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I'm Brian Bashore, Professional walleye angler and owner of The Walleye Guys Guide service. I am here to reel you in with captivating stories, expert tips, and interviews with some of the biggest names in the fishing community. So, sit back, relax, and let the drag scream!
Brian Bashore (00:01.39)
Hey folks, thanks for tuning into that episode of Real Talk Fishing with No Limits. Today we're talking to Skeeter, Yamaha, Berkeley, Hummingbird. I probably missed a 10 other sponsors of Mr. Mark Courts over here. How's it going, Mark? How's the fishing in your neck of the woods?
Mark Courts (00:17.123)
It's good. I've actually been fishing quite a bit and I've been traveling. So it's been good. was on Lake Okoboji last week and that was really good. Kind of fun to get down there down to the plant and Spirit Lake and hang out with the guys. We had the Shields guys down there. Found a bunch of cool things. So it's gonna be a lot of fun. And then the week before that I was up on Mille Lacs and the fishing's, it's good. It's tough.
Brian Bashore (00:34.702)
all that.
Mark Courts (00:43.569)
But it's tough for a good reason that there's a lot of bait in the system. But the fish are really super healthy. There's a lot of fish in the system. The perch are giant. Yeah, no, the system's looking really good. Smallmouth bass are good. The walleyes are good. So no, the lax is actually coming back really, really well.
Brian Bashore (00:58.178)
Yeah.
Yeah, I heard it was fishing a little tough, but like you said, just cause they have so much to eat, but the fish are everywhere and they're, big and they're healthy.
Mark Courts (01:05.24)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, you know, and the water is super clear, so they're super spooky, so you got to make long casts to them. no, all in all, it's good. And then the week before that, I was out in South Dakota, in that Northeast South Dakota. That was a lot of fun. So yeah, just been traveling. It's been good. Been a busy June.
Brian Bashore (01:27.904)
Yeah, it is. It, it is. I've been busy guiding and it's just, fishing has been pretty good most everywhere. Now we're getting some kind of some funky weather mixing in and plenty of rain. Well-needed probably. I think you guys are getting some good rain over there as well. but you've been on the road. I was touched on this stuff since we went there. I, yeah, you had the Schills guys at the Berkeley factory or the Peter Fischen plant the other day. I think you were out probably doing some of the Hummybird pro stuff. it's just, let's touch on that. I don't think.
A lot of people probably know what goes on. They see Mark Kortz fishing. They see him in the boat. They see him go into tournaments. They don't understand how much work not just leads up to the tournament as practice, but off season or the weekends, you know.
Mark Courts (02:08.971)
It's not it's honestly it's nonstop for me. You know, I'm lucky enough to have some great sponsors that I work with and and they rely on me a lot. So it's just a lot of traveling. You know, we were releasing some new baits to media in South Dakota there that pure fish is coming out with. got four new baits coming out here. I think you're actually there. We're able to talk about them. We've got a new casting bait.
It's a unique bait. It's a combination of a rattle bait and a glide bait. That bait's been really good. We've got a couple new sizes in the finisher coming out. We've got the Roller Jig, which is super exciting. That's a casting jig with a turning hook. It's great way to deliver 4-inch go. We had great success on that.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun. We've got the shallow money badger, which I fished down on the cross quite a bit. that's super, yeah, no, that thing is really good. I'm excited about that for a lot of different, you know, purposes, you know, cast and shallow, up in timber. It's got a good bill on it that deflects really well. and it fishes just really nice. So five sizes and that, and yeah, things are good. It's just, you know, it's that time of year where.
Brian Bashore (03:11.394)
Yeah, think that thing's money.
Yeah, it is.
Brian Bashore (03:26.049)
Yep.
Mark Courts (03:35.089)
You know, the weather finally got right here and now all of a we're back in sweatshirts today. But yeah, we've got plenty of rain. The lakes are looking really good. You know, I think it took a little bit to get to that summer pattern for these fish. Even when I was on the lax a couple of weeks ago, we were still catching fish in six to 10 foot of water. You could go find some fish out in the deeper water, but a lot of those fish were up shallow and. And then we did the shields training and now we're back.
actually home for a week and then we're on the road and off to the next NWT in Michigan.
Brian Bashore (04:11.992)
Yeah, the shields training that is those that store we've done it at St. Croix. I wasn't there, but same deal. Bunch of them came in, took the factory tour and, and, they were just like, that's it. You know, they unloaded lot of their other rods and went, we're just, we're going to run these now, you know, and I'm sure they're, you know, know, shields, you've been to them, the shields fishing university out here at chain blended Cedar shores. And in April, I'm not aware of any other box store doing anything like that. I these guys are in our boats, hands on educated.
Mark Courts (04:16.943)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (04:20.517)
Yep.
Mark Courts (04:25.958)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (04:38.307)
No, that's, you know, they do 50, I think 52 universities, across all the platforms, whether we talk about hiking and, camping and, and footwear and cooking and all those things. So, you know, it's a, I actually had a guy up from Florida and I said, you got to stop into the shield store in Eden Prairie. And I said, you're just going to be amazed on how nice those stores are.
How many times you get asked, do you have any questions or you need us to find anything? Are you looking for something specific? And that's the unique thing about Shields. It's employee owned and they're just a great, great company. as a customer going in there, you actually feel like they know what they're talking about because they do, because they take so much time to train their associates.
Brian Bashore (05:29.186)
They do, they invest in their people. And I have a lot of friends that have worked there and they've been there for 20 plus years. Once they started, they've, none of them ever left and it's an ESOP. So it's employee owned their, their stocks doing well. you know, and they told me 20 years ago, they're getting paid by them. Like, but he's like, but I get a commission on this, you know, or this now they're in management. So he's like, now I get the entire floor, you know, or just hunting or archery or fishing and, know, they moved up. I'm like, you're, you're doing pretty well. A couple of them met their wives there and what have you. It's just, and they, they ain't going nowhere.
Mark Courts (05:34.202)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (05:45.594)
Yep.
Mark Courts (05:49.167)
Yep.
Mark Courts (05:56.156)
Yeah? Nope.
Brian Bashore (05:58.424)
Theoretically, think they're almost 50 and they could retire, but you know, they're not gonna. They love it and yeah.
Mark Courts (06:01.893)
Yeah, they're expanding. I mean, they're expanding two stores every year. so it's a super, super fun, you know, and the people are passionate about the sport. So that's the fun part about it. Being with those people that actually understand and know what they're talking about and, know, get what you're trying to relate to.
Brian Bashore (06:20.258)
Yeah. If you fish a wall, our basketball here in South Dakota, you're, you're going to see those guys because they're in the tournament, you know, they're fishing it. So I was in there yesterday actually getting a couple of things. And he's like, here it is. Here it is. Here it is. And then they're just chit chatting about some other things. I'm like, all right, it's they know what they're talking about. If you ask them and they ask, you know, you sometimes you get people are like bothered by people asking them for help, but trust me, if you are looking for something or you're on the fence, just ask.
Mark Courts (06:25.645)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Brian Bashore (06:46.318)
You know, any one of those cell staff guys, they know what they're talking about and they're going to show you. and I have both been to the Shields, you and I've taken them out and put their St. Corey in the rods and the seven reels in their hands. You had them in your boat going through the bird stuff, you know, and they're using all the Berkeley baits. mean, and they do that, you know, they're, they're smart by they do it regional. And then they have like the walleye guys also were going to come to the upper Midwest stuff. They do that down in Texas and it's all, you know, bass centric type things. And some of the bass pros go down there. It's just.
Mark Courts (06:58.16)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (07:15.852)
It's just so smart. It's a big investment, big costs obviously for Shields to do it, but I mean, it's clearly it's paying dividends.
Mark Courts (07:19.857)
Yeah, yeah, and I don't know how long I've been doing it honestly. I can't even look back. mean, I'm guessing it's pushing 18 to 20 years that I've been doing at Shields University out there in Chamberlain. So yeah, I mean, they've been doing it a long time. And like you said, it's definitely paid dividends and they continue to grow it.
Brian Bashore (07:41.326)
They have the, uh, since I'm always there for the month and guiding and then the following week they've had the camping university there and they're out there in their Kelty. Well, they're out, they take them out past kind of where the boat ramp is and that field. And it doesn't matter what the weather is, which is good. it's a pretty good chance, it's to be cold anyway, but they're sleeping in it overnight. So I'm going out in the morning. can see them all crawling out of their tents, running to the resort to go to the bathroom or whatever. But I'm like, I guess you really, tested the gear in that 30 or 28 degree night. So.
