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You are a business owner who wants to prioritize people and planet over profits (without sacrificing success). That can feel lonely—but you are not alone! Join host Becky Mollenkamp for in-depth conversations with experts and other founders about how to build a more equitable world through entrepreneurship. It’s time to change the business landscape for good!
Faith Clarke (00:00)
Hi, Alicia. I have been looking forward to chatting with you because I feel like in this conversation, we're gonna have a ton of fun with all of the various ways that with our multiple intersecting identities, we've seen discomforts and conflict show up and be navigated poorly or well, you know, as the case may be. just as a disclaimer,
Everybody who's listening knows that we're in a conflict and discomfort series where we're just exploring what's going on in our bodies and how our response to what's going on in our bodies when we're uncomfortable impacts how we relate to other people. And then when we have power, how that shows up in terms of what happens. But first, who are you? What do you do in the world? And then when you hear the word discomfort,
What shows up in your mind, pictures, like what happens?
Alesia Galati (00:52)
Yeah. Well, I'm Alicia. I'm the host of a few podcasts, Podcasting Unlocked, which is a podcast about podcasting. And also We Read Smut, which is exactly what it sounds like, but talking about Smutty romance from the lens of intersectionality and diversity of bodies, sexuality, etc. Right? Not just, and race. So race, body, and ability as well.
And that's really important for me and something that I've been really enjoying. Like the conversations that I've had over there have been really fun. But I'm also a business owner. run a full service podcast management agency. And then I'm also a wife and mother to two boys. So yeah.
Faith Clarke (01:34)
And with those like four or five things you just said, you have like 30 jobs.
Alesia Galati (01:38)
Right. Exactly.
So when I think of discomfort, I think of probably a workout. Right. So like I am in a fatter body. I'm over 200 pounds. I'm five five. Right. To kind of give you a visual for the people who are listening. And
I love a good workout. like working out with weights because I feel stronger. It's not really about like the quote unquote losing weight or having the ideal body. I feel so much stronger in my body when I lift heavy. And I think of that moment of, you know, I like do a lot of like YouTube video workouts. And I think of that moment of like 10 seconds left in that specific rep or that specific whatever combo that we're doing. And I'm like,
I want to give up. This is hard. Why did I say I was going to do this? Right? How dare I? And pushing through that to the end or sometimes being like, I kind of just need to take a break and sit with this for a second. Right? We're going to try this heavyweight next time. Let's go a little lighter.
Faith Clarke (02:29)
Why did I make these choices for myself?
I'll just sort this through that.
Alesia Galati (02:47)
for the next reps, right? Something like that. But really being understanding that like, this is uncomfortable. What does my body need? I'm feeling discomfort. What do I need in this moment? Which I think is really interesting in the discussions that you and Becky have had of like moving through that discomfort or do we sit in it? And I think that so often we don't sit in it. Cause our reaction as human beings is to always say, I don't like this.
let me move out of it. And so it's even got me thinking about like, where do I do that? Probably a lot more than I realize.
Faith Clarke (03:20)
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I think it's interesting this example of the workout, right? Because there is the sit with it. And there's also the, what's the kind of story I tell myself when I feel it, because that informs whether I can sit with it or that I can move through it or whether I back away from it. So when I have my knee injury, there's a part of me that was, I'm not sure.
Alesia Galati (03:39)
Right.
Faith Clarke (03:49)
what this discomfort means. Like I didn't have stories about knee pain. I had my mother's story, two knee replacements. And so I wasn't, I needed a trusted voice for me that was a PT to say, yeah, this is a hundred pound leg press you can do. If you feel pain that is blah, blah, blah, let me know. And it just, because I didn't have my stories, I think so many of us in the conversations, Becky and I've been having,
Alesia Galati (03:57)
All right.
right.
Faith Clarke (04:18)
Like the story then informs the how we sit with it so far through or, or alchemize it like, Oh, this is, you know, I'm a born as in labor. I'm one contraction closer. And that was the thing I say, I'm one contraction closer so I can move through or this thing is on kill me. I'm out super fast, you know, and, um, what do you think informs your stories are on discomfort? Certainly in terms of lifting.
Alesia Galati (04:31)
great.
Wait.
Faith Clarke (04:47)
but just generally speaking.
