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Creativity isn’t tidy—it’s risky, chaotic, and full of surprises. It’s full of breakthroughs and breakdowns, moments of flow and moments of doubt. Join Mishu Hilmy for unfiltered conversations with artists, filmmakers, musicians, and fearless makers who thrive in the unknown, embrace imperfection, and create at the edge of possibility.
This is your front row seat to the self-doubt, unexpected wins, and messy emotional work of making something real. But craft isn’t just about feeling—it’s about problem-solving, process, and the devotion behind mastery.
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Mishu Hilmy (00:03.244)
Welcome to Mischief in Mastery, where we embrace the ups, downs, and all around uncertainty of a creative life, and that steady, and sometimes not so steady journey toward expertise. Each episode we talk candidly with people I know, people I don't know, folks who produce, direct, write, act, do comedy, make art, make messes, and make meaning out of their lives. You will hear guests lay out how they work, what they're thinking about, where they get stuck, and why they snap out of their comfort zones and into big, bold, risky mo-
So if you're hungry for honest insights, deep dives into process philosophies and practical tips, plus maybe a little mischief along the way, you're in the right place. For more, visit mischiefpod.com. Hey everyone, it's Mishu and welcome to Mischief and Mastery. Today we are talking with Emily Lape. Emily is an award-winning filmmaker, artist, and actress. Her first written and directed feature film, Mercy's Girl, is available to stream on Apple TV, Netflix, and Amazon Prime.
Her latest acting role is playing Lucy in Wendy Joe Carlton's feature film, Lucy is a Loser, which is currently in post-production. She's an executive producer on Chicago filmmaker, Michael Glover-Smith's new feature film, Peckla, shooting August, 2025. So it's very nice to have Emily on the show and to get to chat. We've known each other for a few years. I think we met a little bit before the lockdown or somewhere around there. And we get to chat about a lot. We talked about creative revival, the heartbreak and lessons.
from a feature film that stalls out and finding new ways to bring long held stories to life. We also talk about songwriting, slow paced storytelling and how to navigate the energy it takes to make work that you love. So if that's something you're interested in, please stick around. You can follow Emily on Instagram at M.Lape as well as Emily Lape on YouTube. So take a look at that. I'll have it in the show notes. But without any further delay.
Here it is. love the conversation between Emily and myself. Hope you enjoy.
Emily Lape (02:01.742)
feel really like kind of revived again in all sorts of different creative pursuits. Like I do songwriting, I paint, and then obviously write and develop films. But I feel, I think I had a lot of stuff going on in your personal life, in my personal life as we all do, and it can kind of take your attention away and you can't really put much energy into it. But now I feel like I'm able.
to actually put some energy into my creative endeavors, which is really nice.
I think I relate to that, you know, a bit of the personal and a of political life too. Sometimes it's hard, at least for me recently, to be like connected or motivated or even like balanced with creativity. So like, do you find that like you've, you're at least aware of maybe an imbalance and you're trying to get back to it or what's that sort of transition been like?
Well, I think you just like what's the state of the world can kind of make, you know, make me feel like what's the point? What's the point of all of this when there's all these bigger things and, you know, as people's lives are being disrupted in such a powerful way. It is very hard to be, well, let me just tell my story. I got this story about this thing and, you know, it just, it's very hard to connect back to that, to that creative space.
Have you been settling in? Because I know you mentioned, you know, songwriting and whatnot. So has that also been filling the void or are you more actively trying to pursue something more long-term like writing for film or more being open to just like general creative outlets?
Emily Lape (03:31.958)
Yeah. Well, the songwriting, I've always been a songwriter since I was a kid. I've always really expressed myself in poetry or in song, but I had put that down for probably like 15 years. recently I acted in a feature film this last fall called Lucy is a Loser. And I play Lucy and Lucy is, you know, a singer songwriter, a rock star lesbian who's down on her luck.
I had to, I mean, I only had about two or three weeks to prep for that role. But during that time, I picked the guitar back up. I was playing the piano and I was like, my God, I forgot what this feels like. Just to sit at the piano and hum out a melody and, you know, and take, you know, stuff from your journal and turn it into a song and all that. So that kind of reawakened the songwriting in me. And just recently I got a new guitar and so I've been playing that.
And that's been really nice. But as far as like film stuff goes, like I had a film called Abicue that, you know, you as a filmmaker, you're from like seed of an idea to the writing process, the development process, to the pre-production, casting, location finding. And this film was taking place in New Mexico. know, we had everything put together, right? I to spend the last year of my life wearing all these hats and building the crew and everything. And then like July of.
2023, SAG went on strike and had to halt everything, halt production and trying to get a hold of SAG to get their waivers filled out and not hearing back for months. And we were set to shoot in September of 2023. And it got to the point where you just had to call it. I couldn't keep everybody on hold. Couldn't keep the crew on hold and all of that. And so I think it's funny, the script is about, one of the themes is about
grief. Yeah, the main character Rosa, she had lost her wife to cancer and we meet her at the point where she's still kind of shell shocked from that experience, very closed off. I just spent the last two years, I feel like in grief about that film, you know?
Mishu Hilmy (05:50.764)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's like a really shitty situation. most of it's out of your control, but still it's like the pain of the potential, right? You can see that where it was going and where it could have been and then all that work, you know, just kind of put on hold or just scrapped indefinitely. So I think that's probably a very demotivating experience because it's just more proof, more evidence of like, this is a very hard thing to do. And now you sort of suffered through, you know, a few years of trying to get it going.
Absolutely, and I had never tried to put together such a big production. I mean, I learned a lot from it. I mean, also just the, having, there's three, four kid characters in the film. You know, it takes place on this mobile park, a mobile home park out in New Mexico in this rural area. And some of the main characters are these children that are in this mobile home park. You know, having to do the casting process, you get hundreds of applicants. And then finally you cast.
And then to have these kids who are so excited, you know, we're like a month or two away. Having to let them know it's not going to happen and to let, you know, all the locations. mean, the script had such crazy locations. I really didn't think I could ever get it made. And each step I was just like, well, let's just try. Let me get a location manager out in New Mexico and see if it happens. And she ended up finding the perfect town that had a lake that I needed, that had a mobile home park that I needed, that had the cute quaint downtown, had all these like elements. I was like,
Wow, you we found a mobile home park that's letting us film in it. You know, having to let that location know, you know, this is a retirement community that was so sweet. That was so excited about us filming there. So I think that was just, and I had so much shame. So much shame, you know, you carry when you can't complete a project, like if you can.
