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We are discussing the biggest challenges that are currently holding back the field of speech-language pathology. We present the issues with facts and invite you to be a part of joining our movement to make things better, one conversation at a time. Let's fix SLP!
Hosted by Jeanette Benigas, PhD, SLP
Megan Berg 0:00
Hi everyone. I'm Megan Berg
Jeanette Benigas 0:02
and I'm Dr. Jeanette Benigas.
Megan Berg 0:04
And we are here to fix SLP.
Jeanette Benigas 0:06
We are discussing the biggest challenges that are currently holding back the field of speech language pathology.
Megan Berg 0:12
We present the issues with facts and invite you to be part of joining our movement to make things better one conversation at a time.
Jeanette Benigas 0:19
Let's fix SLP
Hello, fearless fixers. We're here for episode 12. Every single time, Megan and I sit down to record I always start with oh my god, Megan, I cannot believe how much has happened. Okay, first of all, kudos to Megan. She is like the brainchild behind all of this, I just sit here and act like a cheerleader and scream. I'm not sure. But she has stumbled on so much information this week. We don't even have all of the posts out. So I'm gonna ask her in a minute to talk about something. But something else that has happened in a matter of 48 hours, we had two major large, big hospital systems in Ohio reach out to us about organizing and gathering information about removing the CCC, from job postings and from the requirements. And if this happens, oh, man, the one hospital system has about 80 SLPs in it. And the other one has got to be double that. I mean, I'm familiar with both of these systems. This could impact hundreds of SLPs working in hospitals in Ohio. I am so proud of our Ohio fearless fixers for working on this. Yes. Also, it just so happened I knew one of these people. But it was very random. She joined our platform to look for the information. It just so happened that she was the only one to follow us in like an hour's time. So her little follow was there alone. And I knew her name. And we've not worked together. But she has given me some amazing mentorship before. So I reached out and said hi. And she's like, Oh, this is so coincidental. I just got on to get information. I'm like I know her. So it's not like this happened in Ohio because me Jeanette is in Ohio. This happened because our listeners are pushing their bosses to change verbiage. And it just so happens that I'm here. And I'm a little bit more familiar. If you guys are doing this in your states, let us know if you want help. If you want to report what's going on, we want to hear from you because it is so important. So we will keep you posted if this verbiage gets changed. We will be posting full pictures of full teams of fearless fixers on our socials. And so that's been a really big win. I just because this is where I live to. And so to know that this is happening, like right here at home, it's just my heart is racing. So it's so exciting. So Megan, today, you stumbled upon something about audiology? We recently like an hour ago ish posted about it, why don't you tell us what you found? And what that what it means?
Megan Berg 3:34
Yeah, so there's been a lot of content posted lately sort of historical information. And for people who don't know, that's what my undergrad degree is in is in history. And I feel like, the more we know about our past, the more we know, like why things are the way they are now. And there's a lot of history wrapped up in Asha with audiologists. And there's there was kind of a split that happened that we'll be talking more about where audiologists went into their own thing. And so there's the Academy of Doctors of Audiology. And they obviously have their own interests in mind. And they compete with Asha. So we kind of have to take everything with a grain of salt. But because audiologists have multiple options, instead of just Asha and only Asha, they do have more voices in the field sort of saying like, hey, this isn't right. And that isn't right. And you can't push that without changing the language about this. And so one example of that is that Asha does not require audiologist to be supervised by audiologists who pay for the CCC. And that's a double standard because SLPs are required to be supervised by someone with the CCC in order to obtain the CCC. And so I don't I haven't been able to track on exactly why that's the case. But my assumption is that there's been pushback from the Academy of doctors not in of Audiology. Or another possibility is that there just aren't enough audiologists that are continuing to pay for the CCC. And Asha recognizes that. And they know that they will get more customers and more money if they remove the requirement for the CCC to be required of supervisors. So we talked about that on Instagram. But basically, that could be a direction that we had as SLPs. But since we don't have a different organization advocating for us, it's really just going to take supervisors having conversations with your organization's employers, institutions, universities, etc, to just really start to critically examine if it makes sense that supervisors have to hold the CS. Or is that a conflict of interest? Because the Council for academic accreditation, which accredits SLP grad schools is run by ASHA, and Asha makes millions of dollars every year by selling their certification program.
Jeanette Benigas 6:14
Yeah, and like, as a, I don't want to call myself an academic because we've been over here like, academics, but as a PhD working in academia, one of the biggest things I've been getting contacted about is how all of this is going to affect our students. This is it right here. Audiologists don't have to do it, why do we this is such a simple change they could make that would make everybody happy. A one simple change, now, they won't be happy, because it will impact their pocketbook. And so I don't think they're gonna go down without a fight. There isn't another organization fighting for us, like you said. So here we are fixed SLP. Let's fix it. But we can't do this alone. It has to be, you know, like these two hospital systems that are reaching out and making these changes. And it just gonna take all of us doing it to make it happen. And so changing this verbiage is where we start getting this verbiage changed is, is the biggest thing we should all be working on right now until we come out with another call to action. That includes and this is where I'm going to plug this as we get ready to move on to our topic that includes sharing our content, sharing our content is so important because we need to grow the base of people who follow us. So when we have a big call to action, whether it be writing letters to the board, going to your employer, I don't know, a lawsuit. I don't know what it's going to be. But when we get to that point, we need people on our team. And so the more people that are following us, the bigger Our army is, the more impact we will have. So sharing our content. One way you can do that is clicking Share on your socials. Tag us when you tag us we reshare or everybody press pause right now, go give us a five star review on where you're listening. I could be wrong. But I think the only place you could can write a review. Megan is on Apple podcasts. Has there been and depends
Megan Berg 8:28
on the podcast app. Okay. Because Apple podcast, please. Yeah, someone
Jeanette Benigas 8:33
reached out to us. She said I can't figure out how to write a review. And I don't think there was a place and I don't think there's a place on Spotify either. But Apple podcasts, right is that review, it's so important because it will show up higher in suggestions to other SLPs. And you know, it just we are still in that top 100 list, which is so exciting. No one's looking at it. But us but yeah, that's please pot, take a pause, go rate and review us. And that's another great way to share. So we're gonna jump right in because I am today again on a time constraint. Megan, what are we talking about today? Okay,
Megan Berg 9:12
today, we're going to take a look at how other professions regulate themselves. And so we're going to hear from 12 different people from 12 or 11 different professions, and just see how they're all organized and regulated. And I think it's important to have this conversation because as SLPs I think we a lot of us just are like, well, this is the way it's always been. This is how it is this is how everybody does it. This is just the reality. And this is how we ensure that we have the best quality therapists out there in the world. And I would just continue to argue that there are so many different ways to do things. There's different perspectives, there's different systems. I was thinking about this before we recorded and like in when I was living in New Zealand I had to Take my car in every six months and have it evaluated by a mechanic. And that was, that's the way that New Zealand keeps their roads safe. Or like, instead of paying for someone to come pick up my trash, I had to go to the grocery store and buy like these government stamped trash bags. And that was their way of like, basically taxing people who were creating a lot more trash than other people. So there's just like, always different ways to do things. And I think it's helpful to hear from systems outside of our own. So we can start to get some perspective on the water that we're all swimming in. So we are going to start with Bethany, who is a counselor,
Speaker 1 10:44
my name is Bethany, I am a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor, I am licensed by my state, I do not belong to my National Association, because I did previously as a new professional and did not renew my membership, because I did not think that it added value. I do not belong to my state association for the same reason. I do not purchase a national certification. Because one does not exist. Although the counseling profession is beginning to look at forming a counseling compact in different states.