Alesia Galati (04:50)
Yeah, I think so. I grew up in a single parent home. I'm the oldest of five kids and my mom was an addict for the most of my childhood. And then we went into a women's program, which was supposed to be 18 months, but was actually, we were there for 10 years. So it was a cult. And I, in case there's any miscommunication on that, definitely a cult. And what I think about
Faith Clarke (05:10)
Mm-hmm.
Alesia Galati (05:19)
discomfort. And I think this is where I think I need to personally look at maybe where I'm doing this is I hear push through push past from the cult, which is what they would always tell you to do, right? Like, we're in. I know you're 13 years old and we're doing an all night prayer service. No, you're not allowed to slip fall asleep, push through push past. Right. And so I think part of me is like,
I don't like that because that's reminiscent of that. But also there are parts where I do need to push through and push past. Right. And so I'm kind of in discussion of this topic. I'm, I'm feeling a bit torn on how I feel about it because it is bringing up more than just, well, it's just discomfort and let's keep going. Right. Like when you've had an interesting life, I think we can always
Faith Clarke (05:49)
Yeah.
Alesia Galati (06:14)
take it back to the stories of childhood or things that maybe we saw other people do. And so that's kind of where my mind goes.
Faith Clarke (06:21)
Yeah, yeah. I think that the formative story kind of sits in a place in our systems that it's the fast response. so although, push to push past is wisdom in certain situations, but because of where it sits for you, then it's also the first thing that shows up and then you're, no. That thing, don't know, keep it away.
Alesia Galati (06:42)
Right. Jump back out.
Faith Clarke (06:48)
And I think about for me, discomfort, didn't avoid it because I couldn't. But I also, I'm, like my strategic mind was built around, how, these things will happen again. How do I mitigate it? And so just the automatic, let's mitigate it.
Alesia Galati (07:11)
Bye.
Faith Clarke (07:14)
is part of my own. So let's be as quiet as possible so that it doesn't, you don't contribute to making the thing bigger, you know, powerful people. And then also how do you mitigate it? And so I think for all of us recognizing that some of these formative stories, they are just that, they're stories, they're served us. But then how do we give ourselves enough space in the moment of discomfort to know, this is a moment where
Alesia Galati (07:22)
I
Faith Clarke (07:42)
I am building my strength and I do want to hold this whatever you're lifting. I don't want to kind of build my own like shame situation here by asking whatever the heavy is for you. So how do you think this plays out for you? Like we talked earlier before we started recording about
Alesia Galati (07:45)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Whatever is your day, you've got it. Yes.
Faith Clarke (08:04)
in women's bodies and having periods and how the implication of that is a kind of, in some ways, maybe a resilience or a tolerance, a distress tolerance that slows down the runaway, depending on the kind of period you have. Because I have friends who are just like, you have pain? And I was like, whoa, that's wild.
Alesia Galati (08:17)
Right.
It's amazing. Good for them.
Faith Clarke (08:28)
That's awesome. That's good. Yeah. But so depending on, again, some of those, there's strength that's built through the having to endure discomfort. And how do you think that, whether it's strength or fast storytelling or whatever, how's that showing up in your own day-to-day navigations with discomfort at home? And how does that connect to conflict for you?
Alesia Galati (08:52)
Yeah, I think that being in a woman's body, especially if you have had painful periods or do have chronic pain. So I also am someone who has interstitial cystitis, which means that I have pretty much potholes in my bladder lining. And so if I have something that's too acidic, sometimes intercourse can be painful, right? So it's like a verb varying things depending on the day, which can cause extreme pain.
Faith Clarke (09:16)
Right?
Alesia Galati (09:18)
right afterwards. And so sitting with pain is it's not unknown to me. And I think that one thing I try to do is to communicate that as best I can with the people around me. So being the only woman in my house in a woman's body, also understanding that I'm raising boys into men in a very patriarchal society, and I do want them to be able to stand in the gap.
for the women around them, whether it's coworkers or friends or partners, whatever that is, that they can be an advocate for those women in their lives. I don't like not have those conversations with my kids. My kids are 11 and eight. I got my first period when I was 11. My sister got her first period when she was eight. And so we talk about menstrual cycles in the house. We talk about...
So I was explaining how metrostatic goes typically work and why they happen. And my one kid goes, so, okay, so like every 27 days, like that's about, and I was like, not really. So like some bodies don't have it every 27 or 28 days. It is dependent on what your body's doing. Sometimes it's hormonal. Some people don't have them at all. Like it really just depends on, and every person is so different. And I was like, just like,
The eight year old has autism. No one else has autism like he does. You met one autistic person, you met one autistic person and that's it, right? So everyone has a different experience with this. And so explaining to that to them in a way that's like girls your age are learning very early to push through their discomfort, to still show up when things are difficult.
