It's Wednesday, March 26, and this is the nineteen o nine State News weekly podcast featuring our reporters talking about the news. I'm your host, Alex Walters. This week, professors caught in the crosshairs. Texas senator Ted Cruz is circulating a database of research projects he wants cut from federal funds. Some scholars at Michigan State are wondering what they did to end up on the hit list.
Alex:Here to talk about that and other federal research effects is academics reporter Hannah Locke. Hannah, thanks for coming on the show.
Hannah:Thanks for having me.
Alex:So tell me a little bit about there's this great first anecdote in your story about a professor at MSU who does research who finds themself on this list that's circulating online?
Hannah:Yeah. So Professors Babik Boren and James Jackson, their project was found on the list. The list more broadly targets research that Ted Cruz has classified as DEI. So we might think of research that's more humanities based or more focused on issues of diversity, stuff like that. But Warren and Jackson found themselves on the list, and they're both in the Department of Chemistry.
Hannah:So their study that was flagged focuses on the mechanisms of halogenation reactions and how they react with double bonds. Not much of what I can begin to understand. And when I messaged them about thewhen I reached out to them about the database, they were really surprised to find out that their research had been flagged.
Alex:So when you messaged them, they didn't even know that they were on this list?
Hannah:No, they didn't even know. So I was kind of the one that brought it to their attention. And then when I spoke to them in person, Professor Boren had gone through the proposal that was flagged, and he found that the only word that he thinks could have caught the attention of their project was the word diversity, which was included in their proposal.
Alex:And what was the context of diversity in their proposal?
Hannah:Sure. So this database focuses on National Science Foundation funded grants. So in order to have a proposal approved and funded by the NSF, there has to be a broader impact statement in your proposal. In Boren and Jackson's project, their broader impact is focused on something called Project Seed, which is a program that the American Chemical Society, a national program, has created. And it provides high school students from low income backgrounds with the opportunity to participate in research projects in the summertime.
Hannah:High school students can apply and be placed with a mentor or a researcher at a university.
Alex:So because they had some role in this high school program and they talk about that in the broader impact section of their proposal, this is then flagged as diversity research as DEI on Ted Cruz's list of things he wants to cut. Correct. What did they make of that? Mean, this stuff about chemical bonds and whatnot doesn't seem like the kind of DEI research that conservatives like Ted Cruz are actually sort of after.
Hannah:Right. So they were baffled, for lack of a better word. They Boran had actually said to me, I don't think it's much of anything that Ted Cruz would understand. It's not the type of thing that he would be able to comprehend. Because it's not.
Hannah:Because it's something that is very specific to chemical reactions and stuff that myself, as a political science student, would not be able to.
Alex:They just happened to, I guess, make the mistake of using the word diversity in their proposal, which now has them enrolled in What about other MSU scholars you found that are on this list? What kind of work were they doing that he's kind of targeting?
Hannah:Yeah. So some projects were similar to this one, where it was some small sentence in their broader impact statement. But others are more focused on creating more access in the STEM field. So quite a few STEM education grants were flagged. And Professor Julie Labarkin, she had four of her, four separate projects flagged by this database.
Hannah:So she is the associate dean of MSU's Environmental Science and Policy Program. And one of her projects that she focuses on is called the STEM Ed Participatory and Community Engaged Research and Teaching Program. And so this trains postdoctoral researchers in STEM education research, but it focuses the research on community driven needs and interests. So this program in particular partners with indigenous communities, and it's partnered with the SUNY ESF Center for Native Peoples and the Environment and also the College of Menominee Nations. So when I spoke to La Barkin, she said that the tie between this project and also the other projects of hers that were flagged was the focus on community and justice and uplifting researchers and students.
Alex:And what's your reading on you're an academic, you're on Ted Cruz's list. Mean, obviously that's a scary thing and they're worried and they're confused about it and maybe take issue with the methods. But what does that actually mean? Is heI mean, he's just a senator. He's not necessarily, I guess, empowered to make these cuts.
Alex:Is this something he's putting out as suggestions for the executive department to make cuts? What does it mean to be on this list?
Hannah:Right. So the database was actually originally released as part of his an investigation of his during the Biden administration. So in October of twenty twenty four, he released this database. And it was kind of it was any research that he had deemed promoting DEI. And all of the research was kind of filed under it promoted DEI or advanced neo Marxist class warfare propaganda.
Hannah:That was what the press release describing the database So
Alex:he did this last year under Biden as, look at what we're doing.
