The Marriage365 Podcast

How close is too close? You trust your spouse, but what about the coworker they text every day? The friend they just happen to grab coffee with? The person they swear is just a friend? In this episode, Casey and Meygan Caston are  getting real about boundaries with the opposite sex, what’s healthy, and what crosses the line.

Resources in this episode:
Book a coaching session with Casey, Meygan, or one of the Marriage365 coaches here.
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Creators and Guests

Host
Casey Caston
Host
Meygan Caston

What is The Marriage365 Podcast?

The Marriage365 Podcast is hosted by marriage coaches Casey and Meygan Caston, who share honest conversations and practical tools you can use in your relationship today. Each episode is designed to help you communicate better, work through conflict, rebuild trust, deepen intimacy, and feel connected again.

Whether your marriage is thriving, struggling, or stuck in the roommate phase, you’ll walk away with clear, practical steps toward a healthier, stronger marriage.

Because a great marriage doesn’t happen by accident. It’s built one choice, one conversation, and one day at a time.

Casey:

Affairs and infidelity is listed as one of the most emotionally traumatic and devastating events someone can go through. And yet, sadly, affairs are on the rise with some stats saying forty percent of couples will experience crossed boundaries with the opposite sex. So in this episode, we're gonna talk about how to protect your marriage from the worst case scenario.

Meygan:

We are Casey and Meygan Caston, cofounders of Marriage365, and we've been coaching individuals and couples for over fifteen years. Really trying to teach them what true healing looks like in their relationships, but also to give them hope that usually there's solutions to whatever problems they're having. We have authored six books, we are speakers, we've spoken to millions of people all over the world, I think I would say I'm most proud of and I'm sure you would agree, it's amazing when you can bring clarity to someone that feels really stuck and confused. And so we're excited to talk about boundaries of the opposite sex because it is a very confusing, heated, and touchy subject for many couples.

Casey:

And it's something we deal with often in coaching.

Meygan:

Correct. There have been boundaries crossed. So let's just start by saying this. Every single couple should be having conversations about boundaries of the opposite sex. Yeah.

Meygan:

Not like every day, not even weekly, but like, I think that I'm shocked more people don't know that, I guess.

Casey:

Right? Right. Well, I think a lot of people go into relationships maybe a little even blinded or there's an assumption like you should Assumptions. You should know what a healthy boundary is and you should, you know, assume it, I guess. Is what

Meygan:

you're Assumptions. Yeah. I think that all of us including us went into marriage thinking, of course, there's alignment. Of course, we know we're not going to break boundaries with the opposite sex.

Casey:

Right.

Meygan:

But what are those boundaries?

Casey:

What

Meygan:

yeah. What happens is those assumptions are made and someone crosses the boundary or gets really close to the boundary. Yeah. And then it's like, great. Now we've got to have a conversation, but it's heated.

Meygan:

There's jealousy, there's fear, there's doubt, there's anger, there's resentment. And so now you're trying to create a boundary, not from a healthy place.

Casey:

Yeah. There's a lot of large emotions happening. And I I always like bring this analogy to my coaching practice and I talk about like how often times, you know, like let's pretend we go on this big grassy field and I pull out a ball and I'm like, alright, I'll throw it to you. Anyway, what's the first thing you're gonna say is?

Meygan:

What are we playing?

Casey:

Yeah. You wanna know what game you're playing because when you know what game you're playing, then you know the rules, you know what's foul.

Meygan:

The sidelines.

Casey:

We know how to win and how to lose. But a lot of times people go into relationships just like, alright, let's do this.

Meygan:

Let's do this. Let's win it.

Casey:

And they yeah. And they haven't talked about what are the the boundaries. So

Meygan:

I would agree. I think, you know, something that Casey and I say a lot to people that we work with that are hurting, right, is we all need to be humble enough to think that this could happen to anybody. Like, this could happen to you. Now I know there's someone listening that's gonna say, there is no way I would never do that. Do you know that every single one of my clients that has had an affair has said, I never thought in a million years that it would be me

Casey:

Right.

Meygan:

That cheated on my wife or cheated on my husband. And affairs used to be thought of as like a guy thing. Uh-uh. They're pretty even now. In fact, I think there's a recent study that came out and I need to clarify, but that said women are having actually more affairs and their emotional affairs regardless.

Meygan:

I think for a long time it was like, oh, that's what men do. No, we're seeing the shift. It's pretty even.

Casey:

Yeah. So when we talk about affairs, the word infidelity comes up. And so this actually, I wanna talk about trust because actually infidelity, the root of that is the Latin word fadiri, which is trust. So infidelity is breaking trust in a relationship and trust is the foundation of every relationship, not love. I think that that is a misconceived idea that, you know, and and love is a feeling.

Casey:

So when feelings are good, I feel good about the relationship. When feelings are down, I don't feel good about the relationship. But trust is like the firm foundation.

Meygan:

It's supposed to be.

Casey:

But you build your relationship off of because trust teaches us who is safe enough for us to love. Mhmm. The problem is that when that trust starts having, you know, becomes like Swiss cheese instead of like a solid block, you know, a brick. Mhmm. A lot of things start happening in the relationship.

Casey:

A lot of doubt. Yeah. Right? Because I can't trust you. Right?

Casey:

I can't rely on you when I think about trust. Confidentiality, are my secret safe with you? Are you gonna be reliable? Do you take ownership? So when we talk about infidelity of breaking trust, the reality is trust was broken actually a long time ago.

Casey:

Mhmm. But couples aren't actually recognizing the signs. Mhmm. And then they don't know the boundaries as well. So Correct.

