Pete Wright:
Welcome to How To Split a Toaster, a divorce Podcast about saving your relationships, from TruStory FM. Today we're going to set your toaster straight.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show, everybody. I'm Seth Nelson. As always, I'm here with my good friend, Pete Wright. Pete-
Pete Wright:
Oh.
Seth Nelson:
Today we have a special guest on the show. So excited. Big number 53, the center for the 2014 Florida State Seminoles National Championship football team, Sterling Lovelady. Sterling also happens to build cars, and he has a day job. His day job... Is he professional football player? No. Is he in the NFL? No. He has a job as an attorney at NLG. Sterling's goal for today is to explain why everything I say is wrong about Florida family law. Misconceptions to make you smile, Pete. Sterling, welcome to the Toaster.
Sterling Lovelady:
Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.
Pete Wright:
Oh, Sterling, I know you've had such an illustrious career as an athlete. Now that you're on the podcast, does it feel like you've really arrived?
Sterling Lovelady:
Feels kind of like the opposite. That sounded really cool until you got to my day job, but now I'm here.
Pete Wright:
We're answering a prayer today. When I say prayer, what I really mean is a comment. A listener comment came in, wondering if we had ever done a show just addressing some of the common misconceptions about divorce in Florida.
We read this comment last week on the show. We are going to go ahead and answer that listener by going through not only the misconceptions that the listener posed in the question but even more.
My goodness, we have a lot of misconceptions. I have a feeling we just are going to kind of speed-round our way through these questions and hope to get some good answers. Seth, do you have any guidelines for approaching these misconceptions or?
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, I think the main thing for the listeners to understand in today's show is that Sterling's going to try to say why I'm wrong. He forgets that I sign his paycheck.
Pete Wright:
Oh good.
Sterling Lovelady:
Can't wait.
Seth Nelson:
I want to be real clear about this from the front end.
Sterling Lovelady:
There's no wrong answers.
Seth Nelson:
That's right.
Pete Wright:
I feel like we should have some sort of points, odds on this. Every answer Seth gets right, he gets 5 points, and Sterling loses 10 or something. I still think Sterling might come out ahead.
Seth Nelson:
There's so many misconceptions. I'm so appreciative to the listener who wrote in and suggested that we do this show. Instead of me just blabbing on all day, I said, "Hey, Sterling, you want to get on the Toaster? We can talk about, really, phone calls that we get every day."
Pete Wright:
Perfect. We're answering the listener question. This should be a great bookshelf episode. If you ever wonder any misconceptions, this is the show. We're going to cover them. Probably not all of them, but we'll cover the ones that we hear the most. Here we go. Number one, we'll start with you, Sterling, as the car guy. If I buy a car in my name, then it's not marital property even if I'm married.
Sterling Lovelady:
Yes. That's a great start here. Very common misconception, right? People call me and say, "Oh, it's my car. Nope, she can't have it. It's my car." That's a huge misconception because, generally, Florida does not care about title. It doesn't matter who's on the title. It's all about time, right?
Was it purchased during the marriage? What funds were used, things like that. I get that comment a lot. "Don't worry about that. That's my car." Well, they have to back up. Well, when did you buy it? How did you buy it? Do you still owe money on it? How much did you pay? That sort of thing. I do get that comment a lot. Whether it's a car, or any other vehicle, or boat, or anything with a title, that is a very common misconception.
Seth Nelson:
It's the same thing with bank accounts or IRAs. Take an IRA. It's an individual retirement account. We're talking about equitable distribution, dividing up your assets and debts. Under parenting plan, equitable distribution, alimony, child support, everything else, this question is about equitable distribution, dividing your assets and debts.
Sterling's 100% right? In Florida, the deciding factor is not whether your name is on the title or not on the bank account, on an IRA. An IRA, individual retirement account. It's only in one person's name. If you're putting money into that IRA during the marriage, that is marital property. Upon divorce, your spouse would be entitled to half that. Same concept, different asset.
Pete Wright:
Okay. That is actually a great segue into our next question. What if I own my own business? Can I just stop paying myself to avoid child support?
Seth Nelson:
I haven't paid myself-
Pete Wright:
Clever.
Seth Nelson:
... for 16 years, Pete. I'm just letting you know.
Sterling Lovelady:
Can you, and should you? Two different questions.
Pete Wright:
Two very different things? This is a with-great-power-comes-great-responsibility kind of a question, isn't it?
Seth Nelson:
That's right.
Sterling Lovelady:
Yeah, exactly.
Seth Nelson:
Whenever you own a business... This falls under C, child support. That's where we are in our outline. The factors that go under child support are number of kids, how many overnights, and the big one: net incomes.
The answer to your question is you can try. It will not be successful because you're going to get a good lawyer like Sterling on the other side of your case that says, "Judge, they own their own business." Businesses that are closely-held corporations are highly scrutinized by the court. They're really looking at what's going on.
Just because you're not paying yourself a salary does not mean that you're going to have zero income. In fact, you're asking for a microscope to go through your business. Are you running Bucs tickets, Buccaneers, Tampa Bay Buccaneer tickets, through your business? Well, that's not a business expense necessarily, so that's going to be deemed income. Are you making your car payment? That's going to be deemed income.
You're just asking for them to really go through all of your transactions and pull everything out that's not really a business expense, and that's going to be deemed income to you. The flat, straight answer is no.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Well then, back to Sterling. Let's just see if this is at all related to ownership of cars. The misconception: I'm easily going to be able to get sole custody of my kids. Are kids like cars, Sterling?
Sterling Lovelady:
Not quite. I wish they were, but they're way more complicated than cars. No, this is a huge misconception. The term, sole custody... As we stand today in Florida, it doesn't exist-
Pete Wright:
Oh.
Sterling Lovelady:
... frankly. People say, "I want sole custody." You say, "What does that mean to you? Does that mean you have them 365 days a year? Does that mean you have them 360 days a year? What does that mean?" In Florida, we use the word, times-haring, rather than custody. The term, majority time-sharing, comes into play anytime one parent has more than 50%.
182 overnights a year is 50%. One parent oftentimes gets 183 overnights, and they think they have majority custody. They really don't. It's 50/50, but there's an odd number of days in a year. No, getting sole custody, what people call, is virtually impossible. The other person would have to be incarcerated, or severely mentally ill, or have some other major problem to cause the court to strip all of their time-sharing away.
Pete Wright:
Okay. This relates to another one a little bit later on the list. Let's bump it up here. Seth, Mom always gets custody.
