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"Uncapped with Executive Roustabouts" will provide candid, entertaining interviews with retired or former Oil & Gas executives whose "unfiltered" perspectives offer unique value to the industry's ecosystem. The primary audience includes current professionals looking for mentorship, suppliers seeking executive insights, and former peers interested in the guests' current lives. Initially hosted on LinkedIn via Funk Futures, the 45-minute video and audio sessions will balance informative discussions with humorous observations from the host.
JDK (00:03.061)
Well, welcome everybody to this week's Uncapped with Executive Rastabats. And I've got a real pleasure and a real honor today. We're speaking to a colleague and a friend of mine, Mike Yeager. How you doing, Mike?
Mike Yeager (00:17.988)
Afternoon, John.
JDK (00:19.841)
So let's talk a little bit about Mike's background with an introduction. Mike Yeager is a 1976 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, and he's a distinguished leader whose career spans decorated military service, global executive leadership, and extensive philanthropy. During his time in Annapolis, he was a three-year letterman on the Navy football team, helping secure three consecutive Commander-in-Chiefs trophies. And that's Army-Navy, right?
Mike Yeager (00:49.07)
That is an Air Force.
JDK (00:51.037)
and Air Force, there you go. Following graduation, he served as US Marine Artillery Officer for over five years before transitioning to a 26-year career at Exxon Mobil, where he rose to Vice President of Operations across more than 20 countries. And incidentally, that's where we got acquainted, was in Baker's Field, California with Mobil. He later served as the CEO of BHP Billiton Petroleum, and he notably doubled the company's profits during
Mike Yeager (01:11.66)
Voss John.
JDK (01:19.669)
his eight year tenure. A 2022 U.S. Naval Academy Distinguished Graduate Award recipient, he remains deeply connected to his alma mater through his service on the Naval Academy Foundation Board of Directors and significant contributions to athletic and student athlete facilities, including the naming of the Jaeger Pavilion and Navy Marine Corps Memorial Stadium. I've only seen pictures, but it looks like a fantastic place.
Mike resides not far from me in Houston, and he also has a home in Annapolis with his long-time wife, Robin. Welcome to the program, Mike.
Mike Yeager (01:56.45)
John, good to be here. Appreciate it.
JDK (01:58.497)
So let's start with some easy stuff. Did you get to watch Landman?
Mike Yeager (02:00.258)
Yeah.
Mike Yeager (02:03.618)
Yeah, yeah. Obviously, it's a little bit extreme rendition as we all know, but and it really combines about five jobs into one person. But it is humorous and it does attract attention. And I've been asked about that, John, probably 100 times. it's everybody's watched it.
JDK (02:13.225)
It does, it does. That's exactly right.
JDK (02:24.289)
Yeah, and you know that land man, the first scene I think he's getting beat by a Mexican drug cartel with a bag over his head. And then he's the operations manager and he was out there on a drilling rig. I mean, this guy's a, he can do it all. know, one man, he's a one man band. I always tell my friends who ask me about it as well, you know, it's not a documentary.
Mike Yeager (02:35.554)
Right. Good. That's right.
Mike Yeager (02:47.086)
No, no, it's meant to be entertaining and it is.
JDK (02:48.715)
Too many folks think it is.
JDK (02:53.153)
I a couple of great oil and gas movies that I just watch over and over again. What are your favorites?
Mike Yeager (03:00.046)
Oh, I think there's only one that really, there will be blood with Daniel Day-Lewis. Yeah, that's a, he's a fantastic actor and has portrayed a number of different things. So, and that one, once again, he's kind of an extreme guy, but he gets the Wells drilled and gets the leases bought and all that. So it's a good movie.
JDK (03:05.441)
Oh, oh yeah.
JDK (03:21.569)
And the stories in California don't hear lot of oil stories in California either. And think Upton Sinclair's book, Oil, was in Shell Beach, not far from Paso Robles. So what about Giant or Hellfighters or Thunder Bay?
Mike Yeager (03:24.546)
There you go. There you go.
Mike Yeager (03:32.408)
That's right. That's right.
Mike Yeager (03:38.126)
you know, anything with John Wayne going back there. had to fight a few fires and all that sort of, I think he was Mr. Boots and Coots or something. But yes, all of them I've watched, but there will be blood. I like the dramatic aspect of that.
JDK (03:41.269)
Ha ha ha!
JDK (03:51.775)
Yeah, I love that movie, but boy, I turned it on, my wife walks out the room, she can't stand it. It is tough, it is tough. The oil field, particularly back in the day, we were left alone to our devices in remote locations. A bunch of young people, mostly guys at the time. A lot of practical jokes going on. You got any good stories to tell about a good practical joke that you played on somebody, you got played on you?
Mike Yeager (03:55.4)
it is, it's tough.
Mike Yeager (04:08.014)
Yeah.
