Speaking Municipally

This week, we learned that city council is sunsetting seven boards that offered expert insight on women's issues, racism, climate, and more. Plus, KDays might have to downsize, and the Africa Centre is one step closer to its multicultural community hub.

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (01:29) - Ad: Edmonton Opera
  • (03:51) - Sunsetting Advisory Committees
  • (29:14) - Exhibition Lands
  • (36:31) - African Multicultural Community Centre
  • (40:33) - Permanent daylight time
  • (43:06) - Close

Here are the relevant links for this episode:

Sunsetting Advisory Committees
Exhibition Lands
African Multicultural Community Centre
Permanent daylight time
This episode is brought to you by Edmonton Opera. Siegfried is an epic coming-of-age story, where a young hero sets out to discover the world and who he is meant to become. Edmonton Opera brings this monumental story to the intimate Maclab Theatre at the Citadel, where you'll feel the full force of Wagner's music and the human story at its centre. See it on May 25, 27, 29, or 31. Learn more

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Creators and Guests

Host
Mack Male
Co-Founder and CEO of Taproot Publishing Inc.
Host
Stephanie Swensrude
Stephanie is a curator and reporter at Taproot Edmonton. She attended NAIT's radio and television program and has worked at CBC, CFJC in Kamloops, and 630 CHED.
Guest
Joel Ivany
Guest
Karen Unland
Co-founder of @taprootyeg with @mastermaq. Creator of @albertapodnet. Co-host of @thatsathingyeg. Fan of crazy ideas that just might work. She/her

What is Speaking Municipally?

Taproot Edmonton presents a weekly discussion on key stories in municipal politics. We pay attention to City Council so you don't have to! Join us as we delve into conversations about the context surrounding decisions made at City Hall.

Mack:
Your KDays are numbered. This week, council announced they're sunsetting seven boards that offered expert insight on women's issues, racism, and climate.

Stephanie:
Plus, KDays might have to downsize, and the Africa Center is one step closer to its multicultural community center.

Mack:
Hi. I'm Mack.

Stephanie:
I'm Stephanie.

Mack:
And we're…

Both:
Speaking Municipally.

Mack:
Welcome back to Speaking Municipally, Episode 353. We are recording this as usual on Thursday, April 23rd, which means we're two playoff games into the books, one coming up tomorrow night. Stephanie, how are you doing? Are you still on the bandwagon?

Stephanie:
Yes, of course. Well, I mean, I did stop watching the game last night early. I did the thing where someone scores, and lightning fast, just pick up the remote and turn off the, turn off the TV. Yeah, it just Whatever. It's only game two of the entire run.

Mack:
Exactly.

Stephanie:
We got lots of time.

Mack:
Exactly.

Stephanie:
Still have a lot of hockey left.

Mack:
And the Oilers are very good at playing from behind and coming back, right? This they've done this a lot in games, in series. I'm not, I'm not worried yet. All right, we have a lot of news to get to in this episode. You've been out doing some real reporting as they say.

Stephanie:
.

Mack:
I mean, you do this all the time.

Stephanie:
Yes.

Mack:
But you've brought us clips and stuff as well, which should be interesting. But before we get into all of that, we have an ad for you.

Stephanie:
This episode is brought to you by Edmonton Opera. Taproot co-founder Karen Unland, recently spoke with Artistic Director, Joel Ivany, about the final show in Edmonton Opera's current season. Here's Karen talking with Joel Ivany about Siegfried.

Karen:
I'm here with Joel Ivany from Edmonton Opera. They've unveiled their 2026/2027 season, and on previous segments, you can hear all about that. But as we speak, there's still one more 2025/2026 season opera to come, which is Siegfried. So tell me all about that one.

Joel:
So this Yeah, Siegfried is a incredible opera written by Wagner. Traditionally, these are massive forces to put on these operas of his. It's part of something called the Ring Cycle, where he wrote four operas. We've done the two previous ones, and this one's the third installment. So it's kind of like The Lord of the Rings in terms of you're dealing with gods and humans and the mortals. And, Die Walküre ended last season. And in it we saw Siegmund and Sieglinde, and they had a baby. We now see that baby all grown up, who is Siegmund. And so some of the music that you heard in Valkyrie kind of is now re-threaded into Siegfried. And so you We also left with Brünnhilde asleep on top of mountain, with a ring of fire around her. So it's a bit of a cliffhanger, and this opera kind of carries on the story. We do it in the intimate for us in terms of opera, Maclab Theatre at the Citadel Theatre. And it's a unique experience to hear opera in that space, in the round, done in a very different way. So if you're curious about, the grandness of opera, but in a much more intimate experience, be sure to check it out, because it's sung in German and carries all the heavy epicness of what opera can be, but in a very accessible, intimate way.

Karen:
And when is that going on?

Joel:
It opens on May 25th, and there are four performances of that. So whenever suits your schedule, we'd love to see you there. And, yeah, that will just kind of lead into the 26, 27 seasons. So we hope to see you at the opera.

Karen:
Excellent. Thank you.