Seth Nelson:
Nope, same thing Sterling's talking about. In Florida, we're on P, parenting plan, now. There's parental responsibility. That's how decisions get made for the children. There's time-sharing. Where do the children spend their time?
Just in the phrase, time-sharing, it says that the children are going to share their time with the parents. Even though we're talking about Florida family law, which we need to let people understand that in Hillsborough County, we're in the 13th judicial circuit. If you don't agree with what the judge does, it gets appealed to the second district court of appeals. We have six different court of appeals.
Depending on where you are in the state, there could be different variations on how the law is applied. Even though we're talking about Florida family law and we said we're not going to have to say, "Check your local jurisdiction," sometimes something that happens down in Miami is different than Jacksonville. Jacksonville is different than Orlando. Orlando might be different than Tampa.
You have to still check where you are. Generally speaking though, no. You have a parenting plan which includes parental responsibility, time-sharing, and Mom does not always get, quote, unquote, "custody".
Now how much time-sharing will one mom get over another? It is fact specific. There's 20 different factors that the court looks at. If you had two judges watching the same case, they might come up with two different answers because they have a lot of discretion.
Pete Wright:
Another related question: the parent who gets custody of the children will not be able to leave the state without the permission of the other parent. Is custody like parole, Sterling?
Seth Nelson:
Well, Sterling should know this since he was out on parole, so that's a good one for him.
Sterling Lovelady:
I didn't know where you were going with that, but that's a different podcast. No. There's sort of two ways to look at this. As soon as someone files for a divorce or even in a paternity case, there are certain restrictions on what you can do and what you can't do until that case is over.
If you leave the country in the middle of a divorce with your kids, there's going to be problems that people don't know where you're going. After the divorce is finalized or after the paternity case is finalized, your settlement agreement or your court order's going to dictate what you can do and what you can't do.
Generally, parents agree that they can each travel with the children outside the state, even outside the country, most of the time, with the kids during their time-sharing. There are just certain parameters, right? You got to give the other parent notice.
Generally, you got to give the other parent a timeline, addresses, things like that, and where you're going. Can you leave the state without telling anyone and never come back? No, you can't do that, but you're not restricted, generally, to where you can go.
Seth Nelson:
The only thing I would add to that is we're taking this question as if someone's going on vacation and coming back. If you want to move more than 50 miles from the home that the children were in and that you were in at the time of the final judgment, that's called a relocation case. Then you have to go back to court and file.
That's not just out of the state. It's over 50 miles. If you're living in Tampa, and you get a great job offer in Miami, and you want to bring the kids with you, you have to go back to court and see if they'll allow you to relocate to Miami.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Let's talk a little bit about attorneys. This is another one of those questions that came in in the middle of the... or in the original comment. I'm entitled to an attorney in my divorce just like in criminal law, just like in criminal law. I feel like there's a gung-gung after this one. Sterling.
Sterling Lovelady:
I wish it were true, and I wish there were better resources in the state to give every single person in a divorce an attorney, but it's just simply not the case. You don't have the right to have an attorney appointed. If you want an attorney, you're going to have to pay.
There are very few cases where someone's able to find an attorney who's going to represent them pro bono or for a very low rate, but you have to seek that out. No one's going to hand you an attorney. Seth is not going to work for free most of the time.
I wish it were the case. I think there's a chance in the future for people to advocate for that, for better resources, for folks that can't afford it. It is not the cheapest thing you're going to do in your lifetime.
Seth Nelson:
There's only one exception to that rule, and you don't want to be in this exception. There's two types of contempt, generally. There's criminal contempt and kind of civil contempt. What I'm meaning by this is if what you're doing or you're being accused of doing can have you incarcerated, then that becomes a criminal proceeding within the family law case.
Pete Wright:
Then you're suddenly entitled to an attorney.
Seth Nelson:
That's right, because now it's kind of converted to a criminal case. For a good old standard divorce, what Sterling's talking about, what the question is really asking about, nope, not entitled to a lawyer.
Pete Wright:
You're entitled to an attorney... Sorry for the follow-up. You're entitled to an attorney if it goes criminal, but that attorney is not going to represent you in the divorce. They're representing you for the criminal case against you.
Seth Nelson:
Right, which would be a very specific... They have money. He's not paying child support. He's thumbing his nose at the court. Put him in jail for punishment, for incarceration, not just to purge, not to say, "Hey, we're not punishing you. We just want compliance." If it's compliance, we're going to put you in jail until you write the check. You don't get an attorney. If it's for punishment, boom, you would get an attorney. You don't want that.
Pete Wright:
What about the case of somebody who says in a divorce, "I don't even need a lawyer," right? "I don't need a lawyer. I can do this all myself."
Seth Nelson:
Sterling, have at it.
Sterling Lovelady:
Well, every time someone asks me that, I say, "Look, you ever been to the dentist, and they say, 'You know what? You don't need a dentist. You just get a pair of pliers, and you pull that tooth out, right? Just put a pencil on your teeth'?"
Pete Wright:
Awful.
Seth Nelson:
It's awful.
Sterling Lovelady:
I tell people this all the time. Do you have to have a lawyer? No, there are ways you can go about a divorce without a lawyer. There are forms through the Florida Supreme Court where you can handle it yourself, but there comes a time where you have questions. We get calls daily, these minutia questions, or you may be relying on something we're talking about today. You may believe one of these misconceptions is true, and you may be relying on that and representing yourself.
You show up in court, and the other attorney has the law. Now all of a sudden, you don't know as much as you thought you knew. At the very least, consult with an attorney. Can you do it without one? Sure, but I don't recommend it.
Pete Wright:
The dentist metaphor had me. You got me. That's okay. I need a dentist. I get it. Just staying on some of the lawyer questions, I can file for a divorce whenever or wherever I like.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, you can. It might not be proper, but you can file it.
Pete Wright:
Let's say I'm a resident of Tampa, and I go to Charlotte.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Can I file for my divorce in Charlotte?
Seth Nelson:
You can. You can absolutely file for your divorce in Florida, anywhere in the state. You have something called jurisdiction. Does the judge that you're in front of have the power to hear your case?
There's certain requirements that need to be met. In Florida, you have to be a resident of the State of Florida for at least six months before you file for divorce. The reason for that rule is we don't want people from other states looking at our laws and saying, "Oh, if I file in Florida, it's going to be more favorable for me. Let me parachute in, live there a day, and then file." If you're here, you have to be at least six months.
