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The Thing We Never Talk About is an educational podcast about personal finance for creatives and other weirdos. We'll discuss managing cash flow with a lumpy income, when to save & when to invest, and how to reduce stress & build confidence when it comes to your money. No hot stock tips, no complicated strategies, and no finance bro jargon. We'll hear from artists, musicians, creative professionals, and other weirdos about how they navigate these questions for themselves. The Thing We Never Talk About is hosted by Timothy Iseler, CFP®, a former recording & touring audio engineer with 18 years experience in the music industry.
Timothy Iseler: So Matt, I end
every conversation with a question
from my guest, and here's what you
wrote: "One of the next steps in
my journey would be to create a
loan-out company for my acting work.
What advice would you give to someone
who's had a lifetime of 9:00 to 5:00
jobs working for other people looking
into creating and managing a self-run
small business for the first time?"
Hi, everybody.
Welcome to The Thing We Never Talk About.
My name is Tim Iseler.
I'm a certified financial planner,
and I run my own independent financial
advisory business, helping musicians,
artists, and other people with weird jobs.
You can learn more at iselerfinancial.com.
If you have a question about money or
personal finance, please send it to me
by visiting iselerfinancial.com/podcast,
and I will answer it in a future episode.
And if you enjoyed this podcast,
please share it with a friend.
After that, please like and
subscribe to the show wherever
you are listening to it right now.
Today I'm speaking with Matthew Wortz,
an actor based in New York City.
Matt and I have known each other for
almost 30 years, and I was genuinely
really surprised when clips from
his film and television work started
showing up in my social media feed.
As it turns out, after decades in
conventional employment doing web design,
Matt was laid off a few years ago and
decided to try something completely new
by showing up for an open call for extras.
Now he's a member of the SAG-AFTRA
union, and Matt has been working
his way up through the world of
background and featured extra work,
and he's thinking seriously about
the next phase of his acting career.
You can find Matt on Instagram at Matthew
Wortz, and Wortz is spelled W-O-R-T-Z.
So thank you for being here, and
please enjoy this conversation
with actor Matthew Wortz
Matthew Wortz: How's it going?
Timothy Iseler: It's going well.
How are you?
Matthew Wortz: Good, good
Timothy Iseler: Matt, what do you
tell people you do for a living?
Matthew Wortz: Uh, well
now I say I am an actor,
Timothy Iseler: Okay
Matthew Wortz: a little strange to say
s- still, 'cause it's a newer thing
for me within the last couple years,
and, uh, kind of pivoting to it.
Timothy Iseler: Mhm
Matthew Wortz: it's a big change
and working on making this my pivot.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
So you and I have known each other
for almost 30 years, but I was
totally surprised when you started
posting in your social media about
different acting work you'd done.
How did that transition happen?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, I got laid off
from my job and then was trying to
find something else in that area.
I was doing web UI/UX design
for financial institutions.
And then, just with the market changes,
they like, laid off people and I was one.
And then through there it's beenâ¦
It was hard to get back into it
'cause I kind of also reached an age
where I feel like I aged out of it.
And then I'd be going up against, you
know, new kids coming up and they'd
see me with, when I had likeâ¦
You could see my gray beard a little
kind of filling in on the sides.
So then it was, uh, just trying to
find something to do to stay active.
And I was looking at other things, doing
like some, you know, do I volunteer?
Do I do this, do this?
And I'm like, you know, I'm in New York.
I've always loved film and television.
I'm like at the epicenter of it, let
me just sign up for something, be an
extra in, like, a 400-person scene.
And it was like a, just a
crazy experience for me.
It felt like it just activated
different parts of my brain that being
on set, seeing all this action, I
was like, "Wow, this is really cool.
This is really interesting," seeing,
you know, everyone doing every little
part of the thing to make it work.
And from there I just kept going and then,
you know, there's like the, the network of
people doing the, like, background extras.
They're like, "Oh yeah, here,
you know, here's other places.
Sign up with them.
Here's other places.
Sign up through them."
And just from there it
has been snowballing.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
I've never been on a film
shoot, so I don't know.
Like, do extras get paid?
Is it a vol- Like, how does it work?
Are you getting paid when
you sign up to do that?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, you get paid.
It's like, it's pre- the pay is
pretty bad when you're starting.
It's really bad when you're non-union.
Timothy Iseler: Hmm
Matthew Wortz: And then
everything is a scale.
So the union sets up a scale for
different types of roles when you're,
like, really starting out, and then
non-union is on a separate scale.
Timothy Iseler: Mhm
Matthew Wortz: So those jobs are
like, it's very hard work, it's v-
very long hours, and almost no pay.
Like you're, you know, minimum
wage to be on set for 16 hours and,
you know, just grunting it out.
Like, run up these stairs 90
times, that kind of thing.
Soâ¦
Timothy Iseler: and is the union
in question, is that SAG-AFTRA?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, yeah.
So SAG-AFTRA is the actors union.
Timothy Iseler: When did you join that?
Matthew Wortz: So it's almost been
a year that I've been in the union.
Timothy Iseler: How does that work?
Do you have to get someone to, like,
nominate you or do you just apply?
How does it work?