Casey:

We talk about boundaries, you know, we're thinking about like how do you protect your relationship and keep that trust high versus, you know, you're in a relationship, we don't trust each other. We call that the low trust.

Meygan:

You'll hear us in videos say, oh, are you in a low trust marriage or do you have a high trust marriage? And a lot of people are like, wait, woah. Well, there's been no affairs. So we're in a high trust. No.

Meygan:

No. Yeah. That's not necessarily true. Right. If you can't go to your spouse and bring up an issue because of their reaction, you actually don't trust your feelings

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

With your spouse. If your spouse is a spender and they don't check-in on you Yeah. And they don't hold themselves accountable financially, yet there's some broken trust there. You don't trust them with your bank account. Right?

Casey:

Correct.

Meygan:

So there's these we have to look at it as it's not just broken trust as infidelity. There's so many different ways that we can break trust big and small. Right? But here's the thing back to boundaries is you can look at it two different ways, protective or restrictive. And I think that this is going to blow some of your minds because I think when we hear boundaries, we instantly hear, oh, I'm a kid.

Meygan:

And you know, like, I'm not you know, they're not my mom, they're not my dad. But let's talk about if you view it as protective, what does that mindset look like?

Casey:

Yeah. So a protective would be like, I value and respect my relationship high enough to recognize like, I don't wanna even come close to that boundary line. So if there is like a an imaginary line, I'm not dancing on the border of it. No. I'm like, wait, I wanna protect.

Casey:

I don't even wanna jeopardize Yeah. My marriage. Yeah. My relationship with my wife. My relationship with my kids.

Casey:

So this is like the play it safe mentality. Right?

Meygan:

Sure.

Casey:

This is where, you know, I I value and and hold those things dear like my marriage is precious enough where I wouldn't wanna violate any of those boundaries.

Meygan:

Right? Even close to violating that.

Casey:

Correct. Yeah. So I'm I'm actually protecting myself from

Meygan:

And our and us as a couple.

Casey:

It was you just said, like and it's true. Every single relationship is a suspect to having an affair or breaking

Meygan:

None of us are above

Casey:

it. Right.

Meygan:

None of us are above

Casey:

So why would I even get close Yeah. To that

Meygan:

if you look at a boundary as restrictive, you go into that, like, I'm a grown up, boundaries are for kids. No one's allowed to tell me what to do. I'm an adult. I would never do that if you have that mindset of like, this is controlling or this has been made out of fear and my wife's just jealous or my husband's just this or that. That mindset is a restrictive mindset.

Meygan:

And it's actually, I'm going to challenge you, it's not a healthy mindset to have. You want to look at it like how Casey mentioned as protective, but that restrictive mindset, you will never be able to have an open conversation with your spouse because you're going in with such a closed mind. Yeah. Such a fixed mind. And so I hope this information challenges you, expands your thinking of what it actually can look like.

Meygan:

Because I do think that there have been people who have created boundaries that have been restricted. They're doing it the wrong way. Correct. They don't even know they're doing it the wrong way. Correct.

Meygan:

But I see a lot people like, well, I need to track you twenty four seven. Well, that is not a boundary that we are gonna talk about in this video.

Casey:

So I'm thinking like there's two very different mindsets. Someone that is thinking that is protective is actually that they're doing it for themselves. Right? I'm trying to protect my own relationship.

Meygan:

Yeah. Yes.

Casey:

If someone looks at it restrictive, those are rules you're putting on

Meygan:

me. On me.

Casey:

Yeah. And it's and what that the reason why that mindset's wrong is and and doesn't hold is because those are your rules you're putting on me. Yeah. But they're not that's not a a level of standards that I put on myself.

Meygan:

Yes.

Casey:

So Yeah. Okay. So we we before we get into this, we wanna talk about like how affairs are so templative. Right?

Meygan:

What They're textbook. Yeah. There's a textbook. 95%?

Casey:

Yeah. I mean

Meygan:

95% of time. There's the there's the people who are serial cheaters out there.

Casey:

That's a very small Yeah.

Meygan:

Yeah. Or if they have like sex addiction, there's there are those people

Casey:

out there. Yeah. For sure. A 100%. But here's what here's what happens.

Casey:

And every time we have a couple, it's like, yeah, we just went through an affair. They kind of start the story.

Meygan:

And we already know how

Casey:

We kind of finish the story. They're like, how did you know? It's like, well

Meygan:

Well, when you do this long enough, there is literally an anatomy to an affair that kind of happens.

Casey:

So the a couple gets married, they're doing great.

Meygan:

They're like this.

Casey:

Yeah. They're

Meygan:

like They're one, they're excited. High levels of trust.

Casey:

High levels of trust. That's how the relationship

Meygan:

gonna marry someone that you don't trust.

Casey:

Correct. So But then we go on autopilot. We start the slow drift. You're not gonna notice the drift right away Mhmm. But you know, you kind of continue to drift apart.

Meygan:

You get busy, kids.

Casey:

Busy. Yeah. Life life just happens. You stop having the hard conversations. Everything's very transactional, very roomating, and you stop feeling emotionally close.

Casey:

The problem is that most couples don't even recognize the warning signs that they're in the drift.

Meygan:

Maybe every once in a while.

Casey:

Well, until it's, you know, really too Or or the use words like, well, I hope one day we, you know, resolve our issues

Meygan:

or I hope a lot of people with kids will say, well, we just need to get the kids out of the house. Like when we're empty nesters, we'll get back on track. But really it became a child centered marriage.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

They have no substance.

Casey:

Yeah. So so the distance is there and the loneliness sets in and there's a lot of studies that talk about the loneliness in America, but that's irregardless of being single or married. There's a lot of loneliness in marriage and you think about that like being lonely in a crowded house, that is a deep hurt and if you don't know how to deal with it, you don't have somebody to talk to. What happens is lonely spouses are looking for connection out in the world and they're gonna find it. They're gonna

Meygan:

find Whether they're intentionally looking or not.

