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Law firm owners frequently wake up feeling behind before the day even begins because their nervous systems are trapped in a chronic state of fight, flight, or freeze. This persistent anxiety is a physiological drain on your energy that restricts access to the prefrontal cortex, ultimately impacting your ability to make critical and strategic decisions for your firm. Maximum Lawyer exists because too many smart and caring lawyers are trapped in firms that own them instead of firms they own.
In this episode, Tyson Mutrux sits down with former trial lawyer Lexlee Overton to discuss how upgrading your internal operating system is the ultimate growth strategy for legal entrepreneurs. They explore the science of state management and explain how your emotional coherency directly influences your team's performance, your courtroom presence, and your overall ability to scale. Lexlee highlights why the traditional hustle mentality often leads to burnout and how true leaders prioritize well-being to build a culture of high retention and measurable results.
Law firm owners change more lives when they stop building jobs and start building businesses. To support this mission, Lexlee shares practical playbooks for regulating your nervous system, performing daily energy audits, and implementing simple recovery protocols. These proven strategies ensure you can effectively manage stress, reclaim your time, and create a sustainable business that serves your life and family.
Highlights
00:00:23 The science behind waking up anxious and feeling behind.
00:01:47 How a reactive state blocks your access to strategic decision making.
00:05:27 The post trial physiological crash and the importance of recovery protocols.
00:07:19 Why lawyers constantly struggle to shut their brains off at home.
00:08:29 Performing an energy audit to track your daily fueling and draining activities.
00:11:39 Five minute breathing practices to quickly shift into recovery mode.
00:13:53 Upgrading your internal operating system as a core leadership advantage.
00:19:50 Why scrolling on your phone deceptively depletes your daily energy.
00:23:50 The strategic benefits of managing healthy morning cortisol.
00:28:06 How your nervous system unconsciously impacts your team and clients.
00:36:47 Common mistakes owners make when trying to improve overall team performance
Connect with Lexlee:
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lexleeoverton/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/lexlee.overton
Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/share/g/14Z74inmZUj/
Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexleeoverton/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@mindoverlaw
Resources:
Join the Guild Membership
Subscribe to the Maximum Lawyer Youtube Channel
Follow us on Instagram
Join the Facebook Group
Follow the Facebook Page
Follow us on LinkedIn
Follow Maximum Lawyer for more conversations on building a stronger, more connected, and more intentional law firm.
In this episode, Tyson Mutrux sits down with former trial lawyer Lexlee Overton to discuss how upgrading your internal operating system is the ultimate growth strategy for legal entrepreneurs. They explore the science of state management and explain how your emotional coherency directly influences your team's performance, your courtroom presence, and your overall ability to scale. Lexlee highlights why the traditional hustle mentality often leads to burnout and how true leaders prioritize well-being to build a culture of high retention and measurable results.
Law firm owners change more lives when they stop building jobs and start building businesses. To support this mission, Lexlee shares practical playbooks for regulating your nervous system, performing daily energy audits, and implementing simple recovery protocols. These proven strategies ensure you can effectively manage stress, reclaim your time, and create a sustainable business that serves your life and family.
Highlights
00:00:23 The science behind waking up anxious and feeling behind.
00:01:47 How a reactive state blocks your access to strategic decision making.
00:05:27 The post trial physiological crash and the importance of recovery protocols.
00:07:19 Why lawyers constantly struggle to shut their brains off at home.
00:08:29 Performing an energy audit to track your daily fueling and draining activities.
00:11:39 Five minute breathing practices to quickly shift into recovery mode.
00:13:53 Upgrading your internal operating system as a core leadership advantage.
00:19:50 Why scrolling on your phone deceptively depletes your daily energy.
00:23:50 The strategic benefits of managing healthy morning cortisol.
00:28:06 How your nervous system unconsciously impacts your team and clients.
00:36:47 Common mistakes owners make when trying to improve overall team performance
Connect with Lexlee:
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lexleeoverton/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/lexlee.overton
Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/share/g/14Z74inmZUj/
Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexleeoverton/
Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@mindoverlaw
Resources:
Join the Guild Membership
Subscribe to the Maximum Lawyer Youtube Channel
Follow us on Instagram
Join the Facebook Group
Follow the Facebook Page
Follow us on LinkedIn
Follow Maximum Lawyer for more conversations on building a stronger, more connected, and more intentional law firm.
Creators and Guests
Host
Tyson Mutrux
Tyson is the founder of Mutrux Firm Injury Lawyers and the co-founder of Maximum Lawyer.
What is Maximum Lawyer?
Maximum Lawyer is the podcast for law firm owners who want to scale with intention and build a business that works for their life.
Hosted by Tyson Mutrux, each weekly episode features candid conversations with law firm owners, business experts, and industry leaders sharing real strategies and lessons learned in the trenches.
If you're ready to grow your firm with less stress and more support, this is your next must listen. Subscribe today.
Tyson Mutrux 00:00:02 This is maximum lawyer with your host, Tyson Matrix.
Tyson Mutrux 00:00:13 Lexlee, when a law firm owner, they wake up. They're already feeling behind what's actually happening in their brain in that moment.
Lexlee Overton 00:00:23 Well, when we wake up and we're already feeling anxious, we're just already in the state. It's it really starts in the nervous system, right? Which is affecting the brain. Right? It's the part of the nervous system that is what we refer to as fight, flight or freeze. And unfortunately, a lot of us are living in that, just a really chronic low state of that. And when we're in that state, there are some bonuses when you're under deadlines, right? There's some adrenaline that gets dumped in and cortisol that makes you go, oh, I can get it done. I sometimes have clients say, I get my best work when I'm under the deadline. Yeah, you think you do, right? There is some part that biologically that supports you there. But unfortunately what we're doing is really living there chronically.