Matthew Wortz: No, well, s- yeah, SAG is
like you, you have to get, there's like
the Taft-Hartley waivers, you can get
three of them through working as a union,
so basically you're filling a union role
for that day, and that can happen for
various reasons, like either they, you
know, someone cancels at the last minute
and you're non-union and you, you kind
of fit the look that they're going for.
They'll say, "Oh, hey, you, you
know, you're working union today."
If you, it- They'll ask you how
many waivers you have, and if you're
able to work union for the day.
So then you can get some that way.
If you have, like, a unique skill or a
unique look, can get them that way too.
Timothy Iseler: Hmm.
Okay.
So you mentioned that when you
join the union, you get a pay bump.
Where are there other, like, pay
differences that people outside
the industry might not know?
Like, obviously a speaking role is
bigger than a non-speaking role, but, you
know, just what are the differences that
people like me probably don't know about?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
Uh, there's like the non-union
level, then there's different, like
you s- you know, speaking roles
are bigger, then if you're like a,
know, main cast member or if you're
like a ongoing recurring guest star.
There's those different levels.
And then, know, once you get way up there,
you kinda are negotiating your own rates,
and then you're no longer, you know,
that's different stratosphere that I'm
still looking up at with a telescope.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
What kind of work have you had so
far that's not just extra work?
Matthew Wortz: it's pretty much
still in this, in that realm.
Like I've had featured background and
that where it's just me and like, you
know, two of the main cast are in a
scene And then, uh, kind of in that area.
I'm still Crawling up from the extra.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
In that scenario, like, is that the
kind of thing where if you get a job
where it's like you're in a scene with
some of the principals or something,
are you more likely to get that kind
of work later because you've, you
know, maybe been a little more featured
or, you know, seen a little closer?
Is that how that works?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah,
it, I mean, it varies.
For, for me, like, jobs that I've worked
on, so then, You know, I've worked with
some of the production team, then, like,
you know, they remember me, and they'll
be like, "Oh, hey, know, you're cool.
I can put you in this scene, and
you're gonna be okay, right?"
And then, you know,
they'll, like, move me over.
And then just that, you know,
people have, like, I've worked with
them, and I'm like, "Yeah, I don't,
I'm, I'm not gonna be a problem."
Like, that's, like, the
first, that's the first level.
Once you re- y- people realize you're
not gonna be a problem and that you
c- you know, you're gonna keep the
ball moving, you're not gonna trip
over cables, you're not gonna knock
over lights or, you know, be acting
weird, which is, you know, surprising
that that is kind of a base level.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
so it sounds like, uh, you mentioned
that other people that you met early
on were sort of like telling you where
to sign up for work and that different
production staff that recognize you or
have worked with you before kind of,
you know, helping you out a little.
W- what have you found, or, or have you
found someone to be especially helpful?
Um, like I'm thinking specifically like
when I got into the music business,
there were a few people who were really
generous with their time and expertise,
and that really helped me out a lot.
Have you made any connections like that?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, I mean,
just in the, in the network of
people on set, like, it's weird.
There's some people that I've seen
and, you know, help me out a lot,
and then I've never seen them again.
So they're almost like these ghosts
that came through and, likeâ¦
but there's a lot of things where it's
like you just see the same people over and
over again, and they'll, like, give you,
you know, whatever new insights they have.
You catch up, and you're kinda
like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, this new
place, you know, there's this new
casting director that has some work.
You know, hit them up
and sign up with them."
Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.
Are there places where you, like,
hang out with other actors out,
aside from the, you know, the
location, the, the filming location?
Like, do you go to actor bars?
Are there actor bars?
Does that exist?
Matthew Wortz: I-- Not so-- There may be.
Like, I don't-- I'm so much
more of a homebody now.
Like, feel like I did my
time in the going out.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah
Matthew Wortz: I had a good run, so now
it's like, uh, you know, I like being on
the couch and hanging out with cats and my
wife and having that when I'm not on set.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
What have you found especially
challenging and what have you found
maybe surprisingly successful?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, I guess there's
always, like, new things to navigate.
Like, you get to different points.
It's kind of likeâ¦
climbing up this mountain.
I can see the summit's
still, like, way, way off.
And, but then it's like how to, you
know, getting to that next little plateau
where I feel like I have a footing.
Yeah, I see there's, like,
s- you know, a, a lot to go.
But yeah, some of it is how
you get to that next plateau.
And like a lot of it right now,
there's like s- so self-tapes is how
you audition now more than in person.
So you just kinda get script and then
you, you know, you just on your own
film it, like set up a camera, have a
reader, and then you film it against a
blank wall or a backdrop or something.
Like, I feel like I do better in a
room than when I'm just having, you
know, if I'm like have my wife read
something and then I'm just in this v-
you know, matrix space of a white wall
Timothy Iseler: Mhm
Matthew Wortz: trying to perform
this where it's like, okay, you know,
you're smoking a cigar and packing a
suitcase and then a bird swoops down.
And it's like but don't
really mime stuff too much.
But also, like, yeah, do,
you know, make it believable.
And it's sometimes that I'm like,
ugh, this is harder than Like
if you're in a room, somehow the
energy is different too then.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I've definitely like, well, this is
in my business, but it's in every
business where, like, the most popular
kind of marketing is the, like, direct
into your phone video that you post
right up to your socials, you know?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah
Timothy Iseler: and I've found
that I hate that so much.