Jeanette Benigas 11:24
It's great to have a compact. I think we're all going in that direction. But it seems like she has a lot of freedom there. Yeah.
Megan Berg 11:33
And a lot of like, she gets to decide what's important to her if she feels like something's benefiting her. Yeah,
Jeanette Benigas 11:40
I don't know. I don't I have a lot to say about some of these. But I think this was one where there's a lot of mental health professionals out there. There's a lot of them and their national association could easily be forcing them to join for tons of money, but they are, you know, it's out there. It exists. Interesting, no certification product created. So that that's a difference, right. But they're also not being forced to join.
Megan Berg 12:14
Okay, this is Dana, that right? Mina? Yep. Dina, and can you tell us what a sanctions compliance officer is? She's
Jeanette Benigas 12:22
better now. She's probably not listening. I'm probably gonna, like, tell you wrong. But she's, I think she's more of like, a forensic accountant. So what she does is slightly secret. So you know, I think she is more white collar crimes, where she is looking into sanctions against companies who have committed crimes with money. And so that I that I think in a nutshell, sorry, Dina, if I said that wrong, is what she does.
Speaker 2 12:57
My name is Dina, I'm a sanctions compliance senior officer. I am not licensed by my state. I do belong to my National Association, because my employer recommends it. I do not belong to a state association, because they don't exist. I do purchase several national professional certifications, because my prior employer required them for promotion. But I've maintained them because I believe they add value.
Jeanette Benigas 13:26
All right, I think this is one where I have something to say I could see that. Because just for transparency, Dena is my sister in law. So I've known her for a long time. And I've watched her career. And in accounting, you know, there's certain skills almost like an SLP, there's certain skills that you need to have, that you're not necessarily going to learn in school, like accounting is such a big broad area. And so what she's doing is so niche that I can see, like to get promoted, and to be, you know, to move up the ladder, how she has needed to do some of these things, I think is very, very profession specific, though. Yeah, yeah.
Megan Berg 14:07
There's not enough he did not have.
Jeanette Benigas 14:10
She has a national she has. She has a couple certain I have a state license. Yeah, no, there isn't one and there's not an association. Yeah.
Megan Berg 14:20
And I think that's like when there's a gap. It's kind of like, things just sort of shift around. So like, if there's not a national certification or another national association, or there's not a state license, then I feel like certifications tend to come in and fill that gap or, or if there is a national certification. Anyway, sorry, what were you gonna say?
Jeanette Benigas 14:39
Oh, I was just thinking like circling to SLP how Oh, our CCC doesn't guarantee competency across the scope, where there are enough of us where we could split into school or pediatric and health care or you know, somehow make these tracks. But with what he's doing, it is so refined and so niche there aren't even enough students. tends to create programs in that kind of thing. So you would need these extra certifications. And this is coming up to for someone else that I know who recorded that in order to do what she's doing. She has to get the training. And then, you know, she said she maintains them because she feels like they add value. I don't, I didn't ask her what is involved in maintaining them. I don't know if it's, you know, continuing education in that specific area or continued training, I could see even how how they investigate crimes changes, and you know, the technology changes. So she probably does need constant updating, you know, because she's, that's the job she's doing. I when I watch her, like when I think about her, I chose the wrong field. I can't number we know that from this podcast, but and if I was smarter, I'd be.
Megan Berg 15:58
Okay, next we have Emily, who is a registered dietitian,
Speaker 10 16:01
My name is Emily, I am a registered dietitian. I am licensed with the state of Montana. And I do not belong to my national national association, because I have felt as if I don't get much value from it. And I do not belong to my state association, because I have to be, I have to belong to the National Association. If I want to belong to the state. I do not have a national certification. One is not available for us. And unless you're getting some sort of an advanced practice certification in some specialty area.
Megan Berg 16:49
It's interesting that Asha doesn't require you to be a member of Asha to be a part of your state association. Oh,
Jeanette Benigas 16:56
my gosh, could you imagine the how the crowd would go wild if they if they tried to make that a thing?
Megan Berg 17:06
I mean, yeah, state membership would drop even further be like, yeah.
Jeanette Benigas 17:11
Yeah, I wonder or like,
Megan Berg 17:13
is there another model that we haven't thought of, I mean, I know Asha puts a lot of money towards state associations, like, maybe there could be some sort of hybrid membership, where if you are, if you do pay for Asha membership, then you get a discount to your state association membership or something to try to encourage and offset the cost for these state associations. And honor the fact that Asha does provide a lot of support for them.
Jeanette Benigas 17:43
Can I ask a question that I don't know the end? Do they provide a lot of support for them? Because there's money, that's grant money, but they don't all get it? And they have to apply for it. And it's not that much from what we've heard. Yeah. And they help with some advocacy. But what does that look like? Other than that, and we've learned that they only recognize one association. So if there's per state, so if there's more than one like there is an Ohio, only one gets to benefit from Asha? Yeah. So how much are they helping? Right?
Megan Berg 18:24
Yeah. And you think about So there, I looked at there. Somewhere, I saw their recent budget was looking more like closer to $80 million for this fiscal year, or maybe last year? And yeah, like you just think about, like, if a chunk of that money went towards the states, then Asha could stop saying like, Oh, that's a state issue that we can't be involved in. I mean, I don't there's probably lots of reasons why a national association can't have 50 different arms, but they do. I don't know like, why they
Jeanette Benigas 18:58
do. They do. When it appeared, the optics of it look like they do when it's convenient for them. And they don't when it's not convenient for that. Just say, That's what appears to look like I have no proof.
Megan Berg 19:23
Okay, moving on to Hiruth, who is an attorney.
Speaker 11 19:28
So my name is Hiruth. I am in house counsel for a company. I am licensed by my state. With attorneys, the licensing process is a little different. We have what's called a bar exam. So it's a two or three day tests depending on the jurisdiction. And once you pass the exam, you essentially are in admitted to your state bar. There is no such thing as a national license for lawyers. Each jurisdiction has its own licensing requirements. The closest thing that we have to a national license is what's called a uniform bar exam. Currently, I think about like 40, or 41 states have adopted the uniform bar exam, which is essentially then standardized examination, you know, standardized materials, standardized questions and dice scoring. But each state that has adopted, this exam can set its its own amendment minimum passing score. And what that means is if you take the exam in your state, say, Colorado, Colorado has a minimum passing score of let's just say, like 160. If you score 160, you become licensed in Colorado, say, for example, sake, Iowa has a minimum score of 165. And you only had 160. Obviously, you can't waive into Iowa. But if you had 165, as a passing score, from taking the Colorado bar exam, you could essentially transfer your passing score to Iowa, and you would not need to retake an Iowa bar exam to get licensed there. So it allows reciprocity with states so long as you meet their minimum passing score requirement, you can transfer your score between the states that have adopted the uniform bar exam.
Megan Berg 22:14
And that made me realize that when I was looking at all the state licensing requirements, that nobody's listing Praxis scores that need to be achieved, they're just a lot of them are just going off of what Asha will accept as a passing score. But I wonder, too, with the interstate compact, if states are going to have to start just getting a little bit more specific. And rather than being like the CCC or equivalent, they're going to need to say something like, a minimum score of x on the Praxis and a graduate degree from an accredited program that has these classes in it, you know, like, and I think in that sense, they could do a better job than Ash is doing. I mean, they're already meeting the same requirements, that Asha is requiring that they could potentially hold a higher standard, and like we've talked about introduce tracks or pathways to get licensed for specific settings.