Lexlee Overton 00:01:05 So when we're waking up in that state, we're actually already very low energy, very low state of what we call coherency, like scientific term of what's happening in your body physiologically between your heart and your brain and an incoherent state. We're really low performing. So you are behind. You're thinking that you're behind. And actually physiologically you are. And it will impact immediately what's going to unfold in that day.
Tyson Mutrux 00:01:38 What does that reactive state of two decision making really? How does it affect your performance throughout the day?
Lexlee Overton 00:01:47 So in that state we are we don't have I like to when I teach to law students, I say you're just not that smart when you're in that state, right? Because we don't really have access to the part of the brain as lawyers that we want to have access to. So all the tapping into the cognitive skills that we want is as a part of the prefrontal cortex, which has the things like, the part that's responsible for judgment and strategy and helping us to make critical decisions to see the big picture and not just have tunnel vision, which is usually when we're in that state, we just pick the thing that's right here.
Lexlee Overton 00:02:25 The most immediate thing that we think will, is, is really the only choice that we see. So when it as the day is unfolding, it affects everything you do as far as decision making and how you show up. So I want you to think of it like this. When you wake up and you already feel behind, you really are. And I'm going to use the word energy. We can think about energy as our state management, but you really are like an energy system when we're looking at measuring Heart rhythms and measuring brainwaves on EEG. We're really measuring the energy of the system, right? The output that is happening and every from moment to moment, you're spending energy in some way, and every moment you're in some emotional state, every single moment. So right now, I'm excited to be here. It's a feeling kind of energy. If it feels good, right, it feels creative. If I am an energy, if I'm an emotional state of anxiety, we know that physiologically that impacts and drains the system of energy.
Lexlee Overton 00:03:28 So from moment to moment you're either recharging, you're fueling the system, or you're draining the system. So if we wake up and we're already feeling behind, and that is a feeling really of just being low energy. And if you want to think about how that affects the day, Tyson, when you're low energy, how do you handle how do you handle stressful situations?
Tyson Mutrux 00:03:50 It reminds me of formula one where if you're on the straightaways, they're they're kind of sprinting and they're using up their battery. And whenever they're there, they're kind of on the corners. They're charging their battery. It's what makes me think of that. Exactly. So I think it's kind of interesting. Yeah, that's I, I can easily connect with that.
Lexlee Overton 00:04:06 Right. And and what we want to do is, is start to look at and what I teach people are daily practices that help you to refuel, but also teach your system how to recover faster. So, you know, the brain has neuroplasticity. And that's a great thing because we can learn to operate differently in the way that we've been operating.
Lexlee Overton 00:04:30 And there are simple things that practice that you can do on a day to day basis that you can think that are fueling to the system. And then there are that also help you and sustain that. So when when I work, you know, I was a former trial lawyer, I experienced burned out. I know what it's like to push really, really, really hard. And I can remember it was probably the first jury trial that I had with my with my dad. I dad. I was very lucky. I got to practice law with my dad, and I remember I don't remember the specifics of the case or anything like that. I remember the verdict was successful and we should be excited. And I remember saying to him, I don't know, I feel like I'm depressed. And his explanation of that was, that's because it's so intense. You focus for so many months preparing for this, and then all of a sudden it's over. Well, now that I know what I know about state management and energy management, he's correct.
Lexlee Overton 00:05:27 But it's also that that takes such intense energy to get through that. Then when your system starts to reset right after, you feel really, really drained. And oftentimes a worn out nervous system results in like a depressed feeling because we don't have energy. So what I do is I what I try to get people to focus on. There are practices just like when you go to the gym every day, or you work out every day for your body, their practices that you can do for your body and your mind. That help build resilience, that that help you when you're in trial or in, you know, trials. A big example, it could be that you're pushing through a certain deadline, right? when you're doing that and you're really intensely focused, I think it is it helps you to be able to recover faster. But I think, too, that there has to be looking at the times when you're talking about, the, you know, the straightaways being full out in the curves, recovering.
Lexlee Overton 00:06:28 We also have to look at that. The recovery protocol is just as important.
Tyson Mutrux 00:06:35 So I'm really curious because I, I'm guilty of this myself. Why why do you so many lawyers feel like their brain just never shuts off, even when they're at home? So I could be at home with my kids. I could be at the soccer game with my kids and my wife, and we could be watching. But I'm like, my brain is firing. It's going like, why is it, why is that?
Lexlee Overton 00:06:56 It's because you've not really totally shifted the other part of your nervous system, which is the part of the nervous system that is rest and recovery. So the part of this fight, flight or freeze is actually the part where you step, you step on the gas pedal, right? And you're going fast and you're firing. And it helps us when there are deadlines. It gets the thing that gets us out of bed in the morning to do the thing that we don't want to do. Right.
Lexlee Overton 00:07:19 But the other part of the nervous system, it is more, is very important to learn how to tap into that part of the nervous system, which is the part about rest and recovery. When we're always firing. We actually have not learned how to to reset the system, to be in the place where we can be in more stillness. Unfortunately, with the way that the world is designed today digitally, all the distractions that we have, we're actually addicted to that. The brain going, going, going and like, you know, the different distractions you have from the email peeing to the text being a little bits of dopamine hit. But what happens with us neurologically as a result of that is that we actually become desensitized to dopamine. And so our systems require more and more stimulation to feel the motivation. Does that make sense?
