Parable of the Talents in a Bitcoin Age - Ep 006

Dive into the intriguing intersection of Biblical teachings and modern finance as we discuss the 'Parable of the Talents' in the context of Bitcoin. Join filmmaker Anton Seim, Bitcoin advocate JD, and guests Jordan Bush and Brandon Gentile for a dynamic conversation on stewardship, wealth, and the revolutionary nature of Bitcoin. Explore the implications of a global economy built on a decentralized currency devoid of "Caesar's face."

Watch this episode on YouTube

Guests

Jordan Bush is the Executive Director of Thank God For Bitcoin. - @jmbushwrites on 𝕏
Brandon Gentile is the Host of Bitcoin Longform, former professional hockey player, and Bitcoin class of 2018. - @brandon_gentile on 𝕏

Hosts

JD - @CypherpunkCine on 𝕏
Bondor - @gildedpleb on 𝕏
Anton Seim - @antonseim on 𝕏

This episode is brought to you in part by:

IndeeHub - Reshape the Business of Storytelling - on X at @indeehub

Unknown Certainty - The Bitcoin Ad Company

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Bitcoin makes everything better. Join the team and our guests as we unpack how, why, and where we go from here.

I'm never going to make that quieter.

What's up? Welcome to better by Bitcoin episode. What is this?

007.

007. James Bond episode.

Today we have a few new faces. We're gonna be doing an episode

today on it's gonna sound like this is like a Bible study. It's

on the parable of the talents. My name is Anton Syme. I'm a

filmmaker, director of photography. I did the movies.

No safe spaces. What is a woman? Am I racist? I am in no way a

theologian. So I'm going to introduce this topic, although

doing theology is way out of my depth, but we're going to bring

it all together, bring it back to Bitcoin. So I guess we can

start out by just letting everybody else introduce

themselves. JD, you want to go first?

Sure. So I am JD. My goal and just kind of thing in life is

like the Bitcoin ad guy. I love telling stories, love doing

advertising, and I just really want to help move Bitcoin into

the mainstream ad space with just storytelling. What about

you, Bondur?

My name is Bondur. I have had, let's see, a career in finance.

Music, film, teaching, and engineering most recently. And

I've basically seen firsthand how fiat destroys all of these

industries from the inside out. And I'm here for Bitcoin. So

been a Christian for a long time, too. But yeah. Who's next?

We got Jordan and Brandon. Jordan.

Jordan. Yeah. So I'm the executive director of TGFB

Media. We exist to help Christians understand and use

Bitcoin for the glory of God and the good of people everywhere.

I have served as a missionary, a pastor, living overseas in

Uruguay. And yeah, I help Christians try to think about

Bitcoin in ways that aren't intuitively obvious to them.

And Brandon.

Yes, thank you. I'm Brandon Gentile. I am a former college

hockey player, professional hockey player turned business

guy for 10 years. Really a real estate guy, real estate

investor. And just the last handful of years, really became

a Bitcoin specifically, Bitcoin specific author, educator,

podcaster, and helped Bitcoin trading cards as well with their

back end and marketing and everything as well. So that team

there and that is really my last 15, 20 years.

I love it. Fun fact, if anybody didn't know it. Well, I don't

know. I don't know if I was supposed to out it. But when

there's Satoshi for Bitcoin trading cards, somebody here

might have been in that costume. But anyway, that was a fun

adventure. Yeah, Anthony, you want to kick us off with your

thoughts on this?

All right, sure. So Parable of Talents, what is it? It's a

story in the Bible. And it is Jesus speaking to the disciples

telling a parable. And you hear this get brought up. You hear

well, okay, let me backtrack a little bit. You hear people

sometimes in the progressive camp, especially on social

media, sometimes just say that Jesus was a socialist. And

another interesting thing about the Parable of Talents within

the Parable of Talents, and I'll tell the story of what it is

real quick. But he says the line, to each according to his

ability, which you may hear that line and think, wait, that's

not calling. Yeah. To to each according to his ability. From

each according to his ability to each according to his need is

what Karl Marx said. So Karl Marx, the, the author of the

Communist Manifesto, basically bastardized scripture. So it

gets really confusing for people. But in this parable,

Jesus tells a story of a master, basically a, you could call him

like a capitalist or like a business owner, a guy with

money. And he has three servants. And in the story, he

gives to one servant five talents, which I didn't do the

math on this. I have at one point, didn't you guys know what

a talent is and like a weight of silver by chance? Anybody

know? I feel like it's looking over now. Yeah, it's only like

an hour's worth of wages. Croc, help us Croc. Some somebody

looked it up on time. So he gives one guy five talents,

which is silver, essentially. He gives him a bunch of silver

coins. He gives another guy two talents, and he gives another

guy one talent. He goes on a journey. And he says steward

over this, basically, take this, invest it, make me some

money. And when I come back, you know, show me what you've done.

