my experience, what
works with recruiting someone
is really being authentic.
I think that's the most important thing.
I found that connecting with the audience
or that student is very essential.
Oftentimes that connection is made
by simply telling my story
and how I came to be in this career.
I started out as a
technologist in a laboratory
and worked my way into this
placement coordinator role.
So, we find a lot of success
also in tying our work to
our Mayo Clinic values.
There are a lot of people that wanna work
for an organization like Mayo Clinic.
And talking about our rich ties
and how each and every sample
that we see is a patient
and how important that patient sample is,
really people are really interested in
and students or prospective employees
really want to make a difference.
- [Justin] Mm-hmm.
- You know, we also speak
with a lot of candidates
that are on a pre-med track
or any other sort of kind of pre-track.
And we find success in letting
them know about this career
because it really could be a plan B or C
because maybe their
plan A doesn't work out,
but so that they know
that they have options,
they can still be very
impactful in healthcare,
they can utilize the degrees
that they've received immediately
and have a fulfilling or
start a fulfilling career.
- Hmm, so that's a
great thing to point out
'cause I think that a lot of times
people have felt that healthcare,
you have physicians and you have nurses
and maybe that's where the
story ends for a lot of people.
Do you think that the pandemic,
did that raise awareness of the laboratory
and the people performing these tests,
or has that not really
kind of carried through
to put us more on the radar
for the general public?
- My opinion is definitely
that the pandemic
has put medical laboratory science
and clinical laboratory
technologists on the radar.
You know, there was so much talk
about the testing for Covid.
And when asking about that testing,
it was who's completing that?
And we were able to really highlight
and focus the great work
that our laboratory technologists do,
not only for Covid testing,
but also for all other testing.
I know Jenna Kreitinger,
she's the other placement
coordinator with me,
and we will oftentimes talk about that,
you know, do you ever go to the
doctor and do you get a swab
or do you get a blood draw?
Well, what do you think happens to that?
You know, just asking
that leading question
about where do you think that sample goes?
What do you think happens?
And then that really sparks,
they're like, "Oh, I guess I
never really thought about it."
And it can lead into a great discussion
about the roles that we play
and how impactful we are in
the healthcare of each patient.
- Wow, so for making
that initial connection,
are there, so you're talking
about raising a question
is a great way to get people
to spark their curiosity
and start that conversation.
Are there strategies
you've seen over the years
that is like, "Ah, this
usually strikes out,"
but that I think a lot
of people might be using?
- So, I think just handing out brochures,
you know, like having a
tabletop full of brochures
and not connecting and not talking.
Sometimes I'll be quite honest,
we're at career fairs and it's so busy
that I do not have the time to connect
with each and every student
or person that stops by.
Sometimes they'll come
back, which is great
because they'll say, "Yeah,
I had to wait too long
so I had to come back."
I love that because I know
they're really interested,
but we will also leave those events
and we'll see like our little
postcards on the floor.
Now, whether they dropped them on purpose
or whether they dropped them accidentally,
we don't know for sure,
but really having to
make those connections.
The pandemic also highlighted
or it gave us the option
to do things virtually,
which did allow us to speak
to so many more people,
so that has also helped.
But being able to still
give them resources,
so it's maybe a link to a website
or even just saying,
"Here's my email address,"
and putting it in the chat,
"reach out to me so that we can connect
about future opportunities."
So, yeah,
- I like that, so you know that
I think you're highlighting
this connection again
because that is the
invitation for authenticity,
that's in the invitation to discuss
values of a medical center.
But I guess like you're saying,
just giving out pamphlets
is not a good surrogate for our ability
to recruit in because we're
lacking that connection.
I'm curious, so keeping
in mind our listeners,
so we're having clinicians,
we're having laboratory
professionals and students,
how could each of us in
these different groups
become better ambassadors
for our profession
and hopefully kind of amplify
the efforts that you're doing?
- Yeah, so I mean, I really wanna focus
on this shortage of clinical
laboratory technologists
in medical laboratory science.
So, even as clinicians and physicians
talking with others,
especially teenagers and younger adults,
about what it's like to be in a laboratory
or to work in a laboratory.
Career awareness is critical
in staffing our labs for the future.
As I mentioned in my earlier answer,
when talking with others, make
it personal and make it real.
I think that people resonate
with that so much more
than, again, maybe just a brochure
or telling that real life story
really helps them connect.
It's a really great way
to describe what we do
to provide perspective
on different career paths
and the importance of what we do.
Another great way is to foster the idea
of how fun science is with children.
Now, of course, we're maybe not creating
career awareness with children yet,
but if they think science is fun,
they might really be
interested in this role
10, 15 years from now,
which is when we're really
still gonna probably need
to have these people
entering our workforce.
