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Join us, feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp, for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy thoughts as we make sense of the world around us. If you also want to create a more just and equitable world, please join us on the journey to Messy Liberation.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:00.657)
Hello, welcome to a very special episode of Messy Liberation because we have a guest today. Tell them who you are. Hi, this is me, Gus. I am the special guest. This is Gus, the special guest. He is my eight -year -old son and he has been wanting to learn about podcasting and try podcasting and has lots of thoughts about what it means to be a young person in the world today, right? Yep.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:07.387)
We do!
Taina Brown she/hers (00:13.984)
You are.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:29.361)
All right, so we're gonna have him join us for a little special discussion. We don't exactly know where this will go, but we'll see.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:35.243)
It'll be messy and that's the whole point.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:37.787)
That's right. There's no, there's no mistakes here. That's right. What did you want to talk about Gus? Mostly like racism and how it's problem. Other bad things like Donald Trump. You know, all that. Yeah. Yeah. What do you know about racism? like, whoa, the things. Like what? Like bad words, like.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:41.089)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:51.969)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:07.213)
actions over it. Well, what is racism? Racism is something bad to black people. Okay, yeah, that's one way of looking at it. It's when people think badly about other people because of how they look.
Yeah, and how they would feel. Yeah, okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:25.456)
Yeah, yeah. Have you ever seen that happen at school?
Becky Mollenkamp (01:30.285)
No, not a lot. I mean, got rare occasions. On the rare occasions, there has been some stuff that's happened? Yeah, really rare, but yeah. OK. And you have school at your school, you have kids of all different colors, right? Yeah, those. Yeah, which is great. He goes to a very diverse school, one of the most diverse elementary schools in Missouri and in our region in St. Louis. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:31.829)
Okay, that's good then.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:46.817)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:55.35)
What do you think makes people do or say racist things, Gus?
Becky Mollenkamp (02:01.713)
I don't really know. It's like their choice of act and their choice of their like decisions, feelings, like and how they would all do, how they would all feel. So it's because of how they feel? Yes. What do you think makes somebody racist? You're not racist. So what do you think makes someone else be racist? I don't really know. I wish I knew too.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:27.563)
If you could.
to Donald Trump about racism, what do you think you would say?
Becky Mollenkamp (02:40.529)
stop like make people stop being racist. How do think he could do that? Like make a law, something like that. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. You know, there would just be like a fine something like 50 bucks, not much. 50 bucks. Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:53.852)
Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:57.802)
50 bucks for every racist word or app.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:01.105)
Well, if you do it like 10 times in a row, you'll get like a fee, something like that. bigger? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's one proposal. Do you think he'll go for it? Probably not. I don't think so either. Yeah. If you saw someone doing something or saying something that was racist at your school, what would you do? Tell a grown -up something like that. Probably like report to the principal, something like that.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:06.206)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:13.714)
Eheheheh
Becky Mollenkamp (03:30.341)
Yeah, what do think the principal would do? I don't know. Well, you've never done it, so I guess you don't know, I'm curious what the consequences would be. Yeah. Yeah. When did you learn about race? Probably like two years ago. Yeah? Do you remember how?
no, not really. So I remember it was like in first grade. what about kindergarten though? You went to school and you saw kids that were different colors than you in kindergarten. I know. I felt that like, I didn't know that many words at that time, you know, I just knew the word. Yeah. So you just knew people look different. Yeah. But you didn't know anything else about it. Yeah. Yeah. I, that's, yeah, that's pretty normal.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:53.98)
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:03.624)
Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:16.816)
If you had a friend who said or did something racist, do you think you would feel comfortable talking to them about it?
Becky Mollenkamp (04:25.905)
Probably, only for like a certain amount time. But, then it just gets kinda awkward.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:29.125)
Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:32.613)
Yeah, it can be awkward to have conversations like that.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:35.641)
It can be. Do you think any of your friends would do that? Not too sure. No, they could. It's their decisions of life. Would you want to be friends with people that were racist? No. No. Yeah. I wouldn't either. Yeah. In your school, they teach you guys about character words. Tell us what those are. Respectful, responsible, caring, and persevere.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:57.403)
Oop,
Taina Brown she/hers (05:05.466)
Okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:05.841)
What about one that you missed out on that means you do the right thing even when no one's looking? yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:12.205)
Integrity, yeah, that's a good one. So character words are words that describe how you should behave. Is that right? Okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:21.807)
Yes. How do you think those relate to things like if you saw someone being racist? How would the character words help you? Integrity. You need to show integrity when no one's looking. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. That was one of my favorite ones. Perseverance is new this year. Yeah, we got be empathetic. Even on the lunchroom, they're still.
that exciting yeah yeah because there's a lot like caring wasn't it so they decided to make them the same yeah what do you think empathetic or caring what do those mean? empathetic? empathetic? I forgot what that one was we got rid of it yeah what was caring mean? caring means like being nice all the time that's practically the good side of racism the opposite of? yeah opposite of racism
Taina Brown she/hers (05:47.958)
you
Taina Brown she/hers (05:52.761)
Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:10.937)
the opposite.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:13.701)
Yeah. So empathetic means thinking about how someone else feels. So that might apply to racism too, right? Because if someone was being mean to somebody, you could think about how it might make them feel. How do you think it makes somebody feel? Like if one of your black friends, how do you think it would make them feel if somebody said something really mean about them just because they were black? Crying in corner of the room. Yeah. That would probably make me feel that way too. Yeah. So we can use it.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:37.045)
Yeah. you think you would defend them?
Becky Mollenkamp (06:42.513)
Probably yes. No, until that guy like quit. Until he quit doing it? Yes. Stop being racist? Yeah. I think that's important. The other thing that we talked about that you said you want to talk about once was about pride. Yeah. Yeah. What do you know about pride? Pride. Well, there's two versions of pride. One, like gay people. Yeah. And two, like
Taina Brown she/hers (06:43.289)
Probably, yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:59.79)
What about Friday?