Stephanie:
Siegfried is playing at the Maclab Theatre at the Citadel on May 25, 27, 29, and 31. Get your tickets today at edmontonopera.com.

Mack:
All right. Our first item this week is a fairly big change. City Council has decided to sunset some advisory committees. Tell us what this is all about.

Stephanie:
Yeah. So basically, last month, City Council met in private and decided to sunset, that is the official term that they use, the Anti-Racism Advisory Committee, Edmonton Historical Board, Edmonton Salutes Committee, Edmonton Transit Service Advisory Board, Energy Transition Climate Resilience Committee, Women's Advisory Voice of Edmonton Committee, and the City of Edmonton Youth Council. Okay. So just gonna go through. That's anti-racism history, the salutes committee is about military and veterans, transit, climate, women, and youth. It's like a checklist for marginalized identities.

Mack:
And some of those committees are more well known than others. For example, the Edmonton Transit Service Advisory Board, ATSAB, and the Youth Council, they've been around for a long time. And have been very active at different times during their existence. Some of the others are a little newer, but all of these are significant. So is this official? Is this a done deal?

Stephanie:
So it's The only thing that still needs to happen is on April 28th, Council will vote on bylaws that will officially conclude the boards, and if passed, so the first six that I mentioned will conclude on April 30th, and then the last one, which is the City of Edmonton Youth Council, will conclude on August 31st.

Mack:
Was there any discussion about this? Did these folks know that their boards were about to be disbanded?

Stephanie:
So I know that one board found out sometime last week, and I know that another board found out, I believe, on Tuesday night. So it's been like a pretty recent thing that these boards have found out that they're being, concluded, disbanded, sunsetted, whatever you wanna call it. And, so the reason why these meetings were put in private was, administration says, was so that administration could reach out to these groups and let them know, and that's what those meetings were for, is that over the last few weeks, they've been told that their work with these boards will be concluded.

Mack:
There's a lot of different committees that the city has. Some of them, in the past, I've understood it that there are some that are committees of council, some that are committees of administration, some that are a bit of a hybrid. You know, as I mentioned, they kind of have varying levels of responsibility and impact. But of these committees, you said these seven are going away, there's five that remain. What are the five that they're keeping?

Stephanie:
So the five remaining are the Edmonton Design Committee, Accessibility Advisory Committee, Edmonton Combative Sports Commission, Community Services Advisory Board, and the Naming Committee. And council will also meet in private on April 28th to receive governance updates from those committees.

Mack:
Okay. So some sticking around, and again, some heavy hitters in there, Design Committee, Naming Committee…

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
You know. What's the rationale for this? Is this about cost savings? Is this are there gonna replace this with something different? Do we have new insight community ways to gather this input? Like, why is council deciding to make this change?

Stephanie:
So I did go to, like, a press conference today, with the mayor, and he said that it was not a budget decision. Everyone was kind of thinking, "Oh, this must be a budget decision." Apparently, it's not. Apparently, this is so that the city can hear from more people. So getting rid of the boards is a way to hear from more people. What do you think about that, Mack?

Mack:
You well, you seem skeptical about that being true.

Stephanie:
I mean, yeah, I think that it just isn't It just seems like a little bit of, not hypocrisy, but I just, like, I just don't understand what they mean by taking away this direct conduit between, like, the community and council, like, this very formal relationship, and instead turning it into a more case-by-case disparate relationship. Because we hear all the time, like, I think we talked about this last week, of, unifying, having a collaborative approach across sectors. Like, everyone's trying to Everyone is trying to get to a point where it's, like, one group of people speaking straight to the city council, and now we're going to We're, doing the opposite of that.

Mack:
So I can understand what they mean by hear from more people because I think in practice what happens a lot of times is that it becomes a box-ticking exercise. It's like, "Did we hear from women on this?" "Well, yes. We talked to WAVE." Do all of those folks speak on behalf of all women in the City of Edmonton? No, they don't. Same with ATSAB. Do they represent all transit riders? I mean, that's their, that's their mandate and their desired goal, but it's not practical. They don't. And this happens a lot in community leagues, right? You end up with two or three people that are basically the community league board. They're the ones who talk to planners and other folks at the City of Edmonton, and it's like if we've engaged those two or three people that we go for drinks with all the time, we've, in effect, engaged the community. And it's like, "No, you haven't. You haven't, actually," right? So I think that's probably what is meant by instead of consulting the same small group of people over and over again, we can reach more people by removing that box-ticking exercise. And you could argue that it's not are the either/or. Maybe we can have both, and, you know, the whole wisdom of the crowds idea is that the crowd has to include some experts in order for that to all work. But I can understand that, you know, if they view it as a hindrance by having those committees to hearing from other people about those issues, then maybe removing those committees is one way to address that.

Stephanie:
Yeah. Well, you were saying that a lot of these committees have been around for years and years and years, and like I said, I spoke to the mayor earlier, and he said that he wonders if this committee structure that they have set up now is actually the best way to hear from a diverse group of Edmontonians.

