Lead On Podcast

On this episode of The Lead On Podcast, Jeff Iorg, president of the SBC Executive Committee, discusses the biblical and practical significance of the pastoral calling, emphasizing its high, noble, and character-driven nature. He explores the family and community dimensions of pastoral ministry while urging churches and leaders to actively promote and support this essential calling.

Creators and Guests

Host
Jeff Iorg
President, SBC Executive Committee

What is Lead On Podcast?

Ready to hone your leadership skills and unlock your full potential? Tune in to the Lead On Podcast, where Jeff Iorg dives deep into Biblical leadership.

Hosted by SBC Executive Committee President Jeff Iorg, this dynamic podcast provides insight for seasoned executives, aspiring leaders, or those in ministry who are simply passionate about personal growth. The Lead On Podcast offers actionable, practical tips to help you navigate the complexities of ministry leadership in today's ever-changing world.

From effective communication and team building to strategic decision-making and fostering innovation, each episode is packed with valuable lessons and inspiring stories to empower you on your leadership journey.

Put these principles into practice and Lead On!

Jeff Iorg:

Welcome to the Lead On Podcast. This is Jeff Iorg, the president of the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, continuing our ongoing conversation about practical issues related to ministry leadership. This is the second of a two part podcast that I'm doing. Last week, I talked about the value of pastors, shared some testimonials about, pastors who've impacted my life, and then talked about pastoral longevity and a study by LifeWay Research that shows most pastors have a fairly long career of pastoral ministry and stay with it, very few step out of pastoral ministry. But then I talked about at the end of last week's podcast some reasons why pastors sometimes do change churches or do step from one ministry to another.

Jeff Iorg:

Well, today, I wanna talk about the second part of this emphasis on pastoral ministry and that is talk about the calling to be a pastor. Now you may say, well, I don't really need to listen to this because I know I'm not gonna be

Jeff Iorg:

a pastor. Well, you don't know that. K? If you're

Jeff Iorg:

a guy out there listening to this podcast, perhaps you do need to listen to this podcast and think about the possibility that God might be calling you. But second, even if you're not called to be a pastor, it's important for you to understand the call to pastoral ministry, why it's so important, why we have to communicate it so clearly, and the value that pastors have who answer God's call to local churches. So today, let's talk about the call to pastoral ministry. And I wanna do this in the context of an alarming issue, and that is the decreasing percentage of people who attend seminary today who are focused on becoming pastors. Now, when I went to seminary a long time ago, almost everyone there was focused on a very specific calling in ministry leadership.

Jeff Iorg:

Most wanted to either be a pastor or a missionary. Some wanted to be a staff pastor, usually a minister of education or youth or something like that, and some wanted to be in ministry of music or worship. But there were clearly these outcomes that people were training for when they came to seminary. Now, I was a seminary president for twenty years, we track this with continual surveys among students. One of the clear things that changed over the last twenty to thirty years is that more and more students are coming to seminary as a formation experience, not as a polishing or a completion experience.

Jeff Iorg:

In other words, they come to seminary to find out or to discover more about their spiritual development and where they're supposed to be going in response to God than coming to seminary to receive the training to do a specific job or responsibility that they already feel called to do. Now that's not necessarily all bad because we're glad for young adults who are coming for formative experiences. But the troubling part of it was how few of the men in that group really identified themselves as being called to be pastors. Now we identified, as we do with the kind of research and surveying, several reasons why men were reluctant to commit to being pastors. One, quite frankly, was because they were discouraged by the level of difficulty they saw pastors dealing with in local churches.

Jeff Iorg:

A common theme was people would say, I don't know if I wanna be a pastor because I don't wanna deal with all the nonsense. We're not talking about dealing with substantive issues. We're talking about people who are just frustrated because they don't like the color of the carpet or the way the bulletin fonts were selected or some song that was sung that they didn't think was appropriate. This kind of thing, when people observe pastors having to deal with it, demotivates men to want to become pastors. Another demotivator was the fact that many people who come to seminary today didn't grow up in church.