There's a guy who had nine to 12 years wages. And if it was a

gold talent, it was 15 to 20 years wages. Okay, I think

these are silver. So it's a ton of money, actually.

Yeah, one biblical talent is about 75 pounds.

Wow. Wow. Of gold. Yeah. Yeah. What's the dollar value of 75

pounds? 600,000 us. Okay, a lot of money. So he's essentially

given these guys this upstart capital and said, Hey, I'm going

to give you this money, just go out, start businesses, and let's

expand my empire. And so the guy that he gave five to, you know,

that guy went out and successfully ran businesses and

was able to make enough profit that he made double the amount

of money back. So he was originally given five talents,

he made 10. The guy that was given to made four, so he

doubled it, the guy that was given one, did nothing but

basically bury it in the ground and was like, this, this greedy

capitalist boss of mine. You know, I'm not gonna, I'm not

gonna work for him. I'm not gonna risk his money. Basically,

the guy didn't trust himself, but is calling the guy who gave

the money greedy. And so when the master comes back, you know,

everybody comes together, and he looks over the businesses. And

he's like, wow, the guy that I gave the most to, you know, was

able to give me a return of the exact same amount, the guy that

I gave the second most to same thing. The third guy calls him

greedy to his face. And then the master like throws out the guy

who had the least. So it's a story of meritocracy. And it's a

story that is honoring of business of building something

of making a profit. So basically, Jesus was very much

not a socialist, he was, he was a capitalist. What I find so

interesting about this story, aside from that is now, we have

Bitcoin, which is something that sort of exists outside of

capitalism. And I think there's a lot of implications for

everybody. But for Christians specifically, it's another

really interesting thing about Bitcoin. It's the only money

that doesn't have Caesar's face on it, it doesn't have, it's not,

you know, no country owns it. And so there's interesting

applications for that for, for Christians as well. Because, you

know, in the Bible, there's another story where somebody

tries to trick Jesus basically brings him this coin, and says,

should we pay taxes? And he's like, whose face is on the coin?

It's Caesars, it's it's Caesars money. So you know, feel free to

give it to him. God is the one who provides all of your your

income anyway. So if you trust God, you should, you know, not

be concerned about paying taxes and stuff. But Bitcoin doesn't

have anybody's face on it. So after saying all that, what are

you guys thoughts on this?

In the biblical context of like Bitcoin, rather, or like the

like, well, I guess what's the stir the pot a little bit. So

actually, let me stir the pot. Jordan, knowing your history as

like a missionary, how do you think this, you know, the story

of the talents kind of resonates in the Bitcoin era with like

people in Venezuela, or people just in Latin America, like the

greater south? When it comes to? Do you think they actually can

get back to believing that you can get ahead? Because they've

been pushed out so hard?