Mark Courts (07:54.054)
Yep.
Mark Courts (07:59.759)
Yup.
Mark Courts (08:09.903)
Yeah, and that's exactly what they want to do. mean, whether it's on the water, shooting, hiking, camping, they want them to know what the product actually is and what it does.
Brian Bashore (08:16.557)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (08:21.706)
And so you had them down there at the pure fishing plant. I'm sure Sprangler was there. You guys are playing with all the new baits. I imagine here in a couple of weeks we're going to get to see all these that I cast.
Mark Courts (08:30.327)
Yeah, actually Shields are, Pier Fishing is not going to ICAST. They chose not to go to ICAST, but yeah, you're going to see them. We had a bunch of writers out in South Dakota there. And so you're going to see a lot of articles coming out on them and we'll obviously all release them here in the coming weeks. So you'll, sure you'll see a bunch of them in Michigan too.
Brian Bashore (08:35.157)
That's right. I did read that.
Brian Bashore (08:53.304)
That's their big media blitz. I'm sure that same week, week as ICAST, instead of spending literally the hundreds of thousands of dollars for their booth and investment time, we're just going to go ahead and do a digital thing. Cause really those guys that big, I know like the Shields guys would stay an extra day or two, you know, to get the buyers to actually go have their good buyers meetings, you know, cause it's kind of turned into a media show.
Mark Courts (08:55.193)
Yep. Yep.
Mark Courts (09:00.475)
Correct.
Mark Courts (09:11.673)
Yep. And that's the one thing, you know, we've all talked about it now is that the industry's changed. All these buyers have seen the products long before ICAST and ICAST just kind of turned into a handshake meet and greet, which it's still fun. mean, it's still, you meet a lot of people, you get to see a lot of people that you only see once a year. So it is well worth somebody's time to go to ICAST.
It's just one of those things that is a huge cost investment. And a lot of these companies already figured they got that stuff done and they can do other things, you know, like outdoor media events where you're going to get a lot more press out of it than you can stand in a convention hall just talking about it. Now you can actually fish a bait and get a fish caught on camera and, and, know, get the, get it in the renter's hands so they understand what they're talking about too.
Brian Bashore (10:01.358)
Yeah, I haven't been there for a couple of years, but I, I'm going to go this year. Um, I'm sure like you as part of our contracts and some of these things to attend, whether it's the classic or ICAST or a major sports show and that we don't have a whole lot here in two falls except for the ice Institute. So, but it's just a great time to reconnect with those people and get FaceTime, spend some time in that booth, see what's upcoming. Um, not everybody is ahead of the game. I Cory is usually two or three years ahead of the game, but it's just.
Mark Courts (10:09.967)
Yep. Yep.
Mark Courts (10:17.883)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (10:28.364)
It's a one-stop shop. Get in, get a whole bunch of media stuff done, get the cuts, you know, and then just this business is all about relationships. And when you get those dinners and after hours, cocktail parties, whatever it is, that's it. So if you're up in Cumberland, Angler, I invested in this, you invest in yourself. It'll go a long ways, you know, get the credentials, get in. It's not the great time. I've told it to a bunch of people to be running around handing out your card, trying to ask for free stuff for this or that.
Mark Courts (10:37.457)
Absolutely.
Mark Courts (10:41.209)
Yep, for sure.
Mark Courts (10:55.781)
Not at all.
Brian Bashore (10:56.43)
But just, just start meeting those people and put a little FaceTime in and then follow that up a year and another year. And then, you know, a few years down the road, they're going to finally remember who you are. And then you'll have your, your place to, make your ask outside of there. get a few years ago, it got kind of bad. was at the high school bass and it was loaded with people. like, man, these guys are getting kid pounded, you know, for, whatever. Yeah. It's, it's a tough, tough gig. got to get a little frustrated with it, but I mean, they're.
Mark Courts (10:59.544)
Absolutely.
Mark Courts (11:05.903)
Yeah. Yep.
Mark Courts (11:11.129)
Yes, correct.
Mark Courts (11:19.117)
Non-stop.
Brian Bashore (11:25.282)
Most of them are so good. just, trying to be as friendly and helpful as possible and handing out stuff.
Mark Courts (11:30.513)
Yeah, and they've got a lot of other people in the booths, you know, to run that traffic. But yeah, no, it's really good. The Classic is really good. Difference between Classic and there is you got to actually retail customers at the Classic. And that's one of the things that's still a great show. Yeah, there's a lot of specials and deals and stuff like that at the Classic, but it's still, I mean, there's a lot of consumers that are coming from around the country just to witness a Bassmaster Classic, number one, but then to look at all the new products. And a lot of companies are
Brian Bashore (11:33.4)
Yep.
Mark Courts (11:59.781)
choosing to release new products are classic too.
Brian Bashore (12:01.922)
Yep. Yeah. I think that timing is great, right? March, you know, good spring. And like you said, it's that's it. You can get some hellacious deals at the classic man. They're giving some deals and you know, it's cheaper to sell that stuff than to ship it back for the most part. So.
Mark Courts (12:05.743)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (12:15.951)
And there's better times to be in Orlando than, you know, mid June, July.
Brian Bashore (12:19.128)
yeah. Then July. Yeah, that is always a hot, sweaty kind of, kind of a mess, you know, but, in and out in a couple of days, but still a good time. You've been doing this a long time, not to age you, Mark, but you've been, you've been on all sorts of, I mean, this started what? RCL, PWT? I don't even remember which one came first.
Mark Courts (12:26.213)
Yeah, but it's still fun.
Yep.
Mark Courts (12:39.481)
No, actually before that, NAWA. So I started NAWA days back in 1998. NAWA was a Cabela's Run circuit and that lasted two years. And then I went on to the PWT and FLW, RCL FLW. After that, and actually fished both circuits at the same time. And so a lot of traveling, but it was all good.
Brian Bashore (12:42.786)
Nah, yeah, I don't see.
Mark Courts (13:05.808)
And then when that went away, I've been fishing the NWT ever since. So yeah, this is year 27 for me, between Bass and Walleye. I fished the champions tour when the season's actually aligned and I can do that. This year they were a little off, but yeah, all in all, all in all, I can't complain. It's been a good career and I'm going to keep rolling as long as I can here.
Brian Bashore (13:30.284)
You got a handful of wins. got, you got at least one AOI title in the NW, right?
Mark Courts (13:36.305)
Yep. AOI title, a championship win in the PWT and, uh, I don't know, three, three wins, I think. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (13:39.011)
end.
Brian Bashore (13:46.498)
They don't come easy, man. So if you get one or two underneath the belt, is good. That's the start of a long career, which you have had a very long and illustrious and successful career.
Mark Courts (13:48.773)
Yo.
Mark Courts (13:57.507)
Yeah, it's been fun. I, and I don't regret what I do. I mean, I love my job. I love the travel aspect of it. I get to meet a lot of cool people and, yeah. You know, I mean between that and when I had my charter boat, was, it's just a lot of fun just to teach people about the sport of fishing and get people outdoors, you know, and before I did that, I managed to hunt club in Wisconsin. I've lived on the King ranch, train dogs down there. I lived up in Canada and train dogs up there. So.
Yeah, it's either been hunting or fishing for me and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Brian Bashore (14:30.318)
Yeah, I get that all, you know, as a guy to hear, y'all you're living a dream. I'm like, yeah, you know, you're doing what you love and you're passionate about, but I always tell them I'm not retiring anytime soon. You know, you know, and then we just had Chad on here and the same thing. I'm like, this is the retirement plan. I'm like, we, we ain't getting rich, but we're sure having a hell of a fun time doing it. that.
Mark Courts (14:39.747)
No, that's fact.
Mark Courts (14:48.185)
Yep. And I actually go out and work for Chad in the fall, guiding out there. yeah, no, it's, mean, I've just met some great people and have some great relationships and it's been a lot of fun just to continue, you know, whether it's hunting and fishing. I mean, the fall is related around fishing a lot of times with either sponsors or friends from fishing. So it all goes hand in hand.
Brian Bashore (15:11.49)
Yeah, when you can come out South Dakota and shoot a few roosters and go catch a few walleyes, it's, pretty good day.
Mark Courts (15:16.079)
Yeah, unfortunately I don't get a walleye fish when I'm out there. I've been out there, the opportunities and we're just always busy, know, shooting birds and cleaning birds. and so, yeah, no, it's, I'm going to get out there though this summer. AFCO is doing a big deal out there in Lake Hawaii. They're doing that big shootout, out of a caska. So we're looking forward to getting out there and the fish is phenomenal. I just.