Mike Yeager (04:15.71)
John, guess as I was coming up, you know, you run into the characters, the guys that are just bigger than life and all. So I don't recall anything that was so much a practical joke as it was some of my travels. I've traveled on planes in the Middle East where it was me and two other gentlemen and they had their goats up there in first class.
been in places where the meeting rooms we would meet in for various discussions with local governments would be full of chickens. You'd have to chase the chickens out of the room to just sit down and everything. So it's those kind of things that I find I still think about all the time. They're very, very unique times like that that most people would not understand.
JDK (04:57.607)
I love that.
JDK (05:10.433)
I'm pretty sure you're telling me an act, you're not making this stuff up, because that's just crazy stuff.
Mike Yeager (05:14.563)
No, no, no. it is. And you remember the Tule Fog in California.
JDK (05:20.374)
You could only see two lines ahead of you on the freeway. I mean, that was just scary.
Mike Yeager (05:22.454)
you can see three feet. And you had to get out there and everything and you had to drive one mile an hour. So yes, those not not funny, but that was very, very unique as you understand.
JDK (05:34.027)
So I had one of my colleagues, he was the lead engineer at the time when I joined Mobile in Lost Hills, California. And the year before I got there, he's driving out to the lease and it's 5 a.m. and the fog is thick. You can't see but a line or two ahead of you on the road before the freeway. And he gets confused and he just drives into the cornfield. And to make it worse...
Mike Yeager (05:47.256)
Yeah.
JDK (05:59.101)
Another one of my friends who was also an engineer in that same office was following him and he drove right behind him into the court field. That's right, that's exactly right.
Mike Yeager (06:04.628)
I understand you yeah, you followed the tail lights. did. Yeah. Big Piney Wyoming was unique. You had to, you had to kind of buzz the airstrip and get the elk off the, off the airstrip in order to land and everything. so, those, those are, those were fun times.
JDK (06:21.867)
What other industry could have this kind of environment that's just normal? So you were in the Marines for five years after graduation, and you probably had a lot of choices about what to do afterwards. And why did you choose oil and gas? What made you think about oil and gas so much?
Mike Yeager (06:23.692)
No, I don't know. I agree.
Mike Yeager (06:40.18)
Yeah, well John, it was really kind of a two-step process for me. I'm 27 years old. I'm just getting out of my time and I'd spent most of it overseas. So I was a little bit, you know, unfamiliar with U.S. industry and the changes that have been made and all that. But I grew up in East Texas, north of here, and the oil and gas industry was prevalent all around me as I was growing up up there. So at least I was familiar with it.
And then when I had a chance to interview with Mobile Oil, which is where I started prior to the Exxon Mobile merger and everything, it felt an awful lot like the Marine Corps. There were a lot of guys there that had backgrounds like I did. The work was partially indoors and partially outdoors, as you know, lot of operating equipment, machinery, logistics, all the things that I was used to. in that sense, and of course the technical aspect of it was always...
an intrigue with me with my Annapolis education and everything. So it felt right and that's when I jumped in because it just felt so good to join.
JDK (07:47.625)
Interesting. Had you had family or friends growing up that were in the oil business?
Mike Yeager (07:52.365)
Not family, but my friends all around me and their parents and everything. So a lot of that, Exactly right, exactly right.
JDK (07:57.836)
So, smell your territory.
Now your career has been kind of a progression up and to the right almost every time. Not a lot of plateaus, not small steps back for developmental roles.
So you've got a great perspective about how to manage a career. Think about the workplace today. It's got different demographics. It's got technology. We're hybrids in places. What kind of advice might you give a younger engineer who's just kind of starting? What would you say to them to how to thrive in this industry?
Mike Yeager (08:29.762)
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, let me start off, John, by just not disagreeing with you, but just remind you that, I come out of the Marine Corps at 27 years old as a field engineer for mobile. I joined a field office and there's four engineers in offices to the right and four engineers to the left, and they're all 21 years old. So I really did not start out in the up to the right whatsoever. As a matter of fact,
JDK (08:53.665)
Yeah, that's right.
Mike Yeager (09:01.386)
I did not catch my, what I would call my age group until I was about 37 years old. So I was working for the first eight years or nine years where I was moving up quickly, but I was really behind those that were my same age in their appropriate jobs. So it took me a while to get there.
In regards to guidance and everything, I do tell people that it's really important to be needed. And the way you get to be needed is you become really good at something. So I do think it's important that young people strive for excellence. If they're going to be an engineer, be a real good one and be a specialist, if you will, at least early on. That way the company wants you and needs you. That's my opinion.
That's my biggest guidance, particularly for young people.
JDK (10:05.045)
So I mean buried within that is you gotta find what you like to do. And one of the things I sense with younger folks, particularly this last five or 10 years, I have found that there's a certain ambivalence with some folks about what they really love about declaring a major, so to speak, in the work world. How long did it take for you to find that major, so to speak, what you wanted your specialty to be once you started working?
Mike Yeager (10:23.703)
Yeah.