Yeah, I mean, I don't think they have a problem thinking about

getting ahead. I don't think I think that this story is really

important. Because the the thing that you I mean, you hit on the

fact that you know, God isn't a socialist and God doesn't. Again,

he were quite true generosity is is volitional generosity. It

doesn't it just doesn't mean a government telling you you have

to do this. And you know, saying like, we have control over all

these things, we're going to force you to do we're gonna

force you to be generous, like that, that's not generosity. And

so what you what you see here is in this in this story, it's

really, really interesting. And the reason I think it's

important is because we don't have any framework for what the

scriptures and what God thinks about money, what God thinks

about generosity, we are like, so far, it's kind of like the

phrase here, like late stage capitalism, you know, it's all

fraught phrase in and of itself. But like, you have this thing

where everyone just like, Oh, yeah, yeah, late stage

capitalism. Sure. Yeah. You know, and it's just like, we act like

we understand what these things mean, even though we really have

done the first clue. And so I think that this passage can be

one that's helpful to start to, you know, start to form and like

layout and kind of articulate a biblical understanding of, you

know, of economics more broadly, in addition to, you know, just

investing, there's lots of things here. So like, just the

idea of like God, God giving people not the exact same

amount, like that offensive to a whole lot of people like God,

God doesn't just give everybody the same amount. So we're not

God is not a radical egalitarian in this sense. You know, it's,

it should do we have a problem with the fact that Elon Musk,

you know, is a is, you know, a quadrillionaire and the rest of

us aren't what knows. That's, that's okay. That's fine. You

know, and again, we obviously there's, we could get into

details. And obviously, there's exceptions to this. There's

different, there's list different ways of making money

that are that are more or less listed in your moral than

others. But I still think this is a it's a helpful thing to

think about. You know, just the fact that you have some sort of

framework, because most of us were just kind of grasping,

we'll just, you know, this is what I've heard, this is what I

see, and just try to normalize, you know, try to normalize

things. And so I just think it's, it's one of the things

where you need to, I think we're in a moment where, again, people

don't know what things are, and we don't have a framework by

which to determine what we do know. So we don't have like a

big $5 word is like epistemological framework.

epistemology is just how do you know what you know. And so I

think that we're in a moment where people are really

struggling to try to figure out how do we really know anything.

And so you have people on the on the left who are saying, well,

this is what I feel, you know, and so I'm going to, I'm going

to trust my feelings. This is what I, you know, my body, I

feel out of place my body. And so I, you know, this is how I

know, I know what I should do, because, you know, I feel this

way. And so I think that's, that's one source of

epistemological truth. And then I think there's a whole bunch of

other ones that we, you know, there's that other groups use.

And so I think that, again, just having this verse in this

passage, and I think Christians need to start thinking about how

to help the people around them, whether they're Christians or

not think through and acknowledge, you know, and

understand the difficulties that they're enduring and kind of why

why those are.

Brandon, do you have any thoughts on like, you know,

because I'm curious, kind of double clicking from your

perspective, because I know you have the athlete perspective.

And I'm very curious if there's an angle to like, the number of

NFL stars and the number of NHL stars are just athletes who go

professional, but then they lose everything, right? Like, why do

you think that is? And do you think it's like, is it a lack of

God? Like, is it a lack of understanding of something like

this? Or it's like, hey, you kind of have to like, because

the word is stewardship, right? It's like, they're not, do they

not learn how to be good stewards? Like, I don't know.

I'm just curious.

Yeah, no, this is something I think about a lot, just in terms

of how does a society collapse, I guess, like, what comes first?

And I probably talked about this with you, J.D., I probably

talked about with you, Jordan, I just like what comes first? Is

it, is it God that leaves society first? Or, you know, the

people remove themselves from God, from truth, and then the

money goes? Or is it the money that goes first, and then it

becomes people just unravel, and then like, God goes, you know,

right after that, or just morality? It's like, what comes

first? You always come back to like, okay, yeah, people leave

God, people leave truth first, and then it's very easy for the

money to become corrupted. And someone, I think Anton was

saying earlier, a quick aside is that, like, Bitcoin, the

monetary layer, I think, because I was, I was just talking over

Christmas about this with a couple of family members, and

they were getting very confused in thinking that the money was

intricately linked to the economic system you have. So

like, it's very timely, I guess, talking about Karl Marx, right?