Jeff Iorg:

They became Christians in college or sometimes even after that. So because of that, they don't have any experience of watching pastors and knowing what pastors are like or seeing the benefit that they provide. They've just simply never seen pastoral ministry modeled. And so they don't know how to choose it or want to do it because they've never seen it done in a way that models or inspires them to want to have that role. Well, there were some other reasons, but that's not the point of today's podcast.

Jeff Iorg:

The point today is we need to understand the calling to be a pastor, how it's communicated in

Jeff Iorg:

the Bible, and why it's so important. Because every one of us, pastor and non pastor alike, needs to be talking about, promoting, asking people to consider being called out to take on this responsibility of being a pastor. Now let's start at this point. The Bible tells us that the pastoral call is a high calling. In first Timothy chapter three verse one, the pastoral office is described as a noble work to which a person aspires.

Jeff Iorg:

Now, this raises the question of ambition in ministry, and the Bible affirms it. The Bible says, being a pastor is a noble work that persons should aspire to have. A noble work that men should aspire to. Now just think about that. A pastor is supposed to be someone you look up to, someone you want to be like.

Jeff Iorg:

The pastoral office responsibility is supposed to be a high calling, an uplifted calling, a calling that has dignity and honor and prestige attached to it. The pastoral office, regardless of the person holding it, is supposed to be significant. And in fact, the office or the role itself actually

Jeff Iorg:

elevates the status of the occupant, not the other way around. Now, pastoral ministry is this high and holy, honorable calling. It's a noble work that we should aspire to, and we should call out other people and say, We want you to do this because it's an office that we want people to take because we want to look up to them

Jeff Iorg:

and follow their leadership. Well, I wish everyone thought that. You know, when I was in college,

Jeff Iorg:

I had a friend whose father was the vice president of a multinational

Jeff Iorg:

company, And he asked me one time

Jeff Iorg:

while I was at their home about my career plans. Now, this particular man did not profess any relationship with God and was not certainly an active Christian. So he asked me, what do you plan to do when you finish, school? I said, well, I'm going to be a pastor. He replied, and I'll never forget what he

Jeff Iorg:

said, why would you want to waste your life doing that? He didn't say it humorous way or like it was some kind of an insider joke or anything like that. He looked me dead in the eye and said, why would you want to waste your life doing that? He thought nothing could be more irrelevant than leading a church, having the care of souls, and representing the gospel to a community? Well, the Bible has a very different view.

Jeff Iorg:

The Bible says the office of pastor is a noble work that we aspire to.

Jeff Iorg:

You know, African American churches elevate the pastoral office in tangible ways, and in doing these things, they really underscore how highly they value the pastoral role. For example, in many African American churches, there are two pulpits. There is one pulpit, that's for the pastor. He speaks from that pulpit, and only he speaks from that pulpit. And then there's a smaller podium, often off to the side or even down lower on the floor, and that smaller podium is for all others to use.

Jeff Iorg:

And so as persons come to make announcements, to, lead in prayer, to read scripture, they come to the second pulpit. Well, a few years ago, a good friend of mine took a missions team to Los Angeles, California, and they were working in the community near Mount Zion Baptist Church where doctor E. V. Hill was the pastor. They went to the service that morning as a group of mostly Anglo missionary kids from high school and junior high, and they participated in the service.

Jeff Iorg:

Of course, they were blown away by everything they experienced, and of course, the dynamic preaching of Doctor. E. V. Hill. When the service was over, the kids wanted to get some pictures taken in the church and in various places.

