Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

"Meaning is about being mindful of the effect you have on other people."
What makes a life meaningful? We often think purpose and meaning are the same thing, but according to Stanford professor Brian Lowery, they're fundamentally different. Purpose is what drives us. Meaning comes from the impact we have on others. In this live episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart from Stanford’s LEAD Me2We event, Lowery and Matt Abrahams examine how our relationships shape who we become, why sincerity matters more than authenticity, and how leaders influence others through every interaction. Along the way, they share practical insights on giving better feedback, building stronger connections, and creating workplaces where people can thrive.

Key Takeaways:
  • Meaning comes from your impact on others. Purpose is what drives your actions, but meaning grows when your work positively influences the people around you and continues beyond your own involvement.
  • The way you show up shapes the people around you. Leaders create better teams by practicing self-awareness, communicating with sincerity, and giving feedback that recognizes people's intentions while helping them grow.

Activity:
  • Notice your influence. At the end of each workday, write down one interaction that may have shaped someone else's experience—positively or negatively. Reflect on what you communicated beyond your words and what you want to do differently tomorrow.

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

 Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (00:39) - Purpose vs. Meaning
  • (02:12) - The Ripple Effect of Meaning
  • (04:06) - How Others Shape Who We Are
  • (05:20) - The Leader's Role in Shaping Others
  • (08:58) - Self-Awareness & Psychological Safety
  • (11:48) - Sincerity vs. "True Self"
  • (12:53) - Feedback For Grow
  • (17:13) - Becoming Better Humans
  • (18:46) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Brian Lowery
Walter Kenneth Kilpatrick Professor of Organizational Behavior & Founding Co-Director of Stanford's Institute on Race

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Sincerity, connection,
and empathy define a meaningful life.

My name is Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today, I'm excited to share a
live conversation I had with our

returning guest, our first four-time
guest, GSB professor Brian Lowery.

As part of this year's Stanford LEAD
Me2We, Brian and I sat down to discuss

what makes for a meaningful life and
how we operationalize that through our

feedback to and communication with others.

Enjoy our conversation.

Brian, thanks for being here.

It's exciting to chat with you.

Brian and I have had a number of
conversations on the show and otherwise,

and I remember a couple years ago when we
had our conversation, people got really,

really excited about some of your research
about motivation, meaning, purpose.

Can you remind us the difference from the
way you look at meaning versus purpose?

Brian Lowery: Yeah, so purpose is
what you do in the morning, right?

So purpose is like, "I have to do
this, I have to do that," or, "I'm

trying to achieve this." And meaning
is something that, I think of it

as like extends you in time, right?

So it's not just what you
do at any given moment.

One way to think of it is
like how you'd be remembered.

Why is what you're doing matters?

So that's how people talk about meaning.

It's about not just what you
do, but why does it matter?

And also mattering is
usually about other people.

So purpose is often for you, what gets
you up in the morning, but meaning

almost always involves other people.

So that's kind of the difference.

Matt Abrahams: So individual
versus connecting to others.

Do you have advice and guidance on
how we can better find our purpose?

Brian Lowery: Find our purpose.

I think purpose is whatever.

You can just decide what your purpose is.

There's no magic in purpose.

I think that people when they say purpose,
sometimes what they mean is meaning.

Purpose is easy.

I think the idea of like
find your passion, I don't

personally subscribe to that.

I'm like, make what you do your
passion, as opposed to go out and

try to figure out what it is, 'cause
now you're searching and who knows.

I think you decide what it is
you want to do and then commit

yourself to doing that thing.

That, that thing, that is
how you find your purpose.

Matt Abrahams: So it's almost observing
what's going on in your life and

what's there and then that becomes it.

So how do you find meaning?

Brian Lowery: I think meaning is about who
do you want to serve other than yourself.

And that can be a number of
people in different ways.

That could be your kids, that could
be your students, that could be future

generations of users of your product.

It could be all sorts of people, but
it has to be serving someone other than

yourself, connecting to someone other
than yourself, providing something outside

of yourself that will extend beyond you.

So often the way people talk about
mattering and meaning is that it has

to reverberate beyond your presence.

So it can't just be, "I'm here with
you, I did this thing." It has to

be, "I'm here with you doing this
thing, and when I leave, what I

did will continue to influence you.

How I've touched you will continue
to influence you, and then you

will influence other people.

And so now I've indirectly
influenced those people." That

is where meaning comes from.

Matt Abrahams: So it's
almost like a ripple effect.

Brian Lowery: It's a ripple effect.

And I think meaning is about being
mindful of the effect you have on other

people, and being purposeful about
the effect you have on other people.

Matt Abrahams: Okay, so the purpose
in many ways drives the meaning.

Brian Lowery: Yeah.

In the sense of, like, anything
you do can affect other people.

You just choose to do something, right?