Mike Yeager (10:33.91)
Right, right. Well, you're right. And one of the things that I did, early on, once again, because I was a little older, possibly a little more mature, but it was, I was used to this from my Marine Corps days. I was used to looking and seeking out things that were, looked to be fun and looked to be interesting and all. So when I did join the industry, I did a lot of studying and reading on how the company works.
what its organization was, where the offices were around the country, what the offices did in every country. And surprisingly, as I learned this and I engaged with my management on this, there were several different times where I was asked to go to halfway across the country to witness something, to learn something new. You know, I grew up, my first initial assignment was in really shallow oil wells down here on the Gulf Coast.
but I had a chance to go out because I expressed some interest in the Permian Basin and sit on a deep drilling rig for two weeks. So I learned those things. then I went to South Texas on a special trip and I got to work in the gas plants for a while. So I do find that my management was really delighted that I was interested in these other things.
And then John, after a few years of kind of experience in a number of different activities, I kind of settled in that the production and drilling kind of combination and field development was what I really liked. It gave me a chance to use my economics, all those other things. So that was kind of how that went. But you have to get off your tail and go look for it is the point I think you're making, and I do agree.
JDK (12:21.013)
Yeah, and also, you know, there's also this aspect and boy for someone I think you would agree is you've moved so many times. You only get so many times to say no to something. And that says something to your management if you're always pushing stuff to the side. Sometimes it's going to be things you're asked to do that you're in love with. Sometimes it's not. Every one of those is a learning opportunity and you can't let them pass by. And I think you've probably rarely ever said, no, I won't do that.
Mike Yeager (12:42.232)
Yeah.
Mike Yeager (12:50.338)
No, I never did, John. And of course, you know, that eventually after I kind of got my feet under me a little bit and became a recognized performer, you know, that willingness to be flexible sent me to Nigeria, sent me to Angola, sent me to Saudi Arabia.
sent me to a lot of places where there was a problem and they asked me to go study it and give them a recommendation on how to fix it and everything. And that really came from a habit of seeking out new opportunities, seeking out new knowledge, and showing people that you were willing to do that. The other thing I tell young people is the more flexible you are, the more valuable you are to your company.
If you say, I've only got to live in one spot and I've only got to do one thing and I've only got to go home at 430, then that limits you, if you will. So the more you expand those activities and those limiters, the more I find that the company said, hey, Mike, let's do things together like that. So it was really good for me.
JDK (13:51.958)
Yeah. Conventional assets today seem, in a way to me, kind of quaint. You find it, you develop it, and then you produce it for many, many years. So the find of the developer kind of an event, two to five year event, but then you produce, produce, produce. And I think shale has changed everything, where you're kind of doing it all at once on top of each other, like heavy oil in some ways. Knowing what you know now about shale,
What do you think is the optimum way you might go about developing a prospect in shale for optimum results?
Mike Yeager (14:27.212)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, what I think John has happened is in the shale fields, what we have found is that when, the good Lord laid down this stuff millions of years ago, he didn't laid, lay this down where it's just one little shale strip. There are places where there are 50 different shale strips in a, in a horizon and
like which is what our industry is great at. We start off with the easy ones.
and we make those work and then we start working on the ones that are secondary and harder and harder and harder. And you've got now the shale being drilled in certain parts of West Texas where, you know, they're drilling 20 different intervals. And it's all because the shale is so thick and so multi-horizoned, if you will. So that's the part that to me you'd want to do if you're going to go get acreage, try to have that geoscience part of it to where you are trying to get where you've got that.
stack after stack after stack of oil. And even though it looks impossible today, as you and I both know, every 10 years, the industry's technology changes rapidly. So what's not doable today will be doable tomorrow. But you want more than one chance, is really what I'm saying.
JDK (15:52.082)
In shale in particular, people call it an oil field. It's really an oil field of oil fields. mean, you think about Eagleford, it stretches, it's like 600 or 800 miles. I mean, that's just a crazy amount of acreage to try to develop, even if it was a single company.
Mike Yeager (15:58.338)
It is, it is.
Mike Yeager (16:03.66)
Yes. Yes.
Yes, really is. But also John realized that the shale is really not taking place internationally that well. So you still got the U.S. having a number of different advantages, particularly the royalty owner where they want you in there because they make good money off of that and everything. So we still have a great economic system. We're obviously endowed with huge shale intervals to drill.
It's the economics for everybody that, and the government of course makes a lot of money out of this also. it's kind of a good place to be. Argentina has a lot of this. When I was in Germany, it has a lot of it, it hasn't taken off that much because the royalty owners don't get anything. So everybody's against it.
JDK (16:53.787)
If I was to make a forecast, I'd say the next shale boom would probably occur in Australia. Best case scenario.
Mike Yeager (17:01.804)
Yeah, that's not a bad part. keep looking for Mexico to take off also down there and everything since the gas could be sold into the US market, which is a giant, giant market, especially with the export LNG and everything. you're right. There are places that look like they'll be next.
JDK (17:22.369)
We've had our ups and downs in this industry. That's the nature of any commodity business, ours in particular. What was one of the most stressful times in your career?
Mike Yeager (17:28.855)
Right.
Mike Yeager (17:35.107)
Well, John, I got stressful times. I would say for the real stressful things that where I had just deep anxiety was when you became a very senior executive and you've said something in the public and you have to deliver on it. And then as you get closer to delivering on it, you end up with a problem.
