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In this episode of Unscripted Pivots, Danielle sits down with communication expert and founder of KO Communications, Kristy Olinger. With over 20 years of experience in banking and a thriving consulting business, Kristy shares her journey from the corporate world to coaching professionals on mastering workplace communication. She emphasizes that communication is a skill that can be learned and continually refined, while also highlighting the importance of nonverbal communication in enhancing workplace interactions.
The conversation delves into Kristy's popular TikTok platform, where she offers real-time, actionable communication tips to her 75,000 followers, and the success of her workshops. Kristy also discusses the power of journaling as a reflective tool for improving communication skills. Through her website, she provides free journal prompts to help professionals track and organize their meeting experiences, enabling them to recognize patterns of behavior. She has also created a workplace journal, available on Amazon, designed to help career professionals effectively document and assess their communication efforts.
In addition, Kristy co-hosts the popular podcast The Opposite of Small Talk with Danielle McCombs, where they explore personal and professional growth, encouraging listeners to embrace meaningful conversations. The podcast will celebrate its five-year anniversary this October.
Guest Kristy Olinger
The conversation delves into Kristy's popular TikTok platform, where she offers real-time, actionable communication tips to her 75,000 followers, and the success of her workshops. Kristy also discusses the power of journaling as a reflective tool for improving communication skills. Through her website, she provides free journal prompts to help professionals track and organize their meeting experiences, enabling them to recognize patterns of behavior. She has also created a workplace journal, available on Amazon, designed to help career professionals effectively document and assess their communication efforts.
In addition, Kristy co-hosts the popular podcast The Opposite of Small Talk with Danielle McCombs, where they explore personal and professional growth, encouraging listeners to embrace meaningful conversations. The podcast will celebrate its five-year anniversary this October.
Guest Kristy Olinger
Work with Kristy: You can work with Kristy one-on-one or hire her to speak with your team to improve workplace communication.
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What is Unscripted Pivots: Inspiring Stories from WTF [Women That Flourish]?
If you’re looking to find connectivity in the female experience, you’ve found the right podcast. Unscripted Pivots (UP) takes a deep dive into how women can masterfully chart their lives only to end up in the most unexpected places. "Life is what happens while we are busy making other plans" and the most unpredictable detours, our “WTF” experiences, can shape us in ways we never dreamed possible. My podcast invites women to redefine “WTF”, calling them “Women That Flourish” moments instead. I’m your host, Danielle Sprouls, aka "The WTF* Lady", and my mission is to bring you weekly interviews with inspiring stories of women empowerment, identity loss, entrepreneurship, leadership, mental health, and more. We’re here to celebrate a woman's adaptability, resilience, and perseverance. No matter our unexpected detours, we can always move UP.
Danielle Sprouls (00:02.082)
Today on Unscripted Pivots, we have an absolute powerhouse joining us. Kristy Olinger the founder of KO Communication, is here to share her expertise on one of the most critical skills for career success, effective communication. With over 20 years of experience in banking, Kristy has become a go -to expert for mid -career professionals who want to communicate with clarity and confidence in the workplace. Her innovative test and learn approach offers not just theory,
but actionable strategies and flexible frameworks that can be applied in real time at work. Whether it's through individual consulting, team skill building sessions, or her impactful workplace communication workshops, is all about helping professionals find more ease, success, and genuine enjoyment in their careers. But that's not all. Kristy is also the co -host of The Opposite of Small Talk, an inspiring podcast about personal and professional growth
which she co -hosts with her longtime friend, Danielle McCombs, who by the way, is how I had the pleasure of first meeting Kristy. I am beyond excited to dive into today's conversation. So without further ado, welcome to Unscripted Pivots, Kristy
Kristy Olinger (01:14.178)
Thank you, Danielle. I'm thrilled to be here.
Danielle Sprouls (01:17.28)
It's so cool because you may or may not remember this, but Danielle was really the impetus to me actually starting up podcasts. And she in fact was my very first guest. It wasn't the first episode that was released. I think it was number two or three, but she was the first one where I opened up this computer and looked at a microphone and said, hi. Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (01:36.93)
Well, and I remember you and I had a conversation maybe a little bit before you launched just to talk about the tech and how it all works. And it's so awesome to see you here today and to be able to be on the podcast with you.
Danielle Sprouls (01:45.753)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (01:51.55)
No, it's so fantastic. So tell us a little bit about your background, how you became into this full time from the banking industry, because that's obviously a pivot, right? And this whole show is about how women pivot throughout the course of their careers. So tell us a little bit how you actually went into that full time and did the deep dive.
Kristy Olinger (02:10.628)
Yeah, I've had a lot of pivots. So my story is that I've been in banking for over 20 years. And about 10 years into my career, I got into the first role where my success wasn't specifically based on how I performed, but it was based on how I could convince others to partner with me, people that I didn't directly manage. How can you create a meaningful
Danielle Sprouls (02:32.81)
Okay.
Kristy Olinger (02:39.134)
narrative around what you're trying to do that gets others on board so that you can deliver. And I think this is an experience that a lot of people have in their mid career, right? When you're earlier in your career, your success is just how hard you work, how well you can do the job that you're doing. But then you get into that mid level and your success is really that in addition to how can you influence others. And I really struggled with communication because it got way more complex.
Danielle Sprouls (02:49.098)
Mm -hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (02:56.844)
that mid -level and your success is really that in addition to how...
Kristy Olinger (03:08.004)
Like the work got more complex that I had a lot of different stakeholders. had to work with marketing and finance and all these different folks. And I struggled with it quite a, quite a bit. can remember being really frustrated and going 10 and 12 and 15 rounds, trying to get a deck prepared for a meeting.
Danielle Sprouls (03:11.682)
stakeholders I have to work with marketing and finance and artistic.