Casey:

No. Exactly. So online, at the office, at the gym, where we are really created for connection. We long for that connection. So if you're lonely in marriage, you're going to be like you're starving for that kind

Meygan:

of attention. Can I give an example?

Casey:

Some from someone else.

Meygan:

So if you were low we were lonely in our marriage. Mhmm. Okay. And you're at work, and some lady's like, oh, Casey, this is a really hey. Is that a new is that a new shirt?

Casey:

What? Well, yes. It is.

Meygan:

Oh, it looks good on you. That's a good color. K. And if I haven't, as a wife, if I haven't compliment complimented you in five years

Casey:

Right.

Meygan:

You're you're, like, craving for a compliment.

Casey:

That feels good. That feels what fills my cup.

Meygan:

Or we are on a project together at work. Mhmm. And I'm pretending I'm not his wife right now. And I'm like, that was brilliant. You did such a good job.

Meygan:

And then I

Casey:

So grateful to have you on the team.

Meygan:

Yeah. I do, like, a little arm, like, good job. Yeah. And I haven't touched you as a wife or I haven't complimented you or I haven't seen the good in you. Right?

Meygan:

I'm not saying that it's, like, okay to have an affair. We're never saying it's okay to have an affair. But it's these little moments that someone online compliments you or tells you good job or just makes you feel seen, asks how you're doing.

Casey:

Okay. So you make me feel seen. Yep. What happens is we start to tease that out in our mind like

Meygan:

My spouse doesn't make me feel seen.

Casey:

What would it be like if I was with Meygan? You know, what would it what would it feel like and we we create this whole world of fantasy because this feels good. I want and our body's like, that's a dopamine hit. I want more of that. I want more

Meygan:

of the feel goods. I don't want the loneliness disconnection over here.

Casey:

So and your spouse, then you come home and she's that person again.

Meygan:

You get complaints, you get a cold shoulder.

Casey:

Yeah. I've gotta deal with all these issues. Yeah. And then, man, I'll tell you what, you create emotional bonds with this person. You have those conversations.

Casey:

Now it's not we're not talking about work. I'm venting to you. Right? And wherever that may be, and emotional connection starts feeling good and give that enough time, it's gonna turn sexual.

Meygan:

Progressively gets Yeah. Worse and worse. You get further and further from your spouse Yep. And closer and closer to this person. It can happen online.

Meygan:

It could happen at work. We're gonna talk about all the different boundaries that we would say couples should have, but it really is textbook. It's not like most people wake up and go, who could I have an affair with today? I mean, that's not what happens. That's why it's so subtle and slow, but can quickly escalate because those feel good hormones make us make some decisions.

Meygan:

Right?

Casey:

Uh-huh. Anything for the dopa.

Meygan:

Any anything for the dopa. I love you. Shorten it to dopa, not

Casey:

dopa. Dopa. Give me the dope.

Meygan:

Give me the just give me the d.

Casey:

Give me the d.

Meygan:

Okay. So here's what I wanted to say is if you wouldn't do it with your spouse watching, you shouldn't be doing it at all. So if you're texting someone and you have to hide it Yeah. You already know you're doing something wrong.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

If you have to send an email and you're like, that was a little too personal and you delete it or think about deleting it or if your spouse saw your phone and you'd get nervous with them reading that email, you've already you're already probably straddling the line.

Casey:

Right. Or if you you, are going to lunch with somebody and you know that feels uncomfortable. So we're gonna actually go through these different boundaries.

Meygan:

Now, I wanna say, this is our professional opinion

Casey:

Yep.

Meygan:

Based off of people who have had affairs

Casey:

Yep.

Meygan:

Who have danced on the boundary lines, who have crossed the boundary lines over and over and over again. And they would all say, I wish I watched a video like that this twenty years ago.

Casey:

Yep.

Meygan:

These are also boundaries that we have in our marriage. And Yeah. We have never had an affair. So I wanna state state that too. Also, I wanna state this.

Meygan:

We both were raised in the homes where there was infidelity.

Casey:

Wow. Yeah.

Meygan:

Someone in his one of his parents had an affair. One of my parents had an affair. We are products of seeing the damage to the children and to the family unit. So if I could warn you and say anything and I could cry, don't do it. It's not worth it.

Meygan:

You will hurt so many people along the way that you don't even mean to hurt.

Casey:

And how how long ago is that? Thirty

Meygan:

We're in our forties.

Casey:

Forty years ago.

Meygan:

Fifties.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

That was a long time ago. And then there's still Yeah. Impact. Still And now our kids, which is their grandkids, are still impacted by those lacks last lap lapse of judgment.

Casey:

Lapse of judgment. Well, and we've seen just on that note, not only personally impacted by infidelity, but we have watched entire family friend groups, businesses, financial fortunes completely decimated when someone thinks with their pants versus their head.

Meygan:

Yeah.

Casey:

Right? They're literally like almost ruled by this sexual fantasy and desire. Okay. And they've completely decimated their life.

Meygan:

Okay. And while you went straight to the sexual physical part, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna strongly say that for women, they've decimated it with their emotional, their their heart. Yeah. That they're looking for that emotional connection. They find it with someone else and they've decimated their family.

Casey:

Mhmm.

Meygan:

I think for men, oftentimes it is more geared physical sexual, though I'm seeing a lot of men that are lonely and they want the emotional connection

Casey:

too. Yeah.

Meygan:

I think

Casey:

I think just sex is a natural byproduct of creating that emotional thing.