Then you have what's called venue. Where is it properly located in Florida? If you've been living in Hillsborough County, that's where the intact marriage was last done, is in Hillsborough County, then that's where it should be done. That's in Tampa. If you're down in Miami or Dade, or if you're up in Duval, and that's where you've been living, up in Jacksonville or Charlotte, all these other places or all these different other counties, that's where it should be filed.
Now, unless someone objects to venue right out of the gate, they waive that argument. Now the judge at any time can look at this and be like, "You're in the wrong court. I'm going to transfer it." Sua sponte on the court's own motion. They can kick it to the right county. Yeah, you can file it. It just might get kicked out to a different county.
Pete Wright:
Legal separation is the first step in getting a divorce. Sterling, misconception?
Sterling Lovelady:
Yeah, major misconception. I have lots of couples who filed for divorce and are still living together, who live together throughout the entire divorce proceedings. You do not have to do any sort of separation legally or otherwise.
Frankly, people ask about it all the time. "Well, can we just legally separate?" It's really a misconception in itself because it just means that you're living separate lives. The problem is you're financially and legally connected to this person. If this person runs up credit cards, or incurs debt, or commits a crime, or does anything, they're going to come looking at you because you're still legally married to this person.
That route is not generally something we even recommend to people. Look, if you're thinking about getting divorced, moving to another city and living there for two years before you file for divorce is not a good idea.
Seth Nelson:
That's 100% correct. Pete, here's why people get this wrong all the time. In other states, there's a requirement that you're legally separated for a certain period of time before you can get divorced.
For example, in Louisiana, I think it's a year. You have to be legally separated for a year. Sometimes it's 18 months. I don't know every state and what it is. Well, I just think the pain goes on longer because we've talked about this on the Toaster. Divorces take anywhere from 6 to 18 months.
Imagine being separated for a year. Now in that time, you hope they're either, one, working on reconciliation, but if they're really getting a divorce, at least working through and trying to get an uncontested divorce. You're working out the parenting plan, a marital settlement agreement. You're dividing your assets and figuring out the alimony and child support.
If at the end of that year, you haven't resolved those issues and then you got to get into the court system, that's just going to prolong the misery. Fortunately, in Florida, we don't have that waiting requirement.
Pete Wright:
I got another one that I think you're going to have to define some terms here: no-fault divorce is faster and cheaper. Sterling, misconception? What is it?
Sterling Lovelady:
Yeah, it is a misconception because every divorce in Florida is no-fault. Florida in its entirety is a no-fault state. I get calls all the time where people want to explain to me why they're getting separated, which is fine. It's their life. It's their story.
Then I usually tell them, "I hear you, but it doesn't matter if he left, or you left, or what the reason was. Sometimes it can be an issue if there's some sort of domestic violence. That's certainly pertinent to the case, but if you just left because you don't like the way they look or the money they spend on certain things, it doesn't matter. It's a no-fault state."
Regardless, if there was cheating or whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter. Every divorce that you're going to file in Florida is going to be no-fault. The judge doesn't care why you're there. The judge doesn't care why you want to get divorced. If you want to get divorced, you have that right. Frankly, the reasons why... The judge may let you talk about it for a minute, but generally don't come into play.
Pete Wright:
It's a jurisdictional thing too, though. The implication is that some places, there are fault divorces?
Seth Nelson:
That's a great question. I actually don't know the answer to that question, Pete. I know that in Florida, under the statute, if there's infidelity, that can be a reason for the court to consider on an alimony award. I've never had a trial judge say, "I'm going to grant more alimony because someone cheated on somebody." It's brutal, man.
Pete Wright:
Sorry.
Seth Nelson:
Back to what Sterling was saying, the judge is not going to sit there and weigh all the evidence and say, "You know what? This divorce is your fault, husband. Therefore, the wife is going to get more money." That's just not how it works. All the judge has to find is that there's irreconcilable differences.
They'll ask you, "Is there anything I can do to get you back married? Send you to counseling or anything like that." "No, no, no, no, no," and that's it. When you see the celebrity headlines, "They filed for divorce in Florida," and they all cite irreconcilable differences.
I laugh about that because you're required to put that in your petition for dissolution of marriage. That has to be in the document. Every single divorce case ever filed in Florida has that magic language. When it's splashed across TMZ, I'm like, "Yeah, we do that in everyone."
Sterling Lovelady:
There are certain people that call, and I feel terrible for them, right, because they call you coming from a horrible situation, whether their spouse left them for someone else, and took all the furniture, and took all the money out of the bank accounts. I say, "Look, I feel for you. That's horrible."
You may want to give your spiel to the judge in court, but at the end of the day, it's only a really, really small piece of the divorce. While awful, we really got to get past that and find a way to look to the facts and into the transactional part of it.
Pete Wright:
You guys both dropped the infidelity thing, so I want to just ask a related question that's a little bit further down on the list: cheating spouses will be punished.
Seth Nelson:
No.
Sterling Lovelady:
Well, if punishment is dealing with divorce lawyers, then, yes, you will be punished.
Seth Nelson:
There you go. There you go. Better answer. One point for Sterling.
Pete Wright:
All right. At the end of the case, all inequities will be adjusted. That gets to, I think, both, probably behavioral implication and sort of marital assets, debts split 50/50, right?
Seth Nelson:
The problem here is that people are going through two divorces, the emotional divorce and the legal divorce. What people try to do is through the legal divorce, they're trying to get compensation for the emotional divorce.
That's not what happens in the legal divorce. The legal divorce is parenting plan, divide up assets and liabilities, alimony, child support, everything else. Nowhere in there does it say, "He was an asshole. He shouldn't have done this, this, and this. Therefore, you're going to get more monetary compensation."
Sterling Lovelady:
The problem there is the word, justice, right? What does that mean? That's client specific. That's all about expectations in the beginning, right?
Pete Wright:
Right.
Sterling Lovelady:
What does justice mean to your client? Sometimes you have to tell them, "Look, nothing is going to correct what got you here." It's not like other areas of law where if you put a murderer in prison, is that justice? Well, that's up for everyone to decide.
Really, in family law, I hear judges say it all the time, no one wins. One person might feel like they won because they might have gotten more money or whatever they asked for, but justice is really whatever you expect from the case or whatever you're looking to get out of it.