Danielle Sprouls (03:29.123)
I heard one national student on the in workshops on community campus.
Kristy Olinger (03:29.792)
I couldn't believe it because at that point in my life, I had already won a national speaking competition and I was teaching workshops on communication. Yet in my day job, I was really struggling. And what I found and what I did is what most people do is I learned on the job. I learned by getting coaching from my boss. I learned by watching the people around me to see what worked well for them and could I test it and see if it would work well for me.
Danielle Sprouls (03:46.337)
Mm
Danielle Sprouls (03:54.786)
take it to work well for me. so fast forward, okay, and I'm really passionate about
Kristy Olinger (03:56.482)
And so fast forward to today, and I'm really passionate about helping people leverage the work that they're already doing to learn what communication strategies are going to be successful for them. The thing about communication is that there's no one right way to communicate. There's a lot of best practices, there's tips and tricks, but it's very nuanced and context dependent. And so in order to be successful, you have to find the formula that works for you. And so I help people.
Danielle Sprouls (04:13.462)
Mm
Kristy Olinger (04:25.4)
by giving them the tips and tricks, but also by encouraging them to do that experimental test and learn on the job to figure out what is the thing that's going to feel right for me and bring me success. So that is the story. I do feel like a bit of a unicorn because I still work a full -time corporate job and I absolutely love it. But I have a business where I coach individuals one -on -one and I teach workshops and do team up -skilling programs on communication as well. So I'm kind of
Danielle Sprouls (04:32.905)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (04:55.246)
doing all of the things and the podcast on the side.
Danielle Sprouls (04:58.996)
And you're a mom to boot. mean, let's not forget the energy and time that goes into raising a family. So you're hitting it on all marks. I mean, I don't think it's even arguable that communication isn't at the crux of every relationship, whether it's professional or personal, right? Having good communication skills is really, really critical. You help mid -level professionals communicate better at work.
What do you find is the most challenging thing? Is there a consistent challenge that you see that just crops up across the board in companies at that career level that you're addressing more often than not?
Kristy Olinger (05:39.074)
Yeah, I think there's a big myth out there that some people are just born communicators, that it's a skill that is inherent in your DNA and you're just magically do it really well. But the reality is the people that you admire most at work that you see as polished and put together and able to respond to questions off the cuff, they are that way because they've practiced it. And so I think a lot of it is mindset.
Danielle Sprouls (06:02.572)
Practice it, yeah.
Kristy Olinger (06:08.152)
You feeling that you have the authority and positional power to speak up in a room. You know, these are kinds of things that you just are a little bit mindset based that people really need to get their heads around. Like quite frankly, when you start actually being in rooms with very senior leaders, and I know you're an executive coach, so you know this, like there are a ton of people that have no clue what they're doing. Like there's no need to stress out.
Danielle Sprouls (06:19.606)
Mm -hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (06:27.188)
in gaming rooms with various senior leaders and I know you're an executive curtsy.
Kristy Olinger (06:36.856)
voice what it is that you've got on your mind because you have value to add regardless of what level you're in. So I think that the thing, everyone can become a powerful communication, a powerful communicator, and you can do that through practice and exercises, and you don't have to be sort of naturally born as a communicator.
Danielle Sprouls (06:36.992)
Mm -hmm
Danielle Sprouls (06:58.07)
I love that you're sharing that because really at the heart of this whole podcast is, know, peeling back like, you know, the curtain and saying, see, you know, we can be, you can look at whoever's speaking on here and who wrote the book, who got the C -suite, you know, office and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, the journey there, you know, and it took a lot of hard work. We can't just look at people for what they are today. You know, authors will often say, yeah, look at my best seller. Well, you know what? I wrote five other books nobody knew about, you know, so.
Kristy Olinger (07:24.173)
Mm -hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (07:25.386)
It's so important to say that, you know, it takes time and attention. I mean, I think that maybe some people are born a little bit more epped because I've seen people that naturally, mean, I've seen four year olds like with really, you know, they get some verbal skills going and I'm like, okay, you're going to be in sales for sure. You know, and it is funny. Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (07:41.092)
Yeah, or they gravitate to it. So I think for me, I'm a person who I like to be the center of attention. I like to be on a stage. I like to be speaking. So I feel that I've had more at bats, which then made me better. But I think the point is that nothing makes me more angry. And Seth Rogen talks about this. Then when someone says, you're such a natural, it's like, no, no.
I am not a natural. This came from a lot of practice and intention of putting myself on stages and putting myself in front of people and tweaking different things. It's not natural, it's practice.
Danielle Sprouls (08:11.649)
Mm
Danielle Sprouls (08:20.67)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, and it takes a lot of hard work to look natural, for sure. So, you know, lot of hard work to make it seamless that way. So, you know what, I want to ask you, I'm going to, I'll tell you what I was just looking at last night, know, prep for this. This is what I love when I have guests on and I'm doing an interview because that's going to compel me to know a little bit more about you. So I start looking up some things and I was like, look at this and I've got to bring up TikTok.
Kristy Olinger (08:26.294)
Yes, yes, exactly.
Danielle Sprouls (08:46.114)
because I play on TikTok. I'm going say play. mean, like, know, in 2020, everybody's bored and it was the way we communicated. I first became acquainted with that platform because, you know, my daughter was living on the East Coast at the time and we would send like cat videos back and forth because she's obsessed with cats. And, you know, it was just like communication style. look how funny that is. And then you really get to see, I have some friends doing some serious work on TikTok. And when I looked you up on TikTok, I said, hold the phone. I was like, Kristy has.
Kristy Olinger (09:14.84)
Ha ha ha.