I hate when it's just me talking to
my phone and pretending like, you
know, this stuff is just ⦠You know,
like, "I just had this great idea."
Like, I hate that kind of stuff.
But I find talking to people to be
really, really easy, including, like,
these one-on-one conversations, but
also talking in front of groups.
Like, that's totally comfortable
to me in a way that me by myself
with my phone, I just hate it.
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's the same too, like, on,
if I'm on, on a set, it's like it feelsâ¦
I mean, even though, like, the camera's
there and the crew and everything
else, like, somehow it's easier
for me to filter that part out and
focus on, you know, what's happening
in a very s- you know, set area.
Like, even though there might
be, like, a giant light two
feet away from me, it's easier.
Or then, yeah, there's other where it's
like, if I'm having my wife read and
then having, you know, like, "Oh, I
hate you," whatever, like at the scenes
like I have to yell at her and then
it's like harder to get there than if
it was Just in a n- different space.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So you've been a musician for
years and played in bands.
Do you think that experience of
performing has helped you, uh,
like being on set as an actor?
Because there is some part of
performing as a musician where
you're totally aware of, you know,
the lights and the equipment and the
audience, but at the same time you're
also locking into what you're doing.
You know, if you're, if you're not
present in that, you can totally get lost.
Do you think that's helped you at all?
Matthew Wortz: No, I, I mean, I
think there's that part for sure.
Because I think that, you know, there's
something with musicians where, like,
if you're just in a space and you're
playing, it's like I'm connecting
to what you're playing in a way.
Like if, if you're
writing music with people.
I feel like that part is 100%, like,
you know, the same feeling in acting,
where I'm, I'm in this room, like
we're, you know, doing something,
but I'm also, like, engaged with what
you're doing and how you're doing it.
And then I'm responding to that and
changing, like, how I'm doing something
or why I'm, you know, why I'm . Something
how or, you know, in the moment.
Like experi- trying to
really feel that moment.
It's, a lot like just, you
know, being in a re- a practice
space, like writing music.
Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.
Was there any, or were there any
financial habits that, when you were
working more conventional jobs, that
have helped you as you moved into this
less conventional, less structured job?
Or, or anything that you did that just
made it possible for you to do this?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
Well, I mean, 100%, my wife has made it
possible for me to try this out because,
yeah, it is, uh, it's still a, you know,
a tough slog getting through it and, uh,
managing our finances as things keep going
up in price and everything with that.
But I think the biggestâ¦
You know, for me, like, I was laid off in
2008, and at that time I was just kinda
like, know, "Ah, you know, whatever.
I'll get a new job.
Like, I'm not worried about it."
And I didn't change anything with my life.
you know, I was like, suddenly,
like, after a while it was like,
"Oh, wait, no, there are no jobs."
Timothy Iseler: Yeah
Matthew Wortz: like, I, I
gotta, like, buckle up now.
And it was like having lived through
that then when I got laid off, now
it was like we just immediately
were like, okay, went into shutdown
mode of like what is our budget?
Let's look at everything and refocus
our whole life around, you know,
what's, what's our output, what's
our input, how do we make that fit?
And, you know, it was like we don't do
some of these things as much anymore, but,
you know, finding the thing-- finding more
value in the things that we still can do
Timothy Iseler: Hmm.
Yeah.
What's one of those things that you
stopped doing that maybe you were
surprised that you don't really miss it?
Matthew Wortz: I mean, a lot of it was,
like, just being, you know, signed up
for every streaming service basically.
Timothy Iseler: Aha
Matthew Wortz: What else?
we don't, you know, not
going out to eat as much.
But I feel like our cooking has gotten a,
a lot better and actually every time we do
go out we're kinda like, "Man, I, I like
our cook- you know, we like our cooking
now better than a lot of the things."
You know, we've been trying to go
hiking more and do things like that.
So there's like you can take the
commuter train just out of the city
and there's like trails you can
connect to that are just a, like a
mile or so walk from a train station.
And, you know, it's like a beautiful
walk and varying degrees of difficulty.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Was that something you would
have done before, or is that
like a totally new thing?
Matthew Wortz: Like a newer thing
we've done since where, you know,
just as a thing, like what is a,
something we can do that's you know,
minimal expense that we would enjoy.
And then that's something we've
learned that it's like, wow,
we really enjoy this a lot.
Like, it's nice to get out of the city.
It's nice to be in more nature.
You kinda get more s- like, moments
of, like, isolation where, you know,
there's not a million people just right
around you like it is on the subway.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
So you mentioned a minute ago that, when
you lost your last job, that right away
you knew that you needed to, to change
some things, and you mentioned how you
and your wife kinda did a deep dive on
the money coming in, the money going out,
and your budget, and things like that.
So it sounds like you already had
some pretty good money habits.
Is there anything that you wish you
had done differently before that
transition was kind of forced on you?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, I mean, I
think we had been a little like
maybe overly conservative in how
we were saving versus investing.
Like, we've kind of corrected a little
more, but then we were like, more focused
on the saving and having immediate cash on
hand in case we needed it instead of like
putting that money back to work for us.
