Why Failure Is an Option in Sustainability, with Steven Wright

UK ceramics manufacturing sits at a crossroads: energy costs run high, electricity is five times the price of gas, and the hydrogen route to decarbonisation has gone quiet. Steven Wright, Head of Sustainability at Portmeirion Group Limited, runs health, safety, sustainability, environmental and product compliance across six brands and international operations in North America, Canada and China. He talks with Rachel Green about setting net zero targets that hold up, treating failed projects as learning, and building sustainability into procurement, operations and finance rather than one job title.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to Insights for a Better Workplace

00:30 Meeting Steven Wright and his role at Portmeirion

01:21 Nine years in the business and the path into sustainability

02:31 Building a group wide sustainability strategy

03:19 Managing sustainability across six brands

04:08 Mandatory social audits for T1 suppliers

04:56 Bringing suppliers on board with change

06:22 Why non specialists carry the sustainability work

07:09 Energy, kilns and the cost of UK manufacturing

09:01 Setting net zero targets that are achievable

10:00 The business sustainability committee and pivoting from hydrogen

11:36 Committee structure and action groups

12:22 Failure as a learning tool

13:32 Collaborating across international teams and suppliers

15:59 Advice for working across countries and cultures

17:45 Making data collection meaningful, not a tick box

20:04 Packaging standards and the PPWR across markets

21:14 Card packaging, shredders and eliminating single use plastic

23:25 Where to start if you are new to sustainability

24:56 Procurement, operations and finance as focus areas

27:17 Next steps: growing UK manufacturing and kiln efficiency

28:08 Bringing Spode Christmas Tree back to the UK

29:03 Closing thoughts

You can follow Steven Wright here:

LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/steven-wright-8bba131b2

Learn more about Portmeirion Group Limited:

Website - https://portmeiriongroup.com

What is Insights for a Better Workplace - Sponsored By Manutan?

**Insights for a Better Workplace** is a podcast dedicated to exploring the evolving landscape of the modern work environment. Sponsored by **Manutan**, a European leader in workplace equipment and supplies, this show brings together industry experts and thought leaders to discuss the products, services, and strategies that help organizations work better every day.

From deep dives into operational efficiency and supply chain innovation to essential conversations on employee wellbeing and mental health, we cover the topics that matter most to today’s business leaders. Whether you are looking to optimize a large-scale industrial facility or create a more supportive office culture, join us for fresh perspectives on building safer, smarter, and more efficient workplaces.

[00:01] you're listening to insights for a Better Workplace sponsored by Manutan I'm your host Rachel Green and in each episode we move beyond the office walls and warehouse floors to explore what it truly means to work well from mental health and workplace culture to the latest in smart environment design we're joined by industry leaders to discuss how we can build safer more supportive and more efficient spaces for everyone let's get started

[00:30] so today on insights for Best Workplace we are joined by Steve Wright head of sustainability at Portmeirion Group hi Steve it's great to have you on the show hi there thanks for inviting me no you're more than welcome so we'd love to hear a little bit more about what you do at Portmeirion OK I'm Steve Wright I'm the head of SHE and Product Compliance at Portmeirion Group I'm I've I've taken the the senior cruise into sustainability I when I first started I was primarily looking at energy management and emissions reporting and now my remit's expanded it includes health safety sustainability environmental and product compliance and it sounds like it a a broad spectrum and but it's quite a a quite an overlap with a governance reporting

[01:21] risk assessments and ultimately helping make a better business decisions fantastic that's great how long have you been with the company I've been in this business now for about nine years oh wow yes yes it's been it's been an exciting time and I've seen many changes over that time yeah I can imagine and what LED you into the role that you're so working in now what what got you interested in sustainability and what you do I am primarily when I joined the business it was as a quality and technical manager and and under the technical remit we were looking at the energy consumption of the kilns where we were using them opportunities to reduce energy consumption and as that role developed an opportunity arose where I was asked to study

[02:06] Cranfield University for a master's in sustainability and so I was I was quite fortunate where the the company funded that qualification I'm pleased to report I've completed it graduated and the the business is now using that expertise and new skills that have been acquired into helping strengthen the position as a sustainable business