Jenna and I participated in an event
at the Kasson Mantorville
schools last spring
where we visited with 4th graders
and we had fun scientific experiments
and there were several organizations
that were present there as well,
but to really just highlight
how fun science is.
And the more we can do of that,
I think the better off
we'll be in the future.
We need to not just focus on
the college students of today,
we need to focus on the
future college students.
- Hmm, interesting.
So, so that there is value
to highlight for everybody
in you're not recruiting them
to work the next year or two,
but in the school system
and to encourage that science is fun,
and your CEC value in that,
and that people are then going to college
maybe pursuing that science degree,
setting them up for these opportunities.
- Exactly, and that science career,
it might lead to medical
laboratory scientists,
it might lead to nursing,
it might lead to being a physician,
but it at least sets them up
for that future in science.
- You know, and I know having interviewed
a lot of people for medical school
and also for residency programs,
there's a number of people
that will maybe start off
in medical laboratory science
and then go into nursing
or medical school as a next career.
So, there's neat opportunities,
I think that certainly kind of
provides a unique perspective
for those future nurses and physicians.
I imagine that so as
we're talking in 2024,
I imagine that new tools may be opening up
for kind of new
opportunities in recruitment.
Again, you're highlighting
this idea of connection
and I'm kinda curious,
are there anything that you're
kind of excited to try out
in the coming months?
- Well, I wish I could say that there is.
To my knowledge, we don't
have any new tools per se
at our fingertips,
but we are excited about
making our information
more accessible by utilizing QR codes.
So, definitely not a
new tool by any means,
but a really a newer tool
for us with recruitment
and using less paper,
so it's a win-win there.
I mentioned earlier that the pandemic
opened up a lot of virtual
recruitment opportunities.
So, we continue to use those
to spread the word
about this career choice
and about Mayo Clinic across
the nation, which is great.
We also work closely with
our human resources partners
to closely identify schools
and areas we should focus on.
We're really excited
about our collaboration
with the Office of Academic Partnerships
here at Mayo Clinic,
which allows us to partner
and recruit at historically
Black colleges and universities
as well as a work study partnership
that we now have with the
University of Minnesota Rochester.
Another thing that really is gonna play
a larger role in 2024 is social media.
You know, that's been around for a while,
but we continue to use
things like LinkedIn.
Indeed, Handshake, TikTok is gonna be new.
So, there's definitely,
you're gonna see Mayo Clinic out there
on TikTok a little bit more.
So, I think that those
are creative resources
that can bring this
information to the public.
- Wow, you know, well you
mentioned QR codes and such,
I just recently heard a
innovative medical educator talk
and talk about how they use QR codes.
So, I think some of these technologies
that we're getting our hands around,
there's novel ways that we can use them.
I'm kind of curious, so for our listeners,
if they are reaching out
and providing their story
or getting people curious,
maybe clinicians that are
kind of if they hear somebody
interested in medical school
to if they want to help them
understand other careers in healthcare
so that people can understand
what are their opportunities,
is there like a professional website
that you generally send people
to that you kind of advise
and say, "If somebody's
interested in a career
in laboratory medicine,
what would be a great
resource to give them?"
- Well, unfortunately,
I don't really have a great
resource to give them.
I always direct them to
our Mayo Clinic website
because that's where we want them to go.
You know, we do have a clinical
laboratories landing page
on our external career website,
www.jobsatmayoclinic.org
or I'm not 100% sure on
if I said that correctly,
but that's usually where I direct them.
We also have a Medical
Laboratory Science program
through the Mayo Clinic
School of Health Sciences.
I think that would be a great way
to learn a little bit more
about that medical laboratory profession
and what that schooling might look like.
- Hmm, great, great.
And then, any final thoughts
on words of advice for people
that are trying to make
those initial connections
and share the story of what's
it like to work in a lab?
- Be authentic.
Don't sugarcoat it.
I mean, I think that being honest
that it maybe isn't always glamorous,
but at the end of the day, if
you want to help a patient,
then this is a great career to be in,
especially if you don't
wanna be patient facing.
You know, we do a lot of
great work behind the scenes,
for lack of a better way to say it.
We still play a vital role,
we just don't necessarily get to see
that patient face-to-face.
- Wow, we've been rounding
with the very authentic Jamie Herget.
Thanks for being with us here today.
- Thank you.
(upbeat music)
- And to all of our listeners,
thank you for joining us.
We invite you to share your thoughts
and suggestions by email
to mcleducation@mayo.edu.
If you've enjoyed this
podcast, please subscribe.
Until our next rounds together,
we encourage you to continue
to connect lab medicine
and the clinical practice through
educational conversations.
(upbeat music continues)