3 Hamster Boys

The 3 Hamster Boys talk about their favorite villains and drink some sours from Random Row Brewing Co. ( https://randomrow.com/). 

What is 3 Hamster Boys?

In this engaging podcast, a dad and his two sons explore their personal interests while rating a variety of alcoholic beverages. They dive into discussions about nerd and geek culture, travel experiences, and an array of intriguing topics that pique their curiosity. Join them for a fun and lighthearted conversation filled with laughter, insights, and, of course, plenty of drink reviews!

Alexander:

Hello, and welcome back to the second episode of the 3 hamster boys. Last week, we were sitting around talking for perhaps a little too long about superheroes having some cocktails and some whiskey, which was a lot of fun. But today, we've got something a little bit different. We've got some sours and a little bit of red ale for us to try. And today, we're gonna be talking about villains.

Jeff:

The other thing is, hopefully, we'll have video this time. Yeah. Hopefully, no one video this time.

Nick:

If you are seeing

Alexander:

us, great.

Jeff:

If you see us, we have video this time.

Alexander:

If not, oops.

Jeff:

Yeah. You're

Nick:

hearing our lovely voices only again. Yeah.

Alexander:

I, of course, am Alexander Krisek. With me is Nick, and, Nick is my brother, and Jeff is my father. Jeff dad. Jeff dad. Yeah.

Alexander:

I almost said dad. There's that's why there was that hesitation. I was like, Jeff, dad, dad, Jeff.

Jeff:

Yep. Brother.

Alexander:

Yeah. So someone talked to me. Nick, I think, talked to me about what are we drinking first here?

Nick:

Okay. So, I mean, I've given I've been given the role of of alcohol guy at this point. Curator. Yeah. So once again, we're drinking another, local to our area.

Nick:

This is from, Random Row, as a local brewery. So this time, we're drinking beers or sours, nothing like really hard, and we're starting it off with a red ale. I think it it is Scouser red ale, called Liverpool, but it was made here locally. And we went to the brewery and had it on draft, and it was really, solid. Yeah.

Alexander:

Without further ado. Nice. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.

Alexander:

Start off right. Yep.

Jeff:

Always good.

Nick:

I mean, yeah, it's it's a really solid one.

Jeff:

I mean, I don't think it's it's not anything that's crazy or wild like the sours that we're about to taste. Yeah. But definitely, it's a solid choice. I also have a stout that was a solid choice too.

Nick:

I think I think

Alexander:

it warms

Nick:

or appetites the palate Yeah. To to really continue this.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Alexander:

Yeah. Speaking of appetizing our palate,

Nick:

dad, why don't you start

Alexander:

us off here? We're we're talking about villains. So, yeah, last time we had heroes, which was kind of like what do we envision as a hero and what's kind of like some of our favorite heroes through media. So we're gonna do the same thing about villains. And I think kind of like heroes, villain is kind of such a an abstract word and can mean so much in different forms of media.

Alexander:

So I'm really interested to hear what y'all have and and why you chose your villain.

Nick:

Do you wanna define a villain,

Alexander:

like, real quick?

Jeff:

No. Is it is

Nick:

it because we're gonna have, like, a variety of,

Jeff:

like, a I I think we are gonna have a variety. When I looked up villain, it said, the bad guy, but I don't think that's always the case of the villain. I think sometimes the villain is a foil to whoever the protagonist is.

Nick:

Yeah. It's like, you know, they the villain usually

Jeff:

falls under the antagonist role, so they're usually just

Nick:

like an impediment or obstacle of the of the protagonist. Yeah.

Jeff:

I mean and and that may not be an evil person per se.

Nick:

Yeah. Yeah. Or it's, like, socially Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Nick:

They're they're just like a counter to to whatever the the norm is sometimes as well. Yeah. Alright.

Jeff:

Okay then. Alright. So, I had a really hard time with this. I I have this very bad habit of never remembering who the villain is because I I could really care less. I'm always focused on how the protagonist is overcoming these things.

Jeff:

And and most of them and we were kinda joking about this is that there were some people we were looking at villains, and each one of them had a great plan until they interacted with the protagonist, and then it all fell apart. And it doesn't seem realistic. So my first villain is someone that succeeded in what they did, but then eventually became overcome, and that was Thanos. And although this is kind of a traditional villain kind of person, I invested so much time in the movies I know. For the conclusion of Thanos in the Marvel cinema universe.

Jeff:

Yeah. And, I think he was driven by what he thought was the right answer. Mhmm. And I think evil for evil's sake is just not interesting to me, but someone doing evil because they think that that's the right answer. That is the way to resolve the issue is to evil.

Jeff:

Is because in the end of it I know at the end of the first part of infinity war, Thanos goes off and does what he said he was gonna do. He's gonna live by himself. He destroyed the stones, and he was just farming. He was simple life. He did not want power as a villain.

Jeff:

He wanted to he what he thought was helping the universe. And so as a villain, he had a noble purpose. He just did it in a very bad way. And so besides being a typical villain, it's also a villain that I can, I have I can remember because it's not traditional evil? So that's my first choice.

Nick:

I think I think he's, like, really special because he did have such a, like, buildup

Jeff:

Right.

Nick:

Opposed to a lot of villains. I think my issue with villains not not really issue, but, like, what I'm sad about is is villains don't get enough time for you to really, like, understand them or really fall in love with them sometimes. And I think Thanos, like, he got his his moments to really, like, build up, like, over the years of the MCU coming out. I think it really showed, like, the presence. Right?

Nick:

Like, he has this this air to him. He's always had this plan. Like, even before, we knew exactly what was going on. Right.

Alexander:

Yeah. I think what you said really resonates with me in the fact that, like, villains that are just, like, evil for evil's sake don't really resonate as much because you're like, well, like, that's not I can't really gleam anything from that. Like, I don't know. I'm not. When I, as the viewer, watch it, I'm like, I'm that's kinda crazy.