Faith Clarke (10:45)
Right.
Alesia Galati (11:00)
And I want to instill that in them. Obviously I'm not going to be like, all right, so do 50 pushups so that you feel like, no, we're not doing that. But understanding, and I think it's just this idea of, and this is why I love romance so much, it's like the experiences outside of ourselves that we can see and have better empathy and better understanding for that allow us to maybe have more grace when someone is in discomfort, that we can sit with them, that we can.
you know, encourage them if they do need to keep going to encourage them to keep going or to understand why they might be reacting the way they are because they're feeling discomfort, right? And to not shy away from those conversations. yeah, it's being a parent is hard. We're all just kind of figuring it out as we go. Right?
Faith Clarke (11:47)
parenting books lied, man, because it's
just, it's not, it's not three steps to, no, none. ⁓ And I love this connection with story, romantic novels and any other, because there's something about allowing yourself to be in somebody else's shoes that helps you broaden this sense of when it's my turn, I have something else to pull on, but also
Alesia Galati (11:53)
Nope.
Faith Clarke (12:12)
when I'm witnessing it in my life, I don't only have my stories, my origin stories, my biases, you know. So there is something about that. Thanks for just bringing that into the picture. Because we don't have to just 50 pushups. Like I'm thinking about where else should I be building suffering into my human's lives? And it's not, I don't want to, but it's just something that
Alesia Galati (12:19)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Hmm.
Faith Clarke (12:42)
Yes, when you have some privilege more than the privilege you grew up with, how then do you invite your kids into some of the strengths that you had to develop? And I do think that that's exposure to other people's stories.
Alesia Galati (12:57)
Yeah, telling your story too and explaining like here's what my experience was like. I think the stories that we hear, the stories that we read, they, the amount of empathy that I have now, even thinking about my mom's addiction, right? She's since past. But I always was like, why? Like, I don't understand the choices. I don't understand.
the decision making, right? Like all of it just doesn't make any sense because it impacted me so extremely. Right. And I remember reading a story where it was a romance story where the person struggled with addiction and it was so eye opening to be like. I still don't love it because it ruined my childhood. Ruined is like an extreme word right for that.
Faith Clarke (13:49)
Yeah.
Alesia Galati (13:52)
But it impacted me so heavily in the person I am today, but I understand a little more. I can empathize a little more. I might not agree, but I can understand. And I think that there's something really powerful in being able to do that. like you said, pull from the stories that we hear, not just from our own lived experience, to be able to...
just have better relationships with the people around us and understanding where they might be coming from. But that's where I also think that diversity is so important in the stories that we're reading. That one of my favorite authors, Kennedy Ryan, she talks about how the stories we read should be a window and a mirror. So a mirror reflecting back, we should read stories that are reflecting back our own experience so that we feel seen, we feel loved, we feel understood.
and a window to the world around us and to the people that are around us or the experiences outside of our own. And I think that that's so true and try to cultivate that with our kids, right? But I think too with making them kind of sit in discomfort. I see this trend, I forget what they call it, but it's like pretty much like just sitting in silence for an hour. I don't think that's it, right? Don't know that that's it, but maybe it's...
All right, we're going to have a little more structure in the day. They're homeschooled, so they kind of just have free reign for the majority of the day, especially when I have to work. And so it's like, okay, during this time, you have creative free play time. But this time we're going to be doing, and you're not having the TV on during creative free play time. We don't do that. We don't need that. But then this time we have lunch. Now after lunch, while we're digesting and chilling, we can do a documentary.
but it has to be a documentary, right? It can't just be like, the story bots version of the world. No, it has to be an actual like Nat Geo, Discovery Channel documentary. We're learning about the world outside of us. And I think that like having that structure has really helped to be able to make them sit a little bit with that discomfort of being like, but I wanna, I wanna do this. I wanna do that, which I hear at least twice a day from them.
But I wanted to, I understand you got five more minutes, right? And so I try to also give them wiggle room and having kids either on the spectrum or neurodivergent can make that a little more difficult, right? With navigating that and understanding what exactly their brains are doing. ⁓ And so like having that being like, okay, I understand you're frustrated that we have to switch right away.
