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BDSM for Igniting Erotic Life with Om Rupani
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Love Sex and Leadership podcast where you can discover simple tantric teachings to embody your true power awaken your soul's wisdom and live an inspired life as a natural intuitive and heart centered leader
Aaron: So welcome everyone to, uh, another conversation on love, sex, and leadership. My name is Aaron Kleinerman and I'm very happy to have a friend, a brother, uh, Om Rupani. There's a lot of teaching of the dear friend of mine, Laurie Handlers, and I've known Om for quite a few years.
We're actually, we're both just in a similar men's summit, bringing a lot of this work out into the world, helping brothers out in the world, um, wake the fuck up essentially. And today we'll be discussing igniting the erotic life. And I know Om does a lot of work. In [00:01:00] BDSM and really helping people in that igniting of erotic life.
And yeah, super grateful to have you here and for being here. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, let's just dive right in. You know, we don't know each other too well, but I've, we've seen each other through the, through the years. I think the first question I have is, you know, one of the things I like to talk about on this podcast is this merging of like healthy sexual leadership.
You know, and it takes a certain amount of, um, I should say kahunas to bring in, um, sexuality components, to bring in BDSM and to really like stand strong. And I've seen you through a number of years, really the posts and the things that you bring out into the community have a very, you know, they have a strong edge to it.
And I love that. I love the place to where you communicate from. It really speaks to me very, very clearly. And I love to just hear like a little bit of your journey, like what's got you to the place of wanting to, um, lead and direct and support people, especially on [00:02:00] this route of BDSM.
Om: I would say I would have to give the credit to teachers and the communities that I first reached out to, to learn for my own benefit and for my own personal relationship.
This journey probably started, I don't know, in 2005, six for me. And actually one of my first teachers was Laurie Laurie Handlers. I very much, uh, she's was my first teacher, my first mentor in Tantra. Other wonderful teachers at that time are basically, you know, it's like once you start exploring, basically, yeah, workshop junkies happy to say so in a good way, like, really, like, what else is out there?
Because, you know, we don't learn this stuff at school. There aren't like institutions of learning that you can go join. There's not even like a, It's not like you can go join the Art Students League so I can study art and drawing for three years with these [00:03:00] fine people. It's like you have to find the teachers and take an evening class and take a weekend class, gather information, the teachers you like, go back and learn more from them.
So in the beginning days, it was that process, which I'm sure pretty much everybody in our community did. Has followed. It was Laurie's work. I absolutely adore Barbara Karelis, so it took as many classes with her, and then I found OneTaste, learned the ooming and stroking there, and got tremendous amount from OneTaste, and then I all then slowly discovered, uh, BDSM.
Barbara Karelis was actually one of the wonderful teachers who, Firmly is planted both in Tantra and BDSM, so started taking classes from her, from the other teachers. She was often co teaching with, uh, went to a wonderful event called Dark Odyssey, which is still going on. Uh, which [00:04:00] I've been to several times before, haven't been been there in a few years, but then I'm going now in January.
I'm very excited to be there. We revisiting. It's a great, great meeting ground for people who practice BDSM and who have so much experience and it's a great place to learn. So it's kind of self taught desire started off by wanting to improve my own life. I've been in a very long term relationship and we are in a very happy place right now, but we've been through our ups and downs and certainly as an, as often happens in long term relationship, the fire and the Eros, it did seem to dwindle off over time.
And then it's like, we love our connection. We want to keep doing this. How can we ignite our Eros a little bit more? And I think it's still an ongoing challenge in long term relationships. So all the extra help we can get, I think it's great because I think the partnership and domesticity is not a friend of Eros and partnership.
So [00:05:00] it's a constant journey to say, well, how can we keep bringing the good in? And then, so. It was not like I had any kind of a mission that I'm going to be talking about Eros or even teaching it, just started off as a student for a long time, and then like little by little, like turning it around and like offering evening classes and hour long classes, and the teaching part kind of grew from there.
It really wasn't planned out or anything.
Aaron: Right.
Om: So it's, it's like now, you know, enough that maybe there are other people who can learn from you. So it happened in that kind of a transition. And as far as, you know, truth be told, even this, whatever persona I may have as being, however you want to describe it, I have a bit of a, None of this is like planned or intentional to my, to my, from where I'm coming from, the [00:06:00] best I can do is share what I know to be correct, share it plainly.
So I don't, I don't think I'm ever speaking or writing for effect or to be chargey or to be controversial. I'm like, this is the best. I see, and I think sometimes I think sometimes my delivery can use a little smoothening out and I'm always working on that, but I don't think any material or any ideas that I'm sharing, I'm trying to be controversial.
I'm like, this is the best I know. This is the best I see so far. This is the best I can share with you today.
Aaron: Yeah, beautiful. You know, there's a couple of things you say in there that, um, I'd love to hear further on. And, you know, one of the things I see, especially in this field is more and more, you know, people taking weekends and then, you know, beginning to teach.
And, and I, and I love the evolution of, you know, kind of that journey from student, you know, to teacher. I had many, [00:07:00] many years where I was constantly just taking the next workshop and workshop. And then I remember I had a partner a long time ago that said, you know, You, you don't need to take more like you can start showing up as a teacher.