I like, kind of, is it sort of like that sense of responsibility of like, you kind of had all this lined up and then the shame and disappointment of, that just the timing didn't work out and these things just slowly kind of fell apart.
Emily Lape (07:48.558)
Right, and it was exactly that. It's just, you know, I keep, even now, I'll get emails about it, people asking about it. Yeah. You know, I'll have like post-production houses that I had been reaching out at that time just to get quotes from that are still reaching out to me now. And they're like, hey, what's going on with Abiquity? He's still making it. And every time I go to like some type of social event with the film community, people are asking about it. And it's still in my heart. I mean, it's every, you know, I still feel it beating inside of me. Like I need to tell that story. Yeah.
And I will tell that story. I just, I don't know when, I don't know when I will have the energy that needs to wear all those hats and restart. I mean, I'd have to recast everything. I'd recruit everything. I mean, maybe I could get some of the locations again, but you know, it's launching a business again, going through all that again. So if I could get some more funding, I think that might help and make a little things a little smoother, but.
I'm just curious if you're also like right now finding that you might be wanting or needing more space from the project. It seems like you have trust that like down the line, you know, the master way is nothing, whether it's two years, five years or 20 years that that story still lives within you. But are you finding that you'd prefer a little bit more space to just like have a clean slate and not have the residue of this project still kind of nipping at you?
I think I was for the last couple years, last two years, but I think now I'm like, okay, well, how can I possibly make that one happen? You know, it's just the story itself is just, everybody that's read the script has told me like, it really resonates because it's themes of grief, it's themes of being a new person and a new community. And so I am at the point where now I'm like, okay, how can I make this happen? Do I move it to Illinois?
You know, do I like go over the desert of New Mexico? How can I make it happen for less money? Which I really can't make it happen for less money just because there's kids involved, you know, and I really want to make sure they're safe. That includes having had a teacher and supervisors and stuff like that. So, but I am at the point now where I'm kind of, it's been on my mind so much these last couple of weeks. And I don't know if that's because I recently attended Filmscape here in Chicago.
Emily Lape (09:59.296)
and ran into a few people that had helped support the project. But I do feel it alive and kicking and being wanting to make it happen. It's just, do I have the energy?
Right, right. Yeah, yeah. The energy, the focus. Like, I'm curious, do you find that you're allowing yourself also to have smaller things in mind, whether it is filmmaking or not filmmaking?
Yeah, absolutely. mean, that's kind of the thing. I mean, you know this, it's like, we've got all these ideas and stuff in different stages of development. So I'm thinking about the other scripts that I have and that I could shoot here locally in Chicago that have locations that I know and I could crew up here and have a lot of actors that I'm friends with and that I've seen their work and that I want to cast. So I am thinking more about, what if instead of Abiquiu, this
Not larger production, but larger budget production. mean, it's like a hundred K versus something I can make here a feature for 30 K. Why don't we do that next and make Abiquiu as soon as we can. But so yeah, I'm thinking about that. am just thinking actually, I might shoot something in September, which is very close, but.
Yeah, that's two months. I believe in you. believe in you. And this future thing, is that hoping to be also a bit longer kind of feature side, 60 to 90 minutes, or are you just maybe wanting to do something just short and quick?
Emily Lape (11:23.458)
Yeah, definitely feature. I tried to write short films. I don't think I'm good at it all. I mean, just my style is small. Yeah. You know, lot of people might not be their cup of tea, but it's my cup of tea. It's very slow. It's very allows for a lot of character development and kind of sitting in feelings, sitting in the spaces and stuff. So I don't know how to convert that into a short film. So yeah, it would be another feature for around probably 30 K. And I've got two I'm contemplating. One is like a lesbian stalker film.
Yeah, I need more of those.
Yeah. And then the other one's like a really sweet, kind of neighborly film about this older African-American man who lost his wife and now he lives in a house and he's getting ready to sell it. And he's got these young neighbors next door and they're kind of relationship and stuff. So yeah.
For me? Oh gosh, yeah. think my goal has been at least just wanting to write something really low budget. I was writing just a two person feature at the start of the year, but I had to put that on pause because it was very experimental and I usually write more, you know, kind of high concept narratives and stuff, you know, classic three or five act structures. And I just wanted to just do something more experimental. But after being 30 pages into it, I was like, I don't know what I want the audience to get from this. I don't know what like you're supposed to feel. And it became a very
intellectual exercise. still like the spirit of the piece, but I'd like to just return to having a better sense of my goals for the emotional experience beyond just like an intellectual deconstruction of an idea.
Emily Lape (12:58.094)
So do you check in with yourself in the writing process where you're thinking about what the audience might take away or is it part of the outlining process or is it just something you don't really think about at all and all of sudden you're like, wait a minute, what is this? What do I want to say here?
I think, I mean, for this one, was just like, I'm like, what, wait, what, what is this? What, why am I doing this? but usually I think in the outline portion, there's like a sense of what, what's the kind of, what is evoked? What is the feeling? What is the spirit? And like, you know, someone needs to look.
good when they walk away from the screening. And ideally it's the audience. The audience, you know, if you just spent an hour and a half or two hours, I want them to be able to walk away and be like, I'm glad I spent that 90 minutes. So I don't know if it's necessarily like audience comes first when I start writing, but at a certain point in the outline it's, you know, what are the core experiences that I'm trying to guide an audience towards? Cause ultimately that's also out of my control. I can control is like how I write it, how I produce or direct it. But
how can I at least guide them to some sort of experience I want them to have. But someone could also just be utterly bored. It's like, I thought this was going to be a fun, funny experience, but no, everyone's just bored and confused. So I do try to spend some time at least knowing where are we taking them? What's the journey? And for this piece, there was no journey other than, you know, 15 to 20, one and a half page scenes, which were fun to write. So I think I'll get back to it. But yeah, I'm on the other side more recently. I just wanted to do
a volume of short work because I've been maybe a little bit away from it since 2023. Maybe that was the last time I did a bigger production. I did some shorts in 2024, but I, the longer I am away from it, the more I am ambivalent and go like, do I even like this? So I need to remember liking it. And I usually, once I'm working with actors, it's, it's nice to be in that room.
