Join Derek Hudson as he explores Essential Dynamics, a framework for approaching the challenges facing people and organizations. Consider your Quest!
Welcome to Essential Dynamics and the Essential Dynamics podcast. I'm your host, Derek Hudson. Excited to have, back with me today my colleagues from Unconstrained, Ann MacTaggart and Glen Vanstone. Unconstrained is a consultancy focused on helping business leaders get unstuck and realize their potential. Essential Dynamics is a framework that, that I developed to help us think through tricky problems.
Derek:And the Essential Dynamics podcast is designed to test the principles of essential dynamics through deep conversations with interesting people. And I'm ex excited to have my interesting colleagues back with me today for another podcast. Last time, we kicked off season four. We talked about big macroeconomic things, and then we brought it back down to a level of business leader. I think I wanna start with the business leader.
Derek:Glenn talked about five, pillars of change, I guess, that, that are really driving a different economy, a different, even society than we've had in the past. Whether it's those things or other things, and I think they all tie together, one of the things that I've noticed is I've had a lot of conversations with business leaders who have who are really struggling with, even just kinda feeling good about their businesses and their lives and the contribution that they're making. And and under a lot of stress and strain, Glenn and Anne, have you had those conversations as well?
Glen:Well, yeah. I think that everybody has had them in different ways. I know that I've been talking with, some folks in the business field, in leadership roles or whatever, that are really grinding away hard, but they're having difficulty getting traction. And even though they are positive about a lot of the things that are starting to go well, they're still grinding. And they're struggling with that because it's sometimes it's hard for them to articulate what exactly isn't working right.
Glen:That's a symptom of some of these larger shifts that are underway, that some of the businesses and business leaders are struggling to catch up to. They've been trying to catch up to a lot of things over the last few years. Certainly all the economic uncertainty, there's way too much information out there. They get overloaded with that. The consumer behavior is different because their clients are shifting.
Glen:And then they, of course, with the pandemic and even the aftereffects and echoes of that, the shifts in the workforce dynamics themselves, sometimes manifesting, you know, I can't find the right talent or, you know, it's it's a different expectation. And so all of this stuff is is is becoming a different kind of a grind, and a lot of them, quite frankly, have been around a while and don't have a playbook for it. And I think that's the the way I would describe the situation now.
Derek:Anne, what are you seeing?
Ann:I would say, similar, but maybe more, volume wise for me, internal. So internal challenges, are the things that I hear from folks that I'm talking to in their businesses where and if I kind of summarize that into and I I mentioned it the last time we had a conversation about it's the noise. It's just so much. A colleague of mine, described it as I'm feeling frazzled because I don't even know where to focus. And that frazzled symptom, is is impacting them to be completely stuck.
Ann:Like, they're they're just at a standstill. So they because they don't know what to deal with, and what to deal with first, and so they just they do nothing except feel frazzled.
Derek:Or whack a mole.
Ann:Well, fair. Yeah. If if if you're highly motivated and you're one of those guys that is like, I just gotta fix this, and so you just run around and these issues come at you so quickly and you do a superficial solving job or you're just trying to solve too much, without really looking at, is this going to actual is this the base problem, and is this the root of that problem? And is this gonna fix all of this noise and and stuff that keeps coming at me? Or is this just gonna manifest itself somewhere else by whacking that mole and not the one on the right?
Derek:Well, and there's a bit of a buzz when you whack a mole too. So
Ann:Oh, yeah. Yeah. It feels good. But Feels it feels better than being frazzled.
Glen:And and I wanna follow-up with Ann's, commentary a little bit that, he remember back when, he used to run into people and he'd say, how's it going? And they say, oh, I'm busy. And he'd say, yeah, I'm busy too. And they somebody else say, yeah. Well, I'm I'm super busy.
Glen:Yeah. No. No. No. I like that.
Ann:It's a badge of honor.
Glen:I'm crazy busy. Right? So there was this this this kind of thing that was going on. I used to chuckle about it because I was looking for somebody to say, Nah. No.
Glen:All good. I got her, under control. Everything's fine. Right. But it but it became this bit of a competition for people to be expressing how they create value in their work as some degree of intense whack a mole.
Glen:Right? So Right. I, you know, I'm super whack a mole. And instead, you know, they don't say that anymore. They just talk about, frazzling is a right term because it has that kind of a schizophrenic almost kind of a connotation to it that there's a lack of direction or there's I'm doing stuff, but I'm not sure it's the right thing anymore.
Glen:Right? And so I can be busy or crazy busy, and people probably still like to brag and and try to sort out their importance by their degree of busyness. But in a way, it's actually changed its its tone to a certain extent that, yeah, I'm I'm doing stuff, but I'm just not getting the value from that.
Ann:And there's seeing the result.