And I remember just feeling this place of, wow, okay, there's a permission field. And yeah, I'd love to hear some of like the, both the challenges as well as the, you know, the celebrations in that journey from you from, from, from, The student that's learning and learning to really like when was the point when you know, okay?
I'm ready to actually start delivering here
Om: Just tiny tiny steps doing like a evening one hour evening class many times in the beginning even just doing it for free And I think i'm very grateful to one taste And nicole dadone for that that in that environment. I was given opportunity To to hold like evening gatherings in conjunction with other people.
So that was like, there was a first step to like step into some kind of a holding the room space, not even like code teaching, [00:08:00] but there were like evening gatherings and you would kind of lead the group, the conversation. So, and from there really responding to see. Uh, do I have anything to contribute? So it was really very much a feedback loop that if other people think what i'm saying and contributing is useful to them Then going on that and then if other people keep coming to me and saying can you present a little bit to add our event?
Can you do a little presentation? So it was not like again, not like i'm sitting in a room deciding i'm going to do this It's really responding to appetite responding to we have we liked what you said. Can you come present at our thing? So it was really responding to other people calling me out to teach.
It wasn't really by my own initiative. If anything, I was, like, quite shy about.
Aaron: I'm
Om: truly an introvert. I've never had any dreams about being in front of [00:09:00] people. Originally, not really, not really been my temperament. I'd really had to step into it.
Aaron: And was that, was that challenging to kind of move from? It was challenging.
Om: I mean, we both know and love Laurie Handlers. She has wonderful, wonderful and embarrassing stories. She loves to tell about me when we first met, but they are true. I remember when I was in Laurie's class, this was like 2000, maybe seven, eight. And this goes back all the way to my college days. I would know because I, the few friends I had, they would often complain, Oh, you're mumbling.
We can't hear you. We're sitting like across the dining table from me. And they're like, we can't hear you. You're mumbling again.
Aaron: There
Om: was. There very much, uh, there wasn't any desire to hold the room or project or express. If anything, I was like, I'm happy to be the quiet person at the table.
Aaron: And then
Om: it was, it was teachers like Laurie is like, [00:10:00] uh, first of all, you're holding yourself back.
She would probably describe it as a blockage in the fifth chakra.
Aaron: And if you
Om: want to put me on the couch. Yeah, the family I grew up in, my opinion was not wanted. It was like you grew up in an environment where like you didn't express your desires or opinions. It really wasn't the kind of place where that was welcomed.
Right. So probably as a result of that is like, Wasn't, I wasn't particularly expressive or wanting to share my opinion. I'm like, I'm happy to just sit here, back here and listen. And then it was, it was wonderful, uh, mentors like Lori, who kind of, and another wonderful woman you met, I think at Laurie's wedding, Michelle Younger, who used to teach with Laurie, who is a professor.
Wonderful, wonderful soul and a very big energy [00:11:00] and they basically beat that silence and kind of false modesty out of me saying you're not really fully expressed as you would imagine Laurie doing to people when people are holding themselves back. So I'm extremely grateful. To having encountered these wonderful people and if it weren't for their mentorship, their push, their reflection of what was possible in me, their reflection of where I was not expressed, this arc would not have been possible.
So I feel if you believe our journeys are guided, do you feel I was shoved in front of these people so they could mentor me and beat me and beat this other crap out of me so I could be more expressed and And then if I had something worthwhile to share, do not hide against some kind of a false modesty.
They're like, Oh, no, I don't have anything to do. Like, no, you do, you have something to share. So when you're withholding that, You're not doing yourself any favor and there might be [00:12:00] people you might be able to contribute to.
Aaron: So what I really hear in your sharing is like having good mentors that don't take the bullshits and really like call you out to your better self.
Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. I can relate to that journey a lot. There's been a lot of amazing mentors in my, my journey through the years. Yeah. I'm really grateful to
Om: them. And yeah, wouldn't be, I wouldn't be the man I am without their guidance, their loving prodding forward.
Aaron: And, you know, I, I'd love to hear, you mentioned earlier and, and two things.
First, I'd say, you know, you teach a lot in the, in the realms of BDSM and, you know, I'm, I'm more kind of in the Tantra side, little flavors. Um, and what would you say is the most like misunderstood? Concept around BDSM for someone who's just listening and like, Hey, I've heard about this. I want to explore it, but I've heard so many different things.
So what's the most [00:13:00] misunderstood concept that you feel that kind of pushes people away from that world?
Om: Um, I think maybe. Maybe there are two big ones. One, one would be that these people are weird, that all BDSM plays some kind of a compensation, that you have some kind of imbalance
Aaron: in
Om: your psyche.
Something happened to you as a kid, maybe you were punished as a kid, maybe you were experienced violence as a kid, and somehow things have gotten screwy in your head. And BDSM play is kind of your compensation for the weirdness that has happened to you. I hear this prejudice, like weird people do this, damaged people do this.
And I may have held the same prejudice before I was introduced to BDSM. I'm like, who, why would people get off on this? There must be something different and off about them.