Emily Lape (14:44.076)
Yeah, isn't it funny how we have to, you know, put an objective lens on our own creative endeavors? Yeah. Very odd. just feels, I mean, I've always, of course, everybody wants like commercial success and wants the audience to enjoy it and get good reviews. That's all great. But it's just very odd to be in a creative space and to be thinking about how others may observe it. Yeah. Because it's really about your experience as
the writer and the journey that you're on and how you feel. And I don't know, just like an artistic point of view. It's just so odd, we, know, that's, it's totally valid that we need to. It's just, it's just hard. Sometime I don't think we can always be the best objective person to look. And so it's great to get other people's feedback at some point.
I'm a big advocate of like the process is everything. Like that needs to be enough. And if it's not enough, then like, you're just going to suffer. But it's also an interesting thing of like, there's the risk of if I only folk, well, the process is doing it, the act of doing it. As long I'm present with the act of doing it, I'm succeeding. And on the other side is the curiosity of like, is the object or the experience of this thing also kind of successful or connected when other people, you know, experience it, but that's ultimately out of my hands and I can.
gain no satisfaction of whether they enjoy it or not. But there's still a part of me that's curious of how can I create something. But really it's just like the act, the act of creating is the only thing that is, you know, is there to enjoy. So I think returning to the process is usually the best way for me to just like forget about all that. But I'm still curious about it nonetheless.
Yeah, of course. Absolutely. As an artist, you want to see people's reaction. I mean, I personally love having a polarizing project. Like, I love to hear, I hate this, this is too slow and whatnot. And then I love hearing from other people like, wow, this is genius. You know, it's just like the full spectrum of reaction.
Mishu Hilmy (16:38.574)
For you, have these sort of two projects that you might work on in September. Like what's your gauge of decision making? Like how do you, you know, ultimately commit?
I think not necessarily at the point where I can decide what to commit to, typically it's what am I most motivated by? What am I most motivated by? And what is getting enough traction and movement? You know, it's always taking like a little step. Well, let me reach out to this person and see if I can do, that worked. Okay, great. Then what's the next step? And, you know, kind of to see if it can build upon itself. But I hate that part of filmmaking. I absolutely hate it. If I could stay in
the creation, you know, genesis of a project where you're starting to have a concept come and you're starting to feel it and you're starting to have imagery and you're starting to write it down. And that's my, want to stay in that heart space as long as I can because I know the grind is coming and I hate the grind. The grind of, okay, I got to finish the script. You know, I have to, I have to put the hours in to finish this. I got to get the drafts out. And then the grind of production and pre-production and the grind of post-production.
And then the afterlife where you have to deal with the afterlife stuff distribution and you've got I hate all that stuff. I hate it all. I could say in the original, you know, creation phase, the concept phase, the fleshing out of the characters, the emotional space, I'd stain it forever. But yeah, mainly how I decide what projects and acts is like, what is what am I motivated by? What feels good? Like, yeah, I actually really want to get this hold. And then what is
Yeah.
Emily Lape (18:15.438)
picking up tractions and doing little small, know, fishing, throwing out the fishing line, seeing if you can catch and if it starts building, then I'll go with it.
Yeah, I imagine if you're like sending an email and someone's, you know, you're just shooting some log lines, you're just chatting over a drink and one just, you know, pops up and you get more information. people seem to be more interested in wanting to contribute to this, this story or this idea, you know, rather than this, this idea. So yeah, I think it's a long, long, long bit of finding those signals of info. I, yeah, I really
Casting too, right? I think about that a lot too. I'll start casting something and if I'm not finding the right fit, I'll just pull it. If I'm not finding the right crew, I'll just pull it. I'm not one of those artists that think my concept, my project is more important than anything and it has to be done. There's a lot of filmmakers that feel that way. like, just gotta make it, man. That's the advice they give out there. You just gotta go out there. You gotta make it. You gotta force it.
And I have just seen too many and been on set of too many productions that were forced. And it's a bad experience for crew. It's a bad experience for the actors. And well, great. You made your concept, your art project, and you made your film, but you burned a lot of bridges. And now nobody wants to work with you.
I think there's a sort of artistic perspective and like maybe your own personal sense of integrity of like, might take a little bit longer and maybe fray at your patience, but you would rather approach it through integrity rather than I just need to do this, to do this, to do this. So I can either be satisfied with it. Like completion is also a very valid need. think people might seek the movement and the growth of completion, but at what price? And if you notice that the price is usually you're miscasting someone, they're not having a good time or you're.
Mishu Hilmy (20:00.174)
crewing up with people who probably aren't the best for this set and then there's friction on the set. It's not worth that price. While some other folks might be willing to pay it. I think I'm more like you where I'm like, I'd rather take my sweet time than pay a price.
Yeah, I mean, it's horrible. mean, I was on that production, you know, a couple of years ago that it, they shouldn't have moved forward with it. And therefore it was a chaotic set, right? People were quitting left and right and they have to scramble and find a new sound person. You don't got anybody. You know, the producer walked out and, know, not paying anybody. I how can you pay people on a feature film? Short film, sure. It's one.
two or three days, four days of somebody's time. That's a weekend, a long weekend or something like that. But on a feature film where you're shooting 20, 25 days, it's absolutely ridiculous that you're expecting people to work for free. I don't care if they are just a PA and you're feeding them one meal and a 12 hour, 14 hour day. It's just like, what the hell, man? I'm not okay with that.
same, same, same. Like I think it's the, where the individual's ambitions can kind of make things clearly capitalistic. Cause it's like ultimately the producer, the director will get most of the fruits of everyone's labor. Like if you're acting in it, maybe you might get some bookings because you had a strong, you know, supporting player or lead player. But overall, I just remind myself like, this is all in service of one individual's ambitions.
So how can you create a set that's not just in service of my own ambition? Again, it takes time and integrity.
Emily Lape (21:34.222)
Yeah. And it's all energy too. If you've got a bunch of disgruntled people, you know, that energy on set, it's hard to be really be creative. And how it's just, I just think it's really rude to expect people to, to give their best work when you're not offering them some type of compensation, comfort, or even respect. That's the other thing is the way people treat PAs and people that are working for free. I'm like, the, what do think this is? You know, it's, it says a lot more about you than that person that's trying to break into the industry.
Right. Yeah. I think also reinforces either the sort of the cultures that are known within the industry and we'll reinforce a pattern of behavior from you as an individual to say, I'll do it at sort of any, any cost rather than like, yeah. Can you wait a few years for your ambition? Do you have that trust and faith? maybe, maybe not, but I think the longest set I've ever produced was like an eight hour day. And I really do want to, I don't know if it'll be.
sustainable, but I don't think I've ever shot more than eight hours because I just don't think it's you're going to get the best work once you start creeping past eight and eight is kind of a bit much in my opinion. I'd rather have four hour shoots.
