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First Things First by The First Things First Alaska Foundation (FTFAF) is broadcast monthly on KINY on Saturday at 9 a.m. and on KJNO on Sunday at 9 a.m. Each episode explores the balance Alaskans face: protecting our state's rugged beauty and vast wilderness while advocating for sustainable economic growth through responsible natural resource management.
With thousands of jobs lost in the past decades due to restrictive regulations, First Things First raises vital questions about the future of Alaska’s economy. Can we preserve our cherished landscapes, waterways, and wildlife while fostering prosperity for generations to come?
Join FTFAF as we explore essential areas for Southeast Alaska’s growth—highlighting education, advocacy, and smart development.
Back for our fourth episode. I can't believe this. I actually had to check with Don Havanger over here. Fourth First Things First podcast. Don, we did it.
Speaker 1:We're here.
Speaker 2:We are. Yes. It's exciting, Daniel. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I thought that would be a very, informal podcast intro right there. We did it. We're on our fourth episode, and we get to celebrate with Susan Bell, vice president of Hoonetotem today. It is your First Things First podcast. Be informed, get involved, make a difference.
Speaker 1:That's what we do on this podcast. Right, Don?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And, Susan, welcome. We're so happy to have you in here today. You are the vice president of Hoona Totem and lead on Auk Landing, which is getting lots of buzz around Juneau right now. Good job.
Speaker 3:Thank you. It's, especially last week with our open houses that were CBJ sponsored. We had a lot of people walk through. But, yeah, just wanna be sure that people realize what's happening, where we're at, and, I'm excited to get out and talk to the community.
Speaker 1:Well, we asked the question for this podcast, and I love this. It's what's in it for me, kind of speaking to the residents of Juneau. We thought that was kind of a good way to approach the Auk Landing project, you know, community benefits. And obviously, Don, why does First Things First have so much interest in this?
Speaker 2:Well, it's a great question, Daniel. And really, tourism is one of our priority issues. And the reason why we pick these priority issues is because first things first, Foundation is committed to education about responsible economic development and natural resource management in Southeast Alaska. And the whole point of that is growing our economy. Tourism tourism is an integral part of our economy, and we need to see it flourish.
Speaker 1:And it sounds like the Auk landing project kind of encompasses everything you just said right there. Right, Susan? I would say that. Right?
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So let's dive into this then. I guess, what's in it for me speaking to the Juneau residents out there? I guess, Don, what was the first thing that really caught your eye when you were looking at this?
Speaker 2:Well, I have to go back a little bit if if you don't mind, and I'm gonna go back, to my beginning in tourism here in this community. So, to do that, we go back to 1985, started in tourism, and spent a twenty four year career before I, changed horses and got on a different pathway. But during that time, you consider, Juneau. We did not have a waterfront. Well, we didn't have a completed integral waterfront from one end to the other.
Speaker 2:Today, we do, and that's because of tourism.
Speaker 1:Which is crazy to think about. That was how long ago, you said, wouldn't it?
Speaker 2:Is when I got involved in it. And so let let's just take a look at some of the improvements that Juno has seen in this time. If you go back, when I started in tourism, you have to consider the cold storage. Now many people may not remember that, that, but the cold storage was the predecessor to our library and our parking garage. Also at that time, you did not have a dock from Taku Smokeries on up, And that is a beautification of our waterfront.
Speaker 2:It benefits all of our citizens. It's a great place to walk, and that is a result of tourism. So all kinds of projects, or all kinds of infrastructure, I should say, are result of tourism in our community.
Speaker 1:Thirty nine years. Think about that. It's only 30 nine years old that it's really been focused on the waterfront of Juneau. That's still kind of, like, new in the infancy of things if you think about it.
Speaker 2:Well, we are still growing, and that's why, Auk Landing is such a integral part of our, discussion point and why we need to consider its benefits to Juno.
Speaker 1:And, Susan, that is where you come in. Why don't you give us some background on this project?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, let me just help, our listeners understand where we're talking about. This the Auk Lending site, by many people is still referred to as the sub Port. It's the property that most recently the Alaska Mental Health Trust Authority owned. It was auctioned in 2019. But even stepping back from that, Mental Health Trust themselves considered what was the best and highest use of this site.