Aaron: And [00:14:00]
Om: so this is a, I think this is still a, commonly held prejudice, which I think is dissipating in more recent years. And after practicing and seeing the practitioners, I've really come out on the complete opposite end of this particular prejudice, which is, you know, who are the people who have the hardest time practicing BDSM?
People who actually have trauma in their childhood. Most people who practice BDSM, uh, they actually, I have never, it's like, yes, of course people have stuff in their background and childhood, but this entire theory that this is some kind of a compensatory activity, it really doesn't hold water. I think it's simply factually and scientifically incorrect.
Most people, I don't think kink is for kinky people. I think kink is for everybody, whatever. We consider King to be, I think the BDSM realm has so much to offer that pretty much [00:15:00] everyone can benefit from some aspect of it. I think that's one, one negative prejudice.
Aaron: Yeah, I can definitely agree with that.
It's, uh, I've learned a lot. I mean, I've kind of journeyed more into the realms of working with rope and Shabari, especially coming from my maritime kind of sailor background. Wonderful. The, the, the piece I do see is that I. And I'm curious, your thoughts is that I find that a lot of people that have had more intense sexual trauma, there's like a part of them that's often drawn to this world that aren't always consciously aware of why.
And sometimes I think maybe they're, you know, consciously replaying some of the traumatic things from the past. And, and curious your take on that, because that's where I do sometimes see people. almost looping and not moving forward or where, where's that line between, okay, I'm going to play out the scene and continue to be there.
And where's that line where we actually can, can heal that thing that they're drawn to.
Om: So again, I'm going to, I'm not a trained [00:16:00] psychologist. I'm going to give you my opinion as a lay person, as an observer. My observation from the field, so whatever has happened to in our childhood, whatever our attachment patterns are, whatever abandoned issues are, they are playing out in our relationship for all people, nothing specific about people who do kink.
You, you never have to do any kink and you think your issues with your mother and father don't end up in your romantic relationships.
Aaron: You think if you
Om: were physically abused, that doesn't end up in your non kink romantic relationship. Of course it does. So to say our childhood ends up in a romantic relationship, I'm like, yeah, across the board for everybody.
Yeah, your parents got divorced at a certain age that ends up your father was an alcoholic that ends up in your romantic relationship. Your father and [00:17:00] mother used to throw things at each other that ends up in your romantic relationship. You used to be punished by your father after you used to get drunk.
That ends up in your romantic relationship.
Aaron: I don't think it has anything to do with
Om: whether you do BDSM or not. So let's, let's acknowledge that first. They're like, there's nothing. Come on. That's universal. And if you are exploring that specifically in the BDSM realm, what I have observed is those people are actually a notch higher in their awareness
Aaron: about what
Om: they are doing and what they are recreating.
Rest of the world is just running on autopilot till a therapist sits them down and says this is the 10th alcoholic you're dating Can we talk about your alcoholic father, please? I mean, it's funny, but it's not really exaggeration
Aaron: For sure for sure right
Om: like every woman i've friends who are i have therapist friends who are like this every woman you have dated has turned out to be either borderline or [00:18:00] completely unstable or fucking three men on the side.
Aaron: How
Om: is it possible you're only attracted to these women? Can we talk about how withholding or withdrawn your mother used to be? And the fact that if a woman actually simply gives you her love you don't even consider that love That if you don't have to you know If you don't have to be fighting with your claws to get that get a woman's love You don't actually consider it romance.
Where did this pattern come from? This is how our psyches are built. It's got nothing specifically to do with going into BDSM scene play. Right, but when people actually come into BDSM exploration and they're like, you know what, I want to deal with this thing within scene space, that actually requires a slightly higher degree of awareness.
Aaron: It
Om: requires, this is in me, I want to play with it. There's an understanding that I am bringing this to a dom. I'm articulating it. [00:19:00] So I know what the hell I'm asking for. I'm exploring it within a controlled scene.
Aaron: I can
Om: actually play with these energies in my system
Aaron: and, uh,
Om: Oftentimes in BDSM, people have releases and catharsis in these areas bigger than sometimes they have on the therapist's couch.
So when people say people in people who do BDSM are running on autopilot, I'm like, no, no, no, no. Everybody else is running on autopilot. We're all running on autopilot till we either end up in the therapist's couch and say, this is my 10th alcoholic. Help me. I don't know how to get out this. So it can we do anything badly?
Can people do BDSM badly? Absolutely. Can you do BDSM unconsciously? Absolutely.
Aaron: But
Om: I think if we try to make a correlation that people who do BDSM are just traumatized people running around like zombies doing things. I'm like, that's not what I see. I actually [00:20:00] see a greater degree of self awareness and sophistication in people who practice
Aaron: BDSM.
I love that. Thank you. Yeah, and I've noticed my own journey with it from being very misunderstood and not really getting it all and then seeing a very similar reality in terms of The level of conscious communication that happens around sexuality that I wish was more in our everyday world, you know what desires are what fears are there?
How are we going to create this so that we both feel safe?
Om: Yeah, we have to communicate in a BDSM scene to create the scene. We have to we we have to be co conspirators So at least within the two people you have to communicate. What is it that you're trying to explore? You can't kind of do it on your own.