Andrew Knack:
Don't know if there was ever going to be a way that, it would that everyone would be excited about a change like that, of course, right? But again, this is the importance of I think a lot of these voices are going to want to continue to be a part of shaping the city, providing policy recommendations, providing guidance on these pieces, and this is about how do you design a different system. Because, again, in my 12 years on a as a councillor, what we saw is that we just continued to add to that structure instead of ever asking the question, "Is the structure the right system to allow all of those voices to be heard, to allow them to provide meaningful change in the work that we're doing?" 'Cause that at the end of the day is what we need. We need those voices who have so much knowledge and so much to offer to be able to help shape the city in the most meaningful way possible, and I think that's been the question we've been asking ourselves is that are those systems the best systems,…

Mack:
I think it's interesting that he talks about, sort of the impact that these committees might have and if it's the best way for their expertise to be brought forward. You've reported on this in the past. Not all of these committees have teeth.

Stephanie:
Yeah. I mean, I have spoken to people on some of the committees that are being sunsetted that get that they kinda go, "What's the point of me being here if you're not gonna listen to me?" I don't really wanna name names, but then at the same time, what's gonna happen? Are they gonna get kicked off the committee? It's about to end. But, you know, let's just yeah. The thing is that, like, yeah, these committees don't really have teeth. They don't have authority. Their job is to research issues and bring forward, perspectives, but they don't actually have any authority. Some of them do have some more responsibility, at least on paper. Like, for example, the Edmonton Design Committee makes recommendations to developers that are building in certain areas of the city basically to ensure that buildings in prominent areas are not super ugly, but in my reporting on the EDC, I've learned that there's actually no teeth to their recommendations. Like, they're The developers don't actually really have to follow it. The Naming Committee, as the name suggests, they give the green light to names of civic-owned buildings and civic-owned streets and parks and neighborhoods and all that stuff. However, when I did a story on the renaming of the field in Commonwealth Stadium to play Alberta Field, that story revealed that the naming committee doesn't actually have jurisdiction when it comes to naming rights, so something like the Booster Juice Recreation Center in Terwillegar. So, you know, these committees Though, the naming committee does have generally, like, jurisdiction or, authority to name, to name some assets, but not-… all of them, right?

Mack:
I mean, the buck always stops with city council, right? Pretty much is how our system works. I've sat on a number of, city committees over the years, the Food Council and other things, and you know, in my experience, the effectiveness of each committee really came down to the connection between the people on the committee and City Council. And that connection is almost always managed by somebody who works at the City of Edmonton. And depending on the staff people that are involved, you're gonna have varying degrees of success. That's been my experience. I think that contributes to that feeling that you've talked about. I've heard this from people who's been on, you know, CSAB, the Community Services Advisory Board, or, you know, some of the other ones you mentioned as well, which is like, "Why are we even here?" Like, "What is the point of this?" That feeling of accomplishment, that sense that your input, the research that you did, the discussions that you had, the topic that you worked through, the sense that actually moved the needle on something is really highly dependent on how that work is brought from your committee to City Council to inform and influence the decisions that, at the end of the day, City Council makes. Some of these committees have been more successful at that than others, I would say.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
So we've talked a bit about what's happening here. We've heard from the mayor. Have we heard from the groups themselves? Have you talked to anyone who's on these committees who is now about to be sunset?

Stephanie:
Yes, so, I got a statement from WAVE, that's the Women's Advisory Voice of Edmonton, saying, "We are deeply disappointed by council's decision to sunset WAVE." and they said that, "WAVE began in 2013 with full support from City Council, bringing lived experiences forward to improve outcomes for women and gender-diverse people in Edmonton. To dissolve this work and legacy while systemic inequities persist is difficult to reconcile. Within this context, the decision to sunset WAVE and other advisory committees is both shortsighted and ill-timed. Too often, women and gender-diverse people are silenced or sidelined in shaping policy. WAVE challenged that reality, and its removal reinforces these inequities and eliminates a safe arm's-length space for equity-seeking communities to engage with council." And, what's next for some of the folks from WAVE is they said, "Many of us are moving forward together as the People's Advocacy Voice of the Miskwaciwaskahikan, effective immediately, as an independent advocacy collective."

Mack:
WAVE stands for Women's Advisory Voice of Edmonton, as you said. So advisory, I think, is kinda key there. That's what council calls these committees, is advisory committees. But I think the reality is that they often attract people who don't just want to do advisory work, they want to do advocacy work. So perhaps not surprising to me to hear that some of those folks have decided to go and start their own organization, and probably that's gonna be a more effective use of their time. Advocacy organizations like that can have quite a bit of success in moving the needle on things. I'm thinking of ones that we talk about on this show all the time, PATHS for People, for example. You know, they're about their issue, and they are really actively advocating for change related to that. They're not sort of passively in the background making recommendations that people might not even hear about, let alone, you know, that will actually result in a change, in some sort of a policy or a decision. So I don't know that's the worst thing, actually, that outcome.

Stephanie:
Yeah, I totally see what you're saying, and it makes me think of one of the boards that's being concluded is the Edmonton Transit Service Advisory Board. So why does the Edmonton Transit Riders outside advocacy group also exist? You know, it's kind of the same thing, and ETR…

Mack:
Right.