Danielle Sprouls (09:15.362)
Over 75 ,000 followers, okay? And it is like chock full of really meaningful information, valuable tips, one after the other after the other. And if I may bring up, you know, I said, what's Tango? What's Blinkless? What's this? And you also, you know, from what I can see, have these partnerships with companies that you really believe add value. So you want to share that information. You want to share these shortcuts, you know, and things that are available.
which I think is great. How did you become attracted to that platform? Because I wouldn't even say that it's a growing one. It has arrived, right? It has absolutely arrived. And it always tickles me when I see intelligent, successful people like yourself on there and you're not on there to do the silly dance, although, hey, that's okay too if you did it once or twice, but that you use it as a platform kind of like the more relaxed version of LinkedIn maybe. I think that we reach other people there and these are people that really want to know what it is you're doing.
Kristy Olinger (09:52.11)
Mmm.
Kristy Olinger (10:09.006)
Mm.
Danielle Sprouls (10:14.56)
So can you just like talk a little bit about that? I, I, was, it was a surprise like, you know, in a positive way. what you have on there is fantastic. So people look it up, TikTok under KO communication for sure. Yeah. Tell me about that.
Kristy Olinger (10:27.436)
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I'm like so thankful that you mentioned that because it's been a big surprise for me and it's actually really evolved my business strategy because what I found is that people crave these actionable tips that they can use tomorrow in their very next meeting. And that and to me, I think the value of being able to
Danielle Sprouls (10:41.158)
Danielle Sprouls (10:50.806)
Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (10:57.664)
share something that's a best practice that they can try is immense. And there's been great response to it. So it's been a great surprise. think I started doing videos on there, honestly, because I enjoyed it. I enjoyed making content.
I enjoyed interacting with folks. And I think the thing that resonates the most with people is that it's not super polished. It's just literally me sitting right here where I am right now at my desk and telling them. And honestly, the majority of the content there is sourced from my everyday life. Like if I'm giving you a tip, it's probably something that I need to hear and know because there's something just happened in a meeting. Like it is that real time. And so it's...
Danielle Sprouls (11:25.845)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (11:35.921)
Exactly.
Kristy Olinger (11:43.908)
It's been a great surprise and it's really resonated with folks. It's been a source of business leads. Like most of the people that reach out to me for workshops found me through TikTok or Instagram. And I've even my most popular workshop is grounded in these videos. So I do this workshop called Communication Lab where we do a five minute video that's 12 different strategies, which are just TikTok videos.
Danielle Sprouls (11:47.53)
in a source of business.
Danielle Sprouls (11:55.368)
Love it.
Danielle Sprouls (12:07.862)
Mm
Kristy Olinger (12:11.19)
And then the group votes on which ones do they wanna hear more about and dive deeper into. And it's great because it's super interactive. Like everybody knows TikTok, that platform is so fast paced and interesting. And so it's a great session to do when you're having like a full day off site and you've just had lunch and everybody's a little tired. so it's been just a really good place to.
Danielle Sprouls (12:11.286)
Mm -hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (12:21.206)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (12:30.453)
Mm -hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (12:35.192)
to hear what people are thinking.
Kristy Olinger (12:35.746)
hear what people are thinking, to really connect with people about what corporate life is like and hear their pain points and give them some tips that they can start using.
Danielle Sprouls (12:42.602)
Yeah. I love what you just shared though, to say that it's so engaging of you to show them a couple of clips and say, hey, what direction do you want to go in? You're giving them the license to express themselves and where it is that they want the most work. And it's also a testament to your ability to pivot into and do a deep dive because you are a subject matter expert. So you don't even have to be all kind of curated and ready and structured. You're like, what is it that you want? You have all of that within you.
Kristy Olinger (12:52.974)
Mmm.
Danielle Sprouls (13:11.22)
and on the fly can communicate it and deliver. And so that's fantastic. That's very impressive.
Kristy Olinger (13:13.507)
Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (13:16.804)
Well, thank you. And it's really important to me because I think when I was in that space where I was struggling with my communication, when I looked to the programs that were off the shelf from HR, they weren't specific enough to what I was going through. And so one of the things that's really important to me is that I'm able to engage with people and let them share, hey, what would you do in this scenario?
Danielle Sprouls (13:28.567)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (13:32.002)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (13:40.696)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (13:41.264)
You know, because the communication is very contextual. So I can give you tips. I can give you a million different tips, but it's much more powerful when you can say to me, hey, this is the very specific thing that's happening. And we can have a dialogue about, okay, well, you could handle it this way or maybe this way. And then you can use your context to figure out what might work. So I appreciate you saying that.
Danielle Sprouls (13:50.338)
Hey, this is the very specific thing that's happening.
Danielle Sprouls (14:03.891)
No, it really is very impressive. I want to read to you something that Peter Drucker, he was like a management consultant and educator and an author, right, a long time ago. He said, the most important thing in communication is hearing what isn't said, right? Can you talk a little bit about like how you address nonverbal cues and, you know, of course, body language, all those things, right? So it's not just what we say, but it's also how we say it or how we receive it.
Kristy Olinger (14:30.83)
Mm.
Danielle Sprouls (14:30.912)
What do you think about body language when we talk about communication?
Kristy Olinger (14:34.544)
Mm -hmm. gosh. So we could take this conversation in a lot of different directions One book that I tend to recommend very often to folks is something called the culture map It's by an author Aaron Meyer who talks about the differences in Interactions, it's not just communication. It's all it's a several different elements of how we interact with each other based on culture
Danielle Sprouls (14:47.744)
Okay.
Kristy Olinger (14:59.82)
And there are some cultures that are very direct and the United States tends to be very direct. But in other cultures, you really, the oneness is on the listener to listen for what hasn't been said to understand the meaning behind what's being said. In the United States, we're not really great at that, right? We're not, we are very explicit. We say exactly what we think and mean.
Danielle Sprouls (14:59.822)
Yeah, okay.
Danielle Sprouls (15:03.82)
Thanks.