Miss you. I love that. I absolutely love that. mean, that's the thing. I mean, it's so weird how it's this common 12 hour days. Yeah. locations an hour away. mean, I was basically Lucy is a loser. mean, most of the locations are an hour away. So you're having people work, drive an hour, show up, work 12 hours. Every day was 12 hours. There was very few out of that 20 something day shoot where we didn't work 12 hours. And then they're driving an hour back. Right. You know, sometimes you have 5 a.m. call times. So you're waking up at 3 30 a.m. I mean, I just.
I think we can get a lot more done. We don't have to light every freaking setup. That's the other thing. In shorter days, when you prepare and you say, you know what, I don't need a ton of coverage. Like I shoot barely any coverage. You know what I mean? Give me a one wide on sticks, panning. Great. Very rarely do I want to cut in close or cut in mid or anything like that. And so you don't have to relight everything and natural light is your best friend.
Mishu Hilmy (23:15.096)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think we're similar.
Emily Lape (23:38.638)
I mean, that's what's going to give you something beautiful to look at things that are lit. look honestly, it looks like shit most of the time. looks like it's TV drama.
Everything is too lit like wow everything is like what what is it?
Yeah, and you can feel that as an audience memory. Like the energy don't feel right. This don't feel real, you know? And so I think, yeah, like you can, you can do shorter days, even on a feature film, you can do eight, 10 hour days. If you do not have to relight every freaking setup, every angle, every angle you're relighting, spending half an hour, an hour relighting. Give me a break.
Right, right. Yeah, and I've had to talk to my DPs about that. And like that's like setting expectations at the interview phase of like when you are trying to crew up and finding those people who, you know, are aligned with those expectations. Cause you can say, look, I don't, I'm really not big on background lighting. Like the stories about the people in frame. Yes, you don't want noise and sort of artifacting in the background if you're shooting digitally.
but to spend like, you know, 15 to 45 minutes to make sure the bowls in the background are like well lit. Yeah. And that's like some, and that's an artistic integrity. think some DPs who are really value the image and every frame being a painting, I respect that. But then it's, you know, communicating up top and setting those expectations. But yeah, I'm pretty, pretty aligned with that spirit of knowing also coverage wise, like pre-production, like figure out what the story is and shoot, shoot only that.
Emily Lape (25:05.186)
Yeah, I'm with you. I believe in informed consent. can, can, you can, you can sidestep a lot of disasters and issues if you can give informed consent. I mean, it's very hard for me to find a DP that wants to work with me because I say, look, I'm going to do all natural light. Right. And I'm not, I don't want any lighting all. Like you can do kind of change the light bulbs on.
you know, lights that are already in the room and things like that, but are bouncing light maybe. Right. That's it. Because we got to move fast. Well, for me, I'm more interested in cinematographers that are thinking about the frame. Yeah. Thinking about the frame, thinking about the flow. That's what I'm more interested in. If you're just only focused on like, how can I light this perfectly? You can't make an indie film on a low budget that way. You got to wait till you're on big production, man. You're going to have all the fun doing that. Right. This is different.
Have you have you like sought out more documentary film DPS because that seems like they might be more adept and willing because that's you know a lot of doc is like this is this is the room we're in and we're just shooting that way I think probably find more collaborators in that space who would want to maybe dabble in narrative work.
You know, I haven't found too many just DPs in general that I've totally clicked with. I clicked with my first one, Justin Howe, a Mercy's girl, and he immediately was flexible, he didn't understand what I was trying to do. But it would be, I think, gearing up for anything I shoot in the next coming months. I would be probably trying to interview and take in meetings with folks that are either camera ops. I really like working with camera ops, to be honest, like DPs and cinematographers and stuff like that.
who had a lot of schooling in it, and schooling in, you know, to shoot. Sometimes I don't have the same language, you know what I mean? So yeah, but that's a good avenue I should definitely explore.
Mishu Hilmy (26:57.694)
Yeah, I think it's always hard to find collaborators, especially if you have very specific artistic principles. And it just adds to the layer of complexity. Because yeah, you know, the heart space of writing these ideas is very, you know, process oriented and fluid and personal, which is much more like probably writing a novel. But then once you start to add, it's kind of a curse. Like, why are we interested in one of the most collaborative expressions and mediums? Like, why couldn't I just be satisfied with writing prose?
or fiction or novels, but alas, we are in this bizarre world of wanting to create something that requires so many participants.
so many, I also, think if you can, you cut down your crew a lot. And that's the thing is like you said, when you're doing interviews is being true to what you actually want set life to be. Because I think there's a lot of people on, I've seen other writer directors be influenced by a first AD that's like, no, you've got to have these different roles and these different people. And a lot of young filmmakers and crew that are fresh out of film school really believe, I can only do this one position and I can't wear multiple hats.
So I think, you know, being true to what you want for the set and staying strong with that. mean, if you have a low budget and you're trying to make a project, you can't have a lot of crew. I mean, you've got to stay true to that and say, look, there's a reason why is I can't afford it. And so we're going to all wear multiple hats and figure it out, but I'm going to compensate you better. I'm going to feed you well. We're going to have shorter days.
Yeah, for you, is that more of a creative expression or is that more of a sort of production expression of like wanting things to be as lean as possible? Like is the principle more just the practical elements of this makes sense production wise or is there creative gains that you're like, no, this is why I really consistently prefer a five person crew versus a 25 person crew.
Emily Lape (28:46.094)
I think as an actor, I really love limited crew because the collaboration in the room, the energy in the room, mean, you having to be at your most vulnerable state in front of, you know, 15, 20 people. Some people are just standing there watching. So I think as an actor, I really love when it's like a smaller set, when there's just two or three people in the room. I think it feels more intimate and it's easier to kind of let go of
the real world and get into the headspace of the character. But I mean, as a production side, it's very important because I'm not working with million dollar budgets. I can't afford to have everybody specialized in one thing. And I just think it's a bummer when you're on set and everybody's just kind of standing around, joking around and being bored. You know what I mean? A lot of time to kill because you know the lighting because we're going to relight every single angle. So everybody else is just hanging out for two and a half hours. I think just from a
production point of view as well. It's important to keep things small at this budget, at least.