Brian Bashore (15:19.458)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (15:40.376)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (15:41.797)
Bo Schilling actually was just texting Bo here just a second ago. They had a great day on the river. Fishing looks like it's really good. They're catching a lot of fish. yeah, no, the Missouri River, mean, honestly, all the systems that we've fished this year have been healthy. I mean, I think lacrosse, I mean, I think that blew a lot of people's minds away that how many fish were in that system. And from little fish to big fish, you know, obviously there was a lot of differences there with.
whether you locked up or locked down and slot limits and things like that, that kind of make it miserable. But all in all, it was a fishery that I had never been to, mine is bass fishing. And I was certainly impressed. Yeah, there's tons of bass and then the good ones, but well, just a lot of walleyes. mean, you know, I made the decision to go up both days and had short days both days due to locks issues and things like that. But all in all, was, I enjoyed it down there.
Brian Bashore (16:20.072)
There was a lot of mass. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (16:36.942)
Yeah, anytime I miss a river, never disappoints. And it throws the curve balls and it always surprised you with the, you know, how big of bags. And until I went down into nine, just cause I had so much more confidence and that place has a lot of big fish, but really didn't get those bigger fish and, you know, and eight until the second day of tournament when I was like, there's no reason to go to nine cause I blew it. So let me stay here. And all of sudden you're catching 24, 22. I'm like, well, what, where the hell are these in practice? But it didn't give these spots, you know, enough time. So.
Mark Courts (16:40.261)
No.
Mark Courts (16:51.526)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (17:03.334)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (17:06.789)
Well, I think a lot of it had to do with, I mean, there was, there was some stuff going on there where the water was dumping out of those back areas. And so those fish were funneling down in the river and they got there, you know, those last couple of days of practice, those better fish, mean, seven was just stupid because there wasn't a lot of people up there and there was a lot of big fish up there also. So, you know, when I ran up there day one, we got to the locks, the lock was closed. took a little bit to get it open. we got up there and it got, but.
two and a half, three hours of fishing, but I caught my two overs real quick and caught a couple slots and then came back down and filled out my limits. So day two, I was looking forward to it and then we got up there and there was a barge and took a little bit and I missed the first bar lock up and then I got the second one and got up there and caught one over pretty quick and then barge was coming down and that lock master just didn't have time for us. So I knew I had to get down and came back down.
Brian Bashore (18:04.942)
Yeah, that, that whole block thing sucks. Nine was pretty good. A lot of those weren't making it through eight. Um, and we had one day one, I had to wait until stop at a spot and you know, caught a small one, threw it back, which ended up being a great spot. Minky and Heiser got some big ones off there. Um, so I fished it on the, on the second day. And you know, you can only keep over 27s of nine and I had a 25 and I had almost a 26, but Landsteiner was down with me he got his 29 and you know, you're like, that was great fish if I was in the.
Mark Courts (18:14.735)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (18:34.86)
in the other pool, but that's the gamble you take. And if you come home with two overs out of nine, you're sitting pretty pretty good shape. So, Yup. And then it had a really great underbite real fast, but for whatever reason, that didn't seem to work out very well. And I guess gave it one pass. It was actually a trolling pass. But Dave did fix it the second day when he went down there, because he couldn't get the big fish to go. But those other fish, when he's like, he's like, that spot, he's like, that was crazy. He's like, that was so fun.
Mark Courts (18:37.937)
100 %
Yeah, no, there's no doubt. You're going to be just fine if you get a few overs.
Brian Bashore (19:03.694)
I wish I had more time to, you know, just kind of didn't kind of keep slowly upgrading, but it was those, you know, 17 to 19 inches. And you could just throw your crank back and your spinner on troll and hold it and just wham, wham, you know, that's when it's fun. He was like, he had a Drake's John heard was with him as Coangler. And he said, man, he goes, yeah, we sucked day two. It didn't work out. You know, I think still finished in 12th, but he's like, it was fun. We caught him. We got him. And it was fun, man. So what, so we got, you got here on coming up next.
Mark Courts (19:14.097)
That's when it's fun.
Mark Courts (19:26.799)
Yeah. No, for sure.
Mark Courts (19:33.424)
Yeah!
Brian Bashore (19:33.59)
Right here on then done Kirk. What? How you feeling about here on we're going to big great lake, clean water. I don't know.
Mark Courts (19:41.455)
Yeah, no, it can be a good fishery. mean, I won a PWT championship on that system. I mean, obviously it was down in Saginaw Bay, a little bit different time of year. And I don't know why we don't go target that system when they are down in that lower Bay. it's, mean, Bay City is an awesome town. I've spent a lot of time there in my career, basically because I met my wife there and she's from there originally.
Uh, but yeah, that's when the fisheries good. mean, you know, there's so much structure down there and shoreline structure and weeds and, different things that it just, it sucks when we have to go up to the north end of that system and stop in that big water. I mean, you know, with no blow days built in, I mean, we just see what we just seen what happened to the Michigan Walleye trail. had two days of blow days and they canceled the tournament. So
Brian Bashore (20:32.494)
It's a tough one.
Mark Courts (20:39.013)
that we could be going out there for a long ways and get two blow days, which would absolutely suck. And that can happen in the next two tournaments. And that's something they got to think about. mean, that's just, mean, to have that big a tournament going to that location and not have a blow day built in is absolutely ridiculous, in my opinion.
Brian Bashore (20:56.654)
Yeah, it's a, that's, I'm not going. And that's one of the reasons is that is not a fun, enjoyable practice body of water to be honest. does not take a 10 mile an hour wind to make that thing just uncomfortable. Uh, Saginaw, we were there in 2018 Saginaw baby went out of that minus a 45 minute no wake thing. It was, it was all right. mean, granted, think Kinger wanted, you know, traveling way up there, but you're right.
Mark Courts (21:09.125)
Absolutely brutal. I mean it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mark Courts (21:20.785)
And you can, yeah, you can, I mean, you can fish in, I mean, you can fish in the river too. mean, the river is phenomenal fishing. So that's, that has nothing to do with it. I mean, like that, that system, you know, granted it is a long row wake zone getting out of there, but there's other launches closer to the ball too. yeah, veterans park up there. It's, it's part of it. And the fishery was good. I mean, Kinger and those guys did run all the way up, but you don't have to. I mean, there was good fish down in the lower Bay too.
Brian Bashore (21:25.07)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (21:42.914)
Yeah, was.
Brian Bashore (21:48.898)
Yeah, it was, I had a, had a ball there. Yep. Yep. Stay in the river.
Mark Courts (21:50.383)
And the nice thing is you got that option, right? If it's rough, you won't have to. up where we're going this week. mean, it's go or stay home. mean, exactly.
Brian Bashore (22:00.462)
Yeah, it's a long run South to get down out of it. it's, it's, uh, you know, it's one thing when you start in it, you can stay there, but if you've got to go 70, 80 miles, no thanks.
Mark Courts (22:08.441)
And I talked, yeah, and I talked to some of the guys that were there at that Michigan Walleye trail and they said the fishing was good, but it's primarily down in the bay. So it'll be interesting to see, you know, this middle warm weather that they've had, if those fish have transitioned finally out to that upper part of the bay or lake, and maybe they'll be closer to where they were, you know, we won't have to run as far as we did last year.
Brian Bashore (22:34.702)
Then you have, but you can go North too. You have superior, right? can go up to the Sue. mean, you can go anywhere you can get. It's a massive wide open. How much gas do you want to spend type system?
Mark Courts (22:37.039)
Correct. You're physical. Yep.
Mark Courts (22:45.315)
and how much Mother Nature will allow you to run.
Brian Bashore (22:48.16)
Right, which is not in your favor for the most part on that system.
Mark Courts (22:49.809)
No. No, the next two are going to be interesting. There's no doubt about it. mean, like whether I mean how many boats we have is going to be one thing and how far we got to run and how rough it's going to be could be another thing. So is what it is. We're going to just go put our heads down and go fishing. You know, that's one thing about that system. They're up in Alpina. There's not a lot of big fish. I mean,
Brian Bashore (22:55.01)
They're just.
Mark Courts (23:17.713)
A big fish right now is like six pounds. mean, if you get a six pounder, you're doing really good. So yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, a lot of that three to five pound stuff is what you're going to look for for the tournament. um, yeah. I mean, last year when we were there for the championship, there was fish in the weeds. was fish out deep. Um, so there was, it really spread the field out. So we'll see what happens. I mean, it should be interesting no matter what. We're going to spend the whole in El Pino, Michigan.