Alexander:

Like, I'm I don't it doesn't really make any sense to me. But in in in a villain that has, like, a noble purpose, you can at least sort of empathize or with them or at least, like, kind of understand where they're coming from where it's like, he's doing what he thinks is right even if, like, we know super not correct, but sometimes it doesn't always work out

Jeff:

like that. That's why when I look at villains like, Friday 13th or Halloween or something like that, those are purely entertainment because it's a a two dimensional evil character.

Nick:

They're sort of, like, abstract villains that, like, their place is just too too frightened. Right. Right? Like, the depth of their character is usually shown off screen or through, like, a, like, a, you know, extra explanation if you really wanna learn about them.

Alexander:

Right.

Jeff:

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Alright. I'm done.

Alexander:

Alright, Nick. What what are what are you bringing to the table for number 1 villain here?

Nick:

I think I'm doing an unconventional one to begin with. Okay. I I think this wouldn't end up on a lot of people's lists. I'm choosing Hades specifically from the animated Hercules movie.

Jeff:

Mhmm.

Nick:

Exclusively because it's such a an animated and, like, vibrant villain that you see. And, like, he's go on. Excuse me. He's, like, not really a villain that you're like, oh, I hate this guy. You're like, gosh.

Nick:

What a bother. But, like, you know how bad he is. But he's so so charismatic in, like, a humorous and charming way that I, like he wasn't the first one I thought of. But, like, when I was there, oh, I I wanna talk about him just because he's so he's so fiery. Like, he he's he's the sort of, like he's comically evil.

Nick:

I think he's, like, how it is. He he is doing something, like, against the mortals. He's he's trying to it's the standard Hades where he's like, I hate the gods in Mount Olympus. I'm stuck down in in the underworld. Yeah.

Nick:

Oh, and this, like, upstart god. I don't want any I wanna, like, ruin him.

Alexander:

Right now,

Nick:

it's like, it feels like he's, like, on the borderline of, like, a loony tune villain where he's, like, he's, like, a dastardly sort of wheel. But he talks well, and he's, like, so charismatic and, like, he's got the typical, like, henchman that he he throws about. I think he's just so charming and and, like, a joy to see. Like, usually, like, when you see the villain, you're like, oh, what kind of, like, evil things he's gonna do to make you hate him more? Yeah.

Nick:

But, like, usually when you see him on screen, he's like, okay. He's gonna say something kinda funny and then, like, still might do something evil. Yeah. Yeah.

Alexander:

I think I feel like may there's been kind

Nick:

of a trend

Alexander:

of, like, making these villains, like you said, that you want to hate or, like, need to hate. Yeah. And so, like, they're doing, like, horrible stuff in, like, very graphic fashion. Yeah. And, like, I think in a way, kind of a breath of fresh air or old air,

Jeff:

if

Nick:

you like, how old Hades is at

Alexander:

this point. But still a a very fun character. I I like that choice.

Jeff:

Alright. Your turn. What are you doing?

Alexander:

What's your first? Alright. Okay. Okay. We talked about this a little bit off off screen, off stage, if you will.

Alexander:

And we all I think I think all of us kinda struggled in the regard of finding a a good villain.

Nick:

Yeah.

Alexander:

And I think a part of that comes from the fact that, like, oftentimes, the villain is some sort of force in the background from the protagonist or the main character. So when it comes to heroes, I feel like it's a lot easier for us to just follow the hero and kind of grow with them. But the villain is sort of this amorphous force in the far distance that eventually shows up to be, like, conquered or defeated like a Bowser in Super Mario.

Nick:

Yeah. You, like, see them every now and then.

Alexander:

Yeah. Yeah. But you don't really get to interact with them. So I I think we talked Nick and I talked about this a little bit of villains that actually interact with you during the the media that you're consuming. Yeah.

Alexander:

So my first villain is the genetic life form and disk operating system or GLaDOS from the portal series. She is the the main antagonist for most of the portal series, not the entire not the entire way, but, a very fun villain in the fact that she is constantly in your ear, constantly, like, roasting you or being, like, sarcastic about your character, and just kind of may making, like, witty and kinda snide remarks to you throughout the entirety of the game. And I think it's, the game's plural, both portal 1 and portal 2. And I think it's she's just like such a fun character because she's kind of that annoying evil villain, but you're also interacting with her the whole time. And I think that's a lot of fun.

Alexander:

And I think the character also goes through, like, phases where, like, GLaDOS is in control of everything. There's a section of the game where she is not in control of anything because she's a potato.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Alexander:

And we get to see those kind of, like, moments where she goes from, like, all powerful to, like, you need to pick her up and protect her from, like, crows being, like, trying to eat her.

Nick:

You were she's skewered on your gun.

Alexander:

Just hammered on your portal gun.

Nick:

Just talking to you. Yeah. I I think she's, like, this weird dynamic as a villain because, like, yeah, she's, like, all knowing, all powerful, basically. Yeah. You are you're an ant walking in her land.

Nick:

It's usually how it, like, feels. But at at the same time, it's, like, she kinda needs you for a lot of, like, moments. Mhmm. Like, you're you're, like, the subject of attention. And, like, it it leads to this weird dynamic where you're, like, she's the villain, but also, like, I'm kind of her, like, sidekick.

Nick:

Like, the new character is, like, a a sidekick to, like, GLaDOS's plan. True. You're just, like, inconveniencing her plan.

Jeff:

Yeah. She can't really do

Nick:

that much against you Yeah. Until, like, really needs to, like, change. And I I think yeah. She's so compelling. And and This is the dry humor is, like, always good.

Alexander:

My gosh. The humor is so good in the portal game. So funny.

Jeff:

But but what what I think is funny is that we selected 3 separate media for our first villains.

Alexander:

That's true.

Jeff:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Alexander:

You you went with the live action movies.

Jeff:

Yeah. I mean, I think that I'm gonna be more likely to do that because I'm not a big anime follower or video game player. So I'm gonna have a tendency to lean toward that.

Alexander:

I think it is something to note here. Nick and I are, you know, fans of anime. We just couldn't really

Nick:

Spoiler alert. We don't have an anime villain. Yeah. Like, we feel like really tops other media villains.