I sometimes get a little impatient when it's like, right, even honestly, I have really quick turnarounds. Usually I budget like 10 minutes per turnaround, at least when one of the short films and even when it's sort of just like a little bit of random gossiping during turnarounds. I'm come on, let's just, let's just get this light up and shoot. But yeah, that makes sense. And like, are you
Uh-huh.
Mishu Hilmy (30:10.434)
Do you act like, you more actively seeking acting roles or is it kind of just through references and through your relationships? Like, yeah, I want to kind of dive into a little bit of the acting side and how that's been going for you. And maybe even talk about your most recent approach to this feature that you've just been in.
Right. Well, I don't actively pursue acting. I did. I mean, when I was in my 20s, I lived in Los Angeles for, you know, eight, 10 years and was in school there studying with a monochobic and had a manager was out auditioning. I was a stand in for a lot of famous actors on TV shows, things like that and learned a lot. But I had a couple of bad experiences towards the end of my time in L.A. And I just said, no, I'm never going to be this vulnerable again. I mean, it felt like kind of a
this weird game that you had to play. I've always felt uncomfortable with pitching myself, marketing myself, any of that. Even the films I do, I usually submit to one or two film festivals. If it gets played, great. If it doesn't, then I don't care. I will just release it some other way. I think when I left Los Angeles and moved to Chicago, just...
had decided, well, I'm only going to act in works that I write or people I really, really, really trust in their work. And that's kind of where I'm at now. The last couple of films that I've acted in have all been from friends reaching out and saying, hey, you know, we read the script, you know, I've got a role in it for you and I'd like to see you do this role. And so then I'll read it and see if I can do it because I do put so much work into acting. It's really important to me.
to be truthful and honest. And if I cannot bring truth and honesty to it, I don't want to do it. so that's kind of where I'm at with acting as far as pursuing things.
Mishu Hilmy (31:58.03)
I don't want to get rid of this for the mystery or the magic of the process, but like when it comes to truth or honesty, at least for this most recent one, you know, you had like maybe two weeks to prep for it. So what's kind of like the work you're doing to capture that.
Lucy's a loser was really difficult because I'm not a professional musician and she had to be, you know, she had to be growing up her whole life. And so it was not only learning lines of a hundred and something page document as the main character, but also to get comfortable again with the guitar, the piano, singing in public. I had to perform like, you know, a rock show in front of large audience. I had to do that. You know, so it was, it was hard. It was really hard. mean, not having a lot of time.
to learn the instruments. mean, there's no way you can learn to be a drummer and guitar singer in two weeks. I was like, as long as I can fake it and make it look like it, they can change the sound later. But the truth and honesty part is, I never look at the other person's lines. The first time I read the script, I read obviously the whole thing for you. But then when it comes to memorization and getting into character, I never ever look at any other lines. Just completely black them out, know, redact them.
interesting
and I only learn my lines. And then, you I always tell people when they want me to do a project like horrible memorization, horrible. So I will get from point A to B and I will say lines as close as I possibly can to the way you've written them. if you're really attached to exactly word for word, you probably shouldn't hire me. And so that also adds some truth because I can kind of feel my way into the way I bring myself. And then I also bring how the character would say it.
Mishu Hilmy (33:39.342)
Yeah, you sort of get that the truth of thought, right? Versus like a person thinking and discovering what they're saying in the moment versus sometimes you'll, it's more prevalent in like watching TV. It's like, oh, these people are just like reading lines at each other versus like, yeah, there's a, there's a bit of flaw. People, people stammer and kind of discover what they say. And it depends on the genre or the type of piece you're working, right? A really tight comedy or even satire demands a certain tightness rather than something that might be a little bit more slice of life allows for the.
the truth or the discovery of those kind of expressions.
where I never get anybody asking me to do any of those other forms and other genres. It's usually just slice of life. It's always really a deeply emotional role. And so that's really hard. And I think that's one thing I always want from directors. If I'm gonna act, it's like, please have control of your set, especially for emotional scenes. Like I remember I shot a feature film in Texas and I was one of the leads and I had a couple of emotional breakdown scenes.
and you have to switch angles. They want a lot of coverage. So crying and being emotional for a couple hours and a perfectionist like I am, really want it to be truthful. So I really make myself go there. And then there's just people joking around in the background in between moving the angles. And you're just like, come on, this is so hard to stay in this head space. can hear you.
Right. Yeah. It's sort of, I think it's like creating the context of play and, play requires like safety and focus. And when you have these elements that are kind of detracting from either focus or safety, then it's like, well, I can't, also it's exhausting. It's exhausting to sort of, you know, create those emotional experiences and, have it come out of your physical human body.
Emily Lape (35:21.614)
It absolutely is. Thank you for saying that. Cause I think a lot of people don't get that. Everybody's working hard on set. Everybody's working really hard on set. It's just a different style. It's different. It takes something out of you to do, the actual performer. It's like you are working long hours just like they are, but you're also, you're not just focused in on a technical aspect. are, you have to hold technical stuff. I mean, you have to know where you're going to land and the lighting and all these things going in your head while you're performing at the same time. And yeah, I mean, not to be a big.
baby but yeah it can be exhausting especially emotional scenes fun scenes and lighter scenes and quick establishing shots who cares you know
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think also that's something like I try to talk to actors about and get a sense of what they think is the hardest, most difficult moment in any scene or any part of the script. And what do they think is the most important? Cause sometimes I'm like, I didn't realize they thought.
For them, this is the most important moment. I didn't clock it. I thought it was kind of tertiary, but now that they spoke about it, I'll make sure to give a little bit more time in the shoot, shooting schedule or a little bit more emphasis. But I think like, yeah, things that are more like, all right, they're just opening a drawer. Like we're having one angle. There's going to be one angle on this and two takes and that's it.
No, I agree with you. I love that question. You know, what's the most important and what do you think is going to be the most, you know, either hard or emotionally harder. But I wish more directors ask questions like that. Or how do you like to work or what's most important thing on set for you to have? Is there any stylistically, what can we do to set you up for success? You know, things like that. Why not have those conversations?
Mishu Hilmy (36:56.556)
I try to do that during like the interview or the offer, the role offer portion. like some, I'm trying to figure out how they like giving notes. Like some might want like a really just private whispered notes while others are like, you can just shout at me from the camera, but to at least clock, you know, what someone's preference is as early as possible. So I'm not using the same sort of approach. Also, my directing is pretty lazy. It's like, you know, chin down a little bit faster. Like that's, think it's all in the casting. Like, like I just think 95 % of the job is casting the correct sort of point of view.
and then answering questions as they come up.