Speaker 3:We go back to 02/3, 02/00 04/00, and they commissioned a study. Barb Sheinberg led it, and it was the it was the subport revitalization. And at that time, because this is such a unique parcel, it's got pedestrian access into downtown and easy vehicular access at that Whittier Eagan Intersection that any tour vehicle can leave easily and not drive, you know, add to the congestion downtown. It's just a beautiful parcel for what has been contemplated for many years as marina or cruise ship terminal or other mixed use. So again, it's the sub port site that, you know, there's an intersection there.
Speaker 3:And now if you if you're driving downtown or walking along the the waterfront, you would see Tracy's Crab Shack two is right there next to the coast guard. So, again, it's just helpful to get people oriented to where we're talking about this, and then what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Let's dive into
Speaker 2:the what.
Speaker 1:That is that time. The the
Speaker 3:what is what will be Juno's fifth and final cruise ship dock downtown. And, the the plan, which has been incorporating public input over five years, No Norwegian Cruise Line bought the property at that auction that I mentioned a few moments ago, went through some planning for, a couple of years, and then in and then decided in 2022 to give the property to Hoona Totem. That relationship has has, is very similar to the way docks were built over in Hoona at Icy Strait Point. Norwegian Cruise Line invested in the wilderness landing and some uplands development, and then that's, you know, that initial upfront investment was repaid with their, passenger agreements, you know, as as the ships continue to call. Similarly in Whittier, Norwegian Cruise Line bought the property, invested in the upfront dock that was just opened, this year.
Speaker 3:So again, a cruise ship here and a and year round upland development that will include year round retail restaurant, a welcome center and a new a new facility that, we're working with the Alaska Heritage Institute and Indigenous Knowledge Science and Cultural Center. So there's a lot of other public amenities that are built into this that that reflect public input. But again, that's the the core of it is a dock and uplands that will be year round high quality and serve our residents as well as visitors.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about where it's at with the city right now. You had a well attended open house you mentioned in the beginning of the show, which you're listening to the First Things First podcast. Be informed, get involved, make a difference. We're talking with Susan Bell. She's the vice president of Hoona Totem, and she is the lead on Auck Landing.
Speaker 1:Where is Auck Landing at with the city right now? You had a well attended open house, but where does it stand?
Speaker 3:Well, let me rewind. Last year, the planning commission took up took up the project, you know, through their public process, and in July 0 and Aug. 0. The the project was actually broken to two parts, but in July 0 and Aug. 0, the conditional use permits were issued.
Speaker 3:They were they were appealed, and that process, is why people haven't heard about this project for about a year and a half. That was actually resolved this summer. And as we, came out of the summer months, the busy summer months, I stepped into this role to help bring Auck Landing back into both the municipal and the public conversation. So, we just, it was before Christmas, we had a committee of the whole meeting, and also introduced the project actually in Nov. 0 at a lands committee.
Speaker 3:But in Nov. 0 in Dec. 0, at a committee of the whole meeting, the assembly outlined what they expected for the public process this spring. They wanted it they wanted two at least two, open or at least two public, meetings where people could come and learn about the project and where we are in the process. In Feb.
Speaker 3:0, the Committee of the Whole will, revisit the topic and also consider the structure of the lease. What's critical now as we're working on the upland and dock development is that the dock will extend into city owned Thailand and then into state owned submerged lands. And so that that, city Thailand's lease is a critical point for us to make the the rest of the investment that is needed, which is sizable. We can talk about that. But we expect those discussions following the February Committee of the Whole meeting to begin taking place in March 0 and April 0.
Speaker 1:So that takes place in March 0 and April 0, And then where does it go from here? Because I love looking at all these concept drawings. I love it seems like I see Don over there staring at one right now, and it says a vision for the future. And I love what this thing looks like. And then it kind of blows me away when you think about some of the amenities that you want to have in this.
Speaker 1:And Don, why don't you highlight some of this? I know you have some questions about this.