Faith Clarke (16:23)
Yep.
Alesia Galati (16:29)
you have five more minutes to finish what you're doing, at that point we are switching, right? Instead of just being like, no, we're switching right now. Because their brains, like there's a lot of resistance that happens in their brains when we do that. And so it's, parenting is hard.
Faith Clarke (16:34)
Right.
And I think that speaking to discomfort, even like for me, I did a complete switch from the way I was parented in our homeschooling, we have that in common. And so I encountered...
Alesia Galati (16:58)
Yeah.
Faith Clarke (17:02)
discomfort, both in the execution of things like that, figuring out when am I giving space, when am I holding it firm and all that type of thing. And then I encounter the discomforts of the observer. I have a pretty active whoever they are. It's taking a ton of years to quiet them. I know, I know it's a smaller group of people, but the sense of wait, so I'm navigating this unknown.
Alesia Galati (17:21)
Mm.
Faith Clarke (17:30)
and helping shape these children. And then I am feeling the discomfort of implementing something that feels really different from me. And how do I keep choosing in values aligned ways when I am feeling the pressure as I watch my thing, maybe not executing the way I had imagined. You know, I read it in the book and I said, yeah, this is cool. Gentle parenting, whatever, you know, and then, and then no, no, it's right in front of me. And how do I.
Alesia Galati (17:51)
Yeah.
Faith Clarke (17:59)
be with that and manage that on my own. So part I think of this feels like a segue to me of navigating conflict because a lot of my clients, their goal in saying to me, hey Faith, we want a restorative conflict navigation structure. What they're saying is, I'm saying, yeah, I can help you with that. But what they're saying is they want to avoid conflict. And I'm like, no, the both and. There's some juicy stuff in here.
Alesia Galati (18:21)
Right.
Faith Clarke (18:26)
right? Let's figure out how we can be with conflict so we can create all the beauty that we want to create in the world. And they're looking at me eyes glazing over because it's like, know, we're just trying to not quarrel. So how have you navigated your discomfort in relationship in ways that help you experience conflict the way you want, as well as the ways that, you know, made things fall apart?
Alesia Galati (18:27)
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Hmm.
It's hard because I'm thinking, I'm thinking about like workplace, right? And when there's conflict in the workplace, I worked in manufacturing for a number of years. So one woman to like five women to 150 dudes, right? So always having to stand my ground in my power. I know what I'm talking about, right? Kind of attitude while also creating friendships.
at the same time without being stepped on or over. And so navigating that. But conflicts in the workplace, I know there was a lot of mitigation. had a new employee that I'm thinking about a time we had a new employee come in who had a stutter. And before he even got hired in, my boss was like, I need you to look up how best we can inform the team. Like,
Faith Clarke (19:25)
Yeah.
Alesia Galati (19:51)
HR approved. This was not my job at all. Like, inform the team of how to act and what is acceptable behavior and what is not acceptable behavior so then I can present it. And I remember, I've never experienced someone with a stutter. Sure, like a kind of stuttering over your words quickly, but not someone who has is an adult who has a stutter.
Faith Clarke (19:52)
Okay.
Yeah.
Alesia Galati (20:14)
And so I remember like looking it up and then having like the core knowledge, but then also the actual, like having to deal with the actual experience. And when you are working with someone with a starter, you have to be incredibly patient, not interrupt, allow them to get their words out. And that is hard.
right in a workplace where you're fast paced, where you're like, I got to get things done so I can go home on time to stop, pause and respect this person's abilities or inabilities to communicate. So I'm thinking about that experience and like, okay, how did we mitigate it by being informed and also sitting a little bit in discomfort?
to ensure that this person had the same respect as anyone else. So yeah.
Faith Clarke (21:11)
Ooh, that's juicy. I like that. Because there's something, I'm in a process, I might be writing a piece on curiosity as resistance. So I'm playing with the idea of curiosity as a space making tool.
Alesia Galati (21:12)
You
Mm.
Faith Clarke (21:30)
because the thing, something happens and I have a reaction. And yeah, if you've, if you have this reaction a million times, if you've done a bunch of work, you can kind of slow it down and say, yeah, that's from 10th grade when I, know, but, but I think that there's something about having shortcuts to our space making that feel like, regardless how much you understand what your story is.
Alesia Galati (21:34)
Right.