You just choose, "I'm gonna try to
make this best place to work. I'm

gonna choose to make this meeting
or this vacation," or whatever.

But if you're doing it in service
of other people and understand that

it's affecting those people, it will
change the way you do it, and it

will make it more meaningful for you.

When you're thinking about how what
you're doing touches and influences

other people, that will give you an
experience of meaningfulness in your life.

Being mindful other people are
being influenced by your behaviors

changes how you understand yourself.

Matt Abrahams: You're adding at least
one layer, if not more, on this notion

of empathy that we were talking about.

It's this idea of my impact
on you and what it means.

When I read your book, and we talked
about it before on the show, one

thing that I'm still trying to wrap
my mind around is this notion of how

we define ourselves through others.

Can you walk us through that?

And if nothing else, this is a tutorial
for me 'cause I'm still trying to grasp

this, but can you help me understand?

Brian Lowery: So the way I would
say it is, without others, you

would have no idea who you were.

So in this conversation already, you've
said, like, you're, or I asked you about

it, but you're, you're, you have a wife.

Matt Abrahams: And I have two kids.

Brian Lowery: You have kids.

Matt Abrahams: Yes, I do.

Brian Lowery: You have two kids.

All those things come together and
tell you something about who you are.

Like, you're a dad, you're a husband,
you're a podcaster, you're an interviewer.

And you can add things to that, and
those collectively are who you are.

All of the parts, those plus any
others you can come up with that

you think of as who you are, depend
on relationships with other people.

Those ideas of who you are and your
own internal ideas of who you are

would not exist absent those people.

Like, you can't be a
husband without a wife.

You cannot be a parent without kids.

You cannot be a podcaster
without an audience.

So without other people, the things that
you use to define yourself don't exist.

Matt Abrahams: So in connection to
others, we help define ourselves.

Many folks sitting in this room
are leaders, managers, and they

have others that work for them.

How do we help create the selves of those
people who work with us or work for us?

I mean, there are things we can do
to help them define themselves and

their roles in our organizations.

Talk to me about that.

Brian Lowery: I think that we define
people, interact with them all the time in

ways that we don't take seriously because
in some cultures, at least in the States

and other places, not just the States,
but certainly in the States, there's a

sense of like, 'I exist as an island.

I'm the most important thing, and then
all I care about is did I affect you

and did you affect me?' But there's
a barrier that cannot be crossed.

I just think that's fundamentally wrong.

That is just not how things
actually work socially.

And so when we're interacting, we
are co-constructing each other.

Part of that is really
philosophical and abstract.

Like, if you're a leader, you're
telling people what they have

to do when they go to work.

You're telling people what time
they have to show up, that you're

making them feel happy to be
there or hate being there, right?

Those things are part of how
they think about themselves.

When they go home, they're talking about
you and the workplace in particular

ways and themselves as a part of that.

Like, I hate my job.

I'm the kind of person that hates my job.

I love my job.

I'm the kind of person who loves my job.

You know, these people at work,
they're annoying to me, or I miss

them, or whatever it is, but all
those things are changing how you see

yourself, and they're changing how
you show up and behave at work, too.

If you're a manager, you are
constructing the environment

in which people are working.

The environment in which people
work, the environment which

people live, in all sorts of ways
directly affects how they behave.

And so when you see someone behaving in
a way that you like or don't like, you

should first ask yourself, if you're
a leader in that environment, what

am I doing that produces that, right?

And this gets away from this idea
of like they are who they are and

they're just doing what they do, and
you start to think of like how am I

participating in producing this behavior?

Now, people will be like,
"But that's not true.

They're just a terrible
human being, and they're just

lazy." I'm like, "That's fine.

I don't know.

Yeah, there are some lazy people." But the
thing is, one, I'm right. Two, even if I'm

wrong, which I'm not, but even if I were
wrong, it is more rational to ask yourself

as a leader, what can I do to change the
situation than to say, "I have no agency.

I can't do anything 'cause they are
who they are." Given those two, I

think you would choose to say like,
"Where am I in this?" And that

agency requires responsibility.

And what the responsibility I'm
talking about here is understanding

that how you behave as a leader
is shaping how the people that

work for you show up and behave.

Matt Abrahams: And I think that
puts a lot of responsibility on

leaders to really reflect on that.

A lot of leaders just
optimize for output, right?

And they don't really think about what
they're doing that can lead to that.

Brian Lowery: People don't
understand that who they are is

shaping who their employees are.

So it's not just what you tell them to do.

It's who you are, how are you showing up?

And so people often just focus on
what's outside of them, like how are

they behaving, how do I alter their
behavior, without looking at the self.

If you change how you show up, you will
change how people around you show up.

And so in the context of work,
people might not see it that way.

But if you think about families,
people understand this implicitly.