Becky Mollenkamp (07:11.089)
Pride, you know, like you're having sympathy, pride, being proud of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what's our, I was talking about the other one about the LGBTQ pride. What do know about that? Well, I know some people are gay, you know, they could get made fun of, which is just like two bad things combined racism and LGBT. I don't know how to say it. LGBTQ. Yeah. It is hard. Eventually you'll get them all. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:17.112)
Mm.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:36.428)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:39.065)
So yeah, they could be made fun of for being gay. Yes. Is that right? Yes. Like we could. But is it right to do that? It's not. No. Okay. Yeah, I didn't understand what you were saying like that. That's okay. I got it. Yeah. So you, you have friends who have two moms, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's important for you to think about that. There are some kids in your school that I've noticed and on YouTube who say a word and they use it as an insult.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:46.879)
If not, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:57.591)
Thank
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:09.265)
Remember we've talked about Screw that. Screw that.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:11.34)
hahahaha
Becky Mollenkamp (08:13.393)
through them, I agree. But we have to learn not to do that, right? So if your friends use that word and say it as an insult, you know which word I'm talking about that your friends sometimes use? What can you say to them? No, just no. Just don't do that. Yeah. Because what does your mom tell you when I've heard somebody say that? Do you remember what I've said? No. No. Good. Well, that worked really well.
I said, I don't even remember anything. I said, you have friends whose parents are gay. Remember? And I said, how do you think it make your friends feel if they heard you guys, if they heard that? now I remember. Yeah. really bad person. Yeah, it would make them feel bad. So we can't do that. Like sort of like crying in the courtroom. Exactly. Same thing.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:54.628)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:59.605)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you you brought up a really good point earlier, Gus, about how sometimes you can be racist and homophobic, like be prejudiced or biased against gay people at the same time. So like if there's a Black person who's also gay or part of the LGBTQ community, you can act in a way, or it's not you, but some people might act in a way towards that person that is both racist
and homophobic and then that really makes things complicated because they're not just being mean to that person or judging that person based on how they look but also how they live their life and who they choose to love versus if you have someone who is white and is gay right someone could be just homophobic to that person but not racist to that person right and so then
It gets a little complicated as we get to know about different people and different cultures.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:59.013)
Yes. Yeah, because there are, do you know, what are other things that people get made fun of for? normally like being weird, like at my school. mainly cause like people don't like them as much. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You have kids with disabilities at your school. Do they get made fun of? No, not a lot. Good.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:25.951)
That's good. That's good to hear.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:26.329)
Sometimes that can happen. That's something that people sometimes have that you can discriminate. Do know what discriminate means? No. Hmm. Hard word to describe, isn't it? pick on someone because of something about them. right. And so that we talked about race as one thing. We talked about queer, gay. Right. That's another disabilities, something that people get.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:29.994)
Mm -hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:34.131)
Mmm. Mm -hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:55.269)
will get discriminated against being fat. That's something that people get discriminated against. That doesn't happen a lot at school. Not at your school? Good. Religion, people who have different religions, like kids who are Jewish or Muslim or that doesn't happen either. That's great. It sounds like your school's doing a really good job. Hopefully you guys can continue to do a good job. Hopefully. Maybe you can be a part of that. What changes would you like to see in the world?
Taina Brown she/hers (11:13.66)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:24.421)
I would like to see peace no more, no more. No making fun of people for like differences. Mainly all of that. I would love that too. You know, give the poor some home. Yeah. know, give them food, give them water. Yeah. When we see people out on the streets who don't have homes, what do you always want to do? Spare some change. Yeah. You always try to them money, don't you? Yes. Yeah. Because it's not really, is it fair that some people don't have homes?
Taina Brown she/hers (11:36.455)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:48.316)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:55.055)
No, it's not. I agree. I don't think that's fair either. Like, sometimes you just get kicked out of their house. Yeah, that can happen. Yeah, and they find nowhere to go. Yeah. So maybe we could help them. Yeah. If you were in charge, that's what you would do? Yes. What else would you do if you were in charge?
Becky Mollenkamp (12:17.777)
I don't really know from this point. It doesn't have to just be like big things. It could be little fun things.
I'd make water slides, like from normal slides. Just like, you would be allowed to like at any school, bring like a bucket of water, shove it outside, boom. That would be very, very fun. Yes. What about your, tell her your business idea for Nerf. yeah. I have like, I have this business idea for Nerf. Like, if there's like, if you have a reservation for it,
Taina Brown she/hers (12:29.591)
No.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:38.045)
Boom, water slide, instant water slide.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:57.225)
You can come, if you don't, you can just pay money to get in. It's really And then what do we do once you're inside? Well, you pick a team, or you can just watch. You know, you can watch, can chill in one of the garages, which has all the Nerf bullets, Nerf guns. And have like a battle? Yes. Yeah. You know, that brings up something else though about guns.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:05.902)
Mm -hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:20.397)
A Nerf Battle?
Becky Mollenkamp (13:25.893)
What are your thoughts about guns?
Banh the world. Banh from the world. Real ones only have Nerf guns.
Would that real guns in Terraform really exist? What wouldn't exist? Nerf. that might be true, huh? Because like it could be expired, like inspired, sorry. inspired by? Yeah. So do you not want to ban guns?
Taina Brown she/hers (13:43.034)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:48.502)
Inspired by real guns. Yeah, that's a very logical conclusion
Becky Mollenkamp (13:58.231)
No, maybe in like some states, yes. Not yours? Couldn't we just ban the real guns and not the Nerf guns? Yes. Yeah. Like, I'll make up this brand called Nerf. Like, I'll go back in time. Stop guns from being invented. Like, if I see that inventor I swear I'm just gonna kick him in the face. Well, that seems awfully mean. Yeah, but still. Just no. Stop him. It's like,
Taina Brown she/hers (14:01.058)
you
Taina Brown she/hers (14:25.466)
Try to stop him.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:28.449)
No, sir. No, sir. Lifetime in jail, sir. Why do think it was a man who invented guns? It could be a girl.