Faith Clarke (21:53)
just building in the space. And so as I'm listening to you talk through this starter experience and I'm thinking about some of the experiences I have with my own kid with autism and just thinking about the conflicts I've helped navigate, often these things hit like a powder keg because somebody didn't hold, they didn't pause. They didn't kind of like, and yeah, when our stories are activated, it's very hard to pause. But if something about
Alesia Galati (22:13)
Right?
Faith Clarke (22:20)
It's playing out. I'm feeling the discomfort of it. I want to speed this up. I want to respond. I want to give this person their word as they struggle with it. know, can, can I lean back and be curious and have space with my own son who spells to communicate? I find myself knowing the word because he's slow and there's a motor control piece. I find myself knowing the word and the discipline.
Alesia Galati (22:27)
Right.
Yeah.
Mm.
Faith Clarke (22:50)
of not saying the word, of even releasing, I think I know the word. Can I let that go as we're going, A, C, you know? Can I just hold that in my body? And it feels like such an incredible practice to be able to slow everything down and then be able to respond after, after you've let that space be.
Alesia Galati (23:00)
Right.
Yeah, I'm even thinking about my older kiddo. He's... God, he loves to talk so much! ⁓
Faith Clarke (23:24)
you
You just wait till 17 or so and it's happy about 11 p.m.
Alesia Galati (23:34)
And sometimes I have to say, does that add value to the conversation? You're interrupting your brother who's trying to get his thoughts out, right? And so it's like that juxtaposition of like now teaching littles to stop and pause. And this is going to be a life skill for him to stick with him as he gets older.
Faith Clarke (23:53)
Yeah.
Alesia Galati (23:56)
because it is so hard. We are so impulsive. We want it quick. We want it fast. We already know what they're going to talk about because I know, I know, I know, which kids do constantly. And it's, it is hard. was so hard to sit there with a smile and not be like,
Right? Like, it is hard. You have to really think about it and hold the attention there. Yeah.
Faith Clarke (24:18)
Hold your attention there. Not, not, not,
yeah, leave the room. Yeah.
Alesia Galati (24:23)
So difficult, but I think it's such an incredible practice that we could use too as adults.
Faith Clarke (24:29)
So where in your navigation, perhaps either at home or in, because you meet up all kinds of people, podcasters as well as clients, where have you experienced the desire for somebody to hold space and pause for you? That if they had paused, maybe the conflict would have been easier to navigate or something. Would have just been less difficult.
Alesia Galati (24:45)
Hmm.
I think about my relationship with my husband, honestly, is what comes up for me. This is something that we've been together for 13 years, married for 10. It's something we've worked through, right? Because the person I am today is not the person that I was 13 years ago. My values now are shifted because I'm a parent, because I'm a business owner, because I...
you know, I'm home all the time whereas before I was leaving the house every day and he was the stay at home parent, right? So like we are just completely different people and having to navigate that and communicate that and understand that while I'm also changing, he's also changing. And so it's, and also understanding that when conflict happens in an intimate relationship with someone who you are with day in and day out, right?
that most of the time it's not even about you, the reaction, right? And having to communicate that with my husband, I think has been hard because I would be like, I'm just thinking about like after my kiddos, I had postpartum depression after the first one. And the second one was really difficult too. Not to the level I think of postpartum depression, but definitely stress level was through the roof.
Faith Clarke (26:06)
Yeah.
Alesia Galati (26:07)
And I remember trying to communicate that and like now looking back and explaining like being able now to explain how I was feeling in those times and where the support was lacking. I think has allowed us to grow better together now, right? Instead of just jumping out and being like, well, you're not giving me what I need. Goodbye. I'm sitting with it and being like,
I understand that personally so much of this is so hormonal for me. And he is not in a woman's body and does not understand at all. Right. And so now I have to get through this to then be able to communicate it. And that was just really difficult. We made it through obviously, but I think I do wish that there was more.
Faith Clarke (26:47)
All right.
Alesia Galati (27:01)
space during that time. think that time could have been easier for both of us if both of us had either communicated better and he had listened better and understood maybe had empathy right of understanding where I might be coming from with my experiences. So yeah that's what comes to mind.
Faith Clarke (27:22)
What do you think is just distilling that out? I want a good recipe. You know, it doesn't matter. It doesn't work anyway. We have to figure it out in a moment. But like what's the maybe two or three practices that we can be walking with in the understanding, aware and understand our discomfort and how to be with that while with another.