Meygan:

Planning on saying this. So just hear me out here. I actually think that most of the people that we work with, the affair started as emotional.

Casey:

Oh, absolutely.

Meygan:

Okay. I believe that some people think that emotional affairs aren't nearly as damaging as sexual. And I would say, I would completely disagree with you. Would you disagree with it? Or would you agree with it?

Casey:

I would agree with what you said.

Meygan:

Emotional affairs are actually, I believe, even harder because you felt you you formed a friendship with this person. Yeah. There's a relationship because sex can just be sex.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

It's not to say that that's not damaging or hurtful at all. But there's a lot of people who have had one night stands, and they never think about

Casey:

the drunk one night stands Again horrible mistakes.

Meygan:

Not justifying. It's not okay. But you're She never said very different kind of affair than Yeah. We were best friends or coworkers for three years, and we went to lunches, and we had techs and thousands of texts. That's a really hard thing to move on.

Meygan:

And what we would say, and we have a whole affair recovery course, by the way, if infidelity has been in your marriage, where we talk about the six kinds of affairs. And the worst one is actually what we call the rooted affair. And that's when it's sexual in nature as well as emotional. It's like your spouse basically were living a whole other life with someone else. What and usually rooted affairs are not a month long.

Meygan:

They're typically at least six months, sometimes years long.

Casey:

Okay.

Meygan:

Okay. So we have three boundaries. Yep. Three specific shouldn't say three boundaries. Three specific categories and areas that we're gonna walk you through.

Meygan:

Again, just recommendations Mhmm. Of of what we would say. Okay. Let's talk about social media. Whoo.

Meygan:

It's everywhere. It's not going away. The algorithm wants you on it. They're gonna do everything they can to keep you on it. But I think in general, there's a major lack of boundaries on social media.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

People overshare. Oh. People spend way too much time. Yeah. I know that on average, the average person spends fifteen hours a week on social media, which is like a part time job.

Meygan:

That is a part time job. It is a part time job. Yeah. I think who they follow. Yeah.

Meygan:

There's there's a lack of personal boundaries, but there's also this just like, oh, it's not a big deal. It's not going to impact me, but it is impacting Mhmm. So it's risky. Right? Because Snapchat, Meta, they're saving all this information.

Meygan:

They're saving everything, you guys. Like, they're take people can take a screenshot. And even though you delete it, it's it's never really deleted. Have you ever watched Dateline? They can pull up pretty much any phone record

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

Any meta record. They they'll find it.

Casey:

Everyone is leaving a digital Footprint. Footprint we call the breadcrumb trail.

Meygan:

The breadcrumb trail. So I I just wanna start off by saying something to think about maybe just in general. How much time are you spending on meta? Maybe it should be less. Okay.

Meygan:

So no friends with your exes on social media. You should not be following them. You should not be liking what they didn't. You should not be curious about where they're at. And I don't care if this was your first love in high school or if this was your ex spouse.

Meygan:

I just think hard rule, like, do not follow exes

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

On social media. You're you're just it's not a good thing.

Casey:

Yeah. We're gonna talk about more of that later. Yeah. Okay.

Meygan:

Hidden accounts. We have Yeah. We've worked with people where they have their public facing and then they kinda have, like, a second private one.

Casey:

Yeah. They feel like, yeah, another profile.

Meygan:

Why? You've got nothing to hide. Why do you need a second profile? Very odd to me. So you don't need to have a second account of anything.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

I mean, that that's that's concerning, but a lot of people Meta came out with a study in 2023 that said, something like third over 30% of people have more than one account. It's a lot. Now Woah. That could be a business account.

Casey:

Sure.

Meygan:

But But still.

Casey:

But see what here's it's like digital citizenship. It's like becoming someone that you're not.

Meygan:

Correct.

Casey:

And so yeah.

Meygan:

Had I had a wife I had a wife with that She kinda had a fitness thing and, you know, she posted more risque photos on this private account. Husband finds out about it. Right? So, again, what's your intention of having a second account? It doesn't really make sense unless if you can convince me it does.

Casey:

I wanna say, you know, a lot of activity happens that's not public facing in the DMs. Right? Sliding into someone's chat, you know, or the the those DMs that disappear. Why? Why do you need them to disappear?

Casey:

Right? Or or they're being deleted. Again, it looks fishy.

Meygan:

You shouldn't be DM ing someone of the opposite sex. Again, if there's nothing to hide, why are you doing that? Just do it publicly or it just it's that's where it starts. It's the breeding garments in secret. Yeah.

Meygan:

It's in hiding.

Casey:

There's a lot of husbands I've worked with that are following accounts that they shouldn't follow.

Meygan:

You mean half naked ladies?

Casey:

Half naked ladies, Yeah. Work Or workout or bikini. And, know, again, they're trying they're they're hiding it. Like what you said, if you were to follow that same person with your wife sitting next to you and you're like, oh, I wouldn't do that.

Meygan:

Let me do a deep dive on her account. Would you really sit next to your wife on the couch and look at all these women in bikinis? Of course, you wouldn't. So then why are you doing it? Yeah.

Meygan:

That's kinda how you know. Okay. Let's talk passwords.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

You and I have had lengthy debates, conversations about this. Lot of couples disagree. This is a this is a hot topic, passwords in general. So we'll be transparent. Casey and I, we don't have this ongoing list of all of our passwords for everything that we have.

Meygan:

Mhmm. I actually don't even know your email password. Okay. You don't need to say it, obviously. But I'm just saying

Casey:

It's password.

Meygan:

But I don't even know it. When do I ever check your email?

Casey:

Well, you have my email on your phone. But it's turned off. Yeah. You technically

Meygan:

Oh, for the calendar. Okay. Hold on. But here's what I'm saying.