I don't know. don't either, but I think you're right. I have a feeling it was a man. probably. It feels like something a man would invent. Who knows? I'm not sure. Ooh. Also, do you think that Kamala Harris would make a good president? Yes. Can a woman be president? Yes. Can a woman be a doctor? Yes. What can a woman not do?
Becky Mollenkamp (15:02.36)
Nothing.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:04.111)
Good answer.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:04.987)
Because nothing is impossible to achieve. You're always doing something in life. That is so true. I'll put a mic drop on there's nothing a woman couldn't do. Good job. See those motivational statements that he just makes? The board, you won't be able to see this, but the board behind me, Gus, puts out a motivational statement. He tries to do it once a week. It's been a bit. No, it's okay. And so you're very good. Do you have any motivational statements that come to mind right now?
Taina Brown she/hers (15:11.691)
Mm -hmm. True.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:27.65)
You
Becky Mollenkamp (15:34.619)
Come closer to the mic and tell people. no. okay. Not really. No, you don't have one at the moment? Not really. Okay, okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:39.32)
Not today.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:44.321)
What do you think you want to be when you grow up Gus? A game creator? Okay. What's your favorite game right now?
Becky Mollenkamp (15:47.139)
game creator since i was in kindergarten yes
Becky Mollenkamp (15:54.907)
WorldWideLinks. Is that mom's favorite? No. No. You're more like a... You're more like a Sudoku guy person. A Sudoku. Mario? I like some of the Mario games. Not at all. Not the ones that I like. I know, and you don't like the ones I like. I really like Super Mario Bros. U.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:56.469)
Roblox, yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:01.385)
What's mom's favorite game?
Taina Brown she/hers (16:06.603)
hahaha
Taina Brown she/hers (16:12.022)
Ha ha.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:15.935)
What kind of games do you want to make when you grow up?
Becky Mollenkamp (16:21.073)
I've been playing some out just like he has been planning them. You have a notebook full of game ideas, right? Do you have there? Well, I don't want you to give away all your trade secrets, but are there any you could share?
Taina Brown she/hers (16:35.509)
Maybe just one.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:37.741)
All right, fine. I'm going to create a game called Live -Topia. Live -Topia? Yes. What is that? Adventure sandbox kind of game, kind of like Minecraft. With more wide options. More wide options, like many options? Yeah. Gotcha. I like that. Yeah, he's known he wanted to be a game creator since kindergarten. He's also had the same girlfriend since kindergarten.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:39.404)
You
Taina Brown she/hers (16:51.902)
Okay.
Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:59.039)
Okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:07.461)
He has his whole life planned out ahead of him. One very... No, he's a Gemini.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:09.844)
Wow, are you a Virgo?
Taina Brown she/hers (17:14.036)
attracts them.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:15.953)
He's supposed to be a cancer, but he was premature, so he's a Gemini. I'm living a double life. Living a double life, right there. You're a sweet angel one moment and a mean little devil the next, right? Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:22.639)
Yes, yes. What?
Taina Brown she/hers (17:29.014)
Do you like to read?
Becky Mollenkamp (17:32.561)
Yeah, like sometimes. Yeah. You've been reading more. What books do you read on your own? What are your favorites? I do like Diver from a Big Kid. Yeah, I wish I'd be like more books though. Only one got released this year. Yeah. Like you also like Big Nate. Yes. What about Harry Potter? How do you feel about Harry Potter? Those books are way too long. Like I have a Harry Potter book that's 870 pages. It's a lot, isn't it?
Taina Brown she/hers (17:34.878)
times. Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:41.351)
Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:58.527)
That's a lot.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:59.461)
What do know about JK Rowling? Did I tell you anything about her and why mom doesn't like her? Do remember? I forgot. Did I tell you it was because she didn't like trans yeah, yes. Yeah, yeah. So how do you feel about that?
She doesn't deserve like that much money. She only deserves like big 20 bucks a day at least. That's it. At least. Yeah. Like they still deserve to live. Well of course. Yeah. Yeah. She deserves to live. Yeah. But what do you think about people reading her books even though she's got some hate in her heart? I'm pretty sure she is making making a lot of money. The books are good. Just like the person who wrote it is not good. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:23.284)
20 bucks a day, 20 bucks a day.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:28.69)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:46.386)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:47.569)
How do you balance that out? Cause you wanted to be Harry Potter for Halloween, but we also know JK Rowling is kind of not a very nice person. So do you think that's okay to be Harry I think I'll stick a sticky note on the back of my, on like the back of my cloak saying I hate JK Rowling. That's way to get the message across, huh? There you go. Well, mom's idea is that we just don't give her any money. So if we don't pay for any of the stuff that gives her money, then No!
Taina Brown she/hers (19:06.247)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:17.573)
Like there is like loads of fan made stuff with Harry Potter. Yeah, but the stuff that she gets money on, maybe we just don't buy it. Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:23.229)
Yeah, or you could make your costume instead of buying it. That might be a fun project.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:32.771)
Like I already have like loads of stuff in my
Dress up box? Yes, yes, I forgot. Yeah, we could make a costume. Yeah, we definitely could. Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:47.868)
So you have the same girlfriends since kindergarten?
Becky Mollenkamp (19:51.183)
Yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:52.956)
What do you like about her?
Becky Mollenkamp (19:55.013)
Her blonde hair. You know, I just love her so much. I know you do and she's very pretty and very nice. She is really nice. What are the nicest things about her personality? How sweet she is. That's a hard word to say with this. Yeah, know he's got a, listeners, he has a expander in his mouth that gives them a little bit of a listen right now because we're going to braces tomorrow. yeah. Okay. So she's sweet. I can say that word for you.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:15.195)
Bye.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:22.469)
What else about her personality? She sounds lovely. Honestly, my favorite one of my favorite people in the world. People. It's hard. You got it. One of your favorite people in the world. I said it funny too. She is awesome. Yeah. He's already figured out his whole life. Did you have this much of your life plan, Taina, when you were eight? No, me neither. Yeah. What did you think you would be when you were eight?