Jeanette Benigas 23:17
I think that's a change. So when I took the Praxis just age myself here, 17 years ago, states were listing scores. So when I took it, I failed for Ohio by five points. But I passed for Pennsylvania, because the score, and it probably changed when the practice itself changed. So the practice somewhere along the way changed. And even the reporting that universities get back from student outcomes changed. So that all of that was probably removed from licensure when the practice changed, and it was probably not added back in, in many states. But prior to that, at least in Ohio, and in Pennsylvania, there were there were passing score requirements.
Megan Berg 24:13
Yeah, and it could be that, um, I just wasn't paying close enough attention, but I feel like that would be a detail that I would have seen, and started to wonder about. So that's interesting. But there you go, like, attorneys who I think I mean, I'm gonna say this, and then there will be a lot of people who disagree, but like they're held to a pretty high standard, like passing the bar is no joke. And so if that's the only thing that's regulating them and the state license, like why isn't that good enough? For SLPs? Right, but but again, that speaks to the fact that paying $225 A year does not It's not adding competency. It's just cost Cygnus money. Yeah. Okay, so this next one is Ingrid, who is a pastor. My
Speaker 5 25:08
name is Ingrid, I am an ordained pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. I am not licensed by my state, I do belong to a national association, where I am expected to stay in good standing by turning in yearly reports by doing particular continuing education requirements, specifically boundaries, training, things of that nature. I do not have a state association that I am a part of, but I have a regional body that I am a part of, as a part of my profession. I do not purchase or do any national certification. Because one does not exist in my occupation.
Jeanette Benigas 26:07
Now, right? Oh, as the daughter of a pastor, hey, that's me, PK. Um, I, he was not Lutheran, he was Methodist. But I am gonna take some assumptions here, those things that she is a part of. So that national organization and then her regional organization, those are free. She's not paying to be a part of those. So probably that national organization is, I don't know, does she get to pick what churches I think I think she does interview and then pick what church she gets to be a part of.
Megan Berg 26:48
Almost I mean, there's a whole process. Yeah, seems like Yeah,
Jeanette Benigas 26:51
but not in the Methodist Church, that regional organization, the bishop places you. So you don't get to pick where you live? Or where where you work you every so many years, you get moved to a different part in the region. But I think in the Lutheran church, there's interviews and that
Unknown Speaker 27:12
those rebels,
Jeanette Benigas 27:14
this church chooses, yeah, so to be to be a Lutheran pastor, you probably have to be part of that national organization, you're likely not paying into that. And then locally, also, you're not paying into that. Lutherans out there, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm, I'm if I were a betting gal, you know, the, the Methodist Church was founded on not drinking and not gambling. So I am not a betting gal. But I will have a beverage. If I were betting I would bet that those things are free.
Megan Berg 27:49
We'll just, I mean, it'd be interesting to have asked all of these people who if they do pay a national association, like how much they're paying,
Jeanette Benigas 27:58
I did ask a couple. So we haven't gotten to them yet. But I have information on a couple of people, I think, or at least one.
Megan Berg 28:07
Yeah. And again, that also gets to like if you ask Asha, they, they pretty much see certification and membership as one in the same. And I think I think a lot of staff at ASHA are confused by SLP has been so frustrated with that, because they're like, what's the big deal? Like? Just if you're gonna join, like, just get the certificate? Like, you have to have both anyway, if you're going to be associated with Asha. Yeah, unless you want to pay for just the certification without the membership. But why would you do that when you buy journal access and whatever? 20 or whatever dollars,
Jeanette Benigas 28:45
there's so much value there.
Megan Berg 28:48
So much. Okay, Jamie,
Jeanette Benigas 28:51
why don't one of our fearless fixers where she did call to let go, like to keep her C's but not do the membership? And she did get the speech? I know, we talked to like, they just No, no, this one it was like guilt city and one of their points was, but then you won't qualify for the lifetime membership. Because you have to have so many consecutive years, which I think it's like 25 consecutive years, or 30 years total. And she was like, no thanks. And she's still like, she's like, they really like tried to kill me.
Megan Berg 29:31
Do that. Have you have you watched the Netflix series with the money guy? I can't remember his name. He's very trendy right now. But he it's like a limited series and he works with people to create budgets and talk about their relationship with money and their money habits and all this stuff. And there's there's an episode in there with someone who's involved with net quote network marketing, which is basically a pyramid scheme. multilevel marketing blah, blah that we've talked about. And I learned that like the Cadillac, she was like one of those where you could get a camera. Okay, that's Mary Kay. Yeah, well, okay, well, this wasn't Mary Kay. But this was like the Cadillac was held over their heads as like a reward. But I learned that they don't actually give you a catwalk and this organization. And maybe it with Mary Kay, because you're, you're shaking your head, but like, they'll give you cash towards the payment of the car, and then you have to make up the rest of it. Right, and then you're stuck with this car payment, or do we want to begin with? Oh, yeah, bliss? Yes,
Jeanette Benigas 30:40
that's yeah. And then that's, you
Megan Berg 30:41
don't have to keep it.
Jeanette Benigas 30:42
I did get sucked into Mary Kay, when I was in grad school, because I needed some hustle for some extra money. And that's how it worked. It was a lease. And then give it back after what however much time Yeah.
Megan Berg 30:58
Anyway, I mean, yeah, if you'd if you're not a member, you wouldn't qualify for the ACE award. That ace award, I'm sure they have a whole list of things that you wouldn't get, like the pink Cadillac,
Jeanette Benigas 31:11
you wouldn't get that lifetime. And I mean, so I started this conversation with this spiritless fixer. And I said, I just don't get the lifetime membership. Why would you want to continue to pay into something that you're no longer practicing in? But then I did have to take a step back, like 1000 foot view? Again, it's the same older clinicians who really did work hard for the CCC and, and the CCC did mean something to them. And I think we need to continue to honor that and not like, you know, diss it, because it it was it was important it was and we don't diminish that at all. So I could see how it is important for those people to maintain their CCC and or maintain membership. And I said to this person, I have to wonder if in the next 20 years, this like lifetime membership, I don't know how many people have it right now. I have to wonder if it will go away because people just aren't purchasing the product.
Megan Berg 32:09
Right? Why would that? Yeah. I mean, it is a generational thing because like we're talking about an Instagram like the the roots of Asha, the beginnings of Asha, or basically a group of men who wanted to create as exclusive of a scientific society as they possibly could, like it was so exclusive, that they only allowed five new members a year. So can you imagine like applying to like get to be part of Asha, like if you were chosen? You were one of five people per year? Yeah. And then in 1952, they were like, oh, you know, we'll make a personnel SLP certification. So that, you know, the rest of them can come in and like, I'm sure like, we've all seen scarcity, marketing, like, we know how it makes us feel. And like, we really want to like wait in line, like be the first there to get this exclusive thing that we've been left out of for decades. Right. And like, that's that generation.
