Hey, welcome everybody
to The Writing Glitch.
It's Cheri Dotterer, your classroom coach.
Today, we're going to dive into
simple word books by Cigdem Knebel.
She is We need to start again
because it's simple words books.
Simple words books.
Yeah.
Okay.
Did I say your last name right?
Yeah.
Hey, welcome everybody to
The Writing Glitch Podcast.
I am Cheri Dotterer, your classroom coach.
Today, we are going to be
talking about simple word books.
And they are written by a publisher
friend of mine named Cigdem Knebel.
She is, has a child who
brought her into this.
So we'll learn a little bit more
about that story as we progress
through the interview today.
And She now has a publishing company
where she is helping other publishers
of decodable books publish their books.
So we're going to have to dive in and see
what more about what she has to offer.
But before we do, let's take a
moment and hear from our sponsor.
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All students have access to the
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Today they are offering an ebook
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All you need to do is look in the
show notes and click the button and
it'll take you right to the Why?
The pizza problem?
Well, the pizza problem really is taking
pattern recognition and aligning it
with squares, and it's teaching you
how to convert what you see in visuals
to what it looks like in mathematics.
So hopefully that makes sense to you.
Let's get on with, oh gosh,
so let's get on with the show.
Cigdem, tell us a little bit about
yourself, how you end up where you are,
and And what is this publishing company?
So that's like a loaded
question, but go ahead.
Tell us a little bit about
what's going on in your life.
Sure.
And first of all, thank you
for having me on the podcast.
I'm really excited.
I love collaborating with you.
I love the things you do.
Thank you so much again.
The publishing company started
as a little project in our home
when my son was diagnosed with
dyslexia at age six and started the.
OG based program to learn
how to read and write.
And after a while, he was doing really
great, and he said, I'm ready to read
chapter books like my friends do.
And we couldn't find
any that were decodable.
I didn't understand the
word decodable back then.
I wanted something that was an engaging
story, looked like a big kid book, and
used the words that he was able to read.
And I couldn't find any.
I started writing for him, and then
there was a lot of interest around it.
I started publishing my own
books, and it became such a big
project, and we started a company.
Then it turned into an even bigger
company, where now we have Authors
from, you know, different backgrounds
that are publishing with us.
Anything decodable is under Simple Words,
and we have non decodable words under
MacCoral, which would be, like, books
like Amir Baraka's Undiagnosed, Peggy
Stern's STL Guide, Teacher's Guide.
Handbook and and many others that
are stories that are worth telling.
We need a lot of decodable
books in the market.
Millions and millions.
Different genres, different reading
levels and I'm happy to bring, you
know, whatever I can bring to this
world through my publishing company.
So your company has two
different departments.
One is decodable and one is non decodable.
Yes.
And the non decodable is all
about neurodiversity as well.
Yes.
So we are telling stories of like
inspiring stories of dyslexic and, I know
biographies or some of them are fiction
books that are based on their lives
because I think I believe that deflected
children need to really see themselves
in these books and in an encouraging way.
They are.
We, we know they all struggle,
but in that moment, they don't
see what the future would be.
And most of the future is, you
know, if you get the right support.
Right.
Emotional support, especially.
You know, the future is bright, but, you
know, when they see people that are not
like them in the books, they don't relate
that, oh, I can be that successful person.
So, we try to find you know, a
great diverse group of authors who
tell their stories so children can
find themselves in these stories.
And the decodable books are all
fiction, and You know, anywhere from
like animals to, you know, we have a
few dyslexic characters per request
of children saying we want to have you
know, different genres, we have fantasy,
adventure, realistic fiction, sci fi.
So I try to write in a very wide genre
so that that first book kids pick
up is not just the right level for
them, but also the right interest.
And we hear that, you know, once a child
finds that right match and starts reading,
after the first five, six pages, they
don't drop the book because they are able
to successfully read without frustration.
And that was my goal and I'm really,
really happy to get that feedback
from hundreds of thousands of people.
That is amazing that you were able
to take something that was happening
with your child and and bring it to a
monetized position in your in your life.
Now, according to everything that I read
about the science of reading, decoding
it, they follow a scope and sequence.
Yeah, which is that organized fashion
of how Kids are learning to write.
They start out with consonant
vowel consonant sounds and move on.
How have you incorporated that scope
and sequence into these decodable books?
So let me explain what scope
and sequence is for those who
might not really understand it.
So scope are the skills that
are used and sequence is the
order that they're used in.
So as you said, you know, there are
although there are very different
combinations of scope and sequences
are there, it's almost always
they start with short vowels.