Tyson Mutrux 00:08:10 It does. I am curious though. How do we, I guess, how do we build in more of that restoration time that that time to rest? Like, how do we build that into our lives, and is there a right way of doing it? A wrong way of doing it?
Lexlee Overton 00:08:25 Well, it's like looking at, everybody's different.
Lexlee Overton 00:08:29 So there's a way of looking at, first is just having awareness as the first. The very first step is like, where are you? energetically. So I like to think about doing an energy audit. And that is literally, keeping track of the things that you do. So when we have teams, then we have them track their time to see how they're spending their time so we can increase productivity. We're also looking at tracking your time and everything that you do and asking yourself when you look at it. does this thing fuel me or does it drain me? And you'll be really surprised of how much of what you're doing is really draining you. So first, that gives you awareness because then it's, you know, we're going to ask you to do something to change. And we usually need a why behind. Have the motivation for that. Then it's looking at protecting and doing simple practices that can help you. Like I said, to start to wire your system to be different. If we're always wired to be on, we can train our system to be in a different state.
Lexlee Overton 00:09:30 So I said that every moment, from moment to moment, we have we have emotion. There's some emotional state that we're living in. When I do talks with lawyers and the room is an audience of lawyers, I'll ask them, what's your emotional home? And the last week, what are the top three emotions that you had? What would that be for you, Tyson?
Tyson Mutrux 00:09:52 probably, I don't know, coaching, like, there's, like, things like that that I really like.
Lexlee Overton 00:10:01 And when you're coaching, the emotional state that you're in is.
Tyson Mutrux 00:10:06 it depends. It's, it depends. It depends on if we're winning or not. But if I'm if I'm coaching that, I'm then we're in a good state. If we're not, then I'm kind of in a pouty state, but, that's, that's that's usually my defaults.
Lexlee Overton 00:10:20 Yeah. So when I'm looking for emotional homes, usually when I hear the first thing I hear is that the number one state is like anxiety. And then there's some that sometimes, I hear a lot from lawyers as frustration is another one, like even going into anger.
Lexlee Overton 00:10:35 and then, you know, maybe some people have a gratitude practice so that they have a state that they're in gratitude at times. And those might be their three top. We actually can train the system to be in the have our emotional home be different. So to be more, centered, to be more collaborative. To be peaceful. To be creative as opposed to the emotional home being anxiety. So when you're asking for what is some of the things that we can do, it's it's looking at what is going on with you and, and what are the most draining things. And then where can you build in simple practices that help you to restore. So the number one resistance I have from people is I don't have the time. Well, you you you can't afford not to have the time. But I'm not asking for you to take a hike on a mountaintop and sit and and and meditate right? Hours at a time. Simple practices. So breathing practices, five minutes of a breathing technique that slows your system and puts you in a part of the nervous system.
Lexlee Overton 00:11:39 That's the rest. And recovery, is very restorative and helps you to move from an incoherent brainwave state, which is like high beta. When we're really anxious and trying to push through something to one that goes drops into a more creative, focus centered state. So breathing practices are really, really easy, simple ways to shift that you're the more you do them, then you, actually train your system to recover faster. But we really have to look at if we're talking about emotional states or the impact on our performance, then we also have to look at what fuels those emotional states. So I like to think of it as building the environment for your your internal operating system to be the highest operating system that it can be. So we have to look at the beliefs that we have, the stories that we have about what's happening in our lives from moment to moment. Because those stories, those beliefs are fueling the emotional state, and they actually really define the way that you make a decision, the different lens that you have on something.
Lexlee Overton 00:12:45 So if I'm really negative, if I, if I say today I have to do this and I really start to tell my story, that it's going to be hard, it's going to it's going to take a lot of time. It's going to be exhausting. Well, God, I'm already exhausted just even thinking about it, right. And actually, physiologically, my whole system has shifted to that, which actually will make it a harder thing to get through. Whereas if the story is I get to do this, I have the opportunity to do this. This is going to be a learning experience. I'm going to come out of this and I'm going to feel good about it totally changes the energy that you bring into the system. So looking first, the first part of that internal operating system is having awareness of the story that you're telling yourself. The second part is really the state management, which is what we're talking about emotions that impact our physiology, which impact performance. I think I listened to one of your podcast, Tyson and you were talking about that health was going to be the, the the difference.
Lexlee Overton 00:13:53 And in the future of success in, in law firms. And I think it's the difference in the future of success in leadership. And I think it's true. We have available to us all these different ways to upgrade our law firms right from different types of case management systems to the AI and the way that we're using it. What I'm asking you to think about is how do you upgrade your internal operating system, how do you upgrade your brain? That's how it's going to be the difference in performance. And you were using the term health. And I think of it as health or energy and well-being because health is is all encompassing, right? It's first our physical health. And then we got to look at our mental and emotional, and the mental and emotional is all about the energy. So learning to manage your state is which is managing your energy is the key to success. The belief that pushing harder and hustling more is the thing that's going to get you to the next. It will. It's but it's going to cost you and it's you're not going to do it as fast as someone who knows how to manage their state and their energy and leads that.