Alexander:

Yeah. I I think that I don't know. Just the way that the media is set up and sometimes a lot of anime villains are kind of I don't wanna say forgettable because that feels a bit cold, but sometimes they they don't really live up or are as impactful or have the same depth as some other medias that we we think. Yeah. And that just might be nostalgia talking, and being like, you know, I I remember playing the portal games when I was a lot younger and really enjoying it.

Nick:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we have, like, choices that are a little, like, a little newer. We'll see.

Jeff:

That's true. We'll see.

Nick:

Alright. Next drink?

Jeff:

Do we wanna take a break?

Alexander:

We'll be right back after an ad from our sponsor. Alright. We're on to drink number 2 here. Nick, what are we drinking?

Nick:

We are drinking Barry Styles. Lovingly named after, I assume, Harry Styles on the art of the can. But it is, like, a very vibrant and, like, potent sour. I think it's very tasty. It's one of the most, like, like, in your face kind of drinks and sours that they had.

Nick:

And I think it's very yummy and tasty. And it is it's watermelon, blueberry, and blackberry.

Jeff:

So very summery.

Alexander:

Very summery. Very fruity.

Nick:

Yep. You would definitely, like, enjoy it on, like, a warm day. Yeah. Or in a warm studio.

Alexander:

Yeah. As we are in. Alright. Cheers. Cheers.

Alexander:

Yeah. I like that.

Jeff:

Yeah.

Alexander:

I know. I think that's fun.

Jeff:

Well, the the thing about it is that you have this watermelon, which is kind of a mellow taste. You have the blueberry, which is sweet, and then it and it's really sour. Yeah. And then at the end of it, as it's finishing, you get a little bit of that blackberry taste. So you

Nick:

get, like, the blackberry tart?

Alexander:

Yeah. Mhmm.

Jeff:

So it's it's definitely a very sour tortoise, really.

Jeff:

Yeah. Yeah.

Alexander:

I I almost pucker when

Jeff:

I'm Yeah. Exactly. But, yeah, it almost has a, like, a sour candy kinda taste.

Nick:

Yeah. Yeah.

Alexander:

Yeah. I agree. But I I like it. I think this is really fun drink.

Jeff:

And

Alexander:

this is definitely something that I'd love to, like, be sitting outside, like, sipping on in in the summer sun. Hopefully, when it's not too, too hot.

Nick:

So true.

Alexander:

Alright, Nick. Kick us off with our 2nd villain.

Nick:

Villain number 2. I'm going with a newer one that I feel like sort of, added to, like, such a the the collection of really, really strong villains recently, which is Silco from Oh. Arcane. He's sort of like a villain that, like, blindsides you. Because you Yeah.

Nick:

Arcane was, like, an anomaly on, like, many, many counts.

Jeff:

Because

Nick:

you're just like, oh, a a League of Legends, television show. What are they gonna do there? And then they introduce, like, a brand new character as, like, the villain Mhmm. For the for the series. Obviously, you had, like, a really, really strong supporting cast and main cast with, like, characters that were were from the game that, like, really populated and, like, filled the space.

Nick:

Dope. But I think adding, like, Silco as as, like, the villain. Right? Like, you can do so much with and, like, he's he's added, like he's he gives such a mystique compared to everyone else. Right?

Nick:

Like, I knew when I was watching it, I was like, oh, oh my gosh. There's Jace's hammer. There's Yeah. There's Vi's gauntlets. But, like, for Silco, it's like he's he's like a brand new entity that they're introducing, which which leads him to, like, oh, I have to I have to learn about this character.

Jeff:

We can maybe talk about arcane in a different one, but arcane was special because it didn't it wasn't tied to the game. I think a lot of these video games and, cartoons lose something because they try to stick to the game. Yeah. Well, I Or they try to

Alexander:

do that. Like, way too far.

Nick:

Yeah. It's either they just retell the story

Jeff:

Right.

Nick:

Which is usually unsuccessful, or they just go on such like a a side path that, like Yeah. It loses the, like, the integrity of the original character.

Alexander:

The Assassin's Creed movie comes to mind. Yeah.

Nick:

There's a lot of bad examples that

Jeff:

we can go through. Well, then we can go live action anime also. So

Nick:

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Jeff:

That's right. That's like a can of worms we've

Alexander:

done for Omen right now. I like Silco. I think that's that's, like, a a fun character choice. Again, it it's one of those villain choices where I think Silco knows that a lot of what he's doing is not the, like, morally correct option. But I think it also it feels like he's, like, pushed into a corner, forced to do it, because he he's thinking it's it's the benefit of the, like, the under underground people Yeah.

Alexander:

The underworld people.

Nick:

I think I think Silco is he sees himself as, like, I have to do it Yeah. Because no one else will. Right? Like, it sparked from, like, Vander, the guy who protects on is like, I'm not gonna fight. And, like, he he sees that as as, like, the issue.

Nick:

Right? And I think Silco is so compelling. So compelling. I think small spoilers if you're not familiar, with, like, the whole Silco situation. But he's so he's so compelling because he he starts off criticizing Vander

Jeff:

Mhmm.

Nick:

For for allowing to sell himself to have this weakness, AKA, Powder slash Jinx and Vi. Right? Having these, like, daughters where he's like, I just want peace no matter what I have to sacrifice in order to keep them safe. Yeah. And Silco is like, I'll sacrifice everything in order to to make sure that Zaun is is, like, how it should be.

Nick:

Yeah. And I think as the story progresses, I think throughout the most part, like, Silco maintains his his sanity and his mental. But it's it's the issue where he becomes, like, emotionally, like, chaotic or or or, like, un unregulated Yeah. Where where he's like, I have raised this this daughter of my my friend on a whim. Also a

Alexander:

really strange relationship that that they have. Yeah.

Nick:

Jinx and Silco are, like, such a a weird dynamic.

Jeff:

Yeah. I think

Nick:

it feeds into it. It's it's not a it's not a Joker or Harley Quinn. It's almost like a weird, like, parasitic sim like,

Alexander:

symbiotic image. Yeah.

Nick:

It might be closer to, like, a a Venom and an and, an Eddie.

Alexander:

Yeah. An Eddie Brock situation.