And then diagraph blends, depending on,
you know, the program are introduced.
And then it goes up to more
advanced, you know, you never
teach control R or silent E before,
for example, blends or diagraphs.
So there's a logic to it.
What we tried to do is we looked
at a lot of the mainstream programs
and see what they were doing.
So our books are You Fly a Line and Wilson
Inspired, you know, Barton Inspired.
So we have a lot of different programs,
as I said, we looked at and we said,
what are the common denominators?
When we are focusing on a single skill,
for example, the decodable readers
we have by Jody Rider, we try to look
at the, that scope and sequence and
up after, like and they introduce the
physical rule and ck CK diagram graph.
Then we look into the and we try
to use only one specific skill.
So even if a reader
doesn't know a specific.
Wowl team, that might be in a book
that is previous to the current
one they're trying to learn.
They, because we don't use it in
that book, as much as we try to be
very transparent on our scope and
sequence, so they can see that, oh,
we can still pick that book, even
though they had another rule before.
So that is the sequence that
we are trying to focus on.
The first major you know, beginner
phonics, and then we add one at a time.
Beautiful.
I'm glad to see that your books are
following the scope and sequence.
Do you have any contracts
specifically with school districts
that they have your books in?
Or are teachers buying them individually?
How is it working?
I would say probably both.
We have seen a lot of teachers maybe just
buy one or two books, kind of try out
if they are a good match or not, but our
biggest customers are school districts
and Board of Education, where they buy
in bulk, you know, they, they try to
buy it per teacher or per classroom, so
usually a set of six and multiples of six.
And and depending on, you know, the.
Age range, I'll say, but I will,
you know, I do not want to use age
or grade aligned with our books.
I would like to be clear that our books
are aligned with the skills that readers
are taught, but the interest level.
So, you know, a book that might be
short vowels could be an interest
level of a kindergarten or an interest
level of maybe a second grader.
And of course you know, we will say
for interest levels, depending on the
title they choose, we are anywhere
from first grade to you know, middle
school, and unfortunately some high
schools also buy our books as well,
because they do have students that are
reading at a, as they call it, like a
second or third grade reading level.
Although, you know, I do not like to
use the reading Levels per, per grade.
Because again, it's the skill that they
know, it doesn't have to be a grade level.
Correct.
Now this is the writing glitch.
So we have been talking a
lot about reading and books.
How do your books
translate to writing tasks?
So I believe writing and reading go hand
in hand because if you can't decode.
I think it's harder to encode.
And also, there's that belief, right?
Like, to be able to fluently read
something gives that automatic, okay
being able to read and then write
comes with automaticity as well.
So so once a reader is able to read
a book like ours, for example, a
book like this, a chapter book that
is a big kid book, they're also
reading confidence increases and that
confidence carries over to writing.
You know, they start seeing that they are
working so hard and they're getting the
fruits, not waiting, you know, two, three
years to be able to read a chapter book.
And I think that is also important.
And all, all skills that
are around learning.
And a lot of kids do struggle
with writing and spelling,
even if they can actually read.
But it just, I think, gives them that
extra boost saying, I worked hard, I
could read, now I have to work hard,
and I will be able to write as well.
And I always remind people,
neurologically, reading is one
neurological path, writing is another
neurological path, and typically the
reading gets created first, the writing
is lagging on behind, and it takes
longer for writing to be accomplished.
You had said something that
sparked something in my brain.
My thought process.
And that was aligning what
you said to the word impact.
You were talking about making things
adaptable and including all the students.
Impact it.
In my world stands for inclusion,
metacognition, perseverance, adaptability,
confidence, and transcendence.
You mentioned confidence.
It helps build the confidence.
By building confidence and creating
these adaptable resources, we are
building inclusion into the classroom.
I kind of went backwards in my alpha,
in my word there, but it all blends
together and creates the outcome you.
And that journey for the student
that is going to be successful.
I, I, I agree with that a hundred percent.
And also because our books are
decodable, we have comprehension
books that comes with each title.
And, you know, if I may ask a
question for the student to, you
know, make sure that they understand
and comprehend the text, which is
really the ultimate goal of reading.
You know, you can be a
great reader, fast reader.
If you're not understanding
what you're reading, then
there's really no value in it.
So when they have to write, and we
say, you know, they don't have to write
the answers, they can orally give the
answers as well, but when it comes to
that point where they will be practicing
spelling and writing, then because
the story is decodable, they also will
be able to answer the questions in a
decodable way, which are, again, like
using the words, the spelling patterns
that they probably have learned early on.
