Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I would like to invite you to take
a moment, a moment within your day,
to allow the idea of a symbiotic
exchange, the idea of this being
symbiosis, moving between one another,
exchanging between a person, a group.
The universe beyond.
I want to allow you to
ground into the idea
of this exchange being full of
gifts, taking a moment to breathe in
and breathe out,
understanding the idea of
symbiosis as an exchange.
like a bee to a flower,
each equally needing one another,
breathing in and breathing out.
And as they need one another, they also
are identified with their unique gifts.
Taking a moment within this minute
and allowing yourself to lean
into your gifts, your offerings,
breathing in and breathing out,
witnessing your abundance Your
grief, your gratitude for your gifts,
allowing the moment,
breathing in and breathing out.
Now, taking this opportunity to look
at all the gifts that you receive
with your exchanges, people, spirits,
mother earth, and the divine universe,
slowing down, breathing
in and breathing out.
in this moment, identifying
all the gifts that you are
receiving at this very second.
And as we do so, finding breath
and watching the symbiotic
exchange between yourself And
the external world we live in,
taking one final breath in
centering and grounding
and opening your eyes when
you feel called and ready.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression to finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Today I'm humbled and deeply honored.
Very excited to invite Mary Gold.
Mary Gold, how are you coming in today?
Really excited.
A lot of beautiful energy.
Tell me about it.
Yeah, I've got my hand on my heart.
And I have listened to quite a few of
your podcasts and everyone's always
like that meditation was perfect
for the story I want to share today.
And I am no different.
I am feeling the gifts of this
moment and myself and excited
to share some stories today.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
I'm very much in the same spot.
I'm excited to listen to
receive your gifts, to receive
your wisdom and insights.
And before we go any further, How are you
feeling about the idea of psychedelics
and where did you find the calling?
Where was the invitation
and how did it start?
It's such an interesting question for me
to hear psychedelics because I grew up in
what I now understand as purity culture.
With religious and family environment
and guardrails sometimes to I think
actually protect from some lineage
of, of addictions that were in, in my
parents lives or in their families.
And so when I hear psychedelics,
I'm like, is that what happened?
Is that what I did?
Because like the experience for me was
the calling of at first before having
a guided experience, it was something
that occurred a year after going through
birthing my first and only child.
And I happened to be with women for
an annual experience out in nature,
honoring ancestors breathing in the
fresh summer air in the Midwest of the
United States and plant medicine and
mushrooms were offered and invited.
And we had a lot of ceremony around
it, which I love about these women.
And I said, yes not in terms of like
peer pressure, but in terms of there
was a resonance and an intention about
stepping into my strength, I had wanted
to experience a shift after giving
birth where I anticipated when I was
pregnant, that every cell in my body
would change and I would become stronger.
And the opposite happened
after giving birth.
I felt a weakness, I felt a ruin.
I felt a stomach sick with adrenaline
because of the experience that
had some trauma for my child and
myself that both of us have moved
through and recovered from and are
doing beautifully after the fact.
So with that first very playful
experience, The intention
in that moment occurred.
I had this, like, laying on my
side in this soft, warm nature
space, supported by women who were
on their own journey, experience.
And when I emerged, Literally
having been in the position on my
side that I had labored in for 30
hours, I saw these beautiful colors,
like slot canyons, very warm.
And I, I had a guide who was my
mother in law, who appeared in that
experience with her hand on my hip.
And I'm like, look at,
look at, I'm giving birth.
Isn't this so beautiful?
And she was like, you're
not giving birth right now.
And I could witness my own body in
the experience of, Oh, you're right.
I'm not.
And I laughed.
And then like some of the plant medicine
moved its way through my system.
And I came really fully present
to the earth around me again.
And I walked down to the river
to join the other women who
had not been surrounding me.
They had moved in the process.
And I felt like I walked
down this grassy path.
A woman.
And I was like, wow, every cell
changed from that experience.
And my identity changed just with
different timing than I had expected.
What a beautiful story.
Thank you.
So that was my first experience.
And then if we move our way I'm an
entrepreneur and I like storytelling.
So sometimes I say fast forward.
So we don't have to like fast forward.
And yet.
Yeah.
Moving three years, three summers in
the future, which is just recently now.
I was looking forward to another
experience with these women and
because of life and, and death in, in
one of these families, we canceled.
And I happen to have been talking to a
client of mine who I said, I'm really
disappointed because I was looking
forward to a plant medicine experience.
And she happened to share the
name of a guide that, because her
husband had recently worked with
one and it was the same thing.
It was a yes again.