Stephanie:
Has been doing lots of stuff, right? But I just wanted to I think that this, dovetails really nicely into something I heard from Melanie Hoffman, who is the former co-chair of the Energy Transition Climate Resilience Committee, which I'm going to refer to as the Climate Board from now on, because I always mess up that name, and I wanna say Edmonton Transit ƒ So anyways, Melanie Hoffman, former co-chair of the Climate Advisory Board. Well, at first she said that, you know, she was confused, disrespected, she was in shock and fear, and she's worried about the upcoming budget without having this direct line. You know, the Climate Board was supposed to be the voice for climate change advocacy that kind of, like, connects, All of Edmonton can kind of funnel through into City Council.

Melanie Hoffman:
This just makes me think of Andre Corbould saying "Until I get a million people calling 311 and asking for climate action, I'm not gonna present you with a budget." So I feel like the mayor is literally just saying, "Okay, you 15 experts that have been volunteering your time on this committee, we would prefer that you go and mobilize a million Edmontonians on climate, because we're not gonna do it. We're not gonna show that leadership. We're not going to bring forward the knowledge and information that we have."

Mack:
You can really hear her frustration coming through there.

Stephanie:
Yes, she was very upset. Melanie, if you're listening, thank you for She was taking time out of her day, driving her kiddos, home from school, and she did not mince words. Yes, she was very frustrated with this decision.

Mack:
I think I heard you chuckle there too at the Corbold suggestion with the million people. And, you know, I think that's a good point to pick up on, because we criticized that comment quite significantly here on the show when Andre Corbold made it. But not because there was a group of 15 experts that talk about climate. It was because city plan and all of the climate work that underpins our climate strategies were the most engaged-on thing the City of Edmonton has ever done. Like, thousands and thousands of Edmontonians did provide their input into that. So, it's a bit challenging to hear the loss of this committee equated with, "They don't care about it." I don't, I don't think that is the case. I don't think that anyone should view the, dismantling of any of these advisory committees as council doesn't care about this thing. I see that is the reaction online that people are jumping to, and it's understandable that someone like Melanie who's involved is gonna feel that sense of frustration first and foremost. But I don't believe that Mayor Andrew Knack, for example, thinks we shouldn't be doing things about the climate. You know?

Stephanie:
No, I totally agree, and I think about certainly other people on council. Like, I'I've met and chatted with them. I've watched them for five, some of them for five years now on council, and it would be shocking to me Like, on its surface, this decision is shocking to me that they would vote to not hear from women, people of color, transit riders, people interested in climate change, et cetera. So, I mean, I guess moving forward, they'll just have to really show that it… 'Cause it just looks so bad. I literally said that to the mayor. I said, "This looks bad. And how are you gonna defend this?" And he just said, "We're going to keep talking to these people, keep hearing from them."

Mack:
Yeah, I mean, it's not voting to not hear from women.

Stephanie:
Exactly.

Mack:
It's not…

Stephanie:
Of course. Of course.

Mack:
Voting to not hear from transit riders. It's just this specific way of doing it with a body that has 15 people, that has a terms of reference, you know.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
There's a lot of waste that is involved in these committees. So they're saying it's not about cost, but there's a real cost to these things. And two things come to mind right away. Number one is, every time one of these committees is started, the first couple of years are wasted. That's my word, wasted, on governance. They gotta figure out the terms of reference. What are we about? How are we gonna What are, what are our terms gonna look like? Like, we've had so many of these committees, you'd think we could just, "Here it is. You're good to go. You don't need to spend any time on that stuff." But in practice, that's not the case. So there's quite a lot of wasted effort involved in that. And then the other bit of waste, and I know they said it's not about cost, but there is staff time involved in all of this. And what I was saying earlier about how effective the staff people are at bringing things forward or not, like, there's a staff person, at least one, assigned to each of these committees, and there is work involved in setting up the meetings and coordinating and communication and all the things that happen. So I think it's okay to say we're gonna hear from women and we're gonna hear from youth and we're gonna hear from people who care about the climate and we're gonna hear from people who ride transit in a different way. Did Melanie have anything else she wanted to share?

Stephanie:
Well, I think that to really touch on your point about, like, why is it necessary to have like this 15-member board providing their expertise, she mentioned that sometimes, like, administration doesn't necessarily bring forward climate as a priority, and that is where the board really comes in.

Melanie Hoffman:
The people of Edmonton should be able to rely on council to do that and to know that there is an expert advisory committee that is bringing that information forward to council, and you don't have to be doing that all the time. I know the mayor is well aware of all the things that people are dealing with in 2026. I don't see how this is helpful.

Stephanie:
So she's basically saying people in their everyday life shouldn't have to be worrying about advocating and sharing their voice. There should be this board to be that voice for climate change advocacy.

Mack:
Yeah, I hear that. And again, I guess maybe I'm just going back to the difference between advisory and advocacy.

Stephanie:
Right.