If you're, like, in a terrible mood all
the time or you're unhappy with life or

something like that, for sure that is
gonna affect your wife and your kids.

Like, no one has to explain that to you.

But somehow you go to work,
it's as if, like, people all

have their responsibilities.

Who I am doesn't matter.

I'm just telling them what to
do, you do what you're told.

And, like, my person, how I
show up, has no influence.

That just cannot be true.

Matt Abrahams: That analogy
really does help cement the idea.

We think of that with our
family and friends very easily,

but we don't see it at work.

Is there advice or best practices you have
for people in leadership roles to help

maximize the success and the wellbeing
of the people that work with them?

What can we do to help them
see themselves that way?

Brian Lowery: Doing work on
self-awareness actually has notable

effects on how your employees respond
to you and their experience of work.

So there's evidence, there's
research on this, right?

So the closer that the way your employees
see you is the way you see yourself,

the safer and the more efficient
your employees are, as an example.

So one is being willing to examine
the self and being willing to respond

to the environment in such a way
that allows for people to know you

in a way that allows them to feel
a degree of psychological safety.

And psychological safety here is, at
best, predictability, like understand

you, and you think I understand you.

That changes the way we work together.

And that's not about you're nice.

It's not about doing
what I want you to do.

It's just like I'm working
for you, I understand you.

You agree with that understanding,
now we can work in a different way

than if I can't, I don't really
know what's going on with you.

I can't figure out
what's going on with you.

I hear what you're telling me to
do, but I don't understand you.

That creates a distance and some
degree of unsafety, which undermines

the work relationship and undermines
the quality of the work of people.

So self-awareness, also being willing to
examine and accept the perspective of the

other people, even if it doesn't match
yours, is legitimate and reasonable.

So I might not agree with how you see
things, but I should take your experience

seriously, whether I agree with it or not.

And again, the agreement is not the issue,
but, like, truly trying to understand,

engaging with how you see the world.

Also, that there's clear evidence that
that has positive effects because often

people care about being respected.

So sometimes people worry about or think
that people only care about what they get.

So of course, people care about that,
but they also care about did you hear me?

Do you care that I want this thing?

Even if you don't give it to
me, do you even respect me?

And if you demonstrate that to people,
like you're asking questions, you

really care about the answer they
give, even if you don't agree, you're

trying to understand, and they see
that as a sincere, the way they'll

respond to that and the kind of leeway
they will give you is surprising.

And so that's another thing I would tell
people, like, one, understand yourself.

Be sensitive to how other people
see you so that you can create a

match between how you see yourself
and how other people see you.

There's positive gain there.

Two, and as a part of that, taking
seriously the perspective of other people.

You don't have to agree with them,
but taking it seriously changes

their experience of the situation.

Those things together have
huge positive benefits.

Matt Abrahams: So self-awareness
as well as acknowledging seriously

the other person's perspective.

It strikes me that that requires a
level of confidence and vulnerability,

though, to do that, to show up as
your true self and to look internal.

Brian Lowery: Just to be clear,
I have no idea what a true self

is, but here's what I know.

You show up in a particular way.

Whether or not that's your true self
or not, I don't know I would worry

more about sincerity than truth.

The goal is not to, like, be who
you are all the time with everyone.

like, That's just not
how human beings operate.

And so instead of worrying
about the true self, I think you

should worry about sincerity.

Am I being as honest as I can right now?

Matt Abrahams: With
myself and with others.

Brian Lowery: Yes.

And that is a different thing than saying,
"Am I being my true self?" Sometimes

being your true self might be an asshole.

Like, you're in a bad mood,
you're being an asshole.

That's fine.

Don't be that true self.

It's okay.

But when you engage with people,
be sincere, and that's different

than, like, 'cause people have this
idea of, like, "If it's in my head,

I gotta say it." No, you don't.

No.

Please don't.

Be, don't be your true self with me.

But be sincere, and I think that that's
what people are expecting, sincerity.

Matt Abrahams: It does require
you to really think about and know

what's important to you and to
have your own values understood.

I wanna talk about the crucible
of feedback because it strikes me

that, you know, many leaders have to
give feedback, but this could be a

friction point or some tension with
some of the issues you're talking.

'Cause when I give you feedback, I'm
confronting your perceptions of yourself.

How does feedback work
well in this paradigm?

Brian Lowery: I think it
should be, again, sincere.

And if you understand the other person's
perspective of themselves, I think the

fear is that it's hard to give hard
feedback, it's hard to get hard feedback,

or fear that that's what you're gonna get.

I think once you create a relationship
where there's sincerity, you can

give feedback in such a way where
you're asking people to understand

how you experience what is happening.

And this is, I think, the issue with
feedback, is it feels like I'm making a

statement of truth that you don't like.

But that's not really what's happening.

What I'm telling you is, "Here's
how I perceive what is happening.