You can't do it on the sly
Aaron: Mm hmm.
Om: Yeah.
Aaron: So a little bit of a shift shifting gear, but also kind of connecting these dots, you know, you mentioned earlier, kind of keeping [00:21:00] Eros alive in relationship. And, you know, I worked with a lot of couples. I do a lot of couples therapy and helping couples like keep Eros alive in their, in their marriage and bedroom and not just becoming sexless marriages.
And I'm curious, both in your own personal journey, as well as professional, like what do you, what do you see that really like works for people to not have sexless marriages where you're falling asleep every night with nothing really
Om: works completely in long term couples. And I'm speaking for myself. I think nature is against us in long term bonding with Iran.
I think nature is built. For us to be drawn to new ass energy That is the blunt honest truth. I think we can have we can bring more Eros We can bring more mischief. We can bring more sexual skill and we can try and create Keep the erotic flow [00:22:00] going in long term coupledom, but I actually think If we really really Want to be If we really want to outdo nature, we actually have to be even smarter than that.
Which is we actually need to incorporate new ass energy in long term relationships to actually keep the Eros going. It is, it is an uphill battle. You can have a, you can have truly great long term relationship where people are loving each other, they're taking care of each other, they've got each other's back.
They're truly there for each other. I think nature doesn't give a rat's ass about Eros staying alive in long term relationships.
Aaron: They're
Om: like stay alive, keep your children alive, keep your life going. You have already procreated. What the fuck do you need to fuck for anyway? You don't need to be hot for your wife.
You don't need to be hot for your husband. I really think There is nothing abnormal about it. We are lamenting this thing like everything has [00:23:00] gone awry and this is a mistake, and I actually don't think it's a mistake. I think if we want to bring Eros into long term relationship, that actually needs to be a hack on our part.
We really have to hack our systems to do that. And one of the funnest hacks you can bring in, especially if your bond is solid, is to actually bring in, outsource some of the Eros. I do this in my own life. I help other people do it. I'm like, really, you need to make erotic play more a banquet and stop thinking that two people over 30 years are just supposed to remain hard for each other.
And if, if there are, those are exceptions and God bless them. But I think the rest of the world saying this is the way it should be. There is no evidence of it. The man can be beautiful. The woman can be beautiful. The man can say I fucking love my woman. Look how hard she is and yet [00:24:00] that erotic energy is is Simply not in favor.
Nature doesn't favor that vibrancy and long term partnership and domesticity, especially if you have children together, other it's like other things take priority.
Aaron: And, and so you feel like the, the kind of ideal of, uh, find a, find a wife or husband and be married forever and never be with anyone else.
It's just, uh, you
Om: can be absolutely fine. I absolutely believe in long, stable, uh, secure relationships. I think we absolutely need that but Erotic vibrancy has never been on the agenda in the human species. Marriage was never supposed to be about erotic vibrancy. It was supposed to be about procreation and domesticity. And keeping the children alive It was never about erotic expression.
This is a very new criteria we have on [00:25:00] long term partnerships
Aaron: It
Om: was not really even sought after you or there's a you know something pursued. But it is very important today so it's like it has become a real problem. Because erotic expression has become much more important to us in our time And now we are trying to balance well, how can I have the erotic expression and have the long term secure partnership?
Which people still want and I think it's a healthy thing to want long term secure partnerships. But I think it's better to have the long term secure partnership and then say well, how do we add Eros? Into it, instead of taking it for granted that it's just supposed to be there.
Aaron: So bring it in with clear communication.
Bring it in with clear
Om: communication. If you are open to it, invite other people into it. Have a community of people. It doesn't always have to be about doing [00:26:00] everything with everybody, but in the community we are in, that can be vibrancy to having Temple nights to having play parties to having BDSM
Aaron: events
Om: Bring the joy and the vibrancy into it Uh and keep things alive that way to me the biggest the best model I see In a long term partnership is each person is interested in keeping their partner Erotically satisfied.
It doesn't mean they do it all themselves
Aaron: Right
Om: I don't know how much detail you want to go into. No, no,
Aaron: no. I love it. You know, one of the things that comes up for me is is looking at, you know, where we are as a culture today and, you know, sometimes there's a conversation of more of the tribal culture that we've kind of come from where often, you know, there would be a natural sharing of you know, [00:27:00] one woman with many men and, and many women, men being with a variety of different women.
And, um, you know, I can see of course, drawbacks and advantages to that and, and how, you know, it actually ends up being the tribe that raises a family and rather than a single dyad kind of, you know, closed box places that people, you know, try to raise family from.
Om: I hear you. But I think if we really need to see.
Separate the conversation between erotic joy and expression and the raising of family and the family unit in the bonding, then both kind of need their own attention, their own nourishment, their own structures. Right. So if you're talking about the village, raising the child, people, not raising children in a nuclear family, that's a whole other conversation.
Aaron: But if you're talking
Om: about two people who have a solid bond, who really love each other, who are completely good in their relationship. In their partnership, and then how do we how do we add a little bit more erotic fun into their [00:28:00] life? And i'm like that requires creative solutions. Don't take for granted that it should just be there And don't think that if it's not there something is wrong with your partnership I think these expectations are hurting people more than anything.