Jeanette Benigas 33:13
Yeah, I always think about this. I mean, so many stars had to align. But my mother, God bless her. When I graduated from high school, she bought me a lifetime membership to the Girl Scouts of the USA now. Wow, I wish it was like, all these years ago, it was like four or 500 bucks. So back then that was a lot of money. And I I hadn't even I was still registering every year because I like to volunteer at the summer camps and help and work at those. But other than that, I wasn't really even involved. But she felt like it was so important because she had been a Girl Scout and so she got it for me. And her like comment was, well if you ever have a daughter someday then it's taken care of. I mean, there are a lot of assumptions there like number one that I'm gonna want to have kids. Number two that if I want to have kids, I'm actually able to have them number three, if that all happens that it's going to be a girl number four, that then that girl will want to be in Girl Scouts and then five that I have the time and ability to lead a troop. Now I am leading sure you are doing we are amazing. But I mean a lot truly a lot had to line up for all of that to happen and I have always thought what a frickin waste of money. I mean, it's it is benefiting me. Now I've done the math if I keep this troupe until she graduates it will have saved me a significant portion of money. $25 a year to be exact They don't raise the price. But yeah, like what a like, What a racket, because how many people buy that, that never do anything again after the age of 18? Yeah, it's what I always think about when I think about the lifetime membership is like my lifetime membership of Girl Scouts. Maybe someday I'll have a granddaughter, so she volunteers with our troops, she has to pay to register every year. So maybe that like if the stars continue to align? I'll have a grandchild someday involved in Girl Scouts, and I can go to the meetings for free. I don't like kids, by the way.
Megan Berg 35:44
Okay, are you okay? This is Jamie, who's a nurse.
Speaker 6 35:48
Hi, my name is Jamie. I'm a registered nurse in the state of Ohio, I'm licensed by the state of Ohio. By exam. I do belong to the National Association, which is the American Nursing Association, that membership runs about $50 a year. I do not belong to the the Ohio nurses associations, or association, there's different rates for union versus non union members, they play a lot of they, they participate in a lot of collective bargaining and my hospital that I work at is non union. So and I don't do a lot with legislation and have much time from a personal standpoint to, you know, be the voice of change on the legal aspect of it. So I do not participate in the Ohio Nurses Association. And I do have a national certification. I obtained that because the institution that I worked for initially paid for the exam, which was $395. And I maintain that licensure every five years, it is $375. And you have to have a certain level of continuing education credits for to maintain that, I believe it shows that I have specialization in the area that I practiced. And it helps, you know, give my patients the confidence that I am highly trained in my service. Because there's so many different areas of nursing that you can be part of. So to know that your nurses specialized in the area that they are taking care of you helps bring a certain level of competence to the patient.
Jeanette Benigas 37:32
So if we want to compare that to our national certification, number one, she's paying $75 a year for it. So there's that. But again, number two, it's a specialized certification. So it's not like this General Certificate of clinical competency that we're all paying in to, to say that we are, you know, across the scope that were competent. So hers is very practice specific. And you can get a bunch of those. So we've talked about that, right? Like, you get the degree and then you specialize or go off on a track that sort of that sort of like what she's talking about. And so, you know, it's a national certification product, but it is super specialized into the area of nursing that she's in. And by the way, she's my co Girl Scout leader, not a lifetime member. So she's spending a lot of money every year on all these things.
Megan Berg 38:33
But so, and I've, I mean, nursing is so interesting to me, because it's all over the place. Like it just depends on where you are. And like if you're working for a for profit or nonprofit if you have a union, if you don't have what the union statuses, but I've also heard from nurses that a lot of times employers will cover the cost of those certifications because they want you know, they're short staffed and they weren't people with credentials, so that they'll pay for it. I
Jeanette Benigas 39:04
thought it was interesting that she said that they initially paid for it and now that they don't so she maintains it on her own. Her hospital system got bought out by a different system. So I have to wonder if when she got that cuz she's been with this hospital for a very long time. She's actually the nurse manager she like runs the place. So she's worked her way up quite a bit. I have to wonder if just when she got it and when it was paid for it was by the previous corporate members and that the new one does not compensate them for that. Yeah. But they are trying to get nurse practitioner right now. She's in school. They are paying for that. Wow. Certification.
Megan Berg 39:52
Yeah, just a whole
Jeanette Benigas 39:54
degree. Yeah, she and she's smart. You have to give like so much time after or they give you the money for school. And so she kind of did the math, she's not entirely sure if she wants to stay with them after she graduates. So she took the money from the beginning of the program. So like the first year, she took the money because I think it's like 18 months, you have to stay or something. So she took the money, and it was paid for at the beginning, but then she stopped taking the money, so she won't be tied up with them by the time the program's over. And I was like, that was Jim, that was genius. Good for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Megan Berg 40:35
Okay, this is Jim, an architect.
Speaker 7 40:40
Hello, my name is Jim. And I am a retired architect. I was licensed by my state, in actually two other adjoining states. I did belong to the National Association, which was the American Institute of Architects and did belong to that, primarily because it was the culture of our firm. We were strong supporters of both the national and state level of the American Institute of Architects, also the annual conferences, so we felt were valuable, both the speakers and learning content, but also access and to be able to see the design competitions and awards. And then thirdly, the access to contract and construction related documents was a big benefit is we used quite a bit of those. I did belong to my state association, as well, and that I'd say was primarily a promotional thing, that collectively, the state organization did a good job of promoting the profession, locally, and within the state. Also, it was a strong group that organized and, and, and we participated in state and regional design competitions. So we were able to do that or locally. I did purchase national certification. I would say that that was primarily because at least in the work that we were doing, or I was doing professionally, it was an indication of credibility with clients. Clients, or our clients, which were primarily institutional clients had an expectation that they were working with licensed design professionals.
Megan Berg 42:42
So that is my dad. And he is what we affectionately call a boomer. And I will say that if you go on social media, the exact same conversation is happening about AIA, and architects being fed up having to pay for the AIA certification, as SLPs are fed up having to pay for Asha certification. And so, again, I mean, I just I think a lot of this is a generational thing. And millennials, Gen Z, Gen. Y is that next one, that
Jeanette Benigas 43:18
about? What about Gen
Megan Berg 43:20
X? Okay, yeah, we'll start with Gen X, millennials, Gen Z and Gen. Y, Gen Z, and the alphas that are in daycare right now. Like, I think we're all just realizing that these systems were built by people who wanted to maintain control, and like our country, in our world is just kind of going through this sort of conversation and dialogue around like, are those systems still serving us? And is that really how we want to move forward? And especially when these organizations are making millions of dollars off of these certifications, and like, conflating themselves as certification, like selling a certification product, and then also being a membership association. It's like, it's really hard to advocate for your professional members, and control them at the same time. And like, it just it doesn't make sense. But I think for the baby boomer generation, it's just a more comfortable position to be in and like they, I think, from what I can tell, that generation in general, not everybody, but in general, they feel more respected when they're aligned with a larger organization. And I think that younger generations just don't feel that and we're, we expect a lot more accountability and transparency, and we're just not getting that. So
Jeanette Benigas 44:56
I think it's very well put no notes I Great. Okay, moving
Megan Berg 45:01
on to Katie, who is a respiratory therapist.
Speaker 8 45:06
My name is Katie. I am a respiratory therapist. I do belong to my national association because it is a requirement to practice in my field. I do belong to my state association because it is required of me to practice respiratory therapy in my state. I do purchase a national certification because all employers require it.