Timothy Iseler: Mhm
Matthew Wortz: and, you know,
trying to like invest in things
to, uh, still be growing money
while we were in lockdown mode.
Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.
D- when you say that, do you mean
that when, when that lockdown mode
happened, at that point you were
too focused on, on saving or before
that you were too focused on saving?
Matthew Wortz: yeah,
even leading up to it,
Timothy Iseler: Uh-huh.
Cause it w- it would seem like in that
situation, like having a lot of extra
cash saved up would be like amazing.
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
I mean, it was, but, uh, you know, it
was just kind of like, "Oh, man, we
could have been doing more with it."
Like, also, you know, it was like
Priorities change and like at the, you
know, we were like, "Okay, let's be s-
just sta- stashing this on hand in case,
you know, something else opened up."
Like maybe we look at buying
a house or property or
Timothy Iseler: Aha
Matthew Wortz: upstate,
you know, out of the city.
we were kind of like, you know,
keeping that like as a, maybe this
is how we wanna do this for now.
And then it was like, all right,
maybe this, that's not gonna happen.
Timothy Iseler: Hmm
Matthew Wortz: But I think we
could have you know, done more
with what we had at that time
Timothy Iseler: mhm
Matthew Wortz: instead of just like,
you know, having it in a low interest
. Account or something like that.
Like where we could still
grab it if we needed to.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
How are you primarily doing
your investing these days?
Is it, like, mostly within
retirement accounts or outside
of retirement accounts?
What does that look like?
Matthew Wortz: yeah, mostly retirement.
Like I had 401ks at my job, so
I had a lot-- a couple of those
and then consolidated all those,
and then try and do the IRAs.
what's like the, the Roth
one that you do every year.
Is that right?
Timothy Iseler: Well, Roth is one
of the types you can do every year.
but then the, the other kind is called
traditional, and that's the one where
you get the tax break up front, but
then you have to pay taxes later.
And with the Roth, you don't get any
tax break now, but then all of the
money comes out tax-free in retirement.
So it's sort of, sort of like trading
when do you pay taxes on that money?
So in terms of, uh, putting more of it
to work for you, are you thinking of that
in terms of just putting more dollars
into investing, or is that like changing
the types of investments that you own?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, it was more
like changing the types of it.
Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.
What's one habit related to money
that you think you do really well?
Matthew Wortz: Like, I think we're
both pretty good at Being good
about spending and being frugal.
Like, maybe that's another thing too
where it's like sometimes we're maybe
too, too conservative and too cautious
where it's like, you know, we're like,
"Oh, maybe we can take a vacation."
And then Sometimes it's like,
"Oh, well, let's hold off
on that one just in case and
Timothy Iseler: Yeah
Matthew Wortz: do something smaller."
Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.
So, you mentioned how you had to
cut back a lot and how you're just,
both of you can be very frugal.
What's something you spend money on
that you think is totally worth it?
Matthew Wortz: Um, yeah, good
shoes are always worth it.
Timothy Iseler: Hmm
Matthew Wortz: I mean, yeah, going out
for a good meal is alway- is nice too.
Timothy Iseler: Mhm
Matthew Wortz: Like, we're in New York,
so there's, like, really good restaurants,
and for the most part they're worth it.
Like,
Timothy Iseler: Yeah
I, I really appreciate when I go out,
um, getting things that either I just
don't make at home or that are, like,
extremely difficult to make at home.
You know, like, I think I make
really good pizza, but it takes
me kinda, like, all day to
Matthew Wortz: Yeah
Timothy Iseler: good pizza.
So, you know, sometimes
it's nice to go out.
If you could, uh, wave a wand and
magically change one part of your
financial life, what would it be?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, I mean, I would
like to get to the next couple levels
up of where I am, if I could do that.
And then be nice to have more income from
this, uh, stage in my life and this pivot.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
When you think about those, those
next plateaus or like the next few
that, that seem like they're within
reach, is there a point where you
think, like, that would be all I need?
Like, like say for example, you
were just making enough money and
you were like, "This is fine."
Or is it sort of like, do you
think you would continue in your
aspiration to wanna keep moving
up to the next level all the time?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
That's, uh-- I guess it would depend on,
you know, I do like the challenge of it,
and I do like the experience, like being
on set and be given new challenges is--
Like, there are days where it's like
sixteen hours on set, and I feel like it--
like I'm running home, and I'm excited,
Timothy Iseler: Hmm
Matthew Wortz: and I have all this energy.
But yeah, there's other
days where it's a, a grind.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah
Matthew Wortz: But, you know, if--
like chasing those challenges is
fun and get-- having more of those
would, I think, be my primary goal.
Like once-- I was financially
stable from the-- from it, then
that would be, what are the new
challenges I could work towards?
Or, you know, if there was some
interesting thing, like get to play
something interesting over and over
again, that would be fun challenge.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
You don't have to name a
number, but is thereâ¦
Do you have a, a sense of, like, how
close you are to getting to the point
where you're like, "Okay, I'm making
enough at this," you know, where you
feel good about it and don't feel like
you're maybe, like, a little bit behind
or not making enough or whatever?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, I mean, I'm
hoping that next year will be.
So you know, kind of if my current
trajectory- holds, then next year may
be starting to feel more comfortable
and then, you know, can go from there.
Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I definitely, experienced
something like that changing careers to
start this business where, like, Iâ¦
Well, I did it right before the pandemic
so that the first two years I was just
like, I didn't know how it was ever
gonna work out, but I found it nice
to have a, a pretty clear idea of,
like, when I would feel like, you know,
I'm in a comfortable spot, you know?
And, and I felt, I felt this way and I
still feel this way that I don't wanna
keep raising the, the bar and being like,
"Oh, if only it was 10% more," you know?
But
Matthew Wortz: Yeah,
Timothy Iseler: really feeling
like, like, "No, no, this isâ¦
I'm in a comfortable spot.
This is working."
You know?
I can like, you know, don't
have to always be in go mode.
I feel like I'm there now, but w- when
I was kind of like getting to this
point, I found it really nice toâ¦
or just take comfort in it, like,
it's like I don't need to, you know,
I don't need to reach the top, I
just need to get to this level.
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
Well, even like where I am now, like
when it, when it started and I was
just like, "All right, let me try
and let me see if I can do this,"
like, after the first, you know,
the first one and then I was like,
"Well, let me see if I can get more."
And then started getting more and it
was like I would, you know, do anything.
So it was like doing overnight shoots.
Like, I did a ser- like a whole
week of overnight shoots that
were torture but also so much fun.
And like, I felt like I went through a war
with the people that I was with and, you
know, made some good connections there.
And you know, it was one of those things
where it was like at the end of it
you're just like, "Oh, wow, this-- that
was excite- you know, that was great."
But then, yeah, now it's more
like, okay, being more picky
Timothy Iseler: Hmm
Matthew Wortz: and I'm not just
taking every single thing that comes
my way and like, all right, maybe,
maybe I don't wanna, like, beâ¦
I- it's a winter scene where
they're pretending it's summer,
so you have to wear shorts, and
there's also gonna be water towers
because it needs to be raining.
So gonna be sprayed with in, like,
40-degree temperature and shorts.
Like, I, I don't think I wanna do that.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
how much of that is based on the money and
how much of that is based on other things?
Like you said, you know, are you gonna be
uncomfortable all day long or, you know,
maybe, maybe it opens the door t- for
you to work on something exciting or work
with someone that you're excited about.
Like, how are you making those decisions?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, a lot of it is, you
know, if, if it's something I'm interested
in, I, you know, that's, I'll like,
"Okay, let me be in the rain tower just
to like work with, work on this project."
Is, you know, I still
would do that likeâ¦
I don't know, 'cause sometimes
they're just, it's a cool experience.
So if I have a sense that it's like
someone I'd wanna, you know, a set
that I'd wanna work on or I'd wanna
work with, then, uh, take those.
But yeah, I mean, there's also like,
you know, the background, the, uh,
extras network people are like, "Oh,
yeah, I worked on this and it was
amazing," or, "It was not a good
experience," and this and that.
So you kinda get a feel for different
productions and how it will go just based
on, you know, talking to other people.
And then you, you know, if something
comes up, you kinda gauge it that way.
Timothy Iseler: Mm-hmm.
What do you think most people
outside of the, you know, film and
television industry get wrong when
they think about being an actor?
Matthew Wortz: Uh, I mean, it'sâ¦
The hours are really long, and I
mean, it can be like a very demanding
to, like, go through, you know,
what sometimes what you need to go
through to just even get a smallâ¦
Like, there's things where it's like like
I've been in things where it was like
a three-day shoot, and then it's like
maybe not even five minutes in a movie.
And you're just like, wow, like we spent,
you know, all these days and like all
these people working for this just tiny
thing in this movie that's like, You
know, probably no one would even think
about the scene Like, you know, it adds to
the tone and adds to the, the narrative,
but you don't always think about like
how much effort goes into just making
this tiny little section of a movie.
Timothy Iseler: Mhm
Matthew Wortz: And then, you know, then
you compound that to like two hours.
Timothy Iseler: How do people find you?
Or do they find you?
Are you always sort of, like, putting
your name in and auditioning or, or
does anyone ever reach out and say, you
know, "We need people for this show up?"
Like
Matthew Wortz: So the different
casting places have different,
you know, they, they, they have
different ways that they work.
So there's some that it's like
they just reach out to me and
say, "Hey, are you availâ¦"
Like, I have my profile with them,
and then, you know, I'm in contact.
I just update things as I need to.
But then they'll reach out and say,
"hey, are you available for this part?"
And then I say yes or no, and then
it, you know, moves from there.
And then there's others where it's like
there are jobs posted, and then I have to
submit to them, and then, you know, it's
either if it's like a extra role, they'll
just say, "Okay, we want you," or not.
Or then it would be like,
"Okay, here's the next.
Can, you know, we'd like
you do a self-tape."
And then it would be like, okay,
now I do a self-tape, submit that,
and then, then they, you know,
decide if they want me from that.
Timothy Iseler: are you at a
level where you have any kind of
exclusivity in terms of, like,
casting people or anything like that?
Or is it just kind of like you put
your name in, you put your whatever,
and wait for them to call you?
Or is there a situationâ¦
Matthew Wortz: it's still pretty muchâ¦
so like I've, you know, been on
things where it's like, "Okay, you
are now this person, and like every
time we need this person, it will
be you, and we'll come back and,
you know, get you again," you know?