Seth Nelson:
Pete, Sterling and I have both been in front of judges when we're at a pre-trial conference, when you're making sure everything's set and organized for the trial. The judge is giving their spiel on, "Look, you still can settle this."
I had a judge look at me and said, "Mr. Nelson, who's the only one that wins if we go to trial?" I would have to say, "The lawyers." "That's right, Mr. Nelson. Why?" "Because we're about to make a lot of money off of these two parties trying this case." "Right. How do they avoid that, Mr. Nelson?" "They settle their case, your honor."
He would just grill me on it. "Mr. Nelson, what is your rate? How many hours are you going to spend going to trial? What is it going to be?" They knew to ask the other lawyer, "How much is your rate? How much are we arguing about, Mr. Nelson, in alimony? For how many years? What's the cost, benefit?"
He would just pepper me with questions, which was a way to tell the client that the judge themself thinks that they're wasting their time and money. They should go settle their case.
Pete Wright:
A common-law marriage is the same thing as a regular marriage. Now, Seth, I want to turn this to you because I know your fiance. Aren't you guys practically common-law married by now?
Seth Nelson:
No, and we've been together for 13 years. I will tell you, Pete. Just the other day, she laid down a broom. I was not jumping over that broomstick because I didn't know what that might mean, okay? No, no.
Pete Wright:
In the state of Florida, is there such a thing as common-law marriage?
Seth Nelson:
No, there's no common-law marriage. How many times, Sterling, have you heard it? "We've been married for six years, but we've been together for 16."
Sterling Lovelady:
All the time. Sometimes they even say, "It's my husband or my wife." I think you can get down the road and then realize, "I don't think you were ever legally married." Florida statutes just don't recognize common-law marriage. The statutes require that you have a marriage certificate issued by the state where you were married. There are some states where common-law marriage is recognized. Florida will not divorce you even if you come from a state where common-law marriage was recognized.
Pete Wright:
That is actually fascinating. I know I'm asking a question out of court, so to speak, but do you guys have a sense of how many states do, I'll say, still recognize common law? Because this is a huge misconception for me. I did not know that there were states who didn't recognize common-law marriage.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, you're not going to believe this. I just Googled it.
Pete Wright:
Save me a click. Thank you.
Seth Nelson:
It says, "Which states recognize common-law marriage?" The first answer is Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, and the District of Columbia. I have no idea if that's correct.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right. Well, that is a really interesting topic. In the State of Florida, no common law. That implies, if you want to get a divorce in the State of Florida, if you moved thinking that you were common-law from Colorado, you'd have to go back to Colorado to somehow get that taken care of.
Seth Nelson:
That would be my guess.
Pete Wright:
Well, if you're not really married, just move out.
Sterling Lovelady:
Right, right.
Pete Wright:
No judgment here.
Seth Nelson:
Pete says, "Take your CDs and move out," showing his age.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, take your CDs and get out.
Sterling Lovelady:
I think along with that, a lot of people think, "Well, if I move in together, and we live together, and we have joint bank accounts, and we tell everyone that we're married, then we're married." The bottom line is you don't get the best, you don't get the worst of the marriage laws until you have that marriage certificate, and you're legally married.
Pete Wright:
Seth, according to the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, about 10% of children live with a parent with an alcohol use disorder. That's got to make your skin crawl.
Seth Nelson:
It certainly does. It's something that comes up a lot in custody cases, but we've got good news about that. Whether you're the one who is absolutely, positively sure that your spouse suffers from alcoholism or you're the spouse that you say, "I am not an alcoholic. I can be sober anytime I want," we can stop that he-said-she-said scenario by using Soberlink.
Pete Wright:
Soberlink is fantastic and a great partner to us on this show. Soberlink, the device itself, is realtime alcohol monitoring. It's a device that has a facial recognition camera on it. You blow into it, and it sends real-time data about your use of alcohol to the people who need to know, your legal support, your spouse, to know that when it's time for carpools, when it's time for handoffs, anytime you're going to get behind the wheel with your child, that you are safe to drive.
Seth, I actually have a story. This is a new story for you because we always talk about the people, the spouse who's accused of having an alcohol abuse disorder or somebody who is accusing an alcohol abuse disorder. Actually, just last week, I have a dear friend who is recovering and said that they used a tool just like this.
Unfortunately, not brand, Soberlink, but a tool just like this that helped them get clean, right? It helped them remember, whenever they had to blow in that device, that they were doing it for their kids. I think that's yet another reason to really take this stuff to heart. You're doing it for the kids.
Seth Nelson:
Absolutely. We talk about Soberlink as being an independent, third-party verification in real time that courts love. That's just because we're talking about the divorce world here. Soberlink is certainly used to help people maintain their sobriety. If you have an issue, get the Soberlink. Do the hard work. It's hard work every day for the rest of your life. Spend quality time with yourself and with your kids.
Soberlink, we really appreciate you sponsoring this show. Sign up and receive $50 off your device just by going to soberlink.com/toaster.
Pete Wright:
Okay, next question: I can always reopen the divorce settlement at a later time.
Sterling Lovelady:
I wish it were true. I think it would produce a lot more business, but it's just not true.
Seth Nelson:
Because we're all about us.
Sterling Lovelady:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Always be closing, Sterling. Always be closing.
Sterling Lovelady:
There's a reason why this is not true, but there's sort of two different ways to look at this. The first is financial settlements. Generally, financial settlements for equal distribution cannot be reopened after the final judgment. They're final unless there was some evidence of fraud, or concealment, or something like that.
Settlements in terms of children or other terms such as alimony over a period of time, those can be reopened. The only way to do that is to file a supplemental petition for modification and then ask the judge to modify the existing court order. The burden is much higher on a post-judgment or after the final judgment.
I tell people all the time. They say, "Look, we'll just wait, and we'll come back. A year from now, I'll be in a better spot. I'll have a better house. I'll get more time-sharing." It's just not that simple, right?
You're in the best negotiating position in the original proceedings because after the fact, you have to prove that there's been a substantial, material, an unanticipated change in circumstance, generally, to modify a final judgment. Time and time again, the appellate courts have shown us that it's just not that easy. You have to have a very good reason to modify.
Pete Wright:
Since you started talking about the kids, I've got one more question about the kids in the divorce. You can withhold visitation if the other parent fails to pay child support. Seth, you want to take that one? Why are you-
Seth Nelson:
No!
Pete Wright:
What are you doing with your arms there, man? This is a triggering question.