[02:31] I think you when we last spoke you mentioned um implementing a group wide sustainability strategy so can you walk us through sort of the biggest shifts that you've seen in sustainability priorities or industry expectations over the last couple of years yeah and I think one of the biggest changes and priorities is how I've viewed the business like I said at the start it was very much the ceramic aspect of the business and the the the carbon energy consumption when we look at the the organization as a whole we've got ceramic manufacturers home fragrance manufacturing timber products textile products each area of the business has its own environmental impact so it's been looking at other aspects as

[03:19] and what kind of packaging are you using for products what waste packaging is being generated what is the supply chain impacts of what we use our social engagement so it's been looking at a more overview of the environmental impact not just limiting the cells to energy consumption of the group yeah so you have six brands I believe that set under Port Merion is that right that's right yes so that must be a lot of different uh brands to kind of I'm assuming you look after the sustainability for all of those do you oversee all of it that's right yes yeah and it's it's challenging and I would like to say that there's a magic bullet that fixes everything across the brands unfortunately it's not um

[04:08] what we what we do try to do is install a group policy on the core sustainability functions so one of the more recent exercises that we've undertaken is make it mandatory for all our uh T1 suppliers to have social medical orders in place and we just need to make sure that how we're operating who we're using in our operations um is as sustainable as possible there's no point being a commercially successful business at the expense of people or the environment hmm absolutely so that that goes right through from sort of start to finish of the supply chain the supplies that you're working with um and and you said all of those are required to have a salary yeah that you work with and what does that look like for your suppliers

[04:56] what sort of do you come up against any challenges with that when you're when you're dealing with suppliers across the group I'm sometimes yes that there is a um a latent mentality of change is bad or why we're being asked to do this it's another level of bureaucracy that's needed um I don't think governance should mean bureaucracy to be fair um it comes down to communicating and engaging with the supply chain if we explain why we're doing it then we often get a better uptake if there's exceptions where they may not have the audit we've requested but they've got an equivalent we'll work with them assess the that the data chain and just assess the rest of the business yeah so you say it's that change

[05:45] isn't it and that sort of um I don't know so oh this is there's another thing and all these other things that you need to do I suspect you sort of hear that a lot so how do you I like you say you suppose if they've got other accreditations that can work you work with them is there any other I don't know I suppose insight you've given to managing suppliers when it comes to sustainability and how you forge those relationships when there is you know the change and and all of those things yeah I think it just goes back to being clear and what's what we're asking for from our suppliers the last thing we want is

[06:22] another spreadsheet going out for completion and the user doesn't understand why they're providing the data I think it's fair to say most activities that are undertaken on the sustainability umbrella are carried out by people without sustainability in their job title so if we can't get them engaged we're going to struggle to get valid data yeah absolutely so you say it's that engagement isn't it getting people engaged and I suppose also there's level of understanding because your role every day is you understand it fully and you know you get it and I suppose the others that need to be involved in the process don't always have that full understanding do they say that that's right yes and when when we do identify areas of concern

[07:09] then it's a case of working with that supplier to explain why we and why we need to address a particular subject and just bringing them on board with where we are a lot of the times it is just going to be a understanding and just trying to align them with the the group's expectations yeah of course so in a business that runs 24 7 manufacturing operations energy tomorrow must be significant and so what are some of the main environmental challenges that you face day to day and how are you addressing them and I think the main one is the the the energy that we use on the kills and across the 6 brands the the the main energy consumers and by default the carbon emitters

[08:03] I'm I'm trying not to get into my soapbox now but the the the main issue on the energy is the costs of energy um we we're working with um sector leaders policy makers just to try and make UK manufacturing competitive um we need to invest in as an industry we need to invest in new technology uh bring the kilns into this century but without clear guidance of what the future looks like with alternative fuels I'm the the industry is at it's at a crossroads for example a few years ago hydrogen was there saving the decarbonising uh gassy missions that seems to have disappeared now we're going very quiet and the governments are favouring electrification mm hmm where electricity prices are currently five times higher than gas

[09:01] it just makes more challenging it makes UK manufacturing more challenging and how do we be competitive to the international market so there's a desire from ceramics to decarbonize it's just that we need that support and engagement from policymakers just to get a better understanding of how do we how do we deal with that yeah of course I think you know there's um there's so many companies that have set ambitious sort of net zero targets but feasibility can be challenging given infrastructure market conditions and things like that so how do you and your committee assess which goals are both ambitious and then actually achievable I suppose yeah that's that's that's a very good question I think there's a