I don't know whether you probably remember, we had the small field in the Gulf of Mexico called Neptune. we had our credibility as BHP as an operating company was on the line there. And one week before startup, which had gone perfectly, we had a problem with the structure of it. And we had to stop that, tell the public we needed a few weeks, go fix it.
So during that time, I would say the anxiety and stress for me, as well as about 100 other dedicated employees was very, very high. And it resulted in us working night and day. And then when we did bring it online a couple of weeks late.
we were very lucky that it came on instead of we thought it was going to come on at one rate, it came on at one and a half times that rate. So we kind of made up for it if you will, but those are very stressful times when everybody's worked hard for years and you still have problems right there when it before it's part to come up and the public's waiting on it. So.
JDK (19:03.713)
You know, that's interesting because I think we tend to believe that the higher you get in an organization, particularly as an executive, it's easy street. I've made it, I've arrived, I've done the hard work and now can just kick back. And you're saying something very different.
Mike Yeager (19:17.932)
without doubt, without doubt. And as a matter of fact, when we had got those hard times and everybody's looking to me for some guidance and all, we've got a, we've already sent the project team home. We were ready to go to work, go and produce oil. And then we had to reconstitute that project team, get everybody in high gear. It was extraordinarily stressful for everybody, not just me, but...
Obviously everybody gave it their all and we got everything fixed and got things going. So tough times. You just have to push your way through it and have stamina.
JDK (19:56.828)
And if you do it right, you're better for it afterwards.
Mike Yeager (20:00.796)
Well, you are and you learn and you learn that mistake and then you prevent that from ever happening again And that's how things get better. I agree.
JDK (20:08.097)
You've been a part of many acquisitions and mergers over your days. You know, I think about Petrohawk, of course, from BHP. You were part of the merger effort for Mobile in California with CalResources at the time, among others. Is it just about making the numbers work for you, or do you also think about other things as well when you think about a merger and acquisition?
Mike Yeager (20:33.356)
Yeah, yeah. Well, John, the numbers have to work, obviously, so you're not bypassing that. But no, that's clearly only step one.
In the case of working in California, that was with another very large multinational major, Shell. So was very important that we both saw the future the same. Obviously the two companies were gonna be putting joint money into that thing and you had to make sure that that was all gonna be copacetic and everything, because the development plan was the economics. So making sure that your partner or the people that you're working with, both your own people and those that you're acquiring are
with see the same future. Very, very important.
Also, in working with a petro-hawk, you have to be ready for a smaller company to the people may not come with you. So you got to ask yourself, can we do this? mean, they have a great team and we hope they will, but that's not what happens all the time. when, especially when industry is in a high point, people have options. So you have to make sure you're going after something that your own team can do and your own team can make the, the numbers work. So yeah, there's much more to it.
or numbers and money. It is about people and the characteristics of them and can we get this done?
JDK (21:56.236)
Yeah, I love that first one. I would call that a test of culture compatibility or something similar. Can we work together? Can we go forward together? Or are we just so different we just can't get there regardless of the numbers? The numbers are at risk if we can't get there.
Mike Yeager (22:03.221)
Sure. Yeah.
Mike Yeager (22:12.054)
Yeah, That's right. That's right. those people issues, but remembering if everything goes in the toilet, can we do this ourselves? Because that's what you got to be ready for.
JDK (22:27.105)
You know, I find that particularly relevant if it's very large company acquiring a very small company. Because those are typically different demographics, the people that gravitate one to the other. The folks in the small one are there for a reason, the folks in the big one are there for a reason. And I hear what you're saying. They just might not tolerate that big company anymore.
Mike Yeager (22:49.378)
without question. And you have to almost assume that they won't. Is my point.
JDK (22:54.451)
Interesting. I'm going to define core work as the value added work that creates competitive advantage. Hyperbole is things like moves the needle and up into the right, but it's stuff that's really material. That's the core. We do material work in the core work. What do you think is the core work of say an upstream company?
Mike Yeager (23:20.214)
Yeah, yeah. That's interesting, John. I've spent years studying this and actually, you know, kind of tried to orchestrate the organizations that we put in place to execute things based on some of this kind of thinking. you know, what I've arrived at is that there's, you know, the core work that I feel is essential is anything with knowledge.
your geoscience, your detailed engineering, all the things that are required so that the improvements that you have to make. You one of the things that's about our industry is the first one is supposed to cost X and the second one is supposed to cost 0.9X and then 0.8 and 0.7. So we have to drive efficiencies in our business to get it out. So I really try to covet and safeguard the people and the position
that are essentially the knowledge that we're gonna use to go forward. I don't want that knowledge to leave the company. Now, that being said, are a lot of...
jobs in our industry that there is no knowledge. There is, you're doing a task and you're doing a task over and over again and that task is very, very important, but it doesn't necessarily have to be, in some cases, even an employee doing that. So it's that split, John, that I've always tried to make sure that ran through everything that I was responsible for. We get the knowledge and we hold on to it, but jobs that don't require a great deal of knowledge.