Speaker 2:Well, certainly. Cultural center is one of them. Underground parking is another. And in fact, you know, when we think about benefits to residents, it's year round parking that we have access to. So, looking for a beautified, space there on the waterfront, this cultural centers, this open space will augment the other visitor attractions that we have.
Speaker 2:And so we get many benefits from this. So not only is it part of our working waterfront, you have a dock, and it's a single vessel, cruise ship vessel dock. But we may have opportunity for coast guard partnership. And so when you think about, taking care of our military, very important. Taking a care care of our our tourism industry, having additional infrastructure, all very important.
Speaker 2:But having a beautiful edifice like this, to, kind of the crown jewel, if you will, of our waterfront, why not? It's a great idea.
Speaker 1:So going back to the original question of the show then, what's in it for me? Because I'm a Juno resident, you know, I wanna know what's in this for me. It sounds like I'm gonna get a hundred covered public parking spaces downtown so I could actually I'm gonna be covered when I park.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm pretty sure that, Hoon and Toto, will want to use the, the parking, for their benefit during this season. But off season, covered parking. No. Why not?
Speaker 3:But but I do need to I need to add because there are nearly a hundred vehicular vehicle parking spaces that will be available for employees, for customers who are coming, you know, people who are coming down to dine, to shop, to be on the seawall. So the in addition to that, there are, bus and van spaces as well. So, again, that that public parking will be available, and, you know, residents can use it. Also, one of the requirements that came from it was a recommendation from the visitor industry task force and was incorporated into the conditional use permit conditions is this dock needs to, be constructed with shore power. And we've been talking about that as I've been, as I've had a chance to talk to different community groups, rotary, and and other groups.
Speaker 3:But not only is there a strong environmental benefit for for having our ships on shore power and a safety benefit. We have nearly 60 ships at anchor this year, and 87 are in the schedule for next year. So you bring a ship that's at anchor, its engines are working harder to keep it in position, and you bring it to a dock. First of all, you have considerable environmental and safety benefits there, but also the dock will be constructed with shore power. And as we've seen with Princess, the South Franklin Dock, and Greens Creek, that interruptible those interruptible power sales agreements reduce our utility costs as residents.
Speaker 3:So, you know, again, safety environment and lowering our utility costs.
Speaker 1:You just one up the parking right there. Wow, Susan.
Speaker 3:There's other there's other things, you know, we we mentioned that a part of the conditional use permit, we're required to build the seawall around the the two faces of the of the dock that are up against the water. The community loves our seawater. Our residents use it. Our visitors use it. And so every incremental increase of that seawater just, you know, adds to the livability and the walkability of our community.
Speaker 1:Well and when you're doing the Seawall too, it kinda feels like you hit this lull. Like, you know, when you kinda hit this open space or you're kinda just staring at the water, you're like, there could be something here. So now they'll finally be something there where, you know, you hit you're right about where the gym is, and you're, like, looking across, like, there could be something here. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well and as people just sort of visualize our waterfront, I described, there's the coast guard, there's the site that we've been that we're talking about here, the subport. There's city land, and then there's a little parcel that that, AJT Mining Properties owns a dock that was, I think, originally Standard Oil. But that dock that has been unused and except for by seagulls, that dock is is sitting there. And one of the things that we're really excited about is an MOU that we just signed. Alec Mesdag, our president of AELNP is also president of the AGT Mining Trust, I think is the correct name.
Speaker 3:But we just signed the MOU early in the new year And part of the construction of Auk Landing, we've agreed to remove the derelict dock, and that will be a safety improvement in that area and then open up the possibility for other uses. So that's another, you know, it's an it's an agreement between our two organizations, but I think the community will benefit because people wanna see our they wanna see the the seawall continue so that it can be an uninterrupted walk, you know, from the bridge and the whale along our our our whole waterfront.
Speaker 1:It'll beautify it a little bit too. Let's be real.
Speaker 2:One of the things about safety I'd like to mention because it really benefits our our fishing community as well as our pleasure craft community. But if you take a ship off an anchor off off anchor, it swings, it's out there in the middle, and you put it alongside, you're getting it out of the central space to allow our other users better access to that commute to that water activity. And so that's another another thing. And if you look at our fishing let me take a step back. Gotta do this.