Jeff:

Or Thanos and Gamora. Gamora.

Jeff:

Sort of. But they're both

Alexander:

But, like, I think the Thanos Gamora is much closer to, like, a father daughter kind of situation where, like, Silco and and, like, Jinx is such a a weird

Jeff:

No. But as you were talking about it, I was thinking how similar the drive for your purpose is for both Silco and Thanos.

Nick:

I Yep. And then and then they hit the the resolve is issue where, once again, spoilers. But, like, Thanos, his resolve is is steel throughout the entire time. In order to get the soul infinity stone, he sacrifices Gamora. She's dead.

Jeff:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nick:

When when Silco reaches that equivalent where Piltover is like, give us Jinx, and we'll start negotiating for Zon's independence. Yeah. He he has what he's wanted, like, the entire time right there, right in front of right in front of him. Like, that's his goal. That is his one thing.

Nick:

And then He can't sacrifice. He can't do it. And I feel like that adds to Silga would be a cold, uncaring, like, methodical villain. And not to say that he wouldn't be, like, intriguing if he if he'd sacrifice Jinx. But adding to this layer where he's like, I've I've become the person I've criticized the most.

Nick:

Mhmm. Right? Like, Vander, oh, he's just a weakling now because he he has a daughter, something to protect and lose. Therefore, like, you you've lost. Yeah.

Nick:

And he gets to that same exact point and realizes it. And I think that he's such a magical character.

Alexander:

Yeah. Man, you're making me wanna go back and watch rewatch Arcane again because

Jeff:

I know you almost you almost pulled it up the other night. I do wanna go watch it again only because Season 2. Season 2 is coming up. Yeah.

Alexander:

Season 2 is coming up, which is very exciting. Okay. Yeah. I'll I'll go next.

Jeff:

That was

Nick:

a little rant. Sorry.

Alexander:

No. I

Nick:

love that.

Alexander:

It's so much fun. And I I love kinda talking about characters like that, like Silco. And I feel like you have such a a good analysis of these characters. My second character kind of follows in the footsteps of GLaDOS, and also perhaps one of the most recognizable villains in all of video game, history. And that, of course, is Handsome Jack from the Borderlands series.

Alexander:

Yeah. And this goes back to, I think, a couple of things, and and I'll kinda touch on these as we go. But a couple of things. I think one of them, of course, is the fact that Handsome Jack is the villain. He's kind of the the end goal, but also is constantly talking to you, is constantly in your head making jokes, making fun of you, offering you money to kill yourself, or, just like like a bunch of things.

Alexander:

I think he's a a very fun character. He's very silly, in that regard, kind of similar to Glados. I think something interesting about Jack is he thinks he's the good guy the entire way through. He believes it with his heart and soul. Even if he does horrible things, he thinks it's in in, like it's, like, his given right, essentially.

Alexander:

Like, he is he is the hero of this story, and he will not be convinced otherwise. And I know you guys haven't seen The Boys, but it is very similar to Homelander in that sense where, like, I'm the good no matter what. So I think Jack is is a really fun character in that regard and also kind of makes you, like, stop and pause occasionally because you're like, what? What did he just say? While also making, like, crazy remarks about diamond studded horses or whatever.

Alexander:

The butt butt stallion. Yeah. Butt stallion.

Jeff:

Not not with diamonds on it. Made

Nick:

out of diamonds. Yeah. He properly, like, clarifies that and also calls you pumpkin and sweetheart. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick:

He the answer jack is so so endearing. Yeah.

Alexander:

Because he he's so charismatic.

Nick:

Yeah. And he he's with the the GLaDOS, like, adjacent where, yeah, they're with you the entire time. Yeah. Like like, there's rarely a moment where Jack isn't, like, bombarding you with insults or complaints or just, oh, here's an update in my life. Right?

Nick:

Like, he calls you while he's eating. He calls you when he just woke up. You know, like, it's you're in a he you create a relationship with this this character even though you don't talk. Yeah. I think he adds it even more.

Alexander:

Yeah. Again, very similar to Gladys portal. You don't talk. You don't say anything. Borderlands, you don't say anything.

Alexander:

You just kind of get hung get on his nerves by just doing what you're doing. Just existing. By just existing. Yeah. I was going back and and watching some clips through Borderlands, and there are just some some incredible moments, some really funny moments with Handsome Jack as as that, like, focal point of just being not a not a good person, but also being, like, so so funny, I I think.

Jeff:

Yeah. Alright. Alright.

Nick:

Your second villain?

Jeff:

Yeah. My second villain. So once again, I'm I'm gonna go to movies, and I am gonna pick, Hannibal Lecter. Mhmm. And the the main reason for that is that when I saw silence of the lamb the first time, I was in, France and did not know anything about the movie.

Jeff:

I was on submarines at that time, so traveling around. And all of a sudden, this movie came out, and it was really popular. Did not know anything about it. And then I saw it, and I was like, what the heck did I just see? Because there had been, a Michael Mann movie based on the same character, but it was very different.

Jeff:

And the Michael Mann one looked a lot, a lot like, what was the, Miami Vice? How did Miami Vice look

Alexander:

to him?

Jeff:

So because he was doing that, and then he did this one, which was one of the other books, and it was very different. Yeah. And so when I saw this and it came out, and I just think that the he was evil, but he was so, like you said, charismatic. Mhmm.

Nick:

You

Jeff:

know? And although he was evil, there were points when he he had this code of this this standard this code of standards, which was it was totally warped. Yeah. But, like, in the the one part where he makes the other prisoner choke on his own tongue, because he he did he spoke badly to Jodie Foster, the Jodie Foster character. And so after he tormented Jodie Foster, when the other one tormented her, he took offense at it.

Jeff:

So the it was just it's one of those things. They they talk about in the movie, there's a line, and he said, yes. He they he beat that person to death, and his heartbeat never went about 60. So it was analytical and just evil. And yet at the end of it, he goes, I won't come after you because I think the world's better with you there.

Jeff:

So he has this this code that's really warped, and so it's it's a memorable character. And it just it's like it's that you would never know he was a villain or evil until it's too late. Right. You know? Which which I think is intriguing because it's a it's an interesting character.