I can handle those with some other flexibility.
JDK (25:01.793)
I'm going to interpret that my own way, of course, but when I hear you say that, I think of all the technical roles, the execution roles involved in acquiring, finding, and developing oil and gas reserves. It could be geoscientists, it could be project managers, it could be drilling engineers. Those are the people, because if you can't find new stuff and develop it, think about the competitive advantage. What does the stock market think of you if you can't do that and you're an oil company?
Mike Yeager (25:29.91)
Yeah, that's true. But even within that context, John, you can split that up where maybe the people that buy the pipe, they just buy in pipe.
JDK (25:41.14)
Absolutely.
Mike Yeager (25:41.935)
Their knowledge was given to them by us. There's nothing there that's really knowledge-based, if you will. So, and in some ways, you know, your senior accountants who give you information, you must hold onto those people. They're the ones that are telling you how the things are going. But there are further jobs down the list where, you know, maybe knowledge is not involved. So it just gives you flexibility in how you build the organization because the worst thing that can happen, particularly in a smaller company, is you end up with this big bloated group of people
that you can't pay for. So having some thoughts around knowledge versus non-knowledge jobs helped me over a long time.
JDK (26:21.057)
In my own head, I have this litmus test. If I do this function or activity better, is there a probability or a likelihood that I might influence the stock price? And that helps me define core work versus non-core work. I do think there's a big challenge though, which is, and you touched on it just a second, but because there's a lot of people involved with non-core work. So there's an elegant way of messaging here that you really have to thread that needle, that we want you to continue
Mike Yeager (26:31.308)
Yes.
Mike Yeager (26:34.926)
I think you're right.
JDK (26:51.081)
to work hard and deliver, but what you're doing isn't material to the stock of the company or the overall performance. That's a tough message for a lot of people.
Mike Yeager (27:02.678)
It is, it is. But I will tell you, John, if you go about that in the right way, there are people out there that want to show up at eight, do what you're telling them to do, and go home at five, and really don't care about...
the rest of it. They're good people, they're good teammates, but they've got other obligations maybe, or they've got other thoughts on their minds. So this is where you end up with these, say centralized locations where all the invoices are handled somewhere that you had to be in your office.
Those people, you love them and they're nice people, but they're after a different career path and everything. So there are people that can blend on both sides of that. You just have to treat them well, pay them well, but give them what they're looking for. Some people are looking to grow in a knowledge-based environment and some people are looking to handle the transaction and go home.
JDK (27:54.508)
So here's the hard one, and this is one that's near and dear to my heart. I debate this with my friends all the time. Is production operations core or non-core? What do you think?
Mike Yeager (28:04.462)
Yeah. Well, you know, John, there's been third party operations teams for a long, long time. So that concept is out there. I've never been a big fan of it. I find that there's a as an exclusive way. I do think you could have, let's just say on a platform, six or eight employees that all have the knowledge you're after. They make it all work and then have another 20 that come and go.
and do what those six tell them to. So once again, you can split that up a little bit and give yourself some flexibility is what I've learned. And that's around the world. That's around the world.
JDK (28:43.169)
you know, a kind of a career operations person, this is a tough one, right? In the end, operations is about making sure that you allow all the surface equipment from the wellhead to the meter to allow the well to produce as much as possible. So you can't make more oil if you're on the surface. You can only degrade it and pinch it down or squeeze it down from what the wellhead delivers.
Mike Yeager (29:08.948)
Right. Right. Right.
JDK (29:12.609)
So if that's the case, by definition, the value you bring is failure prevention. You can't make more well on the surface. Now.
Mike Yeager (29:19.758)
Exactly right.
JDK (29:22.591)
in the right circumstance, actually believe a contractor could do that. To your point, there's ways to make that work, but I find that there is something that contractors don't usually have, and that's a sense of ownership, which I believe is so very important to success. They might have the knowledge, the skills, the background, all of it, but the ownership.
Mike Yeager (29:36.462)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. if you kind of think about this knowledge versus non-knowledge, if you had a quality contractor doing tasks for a company foreman, then that can be a working arrangement, if you will. But you're right. can't be, we can't just.
That's like giving up on performance if you just discard it all the way where you pay no attention to it. You can't do that. But you can make a cheaper or flexible organization by thinking about the concepts of, I've got to have my employees have the knowledge and then I can leverage non-knowledge work off of them. You can do an awful lot with that.
JDK (30:12.373)
That's right. That's right.
JDK (30:30.837)
Yeah, I agree. Nearly every exec, since there were executives, has always kind of pounded the table and decried regulation, wanting less regulation, less regulation. Do you think that would help or hurt the industry? And how might it affect the stakeholders as well, whether there was more or there was less?
Mike Yeager (30:51.584)
Yeah, yeah. Well, John, this is a part of our industry that once again is, in my opinion, well cared for at the state level. I had complete afternoons with the governor of Texas. Lunch and...
well in the afternoon with the governor of Louisiana and Arkansas and their staff. And I can tell you to a person, they were as interested in this as I was. And they were, they wanted to hear from us as to what was common sense, solid, helpful, protective of the environment and the people, but not wasteful.