Speaker 2:If you looked at the at the charts that the Marine Exchange did, and this was just a tap a traffic pattern chart, at the open house, you saw great lines on our, a plat over our our map, stumbling here. But at any rate, the, what you saw or what stood out is that we have a huge amount of traffic in our waterfront, on our land or on our harbor. There we go. And if you take the ship out, if you take all the tenders out, not only reducing emissions, but you are also, freeing up, that space for other, marine uses.
Speaker 3:It was one of the most popular, one of the most popular boards at the open house. And again, we had diagrams about the process. We had diagrams, you know, conceptual drawings of the site, and there they answer questions. But we have, tremendous expertise in p and d engineers and marine exchange of Alaska. They're currently they they're work they're currently working on the navigability study.
Speaker 3:That's another requirement from the planning commission. And that will you know, the basic the essence of that study is to make sure that this dock is compatible with not only other docks in the area, but vessel traffic and float plane traffic. And so that diagram that Don was just talking about was this, you know, for people who are old enough to remember it, I called it a spirograph. It was just this, you know, all the the tracking on on the lighter ring vessels, it was just this big, you know, big brats nest there, but that traffic is crossing, you know, at an at a 90 degree angle, the float plane traffic. So, again, we've got a lot going on in our harbor.
Speaker 3:And if we get those 60 ships this summer and 87 ships next summer, if we can get them to a dock, it's it not only has harbor, you know, harbor benefits, but passengers, they're just like us. I passengers, I mean, they make it work. You know, our cruise lines and our visitor industry make this work, but when you're at anchor, you have to, you know, you have to take the little lightering vessels to shore. And one of the things people think about is they don't wanna stand in line when they go back to the ship. They don't wanna miss the ship.
Speaker 3:And so as a result, you know, people end up having just, you know, shortening their day. We have a really high participation in tours here in Juneau. We've got great tour product, but people want to avoid the line and they are, you know, we know this not only from a lot of research that's happened from what was McDowell, now McKinley Research, but Hoona Totem in Icy Strait Point opened you know, they just we just celebrated our twentieth anniversary, but they opened without the docks. And they see in their sales and in their visitor satisfaction ratings a difference when people can just relax, take their time, and not rush when they're at dock.
Speaker 1:Susan, I love a good visual. This is a podcast, though. Where can we go to see this cool chart that you and Don are talking about?
Speaker 3:Thanks so much for asking that. We have a website that is, auklanding.com, but I this is, the spelling of Auk is a little bit different than people might look at Auk Wreck or Auk Lake. It's a A K W. There's a hyphen. So ocoroc-landing.com.
Speaker 3:There's also information on the city website, but this will take you right there so people can look at the conceptual designs that Jensen Yorba Wall has developed. And then in the growing body of work, again, the navigability study is underway. We expect it to be completed by March 0. And, again, tremendous local expertise with P and D and Marine Exchange.
Speaker 1:You're hearing from Susan Vell. She is vice president of Hoonah Totem and lead on Auk Landing, and we have Don Habiger here. He is also your executive director of First Things First Alaska Foundation. This is the First Things First Alaska podcast where you be informed, get involved, and make a difference. And I've been thinking about this.
Speaker 1:This is a beautiful space that's going to be created. So this is obviously going to create a new public park and event space that can be used as well for tourists, locals, events that we love, like the Brew Fest, maybe some concerts.
Speaker 3:Well, one of the things that we we've been approached, by marine, by the Maritime Festival, by Ock Rock, but also the long standing, Brewfest.
Speaker 1:They
Speaker 3:had been talking with Hoonitotum Ford several years about, you know, having that having the event on this site. So, again, I think that as people start to think about the, you know, again, the public park that will be there, the parking, the seawall, and just how it connects into other things. I think there's gonna be so many creative ideas that come from this community as well as indoor event space too. What a wonderful place for a legislative reception, a wedding, you know, a banquet. So, again, it's you know, I think people last week as they started to think about the uses, look at the site, some some creative ideas came up, and we we're looking forward to seeing the compilation of comments from from the open house.