Danielle Sprouls (15:13.981)
Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (15:26.02)
So I'll just put that out there specifically for anyone who may be in organizations or working with different cultures. That is an excellent book to sort of understand some of the nuances there. When I hear that quote from Peter Drucker though, I think about there is an element of, particularly when you're dealing with politics that happen when you're working within a company.
where you may drop a signal without saying it specifically. And so to me, something that Danielle and I talk a lot about on the podcast is being curious and understanding that everyone is going through life in a different reality than you're in. So there's the truth, then there's the way each of us as individuals are experiencing the truth.
Danielle Sprouls (16:21.784)
Such an important point. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah
Kristy Olinger (16:23.148)
Yeah, and so to me, feel like really being an active listener and asking questions and being curious to me is how I would respond to that Peter Drucker quote. But if I were to hit on your question around nonverbal communication, mean, we could talk for an hour about the different things that are important about nonverbals. We had a great guest on our podcast a couple of weeks ago.
on nonverbal communication. His name is Blake Eastman. He leads the nonverbal group, which is a, there's a lot of research around nonverbal communication. And what he said is the majority of what he does when he goes into companies is not about telling them what body language to use. It's actually about stripping away all of the stuff that you've sort of is in your head and learning and being more natural when you communicate.
Danielle Sprouls (17:20.736)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (17:20.962)
So I think there's something to be said for being a little bit more relaxed and human at work in a variety of different ways versus being super focused on where your hands are positioned or those kinds of elements.
Danielle Sprouls (17:35.976)
Yeah, no, and I can, you know, it's interesting that you went there because of your training and expertise. I think you, my question to you, my head was not really where your answer is, right? I was thinking, but I could see why you did that because you're literally teaching people on the regular how to position themselves and maybe unposition themselves. You're saying about the stripping away.
Kristy Olinger (17:46.755)
Mmm.
Danielle Sprouls (17:57.654)
But the reason that this was in my head was ever since COVID and a lot of my work that I do is remote, right? So even when I'm coaching, a lot of it is on the computer. We're meeting on a Zoom meeting. A lot of the work that I still do in the commercial real estate space in New York, we're on the computer. And I find it more challenging to be reading body language or understanding somebody virtually.
then I do person to person, not so much with the coaching because it's very intimate. It's one -on -one kind of like this, right? Where we're chatting and I could dial in and just really like focus on you. But when you're looking at Hollywood squares, right? And you're sitting there and you're in a group meeting and you hear things and then it's the tone, it's the positioning of their body, are they agitated? Are happy? Or are they being sarcastic? you know things like that? Like communication can be very complex, which...
Kristy Olinger (18:29.131)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (18:35.734)
Mm -hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (18:49.95)
you already know that and that's why you you dove in you learned about it and now you're teaching thousands or if not millions of people how to do better at their job because of that right so but body language is always interesting to me and i find and there was something that i think i even saw you do on tiktok where you were addressing you know it's more challenging or not as really engaging to do presentations virtually now i've been asked to do that and i've done that
And I have to tell you, doing a presentation and just being like one little square, having the speaker view, it is not the same as walking the room. It just isn't. I'm just more animated by nature. And I'm also the kind of person that feeds off the energy of others. And I feel it. It's not that I tried to steal it from them, but I literally, that's what gets me going. And looking at a computer and 30 faces on there, it's just not the same.
Kristy Olinger (19:30.02)
Mm.
Kristy Olinger (19:44.6)
Yeah, so...
Danielle Sprouls (19:45.502)
How do you prep a client to do something like that, like morph into it? And post -COVID, that really is an ordinary reality, you know?
Kristy Olinger (19:52.28)
Yeah, I mean, I do the majority of my workshops are virtual. It is different, but the difference is you have to create and force those feedback loops that give you the energy that you're looking for. So when you think about the communication cycle, in order for communication to happen, there needs to be a sender and a receiver. There's a channel that you're communicating from, and you're sending a message. You need a feedback.
Danielle Sprouls (19:56.662)
there.
Danielle Sprouls (20:05.217)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (20:15.594)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (20:21.732)
You need a feedback is sort of the other part that kind of helps you continue that circle or cycle of communication. And where virtual is a struggle is you have to really do things intentionally and different in order to get that feedback. So the example I will give you is that, and I do not have the specific research study on this, but I have heard that it takes as many as eight to 10 seconds
Danielle Sprouls (20:35.17)
things intentionally.
Kristy Olinger (20:51.51)
of pause for someone to feel comfortable interjecting in a meeting. Right? So if you're giving a presentation and someone has a thought or a question, you need a very lengthy pause or you need to force it by saying, what questions do you have? Or Danielle, I haven't heard from you. What are you thinking about this? Like you have to be very intentional about how you ensure that you're getting that feedback or else you're right, Danielle. It's like you're
Danielle Sprouls (20:57.116)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (21:05.978)
you need to force it by saying what questions you have. For Danielle, I haven't heard from you. What are the meaning of this? So you have to be very intentional about how you ensure that you're
Kristy Olinger (21:20.31)
speaking into the void and it's crickets and it just doesn't feel good. You don't know where it's landing or how you might adjust what you're saying and you can't really feed off that energy.
Danielle Sprouls (21:22.079)
Mm -hmm
Danielle Sprouls (21:30.728)
I love what you're saying though. You're saying you have to actually create a mindful invitation, right, to get them to participate. That's, yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. The majority of the...
Kristy Olinger (21:36.898)
Yes. Yes.
Danielle Sprouls (21:44.25)
listeners for Unscripted Pivots are female. I mean, to date for, you ever since it started maybe a year and a half ago, I've only interviewed women and I talk about a lot of women related issues, but which are very much, you know, experienced by the opposite gender as well. I'm even flirting with the idea of inviting men to now get on here. And so this podcast is growing, right? What, and the reason I bring that up is what is that in your experience, the nuances and the differences
and communication challenges between men and women. So you go in and you're helping out a company. What do you see as like, you know, the consistent barriers that women might face that men don't?