Casey:

For my calendar.

Meygan:

But if I were to come to you and be like, oh, hey. I need to check your email. What would you do?

Casey:

Here you go. Exactly. Yeah. With there's there's no nothing to hide.

Meygan:

Yeah. How many times have you been like, oh, babe, I need to see this thing on your phone, and what do I do? Here you go.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

If I have nothing to hide, then hand over your phone, hand over your laptop. Like, there's so this is where the high trust, low trust marriage comes in.

Casey:

Mhmm.

Meygan:

If you're in a low trust marriage, we believe strongly that you should be sharing passwords. Typically, there's low trust because there's been broken trust. Mhmm. And it's a way to keep the trust levels high. If you're in a high trust marriage like us, it's really a personal decision.

Meygan:

I know a lot of couples who are in high trust marriages and they're like, we just want to be transparent and we just want to be forthcoming and we don't ever want temptation. Then that's wonderful for us. We know some of our passwords, others we don't. But at any point, either one of us has a rule where if you wanna see what's on my phone, my Instagram, my what here you go. And it's never been an issue.

Meygan:

No. So so that boundary, I feel like, is not just a gen generic, like, this is the boundary where we're like, don't follow your ex on social media is a hard boundary. I think with passwords, it's situational.

Casey:

Yeah. Sure. Probably you could say, well, I can't give you my work email. I'm sure there's probably situations We

Meygan:

have couples who work for the government who cannot do that.

Casey:

Yeah. Yeah. But again, the whole boundary is Mhmm. Transparency. Yes.

Casey:

Right? With with passwords.

Meygan:

If you could let's say your your husband or your wife works for the government and they can't share too much, you would you could say, well, hey, can I just look at your email? You could sit next to them and say, here you go. I I obviously can't give you my password.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

But here's my email. Let's sit together. You look up babe, whatever you wanna look up. Again, nothing to hide. Show it.

Meygan:

Be transparent.

Casey:

Alright. Let's talk about the workplace.

Meygan:

This is a big one.

Casey:

This is a big one because we spend oftentimes more time with the people we work with than even with our own family. You know, if it's forty, fifty, sixty hours a week or projects and traveling things like that. It's a lot of time to spend with somebody else and we know this, relationships require quantity and quality time. Right? So you think about when you are on a work team, you're working with someone of the opposite sex, you're spending a lot of time with that person.

Casey:

And of course you wanna enjoy your job. So things are cordial, things are nice. Right?

Meygan:

Hopefully. Yes.

Casey:

Hopefully.

Meygan:

Yeah.

Casey:

But what happens is there's a boundary when we start opening up personal information with these people.

Meygan:

We travel together. And

Casey:

you you're literally opening up a door.

Meygan:

Yeah.

Casey:

Especially if you start venting, like things aren't going well and

Meygan:

Yeah. So hard boundary for us, we would say that everybody should have with their coworkers of the opposite sex is never share personal information about your wife, your husband, your kids, your finances. You are opening up a door. Yeah. It's really not their business.

Casey:

You can talk about the weather and you can talk about sports. And

Meygan:

sports. Yeah. If someone of the opposite sex starts confiding in you and they start sharing, oh, I'm really struggling in my marriage and my husband, I thought about this. Stop it right then and there and redirect their conversation. You don't want to be their safe place in their life.

Casey:

Hand them a tissue and walk away.

Meygan:

Yeah. You you can still be nice. You don't need to be me. You can still be empathetic and go, oh, I'm so sorry. Okay.

Meygan:

But redirect that conversation. And if they continue to try to see if you'll be that safe place in that listening ear, you might have to go to HR. You might have to say something, but that is opening up because you don't know what's really on their mind. They might be really attracted to you. They may not be, but they just if if they're already sharing, they're struggling, then, like, that's their own boundary that they need to have.

Meygan:

Mhmm. And then don't text coworkers. Unless if it's work related or if it's an emergency, why would you text a coworker at 10PM at night of the opposite sex? Like, there's no need to be doing this. Obviously, if it's during work and you use your work phones, that's one thing.

Meygan:

But keep it professional. If your spouse saw your phone, are all of the text messages work related? If not, why are you doing that? Right? And that that's I'm like, that's a hard boundary.

Meygan:

There is no need for me to text our CTO. Hey, what are you doing this weekend? No. Like, there's absolutely no need to do that at 10:00 at night. Now if our website was down, I could text my CTO and say, hey, oh my gosh, please fix this.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

That's different, but that's That's work

Casey:

right. Yeah. I think a lot of times couples sorry, spouses to have to travel for work. Mhmm. And so I'll just talk a quick boundary with that.

Casey:

Obviously, if it's you and someone of the opposite sex and that's it, that's a hard boundary for me. Mhmm. I would never put myself in that kind of situation where I'm staying at the same hotel with a coworker and we got to work. That just feels very very

Meygan:

It looks like blue.

Casey:

Yeah. This is this was active with one of the husbands I was coaching pilot. At the end of his shift, he goes down to the hotel lobby bar, starts drinking.

Meygan:

Yeah.

Casey:

At night, late at night. Man, talk I mean, about a place where all your guards are down.

Meygan:

Yeah. You're tired.

Casey:

This is where other fellow travelers are lonely and you never know what you're gonna be walking into. So that is to me like again, it's like this boundary where

Meygan:

Are you saying not to travel? What's the boundary?

Casey:

The well

Meygan:

Don't go to the hotel bar?

Casey:

Yeah. That night, you know, drinking

Meygan:

of the opposite sex.