Speaker 1:Let's put on our city official hat here. I guess someone looking at it from this saying, well, what's in it for me? What am I gonna get from taxes? How is this gonna lower things around there? I imagine this has to have a significant private investment to it.
Speaker 1:This has to be generating something going into the city and to the people of the city.
Speaker 3:Well, that's it it absolutely will. But there's one thing that I've I've realized that, many people have asked if Hoona Totem will pay taxes. And the answer is absolutely yes. Hoona TOTEM is a for profit native corporation. Many people may not realize that, you know, Hoona TOTEM's corporate offices are right here in Juneau, and half of the shareholders live in Juneau.
Speaker 3:So this investment, first of all, you know, it it aligns with Hoona TOTEM's mission, but absolutely, yes, the corporation's paying property tax on the parcel now. And as we look at what will be North of A Hundred And 50000000 Dollars because that's the construction estimates were a hundred and 50 million in 2022. Our team is updating them now. So, you know, we we expect an escalation in prices, and those estimates didn't include the indigenous knowledge, science, and cultural center. So my round number in my mind is probably a hundred and 75, hundred and 80 million, but we're working on on updating that.
Speaker 3:That will be, first of all, you know, ships ships will pay to dock, you know, including many ships that are anchored or not paying. There will be significant property tax. I've been looking at this, city budget, and I would fully expect we'd be in the top four or five taxpayers in this community for property tax. And all of the activity that happens there will be subject to sales tax. So, again, a huge economic driver in this community.
Speaker 1:And when we're looking at sales tax, I'm imagining, like, gift shops and concessions and things like that?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Yeah. So there'll be, taxes that are you know, there'll be leased space that are that's in there, and there'll also be space that Hoona Totem is operating, the welcome center, and again, the, the cultural center. You know, there'll there'll be some things that we're involved in, but there'll be lease space. Tracy said it in the Juno Empire article.
Speaker 3:She really hopes that she can have a year round Tracy's Crab Shack there. You know, she has her seasonal operations, but she'd like she'd like to be part of it. Others have approached Tuna Totem. We've not had any leasing negotiations right now. What we're trying to do is get you know, go from conceptual design, update our, you know, update our financial pro form a, and, we'll need to have those conversations soon.
Speaker 3:But, again, the city's business expectation is that this will be year round and available, and we'll have to talk with our vendors about how they fit in that.
Speaker 1:It's just an example, though, of the growth and what could actually, like, happen with this with local businesses.
Speaker 2:Another thing we really have to keep in mind are the jobs, jobs, jobs that are created. And so very important, piece of our economy. And you have, according to the information I have in front of me, 80 plus construction jobs, to put the project together. Very, very high paying jobs. 90 plus summertime jobs and 20 plus year round jobs.
Speaker 2:And let me talk a little bit about opportunity. If you go back in time, when I first came to this community, because I hadn't decided quite what I wanted to do, when I grew up, I was a teacher. And I had a young student, and that student, ultimately, I had her in a science class. I better put that point in. And that young student named Stacy, ultimately, invented something, got a patent on it.
Speaker 2:She became the creator of Glacier Smoothie Soaps, and that family has been selling their soap product down on the waterfront, for generations now. Now let's go back a little bit further in time. When I first started in in tourism, Sandro Lane was selling, fish out of his, long run garage. Well, guess what? Taku Smokeries is now a byproduct of Sandro's Lane garage work.
Speaker 2:So opportunity. Give our people opportunity. Let them expand, their horizons through something like Auk Landing.
Speaker 1:And it sounds like Auk Landing is going to have a lot of these opportunities coming. So you have to be so excited about this.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And and the numbers that that Don was just mentioning, McKinley Research, again, this is a little bit dated. We'll have to update this, but the construction those impacts were, you know, based on the construction estimates that were done in 2022. So, I say all that just to say that those are conservative estimates of the jobs created. And, you know, again, we just have this local brain trust that has been part of the project, and and it's real really great to see Juneau and other Alaska contractors help this come together.