Here's how I'm experiencing what
you're doing," and maybe even,

"Here's what I'm thinking about that."

That's a very different claim than like,
"You are not good at your job." Right?

"You are bad at this thing." I might
be like, "Look, what you did here

didn't have the effect that we hoped
it would." I think that would be

enough for most people to understand
and like, "Okay, can I get better

or not?" And they can ask questions.

You know what's funny about this?

I'm like working on fiction writings,
and I have a developmental editor.

And so a development editor, the
way it works is like you write,

you send them pages, and they
give you feedback on the pages.

They give you direct feedbacks.

They go through your writing, they
make comments, and they give you a

letter that's like, "Here's what I see,
here's what I think, here's what you

need to work on," blah, blah, blah.

It feels deeply personal, and it's
very vulnerable to write something,

because it comes from you and
it's who you are, and then have

someone give you feedback on that.

And recently in our meeting, I was like,
"Uh, you know, I really love the way you

give feedback." And like, I felt like
I learned something from her, and this

is kind of where this is coming from,
'cause one, the feedback always feels

honest, and I don't always like it.

I don't even always agree with it.

And sometimes it's like the version
of like, this isn't good, and

I understand what she's saying,
but I never feel defensive.

I look forward to having
these meetings with her.

I look forward to getting
her letters and feedback.

I know it's not gonna all be positive.

In fact, I expect it
not to all be positive.

And I'm not sensitive about it at all.

And I talked to her about it, actually.

I said like, "You know, I was
gonna tell you that like, first of

all, I teach a lot of classes and
like, you're really good at this.

I really appreciate the way you give
feedback." And what she said was,

"When I give feedback, I always think
about the intent of the author." So

I'm like, "What were you trying to do?

What was your goal here?

You might have completely
failed, and I do all the time.

And I need you to understand how you
failed because my job is to help you grow,

so I, I have to give you this feedback."
And that engagement with her, I think

why that feedback works, and what I love
about it, is I feel seen in the feedback.

And when she says something, I'm
like, "That's correct," right?

But I feel seen.

'Cause by the way, I worked with someone
else who I hated, couldn't stand her.

I was like, "This person is terrible."
And she was also probably right, but

the feeling was like, this person
is telling me what I should be.

She's telling me what she sees and
how I'm falling short of her ideal.

It was like even if it was
right, it was just bad.

And this other woman is like, "I
see what you are trying to be.

I see what you are trying to do.

And I'm gonna tell you where
you're falling short." It was

just a world of difference.

And I thought about that and I'm like,
look, if you assume that people are

trying to be successful, right, and
you're looking at their intent and like

even when they fall short, it's not that
people don't know they're falling short.

If they don't, then it
is your job to tell them.

And so saying like, "I see what you're
trying to do. I see you're making effort.

Here's where it might not be working."
And doing it in a way that takes seriously

that person's desire to be successful,
I think changes things dramatically.

Matt Abrahams: So much
richness in that answer.

The part that I'm really reflecting
on in my own life, seeing the person

for who they want to be versus who you
think they should be is a fundamental

difference in how you approach feedback.

And what you said earlier, which I think
is also really important, is what am

I doing that's contributing to this?

So it's not just about here's
what's wrong or here's what could

be improved, it's what am I doing?

And then really help the person to
see it through that understanding

and being present for them.

I have to really think about
how I've been giving feedback.

I appreciate that.

Last question I'll ask, the
class you teach is very popular.

A lot of people are
really excited to take it.

What's one thing you hope your
students take away from the class?

Brian Lowery: The thing that I always
want people to take away is, and if

you hear me talk outside of class,
I think it's probably more apparent,

but I think for me, my class is
about being a better human being.

And I don't mean good.

I don't mean like, I hope
you all are good people.

You should strive to be good
people, but I'm not talking

about morally a good person.

What I'm talking about is
being better at being human.

And I think the fundamental
thing about being human is our

connections with other human beings.

And I mean this literally, you are
not human without other human beings.

You cannot be fully human
absent other human beings.

And so what is defining about being human
is our connections with the quality of

interactions with other human beings.

When you show up at work and there
are people there, those are not

different human beings than the human
beings that are at home or at any

place else that you see human beings.

And so being a better human being, being
more effective at engaging with human

beings in relationships will definitely
make you a more effective leader.

Matt Abrahams: It boils down
to connection and other-focus.

Well, thank you, Brian.

An incredibly rich conversation.

It's about introspection, it's about
invitation and empathy and connection.

And it is through that that we
build ourselves and the stories

that we work with others.

So it's about communication
internally and externally.

Thank you.

Thank you for joining us
for another episode of Think

Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more from Brian, please
listen to episodes 23, 84, and 142.

This episode was produced by
Katherine Reed, Alex McCarthy,

Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder with
special thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

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