[09:48] there's a common theme where some businesses feel the need to set a net zero target and often ambition is confused with credibility

[10:00] you've seen in the news where some organisations are scrapping net zero plans just because their roadmap isn't achievable uh through our crafting a better future sustainability strategy we've committed to become a net zero for Scopes 1 and 2 emissions by 2014 what that means in reality is every quarter we have a business sustainability committee that meet and we're tracking progress throughout the year how's the organisation meeting those strategy objectives annually we'll do an overview of the strategy are those objectives still relevant how are we going to achieve and a zero so for example um that when we first started the strategy in 2021 the net zero was going to be achieved by hydrogen

[10:51] I'm that doesn't seem to be the case now so we've had to pivot and look at what all the feasible technologies and infrastructure are in place to achieve that to that goal and we're in a um a transition phase at the moment where we're monitoring the viable technologies emerging just to make sure that we can still deliver that there's no point on December 31st, 2039 saying we're not going to achieve net zero we've got to be realistic and be transparent this is how we have to do it if that's not gonna happen we need a plan B a plan C absolutely that's so good to hear that because I do think you do hear of some companies that do say right we're gonna do this and then you never hear anything about it for however long

[11:36] until that kind of date comes around so it's really great that you have those touch points those check ins you're constantly re evaluating the shifts the moves and and how do you need to adapt with that um have you got sort of a whole team of people that are working on on that together yeah the the committee is made up of uh five senior managers and their chief operating officer so we've got a direct line into the board of what um how they do violations and performing against the objectives yeah underneath the committee we've got various action groups which are LED up but which are chaired by committee members just so we've got clear responsibility of who's driving what projects and just so we can keep the momentum going

[12:22] we might be 2040 for that zero but there's a lot of work and can we reduce energy in the first instance before we look to uh debate any missions yeah have you got any sort of examples where you've had to pivot quite you know quickly or on something that's gonna rise um

[12:42] yeah yeah so yeah I've got plenty of examples where things haven't tape haven't gone right face time and I'm probably going to upset a lot of project managers and but I believe failure is an option and failing that understanding or that learning anything from it isn't an option yeah if there's a if an organization will only look at um implementing new projects where you've got guaranteed success you won't get any new innovation in the business you need to understand the risk that's being undertaken with a new project and then if if it doesn't go right learn from it there is and then how would you avoid that happening again that's that's really I really like that what you said about that because a lot of the time

[13:32] we're very keen to see sort of like green numbers and this is gone well and this is gone well but actually like you say so it is we take learnings away from things that don't always go to plan the first time around absolutely I'd rather have a difficult conversation about a a target result than just presenting a a dashboard with a green tick saying we're on track or we've done this we just got to be transparent what if things work great let's celebrate it if things haven't worked let's investigate it do a root cause analysis am I primitive yeah that's great so your role involves coordinating across various international teams and suppliers and that includes operations in North America Canada and China

[14:12] so what does successful collaboration look like for you especially when working towards a global carbon footprint reduction I mean it comes down to the simply communication and engagement um one thing I found uh early on is the different businesses different sides they are all at a different starting point emissions reporting globally um isn't as unified as many would like so it's it's understanding the approach that a particular country takes to a net zero or emissions what time frame are they working to um America have got their um cultural view of um climate change and how we should be reporting emissions over in Asia they are more committed to I reduce emissions but their time frames might not be necessarily in line with the UK's

[15:13] I believe the Chinese

[15:16] are aiming for to peak emissions at 2030 before start working towards that zero so reports coming through saying that that peak is coming sooner than expected um but again it's just trying to work with those different cultures to explain what it is we're asking for as a as a UK based business we've got certain obligations so we're just trying to get everybody on board with our way of working just to try and bring some sort of standardization to the process what would be also one bit of advice for anybody that is trying to navigate something like that across multiple different of countries and cultures

[15:59] I'm

[16:02] I think it's direct communication and it's just it's just speaking don't be afraid to reach out to a it's stakeholders and just trying to understand what is the what were the barriers and how can you work around these barriers

[16:20] I'm repeating the previous answer the worst thing you can do is just send a questionnaire about saying please complete this with no context yeah because people just either won't give it a time of day or won't really appreciate the this the essential nature of accurate data that the reporter yeah I think that's so important I think actually is people just you know in the workplace in different roles whether that's project managers sustainability sales teams warehouse whatever it might be we're so busy so you you do often see quite a lot of these forms that all things come through as I just fill this out and send it off and actually it's it's how we um educate uh so that there's more understanding around what