Glen:Or it might be you know, I'm I'm driving results, but the results might not be correct. It's it may be not the right kind of results that I need. And there's so when that that's now uncertainty that's introduced into this that are people paying time and attention and exerting all this value creation energy every day and starting to feel a little hollow about it because it doesn't seem to be moving forward. It doesn't seem to be actually making progress because I think there's this intuition that progress is being redefined. And so being really busy achieving or trying to achieve what has been harder now than it was in the past, and it doesn't quite fit.
Glen:And I think that that's part of that that field that's out in the marketplace right now. Right?
Derek:So this may divert the direction that we kinda talked about for this conversation, but I think it's really valuable because, in our last episode, we talked about we've had this paradigm of growth for years and years and years. We can't expect the things to grow the same way, so that's not it. Then Anne said that was Glenn. And then Anne said, so, yeah, we we've got to the point where we've got enough of a lot of things. And so that that fight for survival, which, you know, like, we're all, you know, in Western Canada.
Derek:Our forefathers, one way or another, either fought to get here, fought to break the land, to learn how to survive in a harsh climate. Like, we don't have that anymore. And so I guess where I'm putting this back to you is then we have to get back to that principle of purpose. So so we talk about management attention, and if management attention is a critical resource, then you want to make sure it's deployed to the highest effect, and you can't do that if you're not clearing your purpose. And, growth and profitability on their own aren't enough of a measure.
Derek:I don't I don't think. So, while I do wanna talk about management attention, let's just cycle a bit on on purpose and and how an exercise of reevaluating or discovering your purpose might help get to the point where you could get a little bit of flow in the sense of your creation of value system?
Glen:Well, it's kind of the why of everything, right? So somebody who is in a role, particularly in a leadership role, they have this very, very large kind of data accountabilities. And, well, they start to say, well, I'm accountable for everything, so I need to put my attention on everything. So my purpose is to move everything, in a given direction. And I think that that's a bit of an error to a certain extent because the why you are in your role is always not clear, particularly in organizations that are undergoing change, ones that either self imposed change out of necessity or where change has been thrust upon them through some sort of, event or shift.
Glen:So purpose becomes really, really, critical when it comes to that transformative process within organizations. Yet, purpose is often kind of assumed that the purpose had remains true. The change is, something to be dealt with, but not necessarily do people understand what their purpose is as part of that change process. So that kind of disconnect or incongruity of purpose, why you are in this role, why are you, getting up every day trying to create value, to what end is often one of those things that kinda gets blurred, in organizations in transition?
Ann:Derek, I think that this is the perfect time of year to be talking about, purpose because it's the reflection time of year. And it's also the perfect time of year for business leaders to reflect on the past, reflect on what they're seeing in today's environment, and focus that their, as you say, precious resource of attention on, or re reapply it, to focus on what really is purpose of this organization and what is my purpose of, my why as to why I want this for this organization. And if you can if you can define, your why, like, what's that intrinsic value of why you're still grinding it out and whacking the moles or whatever it is that you're doing to try to move your business forward. What's my why? And then what's what's this business' why?
Ann:You know, their customers need the value that you're creating. They're they're they see the value. How do you how do you understand it without you know, and we've we talked in prior podcasts about the value of a business model and understanding the organization's, its purpose, its path, its people. How do those all work in a well oiled machine? But if you yes.
Ann:It's great that you can do that, but if you never start or you never focus your management attention on understanding all of those moving pieces, you're not going to be able to actually move.
Derek:So, Anne, one of the things that that brings to mind is sometimes it's hard to understand our our purpose and to get really specific about it. You know, we can be general, but when we get specific, it's harder. One of the things that I've seen that might help is to look at I'm gonna throw at three of our concepts here, management attention, drivers, and constraints. When something is a constraint, it's only a constraint if it limits you from achieving your purpose.
Ann:Mhmm.
Derek:So you can say, this thing is in the way. It's bugging me. I know it's a problem. K. Maybe from that, you can you can derive the purpose, or you can confirm the purpose.
Derek:That thing is a problem. I don't worry about that thing because that's not constraining me and achieving my purpose. We're not necessarily thinking through that, but if you start to think about it, the driver is or the constraint is gonna be the thing that's blocking your achievement of the purpose. So so if you know the constraint, maybe you'll know the purpose. On the flip side, the driver is the thing that naturally propels you towards the purpose, So so hang on to that.
Derek:I think we've all been in conversations as guides with people, and they talk about one part of the business, and it's just a regular conversation. And then they start to get really animated, and they talk about another part of your business, and you go, there's the the drivers in there somewhere. This is what this is what is, turning this person's crank. What is it? Why do they see it as important?
Derek:And that's a, an indication of purpose. And then with respect to management attention, if that's if that's what we like, our psychic energy that we're focusing on something, when you're in the zone, so to speak, when you have flow, you that energy is aligned to your purpose. There's no doubt about that.
Ann:Yeah. And it's a flywheel.