Lexlee Overton 00:15:03 So I think the most important thing that we can do as leaders is to lead and teach well-being. And I don't know about you, but when I became a lawyer, you know, over 30 years ago, nobody was talking about that. And we were just pushing harder and, and, and, and as a result, five years in, I really did have like already as a burnout and exhaustion, and we haven't really improved on it. There was a study done in 2024 that shows that, you know, associates are leaving sooner out of law. Firms used to be about 5 to 6. They're leaving 3 to 4 years in. And it's not because of compensation. That's only like fifth on the factors of why people stay. It really comes down to the culture that you're leading, and it has a lot to do with the culture of if you are leading wellbeing, and that's performance. So learning to be able to regulate your nervous system, all this that we're talking about and breath is the first way breathing practices is the first thing that will shift you from one side of your nervous system to the other.
Lexlee Overton 00:16:06 But beliefs comes in and learning the state management so that you're when you're under pressure, you're doing your best thinking as opposed to your worst thinking when you're just under the pressure, perceiving it as a threat. Then the third part is, is really understanding and managing what your attention is. So where is your focus? Where you direct your mental energy. So that is the most monetizable cognitive resource that we have is our attention. And that comes back. And it all ties together back that first step. And by looking at belief and story has a lot to do with how we focus in the lens on what is happening. And then I think the last thing that's really important in this internal operating system is what we just mentioned about is recovery, because you can't keep high performance without having recovery as a part of it. And that's the whole ties the whole thing into how do we teach wellbeing and lead that if you are a leader that's coming in and you're anxious and you're responding that way and you're doing that in front of your team, you're one you're impacting them, you're making them anxious.
Lexlee Overton 00:17:19 And we absolutely know that anxiety is low performance state. And so we have to learn to first have the awareness of where we are and understand that we have to teach. So what we're teaching teams to do in leaders to do is is these wellbeing, these energy practices. And then we teach the team and then we create team building exercises Around these practices. And what happens is, is when, when law firms invest in wellbeing programs because there's been a real drive for that, especially from the American Bar Association in the last, you know, 6 to 7 years of really asking law firms to do that. The attrition rates, or measurably like improved it is the success on being able to keep people and keep them long term. is very, very high when you put those programs into place.
Tyson Mutrux 00:18:17 It's funny you say that we just started our our MF wilderness program, yesterday because that was our last quarterly meeting. People wanted an actual wellness program. We have other things that we we build in. We'll pay for gym memberships and things like that.
Tyson Mutrux 00:18:31 but that's a little bit different. I it's it's I want to ask you a question about charging versus draining activities, but I, I just want to make a reference to a conversation I had with my daughter this morning because we were on our way to school and she was like, oh my gosh, I have P.E. today. I don't want P.E. it's going to be terrible. And I said, well, here's the great thing. You have a choice as to whether or not it's going to be a great experience for you, or it's going to be a terrible experience for you. And so you can decide now whether or not you're going to really you're going to enjoy P.E. and you're going to get something out of it, or you're you can make the choice now as to whether or not it's going to be terrible. And it was interesting watching. I was watching her in the rear view kind of like process that oh, it's and she could tell she's like, oh, okay. And she's, she's very receptive.
Tyson Mutrux 00:19:15 She's like like it's one of those things where she'll listen to the things I'm saying and kind of, and adapt. So I think it's always great. But I want to ask you about charging activities versus draining activities, because I think that there are some things that might be deceptively draining, although they might feel like they're charging. So I'll just use I'll pick on scrolling, I'll let people will scroll and they'll probably think, oh, this is I'm just relieving some stress here. I'm just going to scroll and I'm going to charge my battery. Are there some other things that are deceptively draining, even though they may feel like they're charging your battery?
Lexlee Overton 00:19:50 Yeah. So that example of scrolling is the reason why it feels like it's charging your batteries, because you're actually getting a little bit of a dopamine hit from that. But that's also the problem, because the more you do that, the more you got to do something to actually feel stimulation, to feel some kind of motivating. and, and so it becomes that you become desensitized to that.
Lexlee Overton 00:20:15 you know, it's interesting when people think about, well, when you're really stressed, obviously that's draining. You don't have to have a high heart rate for it to be a draining activity. Boredom. Big key for me. I can't stand to be bored. It's actually very draining on the system. And when you look at it and when you're looking at what happens with your heart rhythm variability in your brainwave state, it actually becomes very coherent, incoherent, and so not energy fueling. I think that things like, you know, doing the same thing or, chilling out on Netflix. obviously activities that we think socially are okay and seem like to, to relax us. Things like alcohol, you know. and it's so much accept it socially, but actually, it's something that's very draining on the system and very depleting. even just one drink. the what happens physiologically, it's very deceptive. You get a little bit of a relaxing, but then your system actually is a draining or depressive response from that and needs more to feel it the next time, you know, things like that.
Tyson Mutrux 00:21:28 How is that different from something like a cold plunge? Because I love cold plunges. I think they're amazing. I mean, is, is, I guess how is that different? Like, can you get used to that feeling to the point where, like, it's no longer like filling you back out, if that makes sense.
Lexlee Overton 00:21:44 Yeah, I think, you know. So the cold plunge does something different on our system, but it actually is a it is a is it is a bolt of energy. But it's also, you know, it brings in because it brings in some adrenaline cortisol. Right. So I think that some times sometimes we think just like when I was telling you that one of my clients is like, well, I don't know, I actually do better when I'm under the deadline, I get more work done. You think you do you think that's going to you then that, gives you more energy. But it's really because you're, with these adrenaline and cortisol that's spiking so that you have that.
Lexlee Overton 00:22:27 But that actually is very draining on the system. So when someone comes to me in, one of the things they're complaining about is the inability to sleep. I know that they're living and that part of the nervous system of fight or flight because cortisol spikes and dumps in a tire system are long lasting. So if you can't fall asleep, you have the inability to stay to sleep. I'm telling you, that is a result of what you think sometimes feels good to the system, but it's, you know, because it's giving you the umph, the energy to get through it is actually very draining.