Kristy Olinger (22:24.056)
I appreciate this question very much. I will tell you, when I started my business, there were many people that suggested that I should specifically focus on women and helping women with communication. And I really railed against that because I think it's important for women and men to have the same conversations and learn together, not to ignore gender differences, but that we should be having the conversation in the same room.
Danielle Sprouls (22:47.019)
Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (22:53.634)
But the other thing that was interesting, specifically starting the TikTok and Instagram, was recognizing how many of my strategies were very masculine -centric. So I am a very assertive person by nature. I'm the kind of person that has no problem speaking in a room, regardless of the power structure in that room. And a lot of my strategies, I would say, align towards what you might see from men.
Danielle Sprouls (22:59.17)
Hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (23:22.802)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (23:23.812)
or they were defense mechanisms against male -dominated rooms. So as an example, things like leveraging filler phrases so that I'm not pausing if I'm in a room where someone's gonna take my speaker control. So I grew up in the credit card business, credit card product, most of the rooms I were in were very male -dominated.
Danielle Sprouls (23:31.212)
So as an example, things like leveraging the word phrases so that I'm not.
Kristy Olinger (23:50.028)
And so I knew that if I paused when I was giving my pitch, someone was going to jump in and take speaker control. I, I, you know, in certain rooms, not everywhere, but in certain rooms, I had strategies where I would insert filler words to make sure that I got my point across before I got interrupted. So it was really interesting to. I would say that I was not necessarily enlightened to the gender dynamic until I started doing.
Danielle Sprouls (23:50.434)
So I knew, but if I paused and I was looking right at you, someone was gonna come and get me. I, you know, I'm everywhere. I have strategies for it. would insert a door in there to make sure.
Danielle Sprouls (24:16.81)
Mm hmm.
Kristy Olinger (24:18.766)
TikToks and Instagrams and started hearing in the comments some of these, well, that's specific to women or that's the, you know, the gender, in the comment section is really where it came out that like, that's really, you're doing that because of this. And it's been fascinating to explore it as a concept. So I don't know that I, if I have,
Danielle Sprouls (24:26.632)
in the comment section is what is where.
Kristy Olinger (24:44.654)
I think the answer is still very individual and context on the human. So my advice remains unchanged, which is to discover new strategies and to test them in the environments that you're in, regardless of your gender. So not to say that you have to be gender blind, but I don't think you can give a blanket advice to any large population. I think context is everything.
Danielle Sprouls (24:49.346)
So my advice for me is unchanged, is to discover new strategies and to have...
Danielle Sprouls (25:07.922)
Yeah, no, I agree. I was curious if you saw that being exhibited across, you know, between the two genders, like, or is the female executives or mid -career level, you know, executives, are they challenged in a different way from males? Yeah, so that's, know, yeah.
Kristy Olinger (25:25.486)
Yeah, for sure. So I think the research will tell you that females get interrupted more than males. understanding what are the strategies that you can employ if you're interrupted in a meeting to take back speaker control is probably one that a female needs to understand more than others. I also find that women are less likely to be willing to speak up in a room unless they know for sure.
Danielle Sprouls (25:32.235)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (25:52.772)
with 100 % confidence that they have the right answer. So it's similar to the concept of women won't apply for a job until they meet 100 % of the criteria and men can have 60 % and be like, sure, I'll go for it. Women don't go for it in meetings. And I think that's a problem because...
Danielle Sprouls (26:03.7)
Bye.
Meh.
Danielle Sprouls (26:12.224)
I mean, they don't until like they've been around the block a few times, right? And then it's just like, yeah, you know, it's so funny. The older we get, the less we even care about any of that stuff. And it's not a lack of respect. It's just more of an increase in your own self -worth. It just really, you start to become very comfortable in your own skin and, you know, and hopefully a better communicator. Let's talk about the podcast. I mean, the opposite of small talk. you know, I think that you just celebrated, was it five years?
Kristy Olinger (26:20.462)
which is the best.
Kristy Olinger (26:28.697)
Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (26:41.678)
So five years in October.
Danielle Sprouls (26:43.822)
okay, because I heard something about that on the last one. I just so enjoy listening to you and Danielle and you have such incredible guests. And so tell us a little bit about how the podcast has added to your life, added to your career. that's a long mark because a lot of people do not make it past a year. mean, you guys have been up and running and you're doing it. She's on the West Coast. You're on the East Coast. There's a lot of coordination, time zone differences, guest appearances.
So tell us a little bit about that journey and what would you say about podcasting?
Kristy Olinger (27:15.812)
It's been the best experience. How it came to be is I was starting my business in 2019 and I realized that I needed some kind of digital presence. I had a Facebook page where I posted pictures of my kids and I had a LinkedIn account that I hadn't posted on ever. And I realized that part of today's entrepreneurial roadmap is you need to have a digital presence. And I've always enjoyed podcasting.
Danielle Sprouls (27:27.788)
Mm
Danielle Sprouls (27:31.509)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (27:39.894)
Mm
Kristy Olinger (27:45.72)
Like I am one of the OG podcast listeners. can remember downloading episodes onto an iPod Nano where you had to call, you had to connect it with a wire to your computer to get it downloaded. So I've been listening for listening to podcasts forever. So that medium really resonates with me, especially because I'm also a speaker, right? I think it's sort of like a natural medium to choose. But what I realized is that everything's better with.
Danielle Sprouls (27:54.019)
Really?