Taina Brown she/hers (20:44.277)
When I was that young? No. I still don't have some of my life planned.
I think when I was eight, I wanted to be everything. Like I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be an actress. I wanted to be a lawyer. I wanted to be a singer. I don't think I ever wanted to be a firefighter. Yeah. I don't like being hot. no, never a policeman either. Just, I know, maybe I misspoke. I think I misspoke. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:03.141)
Firefighters. That sounds too scary. Police them!
Becky Mollenkamp (21:15.311)
You said everything. He's a bit literal. I wanted to be a teacher and a dancer when I was eight. I think I'm kind of a teacher. So that sort of happened. I'm most certainly not a dancer. Am I? Most certainly and most certainly not a singer. No, I'm not a singer, am I? Most certainly not. You're correct about that.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:28.046)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ha ha!
Yeah.
What kind of music do you like, Gus?
Becky Mollenkamp (21:41.977)
I don't know like...
I like all sorts of music. He listens to lot of stuff his dad listens to so like Elton John and Ava Brothers and what was the one you were singing yesterday when you guys got home from soccer? I can't remember now. Dad said you wanted to turn it up. How's it go?
My what? my mind set on you by George Harrison. Yeah. He listens to a lot of stuff that we listen to, but you use like kids pop. Haven't been like releasing like albums lately. So it's been going down here. Yeah. You remember chat chapel Rowan?
Taina Brown she/hers (22:13.689)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:20.589)
Ooh, kids.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:26.784)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:31.765)
H -O -T -T -O -G -O I know that's an American song though You don't like it? It's not very good Like, it's not very good Watch out cause Taino loves Chappell Rowan so do I In my opinion Yeah
Taina Brown she/hers (22:37.806)
You don't like it?
Taina Brown she/hers (22:42.563)
Okay.
Overow is my favorite. You know what? You get to have your opinion. You get to decide what kind of music you like.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:50.769)
What do you wish parents would do differently?
Becky Mollenkamp (22:57.275)
Like adults, not just parents. I was just ready for that question. I know, ready. I was gonna throw you a hard one. I'm curious what you think adults could do differently. It could be parents or teachers.
think parents, they should like step up their game, you know, like give their child a little bit better. like what kind, like in what ways? Like, like if you're an only child, you pretty much get what you want. It's hard to say. You do pretty much get what you want when you're an only child. For the listeners, Gus is an only child. Yes. Well,
Taina Brown she/hers (23:30.229)
Yeah, I can see that.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:35.434)
Hahaha.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:36.997)
Technically I'm not, I'm a sister which is my dog. Well yeah. Technically.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:42.515)
So for children or kids who are only childs, what could the adults in their lives do better to help them?
Becky Mollenkamp (23:54.737)
Actually, I don't really know. What do we, what do mom and dad do right?
Becky Mollenkamp (24:03.855)
You can be honest. Because then you can tell me what we do wrong. I'm thinking. We don't do anything right? You want to tell us what we do You do a lot of where I just don't really remember. Can you think of anything we do wrong? Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:22.339)
Okay, I don't know. No, we're just perfect parents. I don't know that that's true. Yes, you are. thank you. That's very sweet. No one's perfect. No one's perfect. Exactly. How do you deal with that when you don't get things right?
Taina Brown she/hers (24:23.711)
Yeah.
You
Taina Brown she/hers (24:33.643)
That looks perfect. That's great.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:42.555)
When you're not perfect, what do you do? Grab an eraser and erase it. There you go. Sometimes you get frustrated though, don't you? Yeah. Yeah. my head against the wall. Bang your head against the wall. I haven't seen you do that, but you do get frustrated. that's do at school. I'm normally at desk, but not all. Well, your new word is perseverance. Don't hit your head on the desk.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:05.099)
Especially not your frontal lobe.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:07.353)
Yeah, please. It's fine. I'm strong for him. Yeah, but it's your brain. What about your brain? Is it strong? This is strong as like bricks. It's like a brick going bump. It is heavy. You know who I think has bricks in their brain? Bricks for brains. Donald Trump.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:12.049)
You are very resilient.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:20.597)
You
Becky Mollenkamp (25:31.957)
What do you think? Now he's he's literally is a brick. He is a brick. He is a brick. He's like the same color, same shape. He literally is a brick. He's a lot like.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:36.563)
is a
Taina Brown she/hers (25:41.716)
Do you think that he's a good dad?
Becky Mollenkamp (25:45.815)
Donald Trump. No, he's he's a bad person. Well, you can do bad things and still be a good parent. Like people out there, you might think he's a good person. Like I respect your opinion, but still we don't share the opinion with you and it's your choice, Alief. Yeah, that's true. Everyone has their right to their own opinion. I appreciate that you said that. I think that that is fair. Yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:46.76)
Yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:50.611)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:14.821)
We just don't agree. Yes, we still agree with you. Mason, topics I can think of any. I don't know. What else do you want to talk about? I don't know. I said I can't think of any. okay. I did hear. All right.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:23.487)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:29.434)
Okay, can I ask you another question? What's the hardest part about being a boyfriend?
Becky Mollenkamp (26:37.871)
Like, we don't really see each other much.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:42.752)
Mmm, so spending time together.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:45.157)
Yes. Like even on rare occasions we only say hi. Yeah, that's tough. It's hard to have a relationship where you're only saying hi every once in while, huh? But you guys did have a wonderful date. Yeah. That was nice. We did. Yeah, we should have another one of those, huh? You do nice and thoughtful things for her sometimes. Like, actually, I can't remember. Well, Valentine's Day. yeah, yeah. You've written her poems.