Mack:
And that perhaps what she wants and what would be more effective is to have an advocacy organization that isn't just supposed to provide advice and recommendations to council, but can actually be proactive about trying to make sure those things are on the agenda. You know, I think this has always been a bit of a gray area with these committees. Like, who's supposed to make sure that there's a discussion about climate in the context of the budget? Is it that committee? Are they really only supposed to provide input on things that council's asked them to provide recommendations on? They produce an annual report. Is that how it works? Like, it's always been a bit unclear. Maybe actually getting rid of these committees, or at least some of them, will help clear the deck a little bit for some of that more effective advocacy to happen.

Stephanie:
Yeah, and like, speaking of the budget, that was one thing that she brought up that if people are giving their input on the budget, which the, I think the online survey is still open until May 1st, if you care about climate, you need to make climate a priority because the climate board is not gonna be there anymore. If you care about transit, you need to put transit in as a priority because this specific advisory board is not gonna be there anymore. Women's, anti-racism although the anti-racism one was paused in 2023, but still all of these things, you're gonna have to do your own advocacy to, make sure that it's included or at least make sure that you give your voice to show that's included in the budget.

Mack:
So these changes feel like they've happened relatively quickly. We had these initial meetings a month ago. By the end of April, it sounds like council will have voted to move ahead with this change, but you saw that actually it's been going on for quite some time, right?

Stephanie:
Yeah, I mean, I think that some of these changes have been You've been able to spot them on the horizon coming towards you. A couple years ago, in 2023, the Office of the City Auditor did an audit of these, agencies, boards, and commissions. The audit found that roles and responsibilities were not well defined. Some of these, civic agencies were created with overly broad mandates. Council has not regularly reviewed agency mandates for current relevance and annual reports were inconsistent and didn't include enough information. Agency members were not receiving consistent training. Just a lot of issues. Some of them were, dealt with, some of them were closed. Yeah, I guess if, like, these boards and stuff have been around for 20 years, it maybe was just a matter of time before we need an overhaul of the whole system.

Mack:
And I see that council actually approved a new governance framework recently that brings in some review, right? For these remaining ones, I suppose.

Stephanie:
Right, so this is I believe that's why this, big change is happening. So all of this comes from a report that went to council back in mid-March called City Council's Governance Frameworks For Council Committees. I cannot think of a more dull title. That's why I didn't pay any attention to it at first. But basically, they approved a new framework for dealing with these agencies, boards, and commissions or committees. And the framework, kind of introduces a mechanism for at the beginning of every council term. They're reviewed to make sure that they're still relevant, that they have a specific purpose, that their work is not being done elsewhere, that it fills a gap that is not being filled elsewhere. So, I believe that is why these boards got kiboshed.

Mack:
This is why it's happening now.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
Okay. Well, what is next for these committees?

Stephanie:
So Mayor Knack said that administration is going to be working with the affected parties to, you know, see what's next and it's gonna be on a case-by-case basis.

Andrew Knack:
Gonna be case-by-case because each committee is gonna have their own approach to this here and each voice is going to have a different perspective, right? And everything can look different depending on a variety of factors. So I'd leave it up to them to help shape what that looks like and we've committed to continuing to engage with them, as we go forward on this.

Stephanie:
Mm-hmm. And he talks about, like, how on the Youth Council, Coun. Reed Clarke said that he has committed to staying in touch with all of them and other councillors sitting on the other committees have agreed to stay in touch with them.

Mack:
All right, I understand why this can be a surprising change for folks. I mean, some of these committees have been around, I think you said in your story actually, that the Youth Council is almost as old as Andrew Knack himself. Like, it's been around for a long time. And so anytime you've got, you know, these committees that have been around for that length of time, they've had that kind of a history, it's quite shocking when we decide that we're gonna do things in a different way. But as you can probably tell from my comments throughout this conversation, I don't think the takeaway here should be Council doesn't care about these things. And I'm optimistic that, this can result in actually a more effective impact on the decisions that City Council makes. Troy, Pavlick, our podcast co-founder has talked about engagement lots of times over the years. He's always had a bit of an extreme view, I think, on public engagement, you know, to the point that he doesn't think anyone should be allowed to go and speak at Council because it's kind of like this in a microcosm, right? It's like they only hear it from the people in the room rather than the silent majority who doesn't have time to go to City Hall. So I kind of understand that, but maybe a bit extreme. But I saw that, I saw that he did post something on Reddit about this news.

Stephanie:
Yeah, he said, "I'm fine with this decision." He said, "It is, in my opinion, worse to convene a group of marginalized people, hear their perspectives and guidance, and ignore it than it is to simply not convene the group at all. From my view, this was the effect of these boards with the bonus of also taking up a bunch of staff time at a cost."

Mack:
Yeah, I've heard him say something similar to that in the past, and I think that kind of makes sense. I think one of the rationales for these kinds of committees in the past is that it is a form of public engagement, right? And it is a way for people to contribute to their community and to get involved, and there are intangibles that are a result of these things. People make relationships and connections and, you know, all of the There are a lot of positive benefits that can come from these committees. But if there's another way for those things to happen that is perhaps more effective, I'm open to supporting that. And, at the end of the day, what all of these folks want is for Council to make better decisions about the things that they care about, and it's not clear to me that these committees are the only way to do that.