And so I felt the yes in my body
and I, I actually don't really
understand in myself the, the word
psychedelic, but I understand the
calling and the beauty and the,
Like the savoring is what I was looking
for in other experience like that.
I love all those describing words.
And I agree the plant
medicine, the medicine, right.
And it's so divine.
So you find the guide and having now
worked with you in integration and the
storyteller that you are, can you expound
on the importance of that relationship and
what you're learning about in the idea of.
If we use symbiosis, what are you
identifying with the safety of that?
Person.
And how did you experience that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want to talk to you like my sisters.
I want to slam my hand on the
table and say, Oh my gosh.
Yes.
Let's talk about that.
So the, the big day experience
itself was so gorgeous.
Tapping into people and essences
and healing that I had set as an
intention, but also things that were.
New and unexpected and, and
I was open and game for that.
And then the guide experience is
actually the thing that has really
been in my journaling and my dancing
throughout the week and in some of my
conversations that I'm choosing to have
in a very sacred way as a talk processor.
And I think one of the pieces that
I didn't expect at all going in was
to have conversations of consent.
Again, with purity culture, I
think the word consent for me was
really tied to if we're talking
about something related to sex.
And so, I didn't really understand
that consent is more than that.
And, I don't have a definition for it
now, so feel free to plug in that hole.
But, as far as working with the guide
went, the day of experience was one where
I was so seen And heard and witnessed.
And it was one of these pieces I was,
have been afraid about in growing and
my personal and professional life,
because when I'm seen and had been
seen and heard and witnessed in the
past, and I get this like shine and
like, I'm delighted in myself and I
think life is fun and, and like that
being said, I'm delighted at others
too, but I get afraid of that energy.
Yeah.
Because there have been times
where it's been violated.
It's turned into something I didn't want.
I know in conversation in speaking, in
preparation, and even in integration,
like, I'd been afraid of, if my shine
comes out, am I going to be seduced?
Like, and I'm in this, like, really sweet
family, monogamous marriage by choice.
And I wasn't sure how to reconcile
the gifts within that were knocking
at my door and saying, we're here,
we're here, we want to bubble up and
me being too afraid for it to happen.
Thank you for that.
And what did you notice as Your
shine started to percolate and your
gifts and just this wonderful energy
was being received by the guide.
How did you move through that?
Yeah, well, I think because the guide
and even an integration, there's
conversation about like airtight
consent, like we're in our own spaces.
And some of what came out in my
journey was I'd, I'd ask occasionally,
or maybe even regularly, like,
what are we doing here guide?
What are we doing?
And sometimes it's just not like
confused or scared, but just
like, what the heck's happening?
And the guide said to me several
times, some version of like,
Oh you're healing your spirit.
Oh, you're accessing your voice . Oh,
you're having like, this is your day
.
Like we're focused on you.
What's the emotion coming up
right now as you say that?
Gratitude, awe, delight, reverence.
I hold that space for so many people.
This is for you.
This is for you.
This is for you.
And it's like, wait, wait,
like me, like, really?
And in the integration session I had
a week ago, it was still the, Hey,
remember you can talk to me as a, as
an integration coach about things.
And because like, this is about you.
And I was like, wait.
It's still about me?
And part of somebody listening from
the outside might be like, well, duh,
this lady's like shining as a Leo in
like the bright summertime right now.
But I'm also the fourth child out of five.
Yeah.
So it's like, there, there wasn't
really that space for me to
shine and let it be about me.
So we had my son's fourth
birthday party recently.
And afterwards, you know,
it's a pretty high pace.
I'm only a couple of weeks past my
big day experience with the medicine.
And I had chosen with guidance to do
a combination of psilocybin and MDMA.
And week one afterwards was pretty
slow paced and intentional and retreat
like, and then the second week was
leading into my son's birthday and
hosting 30 people and having a new
house and interior designer, filling
our space with beautiful things that
I had got shopping with her for.
And at the end of it all, I came home
from the first time stepping out of
the home in like a week and I was
like, I'm tired and I am overwhelmed.
And there's like, where, when do I
get to have that quiet downtime again?
And I was not received like that
request wasn't received well.
It was like, what are you talking about?
We did all of these fun things.
Didn't you just go to dance church
over there and take three hours dancing
and doing the commute and coming back?
Like, here you go.
All the household duties that
you're used to are back and.
And it was the first time after my
big day experience where I started
feeling a brewing of like anger instead
of delight and playfulness and, and
like erotic, neat quality in my body.
It was like, Oh,
not great.
And so I, I, I stuck, I stayed in
the, in the curiosity for a while.
And I'm big on communication and
not closing doors and all that,
but I was like, wait a minute.