Brian Bashore (23:22.154)
at three to five pounds.
Brian Bashore (23:43.148)
and Dunkirk.
Right, then you're up to Dunkirk and Canada is off limits. I mean, do it.
Mark Courts (23:50.337)
And it's New York waters only. mean, which is something unheard of when we've gone there. mean, I get, you know, the border thing, that's fine, whatever, but still there's a lot of good water to the, to the West. When we were there for that championship three years ago or whatever it was that John won, I was actually running to Pennsylvania, which wasn't a long run. was 30 miles. So it wasn't.
Brian Bashore (23:55.886)
All right.
Mark Courts (24:17.137)
a super long run, guys did actually run to Ohio too. yeah, it's, mean, being confined to that, I mean, going all the way out there and then being confined to that small of an area is going to make it interesting.
Brian Bashore (24:32.258)
Yeah, that's a pretty small area actually, isn't it? New York.
Mark Courts (24:34.417)
It's really not that big. I mean you probably got 20 miles 25 miles down to that Pennsylvania line, maybe a little less And then I guess you could run all the way up to Whatever that is to the east. But yeah, no, I mean, it's a it's not a giant fishery I mean, it really isn't if there's not a lot of structure in that stretch So it's a lot of basin fishing You know The last time we were there I was running dipsies and copper wire
Brian Bashore (24:55.373)
Right.
Mark Courts (25:04.433)
Trolling, guys did catch them forward facing sonar. But yeah, there's a good trolling bite, you know, typically out there and you can go through numbers and kind of just upgrade throughout the day. it's super, I mean, it's it's 80 to 100 foot most of that. You know, I was most of the fish I was targeting were 60 foot down, 50 to 60 foot down. So I was, you know, running dipsies and 200 coppers. And that's where I was targeting those fish. So.
Brian Bashore (25:15.502)
It's deep though, right? You're fishing deep.
Brian Bashore (25:32.814)
So for those of listening, Dunkirk, New York, that's Lake Erie. This is the far Eastern part of the basin, basically. And then New York's got a a little slice of that pie. Especially when you take off Canada and then Mark says it's a little system and it is when you, when you break it down and we've kind of are all about, Hey, let's hit some boundaries. But now you created the smallest boundary possible.
Mark Courts (25:43.313)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (25:56.529)
Well, a hundred percent. mean, you know, I mean, like when we go to, you know, Erie in the spring, yeah, we can fish Ohio and you can fish Michigan. Well, that's, that's a lot of water. mean, that's all the way up to Detroit and you know, all the way. I mean, you can go to Cleveland. mean, you know, and you ran 50 miles. So, but when you can find us all the, you know, roughly, I think Buffalo might be maybe 30 miles from, I mean, by water 40 miles maybe from.
Brian Bashore (26:01.038)
All right.
Brian Bashore (26:05.902)
That's Steadle Water.
Mark Courts (26:26.885)
Dunkirk. yeah, no, mean, you know, and any Eerie is not the area it used to be. I mean, we're still going to catch nice fish, but a six pound average grade of fish is going to be really good that time of year. you might find a few bigger ones obviously mixed in, but I think for the most part that you're looking at that six pound fish.
Brian Bashore (26:47.47)
I think your average in was like 20, 22 pounds when that championship was there. It was fall or later, but.
Mark Courts (26:52.719)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was October bike Yeah, but I'm just looking at like the rest of the tournaments on here right now That's kind of the averages at 30, you know that 30 few good ones mixed in
Brian Bashore (26:56.95)
October, so... Alright.
Brian Bashore (27:04.151)
That's good.
Brian Bashore (27:07.842)
Yeah. I know the few guys that, know, that it's a long drive for literally 98 % of the field. but they said there's a, caught a ton of fish. mean, there's this it's eerie. There's an absolute ton of fish.
Mark Courts (27:17.105)
Yeah. Oh, it was, I mean, it was phenomenal. mean, I honestly trolling, I had never got so many hooks in my hands just because you're handling three and four pounders, you know, and you're trying to go through fish. So you're just hand grabbing them and literally I'm getting stuck about every fourth fish because they're flopping around and all excited. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (27:33.774)
You get, you're getting exhausted from reeling them in that deep too. mean, that's your cranking it up. This isn't like hooking a set and grab the net. It's yeah. got a couple of minutes. Right. Nope.
Mark Courts (27:43.557)
yeah and you want to take your time so you can release them too. I mean that's the other thing they're coming that deep.
Brian Bashore (27:50.99)
Crazy crazy. I'm not gonna miss that this year.
Mark Courts (27:54.189)
No, and you actually spend time with your family back home, you know, on the food and
Brian Bashore (27:58.262)
Yep. Yep. Got to miss the Akaska while I throw down or the South Dakota wildlife classic. That's where we're to be on our family vacation up in the UP. That tournament looks nothing short, but just an absolute blast. The big fish tournament out by Lake Hawaii that if you all missed it, the previous podcast has Chad Schilling breaking that down. Really good idea. You've been with Afco for a while now, right? Mark.
Mark Courts (28:22.297)
Yeah, I've been with them, I don't know, probably 10 years now. So yeah, I've been with them a long time and they're all about conservation and they're all about, you know, communities and doing well for, you know, fisheries and things like that. So it's going to be fun to see what they can do with this and bring back the old walleye classic. You know, it was down quite a bit. It's struggled here the last couple of years and Akaska is such a neat community. mean, the
The community revolves around fishing and hunting. and everybody out there is as friendly as they can be. And so I know Chad, I talked to Chad last week and he's talking about throwing in a pontoon pot and doing some other things with guys that fish out of pontoons. So it'll be fun no matter what. I mean, they had a bunch of anglers. I think as of last week, there was like 120 and I think for a full payout for that 10 grand is 200 boats. So, or 200 anglers. So
Brian Bashore (28:50.2)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (29:15.832)
Yep. Right.
Mark Courts (29:17.681)
Um, and it's, it's cheap and, I'll tell you what, you're going to go to one of the, honestly, one of the best big fisheries in the country, right? I believe. I mean, you got a chance of literally catching a state record, every cast or every hole, you know, whether you're trolling or, a lot of those fish are coming trolling. So, um, you know, whether you're a troller, whether you're a cast or whatever you want to do, you've got a great opportunity to catch a lot of big fish.
Brian Bashore (29:40.204)
Yeah. And you can just, you can put half a dozen people on a pontoon and go scoping or slip bobbing or cranking and just start taking turns grabbing rods. I mean, you're to get your entry fee of 200 bucks back in a caff and Afco gear, you know, which I'm sure it's a, well, I throw down shirt and a pair of shorts that I had or something, but the Afco gear is, you know, I got some, I love the shorts. It's, it's good stuff. I got, I wear their Afco gloves every day. So.
Mark Courts (29:48.261)
Yep.
Mark Courts (29:53.178)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (30:03.949)
Yeah, and I guarantee everybody there is going to have a blast and it's going to be just a great community get together and setting.
Brian Bashore (30:13.794)
Yeah, you mentioned that the, walleye classic there struggling. seems kind of like we're talking about this, you know, beforehand, just a little bit that all the tournament, if it's just walleye, you're in the, you're doing the best stuff too. Are they all struggling with numbers right now? Or what, what do we think's going on here?
Mark Courts (30:23.889)
Mm-hmm.
I think there's so many different things going on, right? I mean, like, you know, there's, there's a hundred different tournaments that you can fish if you want to. And there's just nobody leading the pack on the walleye side. You know, everybody's leading the kind of wide open right now. Aims getting good numbers. MTT is doing good. The Michigan Walleye Trail is doing really good. They have huge numbers every tournament and that's a well run deal.
so there's just a lot of options for people and a lot of people don't want to travel as far as, know, what we travel and, put in the amount of time and put in the amount of days off, you know, and I don't care whether it's me or, know, I, whatever you want to call me, like it's still time away, like from my other job, like promoting, doing things for sponsors, all that, you know, I mean, I'd be real happy if we'd go to a set practice of.
you know, maybe four days. Um, and I think everybody'd be happy with that, you know, start on Saturday, there's Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, have an off day on Wednesday and fish Thursday, Friday and color good. You know, in championship you could do the same and just wouldn't be an off day. It'd be tournament day on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And I just think the fisheries would fish a lot better. Um, I think the competition would be better.
Brian Bashore (31:23.098)
days.