Stephanie:
Yeah. So moving forward, my only two little question marks that I have remaining are I would love to see So all of these decisions were made in private. I wanna know who voted, if it was unanimous, I wanna know all that. And also, they recruited for these boards starting in January.

Mack:
Right.

Stephanie:
They were taking applications for these boards. So sometime in the last two and a half, three months, they decided to do this, which is so strange to me. I don't understand why they would have done that if they Like, I don't know.

Mack:
Maybe it was a very concerning crop of applicants. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. There's probably lots of really great applicants, but…

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
Well, just one last thing that I'll say from Melanie is that she said that the Every year they got up to 60 applicants of people who want to volunteer their time to help with climate. And, you know, that's just It's just I don't know. It's a shame.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
I think.

Mack:
Well, thank you for your reporting on that, Stephanie, and we will look for those updates as you find out more about this in the, in the weeks ahead. Okay, second thing we wanted to talk about today is KDays. Well, not really KDays, but the exhibition lands, right? I understand Council received a report about this. What is the news about this week?

Stephanie:
Yeah, so, Urban Planning Committee meeting, Explore Edmonton was there to say, "If you reduce the amount of space we can use at the Expo Center, it's gonna make us really hard to hold and attract major events." So the reason why this came to Urban Planning Committee is that, it was a bit of an update on the exhibition lands redevelopment, which is, you know, they're taking all of those big empty, or they're empty for almost a whole year.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
Big empty swaths of land and they're gonna put housing and retail, and they're gonna make like a little, nice little walkable transit-oriented neighborhood there, eventually. It's in the very early stages. Obviously, as a result of that, Explore Edmonton is not gonna have as much space to run KDays and other, like Farm Fair, and other big events like that.

Mack:
And I understand that Explore Edmonton went out and asked a consultant to basically do a review of the situation, right?

Stephanie:
Yeah. So currently, the city leases 55 acres within the site to, Explore Edmonton, which once the redevelopment is-… completely done. It's gonna be about 16 hectares, but Explore Edmonton was saying, "We need more than that, please." so what they're gonna do in the to kind of compromise is once the Coliseum is knocked down, they're going to use that space there for part of K Days. And then part of what the discussion at Urban Planning Committee this week was like, "Okay, how exactly are we going to reorient all of the space around, the exhibition lands to make it, like, the best possible outcome for everyone involved?"

Mack:
That use of the Coliseum lands is really interesting, right? So, as we know, we're gonna be demolishing the Coliseum now finally because we got the province to give us money, basically in exchange for agreeing to build that event park downtown. But anyway, the Coliseum demolition though has long been planned as, that land would be used for this kind of purpose. The Edmonton Exhibition Lands Implementation Strategy, which was approved several years ago, talks about how that site is important and that due to its proximity to the Expo Centre, it is anticipated this site will be used for large outdoor events, event surface parking, and staging. Now, I don't know that was always the long-term plan for that site, but certainly in the short term, as soon as that Coliseum is demolished, it can be part of the redevelopment, perhaps reorientation of the Coliseum LRT station, and then that land can be used to support events on the expo lands. So, you know, what you described made sense to me, but then, of course, council decided to do something slightly different this week.

Stephanie:
Yeah, so there were four options for, like, scenarios of, you know, rearranging the land and Urban Planning Committee directed admin to further analyze a modified version of one of those scenarios. They chose scenario three, which would create an outdoor event space directly south of the Expo Centre, and their modifications include some additional storage and staging areas, as well as hard surfacing in the Borden Park expansion for community programming and one of the things that Coun. Ashley Salvador mentioned was, like, basketball courts and stuff like that. It also calls, the motion also calls for administration to retain the Coliseum LRT station in its current location instead of replacing it with two stations, kind of one on each end of the overall redevelopment because Ashley Salvador said that she thinks that the station should be retrofitted instead of moved, like Stadium Station was.

Mack:
And then the other change here then is that, in effect, that land where the Coliseum sits could be used for housing…

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
As a result of this.

Stephanie:
And I think that's to really keep that transit-oriented development, like, you know, right beside the train station, keep the transit-oriented development.

Mack:
Yeah, I saw the mayor talking about, you know, how it's important to still have this residential development here, but also important and, you know, this is like everything that council has to decide. There are legitimate, you know, concerns on either side or many sides of an issue, and in this case, it's about economic development, right? And the mayor was basically saying that K Days does bring quite a lot of activity to the city. We wanna be able to still have those events. Explore Edmonton has had some success in attracting, you know, new events and things like that to the Expo Centre, and having a place to still have that is important. We don't just wanna get rid of that, even though we need some housing. I don't know what the modified option will look like, but that original option that they had, talked about said that there would be about 505 fewer housing units developed. The original design called for 2,811. So, not an insignificant decrease in housing and we'll have to see how the final numbers look here, but I can understand the tension, right, between, well, we need housing, we wanna build this transit-oriented community, but we also see the benefit to the broader city of having things, you know, like K Days, because, you know, roller coasters and cotton candy and mini donuts…

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
They're part of life in Edmonton.