Speaker 1:Well and the military too, you know, with that, with the coast guard and the icebreaker coming in. Those are jobs. Those are people, you know, serving our military.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. And, as we very quickly alluded to, there is one side of the dock that is going to be cruise related. And then there's the other side of the dock that could be used for something else. Perhaps it could be a icebreaker, and could it could be storage. Perhaps it could be a wintertime, docking for some other, vessel, maybe another coast guard vessel, maybe, you know, a research vessel.
Speaker 2:We've seen those come into Juneau in the past. Why not, increase our wintertime activity? We're always looking for opportunities to increase that activity.
Speaker 1:Well, and it offers the year round educational opportunities too in the cultural center. Does it see it almost seems like the opportunities are endless here.
Speaker 3:Well, and and one of the things that Sealaska Heritage brings, to this is, they have so many educational programs, you know, whether they're k 12 or they're with the University of Alaska. And so to have a facility where there's the exhibit space, some classroom and event space, and a tie into those programs will also add to year round use, of of the site. See Alaska Heritage also is behind, you know, is is you visualize walking on the waterfront. You see those totem poles that, you know, stretch from the from one of the of Seawalk to the other Huna Huna Totem, committed to two of those poles. The one constructed by Wayne Price, is already completed.
Speaker 3:The second one that will be installed on the site, is underway, but it will have a strong footprint, not just the totem poles, but people will see this as a distinctive a distinctive, development that showcases Tlingit culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Just the drawings alone, everything looked absolutely beautiful and distinctive. That's a good way of putting it. So Don, as we sit here and we start to wrap things up, let's talk about some benefits also with the first things first that they also see coming from Auk landing.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we've covered quite a bit of it. But to summarize, it is an improved environment, less, atmosphere, emissions out in the atmosphere, very important to our citizens. That has been a long, discussion in this community. If you go back and talk about opacity, you know, residents just don't like it. Going to electrification at another dock really improves that, footprint in our community.
Speaker 2:So that's one. Jobs are another. Need to look at those jobs. Economic viability, economic, activity, both through the construction and then the operations. And a long term benefit, really, to our young people, giving them additional opportunities.
Speaker 2:You know, maybe maybe a young person in school right now wants to be, involved in cultural education. Why not be a part of that at Oc Landing?
Speaker 1:Susan, I wanna thank you so much for coming in here. Vice president of Hoona Totem and lead on Oc Landing. You have so much coming up and it seems like it's going to be in the coming years. What does the timeline look like from here?
Speaker 3:Well, we again, the a real key point while we're working with our project team to, you know, take the conceptual conceptual designs into a next level of engineering and architectural drawing, we're working concurrently with the city on that Tideland lease. Our goal is to have that and initiate construction in 2025 so the dock can be open in 2027.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be a big year, 2027. A lot to look forward to, and it's gonna come sooner than you think at this point. Susan, again, where can they go for all these visuals? Where they can where can they go for more information? And if they have any questions?
Speaker 3:Well, certainly, aaklanding.com is is a website that has been refreshed with some of the information we've talked about. And again, Aakw Landing is spelled traditionally a akw-landing, aak - landing Com. And we'll keep adding information to that.
Speaker 1:And, Dom, we're starting to hear more things about the First Things First podcast out there. So if people wanna get involved with First Things First and they agree with some of the stuff we're talking about on these podcasts, how can they get more information?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Our website is ftfakfoundation.org, and you can always send us an email. Just put an info in the front of f t f a k, foundation.org, and you can communicate with us anytime.
Speaker 1:And it's that easy to be informed, get involved, and make a difference. It's the First Things First podcast, the fourth episode. We got a fifth episode coming up, and this one's gonna be really topical too. Don, do we wanna give a little bit about it?
Speaker 2:Well, very quickly, we're just gonna talk about, Juno access. But not only Juno access, but Southeast Alaska transportation. Just take a look at, how we can improve, getting from one community to the next.
Speaker 1:That's what you have to look forward to in the next First Things First podcast. Again, Susan Bell, vice president of Huda Totem. Thank you so much for coming in here today and lead on Auk Landing. And, of course, Don Havinger. He is your executive director of First Things First Alaska Foundation.
Speaker 1:And I am Dano. This is the First Things First podcast.