What I learned with the guide is like, I'm
, and the other person is them, and I'm, and
I don't have to take care of that other
person, and so I, I spent a couple of
mornings journaling on it, and the anger,
and what happened is, Was the voice that
occurred during the big day came back in
my journaling for the first time now two
weeks out Where it was like, oh, honey.
Oh, honey.
I see I see you feel this
way Yeah, that's not fun.
And like that's That's the voice that
occurred during the day, and I was so in
love with, well, I'm like, you're here.
Oh my gosh, you're here!
And I was like, so what the heck?
What's happening right now?
And she was like, well, you're really
mad because remember, you're Samantha,
and you felt overwhelmed, and you
want that person to see you and
recognize you, and I had this exchange
about the importance of the guide.
Just kind of like bring it full circle.
And I was like, oh, so
that was as important.
As Mother Earth opening up healing energy
and removing blockages of sickness from
my body and carrying lineage, lineages,
and all that beautiful stuff, I had
this reminder, which turned then into
a conversation with my significant
other of like, I want to be recognized.
Like, what I'm asking for is is intimacy.
So we are using the word intimacy
in an entirely new way and I'm able
to understand like if I'm running
and leaving the house to go to dance
church or talk to girlfriends, I'm
seeking intimacy and I'm running
away from not being seen and heard.
And so we're like in conversation
with my partner, we're
like, well, isn't that cool?
Isn't that cool that we know that
and we can have that conversation
and we're exploring that.
And we have the net, the safety
net of you as an integration coach
that we can both come and speak to.
It's beautiful.
That's remarkable.
What a great insight.
And I'm so humbled by the way
you just navigated through all
those emotions and didn't run
away from them at the same time.
Well, I tell you what I've.
Fricking refuse.
Mm-Hmm.
. Yeah.
I fricking I I don't
know how your podcast is.
E for explicit.
I fucking refuse.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
I'm I just from a former life.
We're good . We're good.
. Okay.
Okay.
I refuse to squash feelings, emotions.
Shine, I just fucking refuse it now.
What's alive in your body
right now as you're saying it?
What's your body doing as you're
saying that with so much animation?
I know.
What is it?
I can picture like a staff in the ground.
Like I will not betray me.
I love it.
That's vibrant.
That's vital.
Yeah.
And you're doing it in a way of open
communication and compassion, though,
even in the way you're articulating it
with your significant other and the people
that you interface with on a daily basis,
Mary Golda, I'm hearing this idea that
you're grounded in compassion for not
only them, but yourself in that exchange.
Oh, for sure.
I mean, I think some of the, the, the
gifts I'm offering the world, I'm in the
parenting world and supporting parents
and coaching, and I've had this stand.
Since before I had my own kid
for 20 years as a professional,
I'm like, every kid has gifts.
If you understand them,
you will draw them out.
Yeah.
And so I can understand where other
people are coming from and I can
see it and hear it before maybe they
see it and hear it, which is fine.
And more whole now where
I'm like, and how about me?
Do I see and hear me?
And Oh, by the way, Oh, by the
way, I was driving the other day.
I'm like, Oh, is that why one of my
tagline is like, every kid has gifts.
You just need to learn
how to draw them out.
Oh, I have gifts.
Cool.
Cool.
I have gifts too.
How does it feel to say that out loud?
Yeah, good and easy because, you
know, with integration coaching, I
feel like I can, I'm not masking.
You're not masking anymore.
Well, you're, you're really
calibrating it and rediscovering
it in such a beautiful way.
Yeah, thank you.
I mean, part of me is a little bit
worried, like, what's gonna happen in
the winter, right, if you get, like,
the dark and the it's not this vibrant.
So I, I, I just want to acknowledge,
like, the full picture of Well, that I
take a breath of fresh air in, because
you are acknowledging, even two weeks
out, and what's on the horizon with
seasonal This, this isn't a magic pill,
and I really am endorsing your insight
about, you know, How to hold it with
reverence and respect, but also loosely
and knowing that the medicines in you,
but there's work to be done with it.
Yeah.
You lead me to wonder what will you
identify or how will you identify
when it's time to do it again or
when the calling approaches because
you have such a beautiful intuition.
What does that look like
for you, do you think?
Yeah, I'm already trusting the
intuition and just witnessing being
newer on the plant medicine experience.
Journey, path.
I'm used to planning a few
quarters out in my life.
So I'm like, okay, I'd like to do this
immunotherapy thing and these probiotics.
And then we're looking at conception
and then we're looking at this.