Stephanie:
They totally are. Like, I love K Days. I don't know if anyone knows me, is I freaking love roller coasters. I think that, you know, we talk about densification, how you need to build up, not out. I think they just start, need to start stacking roller coasters on top of each other.

Mack:
Yes.

Stephanie:
You know, really densifying. I think that'd be really cool. No. Obviously, it's a joke. I also wanted to talk a bit about the retrofitting of the train station. This has now come up a couple times at council where everyone's like, "That train station is disgusting and something needs to change." We've talked about it on the show before…

Mack:
Absolutely, yeah.

Stephanie:
About how terrible of an experience it is to have to go down and up the stairs, and I don't even understand why. Like, genuinely, it's to go under the tracks and then back up, right?

Mack:
I mean, the tracks, but why do we do anything in this city? It's for cars.

Stephanie:
Yeah, true.

Mack:
It's for cars.

Stephanie:
Ugh.

Mack:
It's gotta be a thoroughfare, you know?

Stephanie:
So, you know, that was an It was brought up again. Carrie Hotton-McDonald was there saying like, "Yeah, we need that station. We gotta go." And I remember last time we talked about this, we mentioned the fact that there's talks that they could just kind of seal off that bottom level and instead build a way to, you know, come out on the same level as that, like, bridge.

Mack:
Everyone loves what happened at Stadium. Councillors are all fans of that design, and yet somehow we seem stuck on this. I imagine it's gonna come down to cost, right?

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
There's gonna be significant cost involved in whatever happens with that LRT station, but I think the argument that we need to maintain this hybrid approach to the exhibition lands, the argument that it is important for economic development to continue to have this thing that allows the whole city to come together is an argument for doing something about that LRT station, right? I mean, improving that interface and the experience that people have seems like a no-brainer if we're gonna continue to have thousands, hundreds of thousands of people come to that site every summer for K Day. So, I really hope that we get to see some movement on the Coliseum LRT station plan in this upcoming four-year budget. Alright, we've got another item we wanted to touch on that was at council this week, and that is the African Multicultural Community Centre is a go.

Stephanie:
Yeah. So…

Mack:
Mostly.

Stephanie:
Yes. Well, I mean it's on its way to being a go. Africa Centre has been trying for a like talks about the centre have been in place for at least 10 years. There's been a lot of setbacks of having to find, again, the word governance, that very boring but very important word, governance. New governance strategies and trying to find out, like, who will this centre represent? Do we have, like, yeah, representation from all the people from the African and Caribbean diaspora? And then finally, at, executive committee this week, they approved to sell a portion of Athlone Park to the Africa Centre for $1, and then selling that land opens the door for the organization to apply for grants from the CMHC and other organizations, to build a two-story 45,000 square foot building. It's anticipated to cost $54.2 million, and it's expected to generate $300 million in economic activity annually. That's what the folks at the centre were saying.

Mack:
I think it's really exciting that this is gonna move forward. That particular piece of land, it's 131st Avenue, 127th Street. It is a former surplus school site. It used to be the Wellington Schools where my mom went to school, actually. My grandmother worked in that school. Just a little bit further south of that piece of land that they're planning to build this building is where there's this beautiful library, public library that has been built in recent years. A little bit further down the street, there's the bowling alley and the liquor store that people in that area will have known for a long time, and hopefully something can happen across the street to the north because it's an old, gas station that has been vacant for a really long time. So, I mean, for that community, there's been a lot of housing that's gone up in that area, there's some redevelopment happening in that neighborhood. I think it's exciting that this kind of a project will, hopefully be moving forward. I don't know about the $300 million in economic activity.

Stephanie:
Mm-hmm.

Mack:
Those numbers always feel a little bit, you know, made up to me or whatever, but I there's no question that this will have a real impact for the Africa Centre and the communities that it serves, and so I think it's great to see that moving ahead. And it's really low risk to the city and to city council, right? I see that if the construction doesn't happen on this building within five years, the city can just buy it back for the same dollar. So, that feels like a no-brainer kinda decision to me.

Stephanie:
Yeah, totally. Yeah, the construction is expected to begin in the summer, and the centre is scheduled to open in 2028, expecting if everything goes right.

Mack:
Alright, so I'm excited about this. You listened to council. Were they excited about this too when they made the approval?

Stephanie:
Yeah, so I wasn't I'm not always able to be in person at council when these things go on, but I listen to almost every meeting, and a big thing about council and committee meetings is that you're supposed to hold decorum. You're not allowed to clap. The only time they clap is when an elementary school classroom comes in and then they clap for those kids.

Mack:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
But other than that, you're not supposed to clap, cheer, boo, et cetera, et cetera, yell out, make jokes. But, you know, you could hear over the microphones on like the other side of the room, once they, the vote went through, and it was a unanimous five-nothing vote from the executive committee, they just burst into cheers and they were so happy and Andrew Knack, Mayor Knack was just kinda like, "Okay, everyone, d-" But when he was, putting end his When he was closing on the, on the vote, he was actually getting emotional saying like, 'cause I think that he's been around for most of the time that this project has been in the works and seeing it finally get to this point where they've sold the land to the Africa Centre, he was getting emotional, and then, it was just, it was just funny 'cause they were trying to start the next presentation. There was another presentation about, like, contractors or whatever, and, just you they're like, "Okay, we're gonna have to wait a few minutes for them to clear out," because there was like 50 people there. It was awesome. We love to see civic engagement.