Mark Courts (31:48.185)
I think you'd get a lot more guys that have full-time jobs, not in the industry, or don't own their own businesses that can afford to leave and go. I think you'd just get a lot more anglers to do it. And whether you go east or west, I mean, you could do like the old PWT did, do three east, three west. And the guys that wanted to, you know, fish them all, could fish them all and do it that way too. I mean, it just, the amount of travel time, I mean, you know, like Cody Northrup.
I mean, he figured out it was going to be 90 hours in the vehicle this year, just travel time determines. I mean, that's just way too much when you talk about, you know, time off. That's another whole two work weeks off of work, you know, just in the vehicle.
Brian Bashore (32:32.354)
Yeah, that's just getting there. That's not counting the fishing days. And I did the math too, to go to Dunkirk and hear on them. Like that's got to cost a lot, way more, you know, unless you finished in the top five. You know, I don't get paid vacation as a fishing guide. So it's a, you're, you're in the hole and like, that's just, it's just sometimes it doesn't make sense. But I mean, obviously we're not fishing them to, you know, to make a living off the winnings so much in the walleye world. If you guys are doing well enough, but it's.
Mark Courts (32:43.909)
Yep.
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (33:00.856)
You know, we fish tournaments because we're passionate about, love it. We love to compete. And obviously when you can at least break even or bring home some money that, that softens that blow considerably and makes it a lot more enjoyable, you know, for, for sure. Our spouses.
Mark Courts (33:08.751)
Yeah, correct. Yeah, 100%. I mean, I don't care whether you're getting paid or not to fish. mean, that check at the end of the tournament is a lot of fun. Makes a big difference.
Brian Bashore (33:20.322)
Yeah, sure it is. Yeah. And I'm sure your wife and my wife definitely appreciate it when you, when you come home with it. So, you know, cause it's a, it's a grind out there. is, you know, they, they don't get to see everything, you know, from the outside, looking in at it. It's work. I mean, you're out there early, you're out there late. It's, it's long days, you know, and you're, and you're doing the stuff out there. Yeah. Yep. And you're.
Mark Courts (33:26.385)
Absolutely.
Mark Courts (33:40.505)
late nights, buying stuff, thinking about stuff, getting to dinner, getting back home, getting in bed and getting back up there.
Brian Bashore (33:46.86)
You're squeezing in those sponsorship obligations, trying to catch some photos or content on the water. Or maybe you're taking a, got a sponsor in the boat for a pre-fish day. There's just so much going on.
Mark Courts (33:58.885)
There's a lot more to it than people understand.
Brian Bashore (34:00.942)
Yeah. It's my wife overheard some people at the NTC talking about, and they were just spectators sitting there watching the way in the 105 degree heat. So there wasn't a whole lot of them. was nothing like when we were there before. But the stuff they were saying, she was polite enough. didn't interfere with, they would have asked her, she would have definitely educated them a little bit, but they were like, I think these guys should just, you know, they should just take some of these people out in their boat and compete. Just a random guy each day, you know, like.
They think we're just out there fishing for fun. And these people didn't qualify the previous year to get there. It is in a sense, But it was like, you know, very elderly type folks are like, well, they should, you know, we should just get to go with them for the day. That's what they should win or something. And it was, I don't know, she was just like, she blew her mind, but I'm like, well, they don't know, you know, they're not, not in the, into this, but, but you are right with the Coeingler situation that that is what we're doing.
Mark Courts (34:35.077)
Basically what we're doing.
Mark Courts (34:52.921)
Yeah, absolutely.
Brian Bashore (34:59.83)
And after spending the tournament scoping them guys in the back of the boat while we're all the pros were up on these scope and tournaments. Now it's a, feel sorry for that. It, it, kind of sucks. So fortunately, peer or Lake Sharp and lacrosse got, know, in the way that lacrosse system and the party fish and I mean, the co-englers all had, you know, you had to catch fish. You're going there and has to catch fish. So.
Mark Courts (35:21.307)
yeah. A hundred percent. No, and that's, you know, that's the, and I don't mind that. I honestly think it's a good thing. because those guys want to learn, know, and whether you bring them up in the front of the boat and, and teach them how to use forward facing sonar or whether you figure out another method so they can catch fish. It's all good. You know what I mean? so yeah, I enjoy those and I don't mind slot tournaments, honestly.
lot of tournaments is what the average angler has to deal with wherever we go fishing. And so it's not that it's not a bad deal.
Brian Bashore (35:57.122)
No, that makes it, I mean, it adds another element to it. Right. And it's the whole, I fish has always been the mind game of what do I keep? What do I throw back? It's a huge, it's gambling term. It's gambling as it is, but you know, it's taken a risk and guys like me who said I'm going to this pool where I can only keep these. You're a hundred percent throwing it all out there. Or when you're throwing back your three pounder, you know, you're like water and like sharp and you got to.
Mark Courts (35:59.921)
100%.
Brian Bashore (36:23.278)
Grant, you kind of know over there, were keeping it pretty sure, but, know, but if it was fishing a little better, you might've been like, do I keep this? You know, that's a difference. I'm going for it all. And then now the local guys that aren't going for points or something like that, they all have that up ram because they can do that. You know, they're going for it all there. They're tossing them out.
Mark Courts (36:25.297)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (36:38.129)
100, 110 percent and you know I mean whether it's the local curse or whatever it is I don't mind the locals being there. mean like that's been a part of our sport forever but if we could get rid of it it'd be great. Like everybody that's fishing you know would just fish.
Brian Bashore (36:56.162)
Yeah, we're having to fish a little more conservative, just having to do different, hey, Viggy, you know, different things. We got to fish differently. And if you're going for points and to make the championship and all that, you know, versus a guy, guy that's just throwing it all, you know, just swinging, you know, I'm going out swinging and I'll blame them. And I don't mind the locals either. We need the numbers, so you need them. But then again, it's like, wow, we're competing against a different pool of anglers here, you know, and they're, and they're taking a.
Mark Courts (37:08.625)
100%.
Mark Courts (37:12.986)
Yes.
Brian Bashore (37:24.43)
a pod away from the guys that are trying to make a living on it. So that kind of sucks, but it's it's just a whole balancing game. And I don't don't foresee that change in or anything anytime soon.
Mark Courts (37:33.809)
No, mean the only way it's going to change if we go back to, you know, just you have to enter all three tournaments or all four tournaments to play and our numbers are what our numbers are and they get figured out. mean, whether you make the schedule east and west so guys don't have to travel and you get enough guys to do that, which I think you probably would. They haven't entertained it, but and I don't know if they will entertain that aspect of it.
But back in the day, I mean, at 125, we still had a waiting list. I mean, you had to wait to get into the PWT back then.
Brian Bashore (38:08.782)
Yep. Yeah. I know we had a, that was thrown out and there was little discussion around it. It didn't go very far.
Mark Courts (38:14.755)
No. And that's a problem we run into, right? mean, for some reason, what we're facing right now, they don't want any input and they're just going to run it way they are. That's what we're dealt with right now. That's what we're dealing with.
Brian Bashore (38:28.366)
Yeah, it's the, it's the game in town. like I said, but aim, aim's got some new stuff coming up and hopefully see, we're going to get, you know, Brett and, uh, Kent on here to discuss some of that, um, new circuit, but you do a lot of the bass stuff. Are we seeing the same thing in the bass world as we are in the walleye world with numbers or just participation?
Mark Courts (38:44.145)
No, you know, I mean, the Minnesota tour or the champions tour, which I fished, that was a full field of 65 had a great payout, a new boat at the end of the year. They filled up, they're actually going to cut their numbers back to make it more difficult to get in. And then they're going to open up a qualifier to get back into the tour. So, yeah, they're going to go down to a 50 boat field and they're excited about it. And I mean, they do a great job with social media.
Brian Bashore (39:04.824)
great.
Mark Courts (39:12.849)
the platform that they're on, they do a big video at the end, kind of recap the whole day. they get the youth involved being, marshals in the boat. so it's, it's, it's a really good program. and it's one that my buddy Scott bottom up built and, really got going and he just sold it last year.
to Dane Vizelka, a guy from Minneapolis that's just a go-getter and Dane does a great job and there's no doubt Dane's going to carry on the torch and do good things with it. So, no, they're doing a great job with it. I just, I mean, it's unfortunate that we had some opportunities back in the day. Scott tried to do a wall I won and it just didn't take off. But no, it's, I mean, there's only one game in town right now for us at the level we're at that
really is available. I mean, to fish a national level tournament, know, I, there's, yeah, the MWC it's another option, but it's a team circuit. It's not a national circuit. they got about the same amount of exposure though, that we got, honestly, minus what the great job that Robert Cardenas has done to keep this thing alive. Honestly, Robert's carried the torch and that's what's kept the thing alive.