So there's like those, Yeah, then
the rest are just kind of okay,
today you're rockabilly guy.
And then, oh, you know,
not a named person.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
Has there been anything, um, so
far where you've been, you've been
especially excited to get a named role?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
Well, I mean, there's
things in the can still.
So
Timothy Iseler: Oh, okay
Matthew Wortz: that's weird that's likeâ¦
So, like, there's, you know, a couple
episodes of Lethally Blonde that I'm
in, and those were filmed two years ago.
Timothy Iseler: Oh wow
Matthew Wortz: it's just weird like that.
Some things take a long time.
There's other things that, you know,
so like the network television shows
have, like, a quicker turnaround.
So once those start going, like,
I may be, you know, on a, on a
shoot and then, like, just a couple
weeks later, that episode will air
Timothy Iseler: I didn't realize
they could turn around that fast.
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, a lot
of the mainline network ones,
they really churn 'em out fast.
Like, it, it's a machine.
But those are always, those are nice
to work on 'cause they, like, very,
like, we're coming in, this is a scene,
boom, boom, boom, boom, and we're done.
Go home.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah
Matthew Wortz: But then there's other
stuff, like, I was on, like, a comedy
movie where they're filming and then
it's like, "Hey, why don't you try this?"
And then, you know, it's like hours
of, "Hey, why don't you try this?
Why
Timothy Iseler: Aha
Matthew Wortz: this?"
And it's like, I still enjoy that.
Like, I think it's fun to
see how the sausage is made.
But yeah, I know, like, then
being stuck with other people and
I'm com- you know, like, oh, why
did they do 50 takes for that?
And I'm like, yeah, a it's a grind, but
you kinda have to be, you know that that's
what it is, and then it's not so bad.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
Yeah, So Matt, I end every conversation
with a question from my guest, and
here's what you wrote: "One of the next
steps in my journey would be to create
a loan-out company for my acting work.
What advice would you give to someone
who's had a lifetime of 9:00 to 5:00
jobs working for other people looking
into creating and managing a self-run
small business for the first time?"
And I actually was not familiar
with that term loan-out company,
so can you explain what that means?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
So it, basically it's like
a name, image, likeness type
corporation you would set up.
So the company would own my name,
image, likeness, and talents.
And then whenever I got a job,
uh, they would pay the company
lease, like loan out my talents or
my na- name, image, and likeness.
So then, yeah, the money
goes to the company
Timothy Iseler: Right,
rather than to you directly
Matthew Wortz: to me personally.
And then it, like, sets up a, you
know, a shield, too, if I need it
that I can protect myself and my, uh,
you know, home finances and all that.
Shield that if someone
wa- you know, wanted toâ¦
They didn't like what I did orâ¦
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
Matthew Wortz: that I'm gonna do
anything bad, but just thatâ¦
Timothy Iseler: if your
performance was so outrageous.
Yeah.
So the thing you're describing, I
hadn't heard that term before, but
I'm definitely familiar with that.
It's essentially, like, the thing that
everyone goes through who has been
freelancing and then decides to start
their own business, and instead of hiring
Matt the person, now they're hiring,
you know, Matt Wortz LLC, the business.
And, like you mentioned, the reason you
would do that type of a thing, like an
LLC, is to create a, a break between
your personal assets and your personal
liabilities, and you the professional
business assets and liabilities.
What it doesn't do is change
anything about your taxes.
So a one-person LLC gets taxed
exactly the same way as a sole
proprietor or a freelancer.
It's the same, exact same tax impact.
So that's one thing that I think a
lot of people get confused about.
I think there-- I think
it's a great thing to do.
I honestly think anybody who's a
freelancer where there's really even
any chance that you might get sued for
anything, or I guess in your situation
it might be that your work gets used
for something and you're not compensated
in the way that it was agreed to and so
you need to whatever, hire a lawyer or
whatever like that, like it's really,
really good to just make that legal
separation so that if you get sued or
if you need to sue someone, that your
personal assets are, are different.
when it comes to running a business
for the first time, I have to say that
I was honestly like pretty surprised
when I started running my business of
how different it was from just being
like a freelancer, which I had done in
some capacity f- you know, now like,
you know, more than twenty-five years.
It's, it's a much different thing and
you have to think about it differently
because, you know, you do have to
think almost like two sets of financial
decisions where there's like, you know,
your budget at home and, you know,
whatever, all of those decisions, you kind
of have to make all the same decisions
on the other side of the equation too.
So one thing I would suggest for everyone
who's in that situation is spend a lot
of time figuring out what your business
expenses are, because when you, when
you've had like a nine-to-five job
with a W2, it's like your take-home pay
is just your take-home pay, and taxes
are already taken out, if you have
like a 401k, that's already taken out.
So when you get your check,
that money's all your money.
Whereas when you're the business owner,
there's the revenue that comes in, but
then all the expenses have to be taken out
of that before you get the money, right?
So getting really clear
on what are your expenses.
Um, with a business like
yours, it should beâ¦
your, your expenses should be pretty lean
because I wouldn't imagine you need, you
know, a lot of ongoing, uh, whatever.
You don't necessarily need
a, a secretary or something.