Danielle Sprouls (27:59.476)
that's wild. Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (28:08.255)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (28:14.734)
friends and with partners. And so when I thought about if I'm going to start a podcast, who would I do this with? And Danielle and I had really over the few years prior to starting the podcast, started to have all of these interesting conversations about books we were reading, ideas we were hearing, different podcasts we were listening to. And I was so energized by that. And Danielle's just such a, like, she's just such a great friend and such a fun person to talk to that
Danielle Sprouls (28:16.449)
Mm
Danielle Sprouls (28:30.902)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (28:44.692)
the idea popped into my head. said, okay, I'm going to text Danielle. And I just said, hey, do you want to do a podcast with me? And she was in an interesting spot in her life where she was in between jobs and she just sort of said yes. And we didn't have a plan. Like if you were to look back and if you were to like view the timeline of this podcast, it would seem like we had a very meticulous plan for growth and how we like evolved the strategy and the topics and whatever. But it was not like that at all. It was like, hey, let's
Danielle Sprouls (29:03.584)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (29:14.124)
let's do this thing. And it's been such a surprise and such an amazing experience. can't even believe it. So that's the story.
Danielle Sprouls (29:23.05)
Yeah, and it's absolutely incredible. And we'll have the link to your podcast in the show notes. really is. I encourage everybody to take the listen. You have such incredible conversations. And it's called so the opposite of small talk, right? Now, I understand that you talk about the importance of small talk in the workplace and how it helps to foster conversations. So let's dive into that for a second.
Kristy Olinger (29:42.219)
Mmm.
Kristy Olinger (29:46.784)
Ooh, people hate small talk. I think I knew this, but I really learned this on a recent video where people just popped off about that five minutes at the start of the meeting where people are doing small talk, and they just hate it. And here's the thing. Teams work better together when they know each other a little bit better. And it doesn't mean that you have to share anything
Danielle Sprouls (29:48.51)
I think I did.
Danielle Sprouls (30:00.694)
Mm
Danielle Sprouls (30:12.255)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (30:15.812)
Personal necessarily right like you control the boundaries of what you choose to share at work But I think there's there's real value to those minutes before the meeting starts and having a genuine human connection with people That you can't quantify It's hard for people to recognize the value of it There's a term in psychology called the mere exposure effect, which basically just says that
Danielle Sprouls (30:42.591)
Okay.
Kristy Olinger (30:44.77)
humans are predisposed to gravitate to the people and things that they know, right? Like we don't necessarily love novelty. We like knowing what to expect. So when you have an opportunity to know and be exposed to people more often, you're more likely to want to help them. You're more likely to sort of gravitate towards them. And so it's a hard concept for people to grasp because
Danielle Sprouls (30:52.576)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (31:12.756)
It's really letting go of the idea of efficiency and realizing that effectiveness can come at the expense of efficiency. So those are two different things, right? So if you started the meeting right on the dot, you could be very efficient, but you may not be as effective.
Danielle Sprouls (31:24.226)
So those are two different things, right? So if you started the meeting right on the dot, you could be leaders. Yeah. And I think that for leaders, this is also critically important because this kind of launches psychological safety, right? Which is just like, and the organizational culture and whatnot. when leaders just, it's the humanizing the experience. And we need more of that.
Kristy Olinger (31:40.92)
Yes, that's it.
Danielle Sprouls (31:53.558)
I mean, we absolutely need more of that. So small talk is okay when it's like, you know, punctuated in the beginning of meeting and it doesn't become distracting. So she says yes to that. So we can continue to do that a little bit. I want to talk to you about, so talking about speaking and I know that you have a journal and we'll put a link into that. It's up for sale on Amazon and you have journal prompts, right? So...
Kristy Olinger (31:53.71)
Mm -hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (32:18.986)
Tell me a little bit about that. When I took a glance at that, I thought these are really cool. They did remind me of a more male kind of energy because they were, it's almost like they execute clarity and confidence in those chosen words. So I thought, huh, okay, this is an expression. And I would tell you I'm more male than female in terms of energy, for sure. So, you know, it resonated with me, but.
Kristy Olinger (32:35.812)
Mmm.
Kristy Olinger (32:44.846)
Mm -hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (32:48.554)
Let's talk about your journal prompts, you have on your website. So everybody will go on your website that aren't, that haven't yet visited and become a subscriber and get some of these journal prompts that help with effective communication. So let's talk about that.
Kristy Olinger (33:03.652)
it's so interesting that you say that because when I say journaling for work, I think some people have this visual of like a 12 -year -old girl's heart -shaped pink journal with a little lock on it, right? The word journaling, I think, carries a lot of meaning for people. So if it's helpful for you out there and the word journal doesn't resonate, think of it as note -taking. We, I mean, I don't know.
Danielle Sprouls (33:15.392)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (33:25.234)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (33:28.104)
Many of us run from meeting to meeting to meeting every day. And we don't put a ton of thought, like forethought into what that meeting is and what we should bring to that meeting. And we don't put a lot of reflection into what happened in that meeting and what could have made it better. And so I know that folks are busy and not everyone has a ton of time to go do an intensive all day workshop.
Danielle Sprouls (33:35.134)
Mm
Kristy Olinger (33:53.102)
But you can learn through your everyday experiences if you're just more attentive and pay attention to the meetings that you're going into, what's happening and what you're experiencing. And so I created a set of journal prompts and they've got categories, right? Let's say you're going into a big meeting. It'll give you some prompts for, okay, who's gonna be in that meeting? What questions might they ask? So that you can think about those things in advance and be more prepared in the meeting itself.
Danielle Sprouls (34:00.406)
Mm -hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (34:22.58)
Okay.
Kristy Olinger (34:22.85)
And then there's some question prompts for after the meeting, like how did it go? What could have gone better? So you can just jot down some notes. And the thing that's really great about this, if you do it over time, is you can start to identify themes. Back to the idea that like I can give you tips and tricks, but you need to figure out your context. If you realize...