Tyson Mutrux 00:22:58 You know what's interesting? I just it's interesting that we're talking about this because I just listened to a podcast with Andrew Huberman and Chris Williamson, and they were talking about cortisol. And we have this view that cortisol is bad, but you actually there is healthy cortisol that you should have. And you're, you're as you start to wake up in the morning, you're as you're sleeping, you start to get more and more cortisol.
Tyson Mutrux 00:23:19 That's actually what wakes you up and having a little bit of cortisol like, from like, you know, something stressful like working out in the morning is really, really beneficial. Afternoon cortisol, however, is really bad. And I think that's a really interesting thing how you can sort of game your day like maybe artificially almost injecting some cortisol, some stressors into your and your early morning and try to avoid those stressors in the afternoon. I think that's all that's kind of really, really interesting.
Lexlee Overton 00:23:50 I listened to that same podcast that was really it's really fascinating because I love to work out in the morning. It gives me so much energy, but sometimes I like to do it in the evening because it's a stressor. And then I'm like, oh, wait, but he's right. That is sort of a a cortisol. Like, I hadn't thought of it like that. So, it is so it's about structuring your day when we say these practices, there are things that you can do that will give you more energy.
Lexlee Overton 00:24:16 But then there are there are ways to reset your system so that you can recover. So cold plunge gives you energy, right? working out in the morning. Huberman talks a lot about, you know, getting the sunlight first and first, you know, 15 to 20 minutes that you're awake, and, the sun's not up when I wake up because I'm a morning from very early morning person, but getting it as soon as you can gives a natural cortisol. But our problem is, is that we are so stimulated all the time, and most of us are living in a chronic, low anxiety state, and we never shift to the recovery part of the system. And so that's why you want to not just think about not working out, intensely in the afternoon. But what are the things that you can do that can restore. So things like having like the breathing practices, the easiest one, a gratitude practice, very simple. Three minutes of gratitude writing will shift your system into recovery mode, because gratitude has been proven scientifically to be a restorative emotion.
Lexlee Overton 00:25:26 So if we're living in a motion from moment to moment, you want to be thinking about what's your emotional home? Is it one that normally drains you? Like when most people lawyers I talked to say anxiety. What is an emotional state that you can learn to tap into in the practices to do that? So there's things like gratitude practices. doing Heart Math Institute puts a lot of information out about the impact of emotions on performance. And they talk about doing a simple practice, and we can all do it. Right now, when I'm talking about bringing awareness to the center of your chest and then just following your breath in and out of your heart space and then slowing it down, and then just doing a minute of gratitude while you follow your breath. That practice will shift your system scientifically from the part of the nervous system that's spinning energy into the part of the system that's conserving it, and it will bring you into a coherent state. So let's bring it into being a leader in a team. What if you took it's a great way to start meetings to ask people to share a win, right? What's going great? What's something we could say you accomplish? You're immediately shifting people in to that part of the nervous system.
Lexlee Overton 00:26:43 Just by changing the story of how you start the meeting, which also creates this collaborative energy with the group that is sharing that, which then puts us in a collaborative energy as we tap into talking about more substantive, matters with clients. So that helps us to be in the problem solving part of our brain and more creative.
Tyson Mutrux 00:27:08 That's how we do our sorry. That's that's how we do our huddle every morning as we start with a win. And it's always really helpful. I, I'm glad you're this is actually where I wanted to go next. I'm glad you brought this up because talk about how leaders internal state whether that's calm, whether that's reactive, whatever. how that actually shows up in in their team.
Lexlee Overton 00:27:30 so When we're talking about every moment. I'm in an emotional state, okay? And whatever state I'm in, you can pick up from me. And science has shown this that our nervous systems pick up with the nervous systems of other people, of what's going on with them. So when I was trying cases, I just thought, that I used to say I could just read people really well, now, what I know about neuroscience and emotional states, I know that we actually really do respond to the nervous systems of other people.
Lexlee Overton 00:28:06 I did this, really fun thing with my teenager a couple of years ago. He has a chocolate lab, and, you know, she can go crazy and I can take and put my hands on key parts of her body, which could correspond to us, too. That had to do with their nervous system and literally just send a little bit of calm. And so I had him roll her up and she's running around the room and she's going crazy. And then I called her over to me, and I did this, and I just breathed. And I became really, really calm. And she just melted in a puddle. And he said, how did you do that? I said, well, actually, that's something you want to do right before you start a test, right? You want to like tap into being really calm. So I taught him a breathing practice and how to do that. So heart math that I mentioned before that's done all this study on emotions and physiology did this really interesting, experiment.
Lexlee Overton 00:29:01 And you know, we all know like you can you can walk in a room and if two people are having an argument and they, they become quiet and you don't hear what they're saying, but you can pick up the energy that something's happening in here, right? so what is actually happening is that if you're really anxious, then your heart rate variability, which is different than just heart rate, it's like measuring the differences between the speed up and the slowdown of the heart heartbeats. So the heart rate, when they can measure heart rate variability. And you can see when it when it's very when you're in a very coherent restorative state, it's really consistent waves and your brain is doing the same thing. Okay. So they taught people they did a research study where they taught participants to do the technique that I just described to you, where you do heart focused breathing and you do gratitude because it's a very fast way to get your heart rate variability to become coherent. So you become in this restorative energetic state.