Jeff:

You know? So, anyways, that's my second choice.

Nick:

I I think Hannibal is is also he's he's like the the borderline of, like, evil just for evil's sake Yeah. But also adds to I'm gonna I'm gonna nerd out a little bit. Oh my gosh. In in regards to, like, Hannibal Lecter is what defines, like, a lawful evil Right. To to a chaotic evil.

Nick:

Right? He isn't just, like, a vindictive, like, evil person. Yeah. Like, he he is so twisted in in his own morals, and ethics that he's sort of created this this rule set that he thinks is is the correct way to approach the world while having this, like, very strong and charismatic air to him. And I think I think that that gives him, like, another layer to, like, really, like, analyze and appreciate, not only from an acting or writing sense, but from, like, a presentation of of a character that usually would be just thrown away, honestly.

Nick:

Yeah. Like, like, a sort of one off. Like, almost like a more like, a a like a a Moriarty version that would've been just like, oh, they're he's just a crazier Moriarty.

Jeff:

Right.

Nick:

Get rid of him.

Alexander:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff:

Yeah. And I think that the the Michael Mann one really played down the character structure of the the, mass murderer, but I think Anthony Hopkins really made it a very median attentive acting job where you wanted to look at how he was doing it and what he was doing. And I think that I don't think a lot of people could have pulled it off as exacting as he did.

Nick:

No. I I think that was, like, such a strong choice.

Jeff:

And and it was something he would have never done before. I mean, he was doing classical, you know, period movies and Shakespeare and all this stuff. It just it's it's it was remarkable it was remarkable to to take a chance on someone like that Yeah. To play that role. And it was also remarkable for him to say, hey.

Jeff:

I'll play that role.

Nick:

Yeah. Exactly. Like, I wanna try this. Yeah. Like, to be able to dive into that sort of persona is like

Jeff:

Yeah. That's crazy.

Alexander:

I think something else that makes these characters more, like, scary and villainous is, like, what you were saying and, like, the fact that, like, he's always calm and collected and very calculating, which is, like, kind of against, like, human nature where when we think of, like, evil people, we we think of Demonic.

Nick:

Yeah. Like deranged.

Jeff:

Yeah. Deranged. Yeah.

Alexander:

And I think Handsome Jack kinda falls in that same line where Handsome Jack is, like, talking about a story where he's scooping out someone's eyeballs, and he's, like, laughing, like, hysterically. Like like, it's a joke. And it's these kind of, like, kind of opposing what you expect the evil person to do or,

Nick:

like, what a human would do or talk about these sort of situations.

Jeff:

Yeah. The it's the juxtaposition of evil on top of, like, common day.

Nick:

Yeah. Yeah. Where it like, this is their norm. Yeah. And it, like, shouldn't be seen otherwise from their perspective Right.

Nick:

Which just makes an alluring, like, villain.

Jeff:

It does.

Nick:

Because it's it it adds to such a depth and, like, intrigue. Yeah.

Alexander:

Alright. Alright. That one. For our I was gonna say 3rd and final drink, but we actually have 3rd and 4th as our final drinks. Nick, what what do we got here?

Nick:

Okay. So these are our acronym, Salvers. Both, describing the fruits that are made with them, the berry styles was sort of just a funny, fun name. And whatever pop culture reference these are in reference to will briefly cover not really.

Alexander:

Not really.

Nick:

But we have the pog, the p o g, which is a passion fruit orange and guava, sour.

Jeff:

Mhmm.

Nick:

And then over here, we have the w a p or the wop, which is a white peach, apricot, and pineapple. Yeah. Sour.

Jeff:

So we're gonna we're gonna do the WAP first? Sure.

Alexander:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick:

Why not?

Alexander:

Alright. Cheers. Cheers.

Jeff:

Not as sour, but that peach is what comes through when you initially

Nick:

taste it. Mainly tasting the peach right now.

Alexander:

I think after the berry, like, this feels like a much more muted taste than I was expecting. It smells really strong.

Jeff:

And

Alexander:

you take a a, like, a a drink of it, and it's it's not as strong as I thought it was gonna be.

Jeff:

The thing I find amazing about this is it has the peach taste when you bite into a peach. It's not a fake peach. It it feels it tastes like when you're biting into a fresh peach.

Nick:

It's like the difference between, like, eating the actual fruit and having the, like, extract or, like, the artificial flavoring.

Alexander:

Even though this may have the

Nick:

It says contains real fruit.

Jeff:

It may. Yeah.

Nick:

I don't know. It

Jeff:

doesn't matter. That's how it feels when you bite into it. Alright.

Alexander:

Are we gonna talk about villains, or are we gonna drink, the second one here?

Nick:

Let's let's drink the second one so we don't have to, like, really stop and be like, okay. Let's try it. Yeah. Alright. Let's let's just do the next one, and then we'll sip on the other one.

Nick:

Both. So

Jeff:

sip on both of them. So pastries,

Nick:

orange guava. Once again, a more subtle I think the berry cells is just such a, like, a in the base sort of one. And these 2 are like

Jeff:

We definitely did a lowering of sourness with each one. I was

Alexander:

about to say, is this even a sour? This does not taste very sour, but I kinda like it.

Nick:

Yeah. It's like a very smooth, just sort of

Alexander:

it's closer

Nick:

to a cider, I would say. Yeah.

Alexander:

I agree. So pretty good. Alright. 3rd and final villains. I'll kick us off here.

Alexander:

For my last 2, obviously, I was doing video games, and very interactive villains. So I think I'll round us off with something a little bit different. And, of course, I've gotta shout out Avatar the Last Airbender. And it has a lot of great characters, but a lot of those characters I feel like are are even if they're bad guys, they're not really bad guys. Prince Zuko kind of really comes to mind as a character that is, like, kind of a villain, but also not really, at the end of the day.

Alexander:

So I think for villains here, Princess Azula is my choice. Definitely one of those characters that you love to hate. Yeah. She is definitely one of those characters that you're like, oh, no. She's just gonna mess up everything that they put in place and will be a real hindrance.