You don't necessarily need a lot
of equipment, so that your business
expenses should be pretty lean.
But paying attention to that.
And then thinking about your business
in the same terms you'd think about
yourself, where it's like, let's--
I'm just gonna make this up, like,
let's say your business needs to
spend on average $1,000 a month, that
probably means that you should keep
in a dedicated business account, like
several months' worth of expenses.
So maybe three thousand,
maybe six thousand.
And so it's not just as simple as like,
"I got paid this much for this job,
it all goes straight into my pocket."
Like, you have to kind of
think about the business as if
it's its own set of financial
challenges, which it is, for sure.
And then also paying attention to taxes
because like I said, when you have a
W-2 job, the taxes are just kind ofâ¦
they come out with every paycheck.
Uh, whereas when you work for
yourself, you have to really be paying
attention to that in an ongoing way.
technically you should be
filing quarterly estimated
Matthew Wortz: Mhm
Timothy Iseler: payments.
The penalty if you don't do that is
not super high, but it, you know, just
generally speaking, like you need to
pay attention to that stuff more than
you do when you have a conventional job.
And I would say that when you work
for yourself, you just need like a
much bigger cash cushion than you
would otherwise because there's
so much more that's unpredictable.
So like I said a minute ago, you might
need to leave a fair amount of money
in a business account just, just as a
safety measure, but then you also have
to do the same thing for your personal
Matthew Wortz: Mhm.
Timothy Iseler: stuff.
So like, you know, if you go a month
with no jobs, like the business is
okay, and then you the person are okay.
Does all that make sense?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
you know, as far as like expenses,
it's like where I'm at now, like I am
providing a lot of my own wardrobe,
so like there's those, there's like,
you know, getting to and from set,
you know, and other things like that.
But it's not like there's a, a heavy
like overhead where, you know, I'm notâ¦
I'm trying to do all my self-tapes
here, so it's not like I have
to rent out a studio space for
that and expenses like that.
And it wouldn't be like I'm going,
you know, I wouldn't necessarily
need an office at this point.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
I, I would really love to
have an office for myself.
I work, uh, in a spare bedroom
in our house, and that's super
convenient, and it's made it very
affordable for me to have my business.
But that's something I would
love just 'cause I s- end up
spending so much time at home.
But there are certain things that I
just have to pay for in an ongoing
ongoing basis for my business.
But what I've noticed is that
those expenses more or less just
go up with the rate of inflation.
So they go up a little bit every
year, but they don't go up radically.
Matthew Wortz: Mhm
Timothy Iseler: keeping track of that
over a series of years has been really
nice for me because then it's helped
me see how like, how my income has
been outpacing my expenses, you know?
And that, like I mentioned earlier about
having this idea of like what's the
next level of the plateau and whatever,
Matthew Wortz: Mhm
Timothy Iseler: that I also found
really encouraging is tracking my
expenses, tracking my income, and
then tracking the profit to see like
are they all trending the way I want.
So my expenses go up a little bit, but
my income has been going up faster.
So that's,
Matthew Wortz: Mhm
Timothy Iseler: that can be really
helpful when you're just getting
started and, and you're sort of like,
"I don't know if this is gonna work," or
whatever, to sort of see those trends.
And I know e- not everybody loves
making spreadsheets and stuff, but
I made a spreadsheet spreadsheet
myself, and then I made a graph that
matched it, and I found that the
graph was the thing that reallyâ¦
And it still, it gives me a lot of comfort
to look at that and be like, "Okay, it's
still moving the right direction," you
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
So
Matthew Wortz: I've been good,
you know, tracking everything
on, on my spreadsheets.
Yeah, there's like also some of the,
uh, the sites like to submit to jobs,
there's different sites where it's
like you pay, so like you- there's
like a annual or you could pay monthly,
and it would be like those would
be expenses then that could be, you
know, built into the company instead
of they're just like out of pocket.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
at the end of the day, it ends up being
the same amount of money that you spend.
It's just you're, you're accounting
for it in a different way.
And I kinda find that that extra step
of accounting, like in one sense it is
a little bit of a pain, but in another
sense it gives you a lot of clarity about
what's actually happening, which you
don't see as much when your personal and
your business are like really commingled.
Matthew Wortz: Yeah, 'cause you
know, I have done freelance in the
past but never to that point where,
you know, I had any, like, small
business or anything like that.
It was just kinda like,
"Hey, write me a check, guy."
Like,
Timothy Iseler: Yeah
Matthew Wortz: just whatever, likeâ¦
Timothy Iseler: yeah, yeah.
Have you started that process
of setting up your own company?
Matthew Wortz: Um, not yet.
I've been, you know,
looking into it a little.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah
Matthew Wortz: debating if it's something
that I wanna have set up for next year
or, like, maybe wait one more year.
Timothy Iseler: Mhm
Matthew Wortz: like, still doing
that, like, calculation in my
head if it would make sense to,
like, have it in place maybe too
early or take it down another year
Timothy Iseler: Hmm.
Matthew Wortz: of, like, yeah, okay,
I am, like, on s- more solid footing.
This is what I'm doing, and here we go.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah, yeah.