Lexlee Overton 00:30:03 And they put they took four people. Three of those people had been taught to do that method. One person didn't have a clue what was going on. They put them all in a room together, and they hooked them up to heart monitors that are measuring heart rate variability, variability. When they start, all four of them are incoherent. They signal to the three that know the practice to do the heart focused breathing. They do the heart focused breathing and and when their heart rate variability on their monitors starts to become coherent, the fourth one does and the fourth person doesn't know anything that's going on. So back to your question. If I show up and I am really grounded and calm and centered, then I impact the person that's with me. I can help them. They automatically will pick that for me. If I am very anxious. I don't even have to speak. You will pick that up from me. energetically, it's just because our nervous systems and that that experiment is showing that our nervous systems respond to the nervous systems of other people, just like that lab did to what my nervous system was doing to hers.
Lexlee Overton 00:31:17 So I use this not just with when we think about leaders showing up calm and grounded. You help your team to become more coherent and coherency in a team always implies collaboration, harmony and efficient use of energy. And if we're in efficient use of energy, we're higher performing, less mistakes, less errors, faster response times able to creatively problem solve. When we're incoherent, we don't have the access to that. So the one thing I do know is that, that impacts not just with your team. It it helps when you're one on one with a client who's very anxious, if you can stay calm, you will impact them. If you become anxious with them. Oh, then we're off to the races, right? In a courtroom. It's very. It's a power tool for a trial lawyer to know that if you can stay grounded and centered, you're the most powerful person in the room, because we unconsciously want part of that. I want to follow the person who's grounded and calm, the person who is anxious And we could say triggered.
Lexlee Overton 00:32:28 But anxious is someone who I unconsciously will withdraw from. So I think it's a it is a superpower for us as not just as leaders. But if you're a lawyer and you're trying to impact others, it it it will people will more likely follow you. They're more likely to be collaborative. They will connect. If you're connected to me, we work better together. That's how it brings it all back into a as a leader.
Tyson Mutrux 00:32:56 So it's funny that it took me a while to learn that about myself, but I, I started to recognize that if I were, if I go into a hearing, worked up and pissed off about something, and I and I and I sort of react that way, I, I will more likely than not lose that hearing on whatever motion that is. But so I have sort of taught myself to go in even though my get worked out about maybe I'm pissed off at the other side, whatever it may be, but I'll sort of I'll force myself to remain calm, and I'll keep my the tone of my voice low, even though internally I might be fighting something back.
Tyson Mutrux 00:33:28 But I have noticed that I do get far better success whenever I've remained calm. I let the other side get worked up and I hope that they get worked up. And it's. I can just tell you from my own anecdotal experience that that is spot on, that anytime I'm calm and I and I teach our associates the same thing, don't get worked up. Just go in calm. Remain calm whenever you like. I just did this last week. There's a motion I should have easily lost and I just went in. The other side was really worked up. The judge sided with us and it was. I never should have won the motion, should have never won it, but just remained.
Lexlee Overton 00:34:04 And it's it's the remaining calm one that people like I just said, people are more drawn to you, right? They'll listen to you more in that state and that might be part of it. The other thing that happens, Tyson, is that when you're in that state and you stay coherent because scientifically that's what's happening within your system, then you're able to be in the part of the brain that actually can give you the creative.
Lexlee Overton 00:34:27 Out of the box argument. So all of us can relate to being in some situation, a conversation or argument, etc., whether it's in the courtroom or with your spouse. And a couple of hours later when you're taking a shower, you're like, darn, why didn't I think of saying that? Well, you didn't think of saying that because you couldn't access that part of your brain when you were in the state. That is the other part of the nervous system when the people are really worked up. Yeah, I learned that. If the other side is really anxious and arrogant and aggressive, that actually I'm ahead of them now. When I first started practicing law, I just saw there were a lot of very angry males on the other side. But actually, I know now that when people are in that aggressive response, they're actually in the fight or flight part of their nervous system, and they're they're not as powerful that you can be as if you say centered, you know, and you can do it simple.
Lexlee Overton 00:35:19 The more you do the daily practices, then in real time, when you're in those moments, You can your you can, you can anchor into your system quickly to switch into that part of your nervous system which is coherent. And like when I say daily practices, I'm not, again, not long term, but daily breathing practices and gratitude like that simple practice that I just described is one of the most powerful ways. Because then when you're in the courtroom and you're in that argument, you literally are practicing the breathing practice that no one can see that is keeping you calm where they're while they're going crazy. it's also very powerful to teach your your clients this when they testify or witnesses because it helps them to stay centered, to be able to answer questions and have the full picture as opposed to just the immediate threat when we're in that part of the nervous system.
Tyson Mutrux 00:36:11 Yeah. I'll go I'll actually go through an exercise with my, my clients where I'll prep them for a deposition or for trial testimony about, like how to control their heart rate, how to control their breathing, all of that.
Tyson Mutrux 00:36:21 It's because and that's it. I mean, most clients have never been through any sort of training like that. They've never been on the stand before. They've never been deposed. And so giving them those tools is really, really important. I do want to shift gears a little bit a little bit more. Back to the team performance. What do you think are some of the biggest mistakes that law firm owners make whenever they're trying to fix team performance?
Lexlee Overton 00:36:47 Well, it depends on what's going on. I think that sometimes we get really pushed into metrics and analyzing metrics instead of approaching that. Leadership is really about knowing how to motivate and manage humans, right. So we have to learn how to lead people. It starts first with having awareness of yourself and who you are and who you are as you show up. and so there is a difference between the skill set of being a really good lawyer and being a really good leader. so it, it, I do think that one of the things that we make a big mistake on is just pushing people harder, expecting more without giving them the tools to actually to know how to perform well.