Jeanette Benigas 45:26
Yeah. So I got the numbers in front of me. Talk to caterers. So that national certification purchase, there are different levels. And you get things with those levels? Because we really, yes, so she, so there is the print level. And at the print level, I believe she is getting one journal in print $90 a year. And then there's the the one plus one level where she's getting journal access via the World Wide Web. Plus, maybe that's just it anyway, 8425, a year 84 versus our 225. And they do have free CEU offerings regularly because she she said, Well, it does help with my CEUs. And I said, well tell me what that means. So they get CEUs. And they track them as part of that cost. So, Asha, if you want to be a part of the ASHA CEU registry, it's $28 a year. They have that for her. It's included in that cost. Yeah. So it's it's required in her state, or it's required to practice but there again, this is what SLPs are screaming, if we saw value in this, yeah, we would pay it. And she does see value. She doesn't feel any kind of way about, I mean, at 90 bucks a month. And she's I don't think she gets the journal in the mail. So 80 or, yeah, 85 bucks a year, okay, you're tracking my CPU. So I don't need to do that. You're giving me CPUs for free, or at least some of them. So I don't need to do that. You know, it's, I'm getting the journal access, okay. Like, to me, that seems like a valuable thing. So it is required, but they're getting there, there's a return on that investment.
Megan Berg 47:35
Yeah, my brother sent me a photo of his respiratory therapy National Certificate, like he's very proud of it. And I think they all feel like they work hard for it. And it means something to them. And my brother pays, he was telling me, I'm not going to get this perfectly, right. So if it's wrong, just know that I know it's wrong, but it's somewhere in the ballpark of like $25, every two years for his Colorado state license. So like, all up, it's a very affordable way to maintain your credibility as a respiratory therapist, which is a younger field. And you know, they're kind of in our same boat, or they're trying to establish who they are in the medical system in particular. But I would also say that, like, they just, they have an association who's doing a great job advocating for them, and communicating the value but respiratory therapists bring,
Jeanette Benigas 48:29
this is going to be so naive of me, I probably shouldn't say it. And I hope Katie's not listening because she'll yell, I would imagine their scope of practice is not as broad as ours. The lungs are the lungs are the lungs, and they have certain therapies and drugs and machines that they need to know everything about. I feel like some of that level of knowledge is like insanely good, so smart, but not as broad. And so if it in terms of advocacy, there's less to advocate for so you can pound it so hard. in speech pathology, it's like caseload workload, productivity, billing codes.
Megan Berg 49:19
Hospitals, home health, like Yeah, and it's way too broad. There's no way.
Jeanette Benigas 49:23
I don't know this is respiratory, like an adjunctive. Service. Do they have CPT codes and billing codes? Like nursing?
Megan Berg 49:36
I don't know this, but I'm going to say yes, because they're administering. They're administering treatments. Okay.
Jeanette Benigas 49:45
Well, nurses administer treatments and they don't have billing codes. Okay,
Megan Berg 49:49
so are we sure about this?
Jeanette Benigas 49:51
I'm almost positive. Because I think Jamie and I have talked about this before I vaguely remember her saying that The hospital can't build for anything we do.
Megan Berg 50:05
I was talking to a nurse here in Missoula, and she was saying she was just floored because the hospital was trying to save money by having nurses put in their own billing codes. Oh, and she was like, that's so unethical. And like, we're not trained to do that.
Jeanette Benigas 50:21
Okay, maybe that's just at her hospital, because I just did a quick little Google. And it came up Ohio stuff, a visit conducted by an RN, for the provision of PDN. Services must be billed to Ohio Medicaid using a TD modifier. So it looks like there is some billing.
Megan Berg 50:41
Yeah, I think maybe as
Jeanette Benigas 50:43
a nurse manager, I maybe as what he does, nothing's billable. Maybe that's what she meant. Oh, maybe she's running around.
Megan Berg 50:50
I think, again, it's different in every place. But like SLPs will put in billing codes, right? Yeah, so so that's why like, when my nurse friend was like, floored about this, I was like, Well, we do that all the time. Like, what are you so worried about? But I think it probably gets a lot more complicated with nursing billing codes.
Jeanette Benigas 51:10
Yeah, probably.
Megan Berg 51:13
Did you have a thought about respiratory therapists and billing codes?
Jeanette Benigas 51:17
No, I just wondered, and wondered if there was like advocacy at that level in terms of like, encroachment and who gets to build their codes and what they're billing for? I mean, because we just have all we have all of these issues that are so broad, and they're doing such a good job. But I just think it's probably less. And that's not an excuse for Asha not to be doing that for us. But I could see how they're more effective. Yeah.
Megan Berg 51:44
It's also like, I mean, there's maybe like, when I hear my brother talk about the money that he makes, I'm like, why would anybody get like, why would anyone take the time and money to get a master's in speech pathology, when you can pretty much make the same or more with an associate's degree in Respiratory Therapy, because there's such a shortage. And it's a real shortage. It's not like the, quote, shortage of SLPs that exists, only because employers are undervaluing them and like posting these horrible salary rates. There's a real shortage and like, so he'll get like a $700 bonus for covering a shift and like stuff like that just doesn't happen for SLPs. And so if anybody's listening to this, and they're considering a career in speech pathology, check out Respiratory Therapy.
Jeanette Benigas 52:39
Yeah, that was insane. comittee times. Just Jamie, Katie and I, so my RN friend, Katie, the respiratory therapist, and myself have all been best friends since we were three. And so we have had an ongoing group chat for many, many, many years. And just listening to the boatloads of money they were making during COVID was, I mean, I almost jumped ship them, like, maybe this is time for me to go back to school because it was in sane, insane how much money and obviously, they were dealing with way more than we were dealing with, right? Yeah, we weren't proning people and, you know, choosing who gets the trigger the event and who doesn't get? Yeah, I mean, that's Jamie was literally stalking bodies in a morgue, you know, awful, awful, awful, awful, awful things. So they were being paid for their work. But man, did I choose wrong? As every year I just keep getting pay cuts.
Megan Berg 53:43
Yeah, and imagine if we had a national association that really differentiated the roles of SLP. So they could better advocate. Or if we just had separate associations, if we had a medical speech pathology association that could just like go after these things, we can just get it done as far as embarrassment rates, and helping hospitals understand the value of the SLP renaming that part of the profession, like oh my gosh, like it's, I just feel like we're so stuck. We're stuck in 1925 by these assholes, basically, that founded the association that were super elitist, tried to keep everybody out. And then in the team 52 or whatever, they're like, Okay, you can come in, but we're gonna differentiate you like it's just like, we're just stuck. And we're stuck there because we're all continuing to pay Asha when it's like there are so many different ways we could be doing this and I hope anybody listening like if you want to start an association, do it like, if you want to come up with an alternative way and get SLPs on board, like there's nobody stopping anybody from taking attention and power and money away from it. There's no Asha, there's no guarantee that Asha is going to stay in its place and continue to sort of rule the roost of SLP. They're not entitled to that position, even though they think they are. So we are going to move on to Mary, who is a physician's assistant.