Jeff Iorg:

And so one of the young men walked up to the platform and was going to walk over to the pulpit and just have his picture taken. Now he wasn't doing anything wrong. He wasn't being silly about it or making a scene or doing anything offensive. He's just a 15, 16 year old boy who just wants to have his picture taken up there where this great man was preaching the gospel just a few moments before. But as he got near the pulpit,

Jeff Iorg:

one of the deacons intercepted him and very kindly, but very firmly said, young man, please step away from that pulpit. Only doctor Hill stands there. Now, that pulpit in that church is a powerful symbol of the pastor, of

Jeff Iorg:

the office of the pastor, of the man who occupies that office, and

Jeff Iorg:

the church's respect for all of it. Now, I'm

Jeff Iorg:

not suggesting that every church needs two pulpits or anything like that. I'm simply saying that there are churches that have tangible expressions of pastoral nobility, if you will, drawing from first Timothy three, that simply say, this is special. It stands out. It's different. And we want it that way because we wanna remember that pastors

Jeff Iorg:

are different kind of people. They're special leaders, and we recognize and honor that. Now, the pastoral office is also important because of who's being led.

Jeff Iorg:

The Bible says in Ephesians three that the church is the administration of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things. This means that the church is God's ultimate goal. As verse 11 of Ephesians three says, it's his purpose for the ages. Having a people for his eternal companionship is God's forever plan, and pastors lead that organization. They lead that organism.

Jeff Iorg:

Pastors lead the church. When you consider the exalted position of the church in God's overall plan, you understand why I believe pastors have a very high office. You know, the president of The United States is more important than the president of

Jeff Iorg:

the Rotary Club. Why? Because of the power and influence and scope of who and what he leads. The United States, far more significant than the Rotary Club. Now, they're

Jeff Iorg:

both presidents, I get that,

Jeff Iorg:

but one certainly towers over the other. Well, think about this. A pastor leads the church. The church. The outworking of the mystery of God for the ages, the result of the gospel being proclaimed in the world today, and the assembly of the people who are going to be

Jeff Iorg:

God's eternal companions forever. Listen, the person who gets to lead that,

Jeff Iorg:

that is a very important person, pastors.

Jeff Iorg:

So the role of pastor is a high calling. It's a high calling because the bible calls it a noble work worthy of aspiration. It's something you can aspire to. Pastors are people we wanna hold up a bit. It's a group of people that we wanna look to.

Jeff Iorg:

It's people who have a high position. They have that position partly because of how the Bible describes the office, but also because of the organization or the organism that they're leading,

Jeff Iorg:

the church. And because of that, pastoral ministry is a high calling.

Jeff Iorg:

Well, the Bible goes on to say that pastoral call is also a character

Jeff Iorg:

calling. Again, in first Timothy chapter three, Paul described a pastor this way, as above reproach, self controlled, sensible, respectable, hospitable, not addicted to wine, not a bully, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not greedy, having a good reputation among outsiders. Notice, all of those descriptors are about his character. These character qualities raise a high standard of personal comportment and emotional control. Pastors are defined primarily by their character.

Jeff Iorg:

Now, they have roles and functions to be sure. This passage of scripture also talks about preaching, teaching, leading, I get that. But the overwhelming emphasis in the Bible when describing the role of pastors and the expectations of pastors is about their character.

Jeff Iorg:

Pastors are required to be examples of Christian character and Christian character development. You know, the first phrase, above reproach, that's a pretty dawning standard, to be honest with you. Pastors are to live in such a way that others can copy their attitudes and behavior. Frankly, I think this is also one of the reasons some people don't want to be pastors is because they do not want the pressure of having people follow them. They do not want the pressure of being a moral and ethical example in their church or community.

Jeff Iorg:

Now you might say, hang

Jeff Iorg:

on just a minute. We need to

Jeff Iorg:

be careful about putting pastors on a pedestal and expecting them to live these exemplary lives that are above a reproach, if you will. Well, I understand what you might feel, but the Bible indicates otherwise. Pastors are expected to live differently. They're expected to be above reproach. Now, this doesn't mean that pastors are on the perfection pedestal, but it does mean they are up on a little bit of

Jeff Iorg:

a pedestal. No pastor is perfect. Everyone knows that. They're not expected to be perfect, but they are expected to be examples. Part of modeling Christian character of and being above reproach is is modeling the transparency to admit weakness, to confess sin, to receive forgiveness, and to live as examples of even doing those things when we're not perfect.