Lexlee Overton 00:37:37 and there are some statistics that show that what really causes Teams to lose people is because they don't feel seen, that it's not a culture where they're communicated to they're seen as humans and not just generators of, of, work product or billable hours. we have to learn to bring in the that we are dealing with people. And so we want to learn how to, to to lead and motivate people based upon purpose and alignment with their strengths and feeling like they belong to something bigger than just. And it's not about money, right?
Tyson Mutrux 00:38:27 Yeah. I think that, like Tesla and SpaceX, those are like really interesting case studies to me because if you look at. Elon Musk, he seems to push his people really hard. And but it seems like he has the great culture retention is extremely high and I don't quite. And because I agree with everything you're saying and I think that you're spot on, I wonder what it is internally and I just don't know. I wish I knew more about how they operate because it seems like the culture is great internally.
Tyson Mutrux 00:38:55 Retention super high. The performance is extremely high. I just wonder how they're able to do that when they're being pushed so hard. Do you have any insight on that?
Lexlee Overton 00:39:04 I think that part of it is, is that they're they're actually looking for people that are a fit, not just upon skill set, but behaviorally. So if you put someone in a position that requires Constant shifting variety, multitasking, and you have someone who actually is wired for more structure and a slower pace that they'll fail. They'll be miserable. They won't like it then. And that will that will impact the others that are around them. And they'll leave. Right. That's a simple example we're often looking for when we're helping teams to hire in. We are looking at not just do they have the skill set, the knowledge, but do they have the behavioral fit into what they're asking to be asked to do? So I am not a detailed focus person now. Can I be detail focused? Yes, but I am very much more better to be flexible and just let me do my thing.
Lexlee Overton 00:40:04 But if I have to come in and have to be, if I have to work with numbers, I would be terrible because it's not how I'm naturally wired for that kind of attention and focus. But we're often hiring people in our teams, like paralegal support staff that need to be really detailed oriented, but you hire them in and you don't have clear processes. They'll fail. They also they'll leave because they'll be unhappy. So that's one thing, making sure that you have the right behavioral fit. The other thing Tyson, is, is that to build a culture, you have to have and you have to lead the values of what you expect, what you want in the standards. And you hold that, but you hire based upon that. So sometimes when I talk to leaders about what are your values that you're reinforcing, they just sort of glaze over, like that's fluff. It's actually the thing that builds your culture. So you should be really clear on what those values are. And you should be asking people when you're hiring are ways to see if they're aligned with those.
Lexlee Overton 00:41:01 And then you're constantly reinforcing that in your team that builds the culture of connection and collaboration. And and that's where we see where teams where their people stay for long terms and become more high performing because of it.
Tyson Mutrux 00:41:18 With regards to alignment. Do you have any opinions on. not necessarily about the the test themselves, but like on assessments, like Colby, like disc all those sort of personality type profiles?
Speaker 4 00:41:30 Yeah, I think they're helpful.
Lexlee Overton 00:41:32 Yeah. No, I'm sorry, I didn't mean it. Was there more you just opinions on it.
Tyson Mutrux 00:41:36 And I just want to get your thoughts. Yeah. Generally.
Speaker 4 00:41:38 So yeah. No, I think they're helpful.
Lexlee Overton 00:41:40 And when I started doing team performance for a long time, I was just focusing in on leaders, because I was so obsessed with how do we get better at what we do? Because I burned out so young, you know, like 31 walked out of a courtroom thinking I was having a heart attack. Right. And it really I was just totally depleted.
Lexlee Overton 00:41:59 And my my body was starting to respond to that. and so it set me on a path 25 years ago of how do I figure out how do I do this and thrive in it, you know? So I do think that when I started looking at going from leaders asking me, well, can you work with my team? I started looking at all of those. And I do think that they're helpful. They're the things that help you figure out behaviorally whether or not someone fits into what you're asking them to do. and the one that we use is predictive index. I became certified in that one because I really loved the way that it showed more about how a team collectively that their energy is the behavioral style is collectively, and therefore that team collectively has certain strengths. But we also have certain weaknesses based upon how we're wired and then looking at our strategy and how to cover that, strategically, because, you know, we all have strengths, but we also all have blind spots. That's true in a team, too, when they come together collectively.
Lexlee Overton 00:43:01 So I think that that can be helpful when we use it. It's very, eye opening to team members to see how, they are wired differently than someone else. Like, I like to process out loud. Right. I use a lot of words. I love to talk it through. I have a, you know, a partner who is. He is very, more reflective. He does not like to process out loud. He actually said to me yesterday something that happened and I was dying to know. And I was like, how did that go? He's like, you know, I want a little bit of time to think about it, and then I'll come back to you. I was like, I know because you like to think about things. I would just be talking to you about it. And then I would come to my conclusion. But some of us do like to process out loud. That's a work style. That's a decision making style where some of us like to just think about, and so this kind of behavioral, you know, we use it for those kind of things.