Hannah:Exactly.
Alex:Is he resharing it now with all of these cuts the Trump administration's making as, like, or is this something he wants them to act on, I guess?
Hannah:Yeah. So essentially, this investigation was done, then he re released the database through a press release on February 11. And through this press release, he requested that the projects included in the database received significant scrutiny in the Trump administration's review of NSF grants. Because right now, that's what the Trump administration is doing. The grant proposal process in the NSF has been frozen.
Alex:So they're already doing a review. Right. He's saying like, Hey, while you guys are looking at this, here's all this stuff I want out.
Hannah:Yeah, look at all these.
Alex:38 of them are at MSU. Correct. Interesting. Tell me about, you know, the university is aware of this, 38 of their projects are being suggested. Are they you talked to the relevant vice president, Doug Gage, who oversees research at MSU.
Alex:What did he say about what the administration is actually doing about this, if they're taking any action?
Hannah:Sure. So when it comes to this database, Vice President of Research and Innovation, Doug Gage, said that this wasn't one of their biggest concerns. This is mostly because the database that has flagged this research has not affected funding in any way yet. So right now, they are keeping an eye on it. But as of as of right now, they aren't taking any action because no action has been taken other
Alex:than releasing This isn't even we're concerned about at this point because there's other. Yes. Tell me about what are, like, the bigger fish that Doug Gage is frying.
Hannah:Right. So the biggest fish that is affecting MSU right now is the dismantling of USAID, which is the United States Agency for International Development. And this is a very relevant federal department to MSU.
Alex:Why MSU intertwined with? Because that doesn't make as much sense to me as NIH or NSF. You'd think that's more intertwined.
Hannah:Right. So USAID is a government agency that provides humanitarian assistance internationally. So quite a wide array of these programs are focused on agriculture in other countries. And as we know, MSU is an ag school.
Alex:Big with agriculture stuff.
Hannah:With agriculture stuff.
Alex:You used be called agricultural college.
Hannah:Exactly. So, we have quite a few programs at MSU that maybe we wouldn't think of being targeted by Trump right now, because we're seeing all of the attacks on DEI. We're seeing all of the attacks on NSF and NIH. But actually, the only departments that have been severely impacted with funding freezes have been those are are supported
Alex:by Through National Agriculture Research. Correct.
Hannah:And it actually even goes beyond agriculture as well. There are a few projects in the College of Education that were funded by USAID that were also frozen. So according to Doug Gage, right now, focus is on USAID and Yeah.
Alex:Well, I mean, what are they doing with those researchers who had, I guess, like USAA defunded projects that now that one is just cut? They don't have that funding anymore. Do you know what's happening to the relevant people at MSU?
Hannah:Yeah. So I was able to speak to them for a story that I did a little while ago. And essentially, their funding has been frozen during this review period, during which the State Department will review all of these programs to see if they are still worth funding. And during this time, researchers are kind of in limbo. And in preparation for this, Gage talked about some researchers.
Hannah:They are looking to provide with teaching positions or other opportunities at MSU.
Alex:Transition them in this interim until this review is done. But then as you talked about, if this review of USAID concludes and they decide, yeah, we're actually going to cut funding for all these research projects that we're opposed to, I mean, do you lay off all those researchers? Are there other ways that those projects could be funded? Like, what happens then?
Hannah:Right. So he spoke a little bit about the project funding. So MSU does not have the money in their budget to pick up where these projects have left off if they do lose their funding. So the projects will essentially be terminated if they don't have funding. And then it's kind of up to the administration to see, and also the specific departments and specific colleges, to see what happens to these researchers.
Hannah:But it's definitely a source of stress for these researchers as well. And specifically, some of the senior researchers I talked to spoke about how they feel, obviously, a lot of stress about their positions and their projects. But there are certain junior researchers, like PhD students, professors who don't have tenure, undergraduate students, post post doctoral students who have a lot less support. Yeah, and will maybe
Alex:feel more of a looming sense of doom about, if this really does end, you know, what is this like career and this sort of research?
Hannah:Right. Exactly.
Alex:Yeah. Well, I'm sure you'll continue to cover it as things evolve. That's all for now. We'll be back next week with fresh reporting from the great minds here at State News. Until then, both of Hannah's stories that we discussed and plenty more available at statenews.com.
Alex:Thank you, Hannah, for coming on the show. Our podcast coordinator, Taylor, for everything you hear. And most of all, thank you for listening. For the nineteen o nine, I'm Alex Walters.