Aaron: Yeah, for sure. And, and where's the line, because the other thing I see in people that, you know, have a lot of erotic play and are often having many lovers is that, you know, you're saying that solid bound. And I agree. I agree. Like having that solid bond that actually is a foundation that you can move from.
But what do you see is like, of course, there's not a, actual timeline. But I see some people going into polyamorous connections, like when their relationship isn't solid and they're trying to bring other people in and actually just ends up making things messier. I see that a lot. And then they have this thought of actually all poly polyamory or whatever you want to call it, you know, non non ethical or ethical non monogamy is the right word.
Um, like that ends up being there as [00:29:00] rather than let me deepen with one, let me just have more of a cornucopia of many and not deal with the issues that are in the dyad with another curious your thoughts with that because I see that a lot in this. I would,
Om: I would really separate relationship bonding, emotional connection from erotic play.
Erotic play can be really it can be like tonight we're going out to dinner. You're not you're not wagering your relationship
Aaron: nor
Om: are you giving up your own kitchen? You're like today. We are going to a play party today. We are going to a dungeon Yeah, I am a dom. I handle a lot of women at events at parties Even I when I find a dom when I have a bond with a man and I know he's a good dom I'm like handle my woman Hmm.
Aaron: Mm hmm.
Om: Mm hmm. I wanted to have a scene with you.
Aaron: Mm hmm.
Om: I want to bring that richness And this this and that offer is [00:30:00] is a one hour two hour erotic event. It's a scene. It is not Destroying our connection. The other person is not moving in. This is not polyamory. Yeah, yeah. This is adding erotic nourishment and play and fun.
Play is the correct word for it. Truly, I really don't want to diminish or belittle erotic connection, but it is not fundamentally that different than going to a dance with your woman and saying, handing your woman off to have a dance with another man. You can have your boundaries. They don't have to do everything.
And yet there is something lovely like dance with other people, engage with other people. You would not keep your woman from talking to other women from having connections with other women Allow for the erotic play and the it keeps us young It keeps our women young to flirt with other men to see the other man's attention on them They turn a bit nervous.
They feel [00:31:00] attractive. And i'm like, yeah, there's yes, I can give, there's nothing I can do to give her that spark that quickly. There's something to it.
Aaron: And, and where's, where's the line, you know, because I, and I, I really appreciate what you're saying of, of the, of the importance of the erotic play outside of the, the relationship.
And of course, because we're a human, there can be these emotional connections that happen. I'm sure you've had women that, you know, you do a scene with them and they're like, Oh, Oh my, you know, like, uh, you're going to be my daddy forever. You know, it's like, so there's emotional connections that sometimes are the gray areas between, and I'd love to kind of hear your thoughts on that.
On that side.
Om: Absolutely. And I think emotional connections can also be beautiful. I actually believe we should not separate our emotions and our heart from our erotic connection. If you do BDSM well, heart energy is oftentimes open. And yes, there are [00:32:00] times when it will create confusion. We're like, I want more of this.
I want more of you. And I think, yes, those are challenges. But I think those are challenges where we can be honest, where we can be adults. And I think that
Aaron: is you're still playing with fire. You're still
Om: playing with human emotions. Things are still going to be unpredictable. But I think, you know, I think that's the place where we can be clear in our boundaries and say, this is what I'm available for.
And I absolutely honor that other things are happening. And this is that's a place for us to be truly adults together. And I think that is, you're still playing with fire. You're still playing with human emotions. Things are still going to be unpredictable.
Aaron: But I
Om: think. That is still a more honest way of dealing with it than, as you referred to early, as so much of what I see happening under the banner of polyamory, which I think oftentimes feels really sloppy.
And people are not always honest and oftentimes the people in those connections are constantly feeling dropped That I thought I had this person, but I actually [00:33:00] don't
Aaron: I think
Om: that is a bigger issue than saying this is what i'm available for can we meet here? And if not, that's also fine
Aaron: Hmm. Right.
Om: There might be challenges everywhere.
I think it's clear. The boundaries can be clear if you know. No, this is my primary bond, and this is a playful connection or an erotic connection, which is limited.
Aaron: And, you know, to somebody who's just coming in or, you know, looking at, uh, like you mentioned earlier, one taste and just how much that's been out in the media as well.
And so much around, you know, both conscious actuality aspects of BDSM. I mean, it's starting to poke its head more into Netflix and into these places and even the field of tantra. I feel like everything is tantra meets something else these days, which is great. And, you know. What are your, your, um, [00:34:00] advice or support to that couple that maybe has a strong bond that doesn't want to get lost in the, the kind of, uh, the, the, the Eros world and then actually kind of, you know, Why I've seen many marriages fall apart.
Maybe they were meant to fall apart because the one person was leaning too much more and the both people weren't actually fully at the seat, not the table of the full fuck. Yes. In that situation. So
Om: that's a real, real challenge when the two people are not in the same place. It is a very real challenge.