Seth Nelson:
I'm doing my Kermit-the-frog arms. I mean, it's ridiculous. No, no. In fact, the statute even says, "If you don't pay your child support, you still have the right to see your children."
Pete Wright:
That seems fairly clear.
Seth Nelson:
But it's a misconception, right, Sterling?
Sterling Lovelady:
Yeah, for sure. Listen, one of the first principles I try to put in place and one of the first expectations I try to get across to my clients is the children are not going to be pawns. We're not going to say, "Oh, I'll give you more time if you give me more money."
Those two things need to stay separated at all times. We're not going to play the game where I'll let you see the kids if you let me stay in the house. It's just a very, very toxic way to get a divorce settled. Generally, when people play that game, it doesn't work out very well.
Pete Wright:
You cannot get a divorce if the other spouse does not want the divorce.
Sterling Lovelady:
Florida, again, no-fault state. All they require is one party to want the divorce. I think Seth mentioned it earlier. When you go in front of a judge, there's only a few things you have to explain to the judge if you're going to get divorced.
Number one is that you've been a resident and that you meet the residency requirements. The second thing the judge is going to ask you is, "Is your marriage irretrievably broken?" Now what does that mean? Frankly, I don't know. It's not really defined, but it's just one person has to say, "Yes, it's irretrievably broken."
Frankly, in Hillsborough County, it may be different in other places, but all the judge is going to ask is, "Is there anything I can do to fix it?" as if a judge was going to be the person to... I have never heard anybody say yes.
Pete Wright:
But the gavel is magic.
Sterling Lovelady:
Right. I've never heard anyone say, "You know what? When you say it like that, sure. Send us to counseling, and that'll fix it." No. Only one person has to want the marriage.
Again, there's really some unfortunate situations where one person is blindsided, and they don't see it coming. They have no idea why, and they want to slow it down. There are things we can do to slow it down, but at the end of the day, if one person wants to get divorced, you're getting divorced.
Seth Nelson:
Literally, what you can do to slow it down... We're not saying just delay for delay purposes because that's not ethical or proper. If we have a client that says, "I don't think this marriage is over, "We can file a motion to abate the case to pause, press pause, for three months to go to marriage counseling.
Usually, that will be denied, but we have to go through the legal process. We filed a motion, right? Pete, we've talked about this. You got to set it for hearing. You got to clear the date. That's three months down the road.
Just by filing a proper motion that our client is going to sign, verify, swear into it that they don't think the marriage is dead... They think they can work on it. Here's the counsel. They'll pay for the counseling. They'll do X, Y, and Z. They'll do everything they can to make this marriage work.
Then we get to that hearing three months down the road, we've delayed the process for three months. The lawyers have made some more money, and the judge will, 99.9% of the time, deny that motion because they're going to say, "How am I going to send someone to counseling if they don't want to stay married to you?"
Sterling Lovelady:
I'll say, I've had this work. I've had clients come to me, and they say, "Look, I really don't want to get divorced. I think we just need to go to counseling." We end up agreeing to abate the case, put it on hold, go to counseling. The client calls me two months later and says, "Look, everything is going really great. We're back together. We just want to dismiss this divorce." You can do that. You can just dismiss it.
Frankly, I love when that happens because it doesn't happen often. It's really cool, actually, to see people get back together after they go through this really difficult time. There are ways out of it, but it's just sort of the exception.
Seth Nelson:
Takes two though, right?
Sterling Lovelady:
It takes two, yeah. The only way you're not getting divorced is if you work on yourself and convince your spouse that the marriage is going to work because once the lawyers get involved, their goal is to dissolve it.
Seth Nelson:
Because that's what you're hiring us to do, is to get you divorced.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right. That's your job. You have one job. You understand the assignment. Can you explain the concept to me of dismissal versus annulment of a marriage? Is that a concept that exists in Florida, or is it jurisdictional?
Seth Nelson:
I'm going to rephrase it a little bit, Pete. It's so cute when you use those legal terms, so I like it.
Pete Wright:
Good. I did good. I did good, Dad.
Seth Nelson:
Annulment is the marriage never existed. That's what it means. It's like it never happened.
Pete Wright:
Can you do that at any point?
Seth Nelson:
You can file to have your marriage annulled. Good luck. Good luck. I've had some very religious people come to me and say they want to get their marriage annulled. I'm like, "It's really not going to happen," as opposed to getting divorced, which means you were married, and now you're not.
You said, "How is that different from dismissal?" A dismissal is, on any case, divorce or otherwise, you file it, and then you don't want to proceed with it, so you dismiss it. That's all that is.
Pete Wright:
I only ask because my own parents got married, had the marriage annulled, and got married again.
Sterling Lovelady:
Generally, an annulment-
Seth Nelson:
Now, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait, I'm not letting that just go by and have Sterling give some very talented, smart answer.
Pete Wright:
I don't know that there's a very good story there. They were young, and they felt stupid. They went back to the court. They were only married for less than a year. I think 10 months. They had the annulment and proceeded. Then they lived apart for a couple years, then got married again.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. I guess that's that story. Were you born during the first or the second marriage?
Pete Wright:
It's the whole story. It's not a great story. I'm the second marriage, yeah, but not very far into it. Let me tell you that.
Seth Nelson:
Hope Mom and Dad aren't listening.
Sterling Lovelady:
The annulment... People ask that, right? They want it to go away like it never happened. Generally, these are your Dateline stories, right? It was a void marriage, whether it was never legal in the first place. Potentially, the person that married you wasn't a priest or wasn't licensed to marry you. That could be an excuse. If you're-
Pete Wright:
We see it in the movies where one of the partners is underage.
Sterling Lovelady:
Right, someone underage or something like that.
Seth Nelson:
Bigamy.
Sterling Lovelady:
I've seen it, right, or the person was still married. If you're currently married, you can't get married again. I've actually seen that in my practice. In only six years I've been practicing, someone was legally married at the time they got married to this person.
Here's the problem. Sometimes you get the spouse that, financially, you want those marriage protections. The other person's trying to say, "No, it was void. I want it annulled." Then you're going to strip your client of their rights to equal distribution, the alimony protections, all those sorts of things. Sometimes even if it has the ability for an annulment or it's void, you may not want it to be.
Pete Wright:
All right. Well, thank you for the sidebar. Did I do that okay? All right.
Seth Nelson:
Oh, well done.
Pete Wright:
I believe we've already talked about this, but I just want an up or down answer. You can only get a divorce in the state where you got married.