Alexander:

I think you have the Fire Lord kind of in the distance as that big bad boss, that Bowser, that impending doom, but you don't get to see a lot of him. You just know that he's not a great guy.

Nick:

He's a bad guy.

Jeff:

He's a bad guy.

Alexander:

Yeah. And I think Princess Azula, you really get to see more of her in not only the villain role of being a one of the major kind of barriers and roadblocks to the avatar and the party. But, also, there are several moments where you get to see more kind of personable moments of her talking in, you know, with her brother or talking with the friends or even, like, sitting down talking with, like, the avatar with Aang in kind of like a, oh, okay. You're not immediately trying to kill these people. Interesting.

Jeff:

Yeah. Plus, I think that the the interaction with her friends really brings out her character a lot. Yeah. You know? I I think that that was a critical part to make her understandable.

Jeff:

Not not endearing, but at least understandable. I

Alexander:

think a a more rounded character. Yeah. Because when we talk about these villains that are kind of, like, standing in the distance of just being, like, they're pure evil. So, like, Sauron, right, is just, like, an amorphous, like, idea essentially for most of the time. Yeah.

Alexander:

When you see the villain, like, interacting with friends, with other people, you see more of the personality that isn't just like, I wanna murder babies or whatever.

Jeff:

Well, I think that she has, like, four sides of interaction. She interacts with her brother. She interacts with her father and Yeah. The court, and she interacts with her friends, and then she also interacts with Aang. Yeah.

Jeff:

Yeah. And I think that that just provides once again, we always talk about villains aren't usually interesting because they're 2 dimensional. Yeah. You know? And that's uninteresting to anybody.

Jeff:

Yeah. I

Nick:

I think what's even more, fascinating about Azula is I would say she is one of the few villains that has the time and and is given the time to to be alone and get, like, this monologue. I'm specifically thinking, like, at the end of the series where she is talking to her mother.

Jeff:

Mhmm.

Nick:

Right? When she's, like, mentally, like, breaking down. Right? And I feel like that is such a special moment that she has on, like, many, many levels. Whether her mom is there or not doesn't matter.

Nick:

Right? Like, her mom is telling her things that she knows her mom is gonna say. So that's like it doesn't add anything additional, but it gives her the the sense of, like, I have everything I want. Yeah. I should be, like, elated.

Nick:

Like, I should be on, like, the highest, like, sort of feeling.

Jeff:

Mhmm.

Nick:

But, like, in this moment, she's just, like she feels, like, finally it's like giving her, like, a character. Because she's, like, finally she's, like, a sociopath.

Jeff:

Yeah. Yeah. She's like because

Nick:

she she's like, I will throw away any person. I'll sacrifice anything. I'll kill my family. I'll kill my friends. I'll throw everything away.

Nick:

And then when she's alone, has what she wanted, she just is empty. Yeah. And I think that is so special.

Alexander:

It's also one of those characters that I I just, like, feel feel kinda really bad for her.

Nick:

Yeah.

Alexander:

We feel really sad at the end, which isn't always the case. Like, if the villain is just like some giant monster, they you don't often have that moment to be like, oh. And I think it is because you see those other facets of her of, like, kind of personalizing her as as a real person in the show

Nick:

Yeah.

Alexander:

Instead of, like, just the big bad.

Jeff:

Yeah. She's not just there to inflict Yeah. Yeah.

Nick:

And she's she's also you see her in, like, maybe like a a hero setting sometimes as well. I'm specifically thinking of when when they're on vacation. Mhmm. And and they get invited to the house party, and you're like, wow. Bunch of jerks here.

Nick:

I hate the Fire Nation. And, like, Azula where you're like, okay. She's gonna join in. You're gonna hate her more. She, like, kind of takes a role where you're like, is she that bad?

Nick:

Yeah. Is she, like, tearing up the house? And she's like she's being still an awful person, but doing it to also to bad people. Yeah. Right?

Nick:

And you're you feel like, okay. She isn't doing what's right. But, like, in this moment, you feel good because she's doing it to to other bad people.

Alexander:

Yeah. Yeah. Alright.

Nick:

Dad. Yeah.

Alexander:

I think you're up next. So,

Jeff:

once again, I'm gonna go to a movie.

Alexander:

Okay.

Jeff:

The Matrix, I think, was such a different different movie that that the actor that pay played agent Smith Smith. Yeah. Had played other roles. But what is he gonna be known for is probably that role.

Alexander:

And I think Lord of the Rings.

Jeff:

Elrond. Yeah. Oh, that's just a small role he played.

Nick:

Oh, yeah.

Jeff:

Yeah. We we were joking about this. It's like, oh, is Elrond the bad guy? But, yeah, I just think that it's such an iconic and different role. But I think for me, the reason that I picked that as a villain and it's not really him.

Jeff:

It's it's the actual computer.

Alexander:

Yeah.

Jeff:

Yeah. But the reason that that villain sticks with me is it's the computer in its very nature is not evil. It's really reflecting people. Right? Because, you know, if you wanna take the kind of, oh, the the man is oppressing me kind of attitude, you can say, well, this is what corporations do with their workers.

Jeff:

Or you can say that, humans want to be in that role of not being in control. Right? Yeah. And I think that it brings out it really shows a reflection of the base and bad nature of a lot of people. Mhmm.

Jeff:

And so I don't think it represents one evil villain. I think it represents the evil of all humankind. And so it's to me, it was a really deep character in that sense, and I don't think that the Neo as a as a good guy really wasn't a good guy in that he just was present.

Alexander:

Yeah. I was I was gonna say something similar where he's just kind of, like, going with the the motions, essentially.

Nick:

He's someone who, like, wants to break out of this cycle, but, like, doesn't have the results really, like,

Jeff:

push

Nick:

through it all. Yeah. So he, like, he wants to deviate. But, like, I don't think he want he never wanted to be the hero. Yeah.

Nick:

Like and and especially with everyone putting him on the pedestal, he was like, no. No. No. No. And, like, I feel like Agent Smith is, like, is such a fun character because of his, like, like, active, role he took into, Neo's life after, like, Neo started deviating.