Speaker 2 55:23
My name is Mary. I'm a physician assistant, I am currently certified in both my state as well as nationally as it is required to practice. In my profession. I do belong to our national organization as they offer continuing education units, as well as discounts on educational seminars, as well as updates on the current status of the profession. I am not currently a member of our state organization, but I am planning on joining in January for similar reasons for the national organization. So
Jeanette Benigas 55:56
Mary, also, she wasn't completely transparent. Mary is moving to academia in January, it just so happens to where I work, which is crazy, because I've met Mary started as an athletic trainer when I played basketball in high school and is just randomly now, moving into academia. So anyway, that is why she has to join in January, because it's required in academia, just like the CCC is required for me. But watching this physician's assistant program, operate in terms of their accreditation standards, is freaking insane. That program is on probation now, because they and not because the educators aren't good. But because for accreditation, they even have specifics of who can be employed. So the chair of the program has to have certain qualifications and meet certain standards to even chair a program. And that's where they were, that's where they were deficient. And that was their area of deficiencies. So they didn't, you know, they're they're a candidacy program, basically, like we would have. And so that's why they're sort of on this probation, because the chair that they had left, and then they couldn't find just like speech pathology, you know, there's a lack of these PhDs, they couldn't find someone to fill the position, and it's filled now, and they'll be fine. But that's why she's enjoying it. That's why she's joining in January. But again, some free CPUs there, there's some value. And I don't think she said this, I think when we were talking, they have to retake their boards every 10 years. So every 10 years, they have to retest, which I am, their national certification isn't like a praxis, they control that board exam that is administered, they administered the board exam. So
Megan Berg 57:56
that sounds a lot like the American Academy of doctors and surgeons in their and they tried to start a lawsuit to push back against that, and basically say that these tests were poorly written. And people were having to spend a lot of time away from their families away from their jobs, quote, studying for these tests. And it was really just a measure of how well they could take this test versus if that actually applied to their clinical skills. And so I imagine that maybe the physician's assistant world probably tends to align a little bit more with what's going on with doctors. But it sounds like that is not a perfect system at all, because you have a conflict of interest where, like, if you want to be a pediatrician, you have to be board certified in pediatrics, and you have to pay to take this exam. And it sounds really good, because it's like, oh, we're making sure that these people are competent, and they have to retake the test every so many years. But in reality, the doctors are saying that the test is poorly written and doesn't actually, you know, equate to good clinical skills. So maybe it's a similar situation there. It's hard to tell. But I think, you know, one thing that one move that Asha could make in response to this or other criticisms is to start requiring the pressing Praxis every few years. And then I think all that would do is spark a conversation about how poorly written the practice is and like you shouldn't have somebody who's specializing in autism have to take a full scope, certification test every however many years and then that would get us into a conversation about specializing in specialist licensing and that's kind of the conversation that we're wanting to have. Anyway, and I think we should do it without Asha, because ASHA has not demonstrated the ability to do these things very effectively. Did you have any more thoughts tonight, I was talking a lot because Jeanette was moving around in her house to find a new location. So I'm just gonna keep talking, or no,
Jeanette Benigas 1:00:20
we're running over. And again, in the last episode, I said, you know, we're not running a fortune 500 company, we're doing this in the middle of life. So my daughter is, in fact, starting voice lessons directly above me. So I will try to stay on mute. I don't know what this microphone is gonna pick up. But um, I just asked Google if physician's assistants specialize. And it does look like they have the ability to specialize in one or several areas. So that I don't know how that test works and how well written it is, like you said, but I have to wonder too, then if it changes based on specialization, or if it's a general across the scope type of test, like the Praxis and Asha could absolutely just write and administer their own test. Before pedes, or for health care, you know, again, yeah, I
Megan Berg 1:01:17
don't know how the national testing services company got involved. But that's where it is.
Jeanette Benigas 1:01:24
I have to wonder, again, speculation. The practice administers the test for teachers. Yeah. Is that how we got in up up in that with you know, starting as mostly people and teacher salaries who worked in the schools? Yeah. Was that why and it just snowballed from there. And we're
Megan Berg 1:01:47
still I mean, yeah, Titan are still there. I was like, a time warp this field. Yeah. It's like, oh, progress, progress at all, and no progress. Duck.
Jeanette Benigas 1:01:57
What other professions? Do we even know this? What other professions take the practice other than teachers and speech pathologists a lot. Right. It's all I know, there's a lot of practice tests, but they're, I think they're all at least a lot of them are education based. And based on how, you know, our UK to Australia.
Megan Berg 1:02:17
Yeah, so I guess these are all teacher topics. So agriculture, algebra, our biology, business, education, chemistry, Chinese communication and literacy, computer science. I mean, it's like a very, very, very good English. Teacher, yeah. And then you just
Jeanette Benigas 1:02:36
stick speech pathology in there. That's how we got tied up in this and Asha just won't move on. For the love. Let's fix SLP.
Megan Berg 1:02:46
Okay, we're gonna talk to an occupational therapist named Megan.
Speaker 3 1:02:52
Hi, my name is Megan. And I'm an occupational therapist licensed in Ohio. I do not belong to my national or my state association, because I don't see a lot of value in them. Especially for the cost, I don't believe they are very supportive. And I do purchase the national certification. And mostly that is because it just wasn't explained to me in school. It just was in assumed this is what I'm supposed to do. And I'm now realizing that I do not need to maintain that national NBCOT in order to practice in my State of Ohio, only for initial licensure. So I'm maybe dropping it.
Megan Berg 1:03:44
So OT is interesting, because they have the American Occupational Therapy Association Association, AOTA and then they have the National Board Certification in occupational therapy, NBCOT. Those two are separate. They have nothing really to do with each other. Some OTs comment that they compete with each other, which is healthy. And the NBCOT T certification is required to get an initial state license in a lot of different states. And then it gets a little murky and confusing if the state requires somebody to keep an active certification. But the difference with NBCOT certification is that it's $65 Every three years to renew and they don't have to retake a test or anything. They do have to demonstrate continuing education completion, but $65 every three years and so I think that's why a lot of OTS hang on to it is because it's relatively cheap and then they don't have to worry about like if an employer wants it or if a state licensing board wants it and they have to move to a new state. I also got a text from Johnny he didn't have time to To record but he said I am an Occupational Therapist, he's licensed in his state, he does belong to his national to AOTA because he believes in sharing his opinion and contributing to task forces and utilizing the evidence based content that they do provide for their members. And he also belongs to his state association, because he's seen the advocacy efforts and wants to provide additional support. And then he also maintains his NBCOT certification, because he's proud of it. And he's seen their efforts firsthand through experience volunteering with them to hold ot professional to high standards. However, he says all of his employers have reimburse for its renewal. And then I will also add that this OT is in academia. And so I think we see a similar thing in OT, where you have academic OTs being like, yeah, it's wonderful, I see so much value, it's all advocacy, blah, blah, blah. And then practicing OTs are like, I don't, I don't get any value from it. So. And again, it's because just schedule wise logistically, academic therapists just have more time to participate in these associations. And that's great, like they should. And that's wonderful. But it shouldn't be a situation where then all of the therapists who don't have time to spend to be a part of that are forced to pay. And that's not the case with a OTA, their, their membership is quite a bit lower than Asha, because it's completely optional. i
Jeanette Benigas 1:06:34
Before we move on to the next one, I just I had a thought I had something I wanted to say about Bethany, who was our first one, and it came to me as you were talking, I forgot to say that Bethany, who if you remember, she was the counselor who really isn't a member of anything. She told me that she used to be a member of her national organization, when she first entered the field, but once it expired, she didn't continue it for long. And I said, Did you join because it was something that your graduate program pushed on you. And she said, Yes, she said, they they push it, they like touted the value of it. And then I didn't actually see the value once I was in the field. So very similar to speech. And I wanted to, as I was thinking and getting ready for this, I wanted to mention, too, that I think it is ludicrous that we have a student rate for our students to become misled national misled members. They shouldn't be free, you should be free. And it's such a racket because I am a Nyssa advisor. So I am intimately familiar with what is required. So Nissley gives the bronze, the silver and the gold award. And it's it's an honor because these students work hard to do philanthropy and fundraising and advocacy and all of the things that they need to do to earn these awards are good. Except I have a problem for if you want the gold award, it is a $200 donation that the chapter has to make to the scholarship fund. That's how they they make Asha makes money for their scholarship fund off of our students who are working so hard to earn these awards. And I won't say when because anybody who does the work can earn the award. But also to get that award, there has to be a certain percentage of your Nyssa members because you can be a Nyssa chapter without having your students in national misled. You don't have to be affiliated you can have Vanessa chapter they don't have to join national NIS law. But if you want to earn the bronze gold or silver award, you have to affiliate so every year I have to re affiliate and fill out paperwork. And then a certain percentage of your membership has to be paying to be part of National Tesla, including including your exec board or or members from the exec board. So we have a mix an undergrad and grad Missler chapter and our department pays for our grad students to be mislim members but not the undergrads. So all of the all of the students who are officers for RNs law chapter who are undergrads, we then have to pay for them to so our students can earn this they last year was like, the first year we were active and established. They earned the gold award. But at last minute I was getting these these undergrads registered and we had to make that $200 donation and I just think it's a racket We should be letting them in for free as we introduce them to our field. That is all I have to say about that. And they
Megan Berg 1:10:05
do the gift to the grad. I don't know if they're still doing that, doing that or calling it that. But like you have to pay for your initial membership, your entire grad school career, and then you get like a lousy discount. It's
Jeanette Benigas 1:10:17
two years. So you have to be a national mislim member for two years. And then yes, you get a discount. And I've seen a lot of conversation about this on socials right now. Because there I think there's a cut off. So if you, if you start your CF, and you finish, you pay, it's five, I think it's $515. You pay, you pay that that like before a certain point, then you do have to renew right now when the rest of us are renewing. And then if it's after a certain point, like I think if it's after May, or June or July or something, then you don't have to renew right now. So it's slightly prorated, but it's not. I don't know, it's, it's hard for these new grads who are paying that and now renewing for 225. They're not getting a full year for that 515. Yeah. And I don't know if that is with or without the discount. But what I mean, man, they are preying on these not kids, these students right from the beginning, that you have to pay into this love for two years to get this discount, well, what is the discount, maybe they should have just saved the money and paid and then to to like get this award that they are doing so many good things to earn.