[17:01] what people are being asked to do or absolutely yeah and we've been at the receiving end as well where we've had inquiries um where we had spreadsheets and again whoever's designed spreadsheets in their head it makes perfect sense I'm guilty of doing it myself and and they'll be a cell that will say this is mandatory it's required and but then when we reach out to say well we've not got this information and we've not been asked for it before they'll come back yeah OK don't worry about it it's someone OK if you need to think about them why are you asking it's not mandatory why is it there so yeah we've been at both ends of the conversation yeah no I can imagine I think there's you know often a business

[17:45] sustainability reporting comes as a bit of a tick box exercise for businesses so how do you ensure that sort of both you and your customers really understand and use the data that you collect rather than just going through the motions I know we spoke a little bit about relationships and things like that but are there any other uh steps you have in place I suppose for that yeah when we are capturing data we we're very proactive in working with supply chain partners to understand the energy that's used in manufacturing ceramics overseas we will often uh trend um what the energy consumption is versus the energy metric such as um how much energy is required to make 1 ton of saleable products for example if we find that we've got one particular uh

[18:32] supplier who's energy efficiency is a lot worse than everybody else in that sample pool will reach out to them anonymise the data and just say this is how you're performing against all the factories in the same country what can we do to try and bring that down that could be down to either they've not understood the original data request and is an error and that were dated or there is an opportunity where they're looking at how they're actually manufacturing the products and how they can change I think when it comes to um the the take box um statement if if you're not if you're asking for data and that data doesn't lead to um a conversation an action or a decision you real need to ask yourself the question

[19:23] why you collecting our data from the first instance it's just making it relevant yeah and I suppose that does doesn't help either does it when there are things like that you need to questions in there or things that you're going through it sometimes makes it a bit murky on the on the points that really are important um if you've got a lot of different things in there that actually just so many questions so many things to think about are we sort of losing sight of the important bits in there I suppose exactly yeah yeah yeah it's just just just make it as lean and irrelevant as possible yeah completely so everything I want to touch on is um packaging and material choices and that's under more scrutiny from both regulators and customers

[20:04] so how are you navigating the lack of harmonized standards for packaging across different markets and customer requirements

[20:12] the the main issue with the um packaging um requirements in Europe is the approach that individual member states are taking to a in a European regulation the the the EU overarching regulations such as the packaging and Packaging Waste Regulation PPWR that will explain what requirements are made without starting individual members to interpret that and provide the development date we've had um two countries approaches for data on our packaging and they've been asking the same the same data just in completely different ways so what we what we do is we try and work with them and say this is the underlying data we've got for our products well that do for you and then it's case they will just interpret the data to see their framework

[21:14] if we were to try and provide bespoke frameworks for individual nations we run the risk of providing the wrong data but if we share the same baseline data and there's there's no confusion yeah and when it comes to the packaging um at Port Marine Group um how what sort of packaging are you using in order to remain more sustainable we primarily use card now card packaging we've successfully eliminated single use plastic as a packaging and material we've also invested in a shredder so when we have imported card coming into the distribution centre that's now shredded and that's often used as a replacement for the the the plastic void film that was seen we with supplies to look at the recyclability of the packaging

[22:07] and we just want to make sure can that packaging be repurposed or recycled we don't want the we don't want our products or packaging going to Atlanta we just want to try and install our sustainable ideas and practices on to the the NGS as well yeah we've got a very similar thing in our um warehouse at Bellwood I know that we do very similar in all the other countries we're based in but we've got the shredder over there so anything that comes in in card and I was going out with cardboard we then reuse that and we shred it for the packaging and it's quite funny actually cause sometimes they say that's quite therapeutic cause sometimes some of the guys from the office go over and just do an hour shredding

[22:48] that's actually quite therapeutic and so yeah very similar and I think that's um yeah I think if there's anybody that isn't quite sure where to start that's probably a good place to start in there you know warehouses and things like that when it comes to packing in I might have to steal the idea about going over for an hour peace yeah just to hide going get an hour's peace to do some shredding um that's great I mean in terms of if somebody sort of listening I suppose not all businesses are as far along as as what you are Port Merion in terms of the sustainability and what you're what you're doing so what type of advice would you give to somebody that's starting to to look at this that maybe

