Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

The secret to building habits that stick.

Whether you want to read more books or exercise more regularly, BJ Fogg has good news. “Habits are easier to form than most people think,” he says, “If you do it in the right way.”

As the founder and director of Stanford's Behavior Design Lab, Fogg has devoted much of his career to researching human psychology, motivation, and behavior. According to him, habit formation isn’t a product of simply doing something over and over again. “It's not a function of repetition,” he says, “it's a function of emotion.”

As Fogg discusses with host Matt Abrahams in this Rethinks episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, bringing our behavior in line with our goals is easier than we think — we just have to know the emotional levers to pull.

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (02:43) - The Information-Action Fallacy
  • (04:26) - The Behavior Model: Motivation, Ability, Prompt
  • (06:06) - Designing a Reading Habit
  • (07:44) - What Is a Habit?
  • (10:53) - Making Paraphrasing a Habit
  • (13:30) - Specificity vs. Repetition
  • (15:49) - Choosing Habits You Enjoy
  • (16:47) - The Final Three Questions
  • (23:45) - Conclusion

 ********
Thank you to our sponsors.  These partnerships support the ongoing production of the podcast, allowing us to bring it to you at no cost.

Strawberry.me. Get 50% off your first coaching session today at Strawberry.me/smart

Join our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community and become the communicator you want to be. 

Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
BJ Fogg
Adjunct Professor at Stanford, Research Lab Director, Author

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Developing good
habits is helpful in communication

and our everyday lives.

When it comes to building habits,
emotion and how you feel matters a lot.

My name is Matt Abrahams and I
teach strategic communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to this Rethinks episode of
Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

We're opening up the vault and resharing
a really insightful conversation I

had with Stanford professor, BJ Foggg.

Listen in to learn how to
create successful habits

no matter how big or small.

Today I am really looking forward
to speaking with BJ Foggg.

BJ is a research associate and adjunct
professor at Stanford University.

He's the founder and director of
the Stanford Behavior Design Lab.

BJ also coaches companies and
executives around the world.

Finally, he's the author of
two great books, Persuasive

Technology and Tiny Habits.

Welcome, BJ.

BJ Fogg: Thank you for inviting me.

I've been looking forward
to talking to you.

Matt Abrahams: Me too.

So let's go ahead and get started.

As many of our listeners know,
I have long been fascinated by

persuasion and behavioral change.

One of the things that first drew me
to your work, BJ, was that you refer

to something called the information
action fallacy, and I believe it's

this fallacy that helped you create
your model of behavior change.

Can you share with us
what this fallacy is?

And then share the three components
of your behavior change model.

BJ Fogg: For decades, maybe longer,
people have assumed that if you just give

people information, it will change their
behavior, and this doesn't work very well.

And so I decided to give this problem a
name, this fallacy name, and that's what

it's called, information action fallacy.

And it goes like this.

If we give people information that
will then change their attitude,

then with attitude change, they
will then change their behavior.

Now those links between
information, attitude change,

that's not a very reliable link.

And even if you can change
somebody's attitude, that doesn't

necessarily change their behavior.

The second part of your question
had to do with the behavior model.

So this came together from in
about 2007, and it is a model

that describes all behavior
types, in all cultures, and so on.

It's a universal model,
and it goes like this.

A behavior happens when three things
come together at the same moment.

One, there's motivation
to do that behavior.

Two, there's ability to behavior.

And three, there's a prompt, something
that says, do this behavior now.

And when all those things come
together, the behavior happens.

And if one, any one of those things
is missing, like there's no motivation

or there's no ability or no prompt,
then the behavior does not happen.

Matt Abrahams: As the father of
two teenage boys, I have certainly

seen the information action
fallacy happen in my own life.

Give them lots of information hoping
they'll change attitudes and we,

we don't see any behavior changed.

In terms of the model, the question
I have is around what is a prompt?

How do you define that prompt?

I get ability, I get motivation.

What does a prompt refer to?

BJ Fogg: And that's an excellent
question, Matt, because I mean, the

idea of ability and motivation being
important has been around for a long time.

You can talk about skill and will,
and so on, which is effectively that.

The breakthrough really was
understanding there has to be a prompt.

A prompt is anything
that says, do this now.

Your phone ringing is a prompt.

Somebody asking you a
question is a prompt to reply.

You looking at an action item
on your to-do list is a prompt.

There are a whole bunch of ways
that we're, we couldn't even

be prompted internally, like
sensing hunger is a prompt.