Sterling Lovelady:
No, you can come to Florida, and you can enjoy our divorce laws, but you got to be here for six months. As we talked about earlier, you have to meet the residency requirement, and then you are free to file for divorce in Florida and enjoy all of the great laws we have here in the State of Florida.
Seth Nelson:
He says it so nicely.
Pete Wright:
I know. He really does. It's like the Las Vegas commercial. What, married anywhere, divorces in Florida. Fine.
Sterling Lovelady:
Actually, I've done one of those Las Vegas. They got married by Elvis. Wow, who did I marry? Let's get divorced in Florida now.
Pete Wright:
That's amazing. That's amazing. I had the job, so I get the retirement money.
Seth Nelson:
Nope.
Pete Wright:
Nope.
Seth Nelson:
It's pretty simple. When you are working during your marriage, that is marital labor. If you've earned money from that marital labor, and you save it or it is delayed compensation, which is what either a pension is, or if you put money away into your 401k and that money is growing, that's all marital money in Florida. Therefore, it will be divided equitably, which a lot of judges read that word, equitable, to be equal, and it's going to get divided.
Pete Wright:
I have a compound question. Please prepare yourselves. This is about alimony. The first question: only women get alimony. We're going to layer that one, so you can take them all. Spouses who make less money who were the stay-at-home parent are entitled to alimony. You will not be able to get alimony because you were married less than 10 years. We have some complexities in and around alimony. I hope we can take them all. Sterling, you want to start?
Seth Nelson:
Objection, compound. Oh, sorry. Thought I was in court for a minute.
Sterling Lovelady:
He's usually not that quick. All right. We can pretty much strip away, just to start off, from any question you're going to ask, only the man gets blank, only the wife gets blank. You can pretty much strip away all those misconceptions right in the beginning because Florida has done a really good job of stripping that away. It doesn't matter. Husband, wife, mother, father... You have the same rights. The law is neutral to the man and woman. The second one is if you're a stay-at-home parent.
Pete Wright:
Spouses who make less money, who were the stay-at-home parent, are entitled to alimony. That was it.
Sterling Lovelady:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Specific language.
Sterling Lovelady:
We don't start the analysis at did you stay home, or what job do you have? The analysis starts as do you have a need? Because it's two parts. Do you have a need, and does the other spouse have the ability to pay?
First of all, basically everyone that lives in the United States has a need. They're a few exceptions, I think, but almost every client we meet overspends. When you think about things like vacations, and car payments, and gas, and food, and everything, really, at the end of the day, most people have a need for more money. It's the American dream, right? How much money can I make? How much can I spend?
Then the second question is, if you have a need, does the other spouse have the ability to pay? If that answer is yes, well, then you have a valid alimony claim. It may be that the other spouse also overspends. We have to look at, what are they spending their money on? Do they really have the ability to pay you, or do they not? It doesn't matter if you're a stay-at-home or if you work. It's all about, do you have a need, and does that other person have the ability to meet that need?
Seth Nelson:
The way it works in that statute, Pete, is you first start, does a spouse have a need? What does that mean? It means, what are your expenses on a monthly basis? Then we look at, what can you earn or are you earning? If you're short three grand a month after you pay all your expenses, then that's your potential alimony.
Then you look to the other side, like Sterling is saying. If that spouse... Look at what they have to spend their money on, what they earn. If they happen to have $3,000 left at the end of every month before they get to put it away in a savings account, or an IRA, or a 401k, they have to pay the three grand in alimony.
Now those other factors that the court will look at to decide on how much that alimony should be, it's not just, what are your expenses? That's called the standard of living. That's not what we call a super factor. It could be, look, did this person stay home and raise the children? Did they interrupt their career because they kept moving to help support their spouse's career? Did they have a job before, but you guys made a decision for one of them to stay home or to take care of a severely ill child?
There's other things that will come into play for the judge to determine how much and for how long, which leads into, I don't get alimony unless I've been married for 10 years. That is wrong. You can get bridge-the-gap alimony if you've been married for a month. Bridge-the-gap is just to get you from where you are now to returning to being single. Think of it as moving money, getting an apartment, first month, last month's rent. It might go on for two years.
It could be rehabilitative alimony where you're trying to get someone to finish a degree or to get a certification so they can get a job to support themselves. It could be durational alimony. That can only be the length of the marriage or less.
For your 10-year analysis, if someone's married for seven years, they can get alimony for seven years. If they're 10 years, they can get 10 years. Then finally, there's permanent alimony which, as we've talked about before, doesn't mean permanent. What it means is you will receive alimony until either you get married, your spouse dies, your former spouse dies, you die, you get remarried, you get into a supportive relationship.
I call that shacking up with someone, mixing your money together. Or, eventually, if you earn enough money that you don't need anymore or your spouse doesn't earn enough to pay you anymore, then it can be modified. This 10-year rule, hard now.
Pete Wright:
We should clarify, we're not talking about child support. Different. We're just talking about alimony, right? Two very different calculations.
Seth Nelson:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
All right. I got just couple more questions. Is mediation mandatory, or is it a choice?
Seth Nelson:
I would say a little bit of both. We'll see what Sterling says.
Sterling Lovelady:
Yeah, I would agree. It comes down to the county and the circuit that you're in. In Hillsborough County, generally, it's mandatory, but there are some places where you don't have to. The problem is, why wouldn't you want to, right?
There are lots of spouses who say, "Nope, we're going to court. I don't care," but then I've seen those same people take a turn. When you get a chance to go to mediation, sit down, have a good mediator who's going to go back and forth, and help try to facilitate a settlement, I don't know why anyone would want to skip that step because it's such a valuable time to try to resolve whatever issue it is you're there for.
Seth Nelson:
The other thing why I jokingly say, "A little bit of both," the court can require you to go to mediation. The rule is you have to go there in good faith and try and settle your case. The court cannot make you settle. That's why it's a little bit of both. You're required to go. You're not required to settle.
I have seen people draw a line in the sand that I thought, "This is a mistake," and those people were my clients. I've told them it was a mistake. Some would then say, "Okay, we're not going to do that. Let's try to figure out a different way to get this resolved." Some people will just not move that line. Then we go to court, and things don't always work out the way you want.
Pete Wright:
How about, it's possible to say the wrong thing in mediation? Can you screw up mediation? Are there triggers that you have to watch out for?
Sterling Lovelady:
Not really. Seth, I've seen him screw up things before, but never a mediation. I'm kidding.