Alesia Galati (27:28)
Right.
Bye!
Faith Clarke (27:48)
Because I am sure your husband also had his discomfort around whatever was going on and responded out of that versus listening. So how together can we not mitigate, perhaps, but navigate beyond the journey of being with each other's discomfort in ways that don't necessarily create harm?
Alesia Galati (27:53)
Right.
Yeah.
I think understanding your discomfort first is really important. And maybe this is journaling, right? And like sitting with your feelings. I know it sucks, but sitting with your feelings and actually being like, this is how I feel. I feel this way right now. And this is maybe how I'm experiencing this conflict. And then maybe flipping it. What are they feeling when I react this way or when I...
you know, maybe poke this thing, knowing them as a person, especially when you've known them for so long and you understand maybe their childhood traumas that could be triggering them. What might they be feeling? Where might they feel like they're lacking, that they're trying, not mitigating, but like trying to make up for in this way. Which is why I think that reading and understanding other people's lived experiences, it can be so incredibly powerful to
take you outside of me, me, me to the world around you. And so maybe taking the journaling about your own feelings and then journaling about what might they be feeling. And they're just being a jerk. Sometimes that's what it is, right? Sometimes, right. But like, let's go a little deeper. What might they be experiencing? And then from there, having a discussion about it. I think that taking time.
Faith Clarke (29:14)
Yeah, yeah. We did. What else is going on here?
Alesia Galati (29:33)
to sit in your discomfort and giving them time to sit in it also is important to where we can approach it with level-headed minds and say, I wanna talk this through, it's now a good time, right? I always make sure that like, are we both in this right head space to have this discussion? And this is something that I think is worth talking about and like digging into because I don't want it to happen again or I want it to happen differently next time where we can.
grow together in this, right? So I think that being able to take some time and then coming together and saying, here was what I was feeling. What were you feeling during that time? And was there something that I said or did that maybe was triggering or impacted you in a negative way that you did react that way? Or was it literally just your day was terrible and maybe you need to deal with some things, right? So like you get to have those conversations a little better.
And I think that that has made a huge difference in, and I think that can make a huge difference.
Faith Clarke (30:32)
I think, mean, the theme I'm hearing is just slow everything down. It's slowing it down enough to know what's going on for you. It's slowing it down enough to have some space to perspective shift in whatever way you can. It's slowing the conversation down that you have about it. And for me, a friend of mine said it this way, that emotions are like lights on the dashboard of your car.
Alesia Galati (30:35)
Yeah.
Faith Clarke (30:56)
So there's something going on here. If that's a something that something to do with me, but there's a learning opportunity, whether it's about me or about the context or, and can we in this relationship, in this work relationship, learn together by, you know, let's look at the dashboard together. I felt this thing, you felt that thing, what's going on. and so that all of that is about just being, being slower with the whole thing versus knee jerk.
Alesia Galati (31:15)
Yeah.
which is hard in our society. We are not taught it. It is not encouraged, especially with the rise of AI, right? It's get the answers quickly as you possibly can. And that's something I've been pushing my kids with is like, can you look this up real quick? I could, or we could think about it. What is the actual answer? What do we know about this topic? Where do we have a book that we could maybe explore this topic a little more?
Faith Clarke (31:33)
right now.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Alesia Galati (31:52)
and get the answer instead of just going to Google every single time or going to an AI tool every single time. It's not helping the world. Use them as little as we possibly can. And also the fact that they're free right now is it's very reminiscent. I saw somebody relate this to the formula rise in the nineties, maybe eighties, nineties, how formula was free for quite a long time until it wasn't for babies.
And like AI is free right now until it's not. And then information is behind a paywall. that what? Do I want my kids to always rely on tools for information? No. Right. Like, let's sit with the discomfort. Let's look it up together. We have tons of books that we could use with tons of science books or even like a documentary that we can watch to explore this a little more. So, yeah.
Faith Clarke (32:26)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alesia Galati (32:44)
sitting with it is hard and we're not encouraged to do so, but I think that it can definitely help in all of these situations.