Casey:

Someone of the opposite sex, but even in general. I'm just saying the people that are down there

Meygan:

We have a lot of pilots and Well people in the travel industry, unfortunately, that the affairs are very

Casey:

Dentists, pilots, there's Masters. Yeah. Doctors. There's certain occupations that really you have to be very careful with yourself because there's a lot of affairs that happen in those types of situations and settings. So traveling by yourself with another person of the opposite sex, just the two of you, that's like a hard boundary for me.

Casey:

I wouldn't do that.

Meygan:

I wouldn't either.

Casey:

And then, you know, again, I would just say, let's talk about one on one meals. Because we had a conversation before we hit record about this. Yeah. You're smiling because

Meygan:

of what we talked kind of like the passwords. There's there's a lot of ambiguity and confusion and you and I didn't agree.

Casey:

So okay. Let me do this

Meygan:

One on one meals with the opposite with the opposite sex. That would be like Casey going to lunch with another woman.

Casey:

Correct.

Meygan:

Specifically in this one as a coworker.

Casey:

A coworker. I before I just drop what I'm gonna try to say. Yeah. You know, we're in a high trust marriage. So I don't think that there's anything wrong with that.

Meygan:

Uh-huh.

Casey:

And again, because I'm also thinking, well, I'm happily married like, well, that's Yeah. We're having lunch to talk about something. Like I'm thinking like a power lunch. Hey, let's go let's talk about the account. Let's talk about sales or we just did a sales call, go go to lunch.

Casey:

For me, I'm feeling like you're in public, you're out in the open. Mhmm. That's okay.

Meygan:

So high trust high trust marriages, you think that's okay?

Casey:

I think it's okay. Dinners, drinks, happy hours, one on one with another person of the opposite sex, no. Even in a high trust marriage.

Meygan:

And I disagree with him because of this. It's not about the dinner, the drinks at nighttime. If you're not doing well in your marriage and there's loneliness and emotional disconnection, then it doesn't matter if it's breakfast, lunch, or dinner. It doesn't matter the setting. You're setting yourself up for crossing a boundary.

Meygan:

Also, let me ask you this.

Casey:

I do agree with that.

Meygan:

You work with Christy. Why would you go to lunch with Christy? Just you two and not me. That's why I'm trying to figure that out. I'm really wrapping my mind around how you think it's okay.

Casey:

That's that's our situation. I'm now I'm also thinking

Meygan:

Friends is different.

Casey:

I'm thinking like if you're on a work team and you're like, hey, let's grab lunch and let's talk about this new product launch.

Meygan:

Yes. I do You're right. Okay. I do think with with coworkers, there are lots of opportunities to do that. Again, if you're in a low trust marriage, I wouldn't do it though.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

I wouldn't. I'm sorry. I are not. I'm sorry. I wouldn't do it.

Meygan:

That's my professional opinion. Yeah. I think you're asking for it. I think in a high trust marriage, we're not saying that every couple should say yes, just like passwords. I think it should be discussed between you two.

Meygan:

And if you don't agree, you need to meet with what us or one of our coaches, because it's kind of all dependent on past trauma. If your parents had an affair like ours, there might be some more sensitivities to it. Maybe you were cheated on by your ex spouse, Like, all that factors into it. I'm gonna vote. I don't think that you should do one on one meals with coworkers.

Meygan:

I think you're asking for it. One on one meals with the opposite sex. That's me. I never have. I nor do I have a desire to do that.

Meygan:

I would invite you.

Casey:

I also worked in corporate America at at one point where Sure. There were times where lunches were had.

Meygan:

True. I worked at a school with a bunch of women who were teachers. So there was no men. So Okay. Yeah.

Casey:

Anyways, here's a bonus tip just we wanna pass this along. If you want to build trust, obviously, it'd be harder for a coworker to go, Meygan's married, but I've never met Casey, but I'm gonna try to hit on her. Mhmm. Right? However, if Casey shows up, you know, dropping off lunch or coming down for coffee, you know, encouraging you well, that was a long way of saying, have your look at you.

Casey:

I'm trying

Meygan:

to figure out where you're going with this.

Casey:

Have your spouse show up at work.

Meygan:

Invite them.

Casey:

Yeah. Drop off.

Meygan:

Hey, come to lunch with me. I want you to meet my coworkers.

Casey:

Yes. Drop off lunch. Drop something off. Make your spouse visible. Mhmm.

Casey:

Because then that kind of

Meygan:

Shows everybody.

Casey:

Shows everybody this is my partner and this is my spouse.

Meygan:

Is that what you meant?

Casey:

That's the long way of saying. Just that's a bonus tip is involve your spouse with your work. So that way everybody knows when they meet you, they're like, oh, Casey's behind Meygan, you know.

Meygan:

Yes. Yes. The word team. Yeah. Yeah.

Meygan:

There is actually a really It's spouse.

Casey:

It's kinda like a dog ping, you know, and marking its territory. Right?

Meygan:

Like Kind of.

Casey:

You're kinda like marking the territory like, this is mine.

Meygan:

Yeah. But it's way more meaningful if your spouse invites you versus

Casey:

Horrible analogy.

Meygan:

Versus me going to your workplace and going, hey, I'm coming to lunch with you right now.

Casey:

Yeah. Okay.

Meygan:

That that like, it's very trust building if you invite your spouse to your workplace.

Casey:

Okay.

Meygan:

Can we move forward now?

Casey:

We can.

Meygan:

Is it that funny to you? I think it was that funny.

Casey:

Dog peeing to Marcus territory.

Meygan:

It's kinda the

Casey:

same thing.

Meygan:

Well, the third area that we would say definitely needs boundaries with the opposite sex

Casey:

Yep.

Meygan:

Is with exes. This is the messiest relationship to maintain. At one point, there was romance. There was feelings. There was kissing.