Lexlee Overton 00:43:54 It's really eye opening to see how you're wired, how someone differently is wired. That brings a natural conflict. So I'm a person in one of the drives that predictive index looks at is, is a drive that they call the dominants drive. People who have high dominance drive light to influence people and events. Right. So as a trial lawyer, I like to influence the outcome of what's going to happen, right? I have a high drive. That means in my work I like independence, I like competition, I'm competitive. I'm often competitive with myself. That also comes across as assertive I, and I don't necessarily need to bring someone in to make a decision with me. Someone who is wired opposite of me, who that low drive dominance also has incredible strengths. They're very collaborative, very harmonious. They don't like competition. and if I am, if I'm working with people, I'm also very fast paced. So if you put my fast paced with my independence assertiveness, I can come across as aggressive to people that are wired opposite of me, who are slower pace, more structure, who want harmony.
Lexlee Overton 00:45:07 So just naturally how we're wired can bring in conflict in our work if we don't understand it. So we use, you know, I think Colby and I've looked at all of them, I think they're all they all have some strengths to them. But we use that for people to understand how they're naturally wired and how that can cause natural friction. But also how do we have conversations around that to help us to work better together?
Tyson Mutrux 00:45:29 I pulled up the predictive index because I, I, I'd never heard of it before. This is the first. It's it's weird. I don't think anyone else has mentioned it on the show before. and so I just it is kind of.
Speaker 4 00:45:42 Interesting.
Lexlee Overton 00:45:43 For you to I'll send you a link to take the assessment, and then I'll, I'll send you a little out and I'll send you your results.
Tyson Mutrux 00:45:50 Yeah, that'd be great. That'd be fantastic. Because it's it's it's really, it's really it's really cool. I, I'm just kind of clicking through it. I think it's really awesome.
Tyson Mutrux 00:45:58 So you do that and then, what I'll do is I'll do a separate episode on the results of that, and.
Speaker 4 00:46:05 Yeah, we can, we can send.
Lexlee Overton 00:46:06 The link to your whole team, and I can show you where everybody the what they call naturally lives in the world of work. It's really interesting. it's a very good. It's a it's a very good team bonding tool, and it opens up communication in a different way of how we can work better together. I think it's important to you, though, on hiring. We use it for hiring in teams because you as the leader could take a different one, different than your individual assessment. You take a survey that's about 20 minutes long where you're looking at the skill set and also the behavioral style of the ideal person. In this position, what would they be wired like? So is it fast paced or is it one of the more structure and with slower pace? Is it one that requires a lot of communication? Is it a front facing like, you know, a sales person or your receptionist, your intake person? Or is it one that allows for introversion like paralegal, analytical, working with numbers, etc. and details.
Lexlee Overton 00:47:05 And so it creates a target.
Speaker 4 00:47:07 For those times.
Lexlee Overton 00:47:08 And then you give it to candidates who apply and you can see pretty quickly behaviorally, will they do well in this position. And I have seen thousands of them now. And it is so on point. And it's a little mind boggling because it really only takes less than five minutes to take the assessment that it could be so accurate. but it's really powerful and it helps with when you have, you know, 50 candidates, 50 resumes, it quickly ranks them, you know, scoring really well into the target is a ten. I don't interview anybody below a seven because I've been using it for years. I know how good it is, unless it's just someone who has an exceptional resume. And I'm like, let me see on these particular drives, can we move it a little bit? You know, yeah. So it's very helpful.
Tyson Mutrux 00:47:57 All right. So the last thing I want to ask you about and then we'll wrap things up, but talk about supporting the human behind the employee.
Tyson Mutrux 00:48:03 Like talk about that part of things.
Speaker 4 00:48:06 Yeah.
Lexlee Overton 00:48:07 So seeing people as humans one that I think that the number one thing that you can do is teach them performance by teaching through wellbeing and looking at a whole picture of individuals for for performance. And it's simple things like when we were just talking about how you open your morning huddle with what's a win? Also, what's getting in your way is a really great question or what's really challenging for you this week that helps to support the human side and not just see it as I need you to to crank out this. Right. looking at people as, as a whole, not just their skill set and what they can do for you, but knowing who they are, you know, my team and I tried to teach leaders to do this is is you really want to know another thing that really drives performance and culture is to see what motivates your people and what are their goals for growth. Because people, people want to grow. And so knowing that you support that, that human side, the natural instinct that we have to want to be better, that you're looking as a leader to support that.
Lexlee Overton 00:49:16 So, like with my team, I when I hire someone, I go to have them go through an exercise of their five year goals of different areas in life. I want to be building a business that can support that, not that. But, you know, and I just had one team member who, got to take a dream trip to see her sister she hadn't seen in three years because they live in different countries. And she had been building through this. I knew it was a goal, right? It was really fun to see it happen, but that brings in collaboration and supporting people as humans. I think as our our job as leaders is to help people to be the best that they can be, help people to do, to be good people doing great work.
Tyson Mutrux 00:49:59 I love it. I think it's a great answer. all right, so mind over law. Com helping lawyers go through, go from break down to breakthrough. If people want to get in touch with you lexically, how do they do so?
Lexlee Overton 00:50:11 They can do that by going to the website.
Lexlee Overton 00:50:13 I'm on all social media platforms under Leslie Overton. You can message me. Their email is Leslie at Leslie Overton Dotcom so easy to to find me. Yeah.
Tyson Mutrux 00:50:25 Yes. I've got all your socials pulled up, so that's that's great. I was going to mention those of you did so fantastic. Great conversation. Really appreciate this. I think this is one of those episodes that forces people to sort of look in the mirror a little bit and how they, you know, handle them their own lives, how they handle their employees. But I think, I think we need that every once in a while as lawyers. So I really appreciate you coming on, holding up the mirror a little bit to me and others. And, and the information you shared was fantastic. Really appreciate it.
Lexlee Overton 00:50:52 Thank you so much for having me.