Brian Bashore (40:32.105)
Saving grace, didn't they?
Mark Courts (40:33.527)
It is, mean honestly it is. So it'll be interesting to see what happens here in these next couple tournaments and see the direction that we had here going into next year.
Brian Bashore (40:43.566)
Yeah, they're going to have to make some, I mean, the anglers speak by not showing up. So you got to make adjustments or you don't. I mean.
Mark Courts (40:48.145)
100%.
Mark Courts (40:52.013)
And the unfortunate thing is right now with the amount of anglers we got that are willing to travel. Yeah, there's, there's a handful. There's probably 12 Eastern guys this year, maybe 15 that are doing it. So that's, that's a pretty good number for out East that we haven't seen that type of number, but we lost a lot of anglers from the West, North Dakota, South Dakota that normally would do it. And it's just, you know, it's, and that's why I keep saying.
three east, three west, and the guys that want to fish them all go fish them all. I I honestly think that's the best answer to it.
Brian Bashore (41:27.864)
And then take your best four or whatever for points or best three or whatever it is.
Mark Courts (41:31.045)
Yeah. So like the guy, mean, like PWT, what we did is X amount came out of the top guys that fished all six events. there was a good portion of that, whether it was 40 or whatever it was. And then we took 10 and 10, think from both East and West, you know, to make the championship, which 50 boat championship or whatever you want to make it doesn't matter. but it gives the guys an opportunity to fish, you know, three tournaments for sure at a national level.
Brian Bashore (41:38.754)
Mm-hmm. okay.
Mark Courts (42:00.465)
with big money and they don't have to travel near as far. It's in their backyards for the most part. I if you go east to west.
Brian Bashore (42:08.984)
Right. And we're very saturated with so many tournament circuits out there now that casino cups. I always told Northrop, like, you don't need to leave North Dakota, man. You got enough. had the big, my next tournament is the big 10 showdown. And that's not till end of September, October, you know, and these are, we feel that to a hundred boats, it's 30,000 top 10 payout, you know, and then you have day money and you get to big fish. You get in all the side stuff, your skater, Gavin, we have contingency programs. mean, there's some, I mean, that's money.
Shouldn't be leaving on the table. So I hope these directors are signing up for all this work because it's a five minute, you know, registration process even for the angler and you're talking.
Mark Courts (42:42.865)
Well, that's the problem. mean, a lot of these directors aren't paying attention to that. And whether you like it or not, mean, unfortunately that's part of the game. mean, I don't care whether you're sponsored by a certain boat brand or not. Good for you. I mean, that's, that's awesome. But the tournaments associations, whether they're sponsored by another boat company or not should still recognize that their consumer is maybe sponsored by a different boat company and there's opportunity for contingencies. Let them have those contingencies.
Brian Bashore (42:46.658)
Well...
Brian Bashore (43:13.698)
Yeah, I, Kurt, I don't know if you're listening to Cedar short term. needs to have both contingencies in there. The gov cup has it. You to continue to fill it out. You know, I did, I didn't even realize it before in the big 10. He's got it. Jeff's got it all down now. And, and, I'll even, I'll do the paperwork for you, We'll get it done. Cause I don't want to miss out on that nitro, the Ranger cup, nitro, dryden, not at all. Nope.
Mark Courts (43:21.841)
I didn't say it, you did.
Mark Courts (43:37.137)
It's not, it's not a big deal. mean, them to sign up for it. All they got to do is contact person and get signed up for it and give their anglers the opportunity to win a lot more money. And that's why, mean, that's going to increase your purse by 10 folds. I mean, I mean,
Brian Bashore (43:46.819)
Right.
Brian Bashore (43:53.513)
Yeah. Yeah. You're talking, these are, most of them are looking at, got to be at least a 60 boat field. And a lot of these are a hundred boats, you know, the Peter shores and a of these are a hundred and you're meeting the qualifications. So that's it. Let's just fill this out and give these people the opportunity. And if you don't win it, there's still, you know, 500 bucks or even down to just give cards for the clubs or I was going to do it for a club, but we don't, we don't, we don't have enough boats in it. Um, but it's still like, Hey, if it's a gift card, it's a gift card.
Mark Courts (44:00.879)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (44:18.747)
But I think that, I mean, there's a, there's like a Wednesday night or Tuesday night or up in that Northeast South Dakota area that they all get ranger cup. mean, there's 60, 70 boats and everyone those, that's a big deal. the, yeah, the fishing crew does a great job. They, have great locations. yeah, I mean, there's, there is a lot of options for tournaments for guys that don't want to travel. You know, it's just, and I mean,
So what are you gaining going to the national level? Really nothing minus the little bit of 15 minute TV. When you really cut it down. mean, they're not doing any justice to learning, know, teaching. Like, I mean, if I look back at, the fishing industry and I mean, I did a podcast with in fishermen where I started, what Lenders did back in the day with in fish, whether it was.
Brian Bashore (44:55.043)
Right.
Brian Bashore (45:03.159)
No.
Mark Courts (45:15.121)
print media, which I get that's not the thing anymore, but you can still do social content. You can still do, you know, via email type content. but they taught the anglers what the anglers were doing and, and whether we look at bass right now, whether we look at MLF, all these different circuits and what's going on with Ford facing sonar, everybody is just
jonesing for forward-facing sonar information and Tom Wynn's the one leading the charge. mean, Tom Wynn is doing a phenomenal job at what he's doing with Tom Wynn University. mean, you know, the kids are brilliant when he did what he's doing. mean, teaching people how to use forward-facing sonar is absolutely brilliant because the average consumer does not know how to use it. get it. 90 % of the anglers have the opportunity to get it and they want to learn it.
So once you get it, fish just don't jump in your boat because you have forward pace.
Brian Bashore (46:14.242)
Because people sure think they do though, don't they?
Mark Courts (46:17.329)
Oh yeah, everybody thinks that. But let me just tell you, I mean, whether you look at Bass or whether you look at the National Walleye Tour, okay, prime example, these first two tournaments, you look at guys that have led the charge the last couple of years, where are they? They aren't right at the top right now. And there's a reason for that because you actually had to fish both of those last two tournaments. mean, you actually...
You know, forward facing sonar still came into play and you could still see fish and locate fish and see how fish were relating to certain structures. But you still had to fish. mean, like you still had to just put your mind down and cast or throw something up to a wing dam or whatever you were doing, you know, or troll. Same with pier. Yeah, you could, if you wanted to run down south, you could use your forward facing sonar and catch fish.
Problem was they weighed about a pound less each fish. know, so, and that's the balance that we need, right? And I think you're seeing that in bass and I think you're seeing that in walleye. mean, that's the type of balance you need. If you, if you just go to a bunch of, you know, clear bodies of water or, or reservoirs or, and don't add in rivers or different situations, it's, it's, going to turn into 100%. But if it does that.
Brian Bashore (47:13.134)
Mm-hmm.
Mark Courts (47:37.211)
Then you got to promote that and teach people how to use that. So whether it's keeping an Angler around an extra day and sitting there with Robert and just doing a bunch of videos on what he was doing, where he was doing them, why he chose that spot, whatever it is, that's what the Anglers or that's what the public wants to see. And that's what I struggle with. mean, yeah, we can all sit there and watch anglers go across stage, big deal, whatever. It's the most boring.
Brian Bashore (47:40.778)
Right. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (48:04.064)
Exactly.
Mark Courts (48:06.161)
thing ever to watch until you jump in the boat and say, okay, what lure are you using? What bait are you using? You are you rigging your plastics? How are you rigging your live bait? You know, what are you casting at? What depths are you looking for? What? Why?
Brian Bashore (48:12.908)
And why?
Brian Bashore (48:21.358)
And know they have it because it would have been in my boat and I've gone over all that. You know, and you've done, sat there and tied a knot and said, Hey, here, look, you know, long time ago, before I see guys using Brooklyn, like Brooklyn is your sponsor here. I'm using this. This is why I'm tied up fluorocarbon to, you know, braid leader. You haven't, I'm like, once a B roll, here you go. You know, and
Mark Courts (48:25.265)
100 %
Mark Courts (48:30.566)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (48:38.726)
Yep.
Mark Courts (48:42.021)
And that's the type of stuff that I don't care if you do an extra show, I don't care if you do a social media clip, but that's what anglers want to know. I mean, that's what the consumer wants to know. If you're just going to put guys across stage and listen to an announcer, you've lost it. You've lost your audience.