So that was the part I was most proud of, particularly in the states that I worked in, where there was an open door, come tell me if we're doing something that doesn't fit. Now, when you get at the federal government, John, that was completely different thing. And you're talking to people that are not owners of anything, and they're staffers. And I've never been as disappointed in my life. And some of them are still senators today.
they're not informed, didn't want to be informed, and just wanted to know how could they either get some votes out of it or something like that. So the state is a really, really good place, and I think the part you're talking about works well at the state. It's at the federal level that you end up with these edicts that you have to go beat back sometimes.
JDK (32:25.557)
I mean that is an interesting distinction. guess one of the things I always wonder about, whether it's more or less regulation, there's an aspect here about a level playing field. We all have to play to the same rules and, you know, of course as an industry person we want as less as possible to get the outcomes for the community and the other stakeholders as we can and not be wasteful. Because I think we both know there have been lots of examples of people betraying that trust without that
Mike Yeager (32:35.724)
Yeah.
JDK (32:55.551)
regulation and that term self-regulation does scare me a little bit.
Mike Yeager (32:56.824)
Yeah, yeah.
It does, it does. No, I think most of the executives in our business would welcome common sense value added regulation without question. They just want to have a discussion on that when it appears to be wasteful.
JDK (33:08.928)
I think so too.
JDK (33:13.237)
you and particularly as young people, talked about your own experience in the field, you weren't just an employee, you were a community member. You did not live far from where you worked and that's an important factor growing up.
Mike Yeager (33:21.838)
That's right. That's right. And it is, it is. And that outreach that all the companies are pretty good at. And once again, the royalty owners be think about it, John, when you got the royalty owner making, you know, 20 to 25 % of the revenue, which is what the shale business has, then you you've got them being advocates for you also. So yeah, it's important to be connected. I agree.
JDK (33:46.349)
I think of Jed Clampett and the Beverly Hillbillies when you talk like that.
Mike Yeager (33:49.583)
Yeah, well, think about it, John. Think about this. You know, normally think about the oil and gas being in the part of the country and everything. And we are very familiar with it. We've had it 100 years. But look what's happened in Pennsylvania and Ohio with the Marcellus. And you've got people speaking up for us now up there.
JDK (34:08.341)
You bet.
Mike Yeager (34:12.588)
You've still got the Maryland's and the Washington DC crowd that are against everything, but it just shows that when you've got something that's valuable to the community, valuable to the citizens, you can normally find a way to get it done.
JDK (34:27.017)
Mike, you do remember I'm a son of the great state of Maryland.
Mike Yeager (34:30.574)
I do. And I do remember that we both worked in California together too, so I'm well aware of those opposite views like that.
JDK (34:35.711)
We did, we did, we did.
JDK (34:40.445)
So no company can be successful by itself, although many have tried. mean, 100 years ago, companies like Mobile had their own drilling rigs, Texaco, and even 10 years ago, Pioneer had its own completion equipment. They're trying to do their own completions work. You've seen that over and over again.
Today we're probably in a different place where we recognize the need to outsource and supply things from special companies. When you think about working with a supplier, what are the specific capabilities you look for in a long-term partnership or something that's really going to change the playing field?
Mike Yeager (35:18.742)
Yeah, yeah. Well, John, the first thing that I look for is whether there's going to be a team dedicated to me or not, and whether that team is going to be able to stay with me for a while. And obviously, when you have drilling campaigns here in the United States, particularly in the shale, you know, the H &P rigs, the Schlumberger technology, the combination of those two is a pretty strong combination. If you can get a
team dedicated to you that wants to solve your problems and give you the time it takes to do your work. I will say this, as you go, when I worked internationally, the same relationship became even more important.
Not only did you want in Nigeria the slumberjays and the haliburtons to be available to you, they actually officed with you in many cases. So it really, really got that going. So that's what I look for. Can we have that, can we stack hands together and go after this really hard together rather than coming and going? That's what I try to make sure we have.
JDK (36:27.307)
So I heard there's gotta be some mutual goals in there. There's gotta be some ownership.
Mike Yeager (36:29.982)
yes, and mutually good for each other. Yes, and in some cases that means you give up on trying to bid the price down another 50 cents or something like that and accept what you've got and go after it together. That's right.
JDK (36:47.21)
Maybe let's talk, go to a little different direction. So a couple of larger topics. So LNG, LNG, LNG. I think the public in this last two weeks has probably learned more about LNG than they have in the past 20 years. 20 % of Qatar's LNG is down, and boy, that's a big hurt in the global energy markets. Meanwhile, there's a dozen or so plants that are gonna come online or heading towards FID in the Gulf Coast.
Mike Yeager (37:02.125)
Right?
JDK (37:17.795)
next decade, commonwealth, you the list goes on. What do you think the future of LNG looks like?