You've gotten her flowers. Those are nice things that people like. I know something else we can ask you about because this podcast, we talk about business stuff too. And you have had a little business of your own. Can you tell people about what your business is? Yes, I do run a juice stand like every summer, refreshing drinks, know.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:17.608)
Those are sweet things, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:41.221)
What else do we sell at the juice stand? sell like cookies, we sell cookies, banana bread, maybe brownies sometimes. We should do that. And what do you sell for flavors of juice? We sell like watermelon. How do we make it? We do it fresh puree. Fresh puree from real live watermelon. That's right.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:54.151)
Cool.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:01.073)
Watermelon juice is my favorite.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:03.505)
It's a big seller. Yes, it's the best. Like last time we did it, we ran out of three jugs of watermelon juice. Yeah, how much money did you make last time? I'm pretty sure it was like $127 something. A little less than $100. I think it was more like $75 or $80. No, someone gave me $100 bill. Okay. I don't remember that, but okay. But you did pretty well. And where does your money go? In my bank account.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:06.201)
It's very refreshing.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:12.741)
Wow.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:33.841)
Are you saving for something? Mm -hmm. What? One thousand bucks. You're to get to one thousand? Why? so when I buy something, like I want a robot, you know, it's small, it costs five hundred bucks though. So that can have five hundred bucks in my bank account once I buy it. So you want to make sure you save half of your money. Why do we want to do that? So maybe I can like save it, you know.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:36.826)
What are you saving for?
Taina Brown she/hers (28:50.608)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:54.95)
Okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:04.155)
Actually, I wasn't prepared for that. that's okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:06.406)
Yeah
Becky Mollenkamp (29:09.069)
Maybe it's just so you have more money and savings for other things. Yes. Cause you never know what you might need in the future. Do you have any business tips for the listeners as somebody who's run a business? What helped you be successful with your juice stand? Like signs. We did, we did it on like a garage sale day, like the name of the garage sale. That was really smart. So taking advantage of other people's
Taina Brown she/hers (29:12.346)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:26.159)
marketing.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:30.213)
Well, that's smart. That's very smart.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:35.375)
what other people have going on so that you can maximize your sales. That was really smart. And signage so people know that it's happening. Anything else?
Taina Brown she/hers (29:38.361)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:49.201)
Yes, your customer service is like no other because you love to talk to people don't you? You are really chatty. So when the customers show up you talk to them and make them feel special. Yeah, that I think goes a long way too. Yeah, I also think the diversity of products and that you do something different because it's not just your boring lemonade stand. Like how often do you see watermelon juice stands?
Taina Brown she/hers (29:57.816)
You're chatty.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:03.892)
important. Everybody likes to feel special.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:17.92)
Not very often. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:18.309)
Never. Not once. Never. Exactly. Except yours. So it stands out, doesn't it? Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:25.272)
Have you ever been to Los Angeles, Gus?
Becky Mollenkamp (30:28.746)
No, I've only traveled like Texas and Colorado.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:32.227)
Okay, if you ever go to Los Angeles on the weekends, if you go downtown by the flower market, there's juice stands all over and they have like 20 different kinds of juices that you can buy.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:46.587)
See, you're thinking like a Californian already. You're ahead of the times. so I'm thinking like our own neighbors. Yeah, we had neighbors that moved to California. You are thinking like them. Very progressive. Very smart. Any other business ideas that you really the case for me. Okay, stop. don't have with me still growing up. We're not going to talk about people here. Yeah, I'm not. you have any other business ideas? No. No, because you keep telling me you want to make more money.
You said you want to own a business like mom someday, Someday, yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:19.952)
Like a gaming business?
Becky Mollenkamp (31:21.913)
Yeah, something like that. Why do you want to your own business instead of work for someone else? So can make people happy. Like, I don't want to be like an independent. You want to be independent? Yes. Do you want to have employees? I do. Like, I do need some help. Yeah. Like, like if there's new trainees, we can like get people to teach them some stuff.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:24.14)
That'd be cool.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:35.617)
Mmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:49.408)
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:50.991)
Yes. You know, we're probably gonna have like a big screen like telling us like what game we're making and like genre, you know, what I think we would need. I think that's All right. Well, buddy, this has been podcasting. This is what it is. Just talking about stuff. Anything else you want to talk about? It doesn't have to be anything big. No, really.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:54.017)
That sounds like a good plan.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:19.691)
Can I ask you one last question?
Becky Mollenkamp (32:19.737)
No, is that all you want to talk about? It's all you want to talk about. All right. Did you have fun? Yes. Okay. Do you want to go and do some other stuff and I'll finish talking to Taina? Do you want to say goodbye to everybody and thanks for listening? Tell them goodbye. Bye. Bye, Taina. Not just her, tell everybody in the microphone that's listening. The people you don't see. Bye, everyone. Okay. right. You can leave the door open. Thanks.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:34.325)
Thanks guys.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:41.551)
Hahaha!
Becky Mollenkamp (32:48.047)
Wasn't that eventful and exciting?
Taina Brown she/hers (32:49.321)
Yeah, yeah, I love.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:53.241)
Marry you! Go on,
Taina Brown she/hers (32:55.488)
I love the way kids' minds work, how they're just like, well, maybe this. It's a very organic way of processing information. It's very refreshing.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:15.505)
Yeah, and it's also funny how he clams up a bit when there's like, for some reason, this is, I don't know, some sort of pressure that, because ordinarily be much more talkative. And so interesting to see your kid like doing that. But I know it's exciting for him because he has dreams of starting his own podcast too.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:27.731)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Do you think it's because he could see himself? You know, sometimes like when we like, when we feel, when we know that other people are looking at us, then we perceive ourselves differently.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:43.569)
Probably. Yeah, doing it by himself. Maybe it's best without any visual and just but I think I wonder if even just the presence of the microphone, you know, and just the it knowing it's not candid. And you know, it's interesting, because I do think that makes us think about just us doing it too. And like how self conscious you are. And these are super informal conversations that you and I have. And even so, we're both aware of the fact that we're recording and that
Taina Brown she/hers (33:48.531)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:52.947)
No
Taina Brown she/hers (34:10.045)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:12.709)
some people are gonna hear this. And so it's interesting to think about how that shifts the way you show up when you think you're going to be fully yourself.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:18.608)
Mm -hmm, yeah. Yeah, no, and I was actually just thinking about that earlier today. Like, I was thinking, man, like, it feels like we've gotten, like, we're just, we're really good at just talking about things. I feel like, like, we just have, a really good rapport at, discussing things and things like that. But I remember the first few episodes, I felt, like, internally just, a lot stiffer.