Yeah, I agree. That note of a little bit faster is just so commonplace. Yeah. actors just want to stew in it.
I don't make a, that's what I tried to learn. The metaphor is like, look, everything can't be a five course meal. This is one line and you're making it, you know, a five star dinner. Like, no, this is one bite of a potato chip at two in the morning. Like speed it up.
Yeah, I love that.
Mishu Hilmy (37:52.738)
Yeah, I'm like for at least this recent work, like how do you approach like the nerves or how do you approach the nerves of going on set as on the acting side? Because it's like clearly, you know, you don't have all the experience on the drumming or the guitar. So like what was what were your nerves like? Was the caginess, the nervousness? How do you how do you like self care and self regulate when you might be feeling nervous on day one or day 10 for any given scene?
think for like just physical, biological, like I avoid caffeine. I mean, that sounds so silly, it really just lowers the jitters, lowers the nerves a little bit, you know, trying to get something in your stomach so that, you know, your blood is focused on digesting. You can relax. You can breathe a little bit. mean, nothing wrong with having a little drink or anything like that, you know? I mean, like you just got to find a way to relax. I was, I'm always nervous. I've tried to take a deep breath and then I try to just like, as soon as something
As soon as they say action or, you know, in your time, let's go. And you just, all of it goes out the window and you're just there present and having fun and try to have fun. That was the thing with the performances. was like, this is something I would never ever do. I am so shy. would never want to be on stage with people singing or anything. So I was just like, well, you'll never get to experience this again. Just have fun.
Yeah. And the high I got from performing in front of people and the audience that was paid to be excited. It was the best feeling ever. was like, I could see why people get addicted to this. I mean, live performance and everybody's singing along and clapping and you can do anything. You can kind of joke around and flirt with the audience and play around and they react back in a positive way. Nothing beats that. And then I just had so much fun once I realized that that is what it's actually about.
Right. Yeah. I also just like, I had a thought around like, there's something about being on a set that A can give you permission to play, but B is also like a world of deviancy. It's like deviating from the norms. Like you wouldn't.
Mishu Hilmy (39:48.044)
be in front of a group of people, wouldn't be behaving this way, but because of the constraint of like, well, we're in this room, we're on this set, even if it's outdoors and there's like, people watching, know, bystanders watching what's going on. It's like the small world of deviancy, which I think is nice because you can like wear a mask or put on a hat that you as Emily normally wouldn't, but you given the permission because of the construct of this environment allows exploration and play, which I think is pretty, pretty cool.
Yeah, that freedom. think as actors, you're always taught so much to like bring yourself to it, depending on your technique. So then it can be in your head about it. It's like, this is me. People are looking at me and people are seeing me in this state, but it's really not. If you can't find that deviation from yourself and let loose a little bit, can be free in your performance.
Yeah, yeah, I think I used to do a lot of theater work and stage work and I recorded some work as well. And even like shorts that I was in, I was in maybe a feature or two way back, but when I would watch myself back, I'm like, well, that's not me. Those are just pixels representing me. So like, how are you when it comes to like watching yourself? I imagine you're pretty comfortable with it, but how's that, how's that experience?
Man, I have a mixed bag, a mixed feelings about it. I definitely do not like watching it with an audience or anything like that. know, on set, if one of the ways I like to get notes is if it really seems like it fits the situation, show me a take of it so I can understand how to adjust. Because I'm always asked in the director, is this the right tone? Because when you have a long film, it's like you're going to go to a next scene. Is this the right tone my character should be in? Because that's what I always want to know.
My at the right tone so that the next scene when it starts, you know, the carry through is there. But no, I hate, don't want to watch it with an audience like most people want to. Yeah. None of that. I hate the Q and A's. You got to get up on stage and I just get so, it's just an embarrassing, you just bared your soul and now you got to talk about it? Come on, what the fuck?
Mishu Hilmy (41:45.006)
I hear that. And then like for directing, like how do you deal with the nerves of, you know, being on set directing? I imagine there's a fair amount of adrenaline too, but like what's been your approach compared to say acting?
God, I love directing. I think because I acted for so long that like I really love working with actors and helping them get to that place that they need to get to and supporting them and all of that. So I don't know if I have a different approach other than I just the years of experience of what I would want to be on set. Then I try to exhibit and behave that way with the actors. I'm never nervous. Never nervous. I always am confident we're going to get the shot.
And because I don't move around a lot with the camera, really allows the actors to explore and sit in it and do long takes. that's totally fine because we've saved all that time from moving around and getting all this extra coverage. But now that's some of my favorite space to be in is to be directing and working with actors. Cool. Yeah. What about you?
Directing wise, I usually feel nervous like the first few hours. And then once I think the first shot and setup is done, I feel a little bit more relaxed. Yeah. But yeah, also once I got enough of like the footage where I'm like, I think we're going to make the day. feel a little bit more relaxed. Usually there's.
Okay.
Mishu Hilmy (43:08.52)
Every project I've had, there's two moments. There's usually one moment, like five days before where I'm like, I should just email everyone and just pull the plug. I just felt like this isn't going to happen. So that's usually like five days before production that happens. And then within the first hour of set, I'm like, yeah, this isn't getting done. There's no way, there's no way this is going to get done. And then just powering through those two moments. And then, yeah, I think each project I do find different ways to have play, but I find that I'm most authentic on set, like a version of myself that is like,
Thank you.
Mishu Hilmy (43:38.08)
my default state is like the most genuine, relaxed kind of version I am versus I think sometimes I'm a little bit just in my, I think it's like getting out of my head, which I like being on set because it is so focused. So yeah.
That time crunch thing is very real. You know, you have location for so long and sometimes you can't get that shot that you wanted, you know, or that take you wanted. You have to let it go and hope you'll find it. You know, in the Edgid Game Room.
Yeah, I think that's pre-production is so important to me of like really knowing what the editing pattern is going to be. So then I'm, I have a sense of like how I even want most of this to be cut or knowing what's the point of view of this scene or this story. So then I'm not wasting time. Like I don't need to shoot this person's reaction because it's not their story. So why would I wait, waste kind of, you know, 15 to 25 minutes and getting a reaction shot.
I think that is a common mistake that happens early on in people's endeavors is they're trying to get so much coverage and I think it ends up biting them in the butt because you don't really need it.