Faith Clarke (32:53)
think it might have been a marketing book. I don't remember. Maybe in the show notes, I'll remember. there's this guy was talking about the difference between, I don't know if it was fifth graders in a typical school system solving like visual math problems and some kids from somewhere else. I want to say Japan, but I don't know if that was. And he said the difference in their abilities to solve the problem was just staying with the problem. It was like some...
two minutes more. It was just staying with the looking two minutes more. And it reminds me of this researcher who commented, graduate student came in for the first time and he said, study this ecosystem in a fish tank situation, study it and write a paper on it. And so like, you know, two hours later, the guy came out and wrote the paper and he was like, two hours? He said, go back. There's just so much more to see.
Alesia Galati (33:47)
go.
Faith Clarke (33:50)
and understand if we take some more time. And so at the end of it, by the time the guy sent him back a few times, he spent a month studying it. He's like, okay, we have something that we can talk about that's really rich, right? So just this invitation that I hear for us as we navigate difference, as we hold our discomfort and as we be with each other, yes, slow down, slow it down.
Alesia Galati (33:50)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Faith Clarke (34:16)
Yeah.
Alesia Galati (34:17)
Yeah,
so cool. I learned so much. Yes.
Faith Clarke (34:19)
Thank you, Alicia. This is lovely. I'm
to talk about smart next time. You know what? I thought it earlier and I'll just drop it in here as we think about how we're navigating workspaces. A lot of my clients, the reason they can't slow it down is because it feels urgent. There's too much risk. Right? And I think in story, we release the risk. It's the, you know, you know, talked about the fact that I can get upset with characters in books.
Alesia Galati (34:25)
Okay, yes.
Faith Clarke (34:47)
but it's the character's risk. And I get them to just be the bystander, whether I'm quarreling with them or not. And in some ways that gives me a perspective that I may not allow myself to stay in the story in my real life. Right? So I invite everyone that when you find yourself being trigger, you know, happy in conflict and discomfort, Alicia has a recommendation for a book with a character that can help you see another perspective if you stay with it.
Alesia Galati (35:10)
to you.
Faith Clarke (35:15)
Maybe the audio version if you're not patient enough to read it.
Alesia Galati (35:18)
Right.
Yeah. I mean, so one example that I can I can definitely give. recently read it was a story where kind of a one sided rivals, which I absolutely love. Like the one person is like, I'm going to be better than you. I am going to try to be better than you in whatever aspect. And then the other person is just like, I just like you. And I like hanging out with you. It's very opposite energies at each other.
and so that is always really fun, but the main character, the male main character, he had OCD and he had it because of, when he was in foster care and the female main character, came from like an incredible two parent home, wealthy, well to do, had everything handed to her, like had to almost work harder to prove.
that she was just as good as her older sisters, right? So like that kind of feeling, whereas the guy he's in foster care, doesn't really know his parents, had very abusive foster parents, and to the point where he was, he would have to like wash his hands, like in a certain number of times in order to feel done and released when he was feeling really big feelings. And
That is not something that I've ever experienced. It's not something that I've ever, you know, had any friends that have experienced. But to then see how she sat with him and like, and he was like, I don't want you to see me like this. And his re it was his coping mechanism. And if I can control the situation to what you said earlier, if I can be quiet, then I'm not a problem. If I can just keep everything clean, then no one's yelling at me.
And so she, instead of being like, when are you going to be done? Right? Like your hands are pruned now, let's go. Right? Exactly. Instead, she said, how many more cycles do you need to feel this release? Like to have it be through your body? And he was like, I don't know. And she was like, okay. And then just stood with him until he was done.
Faith Clarke (37:08)
Yeah.
We don't need to strip away the moisture anymore.
Alesia Galati (37:32)
And I was just like, wow. The book is they wouldn't dare. And it's like a bit of they they constantly dare each other to do things and they end up falling in love. Bye for bi reps, bisexual main characters. They wouldn't dare by Deanna Gray. The female main character is a black woman and the male main character is white. And so, yeah, Deanna Gray, I think, writes. She's got some sapphic romance as well. She just writes incredible.
slow burn, longing, and the experiences of these characters. You feel them in your soul. So yeah, that one is really good and I think can help teach us a little bit more about sitting with this discomfort.
Faith Clarke (38:03)
Yeah, yeah.
Information in the show notes. will link that. Alicia, thank you so much for playing with this idea and for, I think as in a woman's body, just holding space for the discomfort we've held in our lives, in our bodies and how that hurt us, but also how that helped us grow. so thank you for being witness to that.
Alesia Galati (38:39)
Yes,
and thank you for having me.
Faith Clarke (38:41)
You are welcome.