It is something that comes into our field as teachers and workshop holders all the time, where one partner is there and the other partner is at home and unhappy. They're not in a good place that their partner is here doing this thing. Are the two partners have shown up, but one partner has dragged the other partner there.[00:35:00]
They're like, I don't know why my partner needs or wants this. And it's not a good place to be in. So. So, though I think, but I think those are relationship challenges. I don't think there are any easy solutions to that. I think if the two people are in a good space together, that like, hey, let's, let's explore expanding our horizon a little bit.
I think then they can be kind of adventurous together. Then I don't think even if they try something and it doesn't work out, calamity.
Aaron: Right.
Om: And in that area, you know, I have, uh, advanced training right now, uh, for women who want to bring BDSM when they're practitioners who want to bring BDSM in their sessions.
Aaron: They're already
Om: session providers. And I think this group of, of practitioners, let's call them courtesans, I think are in a way. Deeply needed in our culture right now, [00:36:00]
Aaron: trained
Om: people who can come in with clean boundaries and coach couples and spark their Eros, teach the men a little something about handling his woman, coach the women a little bit, and how she may open up a receptivity wherever she is, uh, could use a little coaching,
Aaron: do hard
Om: work and then exit.
Aaron: This is really
Om: a great offering to have. Compared to a couple just going out there and adventuring on their own And creating some kind of a romantic situation. I think this if you can do it deliberately and cleanly the people In our category people we train people who are practitioners can be a great Provide a great service to couple them to come in there and help, uh, uh, ignite their Eros.
I do this as a [00:37:00] dom all the time. Couples come to me all the time. I trained the men. I sometimes take them into scene play. Sometimes men are like, you know what? I don't want to be a dom. I'm going to send my woman to you. You handle her. I'm fine with that. I'll watch and learn see what I can absorb So if the two people can show up in that kind of open hearted space Then they can acquire mastery and have expansive and it can it's a really beautiful place to end up in the afterwards The man feels actually more manly and strong like I am providing this for my woman You
Aaron: The woman feels,
Om: wow, what a great life I have.
My man is okay with giving me this. And there isn't any, any, uh, negative impact afterwards. Is it any punishment, any resentment, any passive aggression? He's like, no, I want you to have it. Right. And I think people are very much capable of being that generous for each other. [00:38:00] I see it in my field all the time.
People who are long established couples who have been there for a while, have children. We're like, I want you to have it.
Aaron: Mm.
Om: Why the hell not? Mm-Hmm. .
Aaron: Mm-Hmm. .
Om: And I think being at that stage of generosity with each other can be actually a very beautiful part of your partnership.
Aaron: Mm mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Yeah.
Beautiful. Um, the, the piece I'd love to kinda dive into more around that and, and as it relates to man, woman relating and polarity, um, you know, I can feel your strong identification as a dom and, and, and. being in that role and where for you again, both kind of personally and professionally, um, is this like, where did the, the, the, the more vulnerability pieces come in with the feminine, with the, you know, kind of more receptivity in, in your own being.
Cause speak, and speaking to someone who [00:39:00] both really identifies as a dog or wants to do more of that. And where does the healthy polarity dynamic come into play you know, in your own personal relationship, where, of course, you can't be a dom 24 7 all day long, there's going to be the places where vulnerability can be there and you can feel like you can be held in that as well.
Om: Curious, I'm not completely understanding the question. I don't see vulnerability as a challenge with being a dom. So I'm not quite sure how you, how your suggestion, are you saying me being in receiving
Aaron: mode? Yeah, yeah, you being more in receiving mode and the, the, the vulnerability and the receptivity of that.
Om: Receiving is amazing. Receiving is great. Giving is great. And I think in a dom sub dynamic or in a romantic dynamic, my best solution to it is really let's set time aside for scene play. Mm
Aaron: hmm.
Om: Mm hmm. You know, is
Aaron: that is that scene play where you're sometimes more in the sub role? Does that [00:40:00] like what percentage does that happen?
It isn't
Om: for me personally. It isn't so much. I'm in a sub role, but I can very much be in the receptive and surrendered role.
Aaron: Okay.
Om: Where my partner says. Eight o'clock today take a shower be in your bathrobe and for two hours. You're in my hands. I'm like absolutely beautiful done Amazing Would love to receive invitations like that And then conversely I can tell my woman come down in your collar and lingerie at 7pm and we're doing rope and other things. Beautiful. See the smile light up on her face, but I think it is wonderful at least In the framework I operate into, I love to separate the giving and receiving. I love to separate the dom and sub roles for a particular episode for a particular scene. I think the whole model that we, the lovers are just supposed to come together and wonderful things are supposed to happen.
I think more [00:41:00] so many times that doesn't really work. It works great in the movies, but it doesn't always work. So I think having a little bit of more structure where one person is more in the active role and the other person is more in the receptive role. I think is a, is a good model to follow quite
Aaron: often.
And, uh, you, I, what I heard you just saying is the differentiation between like the sub role and the state of, of more surrender and receiving in your relationship. So I'd love for you to speak into a little bit of that. So I think that can be, that can be some gray lines in that sometimes. To
Om: me, the dom and sub are archetypes.
Right. And it's for each of us to kind of discover which archetypes are most prominent and active in our systems, right? So when you're learning BDSM, you should learn to play both archetypes. If anything, you should really learn to submit first so you know what submission feels like.