Megan Berg 1:11:36
You got to don't erase these should just you should just make your own award. Like if it's just putting it on a resume, just making a word again.
Jeanette Benigas 1:11:45
We can advertise that as a gold chapter for students to come apply to our programs. Anybody
Megan Berg 1:11:53
care? Does anybody even know initial is like?
Jeanette Benigas 1:11:58
I don't know. I mean, I guess undergrads would if they're involved at that,
Megan Berg 1:12:02
you can also advertise that you have an awards program. I don't know. Like, you know,
Jeanette Benigas 1:12:07
my students do a great job. I love them. They're, they're wonderful, but it makes me mad that as their funding, you know, money is already so hard at the university level. So as they are as they are working hard to fundraise and earn money and have money to go to things like our state convention or if they want to go to Asha, you know, that, like that extra $200 is just one more step they have to take. And thank goodness, our university covers the cost of national Nyssa. But when I was in school, we had to pay for it ourselves. Not every university is doing that for them in no way for their students. So you know, it's just one more burden and again, it becomes an accessibility issue. Not every student has that kind of money. No, yeah. It's another racket that I soapbox I needed
Megan Berg 1:13:04
to get on board just grooming people for this systemically what
Jeanette Benigas 1:13:08
we're doing and that's I wanted to say all of this with Bethany at the beginning, but I my my brain doesn't always we weren't in the rhythm. Yeah, no, I wasn't. I was not yelling yet into the microphone. Yeah. Okay, I'm done. Okay.
Megan Berg 1:13:23
Okay, we talked to or we heard from to OTs, now we're going to hear from a physical therapist. My name
Speaker 11 1:13:29
is Troy Adam, and I'm a physical therapist. I'm licensed in the state of Montana, and I am a member of the American Physical Therapy Association, as well as the Montana chapter. I choose to continually be a member because of the advocacy that they do for my profession as a whole. And because of the benefits that I receive as a member. I am also a board certified neurologic specialist. I do this to demonstrate my expertise in the field of neurology, both to my patients, my employer, as well as other health care providers.
Megan Berg 1:14:10
So PT is interesting because, like on the homepage of the APTA website, they say this is an optional membership association. And like it truly is, and what I've learned is like, people tend to have very strong feelings about Asha one way or the other. OTs have strong feelings about a OTA one way or the other. APTA Oh, there's like a lot of ambivalence. There's like I could, I could join it, I could leave it i They don't hate it. They don't love it. Like it's just there. And I would say that APTA has done a lot to advocate for the field of physical therapy. I think it's part of why there's a physical therapy clinic on every corner of every town. You and they are prepared to run businesses, they're prepared to understand insurance and how that works. They're prepared to advocate for themselves. Everybody knows what a physical therapist does, like they don't have a lot of the sort of image barriers that especially speech therapists have. Because we're still using the names of speech therapists from 1927.
Jeanette Benigas 1:15:26
Which isn't even our name, we are speech language pathologists, that is our actual neither,
Megan Berg 1:15:31
we're not either one is bad. I know we might disagree, but I just I, oh, I
Jeanette Benigas 1:15:36
don't disagree with you. But I'm saying we accept the name speech therapists. And that's not even what we actually are. Like they, they have less than they abolished that a long time ago, they actually did advocate for a name change to something equally as awful. And that's where
Megan Berg 1:15:56
I mean, Pts have wonderful names. They have physical therapy, or physiotherapy, like those are both great. And the I will also say about Troy, he is he's a supervisor at the university clinics, there's a university tie there, which might be why he's a member. Yeah, I'm a VP TA. And then I've met other PTS, who just they're not members, but I do think a lot of PTS by they purchase the certifications, that APTA cells. In the way that APTA does that. You could, you could say that it's a little bit Asha II, in the sense that they've now created like, I'm not gonna get this, right, but it's a handful, it's like a dozen of these specialty certifications. And it's a similar kind of thing where you have to, like, take so many hours of continuing education and an exam and all this stuff. And then you get that's why PTS have like 5 million letters after their names because they're buying all these certifications from a PTA. But I will say it's one way that physical therapists have found to differentiate their specialties in a more uniform way.
Jeanette Benigas 1:17:17
Another way, another thing that they have done and I their tracks aren't split at the beginning. But that d p t that they added, I believe that extra year that was added on to make it a doctorate program, instead of a master's program was where they start to specialize. So I think it's a year of more specific clinical work in the area that they're going to go into. I could be wrong, but I'm almost positive that it's like that. And as a consumer, as a consumer, I just had the worst case of B PP V. Vertigo with the issues with the crystals in my ears. And I specifically sought out a vestibular physical therapist. So you know, as a consumer, I was looking for that I wasn't just going to go to any physical therapist. I needed i i and maybe maybe I could have but it was important to me to go to someone who was going to get me well as quickly as possible. So I could get back to work because I couldn't drive i i was getting sick. It was awful. So they're doing something right.
Megan Berg 1:18:31
Yeah. And, and just so people are aware, Asha, this, this is the model that Asha is looking at adopting basically is like they're going to be selling the specialty certifications. There's a separate board. Just looking at
Jeanette Benigas 1:18:55
telling them they're going to be endorsing people who sell them, they're not creating these certifications, they're gonna endorse whoever out there selling this stuff.