Do you find that you actively try to stretch yourself? writing or producing or directing that like little experiments to challenge yourself like growth wise?
Emily Lape (44:48.588)
Yeah, I think for writing like with Abbeque, know, there's like mystical, magical elements to one of the characters and to be able to freely write without necessarily considering how that will happen once we back inside. It was kind of one of the first for me because usually I write with thinking about where could I shoot this? You know, I've got a notebook of ideas of stuff that, you know, I'm not thinking that way.
But then I have stuff that's actually practical that realistically will get made where I am thinking about, how does this fit and where could I shoot this at and all that. But with AVOCUE, are these practical effects that I knew was going to be hard, you know, because there's a sci-fi element to it and how are we going to make that happen? there's animation and all sorts of different things. And so I think I do try to push myself a little bit here and there and like let go of always with the
budget filmmaker.
Yeah. Yeah. It's total inhibitor. Yeah. Yeah. I relate. It's like, most of my scripts, I just kind of start from thinking about, this be made? So I tend to sort of, know, there's creativity within constraints, but I do think there's something to be said about the exercise of truly writing freely versus like, I'm not going to write these night scenes or these party scenes. Cause like, I don't want to have to cast 45 people and find a place I can store all.
Yeah, whatever.
Mishu Hilmy (46:13.676)
all the props. yeah, stretching wise, think experimentation is usually the way to go for me of like, I have like a little generator that I like use HTML code to just give like random genres, random number of locations and characters that helps me just experiment to flex. But I like to think each project is like growing and expanding on the one before, whether it's a slightly larger crew or a different theme that I haven't felt comfortable exploring. So I try to integrate that, but I think lately I'm really just thinking more about volume.
of like, can I make as many small things as possible to get back to the lack of preciousness and the lack of perfectionism? Cause I think it's so hard when this is such a resource, intensive energy, intensive money, intensive venture to go like, well, how can I do this as small and dumb as cheap as possible? And like text my friends go, Hey, you want to meet up in my backyard and do a half page fuck around. And that's where I think my head's at for the next, hopefully year and a half to just get back to the joy of volume.
Yeah, I love that. have a couple of other filmmaker friends that are in that same mindset. They're like, hey, fuck it. Why am I making this so precious? Yeah. Just go shoot a short film and like, let's have an outline. Like, let's script. Let's just have a concept of an idea and, you know, where we want it to go and some beats and let's go out and film. But I'm curious. I don't know how much more time we have, but I'm curious to hear, Michi, like about your, like, when a concept of a genesis of an idea comes to you.
Yeah.
Emily Lape (47:41.036)
Does it come in imagery or is it come from something you see from, you know, real life? Is it like confessions? Cause I often feel like when I write, I'm like writing confessions from my life and I don't even realize it until I'm like, like Mercy's girl, look at Mercy's girl. Holy shit, there's so much of that. I didn't even realize I was putting it into this film, it's from little confessions from my life. So I'm I'm curious, how does it all start for you?
I usually don't realize the confession until like picture lock and I see it and I go, whoa, this is like revealing the subtext or the kind of subconscious that, you whatever hangups I've had, but I don't think I'm very image oriented. I think maybe all the theater work is more language oriented. So usually it happens through a concept, just concept will either come to me and what is usually happening is like, I'll be thinking about something a lot.
And then something external, I might be walking around and see like a fender bender and people like doing selfies in front of it. And then it's like, okay, the concept that I've been thinking about for the past few months, plus this weird image has just sort of locked in what the idea actually is. And then that's the nugget. So it's a mix of like meditating on it for a while. And then some sheer luck might kind of crystallize it. So that's usually what's excited me about something. I think I remember reading about debt a lot.
And then reading about zombies or like just something about zombies came up and then I thought of like a script around a body horror where this woman decomposes as she accumulates more debt. So that was just like a concept that came from two separate things sort of falling into place.
Wow, that imagery, that could really stick with you. Yeah, yeah.
Mishu Hilmy (49:20.002)
Yeah, But given how uncertain the industry is and the work is, what do you do to stay joyful or motivated or connected with either filmmaking, creativity? How have you been taking care of that when it comes to extreme uncertainty?
Well, I don't think I've ever thought too much about industry at all, ever. Because I feel like this is like a personal expression, a creative expression, mostly focused on what I want to express and not how the industry or finding ways to make it happen in connection with the industry. The way I've kind of the uncertainty just about life and politically and all that stuff is I try to connect with the community as well. Like I really love going to like film events.
meeting people, attending panels, trying to participate and, you know, show up for people's screenings and show up for different festivals in the neighborhood and stuff. That gives me so much hope and, and inspires me. mean, I always walk away from there, like energized, like, all right, shit, I'm to go out and make some too. Like, what am I doing? You know, just, you know, harping on myself and trying to be perfect and make this script perfect. I just need to let go. There's a lot of shit work out there.
I can probably make some a little bit better, right? Or, wow, that thing was amazing. I can't believe they made that for that budget. That's so inspiring. And wow, that actor was really good. I'm going to write something just for that actor because that actor has inspired me now. And so I think that's where I find my hope is just getting back with community and connecting with folks. How about for yourself?
For me, motivation-wise, I try to just keep it small. I think that might help me. When I get to thinking too large, the whole macroeconomics of it all, the global political hellscape we're living in, that's very big thinking. If it's an antidote, usually it's like, okay, is there water in front of me? Can I drink that? Is there a keyboard in front of me? Can I start writing? Is there a legal pad? Can I start writing?
Mishu Hilmy (51:24.912)
so that, that usually helps, and getting closer to action versus thinking. think the more I think about something, the less I'm going to act on it rather than what's worked for me in the past is I put up a casting notice where the due day is like, all right, you got to send in your headshots three weeks from now. And then I realized like, God, I don't have a script. So I need to write, like, I might like put on like a one.
page side of like nothing. All right, now I need to write this thing because, you know, the hundred actors have just sent in headshots like that, like the action of tricking myself. Yeah. I'm very, think there's something about social pressure that helps me get something done.
Anger can also be innovative for me. mean, different funding, like meeting with different producers. I can't even tell you how many weird conversations I've had with people that want to invest in film. I mean, just odd balls that have money that, and some of them are great. Oh my God, some of the best investors I've gotten a chance to work with that are just like, I trust you. I've read the script. I like the project. Here's my investment. But then you have other ones that want to give you their two cents on everything.