Versus, you know, having to use
very difficult words because
the book is a traditional text.
So I think that also supports the
writing that they can actually practice
with lower like a, or earlier, I
shouldn't say lower, but the earlier
skills in, in writing that they learn.
And and again, this is all about
practice, to build that fluency, to
build that muscle stronger and stronger.
And also, you know, while
they're succeeding it, right.
It's that success, that accomplishment
that I think fuels their desire and, you
know, their, their strength to continue.
The long journey, it's not a short
journey, unfortunately, for many kids
who struggle, but, but there, there
is a success path and and it just have
to continually you know, work on that
and sometimes very hard to ask these,
you know, younger readers and writers
to be that strong after a whole day
at school continue with the homework,
the tutoring that comes with it.
And, and I know our goal is to make
that just a little bit easier to have
less scars and have less frustration
and more success and fun throughout
the journey as much as possible.
Very interesting.
So you also then touched on that
whole journey, which is transcendence.
It's that journey from the
beginning of school to the end
of school and lifelong learning.
It's like, it's not like when you hit
12th grade, you're going to stop learning.
You're always learning
every day of your life.
Even now.
Those senior years of life,
which I'm headed to right now.
And those senior years are where we
kind of shift our focus and we become
a different, a different person.
And that's where, where I'm at these
days, which we've talked about.
I had a question.
Take your time, right?
No, I know what it was.
You had talked about comprehension.
Is there a teacher, a teacher companion
to the books that you're providing?
Yes.
So our chapter books come with
a comprehension workbook that
ha that is the downloadable, and
it has three different version.
One of them is a workbook version
where the question is there, and
then they have a space allocated
for the student to write.
And then we also have
just a question list.
It's the identical questions, but for
those students who might not be ready
to write yet then, you know, they would
be verbally answering the questions.
And then there's another.
Teacher version, which is the answer
key, because, you know, there's so many
books and teachers don't really always
remember what the answer might be,
so they have an answer answer key for
the comprehension workbooks as well.
On top of that, we also have on our
website, free downloadable phonics
workbooks that are all decodable,
so all the words that are there are
decodable based on the scope, and
there's a sequence, but we try to,
again, keep every every phonics rule
individual, so that they can be used
at what, wherever they are, that
student is based on their learning.
And because they're decodable they
can individually do it, and it's
it's again practicing writing.
So, occupational therapist,
did you catch that?
On her website, there's a space that
you could download questions that might
be going alongside the work that the
teacher is doing in the classroom.
So if she has one of the books that
Shignam's company is publishing,
you can download the workbooks
that go along with the book.
Have those available as resources
that you can work on answering those
questions in occupational therapy
and you can do it those three ways.
You can either scribe it for
them and have them copy it.
You could do a dictation where
you're using a tool like Otter.
ai that will give you a transcript
in an audio file and they can use
that dictation that they just spoke.
And then write it down on the paper, or,
this is what you said, now write a new
sentence, and generate new sentences.
So, OTs, you can have a resource, and
I believe you just said it was free,
that goes along with the textbook.
All of our workbooks
are free on our website.
So, What a powerful tool is to have
something that you can quick go
have access to, even at the spur
of the moment, as long as you can't
have that copy machine nearby.
You, even if you're in the middle
of a session, you could look it up.
You could even use your computer
to help the student by having
the questions available to them.
So, consider that collaboration in your
classroom where you're taking the book,
the text that the student is reading, and
you're building and helping the teacher
by working on their writing skills in OT.
And if you look at our the free phonics
workbooks that I mentioned, we also
have games and puzzles in there.
You know, I, it is it is frustrating,
I think, for Beginner reader that
is struggling to really master
the writing portion to get a
word search puzzle, for example.
My kids loved it, but only if they
could actually read the words and ours
are decodable based on, again, the
spelling patterns they have learned.
And because they know what words
they're looking for, it's not just
a letter, now it becomes a word.
And I think that is what that the pathway
we want to really strengthen in the brain.
To look for not just
letters, but for words.
You know, continue writing not just
letters, but words and sentences.
Because that's how reading really
starts and how writing continues.
You know, you don't just write
letters, you write chunks of them
that are meaningful because there's
a vocabulary attached to it.
And then with that vocabulary
comprehension comes.
So we try to make, you know, fun
games that are decodable that
typically, you know, you find out
in the, you know, at the, at those
worksheets that are not decodable.
Like, you know, if you look at crosswords
puzzles that are not decodable,
they cannot do it on their own.