than I do now when we record. so, and I think it's that sense of like being watched makes me watch myself, right? And so if you want to get philosophical, it's, you know, it's the, yeah, it's like the whole like Michelle Foucault, like, you know, voyeuristic, panopticon kind of thing. And so, so yeah, but I definitely feel more relaxed now.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:46.139)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:58.085)
We might as well at the end of this since that wasn't
Taina Brown she/hers (35:15.719)
but like the first few episodes it was like, you know.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:19.663)
Yeah, I mean, I think I may have felt more relaxed because I have another podcast, but even so, I think, I don't know, even like, I still think I can feel myself being a professional because that's not it. But just, you know, not as relaxed as it would be if you and I were just at the coffee shop having a conversation, which I don't like that. Like, I'd like it to be that informal. But also there's like, think about over talk where you don't do that.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:24.113)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:39.95)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:47.244)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:48.645)
conversation at the coffee shop and my volume and, you know, am I close enough to the mic and all that kind of stuff starts to affect how you show up, I think.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:55.501)
Yeah, yeah, it's like, had a client once who would say that she cosplays as a human being at work, right? And so sometimes it feels that way. It feels like, you know, you're like cosplaying a podcaster or cosplaying a business owner or cosplaying a professional, you know, because there's this perspective aspect to it.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:16.785)
Yeah, like I feel like I very much am cosplaying a parent and an adult. Like the fact that I just had my child here, like it's still there. You just think like, wait a minute. I'm responsive, like I'm the adult in the room. I'm the one that he's going to think of me like I think of my mom or my dad. Like it's just so bizarre to think because there's nothing about me that's shifted. And yet everything's totally different. So yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:36.56)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:43.365)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:44.101)
I feel that very much. Like I'm always feel like I'm cosplaying. When do you feel like you're not?
Taina Brown she/hers (36:50.614)
Hmm. When I'm alone, you know, sometimes with my wife, most of the time with my wife, but even sometimes with Mellow, it's like, because I think when you're in a relationship, whether it's a romantic relationship or a parental relationship, right? Like you're also constantly thinking about that other person's needs.
And so if you're a loving person, you know, if you care about the relationship. And so there are times where I'm just like, I don't want to do anything for you, but I know that you need this. So I'm going to do this, right? I'm going to put my own needs aside in order to help you get what you need in this moment. And that I think on a very technical sense is a performance, right? It's not a bad performance. It doesn't mean that I'm being fake, but
Becky Mollenkamp (37:20.347)
Right.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:45.753)
there is a performative aspect to it. And I think the only time that I can 100 % all of the time not feel like I'm cosplaying is when I'm by myself. And even then, like sometimes I gotta be like, bitch, what are you doing? Like, just chill. Like, just be real for a second. Like, just be honest with yourself, you know?
Becky Mollenkamp (38:11.333)
Yeah, my hotel retreats that I try to do once a quarter, like that's probably the most I feel free, whatever the right word is. Yeah, like that unmasked just myself. But I don't know, it's interesting. I want to think like even in that time, is there still some like, because I'm at a hotel, so I'm not at home and is that like a different version of me or is it me? I don't know, it's really interesting food for thought to like.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:36.385)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:37.003)
about what is the most authentic version of myself. And can you ever really even have that? is it always like, because we are like humans are sort of chameleons and some of us more chameleon like than others, but we are all sort of always adapting to the environment that we're in. And I think even when we're alone, we do that to some degree.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:46.869)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:55.637)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree as well. I think, you know, we can, we're complex enough to be able to be all of those things simultaneously or at different times. And I don't, I don't think that makes us any less authentic. I think that chameleon like ability is a survival skill, right? And so obviously we can exploit that.
Becky Mollenkamp (39:21.327)
sure.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:24.769)
to do harm to ourselves and to others. But if it's not done in an exploitative sense, right, where we're not creating harm, then I think it's just our natural ability to adapt to our circumstances. Like, I think if there was someone who never adapted, that would be frightening to me.
Becky Mollenkamp (39:46.203)
Yeah, yeah, that's true because I think that like being truly fully yourself everywhere. I think that we have seen, mean, ultimately, think a lot of times that's the kind of thing that leads someone into getting care because I mean, if I showed up as my, I walk around talking to myself when I'm alone and like, yeah, I don't know. I feel like if I was just didn't give two shits about anyone.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:03.57)
Mm -hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:16.273)
probably wouldn't be a very healthy way to show up. Yeah, really. It's Trump. Speaking of that again. So.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:17.577)
Yeah, it's sociopathic, right? To look that way. Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:28.689)
What'd you think of having the kid on?