Danielle Sprouls (34:36.556)
Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (34:44.214)
Anytime Bob's in the meeting, I completely shut down because he really freaks it. You know, he's so overpowering and he, you know, I'm intimidated by him. Like that's something that you would be able to glean by just taking a few notes. So it doesn't have to take a ton of time. I give everyone free journal prompts. So just grab a notebook and these journal prompts and you can do it. But I also published this just very simple notebook that has them in there as well, where you can, you can leverage the journal.
Danielle Sprouls (34:47.318)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (35:09.675)
Okay, it's already written.
Kristy Olinger (35:12.804)
prompts and then index them. So if you do journal prompts on how you make decisions and then you can go back and see, okay, well, like page 78 and 100 and 122 were all about big decisions that I made. Let me read through those in retrospect and see whether there any themes to what the outcomes were, the factors that I considered, et cetera. So it's all this idea of working smarter and not harder. How can you leverage the interactions you're
having to learn and improve.
Danielle Sprouls (35:45.236)
And it all starts with awareness and your journal and these prompts create a sense of awareness because we cannot address that which we're not aware of. And that's why, know, but I agree with you that word journal, right? And it sounds so girly. Like we have to come up with a different word. You and I got to figure this out because it is so critical. And now I do journal. Okay. And so for everybody out there too. when I first met Kristy, met her through Danielle, as I mentioned earlier, her co -host on opposite of small talk.
Kristy Olinger (35:59.609)
I know.
Danielle Sprouls (36:12.994)
podcast. then Danielle was coaching me for a while. She was my first coach and she's fantastic. So look her up, Danielle McCombs. I'll also link her in the show notes. I was part of, what was it called? Was it was a 30 day like gratitude? What was that called? What was that called that you launched?
Kristy Olinger (36:29.22)
yes, yes, Yeah. It's the Choose Your Life Challenge. through the podcast. So, mm -hmm. Yeah. So it's a 30 -day challenge which gives people little tidbits of things to think about and reflect on to change your life and just be more aware, right? I think this podcast that we launched
Danielle Sprouls (36:34.658)
Do you still do that? Do you still do? Okay. All right. Tell us about that. Tell us about that.
Kristy Olinger (36:58.276)
is really about personal development. It's about recognizing that like you may not have all the right answers, but if you can put yourself in the rooms to be exposed to different ideas and try things out and have a growth mindset that like you can figure things out and you can learn new things, it can completely change your life. And so we run a 30 day program where we kind of get a cohort of
Danielle Sprouls (37:01.269)
Mm -hmm.
Kristy Olinger (37:25.72)
folks together and put them through a series of little mini videos and inspirational quotes and give you the opportunity to digitally journal about what you're experiencing and just to help people open their minds about, yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (37:36.456)
Yeah. No, it was great. And even the sense of community and meeting others within that cohort at the time was really fantastic. But I had already instituted journaling as a regular practice in my life, and I see so much value.
Kristy Olinger (37:44.718)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (37:50.934)
I mean, like exercise, there'll be times where I'm like really doing well for a couple of months and then fall off, you know? And so I'm not gonna call myself a journal queen, but what I do know is that it's an extremely powerful tool and that you've incorporated that from like, you a work mindset and to just go back and then even just see, you know, to revisit that meeting. Sometimes when we get out of something and then the emotions are a little bit, or the excitability, whatever the emotions don't necessarily have to be negative when I say emotions, but then you can look at it.
Kristy Olinger (37:56.344)
Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (38:18.882)
from a little bit more detached standpoint. like the observation can be a little bit different. It's very, very telling and goes all to communication. So.
Kristy Olinger (38:29.092)
Yeah, I think something magical happens when you take ideas from your mind and put them on paper. There's something in that translation that is very, powerful.
Danielle Sprouls (38:35.915)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I always experience what I call like a Ouija moment with my pen. Usually that brain dump is recognizable on page one, maybe page two. But as I continue, I'm like, who's this? Who's writing this? Where is this coming from? That's why I say it's such a powerful tool because I learn more about the things that are in the deep recesses of my brain or maybe even my heart.
that I wasn't really paying attention to. So, let it flow, let it ride right away. And writing is so powerful. that's really great that you created something like that for the career professional to do that in the workplace. Because I don't think I've ever seen anything like that. I think that's pretty unique in that regard. So, yeah.
Kristy Olinger (39:23.47)
I think so too. I think people think of those as very different things. Like if you're gonna journal, it's gonna be about your personal life. And yeah, there's definitely some.
Danielle Sprouls (39:30.144)
Yeah. Yeah. And you put structure around it. What do you think is one of the most successful journal prompts? And not even just for the journal, but like something that you're going to say in response, where do you think that people get a little bit more tripped up and look for help? Look for, you know, that, I don't want to call it a retort because that sounds really strange, but, you know, the response so that, you know, they don't otherwise, you know, get criticized or fired by their boss, right?
So where do you think that some of those struggles really come from? Do people say, I have such a hard time declining the meeting, or I have such a hard time asking for a raise, or I have such a difficult time letting them know something? Maybe it's about the safety of the workplace. Maybe it's something that's going on with a superior that's inappropriate, right? All these things that require very careful communication, right? Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (40:25.038)
Yeah, I think most people are generally conflict avoidant for good reason, right? humans have fears about conflict and what it will drive. Tim Ferriss has a great quote that says, believe a person's success can be measured by the number of uncomfortable conversations that they're willing to have. And I think what people don't realize is the more that you're willing to engage in those uncomfortable
Danielle Sprouls (40:32.01)
Yes, okay. Yeah.