And what's important about that is we've
gotta make sure for the behaviors we

want, that the prompts happen, and if
we're trying to stop or reduce behaviors,

to minimize or get rid of the prompts.

So you can design for behavior
change simply, in some ways,

by focusing on prompt design.

Matt Abrahams: I see.

So it's finding the prompts that can
trigger the behavior you want, or removing

some of those prompts, to, to get rid of
the behaviors you don't want to invoke.

BJ Fogg: Yeah.

So that's one of the three things,
levers, one of the three things you

have to play around with to get a
behavior happen or not to happen.

And even though it's, you can write
it in three letters, B equals M A P,

it is a, I think, a profound model
that can be used in so many ways.

Matt Abrahams: Can you give us an example
of a way in your coaching or teaching

that can relate to, to the listeners
and things that they, uh, behavior they

might want to change and how they can use
those three levers to accomplish that?

BJ Fogg: Yeah, let's say
that you want to read more.

I mean, we read all the time, like email,
social media, but you wanna read books.

So number one, define
what the behavior is.

Okay, I wanna read this particular book.

Okay, reading more is abstract.

It's not a behavior, it's like an outcome.

So pick a book you actually want to read.

So that's the motivation part.

Don't pick a book you don't want to read.

So that's motivation.

Next, ability.

How do you make it
easier to read that book?

Well, you could get, uh, a paper version
of the book and you could set it right

by a chair that you sit in all the time.

And then the third thing prompt,
what is gonna prompt to remind me, in

this case, the Kindle sitting there.

That is, its prompt right there.

I don't have to put on a to-do list.

I don't have to put on the calendar.

I don't put up a post-it note.

In this case, the object that I need
to read, the Kindle, or maybe the,

the paperback version of a book,
is the thing that will prompt me.

So when you sit down, you see the
book, it's like, oh, I can read now.

And just open up the book,
and continue reading.

Matt Abrahams: Part of what you said
that was really enlightening for me was

that notion of being very specific about
the behavior you, you wanna change.

So it's not just reading in general and,
and I set often lofty goals for myself.

I wanna do more exercise
or, or lose weight.

But it sounds like what I should be doing
is being much more specific and, and

that's, I think, gonna be really helpful.

Unlike my work on behavioral change, which
is focused on how to change other people's

attitudes and behaviors, you focus on
how we can change our own behavior.

The unit of change you
highlight is habits.

Can you define what a habit is and
share some of the maxims that you've

come up with regarding habits?

BJ Fogg: Yeah.

So the way I define habit is it's a
behavior you do quite automatically

without deciding, without deliberating,
without thinking very much.

We have many, many habits, and the
good news here is habits are easier to

form than most people think, if you do
it in the right way, and that's what

my Tiny Habits method is all about.

It just breaks it down.

It's very straightforward and people
can form habits quickly and easily.

Looking at creating habits or any type of
lasting change, I've distilled the keys

to habit formation, or engagement, or
lasting change, down into two statements.

Number one, is help yourself
do what you already want to do.

So notice in that, so you pick
habits you already want to do,

and don't pick habits you don't
wanna do, and help yourself do it.

And you help yourself do it
by making that habit easier.

And there's different
ways to make it easier.

So we're back to ability,
we're back to simplicity.

And you make it, help yourself do
that, by making sure there's a prompt.

So within that one statement that
I call Fogg maxim number one, help

yourself do what you already want to
do, it brings together motivation,

ability, and prompt in that statement.

So that's number one.

Fogg maxim number two is help
yourself feel successful.

And even though that's four words,
that can be challenging to do, but

it is very much worth knowing how to
help, and then learning and developing

the skill, frankly it's a skill, of
helping yourself feel successful.

Because it's that feeling, it's that
emotion of success that wires in habits.

That's what causes a behavior that
you're deliberating, or deciding, or

thinking about, turn into a behavior
you do without thinking or deciding,

a behavior you do quite automatically.

It's emotions that create habits.

And that's why the feeling
of success is so important.

Because when you do a new behavior and
you feel successful, then you shift

it on this continuum of automaticity
and it becomes more automatic.

Matt Abrahams: I think most of us
think of habits as a mental effort,

so the, the role of emotion to
me is really, really intriguing.

And setting us up for success
so we can have that feeling of

success as a reinforcing mechanism,
I think is really, really cool.

BJ Fogg: You said the exact right word.

You, by causing yourself to feel
successful, you are self reinforcing.

And you can do this deliberately.

You don't have to leave that reinforcement
to chance or to other people.

You can self reinforce.

And that's part of the Tiny Habits method,
and we call that approach celebration.