Taina Brown she/hers (40:29.877)
He's so delightful. I love kids. just, think they're just so, just the energy and the curiosity is so many adults. We lose that so much or we don't have as, I think, as many opportunities to really tap into that as we get older because the world tries to like fit us into this professional, right? Like kind of.
skin and so yeah he's great he's great I enjoy
Becky Mollenkamp (41:02.243)
Or even into, I would recommend a book. So this book is called, Does Patriarchy Persist? It's by Carol Gilligan and Naomi Snyder. And I found it super fascinating. It's about like the psychology that perpetuates patriarchy. And as a parent, I thought it was very interesting just to read because he is at one of those key inflection points that this book talks about. So for boys, their initial entry into patriarchy,
Taina Brown she/hers (41:19.103)
Mm
Taina Brown she/hers (41:26.452)
Mmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:31.857)
the psychological conditioning that starts to happen is in this like sort of five to eight range when they start school basically. And that is the first time where they start to really like as a collective get the messaging that they're not allowed to have feelings, right? That whole brush it off, get over it. Their friends start to make fun of them. That whole like even watching now some of the boys starting to use this like gay as an insult and having.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:34.707)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:38.568)
Really? Mm -hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:48.445)
Hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:59.325)
Mm -hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:59.857)
those discussions, which I never thought I would have. Like I just, that seemed like something that would have died with our generation of, but it's still there. and that like, you know, these associations of don't be like a girl, right? That starts to happen for boys at this age. For girls, their like first real initiation into patriarchy is more like in the nine to 11, 12 range where they start to go through puberty and their bodies begin to change. And then they are clearly made to feel.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:05.319)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:11.207)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:23.601)
Hmm
Becky Mollenkamp (42:27.429)
very other and that their body is the thing that matters and that they're not allowed to be angry and that they should care for others and those kinds of things. So girls actually get a longer period before their sort of indoctrination into patriarchy. Boys, it starts early and then they have a second round when they get a little older. for things like the teenage, late teenage years where boys are more around like the sexual part of their experience as what it means to be a man.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:30.523)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:40.423)
Mm -hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:45.213)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:48.84)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:56.091)
But it's really an interesting read for people who have kids just to think about like, then thinking about like, how do you combat that? Because it made me think of it as you were saying, at this age, they're like, it's sort of before patriarchy has fully gotten its claws into them. But then you think like, I can see it happening. I can see what's happening. He has an incredibly feminist mom, a pretty feminist dad. Like, we only have so much control. And that's the part that's really hard to recognize.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:03.14)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:09.009)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:22.533)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They spend so much time outside of the home with other people that it's, don't envy parents who fight that fight. Like, cause I know that that's gotta be one of the most difficult things that you have to kind of take on as a parent. I wonder, that's really interesting that book. I, how like,
patriarchy for women is like mapped onto our bodies, which I mean, guess thinking through everything we know, makes sense, right? But I wonder like how different it is across cultures, right? Because like I know growing up, like even before I was nine, there was this kind of idea of like,
a difference between boys and girls and like what girls were allowed to do versus what boys were allowed to do. And so there was, like, I feel like I've always had a sense of like this ghost of a system that was kind of like ruling my behaviors and like what I could do, what I couldn't do, what I could say, what I couldn't say, like how I was supposed to behave. And so it'd be, I think it'd be interesting to
to interrogate that a little bit more.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:49.489)
Yeah, it's been a while since I've read this, so I ought to reread. I mean, it's highlighted to crap, so I obviously I should go back and reread at least the parts I highlighted to see I could have a little bit of that wrong. But I think that it is pretty similar to what I said. But I have a feeling it also differs quite a bit by culture and nationality and those kinds of things. And I'm 99 .9 % certain, if I remember right, that both of these women are white women.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:54.106)
I see!
Taina Brown she/hers (45:18.488)
Mm.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:18.671)
And so, you know, there is a good chance that their research is tainted by that as well. So as if, as with most things, like, you know, know that it's probably written through a particular perspective.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:24.536)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and you know, yeah, and I think that's totally fine. I think the mistake is when people write from a particular perspective and assume that's all the perspectives that there are, you know, like it's fine if you're doing research just on like white America, like, but say that. What advice do you have for parents who are trying to raise feminist children, if any at all?
Becky Mollenkamp (45:51.857)
I don't know, you know, my friends, so I practice what I call intuitive parenting, which is what I've always done, which basically just means I trust that my instincts to protect this and love this child are natural and that I can trust them and use those as my guide for making decisions. Like I don't read parenting books. don't.
I try not to really rely on what a lot of other people say unless I have a very specific issue that's come up that I'm like, I just, I'm not sure what to do here. And then I will like read certain things to figure out like what people will say are best practices. But in general, I'm like, what feels right? So like I ended up practicing attachment parenting, but without even knowing what that was. But like I took, I responded to my child's every needs for the first three years of his life. Like there was no nos or anything and he's incredibly well attached.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:21.985)
Okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:45.649)
child now, which means like if people don't know about attachment theory, he has a very secure attachment. Like he can go anywhere and not be afraid. Like when I was a kid, I was afraid to go anywhere alone or have a sleepover or go to my friend's houses. His first day of kindergarten, he walked right in by didn't even look back, didn't care. Like he just knows he's very protected and safe and locked. And so I think attachment parenting or something like it is to me has been valuable. But I think ultimately I feel like just
Taina Brown she/hers (46:54.718)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (47:14.833)
Trust your intuition, right? Like really trust that you know what's best for your child and allow that to be the case. Don't let other people try to convince you that it's supposed to be this way or I've always done it this way or you're gonna spoil them or you're gonna what? Like, I really don't think that that stuff starts to happen until you like, and then if you start to notice this may not be working and give me the results I want than what feels right now, right? Like that evolves for us. Like he's earning screen time now. He didn't always have to do that.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:38.15)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (47:43.483)
That's because we've noticed that some of his behaviors have changed a bit as he's getting a little older and having access to different things. So now we're changing some screen time rules. There was nothing I read that said I need to do that. It just intuitively felt right.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:46.71)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:55.466)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. How important do you think it is for parents to like...
be able to identify, like you brought up attachment theory, right? Which you kind of unintentionally did in taking care of your child. How important do you think it is for parents to not necessarily be able to have the language of all these different psychological or mental health things, but be able to understand themselves, right?