And even though you think it's
easy because it is put in a
childish format, it's still, if
it's not decodable, it is not easy.
It was just mumble jumble
for them to read and write.
So you have things like crossword
puzzles and word searches and
cryptograms and that kind of puzzle?
Yes, we have those.
I mean, we of course start with more
you know, textbook like, but for each
rule, we also have some fun ones.
We, we have word searches, cross puzzles,
and, you know, like braille codes.
Number codes where you know, they
would have to kind of find you
know, one word, but then they have
to kind of read the whole word
and the sentence that they create.
I love it.
I hope that you, the occupational
therapist, find that as a resource that
you can utilize in your practice in
outside the classroom, but if you're
collaborating inside the classroom,
like we teach in tier one interventions,
that you can pull those resources
to make it easier on your students.
Shigdum, can you tell us a little
bit about where to find your website?
You're welcome to share it.
Sure.
Our website is Simple Words Books.
Let me We can probably edit this one up.
Here is our website, Simple Words Books.
If you go to our scope,
I really think this is
where the magic happens.
So you can see like our most advanced
book is intermediate chapter book, and
then we have early levels, and I just
want to kind of give you a little bit
of an example of how to make use of this
page, because I think it is very important
that someone who comes to our website
understand if these are the right books.
For the reader, you know, we, we want to
make sure that it is emphasized enough
in this decodable world that nothing
is 100 percent decodable if there are
words there that the reader cannot read.
So, for example, Fox Sound, we say
our our, this title is 98 percent
decodable because we would say the
reader has learned all these rules.
Maybe I can make it a little bit bigger to
make it easier for the viewers to see it.
And if the the reader has not
learned all this all this and
they're only learned short vowels,
then this book will only be 34.
4 percent decodable.
So they have to really understand where
that reader is, what they can read, to
make sure that this is a success for them.
And if you look at the details, you
can just click on scope and sequence,
we have a very detailed analysis.
This is easy for parents, this is
easy for professional teachers and
occupational therapists to understand.
At that level they are at, we would think
they would know these irregular words.
And you can see in each title
how many times they are used.
And then you can see the short vowels,
the blends, and you can see, like, the
percentage of it, and which ones are used.
And are they ready to read
these words without frustration?
And I think that is really important.
And if you look at the words
that are out of scope for us for
this book, would be silently.
It would be words like like and time.
So there's only two of them used.
For and her, for controlled
R, which are really easy.
Words for most readers at this level,
but because they're control R, we
still want to be very transparent
and say they're out of scope.
You know, vowel themes, they
weigh out down good feel.
And we do not say these are words that
they should read out of memory because,
or guessing, because that is really
against what decoding is all about.
But if you know these books are
in there, these words are in
there, then you can practice.
Or you can be watching out for these
words if you're reading together.
And and I think this is very important
that you know, this transparency
should be in each decodable book.
And this title, this, this is Fox Hunt.
It has 5, 506 words, and
it's at our novice level.
So a book that's 5, 000 words, how
long does it take a student to read?
Is it?
A typical student.
It really depends and I think on if you
would go by chapters or, you know, their
stamina we have typically say like a
book like this would be maybe like a week
for a student to read, but I have seen
students who are struggling to read and
this is like one of their first chapter
books that they're trying to complete.
And they've done it in like a day,
which is you know, I think that
kind of really blows people's minds
because there, there's a lot of
you know, like a space in there.
And if you can see it, we
try to use short sentences.
Stop sharing your screen
so we can see that better.
Oh, sure.
So if you look at a book like this.
Here you can see there's a lot of
white space in there, there are short
paragraphs, short sentences, and it
doesn't really tire out the reader.
They're not saying, oh my
god, a big sentence is coming,
a big paragraph is coming.
Those are all emotional
challenges that are there.
You know, before they read, they start
getting anxious and nervous because
of the past experiences they have with
the text and books they had to read.
It is also important that
the chapters are short.
You know the first book
we wrote had six chapters.
They were longer.
I mean, when you hear the feedback,
and I see it with my own kids, it's
like, and believe it or not, I actually
still do it to this day, I look at it
when the chapter is ending, because
mentally it just gives me a break point.
I might read 10 chapters, but
knowing, knowing that that chapter
is short, gives me that courage to
continue because I'm dyslexic as
well and I do struggle with these.
Not, and I'm not exactly a
nurse, but I do see the patterns.
And when I look at my kids and I
understand why they're struggling
with things because they're dyslexic,
I said, well, it makes so much sense
now with all the struggles that I
had with reading when I was younger.