Nick:

Right? Like, ages

Jeff:

Because he started deviating. Yeah. Exactly. So which to me is is one of those the foil kind of Yeah. Should be going against it going against what he was programmed to do.

Jeff:

Because the other 2 guys that were there stayed with the computer, but he became a virus within the computer. Yeah. Because, like, in the second movie where there's more. This is more, more, and there's more and more agent Smiths. Yeah.

Jeff:

It's just crazy. Like, Trulia, they're

Nick:

just like a force. Yeah. Like a

Jeff:

Like a virus.

Nick:

Yeah. Like a virus.

Alexander:

They they've literally pushed. And I think this is what makes certain villains interesting is that they're pushing each other to change Yeah. And to, you know, become different in in whatever that looks like. In the matrix, it looks like, I don't know, more outlandish powers and and, you know, becoming less real as they kind of, like, fight their way through the matrix.

Jeff:

Yeah. But Neo can't become Neo without agent Smith being there. Exactly.

Nick:

Yeah. I think so.

Jeff:

You know, because I think that by him deviating, it makes Neo deviate also.

Nick:

Yeah. Because because he feels like he shouldn't or can't or doesn't need to. I think that's the Neo is, like he's on the borderline of, like well, he wants to deviate, but, like, he's still in, like, this sedation sort of mode where he's like, well, if there really isn't that big of a problem,

Jeff:

I don't need to intervene.

Nick:

But, like, agent Smith being this sort of, like, let loose

Jeff:

sort

Nick:

of, like, being that is starting to, like, corrupt people. Yeah. It's like you're like, okay. Well, I got I guess I got him. So

Alexander:

Alright, Nick. Bring us home. What is your last villain? Indeed, I will.

Nick:

Oh gosh. Arguably, the most well known villain, the one of the the greatest of the greats, carries an aura. Carries the the the everything on his shoulders every time you see him. That's none other than Anakin Skywalker, AKA Darth Vader. I feel like

Alexander:

he's Oh, spoilers.

Nick:

I know. He he is the epitome of of the villain. I think, when we talk about all of these, like, evil characters and, sort of, like, they're deranged. They think they're doing right and all this stuff. I think he he follows down that path as well where he he was tricked, and he was led down the road that he never should have ended up on.

Nick:

And I think the most compelling part of him is, like, no matter what through and through, he wanted he wants to to be the right thing. Yeah. And and his perspective is twisted not not by himself. He he is, like, a, a product of his own demise and making, but, like, the forces around him led him on this path Yeah. That he shouldn't have been on.

Nick:

I think that's, like, the one big thing. If you look at, like, comics, there's, like, always those, like, side comics where you're like, oh, Spider Man's evil. Batman's evil. Right? It's like these sort of, like, what if feelings.

Nick:

Like, all of these good characters end up as the bad one. For Star Wars, the the main, like, timeline, that's what happens. Right? Like, Anakin was the chosen one. No like, through and through, he should have been the hero.

Nick:

Like, that's he's like the prophecy. And and he's like the the bad sense of I can rewrite fate. Yeah. Or

Jeff:

right? You're right. Like, I could I could change this. And it's like, no. Wait.

Jeff:

No. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick:

It's like, oh, you're you're destined to to greatness. You're destined to bring balance. You're destined for peace. And and he ended up being the the exception to all of these, like, prophecies of higher beings, which just adds to this this character. And then we are I don't even know how long it's been since the the first Star Wars

Jeff:

movie. 76.

Nick:

Yeah. It's it's been a minute. But he's still I no matter what no matter how Star Wars goes or whatever media properties, however it's transforming in this time, Darth Vader will, like, forever be this, like, immovable force of nature. Right? Like, I think we talk about the depth of characters, and and Darth Vader definitely has it, especially his, like, journey from episodes 1 through 6.

Nick:

Yep. But but in every other piece of media and and part of the main series, he's always been this this force of nature. Yeah. He he's he's rarely been like, oh, we'll sit down, chat him, pick out his brain. It's like he is this stone cold monster almost feeling.

Nick:

He feels almost like a horror character

Alexander:

Yeah.

Jeff:

At some points

Nick:

because he's knocking on the door.

Jeff:

Mhmm.

Nick:

He's suffocating an entire room of stormtroopers

Alexander:

or or rebels. Right? He he has this, like,

Nick:

such an air of power. He grabs ships out of the air and pulls them back down. He's known to to grab moons and manipulate them. Right? He he is this monster that if any he's he's he's the Star Wars boogeyman.

Nick:

Yeah. Yeah. Like, the the breathing. That's that's how you know he's here.

Jeff:

Well, the other thing that we talked about is that and he's such a force that the emperor character becomes a shadow of what he could have been. Yeah. Because when we talk of we we talked about this is that the emperor could have been a really bad guy, but he became less bad as they made more movies. And he just became 2 dimensional.

Nick:

Well, he just became less intimidating because they added, like, so much stuff on top

Jeff:

of him

Nick:

that makes his core it it is this, like, air of mystique.

Alexander:

Yeah. I think Darth Vader, as you said, kind of like perfectly encompasses like an interesting character with an interesting backstory while also still maintaining that big bad feeling of being, like, scary. Like you said, a horror horror villain kind of vibes where he is still, like, powerful and untouchable, it feels, at times Yeah. Where he's just, like, going through Rebels. And it it feels like you that times where it's like, how how can how can I even beat beat them?

Alexander:

I feel like in our list here, we we didn't really have one of those kind of, like, super intimidating, super cool bad guys.

Jeff:

Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, I think that the so in 4, 5, and 6, the original 3 movies, he was already bad.

Nick:

Yeah.

Jeff:

Yeah. And 12, he was on that path to being bad. I think that when they made him go to the, the school and kill all the children

Nick:

The genetemite

Jeff:

gods. Yes. Yes. Yeah. That's that's when it it went over that thing where you're like, this guy is evil.

Alexander:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I it goes back to, like, being a super iconic villain.

Jeff:

Right? Like, you think about

Alexander:

the breathing that's Darth Vader. You think about the choking that's Darth Vader.