But what you're doing is causing
yourself to feel successful at the

right moment in order to self reinforce
and cause that behavior to become

more likely and more automatic.

Matt Abrahams: That's great.

And, and I've got lots of, of ways
to, to feel really good about some of

the habits I'm trying to, to take on.

I'm gonna reward myself with
my favorite chocolate, I think.

I'd love for you to gimme specific advice
on a habit i'm trying to develop better.

As many of our listeners know, I'm a
big believer in paraphrasing as a way

to validate others' comments and to
validate the accuracy of my understanding.

What advice can you give
me to make paraphrasing a

stronger, better habit for me?

BJ Fogg: So, in other words, what
you want to hear from me is how to

make paraphrasing a stronger habit?

Matt Abrahams: Touché.

Touché.

Yes.

You, you already have this habit, clearly.

BJ Fogg: Okay.

You know.

Um, first of all, get clear.

I mean, you're pretty clear on, of
course you're super clear on this,

Matt, but people listening, it's like,
okay, what does paraphrasing mean?

And then, when somebody says something
to you, have that be the prompt or the

reminder to paraphrase it back to them.

And then, when you do that, and this
is where the reinforcement comes in,

pay attention to how they respond.

And I think of many times, you will
see, if you're talking face to face,

you'll see them light up or you
will be able to say yes, exactly.

Embrace that as a positive result.

In other words, pay
attention to their response.

That will reinforce the
paraphrasing behavior.

So let me paraphrase
that, of myself, again.

Number one, be clear on
what it means to paraphrase.

Number two, know when you're gonna do it.

What is the prompt or cue?

It's after somebody tells you something.

And then after you paraphrase, stay
tuned for that reaction from the

other person and really allow yourself
to feel that positive reaction

that will help create that habit.

Matt Abrahams: That's really helpful.

And the last piece I find most helpful
is I am often so focused on just

making sure I paraphrase that I don't
take the time to actually celebrate

the result of that paraphrasing.

Like, wow, that person really
responded positively, or they

gave me more information as a
response to my paraphrasing.

So, that celebration piece, which,
which clearly I can see would

be reinforcing and incent me and
motivate me to, to paraphrase

even more would be really helpful.

So have that clarity of
what I mean by paraphrasing.

And to me it's really distilling
down what the person is saying,

use their responses, my trigger to
actually initiate the paraphrase.

Then the big one for me is celebrate.

Did I, did I paraphrase
that okay, Okay, how'd I do?

BJ Fogg: I thought that was great.

Matt Abrahams: I'd like to change
the subject a little bit to, to

better understand from you what
role specificity and repetition

play in building a new habit.

You often hear, just keep doing it over
and over again, and it becomes a habit,

and I'm not quite sure you believe that.

BJ Fogg: Yeah, exactly.

Well, specificity.

Be very clear.

Going back to the reading example,
don't just think, I wanna read more.

Be very clear, I wanna read this book.

And you might even define
how much of the book.

I think that's less important
than, than knowing what book.

And you might even define the location.

I wanna read this book
while sitting in this chair.

It seems that there's a big difference to
our brains between read more and after I

sit in the chair I will read this book.

And our brain can connect with the
second and, uh, prompt you to do

it and you're more likely to do it.

The next topic around repetition
that's long been said, that

repetition is the key to creating
habits, and that's just not true.

It's emotions.

What role does repetition play?

Well, if you do a behavior and you feel
strong, positive emotion as you do it,

that habit will wire in very quickly.

There's a type of habit
that I call one and done.

You do it one time and the habit is wired
in because the emotion was so strong.

For example, you buy a new car
and you drive the car to work.

That's not gonna take very long for
driving the new car to become a habit

'cause you're gonna feel so great.

Or you find a new way to drive to
Stanford that's prettier and faster.

The sense of success of, it's
more beautiful and faster,

it's gonna wire it in.

If the feeling of success is not that
strong, then it takes more, it's like

you're inching toward the automaticity.

And so in that case.

Doing the habit, let's say daily,
allowing yourself to feel successful,

then that will create a solid habit.

It won't be one and done.

So you need to, if you can't
feel a strong, positive emotion,

you need to repeat the habit.

But it's not the repetition
that's creating the habit,

it's the emotion that you feel.

So let's be really clear about that.

Yes, you may need to repeat the habit,
and cause yourself to feel successful

multiple times for it to really wire in.

But it's, it's not a function of
repetition, it's a function of emotion.

Matt Abrahams: So let
me give you an example.