And you know, the comprehension and
Some of the still emotional things that
come with reading that I you know, I
had to deal with as an adult as well.
So I put like all those thoughts in it,
in these books, to say what can I make it
so that this is a success for a struggling
reader who had already, you know, not
positive experiences with reading.
And in addition, also at the back of the
book, we have the same word list analysis.
So so you can quickly check.
You don't have to go on the website and
look for the scope and sequence as well.
We have a
Certificate of Accomplishment.
You can download these in
color on our website as well.
I think it is also very important that
we celebrate these accomplishments.
This is a big accomplishment to read
this in a week or two for a lot of kids.
And they need to know that, you
know, what they have accomplished.
is just the beginning and it's, you know,
celebrated every single step of the way.
This is fantastic.
A lot of the things that I have been
trying to share with the world is
how we can integrate those pull out
sessions as whole classroom activities.
I could see this being another instance
where the group, the classroom has done
whatever they're going to do as a whole
classroom, we separate into small groups.
And one of the small groups includes the
specialized service like occupational
therapist or speech therapist.
And we can focus then on those skills
that they need more support on and go
around the room as needed, depending on
what we're doing with all the students.
And believe it or not, gifted students,
kids who are not having trouble with
decoding, who really do see those.
patterns with the words, which is a
lot of times what these students are
missing, that have trouble with decoding.
Even gifted students have
trouble with writing.
So there are things that an OT can do,
even with the higher level students.
Definitely.
So thank you for sharing
your website with us.
Is there anything else that you'd
like to share before we close?
I want to make sure that, you know,
we look this, look at this as a, as a
journey and understand that finding the
right text in our books or others, but
that the right ones are very critical
early on because they are young minds,
they're They're easily telling themselves
stories on, Oh, I'm not good in reading.
Oh, I don't like reading.
Oh, I don't like books.
And, you know, we do want to make sure
they're, you know, fluent readers,
but we really, really focus on as our
vision and values are their life goals.
Lifelong learners, you know, there
will be a lot of technologies out there
in the future where we might say, oh,
do they really need to read or write?
Again, it is not the reading and
writing that maybe is the key, but you
have to be able to read and write to
really survive in a society like ours.
But more importantly, going through
that process, still with your you
know, emotional muscles intact.
And the stories you, you know, they tell
themselves are not the limiting beliefs
that we as adults continue to work on.
So our really, our focus really for
the readers is The emotional well being
supported with you know, reading and
writing that comes with with academics.
This is fantastic.
Can I tell them now or
must I wait even longer?
We are partnering as a team to promote her
decodable books in our new subscription
box series called Relief in 3D.
We've been talking about it
on the Tier 1 interventions.
Podcast, but this is the first time I'm
bringing it up here at The Writing Glitch.
So if you have Students that are
struggling, that have difficulty with
dyslexia, dysgraphia, and dyscalculia,
we have partnered with a math teacher,
and we're partnering with Simple
Word Books to bring you resources
that you can have in your classroom
at a moment's notice.
Plus, we're also providing relief for you.
We have fun things for you.
For Christmas this year, we put out
some fuzzy socks and, and some earrings
for that holiday bash, but every
month there's going to be something
different just for you, the teacher
or the occupational therapist, or the
parent that's helping the students.
So anybody who's out there that
is looking to get more tools.
We are partnering with, with Cigdem's
company so that we can provide
you with her books over time.
So Fox Hunt is one of the first ones
that we are going to be sharing.
So based on what you've learned in this
episode today, you can take that back and
you can take it and use it practically.
Thank you Cigdem for sharing that.
Thank you for allowing me to
be a part of that as well.
It is, I, I've seen the sneak peek.
It is so much fun.
What's in there is quite amazing.
I love it.
And I'm honored to be a part of it.
Thank you so much.
Well, thank you.
I'm, I'm honored that, that you have
agreed to be part of it as well.
Now listeners, remember you were
put here for such a time as this.
Go be awesome, go be brilliant, and
take what you've learned here back
to your classroom and help those kids
extend their journey for a lifetime.
Cigdem, thank you for being here today.
Is there anything that you
want to say in closing?
Again, thank you so much, and if you
have any questions, just contact us.
We have we have the contact
us link on our website.
Or you can email me at kKnebel,
K N E B E L at simplewordsbooks.
com.
And I'll get back to
you with any questions.
I'm always happy to help.
I'm always happy to support and serve.
Thank you so much.
You have a wonderful day, everybody.