Aaron: And then,
Om: uh, You can kind of see where your own [00:42:00] temperament is, where your own joy is, which energy is more in configuration with your makeup.
My system is more in resonant with the dom archetype, right? But that dom archetype is, is you can say it's a more active archetype because usually the dom handles us up. The dom pours into the sub, the dom takes a submissive on a ride. But I think that's only half the journey. Even within the dom sub dynamic, the submissive should pour back into the dom.
And in BDSM framework, we generally refer to that as service.
Aaron: Now
Om: the submissive is in active position, but now pouring energy into the dom and nourishing the dom in a way that the dom feels nourished. Whatever that is for that particular dom. Service can take many forms. For certain people, it is going into sub mode.
They switch, right? And they like going into submissive mode from time to time and having either their partner or somebody else dom them. Whatever works for you, [00:43:00] wherever your joy is, wherever you feel really nourished and saturated and receptive and afterwards you feel, Oh my God, that was so good. So the whole whole idea of any kind of partnership is give your partner what your partner wants, nourish your partner in a way that they find nourishing without any idea about this is what the dynamic should look like.
So a
Aaron: deeper listening underneath the surface of what actually is going to be the nourishing service oriented part. Whichever frequency
Om: works for for your particular person. Right, whichever gives them a very transported state, whichever puts them in a trance state, whichever puts them in like feeling this is so good kind of a state, right?
Which whatever makes them feel held, nourished, cherished, handled. Beautiful. Yeah, give your partner to learn each other's temperament and really give your [00:44:00] partner what your partner wants. And if you don't have the temperament for it, outsource it. Listen, this is happening all the time. I have many accomplished worldly men.
They're like, listen, I have accomplished many things in life. What you do, I don't have the time to learn. I don't have particularly the desire to learn, but I know my woman wants that frequency.
Aaron: Mm hmm.
Om: Give it to her.
Aaron: Uh huh. Once a week. And do you see in that dynamic that that makes their like relationship stronger, the fact that she's getting that from you and not getting that from him?
Om: Again, there aren't any pat answers because all relationships are complex, but overall, I can say there are many couples who are in that state where, yeah, the bigger issue, bigger Thing they are doing is they're taking care of each other.
Aaron: They
Om: are finding ways to keep each other nourished. And I find women also [00:45:00] amazingly generous in this department.
Right. They will hire one of my practitioners. They're like, go have a date with my man. I don't need to be there. I don't need to know what happened.
Aaron: I
Om: want to give this to him just as he's giving it to me. And that's a real, this is what I'm saying. There are ways of keeping the Eros each other fed erotically without thinking.
It is just supposed to happen between the two of us for 30
Aaron: years.
Om: I think that model is generating a lot of frustration. Whereas the other model is like. We have, we know how to create a banquet of Eros now for each other and together, which I think is a lot more grown up and sophisticated, right?
Aaron: I, I do, I do.
I, I think the, the, I love that you say make the banquet of Eros. Yes. And I, I, I guess the thing I see sometimes in that [00:46:00] banquet when it's done with a lot of clarity and consciousness. So where is this line between where the animal body that's been caged probably for some people for 20, 30 years and they're like, Oh my God, I'm in my banquet and they're just getting everything.
And, and where is that, that, that place where like, essentially the, the dynamic communication between animal and consciousness where animal body doesn't take over and destroy everything, but consciousness isn't keeping them so locked up behind a cage door. Like how can that banquet come out and be more in a healthy way?
I
Om: don't, I don't see people ODing on sex, right? What would the. Place where I think we need to keep our attention to keep the house from burning down
Aaron: Is
Om: make sure We are not doing anything at the expense of our partner So this is what I mean if the two partners are actually taking care of each other [00:47:00] You are almost Making sure that breakdown does not happen I'm not saying you're like I'm going out to do my thing because I'm gonna go get myself satisfied and your partner is like, I don't know where my partner is.
I don't know who they're with. I don't know what they're doing. I don't know if I'm being abandoned here.
Aaron: I don't know if they're
Om: choosing somebody else over me. If all those things are active, that's not what I'm talking about. Right. You, your partner can't feel you're getting your nourishment at their expense or that they are being dropped or that you're leaving them.
If all those fears are there, you're back in breakdown, which, by the way, is a very common energetics and the so called polyamorous relationships. People are constantly in insecurity. On who is my person? Do I even have this person? Are they [00:48:00] always on their way out the door because that's what it means which I think is Is not a good way to do anything I don't think that's a good good thing.
I had multiple conversations with dear friends of mine when kovat started Who the people who have been? proponents of polyamory And like everybody disappeared are these two paired up and they are bunking together where I don't have access to them and then all of a sudden it becomes really apparent The bonds aren't there There's nobody you can call on there's nobody to pick up the phone to there's nobody interested And showing up for you in the middle of the night if you get sick It was a really wake up call for a lot of people like we may think we have multiple bonds but in fact, we have no bonds. Which is not a great place to be. So I think the best way to do this kind of erotic expansion is actually to take better care of each other not [00:49:00] to have the other person feel they're being dropped
Aaron: and that
Om: you are, you are compromising your main bond to get your erotic nourishment, quite the opposite.