Okay, I understand that perspective.
in terms of the expense or the
administrative burden, it's
not very hard to set up an LLC.
you have to do what's called articles of
organization that you submit to the state,
and, you know, I wouldn't expect that they
would reject you, and then basically every
year you just pay a fee to the state.
so you might just wanna wait until January
so that you don't pay one now and then
have to pay again January, you know?
But, you know, if you set it up
and you don't end up needing it,
like it d- it's not that much extra
work and not that much extra money.
Matthew Wortz: Mhm
Timothy Iseler: but I, I totally
take your meaning, like, if it seems
like it's still working and it seems
like something that's gonna be, you
know, a career for a long time, then,
then that makes sense, and ifâ¦
whatever.
If next year's a bad year and you decide,
whatever, decide you're done with it,
then, then that's a different decision.
Matthew Wortz: if I, it's like is
it a 2027 thing or a 2028 right now?
Timothy Iseler: Aha
Matthew Wortz: math I'm going through.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
Yeah.
And I would expect that probably
there's not a lot of liability
that you're opening yourself up to
with the kind of work you're doing.
But I mean, I could imagine
a situation where, you know,
whatever, you could get sued.
Matthew Wortz: um,
Timothy Iseler: Since you're
not tripping over those c-
Matthew Wortz: theâ¦
Yeah.
Timothy Iseler: you're not tripping
over cables and stuff, soâ¦
Matthew Wortz: yeah.
Yeah, that's, it's not, I'm
not, that part isn't, uh, you
know, the bigger worry for me.
It's more like, yeah, just try
and like Have it all in one spot.
'Cause it's also, yeah,
I'm getting, you know, with
everything that I'm signed up for.
So then it's like every production
company is cutting me a check and then,
like, having-- when I do taxes it's
like, you know, all these, like, W-2s
from, like, a million places or a 1099.
You know, it's all in these different
formats and then having to like sort
that all out to then like do a joint
file like reconcile everything together.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah
Matthew Wortz: like it'd be
maybe nicer to keep it siloed.
And then I can like worry about this whole
thing in this area and then like have one
number that then I have to like when, you
know, doing personal finances it's like,
okay, here's one thing and that's it.
And then now we're done with that.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
I mentioned earlier how, um, when
you work for yourself, it shifts
the tax burden to you and you have
to track it throughout the year.
That's one thing that is both a burden
and also, I think, kind of helps, is when
you have a business and it forces you
to kind of consolidate everything or si-
or silo it like that, you do have to,
as an LLC, you do have to submit a tax
filing, but you don't pay taxes as an LLC.
so that is a little bit of extra
work, but it also means that, it--
basically by January, you already know
Matthew Wortz: Mhm
Timothy Iseler: personal tax
filing is gonna look like in April.
So,
Matthew Wortz: Yeah
Timothy Iseler: I ha- I haven't
found it to be a super burden.
it is something though, if it's something
you're not good at or you don't like,
like it might be a reason to hire a CPA
to just file your business taxes for you.
Even if you do your personal
taxes yourself, like it, it
could be nice to have a CPA do
that business filing for you.
Matthew Wortz: Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I mean, that would be good.
It's just, yeah, like now it's, you
know, I have a stack of just all these
pay stubs from a million different
places and it's like, okay, if I
was doing it quarterly then Iâ¦
You know, it's not like
Timothy Iseler: Yeah
Matthew Wortz: this mountain just
grows and grows and grows and grows
and then, okay, here comes, you
know, 2027, I have to file the taxes.
And now it's like, all right, let me
just start, you know, going through
all of this and making sense of
it to put it into this one form to
make it work with personal taxes.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
you feel good about this?
Matthew Wortz: Yeah
Timothy Iseler: Awesome.
Well, thanks so much, Matt.
I really appreciate it.
Matthew Wortz: Yeah.
Take care.
Timothy Iseler: Yeah, Thanks, buddy.
Bye
Matthew Wortz: you
Timothy Iseler: Thank you to Matthew
Wortz for speaking with me today.
I know firsthand how difficult it
is to make a big career pivot and
start over from scratch, And I'm
really happy for Matt and proud of
the success that he's had so far.
One part of our conversation that I really
appreciated is his combination of trying
something totally new without having any
idea if it could even work out, and the
financial discipline he learned during
previous layoffs or economic downturns.
You don't often see that mix of
optimism and pragmatism when somebody
pursues a career in the arts.
And even though his question about
setting up a loan-out company was one
that I hadn't heard before, it speaks
to the broader topic of making the
shift from employee to self-employed
for the first time, which I know
a lot of people can relate to.
So thank you again to actor and
SAG-AFTRA member Matthew Wortz.
That's it for today.
Next week, I want to talk about an
issue that sounds like a great problem
to have from the outside, but actually
causes people a lot of stress when it
happens to them: what should you do when
you have more money than ever before?
It can be nice to daydream about all
the great stuff you'd do if you had
more money, but it's surprisingly
difficult to know what the right
decisions are once it actually happens.
Whether that's money in a bank account
that you know you should be putting to
better use but don't know where to start,
or something like receiving an inheritance
and wanting to make sure that you use
it wisely so that it sets you up for a
better future, understanding how to think
about having more money than ever before
is a surprisingly complicated topic.
I will see you back here next week.
The Thing We Never Talk
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