Derek:Yeah. And so maybe you can derive purpose from where you find flow, or maybe you set out to achieve your purpose and that's how you create flow. But they're I think they're already in management, attention, drivers, constraints, and purpose. It's it's all, like you say, this flywheel where when we can we we can tap into it, then we get that flow state where the system creates its own energy, and we use the constraint. We define and adjust the constraint until it's the channel, if you will, that concentrates the energy.
Derek:And so it you can create focus with a constraint. Whereas if if you're completely without any constraints, you can create value any which way you you actually don't create a system and and you don't optimize.
Ann:But if you never go through that reflection process or focus your, management attention as the leader, what you just said is kinda moot because you have to identify, the bigger picture before you can narrow in on the problem to make it, you know, move the machine, if you wanna call it that.
Derek:So so I would say one of the purposes of our organization is to help people with exactly what you said. Because when you're when you aren't in control of your attention, it's very hard to work on the fact that your attention is the problem.
Ann:Good point. Yep. Yep. Definitely. Yeah.
Glen:And and where your attention is not in the right space, that is manifest itself throughout the business in different ways. Right? So call it the misdirection of management attention starts to show up in in decreased employee morale because remember, employees being very close to the business of the business often have a lot clearer understanding of where those constraints are and what the drivers are sometimes than the leader who is trying to spend too much attention on dot dot everything. So, productivity drops, morale drops. You have some of your best people start turning over.
Glen:You start missing out on some of these opportunities. And, you know, it's back to that, I gotta pay attention to everything, as the leader because that's the expectation of me. That's my purpose. Instead, management attention is something that you can't buy more of. Management attention, it is something that you can't, reacquire.
Glen:It's not something that, can be frivolously wasted. So I think you're both right. And if you're not paying attention to the things, that matter, then what are you paying attention to?
Ann:And and you're also Sorry, Dylan. Sorry, Dylan.
Glen:No. And and no amount of, being busier on everything is going to suddenly get your attention on the right thing within your business that really is the constraint to delivering on your purpose.
Ann:I was to also add no amount of to do lists or organizational practices or, structural things are going to help until you can focus the management attention on what to put on that list or what tactics are required to fix that problem or move that constraint or identify it even.
Glen:And back to your earlier point, it's, the right time of year. So January 1, ta da, new business, plan, new strategy, new deliverables for twenty twenty four. Everybody has got their reset and now is chasing different targets. Yeah. But if you're not paying attention to the things that matter, and you're not spending your attention wisely, the likelihood you're actually going to hit those targets or actually be able to successfully implement some sort of strategic initiative, because you're not paying any attention to it, or you're not putting enough attention on the right things.
Glen:So And that manifests itself so much in in the modern business world.
Derek:So I wanna compliment the management teams that I'm aware of and worked with and worked and and assisted that I believe that anytime they put their time and attention on the right thing, they make great strides. And so what I don't wanna do and we as we close this is for people to feel bad that they're bad managers. K. There is a limited supply of management attention. You can't hire more people and get more management attention.
Derek:It's a limited supply. It's used up in the moment, and we can't get it back if we waste it. But the demands on it are infinite and ever increasing, and as soon as you make your business a little bit bigger or a little more complex or a little more specialized, then more demands come on management intentions. So simple physics says you're never gonna have enough. And so the question is how to optimize.
Derek:And so one of the reasons in season four that we wanna have these conversations sort of directly with business leaders is because we think that's the biggest leverage point in any organization is to optimize the use of management attention, and we wanna get that topic on the table, because that's the biggest leverage we think that, that we have in in helping any company, whether they're our clients or just listening to these conversations. Would you guys agree?
Ann:Absolutely.
Glen:Yeah, very much. Lots of big, broad goals out there from various groups and organizations that want to achieve big and mighty things, and then have an entire list of busy activities for 2024 that are going to, see those kinds of outcomes. And I would bet the majority of those have not been given the right level of attention, to understand what exactly needs to happen in order to create that kind of a flow that is going to allow everybody else to contribute their own value creation every single day, to move that that business, move that, ambition forward. And that's I think that's a big part of what we as a community, as a group of businesses, as a province, as a country even, need to be really putting a lot of our, thought and energy around is to what is it that we need to do to accomplish the things we are going to have to accomplish to move, move the needle the right way?
Ann:Purposefully achieve our purpose. Awesome. It's a little too many words there.
Derek:Hey. It always it always comes back to that. So value creation systems create value only as defined to accomplish a purpose, and and usually that's to make someone's life better, something you can rally around. And, yes, let's find the leverage point to do that as effectively as possible. And it's not necessarily about bigger and more, but it's always about being more effective and helping more people, people in a better way, people, you know, with less expensive energy.
Derek:It's all the same thing, and we're we're here to help. So, Glenn and Anne, thanks for that conversation. Took a turn that I didn't expect. That's the beauty of podcasts. I'd like to thank Brynn Griffiths for, introducing us to this, fantastic medium and for his support.
Derek:And until next time, consider your quest.