And if you do it right, then again, then it's like, then you're co conspirators. Right, then you can't believe how good your life is. You're like, you know, you that happy state, you see couples in like that was fun, right? After a good evening, after a good night, like that was a fun night. That was a fun evening.
Let's do that again sometime. And you're enjoying it together. That's a great place to be as partners.
Trust me. That's possible. Yeah, no, I hear that. If you do it right, it is quite possible. If you're an adult about it, it is very, very much possible. Do it with the right people. Do it with the people who understand boundaries. Do it with the people who are not there to create drama and chaos. And it's very much possible.
And [00:50:00] certainly, again, I'd be a huge advocate for people. If you're just dipping your toes into this is really work with practitioners work with professionals who know how to come in and exit.
Aaron: Mm hmm. Yeah, great. And and the really the strong piece I hear throughout this conversation is like having that, um, that that one strong, you know, emotional bond with another then actually gives a strong foundation to have these other, you know, erotic experience and continue to deepen with one.
Om: Absolutely. You need, you need to be each other's person and then you can play with the rest of it. Yeah. I
Aaron: love that. I love that. Well, thank you. And, and curious from your side, what you have, what are the, the new exciting things coming up into this new year, into 2024, and what, what's the last and Laurie's world?
Om: Laurie and I are gonna be teaching our retreat in Tulum end of February. Okay. Our Tantric with BDSM, and then we are doing it again in Austria, again, we [00:51:00] did it last year, this year, earlier this year. So people can join us for that. That's a six day retreat. It's a great training in BDSM. It's great for couples.
To learn even the basic stuff. And we really emphasize containment and especially men giving containment to their women, which I think is a very important piece for them to learn. And then I have other classes going on. A lot of them, you can just go to my website and find out what's coming up at
omrupani.org
Aaron: Awesome. And when are you, uh, I'll be teaching in Austria in May. When are you in August?
Om: Yeah. August 24th.
Aaron: Amazing. Well, I, uh, I appreciate you, Om. I appreciate your, uh, your, your presence and just the perspective and the clarity that you bring into this field. I think it's very refreshing and, uh, you know, stop trying to be anyone other than who you are.
And I really celebrate that. Thank you.
Om: I'm, I'm doing my best to basically give you a field report. I'm really sharing what I've seen work. Yeah. And I think we really [00:52:00] need more of this in the world because the frustration and the breakdowns in our relationship and Eros is so far and wide today that I think there's a lot of pain and confusion around it.
Aaron: So
Om: I believe it or not, we are the weirdos who have something to contribute in this area. You know, my classes are so often filled with therapists and psychiatrists. It is really amusing and endearing to me. Like truly in every class, it wouldn't be surprised if they have like these two or three, four people.
Aaron: Mm hmm.
Om: And they come up and they talk to me and I love to hear from them and they will always confess. We don't have that much to offer. You know, couples come to us to solve their problems. And the number one problem they bring is, you know, sex, lack of it. Like, we have no idea. We have no training. We haven't explored our own Eros.
We don't really have any wisdom and insight into Eros. We can help them communicate better. We can try tracking down their problems to their childhood issues. We can sometimes help [00:53:00] them, uh, release, uh, resentments and create forgiveness. Couples therapy can be effective there, but the therapist and the psychiatrists themselves have really no real training and in this field, because I think academia has completely dropped the ball on this.
Aaron: Hmm. I agree. Believe it or not, we
Om: are the outliers here. Self, self-study and weirdos who are living weird lives that people may raise their eyebrows at. But then again, we have a lot of field experience. On what works and what doesn't work.
Aaron: For sure, for sure. Just the last question for you is like, what would the world look like and expand into with a healthier dose and embodiment of Eros in their personal life?
What do you feel like the world should step into with that?
Om: I don't know, it's a big question.[00:54:00]
I know the biggest biggest answer that again comes up to me is again the very PG rated one. I think if men simply learn to give good containment to their women, that would be like a leap forward. I think without that, at least, again, I talk about men, women, I think it really applies to all gender couples.
Usually, one person in a couple provides containment to the other. And if that basic energetic contract isn't being held, if that basic contribution is not being made, from the masculine element to the feminine element, Things almost don't, there's a failure to launch.
Aaron: So
Om: I'm like, there are other steps that need to be taken.
Eros is such a big and rich field to study. But I think if men don't know how to give good containment to their women, it's like nothing really gets started. They don't even earn their women's [00:55:00] trust so that their women may surrender to them or open to them or be receptive to
Aaron: them.
Om: It's like the whole journey kind of never takes off.
Aaron: Hmm hmm.
Om: And that containment is needed in Eros, and it's also just needed in relationships overall.
Aaron: Amazing. Thank you brother. Thank you for My pleasure. This work you do in the world. Great to speak with you and to feel you and to Thanks for having me. Glad that we're, we're, we're brothers on this journey of,
Om: uh, erotic life. would love to offer something together with you for men. I know there's so much work to be done
Aaron: for,
Om: for sure.
Yeah. Maybe we create
Aaron: something that would be fun. Cool. For sure. All right. Thank you. Take care.