Seth Nelson:
He's talking about the lunch order.
Sterling Lovelady:
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No, listen. Mediation is really the safe place. You can kind of put layers on it. When you're meeting with your lawyer, that's the ultimate safe place, right? You have attorney-client privilege. Whenever you have a mediation, it's similar, right? You're in separate rooms, generally. You have a mediator who has confidentiality rules that they have to stick by.
When you're in mediation, the mediator cannot be called to testify in court as to something that happened. There are some exceptions if there's child abuse, or elder abuse, or something like that. Generally, mediation is going to be totally confidential.
Whatever you tell that mediator, they're not going to let it leave that room unless they get your permission, generally, the good ones. If you say something stupid, a good mediator is going to change those words and make it sound really good in the other room, and the good ones do that.
Seth Nelson:
The other thing to know about mediation, when I hear that question, "Can I say something wrong in mediation?" everything Sterling said, I agree with, if that question meant, if I say something in mediation, is it going to screw me in court? Sterling gave the perfect answer.
You can certainly say something wrong in mediation to blow up a really good deal. If you're really close to a settlement and then you tell the mediator something and say, "I want you to say that in the other room," and in Florida, they're required to do that, you could just be dropping a stick of dynamite in that other room that's going to blow up this deal. Be careful what you say.
The good mediators will say, "Look, you know your spouse better than anyone here. Don't send me over there just to piss them off because you're trying to settle your case today. You can piss them off tomorrow after you get it settled. Just don't do it today."
Sterling Lovelady:
The mediator and your lawyer should not just say whatever you want them to say. If they're doing that, and there are people who do that, they're really not doing you justice. I mean, they're not doing you any favors by just reiterating what you would say. You could represent yourself and do that. A good lawyer and a good mediator is going to turn what you say into something constructive.
Pete Wright:
We've got one more question that's on the list before I open it up to you both to see what corners we have yet to peek around. This one... I've been watching a lot of The Last of Us, and I'm a huge Walking Dead fan. I think this is the The Last of Us trigger for me. If you leave the marital home, it is considered to be abandoned by you.
Seth Nelson:
No.
Pete Wright:
It's not?
Seth Nelson:
Kermit-the-frog arms again.
Pete Wright:
We're doing it again.
Seth Nelson:
No. Listen, if your name is on that house, on the title, you own it whether you live there or not. You could not live there for six months. This happens. The client moves out. You go to court. My client says, "I want the house." You're going to explain to the judge why you think it's best for my client to have the house and all the reasons.
The other person says, "Well, they moved out six months ago." Then on cross-examination, when Sterling Lovelady is cross-examining that husband and says, "Well, isn't it true that there was domestic violence the night before she moved out, and you were arrested, and you were found guilty?" Well, that's a good reason to move out, right?
Pete Wright:
Mm-hmm.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, if you move out for safety reasons, if you move out because you just can't stand being there anymore, none of that is abandoning the house. You don't just lose the house because you moved out.
You have to look at the whole scenario, what's going on, and then figure out if there's equity in the house. You want to keep the house, and it's worth $500,000, but you owe $400,000. How are you going to pay their half of the equity to buy them out of their half? No, just moving out, you do not abandon it. Sterling, this is where you say I'm right, and Pete loves it.
Sterling Lovelady:
Yeah, 100% nailed it.
Seth Nelson:
Nice.
Sterling Lovelady:
You don't have to be a prisoner in your home, right? The problem is when people stay, because they say, "I'm not leaving. He needs to leave, or she needs to leave... " The problem is it causes so much tension because so many of these cases, these people have been married 10, 20, 30, 40 years.
All of a sudden, their worst enemy lives down the hallway in the guest bedroom. When people tell me, "I'm just going to move out," I say, "Great. This is going to reduce the tension. Don't worry about it. We'll get it straightened out as far as who's paying the bills and things like that." Man, so many times people stay, and it causes so many problems.
Pete Wright:
They stay because they think if they leave, they won't be able to get back in.
Sterling Lovelady:
Right, exactly.
Pete Wright:
It's done. Everything I learned about ownership of property, I learned from 1865, the Old West and squatter's rights. I appreciate that clarification.
Seth Nelson:
Oh my God, Pete. 1865... You just basically told your wife she's chattel. Do not do that. Have I taught you nothing on this show?
Pete Wright:
That's the turn.
Sterling Lovelady:
I don't know whose 100,000 downloads, but I'm pretty sure, probably, it's prompting you.
Pete Wright:
It's because of this, this kind of stuff, Sterling. Welcome to the big show. Look, this has been, I think, a very thorough list. I think you just taught me all the law, but what have we missed? Are there any big questions or assumptions that people bring to you that we haven't reflected on our list here?
Seth Nelson:
I've got one.
Pete Wright:
Sure.
Seth Nelson:
It's less specific to if then, then that, right, or if-then type statements. It's more, if I just tell the judge my story, they'll agree with me and give me everything I want.
So many people just want to get their story out. They think if they just get in there and just tell the judge their side of the story, that everything's going to be perfect. That's just not what happens in court. Most of our clients have never stepped foot in a courtroom. Everything they understand about the courtroom is from TVs or movies. It just doesn't happen that way.
Sterling Lovelady:
Yeah, I agree. A lot of times, people really... They hire you, and you go to court. Very few cases go to trial, but when they do, they sit next to you. They're really anxious, and they want to say things, "You don't know what they did to me."
I just give them a notepad. Look, just write it down. Write it down on the notepad. I'll look at it. I'll think about it. If I need to say it, I'll say it. I totally agree with Seth. The problem is usually less is more.
Another one... I actually had a call this week. It's about grandparents' rights. There's a big misconception that grandparents have a right to see their grandkids. Should they? Yes, absolutely. Every grandparent should have the right to see their grandkids, but Florida law simply doesn't support it.
A lady calls me and says, "I moved to Florida to see my grandkids, to be closer, and now my son won't let me see my grandkids. What can I do?"
Seth Nelson:
Move back to Michigan.
Sterling Lovelady:
Right, right. I said, "Pick up the phone. Call them, say, 'I'd love to see my grandkids,' because that's really about all you can do." In fact, if you start getting aggressive or showing up at their house, I mean, they could trespass you like anyone else, unfortunately. I think that's a big misconception and really kind of an unfortunate part of our laws.
Pete Wright:
But judge, the humanity of my case... You must hear the humanity of not being able to see the grandkids. When that statute is written, we'll report about it here.