Jeff Iorg:

So yes, pastors, because of their character expectations and the demands placed upon them by Scripture, they're expected to be above reproach. And that means we put them up on a little bit

Jeff Iorg:

of a pedestal. I understand that. Not a perfection pedestal because when they make mistakes, we expect them to model for us how to handle mistakes. But on a pedestal, nevertheless, because we are looking up to them as examples, as models of what it means to live the Christian faith in our particular context, our community. You know, pastors have to make the decision along the way that there's just some things they can't be involved in,

Jeff Iorg:

some places they can't frequent, some activities they have to pass on. Now they have

Jeff Iorg:

to make the decision to forego some attitudes and give up some perspectives because they have to adopt the character that's required of being a leader of a church. You know, I have a friend who has a

Jeff Iorg:

little little sign on his desk that says this. It says, others may, I cannot. Others may, I cannot. It's a simple reminder that this person has on his desk that he's called to live differently. That what others may do and do freely, he simply cannot do and still remain above reproach.

Jeff Iorg:

You know, I've got

Jeff Iorg:

a couple of things. I'm not gonna tell you what they are. I've got a couple of things that over the years I've thought, you know, I'd really like to try that. I'd really like

Jeff Iorg:

to do that. I'd like to get involved in that. And quite honestly, I don't think most people would care, but some would.

Jeff Iorg:

And I have to weigh out, is getting involved in these activities really going to be that important to me if it's gonna compromise in some way my reputation or the, integrity or the character that people expect of me? So I've made the decision. You know, others may, but, I

Jeff Iorg:

cannot. Now, another aspect of pastoral ministry being a character calling is that pastoral ministry will test your character. Being a pastor is a tough job, and pastoral leadership is often a crucible for character development.

Jeff Iorg:

And God uses the role to refine us like a refining fire that smelts out our impurities, and pastoral ministry is challenging. That's one reason some people don't want to be a

Jeff Iorg:

part of it because they know that if they go into pastoral ministry, God's gonna use those circumstances to work them over

Jeff Iorg:

and make of them someone that'll have

Jeff Iorg:

to be refined in order to continue to do the job. Wow. Being in pastoral ministry is challenging to our character and demands of us growth.

Jeff Iorg:

Well, let me talk about a third thing that comes out of this same text, first Timothy three, and that is that pastoral calling is a family calling. A pastoral ministry, like many other roles, often involves the entire family. Paul wrote that a pastor must be the, quote, the husband of one wife and one who manages his own household competently, having his children under control with all dignity. Now the focus on these messages is oftentimes debating, you what does it mean to be the husband of one wife? What does it mean to have children under control?

Jeff Iorg:

All of that. But I wanna move past that for the podcast today and make the larger point. And that is the larger point is that pastoral calling involves family. There's no escaping the reality that a pastor's family is significantly involved in his work. Now pastors take precautions to preserve their family's identity and and their family's participation in their ministry without appropriate outside pressure and without involving the family in things that they they really don't need

Jeff Iorg:

to know about. I know that when I was

Jeff Iorg:

a pastor, I was careful that, you know, I didn't talk about all things about church and church people in front of my wife and certainly not in front of my children. I wanted to protect them a little bit from some of the difficulties and challenges that I was dealing with in those contexts. But despite the protections that pastors put up and the the ways they try to screen or protect their family, there's no denying it. It is very difficult to lead a church and keep your family entirely isolated from knowing about your pastoral responsibilities and functions. It just really isn't gonna happen.

Jeff Iorg:

And so there must be something about this though that's that's good and enriching and positive for families who find themselves engaged through their father and husband in pastoral ministry.

Jeff Iorg:

So let's talk about that. First of all, most pastors have a wife, and most pastors' wives are the finest people that God ever put on this earth.

Jeff Iorg:

They stand alongside their husbands through thick and thin, through difficulties and challenges that sometimes only the two of them know about. They not only do that supportive work personally, but they oftentimes take on ministry roles and responsibilities in a church. You'll find them singing on the worship team, playing an instrument in the band, teaching a children's Sunday school class, leading a women's bible study, sitting down and counseling a young woman that may be in crisis, going out on personal visitation and trying to share the gospel in her community, joining community events and being involved in those kinds of experiences to further the reputation of their church and reach out to new people with the gospel, and on and on and on I could go.