Brian Bashore (48:58.414)
I Somebody sent me an old RCL clip yesterday It was old. It was Red Wing and I can't man. I only knew like Recognize like one of the top five names. It was it was old but I had to go over it or Mike in it man, who else just Doc was in it. I think he was He could I didn't get his watch at all, but it had like three announcers
Mark Courts (49:18.011)
Probably Doc Samson.
He probably won that one. Was that the one?
Mm-hmm.
Brian Bashore (49:27.406)
You know, breaking it down and all the interviews and it was, it wasn't a commercial. was a Rick and fish show. had commercials, but it wasn't nothing like you're seeing now, but they were exactly everything you're talking about is they were breaking it down. You know, this is the Fisher and the funk blah, blah. was only taking whatever 10, 11 pounds, but then a guy comes in at 22 pounds and what are the case was, but you know, they broke it down. They're on the water with them. It's all old school, obviously. Like, I mean, this is in probably 80s or 90s. So.
Mark Courts (49:56.657)
Yeah, 90s, if it was RCL. Oh, 2000s, 2000s, yeah.
Brian Bashore (49:57.614)
Yeah, probably early 90s. Yeah. It was, uh, yeah, I think was like 2000. Yeah, right. I'll say, yeah, four or eight or something, four or five is early 2000s. It was, it was at a full three and four. And I'm like, this is great. This is old and horrible cameras and what have you. mean, great for the time or probably mediocre for the time. I'm like, this is better than stuff being produced nowadays just because it was so much more educational and you got to, you're in the boat with them. And it's.
Mark Courts (50:03.643)
Four, five, yeah. Yeah.
Mark Courts (50:25.893)
And that's, mean, and the reason being is lenders produced all that. I mean, they did it all from the start of the PWT to the FLW. They were the film crew that did it and edited it and everything. And they just understood fishing. Right. mean, and that's what it takes. And that's the sad thing about our sport right now. And that's why it's so hard to get sponsors in the industry to get ahold of and grasp what we're trying to do. mean, like.
Brian Bashore (50:48.011)
Yep.
Mark Courts (50:52.813)
Yeah, we can all put out social media clips, but that one TV clip or that one social clip that how the guy won is going to gain so much more traction than anything. just because you got so many more viewers. mean, so that's, that's the struggle I deal with day in and day out. And I mean, I've tried and I've screamed and I've hollered, but they had nobody wants to listen. So it is what it is. I mean, I.
We're just all done trying to holler. mean, like it does us no good.
Brian Bashore (51:25.706)
I know you scream loud, scream loud, Kimo screams loud. We might be the three loudest, just like you're banging your head on a wall.
Mark Courts (51:30.309)
Yeah, 100%, but it's just like you're talking to a brick wall. And I mean, there's a lot of great fishermen out there right now. I mean, I don't care who you want to pick. mean, Max Wilson's on fire. The kid's genius with forward facing sonar. We'll get in his boat and figure it out. Like teach people. That's what they want to know. Tom Wins great with forward facing sonar. Teach people. I mean, this, that whole.
young group is really good with it. Teach people. That's what they want to know. I mean, I'd watch it. Like, I mean, and that's the, that's the sad truth that, mean, like everybody's jonesing for the information. We just want to see, I mean, you got the Will Pappenfusses. mean, you got a lot of guys that Jake Coggi, I mean, those guys are just straight hammers wherever they go. doesn't matter. I mean, Jake literally left the NTC, drove through the tornado.
North Dakota and got to Kakowin and won the tournament the next day with no pre-fish. I mean, so there's something to it, right? And that's what the general public wants to know.
Brian Bashore (52:42.146)
Yeah. What are you looking at? How are you picking out what to throw at? mean, it's exactly where we fish the NTC was I'm not throwing at those because they're not big enough. I'm not wasting a cast.
Mark Courts (52:47.087)
Yeah.
And I mean, Heizer's doing his thing now, which is awesome with his own show. And, and I mean, you got a lot of these guys doing that and that's great. But I mean, that's, that's coming out of their pockets and no, it's not cheap at all. I mean, it's, you're producing a TV show. mean, that that's literally what it is. And it's five to six grand to do each and every one of those. And that's just to get it. I mean, that's just get a film crew there not to produce it. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (53:00.568)
See ya and
Brian Bashore (53:16.174)
That's on the low side, depending on your quality of film crew. That could be the cost of one cameraman for one day. Yeah, it is not cheap. it's everybody wants to see all this live stream stuff. like, it, you know, I got a ton of footage from our NTC thing, but I'm like, it's going to take me hours. It's about an hour per three minutes of footage editing time. I think is what you can figure it if, depending on the quality of it, you can just throw some stuff in there and put some background music and let it roll. But it's just you catching fish.
Mark Courts (53:19.873)
and how many guys you got.
Mark Courts (53:34.864)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (53:38.609)
I mean, I mean, mean, back in my career, I forget what you're me, my, or myself and Jason Schurte and Scott Styles went on the water live and we actually streamed live. Um, and that was like, I mean, that was before any of this even started. And I mean, we were literally doing it with laptops in our boats. And I mean, it was absolutely crazy. The amount of work we had to do to get that to work. But I mean, we tried to make it fly for a year and it's just.
mean, with cell service and dumping cell service and losing cell service, it was just a pain in the butt.
Brian Bashore (54:10.328)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (54:14.478)
It's a huge pain in the butt way too much taking away from your fishing and your focus. And I mean, now you can have it set up if you got the star link, which you still got to pay your monthly. And then you're still a lot of money into it. That's about all you can depend on now is running the star link system. And then you got to mount that somewhere in your boat. And then, mean, you can just run it from your phone, but you're going to drop signal, you know, and then having the mounts and brackets with things ain't falling in the lake. It's it's just, if you have it all set up, you right. You could just hit.
Mark Courts (54:26.448)
Yep.
Mark Courts (54:39.843)
and cameras didn't die.
Brian Bashore (54:42.888)
button to let it go, but it's not that easy. It's easy when somebody else runs it and you can just fish.
Mark Courts (54:48.367)
And you actually need somebody back watching it all and kind of conducting it and putting it out there. mean, ultimately, mean, Chris Eldane's doing that on the elites and I mean, back at home running the, you know, the, the board and trying to make sure everything's working right. Trying to keep it all going. So yeah, I mean, there's a lot to it. It's just, I mean, it depends on how deep you want to get into it.
Brian Bashore (55:14.06)
Yeah, you can't fish that level and then try to be a producer at the same time. You're just something, something's going to give and you're going to, you're going to.
Mark Courts (55:19.865)
No. I mean, you know, there's some really dumb rules that I don't understand in our deal. Like if you drop signal, why you can't reboot it and keep going. Like, I don't understand that.
Brian Bashore (55:29.891)
Boot it.
Actually, I'm just helping promote this circuit. I'm just helping people want to be part of this and see it and viewership. All this is doing is good, but if I lose it, I got to just be done. yeah. Yeah. It's some things we'll never know. Right. Things we will never know. Mark, it's out of our control. Like said, we, we definitely are the ones that bang our heads against the wall a lot. So, all right. It's, it's, it's a lot of stuff to digest folks. Mark, we've been on here for a while.
Mark Courts (55:38.577)
you
Yep.
100%.
Mark Courts (55:47.908)
No.
Mark Courts (55:51.781)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (56:03.49)
Good insight, great stuff, good luck coming up in here on an eerie. I wish you the best of luck up there in light winds, very light and variable. I hope it doesn't even say five to 10. I hope it says light and variable. that would be, it'll make it so much more fun no matter the outcome.
Mark Courts (56:15.089)
That'd be really nice, but we've got two weeks on the Great Lakes. I'm guaranteeing that I'm not gonna see that every day.
Brian Bashore (56:23.094)
No, if you could at least get that on tournament days and least one practice day, then you'll take it. Things will work out. We had that at Saginaw Bay. remember the week, the practice week sucked, but the tournament days were actually pretty nice. It's better now far he went, but.
Mark Courts (56:26.927)
We'll take it.
Mark Courts (56:34.321)
Really nice. I mean, yeah, and I mean, yeah, you can get nice days. That's there's no doubt about it. But when you don't have any options besides the big water, you're pretty much screwed. Then actually, I should say the next two tournaments, the next three tournaments, we actually have water at every one of them. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (56:42.753)
Yeah.
And that changes how you fish, like Green Bay.