Seth Nelson:
I've got one other misconception.
Pete Wright:
Sure.
Seth Nelson:
The big misconception is lawyers are the problems. Don't lawyer up. There's a lot of very talented lawyers that are settlement-minded that would love to be able to just help people through the process, and settle the case, and get it done for $2,500, $3,000, $5,000, and be done, and not go to trial, and not have the phone calls late at night, or people rushing to the school to argue over who picks the kids up first.
Yes. Are there bad apples in every profession? Absolutely. Are there some lawyers that are known in town for just stirring the pot? Absolutely, but there's other really great lawyers out there that are there to help, and to solve problems, and to try to get you through the process with the least amount of pain inflicted on both sides, and to help your kids. You just got to know who they are. You can tell when you're talking to your lawyer on whether they're trying to talk you off the ledge or not.
Sterling Lovelady:
Yeah, for sure.
Seth Nelson:
You'll be able to tell.
Sterling Lovelady:
I mean, I have people call me and say, "Look, we agree on everything. My spouse said, 'We don't need lawyers,' but I wanted to call one just in case." They have that curiosity. I spoke to someone last week, and I said, "Please just hire a lawyer to draft up the agreement," because the devil is in the details with these agreements.
I've seen million-dollar divorces done in handwritten agreements. I mean, it's insane. There's no specificity. There's no details as to what happens. That's a major problem. The last one, I promise, my last one, major misconception is I have 50/50 custody. I shouldn't be paying child support. Actually-
Seth Nelson:
Oh, that's a good one.
Pete Wright:
Oh, okay.
Sterling Lovelady:
Listen, do I agree with it in concept? It makes sense, right? You have half the time. Why should you have to pay child support? Florida child support, the statute... It requires the incomes, the overnights, the childcare expenses, and healthcare costs to be all put into the calculation.
The way I explain it to everyone is, "Look, if you make the exact same incomes, you have the exact same overnights, and all the costs are the same, child support, in theory, should be zero, but anytime you put an input into that calculation that's different, somebody's going to pay the other child support."
For example, the mother could have 50% of the time. She could make $100,000, and the dad makes $50,000. Well, guess what? Mom's paying child support. She makes double the income, has the same amount of overnights. Generally, Mom's going to pay child support. People are shocked by that. You can agree to something different, generally, but if you go to court, I mean, the facts are the facts.
Seth Nelson:
The problem with that misconception is they take one part of the mathematical equation, number of overnights, and to say there's no financial responsibility. When it's child support, it should say it's financial child support that's based more on the number of overnights than just 50/50, right?
Sterling Lovelady:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
We have these things that are just shorthand. That was a great one that wasn't on the list. That's a good job, Sterling. See, he's just looking for a little bump, little bonus, little raise, something.
Sterling Lovelady:
Whatever I can do.
Pete Wright:
Well, I know the real reason he showed up is so he could plug his TikTok channel. Oh, what are you doing on TikTok, Sterling?
Sterling Lovelady:
Believe it or not, I have very little involvement on TikTok, but I Instagram with 50,000 followers where I build cars. People rip off my content and put it on TikTok. I see people all the time.
Pete Wright:
Oh.
Sterling Lovelady:
Yeah, I see people like, "Oh, I saw you on TikTok." I was like, "That's awesome." In my head, I'm thinking, "That wasn't me, but somebody else is getting paid for my content."
Pete Wright:
They don't know you're an attorney.
Sterling Lovelady:
No, they have no idea. Listen, on the weekend-
Seth Nelson:
Tell them what you do on Instagram because it's really cool.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sterling Lovelady:
A little bit of my backstory is my dad and my grandpa worked on cars their whole life. I grew up at a racetrack. It's what we did, right? You just worked on old cars. I literally saw my grandpa take two cars and put them together. One was wrecked in front. One was wrecked in the back. Cut them in half and made one good car.
I mean, that's just what we did. We thought that was normal. We never had a new car until I was 16, 17 years old, I think, because I was leaving the house and they were reducing their expenses. It's just what we did.
I just have a passion for it. I actually have a 1968 Chevelle that was my dad's in high school. I pulled it out of the woods and started fixing it up. It just kind of caught fire on Instagram. People love to watch the build. I just do it on the weekends. It's my escape.
Pete Wright:
That's fantastic, Sterling. It's Sterling_builds-
Sterling Lovelady:
Yep.
Pete Wright:
... on Instagram?
Sterling Lovelady:
Yep.
Pete Wright:
We'll get the link in the show notes. That's fantastic. Man, I love that. I'm not handy, but a huge fan of car builds, so this is great. Hope there are, clearly, many others like me out there.
Seth Nelson:
Pete, you got to check it out. Some of the stuff he puts on there... My favorite is he'll be at a car show. The hood is up. Sterling puts a camera, so you can see the people looking under the hood and their facial expressions. They're all pointing and talking about what it is. I have no idea what they're saying. It's really cool.
Sterling Lovelady:
I took a Toyota straight-6 out of a Supra and put it in my American muscle car. Most people have no idea what it is. Even people that don't know anything about cars, I mean, just these live reactions and these genuine confusion on people's faces, like, "What is that?" That just kind of took off. I have probably, collectively 20 million views on those videos.
Pete Wright:
That's fantastic.
Seth Nelson:
That same confusion about the work that Sterling does on cars is the same shit I see when he gives me something to review.
Sterling Lovelady:
I know.
Seth Nelson:
I'm like, "What is this?"
Sterling Lovelady:
Listen, there's a reason why you put my day job last when you introduced me. I've done a bunch-
Pete Wright:
Right.
Sterling Lovelady:
Now here I am.
Pete Wright:
Not at all. I know we certainly appreciate you guys sharing your wisdom and answering these questions. Maybe not as rapid fire as we close in on an hour here, but hopefully, this will be useful for somebody. We'll put all the notes in the show notes. Make sure to check it out.
Check out Sterling_builds on Instagram, but not TikTok because those are stolen. You can learn more about both of these guys on the website, NLGfamilylaw.com. On behalf of Sterling Lovelady and Seth R. Nelson... Oh no! How am I supposed to say the tag?
Seth Nelson:
You got to do it.
Pete Wright:
America's favorite divorce attorney. Sorry, Sterling. I'm Pete Wright. We'll catch you next week right here on How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships.
Outro:
Seth Nelson is an attorney with NLG Divorce and Family Law with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different.
If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of NLG Divorce and Family Law. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