Mack:
That's that show of support.

Stephanie:
Yep.

Mack:
Yep, absolutely. Okay, before we close the episode for this week, there was one other bit of news that we just have to talk about. Premier Danielle Smith says, "No more time changes!" We are gonna follow suit with BC and twice a year time changes will be a thing of the past. We are on daylight time now, and the idea is that would be permanent, so we'd have dark mornings in the winter, but the exchange is we get more sun in the evenings. So, this could happen if they bring forward legislation in the next few weeks here like they said they would. So, what do you think about this, Stephanie? Are you happy about this?

Stephanie:
Honestly, I feel like it's gonna be one of those things where in the after in winter in the afternoon I'll be like, "Heck yeah, this is awesome. Woo! Let's go!" And then in the morning I'll be like, "What is life?" Because, yeah, it is gonna suck to not have the sun out until like, what, like 9:30 or 10:00 during the darkest time, and then it'll be, it'll be awesome to have it later. Like, I don't know. Sure. Sure. Okay, I'm gonna ask a question that like This might be a stupid question, but has anyone considered just splitting the difference and next time we just change it by half an hour, and then we just keep it like that forever?

Mack:
Oh, that just sounds terrible. We don't wanna be Newfoundland.

Stephanie:
Is that is that why that happened? Is that…

Mack:
No, it's just geographically where they are, I think. They've got a different…

Stephanie:
Oh, their…

Mack:
A half hour time change, right?

Stephanie:
Okay, but what if we all decided Okay, I guess that's why it can't happen is because everyone would have to decide. Yeah, it would suck to be, to be Newfoundland.

Mack:
But what you're What you're getting at is that it's completely arbitrary, right? When we were talking about this around the dinner table the other day My daughter was saying, like, "" She's trying to understand this. Like, you just, you just decide what time it is? And it's like, "Yeah. Yeah, actually we do."

Stephanie:
She probably is having like an existential crisis right now 'cause she's what, like seven?

Mack:
Eight. Yeah.

Stephanie:
She's eight. Yeah, she's probably like, "Time is not real." No, it isn't. That's why I'm like okay, sure, whatever. Time is not real. Sure. I don't, it's not gonna I don't think it's gonna make a humongous I'm gonna, I'm still gonna be extremely depressed in December.

Mack:
I'm here for the time change, or rather the lack of time change. I will be happy…

Stephanie:
Yeah, that's the thing is that…

Mack:
To not have to change the clocks anymore.

Stephanie:
That is nice that I won't have to adjust anymore because I. For some reason, like, it used to never affect me when I was I mean, it probably affected me when I was, like, a little kid, teenage, young adulthood, totally fine. For whatever reason, like, three years ago, all of a sudden it took me, like, two weeks to get used to the time change. It was so bad. So, I'll be happy to not have that anymore.

Mack:
It's like jet lag, right? For every time zone you change, it takes that many hours to recover, something like that.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
Well, we won't get that hour back, and that's unfortunate. But I think the trade-off is worth it in this case.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
By the time this episode comes out, I think most people will be well under way with their playoff game preparations. Do you have a ritual, Stephanie, for watching the Oilers games?

Stephanie:
No, but maybe I should. Well, I'm just, like, I am one of those people that doesn't wash my Oilers shirt.

Mack:
Ooh.

Stephanie:
Is that gross? I washed it, like, before it started on Monday or whatever it was. I washed it that morning 'cause I knew it was gonna get stanky. Hopefully it gets stinky.

Mack:
It's mind-blowing to me. This is the third year in a row that we have We feel like we have a serious Cup run on our hands here, and they're still making changes. You know, the closure of 104th Avenue during the third period and for an hour after the game? It's sort of like, why didn't we do that last year, and the year before, and the year before that?

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Mack:
So anyway, I think it's great to see there's continual improvement, on how we manage the throngs of people that come downtown, especially with all the construction around. If you are coming downtown for the games or for watch parties or restaurants or whatever, just be mindful that 102nd Avenue is closed.

Stephanie:
104th.

Mack:
104th and 102nd Avenue.

Stephanie:
Oh, 100- Oh.

Mack:
Both of them are closed, right?

Stephanie:
Oh. Oh, right.

Mack:
For LRT construction. So, lots of construction underway. But don't let that get in the way of playoff happiness.

Stephanie:
Heck yeah.

Mack:
All right. Well, next time we chat, hmm, maybe we'll have won the series.

Stephanie:
Yeah, I guess so.

Mack:
I'm gonna say it. I'm not superstitious. Okay, we'll be back next week. Until then, I'm Mack.

Stephanie:
I'm Stephanie.

Mack:
And we're…

Stephanie:
Speaking.

Mack:
Municipally.