Brian Bashore (56:51.502)
All right. Yeah. Green Bay. Cause we had that and that Memorial day on that green Bay when you were like, it's a one day deal. said, I'm going river and digging up my limit of fish and trolling motor broke. Cause I crashed some big waves and like, whatever that's points. I just needed points and half the field didn't make it to the championship because they zeroed. So I might pounds was good enough for like a 48th or something like that, but I'm like, got the championship. Yeah. Got in last boat out first boat in. So.
Mark Courts (57:06.522)
That's it.
Yep.
Mark Courts (57:14.359)
Absolutely, take it to the bank. That's right.
Brian Bashore (57:20.376)
broke the hell. But the best thing was that Ultrex is tough as nails, man. That thing was in pieces because I didn't have it stowed properly and didn't know any better. And I just took some of the pins that were laying on the deck and stuck them back in there. Spotlock held me in the river and jigged up six fish and went and weighed in. And then I'm like, that's it. These things, this motor is fricking solid. Absolutely love that thing. Well, you to leave our listeners with some insights and little nugget to help them in their Anglin journey, whether they're just a weekend warrior or venturing down the tournament proing.
Mark Courts (57:33.873)
There you go.
Mark Courts (57:50.691)
Yeah, mean, I don't honestly I don't think there's anything more than time on the water. I mean, honestly, the best thing you can do is put time on the water. Honestly, trust your electronics. I mean, your electronics are as good as they get now that there's absolutely no reason to not trust them. If you aren't marking fish, get out of there. I don't care if you have four room facing sonar. I don't care what if you just have 2D, if you just have down imaging or if you have side imaging.
Brian Bashore (58:03.607)
Yeah, that's
Mark Courts (58:18.019)
Trust your electronics and just understand your electronics. Trust your Lake Master chip. You know, do a little research before you go to new bodies of water. mean, it's, you know, it's the simple things that go a long ways and, you know, there's no better information than, you know, the local bait stores and what's happening if you're going on a vacation. and just kind of dial it in once you get there. mean, you know, that's the cool thing about Lake Master chip, things like that. I mean, if I've been catching them in
15 to 18 foot of water, can highlight that in any color I want and I can see it all the way around the lake and I can pretty much tell where those fish are going to be. And whether you're on a Missouri river or the Mississippi river or, you know, any standard body, you know, inland body of water. mean, that's, that's the type of things that go a long way where you can actually see other locations that look like where you're catching them. You know, play the wind, obviously all the time with walleyes. mean, they're
typically relating to wind and bait getting blown into certain areas. yeah, electronics is definitely, I mean, and you don't have to spend that much. I you can go out and lie and explore right now and not spend a lot of money and have some phenomenal electronics. So.
Brian Bashore (59:31.746)
Yeah, that is a spot on so many people don't realize that highlight that depth and all of a there's new spots that pop out that you've been driving right by. I, there's a hump in the middle lake you didn't know about, and I guarantee you there's fish on it.
Mark Courts (59:39.873)
Absolutely. I mean...
Yep, that's it. mean, whether you're catching them on a point or whether you're catching them on a flat, whatever, they all show up and it's right in front of your eyes if you color coat things. And so utilize that to your advantage.
Brian Bashore (59:56.898)
I had a, some clients in a boat there today and I got two explorers on the dash. Cause I love my bird side image inside him in this, and the mapping you gotta have the bird for if you live in South Dakota, you're crazy without it. I But I have six to eight foot highlighted one to three foot. Right. So I'm like running all my sandbars and it's so my map's all colorful versus this guy turned on and the guy's like, well, we gotta get one of these. this kid is like, we, have one of those, you know, he's like, what doesn't look like that? I'm like, well, you got to set all this up, man.
Mark Courts (01:00:02.585)
Okay.
Mark Courts (01:00:06.993)
Yep.
Mark Courts (01:00:23.761)
You just gotta turn it on.
Brian Bashore (01:00:25.102)
You got to turn on this. And then I found a little feature with my side imaging where I can set that little, uh, little gauge out there or whatever. So I can kind of be like, Oh, that's. Yeah. I'm like, Oh, I'm hitting so I can go. So you're not running over those fish on the point or something, right? You can kind of just drive your boat right around it. You know that, all right. That's 90 feet is right here. And at 90 feet, if you've been on forward facing sonar folks, 60, 70, 80, 90 feet is like that. It's not very far. That's a pretty, pretty easy cat. When you're whipping it, that's a hundred foot cast. So, um,
Mark Courts (01:00:31.855)
Yep, you can actually see what you're looking at.
Mark Courts (01:00:38.927)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (01:00:50.288)
No.
Mark Courts (01:00:53.594)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (01:00:55.022)
Yeah, super cool features and that 100 % master electronics, become a master angler. It's pretty simple.
Mark Courts (01:01:00.689)
And the only way you can do that, honestly, and I tell people this all the time, is leave your rods at home. Just go out fishing one day and leave your rods at home and just mess with your electronics. mean, you know, whether you're on the windy side of lake or the calm side of lake, you're going to have adjust your sensitivity. But other than that, these units are coming out of the factory as good as they get. And the only thing you have to adjust is your sensitivity. And that's due to just water clarity. mean, if you got some algae bloom or if you got, you know, whatever muddy water.
you're gonna have to adjust your sensitivity to see the fish in that clutter, but other than that, that's about it.
Brian Bashore (01:01:36.034)
Yeah, they, they have come a long ways and I said the same thing dozens of times, just leave those as hard as it is, leave those rods in the truck or at home and go find a piece of structure and drive around to drive down the dam. So you start to understand what it is you're looking at, drive around some stumps.
Mark Courts (01:01:49.357)
Yeah, you see rocks, see, you see stumps, you see, then you see fish and you're like, that's what fish look like. Especially in sand is where you can really locate fish and understand what they look like on side imaging. And then you just take that to the next level and look at them in mud or look at them in sand or, you know, rock or whatever, but you can understand what they look like.
Brian Bashore (01:01:57.773)
Yep, really.
Brian Bashore (01:02:10.946)
Yeah, those sand returns of shadows is that's I think the light bulb goes off when people see that like, there they are. Like, yeah, turn around and start throwing a jig, buddy. They're there. That is a pack of walleyes ready to eat. You can get them. So, all right. Good stuff, Mark. You go night cast or you're not going to go. Okay.
Mark Courts (01:02:16.079)
or yeah.
Absolutely, because they're there.
Mark Courts (01:02:28.919)
I am not going to ICAST. No, I'm going to take it off this year and get a lot of things going once we get back from Michigan, then we're going to get a couple things done and then head out to Casca.
Brian Bashore (01:02:43.086)
Yeah, Casca, man, I'm bummed I'm missing that, but it's all right. Final vacation, got this, kid's got a couple of years left at the home. So we're going to go spend some time with her and take her to some new fun places and uh.
Mark Courts (01:02:47.365)
Yeah.
Mark Courts (01:02:52.407)
Absolutely, go see some cool stuff up in the UP.
Brian Bashore (01:02:55.426)
Yep. And I think we'll go to a Casca before that just for a day or two and maybe shoot some video up there with some forward facing. So in our man, get bow in the boat and show me how it's done. So the boy's a fricking hammer. He's going to be one of those young guns showing us all thing or two. You already has. So he's just going to do it on the big levels.
Mark Courts (01:03:00.031)
One.
Mark Courts (01:03:04.558)
Absolutely.
Mark Courts (01:03:10.209)
Yeah, no, I actually got the chance to fish with him down at Sharp and he's next level already on that stuff. mean, that's all the kid does. I mean, and they do it well. mean, there are some guides on the Missouri River.
Brian Bashore (01:03:22.282)
It is, he's it. Yep. He's at a place where he gets, he gets to, I mean, it's the perfect place to educate yourself because you've got a lot of targets out there, but you also, got these big fish. So you're, he's identifying. Right. That's yeah, he's everything.
Mark Courts (01:03:33.733)
And you got multiple species. mean, you're seeing multiple species. You're seeing catfish, you're walleyes, you're seeing big walleyes, you're seeing little walleyes. you know, they utilize it year round, you know, whether it's winter or summer, they're constantly on it. And yeah, no, he's just a great stick and a great kid to be around. I've guided with him numerous years. He's just a really good person. So no, Bo's a good kid.
Brian Bashore (01:03:42.456)
tunnel bass.
Brian Bashore (01:03:59.522)
Yep, comes from good stock, so no surprise. No surprise there. No surprise there at all. All right, Mr. Kortz, thank you for your time and thank you all for tuning into this episode of Real Talk Fishing with No Limits and stay safe and we'll see you on the water.