Jeff Iorg:

Listen. Thank God for pastors' wives. Pastoral ministry is a family calling, and when

Jeff Iorg:

a pastor takes on that responsibility, he often has a wife who comes alongside of him and stands with him through all of it. And then there's also children. Now some people resist pastoral calling and because their their fear, it will negatively impact their family. And and I know there are examples where pastoral ministry may have negatively impacted a family, but that is not necessarily a required or automatic or even common. I know, for example, one young man whose father was a pastor, and they had a really horrific experience in a particular church.

Jeff Iorg:

The church, frankly, did the pastor wrong, and it was pretty ugly. And this young man saw it as a young teenager, and he said, I will never ever get involved in anything like that. And then when God called him into ministry, he said, I'll do anything, but I won't be a pastor. And then the pressure point the pressure began to build, and finally he had to come to grips with the reality that he was using what had happened to his family in the past as an excuse to not pursue pastoral ministry. And today he's in pastoral ministry and a very effective and happy pastor, I might add.

Jeff Iorg:

So, yes, there are examples like that where young men, young women are impacted by what happens negatively to their pastor or father, and some drop out and never come back. But some, like my friend, did come through and see the value of pastoral ministry despite what had happened in their family. But let me talk about the more positive aspects of it.

Jeff Iorg:

You know, when you're a pastoral family, your children get the blessings of being in that context.

Jeff Iorg:

Here's some what what I mean. If you're a pastor, your family, your children get to go to work with you and see what you do. When I left pastoral ministry, my youngest son was only five, he asked his mother one day, What does daddy do? She said, Well, he works for the Northwest Baptist Convention. He said, I know, but what does he do?

Jeff Iorg:

He was so baffled about me having a job that he couldn't observe or be a part of or watch me in action. I was his father, yes, but I was also his pastor, and he saw me doing that weekly, and it was a comfort to him and

Jeff Iorg:

a blessing to him and a challenge to him. So my children got

Jeff Iorg:

to see me at work and got to be a part of that. Also, later on in life when I started traveling and speaking and doing other things, my children would go with me and get to see and experience the conferences and the places and the people and expand their lives because of that. Another thing that when you're a pastor, your family get to experience the best people on earth. That's church people. Now you say, Oh, now wait a minute.

Jeff Iorg:

Church people can be difficult. A few of them

Jeff Iorg:

are, but I'm telling you most of

Jeff Iorg:

the time, church friends, church members, church brothers and sisters, they're the greatest people in the world, and they become surrogate aunts and uncles and grandparents and almost like cousins to your

Jeff Iorg:

children. Listen, when I had cancer a few years ago, it was

Jeff Iorg:

a Baptist church that rallied around me, and it rallied around our family. Cared for my wife, took care of my kids, made sure we had everything we needed to get through those difficult months. I'm telling you, pastors' families have a unique opportunity because they experience Christians at a deeper level and in a way that most people don't ever get

Jeff Iorg:

to. Then your family also gets to see God at work,

Jeff Iorg:

I mean, up close and

Jeff Iorg:

personal. There's no

Jeff Iorg:

way you can keep your family from knowing about some of the stuff you're dealing with as a pastor, but your family gets to see it. They get the honor of seeing God at work in the lives of people, changing people, healing families, accomplishing good. They get to see the work of the church up close, they get to see a little bit of a behind the scenes view of when God comes through and something great happens. Another part of this is your family get to see other Christian leaders. One of the cool things now is when I go out and speak in churches, I oftentimes get to meet the children of pastors and their families.