Danielle Sprouls (40:46.879)
Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (40:53.508)
conflict conversations, the easier they get. Like you realize that you're not going to perish by raising this thing and you get more adept at handling it. So I would say that's a big one for folks. I had another person that gave me this just fantastic quote. I like to ask this question in my work as a development consultant to say, hey, if there was one thing
Danielle Sprouls (40:59.828)
Yes. Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (41:22.328)
that you could improve about the team, like what would make the most material difference? And this person said to me, if we could just get people to have the professional courage to say what is true and not what is expected. So I think a lot of folks don't actually speak their truth.
Danielle Sprouls (41:25.465)
Mm -hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (41:42.011)
Mmm
Kristy Olinger (41:47.012)
They say things, they couch things in a way that they think will be best received. And I think it's important to understand that it's okay for people to disagree in a room. It's expected. There should not be one, if there's 100 % harmony and alignment on everything all the time, that means that someone isn't sharing their truth because everyone has a different opinion.
Danielle Sprouls (41:47.21)
Mm hmm.
Danielle Sprouls (42:00.436)
Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (42:16.29)
I think that's probably one of the biggest things that's plaguing folks is not being able to tell their truth because they fear the conflict that might result. And that's just deeply embedded in human nature in upbringing around go along to get along and those kinds of things. And we need to figure out how to get around that because it's okay to disagree.
Danielle Sprouls (42:37.822)
It is, and I'll just say it in a healthy, respectful manner, right? I mean, we always want to kind of put it in that context. So I have one last question for you. If you could have a conversation with a historical figure, living or dead, who would it be and what would you ask them?
Kristy Olinger (42:59.869)
Ooh, historical figure.
Danielle Sprouls (43:02.72)
And when I say historical, maybe prominent, or maybe you want to talk about your grandmother. mean, every time somebody brings something up like that, I go to my grandmother. just like because of communication, like who would you want to talk to?
Kristy Olinger (43:12.28)
Yeah, so the majority of my career I spent in the product world. And there's no one that is a better communicator in the product space than Steve Jobs. it's funny, because I've read a couple different biographies. I read the big biography by the famous guy, and I read his daughter's autobiography, Small Fry. So I don't actually know if I would want to interact with Steve Jobs, but I find him fascinating.
Danielle Sprouls (43:24.256)
Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (43:41.036)
and his ability to communicate complex things in ways that are so compelling is just unmatched. So I think he would be probably one that I would be hyper intimidated, but would love to go have a conversation to just see how his brain thinks specific to communication.
Danielle Sprouls (43:41.1)
For good reason.
Danielle Sprouls (44:00.734)
I love it. And I get it. I get it. That makes complete sense. So tell everybody what's the next thing that's happening in your world. What are you rolling out? Are there workshops that are virtual that they can sign up for? I'm sure it'll be visible on the website that we will link. But what's coming up? What are you rolling out in Q4?
Kristy Olinger (44:18.732)
Okay. Okay. So the big thing for the podcast and I don't know when this episode will air is on October 19th, we're having an event in Boston. It's a live, it's a live event. So if you're East coast, if you're in the New England area, I am like so over the moon excited about this because we're gonna, we've got four different guests that are coming to be featured and we're gonna do this like random pairing of people and topics. And we're gonna have a, but like,
Danielle Sprouls (44:23.65)
Okay.
Danielle Sprouls (44:29.122)
East Coast.
Kristy Olinger (44:47.918)
three different vignettes of opposite of small talk conversations. So that's like taking all of my energy and focus right now on the podcast side. We're super thrilled about that. And then in the business, think a couple of things, like I absolutely love that workshop that I mentioned, which is the communication lab, because it's different every time. It's like a choose your own adventure workshop.
Danielle Sprouls (44:55.369)
that's so great. Yeah.
Kristy Olinger (45:12.328)
And it's just so energizing to engage with people on the things that they're most interested in. And I do it.
Danielle Sprouls (45:18.363)
So is that something that's on your website and you can just, is it like a digital download like you pay to and then you just tap it or what? Explain a little bit more. Go ahead.
Kristy Olinger (45:24.644)
No, it's, yeah. So I typically do it virtually, but I also do it in person. And it's, I call it a choose your own adventure workshop, but I feel like that's dating me a bit because I don't know if people remember choose your own adventure books or not anymore. it's the kind of thing that I could fit into a 30 minute time slot if I absolutely had to.
Danielle Sprouls (45:30.836)
Mm
Danielle Sprouls (45:51.638)
Mm -hmm
Kristy Olinger (45:51.884)
and we could do it in an hour and an hour and half as well. And it's just a great plugin to give people this mindset and skillset of, you can leverage your everyday interactions to experiment and learn on the job. and here's a set of tangible, actionable things that you can try tomorrow. And so it's just, it's a blast to do. It's so energizing just to interact with folks. I talk about the,
Danielle Sprouls (46:07.522)
Here's a set of tangible, actionable things that we can try tomorrow. And so it's just, it's a blast to do. It's so energizing just to interact with folks. I talk about
Kristy Olinger (46:21.496)
back half of that workshop is being almost like a comedian doing crowd work because it's like people are raising like, well, what if this happens and what if that happens and we're just having a dialogue and it is the most fun thing that I do.
Danielle Sprouls (46:26.953)
Okay.
Danielle Sprouls (46:35.04)
You just light up, you obviously enjoy your work. You're fantastic at it. You've got some star quality thing going on on TikTok, okay? So follow on TikTok, follow on LinkedIn. We'll have all of the links in the show notes. It is such a pleasure to have had you on here, Kristy. It really has just like you've re -emerged from like the shadows of my life. You we know each other and I listened to the podcast, but this really has brought you front and center again and very timely.
know, embark on my entrepreneurial, you know, season of my life and I'm less tied into corporate America. So I thank you for all the wisdom that you share and your energy and your enthusiasm for the work that you do. It's just fantastic. And yeah, I hope to see you again soon. Thanks for coming on. Thank you.
Kristy Olinger (47:20.795)
Thank you so much for having me.