Meygan:

There was sex. There was I mean, all the field, the dopa, the the d.

Casey:

Give me the d.

Meygan:

There was the dopamine, the oxytocin. Right? There there was the goods Yeah. At some point.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

So it's not just some random coworker or some friend. Yeah. Like, there was romance.

Casey:

There's an emotional bond.

Meygan:

There was an emotional bond. Yeah. And so to think that like, oh, that was then, I almost I don't mean to laugh, but I hate when I see people say that because I think you're just setting yourself up for failure.

Casey:

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, here's the thing that I think a lot of people can get themselves into trouble is if we're not doing good and then I'm talking to to my ex, you know, sometimes we can romanticize and fantasize like, oh, remember when I was with that person?

Meygan:

They didn't do this.

Casey:

Yeah. And you kinda They like

Meygan:

made me so good.

Casey:

Paint this picture like, you're bad, that looks a lot better, and you're gonna go after that.

Meygan:

You know, just a side tip. Our daughter is in the dating world, and every time she breaks up with a boy or she gets broken up with, I have her make what? A pros and cons list. Yeah. And I said, because there's always gonna be good that you had that kept you together.

Casey:

But there's a reason why you broke up.

Meygan:

There's a reason why you broke up and why you're not together. And make sure and I say, when you're lonely, you're gonna go straight to the pros list. And I'm just thinking about this is just like, I wasn't even planning on saying that. But When you're lonely and you miss him, you're gonna go, but he did this and he was romantic and he was so cute. Said, but you're gonna wanna also reenter the cons list because there were cons in every relationship.

Meygan:

It's interesting because she's always like, mom, you're so right. And I would say, this is what happens when we're lonely in our marriage. Yeah. We just go to the highlight rail and the pros of our ex. Yeah.

Meygan:

And we don't remember the reason why you're still not together and why they're your ex.

Casey:

Oh, man. How many times do we have to pull that pros and cons list out?

Meygan:

For boyfriend number one. Yeah. First love. That's a tough one. Right?

Meygan:

I think for all of us, it's a tough one. Yeah. So Boundaries of x.

Casey:

Boundary with the next is absolutely no one on one time, no need to text them, no contact. No. Okay. I I don't care how your relationship ended or we're just friends. Yep.

Casey:

If you are married and committed to your marriage, there's no need it's like having divided loyalties. There's no need to have Yeah. Any sort of play with that. Yeah. You don't need to follow them on social.

Casey:

You don't need to have phone calls with them. You don't even need to ask your friend how they're doing.

Meygan:

Yeah.

Casey:

They're dead to you.

Meygan:

Yes.

Casey:

In a committed relationship.

Meygan:

Yep. No texting, no email, no one on one contact. They're really this is a hard boundary. Yes. Absolutely.

Meygan:

Okay. Now, I know some people are thinking, Oh, shoot. I have an ex spouse and we have children together.

Casey:

Yes.

Meygan:

So they are my ex, and there was romance and there was love because you got married and you had children. But we still are in each other's lives because of the kids. And unfortunately, you're in each other's lives forever because of the kids and the future grandkids. So obviously, what we want to do is if you're married, right? You're remarried to somebody else.

Meygan:

You do just want to be really play it safe. You don't want to give your spouse any idea that there's something still there and that you still have feelings and you were just mad at them. And so you want everything to be very public. They have these amazing apps now for co parenting, by the way. There's tons to choose from.

Meygan:

Nothing's deleted. There's no secrets. It's all out there. And really, that's more for custody battles and stuff, but you can actually use it as ongoing communication. Public settings.

Meygan:

So when you drop off the kids, make sure your spouse is home. Or maybe if you've got the ring camera, step outside and do it in front of the ring camera. You just don't want to leave any room for any kind of doubt or fear. You know, if if something is done in private, like your your ex does text you because you're dealing again with the kids, be forthcoming, be transparent with your spouse immediately. Hey, they kind of said something.

Meygan:

It rubbed me the wrong way. I just wanted to bring it to your attention. If you don't say anything, and then they see your phone and they're like, why did your ex text you this? It just makes you look guilty. Don't do it.

Meygan:

When we coach people We

Casey:

get the screenshots. Like, people send it to us.

Meygan:

Oh, it's so sad. It's so hard. Yeah. I know. And I the the body language and the voice and the the the nonverbal.

Meygan:

Oh. This is like the look guilty, and then the and then the person's on the other side of their coaching call going, I know. And I'm like, so just don't do it again. Like, it I get it. You don't wanna have conflict, but, like, the more transparent that you can be when you are co parenting with particularly your current spouse is the safe bet.

Meygan:

Like, that is a hard boundary for us.

Casey:

And husbands. Let let me just talk directly to you. Yes. Because I think

Meygan:

Shout it from the rooftops.

Casey:

This is definitely a gender difference. Women, they say have a much better intuition, stronger discernment. They're filled with wisdom. When she confronts you about something, do not get defensive. She probably sees something that you're not seeing and she's here to say, yo, warning sign, this person is not safe.

Meygan:

Hallelujah. Amen. Amen. Hallelujah. Yes.

Meygan:

Did you hear that?

Casey:

And I hear a lot of husbands even in coaching settings, she's like, I feel really uncomfortable with around this person. Babe, there's nothing to be worried about.

Meygan:

I'm not even attracted to her.

Casey:

But but

Meygan:

It makes you look like you're defending that woman and not your wife.

Casey:

You have to pay attention to that. The more you fight it, the more you push back, the more guilty you seem. And and guys, I'm actually gonna let you say this because it's about women. Mhmm. But guys, you may I'm probably most likely have the most innocent intentions.