[23:25] you know they're starting right from scratch or that they're not doing lots yet but they'd like to I think the first a piece of advice I'd give is look at what information you're being asked for from your ah your customers if there's a common theme that's that's a good place to start um for us we were often asked about um recyclability or sustainable properties of our products and I think don't be afraid to start way you think is right you you you might have a false start but this goes back to the failing if you've if you've gone down a road and it's not right for this time just backtrack and just incorporate what you've Learned to do it again there's plenty of resources are available and his networks are worried on sustainability

[24:21] I'm yeah I think he just don't be afraid to start hmm look at what you've got at what you've got and just go from there yeah it's a really good message and I think for some businesses as well for any companies that don't have a dedicated sort of sustainability and have a sustainability or somebody that's primarily looking at that where would you start in terms of the team members that you're you've got what what who you're working with what areas that I suppose are more more affected by it or you know have more involvement in that area um

[24:56] I think the the the two main areas that I'd I'd say we're gonna focus on would be procurement of those three areas so I got a new accounts it's procurement operations and finance and operations we can give them and guidance on how their accounts operate to energy efficiencies are looking at and we have found from it and it's as wrong as it sounds if we can increase the quality yields would be more sustainable because we're not generating as much waste products so it's it's just feeding into that how's the energy related how's the quality yields and we're aligned from that lens from a procurement they have quite a significant influence on how we

[25:44] they can influence the carbon footprint of the product what packaging what supply chain might even be using and ultimately the cost of the product so it's a case with the procurement team is asking the sustainability questions at the start of the process embedding that into the decision making just to try and get that in through start the sustainability shouldn't be in department as such the probably took himself out of the job it's making it a behaviour yeah and finally on the final side it's moving away from um yeah we need to spend this much money to make this process more green and change the the converse change the question around to if we spend so if we change this job and do it this way

[26:35] we'll be saving this much money and that helps them bad sustainability into the business without risking the commercial successfulness of the business and try to be more sustainable at the same time yeah it's really great to speak to somebody who's um he's really sort of living it and doing it and you know all of those kind of things cause you hear a lot of companies talk about it but that you know there's not always that sort of embedded sort of culture I suppose within and the company or its people and that's something that we're really working on at Minnie's House as well as our sustainability um what that looks like particularly around some of our sustainable products as well and and what we can do to be more responsible

[27:17] and so we started our circular hub where some of our products come in and and or you know they've come back and there's maybe something they're not quite perfect but you know how do we actually create um replenish goods and that can be purchased rather than always buying new and yeah I know there's quite a lot that we're doing in terms of that so that's really interesting so hi what would you say are the biggest next next steps and or areas to focus for Marian groups journey in the next year or two I think realistically it's it's moving towards the to grow in UK manufacturing as well as looking at decarbonization um with the kilns they are operate here 24 7 and if we could fill those kilns keep them filled with UK made products

[28:08] the energy efficiency will improve as well the final fresh air is is a crime so we need to eh work to grow UK manufacturing and improve the efficiency of the kilns in the past 18 months we've had a very successful campaign where we've brought a spew range back into UK Spew Christmas tree yeah and it it that that's just grown amazingly well and originally spew was made two miles down the road from where it is now and when the originally went into a liquidation it was outsourced to China so it's been a real success story where we've been able to challenge the conception of costs from UK baking bring that back home and every day this year we've been in the factory there's been Christmas tree products everywhere

[29:03] just to meet the demand for the consumer so we just need to keep on building that and yeah I think growth more and sustainability we can have hand in hand yeah that's fantastic no thank you so much Steve is there anything else you'd like to share with us on insights for a better workplace today I'm no I just thanks for the invite it's it's just great for this kind of twin cation channel and platform and being put out there just to help share ideas and I think through the episodes

[29:37] but yeah if if if somebody is starting out by time we've watched all the episodes they might be in a bad position to to look at why they where do you start from absolutely you know it's so great for us to have sort of an expert I suppose in the field just say the ability to come on and talk about what you're doing and and what companies you know could be doing particularly around the relationships of suppliers and customers and things like that so I think that's really where you know a bit of education is maybe needed and why a lot of companies struggle and so yeah thank you so much for coming on and being a guest we'd love having you you're welcome thank you and it's been great thank you