And I've met with potential investors over coffee who've, you've sent them the script and they've only read like the deck or the synopsis. And they're like, oh, well, an older cis white man telling me, know, lesbians don't want to see a drama. They want a comedy. You know, when I showed him Abiquiu and he's like, I don't think you have an audience for this. He's like LGBTQ, like what's hot right now is comedies.
And I'm like, well, that's not what this script is about. Why are we meeting? You know what I mean? So I think that anger of being like somebody telling me, you know, they don't want to see this. Nobody wants to see this or just I don't get it or you can't make it for this amount. Then it motivates me. I'm like, really? Let me show you. Then I get my wheels start really spinning where I'm like, OK, I got to prove it to you and everybody else and to myself that I can make this film that I'm going to.
Mishu Hilmy (53:27.02)
I believe in that. It's like, use whatever works. And then I think earlier, this just kind of came to mind was like around maybe not enjoying the sort of, I think you're talking about being in LA and also earlier, like the sort of self-promotion elements and maybe even the shame elements. how do you deal with, you know, sending out an email asking for kind of support or crewing up or finding investors when there's also the counterfeeling of like, I don't want anyone to see this. I only submit it to two film festivals. You know, how do you navigate maybe the shame or the self-consciousness or the insecurity of?
I want to express myself, but I don't want anyone to see that expression.
think my shame isn't connected to I don't want anybody to see it because I'm embarrassed of it. It's definitely not that. Most of the scripts, if I'm going to send it out, I'm very confident and I believe in it and I think it's fantastic and I'm proud of it. So those emails to investors, the thing that makes me uncomfortable is asking for money. Yeah. You know what I mean? And like that feels always ick to me. the crewing up and everything, I've never had any problem.
with that like, hey, this is the script and I'm read it. Tell me what you think. If you want to be a part of it, we can have a conversation. the sitting in the audience and watching it and why I only would submit to a couple of film festivals is for me, it's like I want, I guess I want people to watch it. But then also part of me is like, experienced what I wanted to So like I've gone through my process. It's been like painting something and then.
Did it.
Emily Lape (54:55.822)
going and watching people stare at it. It's just like why? I don't care. My expression was in the actual painting of, you know, the creation of it. And so for me, just the shame part comes from when I can't do something up to the ability I want to do. You know, like with my first film, Mercy's Girl, like I'll rewatch it and I could barely rewatch it because I'm like, oh, this could have been better or this could have been tighter or.
You know, I made the thing for $20,000. So also, just reading reviews on it. It's like just the high and the low ratings. It's just, it's better honestly for you as an artist to not care about that. Totally. You know, to protect yourself and protect future works. It's better not to attend screenings. It's better not to, you know, read reviews and all that stuff. So I think that's where it comes from for me.
that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, the labor is the reward, right? Like you were present with the process, the ups and the downs, the pains and the excitement of like being on set, writing the script, getting the crew, acting, directing, cutting it, editing. So like that was the reward. And then I think the more emphasis you put on the publishing or the publication of it and seeing the reviews and it seeks, ceases to be about like the experience of doing it and making it.
and becomes more about the perception of it being done, being completed. And that's where it just becomes like a weird, painful ego trip of like, well, this person gave it a five stars on letterbox. This person gave it a three. This person had a snarky one star hot take that I'm like, okay, I guess. So just like to avoid that trap.
Yeah, understanding that that's all fickle too, because I mean, like, know, the like negative reviews can be like, oh, there was no content warning. Well, like I sold that film in 2018. I got no control of any of that. Like I have zero. And at that time, you didn't do content warning. So, you know, it's got.
Emily Lape (56:45.838)
like a new generation of viewers that are watching a film that was made in 2015 when same sex marriage wasn't legalized. And like, well, this feels out of date. Well, the film was made in 2015. It isn't 2025. And you know, things like that. So you have to just take it with a grain of salt. It's like, oh, this is just fickle. And then just same thing with the positive reviews. People will be like, oh, this is genius. And Emily is the filmmaker of our time. And blah, blah. You just got to let that go, too.
Yeah. I honestly get more bothered by praise. Maybe that's my own hang up I got to talk to a therapist about, it's just like, don't, I just don't want to deal with it. I don't want to deal with it. Like just, okay, thank you. Yeah. It's like, terms of your process, do you actively like think about subversion or taking risks? Like what level of risk taking or subverting expectations, subverting cultural norms is like part of your.
creative process, whether from the beginning to the directing to the editing to the release, like, do you actively think about risk and subversion?
I don't think I actively do. think it's a subconscious thing. Like I like to push buttons, you know, a little bit. My whole thing is just presenting a slice of life. Like my favorite filmmakers, Ken Loach, who would think that it would be, you know, revolutionary just to create film that it's just this little slice of life about social issues. And that's what gets me going. And I saw one of his first films I ever saw was called Sweet 16. And it, it blew my mind that there was even people making stuff this
that wasn't so commercial, wasn't so stereotypical and market tested and all that crap. So I think that's where I like to push the boundary is like, you know what, I know everybody's going down this way and trying to make some money off of it and gonna really think about the audience experience. Well, I'm the opposite. Like I care about this issue. Like currently writing something that takes place in Thailand to do with like sex tourism.
Emily Lape (58:34.094)
kind of the child adoption into sex tourism and all this slavery and shit. You know, that's a social issue that like, that I want to shoot in a kind of narrative documentary style of this experience, a slice of life. So I think that's the way that I kind of try to put some, you know, rebellion or change things in my own way is just do something a little bit different than everybody else.
Thank you so much for sharing Emily and it's been a real delight getting to talk.
Yeah, Mishu, it so great to catch up and hear what's going on with you. Thanks for having me.
Mishu Hilmy (59:09.774)
Before sending you off with a little creative prompt, I just wanted to say thank you for listening to Mischief and Mastery. If you enjoyed the show, please rate it and leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. Your support does mean a lot. Until next time, keep taking care of yourself, your lightness, curiosity, and sense of play. And now for a little Mischief motivation. Creative prompt time, here we go. Write down one project that stalled that you cared deeply about.
and then list three ways you could make a smaller, scrappier version of it this year. See if that's possible. Just a little brain exercise to see what you can do that can make it happen that might be smaller in scale or heck, even a different medium. So flex those creative muscles. Think about a project you care deeply about and different ways you can make a scrappy version of it. Hope that's a fun exercise. All right, I'll see you at the next one.