Becky Mollenkamp (48:32.017)
I think it's super important. And one of the reasons I didn't have a kid until I was 41, like I would, I just can't even imagine the parent I would have been if I had done this at 25 versus now. Like, and all the power to people who have been, whenever you have children, you do the best you can by your children and all of that. Like not everyone makes that choice or has that choice. And I fully understand that I was never going to have kids. And I'm glad that I waited till 41 because I'm the best possible version of a parent I can be because I know myself better than I ever have.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:37.896)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:52.701)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (49:02.033)
If I was 80, I'd probably be an even better parent, is why we often see grandparents being some of the most amazing and loving people. Like we look at our own parents and say, why weren't you like that with me? And it's because they have the wisdom of 60, 70, 80 years that allow them to show up differently because they probably very often interrogated so much of their own stuff and made peace with that, grown, learned. I have done so much of that now that I'm better able, not perfect, at being able to recognize when something's
Taina Brown she/hers (49:04.297)
You're a liar.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:13.308)
you
Taina Brown she/hers (49:17.0)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:27.625)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (49:30.917)
being when something's getting triggered at me. Like your kid is the most incredible tool for doing self development work ever. If you go there because they will trigger every trauma you've had, they will make you think of like they will bring you out every automatic trauma response you have. They are going to make you show up and be like, my God, I was just like my parent and I didn't want to be what's going on. Like it is all there. So I think the more that you do that work.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:32.819)
Yeah.
triggering.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (49:58.947)
on yourself, the better the parent you're gonna be. Otherwise you're operating out of a system, yeah, out of trauma. And that's where so many people, that's why I don't love a lot of people be like, well, this is how we've always done it in my family. And it's like, okay, but that was, is that make it okay? Like that's just not how, just because that's something that people have always done, everyone's always spanked. Okay, but that doesn't mean that I can't interrogate was that.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:01.009)
Yeah.
trauma. Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:14.929)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (50:23.279)
Does it work? Did I like being spanked? Did it work on me? How did that make me feel? What did it me think about my parents, right? Like, that what I want to repeat? I don't know. I think there's a lot to just learning about yourself before you become a parent if you can.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:35.431)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we've always done it that way. And that's why we're all traumatized.
Becky Mollenkamp (50:41.115)
precisely. And that's why it's always amazing to me how people will judge parents, like, especially sometimes older people will judge and be like, I can't believe you're you're spoiling the kid or you're letting them whatever and it's like, Yeah, but I don't want to do that thing you did because that's why I have all this resentment towards you. And why would I repeat that? And I can see parents doing it of this like, Well, that's how I was treated. Or that's what the way we did it, we figured it out. And it's like, okay, but
Taina Brown she/hers (50:51.527)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:57.222)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:09.585)
Did you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You, he is obviously a very friendly person and I'm sure he's got like some amazing friends at school. Does he ever hang out with like your adult friends?
Becky Mollenkamp (51:10.641)
And you really want that for your child to be like, well, you'll figure it out. You'll, you'll make it through this somehow. Like, no. Yeah. I have a lot of thoughts on that.
Becky Mollenkamp (51:34.585)
Yeah, mean, sometimes he, the adult friends love him. Everyone loves him and he's very extroverted. And so he loves socializing far more than I do. I don't know how he's my kid because I'm like such an introvert. He's like the most extreme opposite. we're the extremes of introversion and extroversion. So he loves to hang out with adults sometimes. But I mean, he much prefers his own friends, which is nice because I don't want him to be.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:55.535)
Mm
Mm -hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (52:01.201)
Like I remember being that kid that's like, you're an old soul or you're like a 50 year old in a nine year old body. And it's like, I don't want that for him.
Taina Brown she/hers (52:05.28)
Yeah
Taina Brown she/hers (52:09.197)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he should enjoy his youth.
Becky Mollenkamp (52:12.963)
And he is, and he's really good at friendships, which is really impressive to me. Going back to our friendship episode where I am an introvert, yeah, and he's very good at like, I mean, if it were up to him, he will be the kind of person who never leaves his hometown and has the same friends that he had in kindergarten. Now, I don't know that everyone else in his friend group will end up that way, but that would be his choice. He'll marry his high school sweetheart and have, I kind of hope he has a bigger world than that. But also like I have to respect if that ends up being the way he wants to be that like that's his path.
Taina Brown she/hers (52:18.254)
Yes. Were we both fucked up?
Taina Brown she/hers (52:32.675)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (52:42.885)
which is hard sometimes to allow your kid have their own path, especially when you're like, I don't know that that's the right path.
Taina Brown she/hers (52:48.961)
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, of course.
Becky Mollenkamp (52:51.205)
Anyway, well, thank you for indulging him and having this episode. I hope listeners didn't find it too torturous to listen to the first part.
Taina Brown she/hers (52:57.739)
No, it was so delightful. It was so delightful. And if you found it awful, then you just have hate in your heart. Kids are amazing.
Becky Mollenkamp (53:07.505)
Yeah, but it's also like I get they don't have the fully formed responses and thoughts, you know.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:14.559)
Yeah, yeah, it takes, you know, it definitely takes patience, you know, and so, but I think it's a good exercise for adults to spend time with kids periodically.
Becky Mollenkamp (53:25.125)
Maybe we should do it once a year and we'll check on his progress, see how he ages and how he gets more thoughtful in some of these things over time.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:28.757)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, if he still has the same girlfriend.
Becky Mollenkamp (53:34.181)
think he will. They were, they're actually engaged, just so people know. Yes, so he proposed and she said yes. They were gonna have a wedding on the playground, but the principals didn't let them. So the wedding's on hold, but they're, yeah, it's quite the commitment. It's, I think a bit more on his end than hers. I'm so worried for him getting his heart broken at some point in life, but he loves, he loves big. Yeah, he's very good. Well, anyway, thank you for indulging everyone. Thank you for listening.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:39.554)
Are you serious?
Taina Brown she/hers (53:45.872)
the.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:52.616)
Taina Brown she/hers (53:55.999)
Yeah, I can tell. can tell. Yeah. Yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (54:02.863)
and we'll be back again next week talking about some more random ass shit.
Taina Brown she/hers (54:05.908)
Yes, we will.