Megan Berg 1:19:07
That's right. It's gonna be more than they get exclusive right? Or model. Yeah,
Jeanette Benigas 1:19:11
they're gonna get exclusive rights for 18 months. So no one else can sell that Asha, whatever sort of this is dangerous, you guys, this thing coming is dangerous. And I don't know how to stop it. If somebody has some ideas. Come on down, because this is going to hurt us. Yeah, you think you're paying too much money now people start getting this crap. Then in 1015 20 years when everybody has like thought, oh, this will add this will get me the job. This will get me the thing. Employers aren't gonna know the difference. And so they are going to start looking for these people who have these certifications that are Asha approved. And in 15 years we're going to find ourselves have Trying to pay $9,000 for a special certification that ASHA has endorsed and given exclusive rights to every 18 months. It's read about it, folks. It's coming and it's it's not good. It's not good.
Megan Berg 1:20:16
Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad you clarified that because that is a very different model. I mean, APTA has the American Board of physical therapy, special teas, something like that abt pts. And they're the ones that regulate these certifications. And I mean, again, you'll find physical therapists that have lots of different opinions about this, but I think on the whole, it was sort of like a PTA was responding to a need. And trying to do it as ethically as possible. I will also say that a PTA like when I was trying to get therapy insight, it's a able to provide speech, occupational and physical therapy, continuing education, I could become a CPE provider with Asha. And I could become a CPE provider with a OTA. But I could not become a CPE provider with APTA because they do not offer a continuing education provider program. And on their website, they were very clear at the time that I was looking that the reason they didn't offer that is because they saw it as the conflict of interest since they also still continuing education. And so what you'll notice is like, if you buy the ASHA learning pass that is sold by ASHA, with ASHA approving the continuing education, they don't have to have a third party looking at and reviewing their continuing education, it's just self stamped approval. Whereas a PTA is like we were not willing to do that. And so a PTA kind of contracts with different state boards, basically to, to approve all their continuing education courses. So for me, personally, I feel like a PTA is just a much more ethical organization. They're much more transparent. They listen to their members more, there's more of a balance, when you look at their board members, there's a balance of academic SLPs and practicing SLPs. And consumers. That's, that's a category that Asha doesn't even have on their board of directors mean
Jeanette Benigas 1:22:24
PTs, you are saying academic SLPs?
Megan Berg 1:22:28
Yeah, sorry, academic pts. Thank you. So there's more of a representation and there's more voices in the room when they're making decisions, whereas Asha is heavily heavily heavily run and influenced by academic SLPs. And again, if you're an academic SLP, and you're feeling that frustration, that we're not recognizing that you do practice, we're not denying that you're a practicing SLP to, but your position as an academic SLP puts you in an elite group and an elite status in this profession. And that's just because of our history and the way things have always been, and it's a cultural value, and it's one that is heavily perpetuated by Asha. Agree. Okay, did we oh, we have one more
Jeanette Benigas 1:23:19
you have Rachel.
Megan Berg 1:23:20
Rachel.
Jeanette Benigas 1:23:21
Do I have things to say about Rachel? All right,
Megan Berg 1:23:25
here we go. Rachel.
Speaker 12 1:23:28
My name is Rachel and I am a dentist. I am licensed in the state of Ohio. In order to practice dentistry, we are required to pass national board exams as well as a regional exam. We are not required to purchase membership into the American Dental Association, or the Ohio Dental Association or our local dental Association's I do opt to purchase membership to all three. Mostly to support my local Dental Society. I don't even think it's an option to only purchase membership into the local dental association. I believe you have to purchase, national, state and local. Being a member of my local dental association gives a sense of community that I found difficult to find in the solo practitioner model that I was practicing in. As far as a state and national level, I sometimes fail to see the benefit of those but supposedly the ADEA and the ODA protects the profession from dental therapists or less sir licensed individuals, and they lobby for insurance reform and more supposedly.
Megan Berg 1:24:56
Okay, what do you have to say the word Have
Jeanette Benigas 1:25:01
you use the word supposedly
Unknown Speaker 1:25:02
twice?
Jeanette Benigas 1:25:03
Sweet Rachel, total boss lady. I mean, she this woman owns, she has bought two dental practices locally, she has two offices. She is amazing. She was very transparent with me. And she has said, and I told her say this on your recording, but she didn't. The only reason she pays into this stuff is because of bills being released that they are, yes, she said they are dying, the state and the national associations are dying as dentists retire. And so you know, I think with this optional model, you know, this is a risk of something happening, you don't force your members to join, it can die. But again, you have to show value. And she was saying supposedly, so she's not seeing the value out of these organizations. However, the main she bought her practice, from who has been a bit of a mentor is heavily involved in the state and national associations, and he is beaming with pride and so proud that she is a member of those associations. She said, I just can't bring myself to like, not be a member. But that it is they're dying, and I feel bad. And he is proud of me. And that that is it. That's fine. That's
Megan Berg 1:26:32
I mean, that's, that's like a smart economic decision, because she's able to purchase a practice that will then give her an income. So
Jeanette Benigas 1:26:45
that's valid again, here. Here's the thing she gets to choose. They're not and that's what we say SLPs should have options you want to join. Do it. Yeah. But you shouldn't have to. And so she has that choice. And I have to wonder if she'll if after this guy is no longer with us, or no longer cognizant enough to know what she's a member of, I have to wonder if she'll continue to pay into it. But for now, that's her choice. Right? That's and if I remember she I swear she threw the number $2,000 To me, but I don't know if that was for all three and if I don't know if that was yearly or set, I don't know. I didn't think to ask her anything further about that. So but I do think it's a little pricier but they're also making more money.
Megan Berg 1:27:38
Yeah. Right. Not Not that I mean, I don't think personally that you should pay more to an association if you're making more like you should pay more to an association that literally costs them more to do their job, but I don't
Jeanette Benigas 1:27:58
or if they're bringing more value, like if they're doing a bunch of things that are making you more money and are helping you as a practitioner. Yeah. Yeah.
Megan Berg 1:28:09
Okay, so we heard from 12 different professionals with 12 different jobs and they all do things differently and anything that was just the conversation we wanted to have today is like just because things are the way they are does not mean that that's where how they always will be or could be or should be. And we just invite SLPs to think outside the box and like question why we're in this system and if it's really working for us
Jeanette Benigas 1:28:44
Oh, yes. I don't have anything to add. I just want to say if you stayed on this long with us, we were trying to keep this under 40 minutes today like what I moved to downstairs for voice lessons. We were supposed to have already been done. So if you made it to the end, we appreciate you and love you and so please go give us that five star review. Clearly you are a super fan.
Megan Berg 1:29:11
Yes. Okay. Yeah.
Jeanette Benigas 1:29:13
You have anything else to say man?
Megan Berg 1:29:15
I don't think so. So keep it all for today. Yeah, keep
Jeanette Benigas 1:29:19
watching our social because there has been more uncovered that will be coming out. We have more things to say. So thank you don't forget to share our content go rate and review and thanks for fixing it. Bye, everybody.
Megan Berg 1:29:44
Everyone, its Megan. I just wanted to add one more recording at the end of this that Jeanette and I didn't have a chance to talk about this recording is from Sarah who's a teacher and I wanted to include it because she does mention National Teacher Certification and And this is relevant for any school based SLPs out there. If you are offered more compensation for having the CCC, it's likely because you're on a teacher pay scale. And somewhere along the line, somebody advocated for a higher compensation for teachers who are certified. And then they had to do the same thing for SLPs. And the cleanest way to do that was through the CCC. And I would argue that SLPs need to get off the teacher pay scales, they need to stop comparing teacher certifications to SLP certifications, because they are not the same thing at all. And really, at the end of the day, SLPs should be compensated for what they're worth. Again, not compared to teachers. My