Jeff Iorg:

I always take an extra minute to just sit down and talk with them if I can and just encourage them and let them know I notice them and I appreciate them and answer their questions about what I do or about life or ministry that they may have. Now, I'm not the biggest Christian leader in the world, but, you know, I've got a little bit of responsibility that I've gained over the years. And because of that, I have some influence with people who with young people who wanna sit down and talk with me about these things. And I I cherish that stewardship, and I'm grateful for it. And I think back when I was a pastor, and I would have special speakers come to our church or conference leaders or people like that, I always wanted to make sure that my kids got a chance to meet them and talk with them and experience them and be

Jeff Iorg:

influenced by them. That's a good thing. So I'm telling you,

Jeff Iorg:

pastoral ministry, pastoral calling is a family calling, and yet has a little downside from now and again, but overwhelmingly, it's a positive experience for people moving in pastoral ministry. And then finally, this text also says, first Timothy three, that pastoral call is a community calling. It says in first Timothy three seven that pastors must have a good reputation with outsiders. Now, when you serve a church for a little while, you begin to be the pastor of the entire community. I remember when I had been at my first church for about five or six years, I started having people introduce me to their friends and say, well, is my pastor, Jeff Orge.

Jeff Iorg:

And I would think, when did I become your pastor? You're not even a member of my church. Well, I was their cousin's pastor. I was their brother's pastor. I was their brother in law's pastor.

Jeff Iorg:

I I had done their family funerals and their family weddings, they just thought me thought of me as their pastor. I was a community pastor. That's what it means to have a good reputation with outsiders. People begin to think of you as their pastor even when you're really not because they wanna associate with you because of the ministry and impact you've had maybe in their larger family. Hey, listen.

Jeff Iorg:

The pastoral calling, we gotta lift it up again. If you're a pastor, I'm challenging you to preach occasionally on this. If you're a Bible teacher, Bible study leader, collegiate minister, youth pastor, talk about pastoral calling and challenge young men to consider the possibility of becoming pastors. Now I know only God calls, but God calls usually through some voice coming out of a human being saying, let me talk to you about what it means to be a pastor. So I'm challenging you today to lift up pastoral calling.

Jeff Iorg:

Pastoral calling is a noble calling. It is a calling to a high work the Bible said is worthy of aspiration, not only because of the office itself, but because of who pastors lead, the church, the ultimate purpose of God in the universe. Pastoral calling is a character calling. It calls out of us character. We're supposed to be examples to others, and it'll also test our character along the way.

Jeff Iorg:

But in doing that, we become models for people of what it means to really and genuinely follow Jesus in our worlds today.

Jeff Iorg:

And then it's a family calling.

Jeff Iorg:

There's nothing to fear about taking your family into pastoral ministry. Pastor's wives, most of them thrive in the pastoral role. And pastoral children, yep, there's gonna be some negative struggles along the way, But for the most part, pastoral ministry is a great opportunity to be influenced by good and by good people and by Christian people and by church people who'll make the difference in our lives. And then, of course, pastoral calling is an opportunity to impact community. As you stay in a community for a while, you become more than just the pastor of a church, but you become the pastor of a community where people look to you for guidance and direction.

Jeff Iorg:

And when they do have spiritual need, they turn to you for the help they that they're looking for. Well, two parts of these two podcasts. First, last week, we talked about the value of pastoral ministry and I gave some testimony about what pastors have meant to me. We talked about the pastoral longevity and the fact of the matter is most pastors stay with it for a long time. We talked about why pastors do change churches and some things to be aware of if you're a pastor that may lead you to do that at some point in your ministry.

Jeff Iorg:

But this week, we've talked about the high calling of being a pastor. We accept that calling if we are pastors, We issue that potential or possibility of that calling to others so that we might have more pastors in the future. If you're a pastor, thank God for you. Thank God for answering his call and for serving him. If you're not a pastor, will you take up your responsibility, whatever that may be, in teaching, educating, mentoring, motivating, and calling out, if you will, a new generation of pastors?

Jeff Iorg:

Pastors are the most important leaders in the kingdom. They stand at the crossroads of everything else that happens. We need more pastors to step forward. We need more young men to take on the call, and we need those of us who do have it, stay with it. Keep the pastoral call at the forefront of all we're doing as we lead on.