Mike Yeager (37:28.888)
Well, John, you have to really always be mindful of the fact that there are large parts of worldwide society that have zero energy themselves, zero. If you haven't been to Japan in a while, go there and talk to them. They're totally dependent. There's not one hydrocarbon in the entire country. you know, you still start with this.
Where is it needed? And the world to me is still extremely dependent on somebody bringing power to them. And the LNG part, of course, is, despite the naysayers, is the cleanest, the most economic way to do it. The ships are already built in many cases. It's handled well.
and great, great parts of society have to have it. So whether it be all of the Asian part, like I've described, with Korea and Japan, or parts of Europe where they're either gonna have the high-risk Russian gas come in or something safer from the outside, but either way they've gotta have it. I do think that the LNG business will continue to be a very, very strong part of our repertoire as an industry for quite some time.
you know, maybe another 50 years or that. That may last longer than oil. And then the other part that I do feel strongly about is I wouldn't call it infinite, but the United States in general, you could drill a well probably in the front yard of the White House and have something down below that that's got gas in it. So we are...
look at that Marcellus, look at all the different things all across the country, North Dakota, these things were not even known 15, 20 years ago. So we do have a geoscience environment here in the States that's really gas available. And I think we'll continue to be drilling these fields over and over again for quite some time. we have it, others need it. I think that will continue to be a very strong equation.
JDK (39:46.53)
Yeah, and you kind of emphasizing the need for it, which I absolutely agree with, and it will continue to displace other energy sources because it's cleaner. But it's also an economic antidote for stranded gas. In other words, wherever you have more gas produced, then you do have a local need or a regional need. So it's a way to monetize your excess gas to a market that isn't literally right next door. So it really is a win win.
Mike Yeager (40:14.55)
Yeah, it is. is. Now, some of those things, John, you know, end up being a little harder to do than you than we thought. mean, there are there there's a lot of gas in Alaska, but it's hard to get it out of there and everything, you know. So there's a lot of gas in Africa, but you don't see those LNG plants lined up. So it's complicated. You need a dedicated source for a long, long time.
JDK (40:16.483)
Mike Yeager (40:42.698)
you know those economics and it takes 20 year contracts to pay all that out. So you gotta make it work. Gotta make it work.
JDK (40:46.847)
That's right. That's right. Yeah. So I mean, you think about the implications for such a long-term investment. You got to start thinking about geopolitical risks, stability, how stable is the region? You got to start thinking about a workforce. Can you develop it in a quick period of time? Is it long lasting? You got to think about a supplier base. Can it mature quickly and stick around during the lean times as well as the good times? It's all of it.
Mike Yeager (40:57.334)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Mike Yeager (41:10.006)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you do, you do. And then of course the LNG facilities are one thing, the ships are another, the drilling of the wells is another. So you've got three big capital requirements to get all that done. So it takes a long time of dedicated work to make all that economic. But if you can, and as we can see here in the States, we do make that work. It's a wonderful, wonderful activity.
JDK (41:37.61)
I wonder if the future of LNG is going to start favoring countries with lower geopolitical risk. I think particularly with what we're seeing this last few weeks near and in Iran, that perhaps was a risk we didn't fully appreciate. You think about the Qatari LNG facilities. Do you think that's going to change investors' views about where to build the next wave of them?
Mike Yeager (42:06.565)
Well, no, John, I think that's well aware that we're, you you've seen the Madagascar thing that's been on and off now for 20 years, every major company that, so you're talking about that sort of environment, you know, not the Nigerian gas and what you could do. So it's not there, it's not there. So I think our industry and the executives making those decisions, you're exactly right. They're aware of this and having 20 years of...
JDK (42:14.507)
Mozambique.
Mike Yeager (42:34.68)
corruption or even sabotage free activity is a must.
You gotta have it.
JDK (42:43.713)
The only thing that gives me some pause about LNG is that gas, as gas has gotten more popular, particularly in the states, it's to a degree inevitable there's more gas leaking. You think about all the flanges and the connections and from the well head all the way to the burner tip.
And I do think that there's a technical solution, but there's still, it feels like there's probably gonna be more methane leakage in a gas economy. So you give it some back, it's still a benefit, but there is a cost to it. It's not at the burner tip, it's all the way to the burner tip.
Mike Yeager (43:18.072)
There he is.
Right, I do think the industry takes all these things seriously, John, and that's the kind of friendly regulation that I think they're willing to work with. It's when it goes ridiculous that you have a problem.
JDK (43:32.533)
Yeah, mean, it's gonna be nearly impossible, both technically and economically, to make that zero. Look into your crystal ball. Put on your hat. What do you think the oil company of the future looks like? And how's it different than today, really?
Mike Yeager (43:37.612)
Yeah, me too.
Mike Yeager (43:44.206)
Yeah.