If I, I know exercise is good for me,
but I don't like exercising or it hurts

and I'm tired and fatigued afterwards.

Forcing myself to, to continue to exercise
actually is working against building it as

a habit, is what I heard you say, because
I'm not having a positive experience.

It would be better for me to
find a more positive way to

get that physical activity.

Is that correct?

BJ Fogg: Yes, exactly.

So there's at least a
hundred ways to exercise.

Find the way that you like, find the
way that causes you to feel successful.

And just because somebody runs
a lot doesn't mean running is

the right exercise for you.

I know it's not the right
one for me, that's for sure.

It would be very hard for me to
create running as a habit, even

though I'm really great at habits.

And part of being great at creating
habits is knowing which habits to pick.

So don't pick the ones that you don't like
or don't want, or are painful for you.

Matt Abrahams: I got it.

I actually do enjoy running and
in fact, the, the reward and

celebration I have is I get the
opportunity to listen to podcasts.

So for me that's positive.

But there are many other types of exercise
I do not like, and I, I like what you

just shared that can help me look for
others that would be more positive.

So before we end, I like to ask the same
three questions of all of my guests.

Are you willing to answer them for me?

BJ Fogg: Sure.

Let's go.

Matt Abrahams: Okay.

If you were to capture the best
communication advice you have ever

received as a five to seven word
presentation slide title, what

would those five to seven words be?

BJ Fogg: Remember what
it's like not to know.

Matt Abrahams: Oh, so cool.

Why is that the advice you would share?

BJ Fogg: I was mentored by a brilliant
man named John S. Harris, and this is back

in the day when I was a technical writer
and he was teaching me to be a technical

editor and to teach technical writing.

And one of his big things was,
remember what it's like not to know.

And essentially that's a way
to say, have empathy, you know,

and consider the audience and
remember where they're coming from.

That has guided my work ever since.

You know, I moved away from
technical writing and technical

communication to other things.

But remember what it's like not to know.

Yeah.

Matt Abrahams: That is such powerful
advice because quite frankly, it's the

antidote to the curse of knowledge.

We all know a lot about what we're
communicating and we miss helping

people understand it because
we come from the wrong place.

So that beginner's mind,
I, I really appreciate.

I'll be curious to hear
your answer to question two.

Who is a communicator
that you admire and why?

BJ Fogg: There is a songwriter named
Shawna Edwards and I've been working

with her on songs about habits for kids.

So I've been working with her for
about a year, year and a half.

And she is amazing at taking concepts,
like I'll write some draft lyrics

and they're just too complicated and
not good for kids, and she'll just

crunch them down into a much simpler
version that still has the power,

and then she can put music to 'em.

It is just amazing to see how she
communicates with words in music

for the audience we're trying to
reach, which is kids from 3 to 11.

Matt Abrahams: I think it's great that
you're trying to help kids in that age

group, and I think it's fascinating
to know that you're a lyricist.

I did not know that that was one of
the many, uh, things that you have.

BJ Fogg: I see myself more as the
court jester working with someone

as talented as Shawna Edwards.

What a privilege, and
I've just learned so much.

But mostly just admire what she can do
that I probably never will be able to do.

Matt Abrahams: It is, it is
a true pleasure to be in the

presence of, of people who have
mastered their craft, for sure.

Final question, question three.

What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

BJ Fogg: I wrote down these words
before we started, but it's a great

kind of wrap up of what we talked about.

Empathy, number one.

Simplicity.

And practicality.

Matt Abrahams: Certainly, certainly.

And those ingredients can absolutely
help you be very clear, concise,

and, in many ways, compelling.

And I appreciate that.

And, and I appreciate that your
answer to this question was a

model of all three of those.

Well, thank you BJ.

I love your actionable,
specific advice and guidance.

I encourage everybody to
check out the work you do,

especially the Tiny Habits book.

You have a free five day course.

I, I am a graduate of that course.

I have found it very helpful.

Thank you for your time and
thank you for your insight.

BJ Fogg: Thank you, Matt.

It's been a pleasure to talk to you.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining
us for a special Rethinks episode of

Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abraham.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

Please find us on YouTube and
wherever you get your podcast.

Be sure to subscribe and rate us.

Also follow us on LinkedIn,
TikTok, and Instagram.

And check out fastersmarter.io for
deep dive videos, English language

learning content, and our newsletter.

Please also consider joining Think
Fasts Talk Smarts Learning Community

at fastersmarter.io/learning.

You'll find video lessons,
learning quests, discussion boards,

our AI coaches, and book club.