Casey:

And and

Meygan:

I was gonna say naive.

Casey:

Naive? Okay.

Meygan:

I think men are naive when it comes to this. And I hope that goes viral and gets me into trouble. Yeah, I do. I believe men are naive. I believe that if they don't find the woman attractive, I believe they assume there's nothing there.

Meygan:

And here's what I'm gonna tell you. Women are extremely attracted to married men, especially men that are fathers. I know it's weird. Just hear me out. I think a lot of men think, oh, they like the bad guys.

Meygan:

We did in our twenties and in our teens, Not when you're 30, 40, 50, 60. You want the men that are that value family and marriage. And so when you see a man and he's a good provider and he loves his family and his kids, it's a turn on for a lot of women.

Casey:

I can't wait to see the comments on this video after what you just said.

Meygan:

I bet you all the women are gonna be like, yep. Yep. Yep. And I'm not saying that all women are like this. There's a lot of them out there like this.

Meygan:

And I think that that's where when your wife has that gut discernment, that vibe of like, I just don't get the good vibe from her. I'm telling you women do have a spidey sense about this. Right, ladies? Put in the comments. And I think that if the you're right.

Meygan:

The moment that the man gets defensive, it's like, so does does her feelings matter more than my feelings? Because we're the ones that are married. Yeah. Right? And I'm gonna say this.

Meygan:

And what? Let's flip the tables. If you were uncomfortable with someone your wife was hanging out with, would you want her to defend that man? Oh, babe, I don't find him attractive. Oh, that's I'm not into accountants.

Meygan:

No. That's not my jam.

Casey:

Accountants?

Meygan:

I don't know. I just picked a I picked a job that I that came to my mind. I was doing my finances this morning.

Casey:

Bore you know, Excel spreadsheets are boring.

Meygan:

Yeah. But but would you want her to defend defend this man? No. You'd want her to be like, oh, babe, I'm okay. It's he's not worth it.

Meygan:

You're everything to me. Whatever you need. So I think that like, gosh, if I could engrave that in couples before they got married, like if your spouse comes with a concern, the worst thing you can do is defend in in that person or defend yourself. The best thing you can do is be like, tell me more. Okay.

Meygan:

Share me about your concerns. What is it about your gut feeling that about this woman or about this man? And it does go both ways. I know that there are men who are very attracted also to women who love their husband or love their kids. I just think that gender specific women are way more attracted to men.

Meygan:

They don't even care what he looks like. Well, he he's That he's a family guy.

Casey:

He's proven that he can provide Yeah. Protect, and he's got kids. He's got a nurturing side to him.

Meygan:

Everyone loves like a good dad. Yeah. Like, that if you look at like all the romance shows, he's usually, like, he vowed he's not a jerk. He's not a playboy. Yeah.

Meygan:

He's the good guy that loves the family and the wife, and he's romantic. Channel. Yes. He's the Hallmark channel man. Yes.

Meygan:

Like, just one day, I just wanna own a bakery and with my wife and my kids. You're like, wanna own a bakery with my wife and my kids. Right? You're like, yeah. Anyways.

Meygan:

So, yeah. Okay. So here's what I wanna say. If you're stuck and you're like, okay, I love this. We're watching this video together.

Meygan:

We're having conversations. They're going sideways. My spouse doesn't agree. We don't align. We don't see eye to eye.

Meygan:

You need to reach out to one of our Marriage365 coaches. We can walk you through this. Boundaries are one of the most confusing and misunderstood topics in marriage. Boundaries.

Casey:

And forgiveness.

Meygan:

And forgiveness. Boundaries and forgiveness. And, and, and they can be restrictive. Maybe you've had a spouse that said, I want to monitor you and I want access to everything. And they've been made out of fear and jealousy.

Meygan:

That's not a boundary. Okay. That that that's more like a punishment and like a control issue. There are beautiful ways to do this out of love and protection and I value us. So I'll do whatever I need to do to protect us.

Casey:

Yeah. I think

Meygan:

I've never put myself in a compromising position and I can stand strong in that in twenty five years.

Casey:

Yeah.

Meygan:

Because I have those boundaries. I don't wanna be that wife.

Casey:

And it has everything to do with that mindset though. Am I doing this to protect my marriage and I'm I'm being proactive in my life or do I feel oppressed? You've got live 03:60 on my phone or a tracker in my car to to follow me. Yeah. That's not the kind of marriage No.

Casey:

I would wanna be in. I wanna be in a marriage because love is risky. Let's just say it. Love is risky. I'm giving you my heart.

Casey:

Yeah. I hope you hold it.

Meygan:

Yeah.

Casey:

And you you protect it. But there's risk because you could

Meygan:

Heard it.

Casey:

Hurt

Meygan:

it. Or squeeze it too tight.

Casey:

But that's the that's the tension that makes a marriage interesting, you know, there's there's that little tension that we we talk about. But again, we wanna say that trust is the foundation of your relationship. I'm not gonna give you my heart unless I trust you. And the way that I show up and I go, hey, Meygan, these are my boundaries. I'm gonna make sure that I don't get even close to these lines.

Casey:

Helps you trust me even more.

Meygan:

Absolutely.

Casey:

Well, that's it for today's episode of the Marriage365 Podcast. Obviously, if this subject matter hits close to home, we want to help you walk through what it looks like to heal from the hurt, but also how to rebuild for the future. We have Marriage365 coaches on standby who are ready to meet with you. Head to marriage365.com for more information. Maybe you have a friend that needs to hear this message of hope or healing or just the practical tools and boundaries.

Casey:

Would you mind sharing this or leaving us a review? That would help us get this information in the hands of so many other couples out there. Thanks.