Mike Yeager (43:50.817)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know. think the super majors, the guys that have the billion dollar checkbooks to do the projects that nobody else in the world can do are still going to be needed for a long, long time. There are this stuff that's been found in Guyana and...
the needs to get that into the market and all, and the economics of that. I think the majors will continue to be capable of handling these vast capital projects and getting them done and therefore will have a front seat on the really mega stuff. The smaller companies.
there are an awful lot of entrepreneurial men and women out there that have still done remarkable things, starting with nothing over the last 20 years. So the incentive to go make your fortune, for lack of a better word, is still there on the independent side. And I see just as much thinking on that as I've ever seen. to me, the changes that are going on, John, of what it looks like are is the tremendous amount of
quality of value that's come from centralized work.
You know, I moved 25 times around the world to learn my career. And now you can do that without having to go and live in all those places and all. the data world has really driven that where you can centralize things. When you do that, you make your company less expensive. You make your company more efficient. You make your company where it can run 24-7 in a more vibrant way and everything. So I think there are a couple of tactics like that that have really changed over time.
Mike Yeager (45:41.345)
But that centralization, the use of surveillance electronics at the wellhead versus having to be there yourself has made the industry more fun, made it more compatible to families, made it more compatible to even dual husband and wife both working at the same company kind of thing. So if you notice, there's a lot more of that now than there ever was before. And it's because we now have the ability to do that. And I think that is not only great for people development, but it's less expensive.
JDK (46:03.105)
Mm-hmm.
Mike Yeager (46:11.308)
more profitable too. So I think it's those kind of concepts that will continue to be pushed to their maximum. People may be doing this from their at their breakfast table someday, you know, that you just don't know, but that's where I think it's going.
JDK (46:22.401)
Yeah.
So you made me think of something else though, because I would suggest, I would submit to you and people, some of this is age related, that you're the leader you are today in part because of the moves that you've made. Now maybe you could have gotten that experience and that sense about the world in 15 moves as opposed to 25, but it's not one or two. There's gonna come a point when there's gonna be literally the armchair executive that's only moved twice in his career because he sat in his own home.
office and it's going to be interesting to see the difference in outlook from that executive and their team versus you and your team.
Mike Yeager (46:55.041)
Yeah.
Mike Yeager (47:02.67)
It will, John, and that's one where I have to kind of punt the football to the younger guys. Because, you know, some of that I can, like I said, I've lived through the centralization aspect and I can see how valuable it is. But still, there's nothing like walking the ground, knowing the people.
You know, the fact that I could walk into all those Kings and Queens offices out there, get their attention, explain my problems, and they knew who I was, and they knew I was there to, you know, I'd built some camaraderie with them. Boy, that's hard to do over the telephone. yeah, so you gotta, there's a combination in there that'll still have to be worked out.
JDK (47:35.253)
You bet it is. You bet.
JDK (47:40.959)
Well, this has been, this has gone way too fast. We're at the end of our time, when uncapped with executive roustabouts. Mike, I want to give you the last few minutes to promote any causes or other things that you want to talk about.
Mike Yeager (47:53.535)
John, thanks. I'm still such a fan of the industry. I think I try to help people on this all the time if I can. You know, when we talk about there's a couple of big topics going on in society today. One is the value of a college degree. Our industry.
is a tremendous opportunity for people that maybe the college is not exactly what's on their mind. We have dozens and dozens of different locations in our industry, the welding, the trucking, all that that is non-college needed, yet you've gotta have those people and they've gotta be quality. So I do think that we play a role in society, not only on the high end of the big technology stuff, but all the way down to the block
and tackling of the logistics and everything. So I just encourage people to think about their lives and know that if they're willing to work, our industry has room for everybody, if you will. The other thing I like about our industry, John, and that is it pays a living wage. We all were, we're well compensated in this. There's a lot of places you can go and work really hard and not make any money.
And we reward people because we know it's difficult. We know it takes sacrifice. We know it's hard. So therefore our compensation rates are pretty decent. So a young man or woman can take care of their family and our industry pretty well if they're willing to work hard. And then obviously Houston is a wonderful place to be. As a matter of fact, I tell people all the time that if you're willing to work hard, you can make $75,000 in Houston. Anybody can, regardless of who you are. So you just have to go hustle it up.
we have the stuff there. But the other part, John, that is important to me, and that would be my little brief part of, you the early part of my life in the military. That's the other aspect that I think gives people a chance to grow up, gives you a chance to see what's on your own mind when sometimes you don't even know, gives you a chance to see some of the world.
Mike Yeager (49:56.193)
And then industries like ours are available to you when you come out of there and everything. I tell every young man and woman, it doesn't matter who they are, when they arrive in this country.
the military can help with getting you down the road in a really, really good way. I spoke to the JROTC classes at one of the high schools yesterday, all day long, six periods, and that's what we talked about. The young people want to get out of poverty and want to break the cycle, and I try to talk with them about how they can use the military to do that. It helped me, gave me, I learned more there than I ever have in anything else in my life, and obviously,
then I feel good about it also, which is not a bad thing. So those are things that are important to me and I hope people give those some consideration.
JDK (50:45.597)
Absolutely. Mike, you're still given. Given, given, given. And we thank you for that. So for all the audience members out there, we'll see you next time. This is John Krohm from Uncapped with Executive Rastabouts. Take care.