So if we do, there might be this quarter
might work or maybe that quarter, if
this doesn't, you know, blah, blah, blah.
And all of that being said I'm
holding it loosely and we'll see.
It's I'm, I'm really practiced
at carving out retreat time.
If I'm doing a liver cleanse or
intermittent fasting or whatever.
So it's like, well, carve off four days.
Okay.
Got it.
There's a lot of days we cover.
Four days.
Summertime, birthdays, holidays.
I don't just go, go, go, go, go.
So it's like doing a sugar cleanse.
Like, yeah, slow, slow the fuck down.
Cause you're going to
get hit for two days.
And then as there's die off.
So I feel like it will
show itself and I have.
And understanding that for me, it's
really important to communicate
about with my partner about it.
And so it's been communicated,
like I'm watching and noticing.
And right after the big day,
I was enchanted for what?
48 hours.
Right.
So, so I really listened to a bunch of
these integration podcasts actually.
Cause I'm like, when do you do it again?
And everyone's like
salivating and I get it.
Yeah.
Right.
the anger came up and I wasn't like Again,
just kind of witnessing thinking about
addiction cycles in my family's history.
I'm like, oh Anger didn't lead me to
like, oh, I should do it again and I
need to escape and blah blah It's just
like it'll it'll tell me that I have
so much support You do you truly do
and the intuition that i'm seeing in
you and just the articulation is both
Very concrete sequential like okay.
I'm gonna plan it and what I really
embracing in this moment Is your idea
of, hey, you do have to plan it and
see if it fits and carve out time.
And it's not something that you shoot
from the hip with because there is
a lot of appropriate intentionality.
And another thing I would love
you to speak upon is you're doing
so many other things that are.
interfacing and interwoven
within the plant medicine.
So the liver cleanses, the juice
cleanses, the probiotics, the
activities, the dancing, the
embodiment of your integration
sounds like it's very holistic.
Is that accurate?
Yeah, I think so.
One of my sisters said if they ever
have something weird happen with
their health, the first person they're
going to talk to is me because I do,
I've done so many things and part
of the plant medicine intention was
like, can you show me something so
I don't have to do all these things.
Like I'd been navigating autoimmunity and
weakness in my body and adrenal fatigue.
So, you know, some of it is I'm actually
looking forward to, like, I know I have
this habit about carving out time and
taking good care of my body and also
looking forward to, I have this belief
and this is, I think what led me, this
was part of my pre work conversation.
And what led me to plant medicine is
I have this deep belief that we have
so much radiance and the earth feeds
us and spirit feeds us and there's
like top to bottom and inside out.
And so, if too much socializing is
draining me or if gluten impacts my
whatever negatively or, If the Wi Fi
and the EMFs are bothering me and I'm
really sensitive to it, I just have this
belief that I, I, I shouldn't have to
live so carefully and protected, that
there's more inner strength that I, I
had not had prior to this experience.
I love everything about that.
What's alive in you in this moment,
as you're saying that the radiance,
the grounding, and the, it sounds
like you don't have to do so much that
it's allowing yourself to just be.
Yeah.
Well, I'd like that.
I think I'll know that over time.
Right.
I tried to not take any probiotics after
taking them regularly for three years
for a functional med person and you know,
all this stool samples and all that.
Sure.
And it was okay the first week
and the week two, I'm like, I got
to take some probiotics again.
So I'm like, okay, it's not a magic pill.
Right.
It isn't, but it's also recognizing all
the information comes in so many different
waves and so many different layers.
What do you make of that?
Just the levels and the different ways
it showcases in your everyday life.
How is it being presented
to you in this moment?
I'm game for it.
Nice.
It's fine.
You see it, you witness it, you greet it.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, so much delight and
play has unfolded from this.
And I'm, I'm seeing that mirrored back
to me where people I talk to regularly
for check ins and accountability, they're
like, Oh, I see you feel so grounded
or, Oh, your smile is so delightful.
I'm like, I know, isn't that fun?
It's radiant.
It's radiant.
Marigold, what are you doing to
be gentle with yourself in this
moment and throughout the days?
Hmm.
I'm not rushing to fix anything.
I'm not chasing anything.
And when I am journaling at the
times where I'm feeling inspired
to do so, I am journaling slowly.
I am not following the rule of put
my pen on the paper and don't take
it off until three pages is filled.
I'm pausing and I'm taking a long
time and it's not evenly spaced.
And it's just really delightful.
And you're fucking smiling,
which I deeply appreciate.
I am smiling.
It's addictive.
Yeah, thank you.
I'm humbled.
I appreciate you.
I'm so grateful.
Thank you.
Mutual.
Igualmente.