Jeff:

You think about the younglings of being killed. Like, that's Darth Vader. Anakin. Yeah. So but thank goodness you're here.

Nick:

And then, like, lightsaber turns on. Right? Yeah. It's you seeing the transformation of Anakin, and no no other villain has gotten the Anakin Skywalker Darth Vader treatment ever. No one no one no villain has gotten 3 specifically designed movies to tell his story

Alexander:

Yeah.

Nick:

And then have his, like, sort of downfall and redemption, like, catered to him. Yeah.

Jeff:

And it and it shows the strength of the character because the acting was so bad. Oh, wait. What happened? I don't know about that. Woah.

Alexander:

I feel like it's a hot

Jeff:

take there. I did not like the person they picked to play Anakin.

Alexander:

Oh, Which one? Hayden Christensen? Yeah.

Jeff:

I just thought he he came off as is that is that right? Yeah. I think so. Close to it.

Alexander:

Somewhere around there.

Jeff:

I just I just think he was such a weak character to pick. Woah.

Nick:

I think when the the time came, I think he had the the aura with him. I think he had the the energy and the I I think, like, when when people think of him, you're like, oh, he's just a brat. He's just an explaining brat.

Jeff:

But, like, he is

Nick:

I think that's, like, how he should be. I think greatness was it is to quote Shakespeare, greatness was thrust upon him and not in the innuendo way. Right? Like, he was just like a kid. Yeah.

Nick:

And then he's told, okay.

Jeff:

You're the chosen one.

Nick:

You're the chosen one. And then you have to start late. You have to meet all of these expectations. You have to fight in the Clone Wars. You have to be given all of these responsibilities while not given the benefits.

Nick:

Right? That's the whole, like

Jeff:

He's gotta still train like a newbie.

Nick:

Like a Padawan.

Jeff:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nick:

And it's like, oh, you're gonna be you're gonna have to do all this stuff, but you're not gonna be considered a master. And, like, I feel like they gave him so much to handle, which he did, but he wasn't really praised for it. Yeah. Yeah. Until, like, the emperor was like, yo.

Nick:

You're doing a good job. And he's like, finally, like, recognition for the first time in my life because it's like everyone else is like, you gotta do more. You gotta do more. You gotta do more. And I feel like with with someone called the chosen one, if you just keep stacking responsibility, no matter how incredible they are, something is gonna break.

Jeff:

Yep. Yeah.

Nick:

And then the redemption.

Jeff:

Look at child actors. Oh my god. Before we go down, I have several different marbles. Yeah.

Alexander:

Like, I feel like I'm about to start talking about Star Wars and being, like, you the emperor got kind of, like, worse by degrading. But, like, that's what they wanted to show with, like, the Sith and how it kinda just drains you, was a great political villain in the fact that, like, such a good manipulator. Yeah.

Jeff:

But, of

Alexander:

course, you know, main villain of the Star Wars series, Jar Jar Binks.

Jeff:

That's true. Because he was the main Sith. Yeah.

Nick:

Snoke or whatever. Yeah.

Alexander:

Yeah. Before we go, let's do a poll really quickly. Out of the 4 drinks we had today, which has been your favorite? I'll give you guys a second to think about that. I'll go first.

Alexander:

Okay. I really liked all of them.

Nick:

But I

Alexander:

think my favorite, in terms of the sours, I I think the the Barry Styles is gonna win it. I I think it just it really it hits hard, and I kinda really like that. It's it kind of encompasses that sour.

Jeff:

I'm with you. I want I want something interesting to drink.

Alexander:

Yeah.

Jeff:

And I think that the, the the pog is good. I just think it's not strong enough.

Alexander:

You're not pogging out of your mind?

Nick:

It it is such an upfront and, like, such a a varying, like when you drink it, you get all the layers. Yeah. I think you get the the freshness from the watermelon. You get the full taste from this, like, blueberry flavor, and then you get the very tart and, like, sour portion from the blackberry. Yeah.

Nick:

I think it's so good to drink. And, yeah, you can envision yourself pretty easily, like, on a hot day being, like, I'm chucking. You you you you. Just because they're so refreshing and, like, so potent.

Jeff:

I will make one other comment. There was another one that we tasted that was really good. It was a sour with lime.

Nick:

Yeah.

Alexander:

What is this we all left me out of this one?

Jeff:

Well, we We just not We had a survey. So so we were we were tasting it. We tasted this one, and it was so close to being picked. But it was kind of, single note. Mhmm.

Jeff:

But we joked about it is that this would be so good with mezcal or tequila in it.

Nick:

It was a salty sour Oh. With dried limes.

Jeff:

Oh, yeah. So it

Nick:

sort of tasted like the rim of a margarita.

Alexander:

Yeah. Okay.

Nick:

Yeah. That that does sound like it would get a But they didn't have cans of it. But it Yeah. Fascinating.

Jeff:

So Anyways, alright. So once again, we're gonna do the normal subscribe, like, follow-up. Do all of that. Do all of that. Do all of that.

Jeff:

Everyone's We're on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube.

Alexander:

Facebook. Podcast.

Jeff:

Yeah. You you're old like me. You're using Facebook.

Nick:

We'll see what sort of content we have up there. Yeah. But, yeah, please, I hope you enjoyed it.

Jeff:

Do we know we're gonna do an episode 3 yet? Are we still undecided?

Jeff:

I don't know yet. If if it

Nick:

changes, we'll let you know. But at this point, I think it's

Jeff:

Mentors. Mentors, I think. Mentors and teacher and Mentors. So this will be the 3rd part of a 3 part

Alexander:

Yeah. We're following the hero's journey,

Nick:

if you will here.

Jeff:

We're sort

Nick:

of, like, creating the the the perfect dynamic, basically. Like, the protagonist, antagonist.

Jeff:

And I think we already have maybe episode 4 planned, but we'll we'll

Alexander:

discuss that. Oh, okay.

Jeff:

Yeah. Wait. I don't know about that.

Alexander:

Alright. Thank you all so much.

Nick:

See you

Jeff:

next time. Hey. Thank you. Bye bye.