Where in this parable about people like interlinked, like

thinking of capitalism and inflation, or like, natural,

like, inflation is a natural law, like that, like, that's

just part of life. Like, that's how money works. And it's

couldn't be further from the truth, where money is the

foundation, it's the bedrock, you know, pulling on another,

you know, thinking about another verse in the Bible, but being

you build your house on rock, or, you know, instead of sand,

right? So monetary bedrock is there, that's what undergirds

the financial system. And then you build your system on top

that whatever you choose, I mean, it could be socialism could

be capitalism, it could be whatever it is. But when you

corrupt that bedrock, or you're building on sand, which would be

fiat, then you can put anything as we see, you can put

capitalism, the best thing we found to run a human economic

structure, and it's still going to collapse over time, this

where is where Jordan, you made me think of this, where the like

late stage fiat, because that it's not capitalism is failing,

it's the monetary bedrock, that's on sand, it's late stage

fiat, because now everything's just falling and collapsing and

floating in on itself. So and then bring it back to just the

parable itself, I think, again, it's such a great parable,

because it's, it's showing as well, like you can, you can't,

it's okay to, you know, Christians, I think have a hard

time just being okay with wealth at times, right. And it's okay

to go multiply your wealth, we need to go multiply our wealth

to go then really combat evil, all over the place and combat

darkness and disinfect darkness. And a lot of times you have to

have wealth in order to do that. And then the other half time

you don't, you know, you can be Mother Teresa, you could be

extremely poor or in poverty or, or whatever it might be and

doing good works. But another way, a big way to combat that

is to have wealth and then, you know, go and do good deeds with

that wealth. So I think it's just a it's a great parable to

talk about, because there's so many, you can just take so many

ways with it.

I, when I was younger, I used to think that, you know, I look at

these, like, tribes that existed, you know, like the

K'un, I think they're called the San and the Kalahari. And they

were like these egalitarian tribes. And I would look at

them, they didn't have anything, they didn't have buildings,

they, they just were hunter gatherer tribes. And I would

think, those people are basically the best people in the

world. I, essentially, I thought that they didn't have

sin that, that their society just functioned perfectly. And

it turns out that's not true at all. And that in throughout

history, basically, all tribes have had warfare against each

other, they have all the same struggles that we have, they

just don't have the technology to build things. So what do you

guys think about the idea of like cultivating, and gardening

and building? And, and then like, how, how will a world in

which Bitcoin is gaining more and more value? How will it

change the way that we cultivate the world and our role in that?

I'm curious, I'm really curious, your, your take on this

Pandora, because you, you actually both of you guys have

lived in LA longer than I have, but like, I'm very curious if

cities will ever be built like Los Angeles again. And it's

actually interesting, because like half of Los Angeles just

burned down. But being raised, way, way, way less than half,

but yeah, I know. Yeah. 1%. I wish you were. Come on, man.

But, but that's nothing burned down. I mean, Malibu, the

Palisades, Altadena was amazing.

I know, it's wild. But the, the question is, like, you know, is

it going to be rebuilt? On a big, like, we're still in

Fiat land, right? But do you think there's a chance that some

of the thinking that goes back into the reconstruction is like

a Bitcoin bedrock, kind of like what Brandon was talking about?

Like, can the foundation be Bitcoin? And then it's like, is

the stewardship of this space going to be different? Or do you

think it's just going to be, it's actually going to get

worse? Like people are going to put like an 80 story high rise

with the 70,000 sardine cans, and just try and go with it?

Yeah, it'll be 80,000 story, sardine high rise, of course,

because, because Bitcoin is gonna take a long time to, to

make its way through the culture. And that's just, that's

just the way it is. That's how the growth is going to happen.

Because it's all bottom up, not top down. You can't just say,

great, everyone use Bitcoin in the, even in El Salvador, where

they've tried to do that. The people in El Salvador, like some

of them are like, yeah, this is great. But the vast majority are

like, no, no, thanks. Just give me what I'm used to. Um, but to

bring it back to the Parable of Talents. Because there is an

interesting thing. There's an interesting dynamic here. The

fundamental like assumption in a Parable of Talents situation is

that they had monetary metals as their money, right? Which are

inherently inflationary as you mine more monetary metals. So

that's why like, there's this assumption in the parable that

says, yo, we are, you know, if you just, if you just bury it,

that's going to be worse than if you put it in the, the, with the

bankers, because there's an inflationary dynamic at play

that says like, it's actually like you're actually losing

money by just burying it, because there is inflation,

right? Now, you put it in the bankers, you get the interest.

And so you're actually, quote, unquote, keeping pace with that

inflation. Now, the inflation is, of course, super small,

because they don't have extreme mining situations like they do

now. Um, but I think that's, that's a part of the parable.

Now, to bring it back to your question, how does Bitcoin

actually change this, this in particular, because we're no

longer going to be in that inflationary world, it's going

to be 0% inflation, like hard stop, when you buried in the

ground, like that is actually probably going to be a wise

choice. In some capacities, it's going to be more wise than

putting it at the banker where it can like, get hacked and

stolen and, you know, hyper, we have complicated, etc. Right. So

the understanding of the parable of the talents is going to

change in the future. I mean, the root truth of their like the

root truth that we've been trying to get across, you know,

be responsible stewards doesn't change. But the culture around

how it views this parable is going to change, it's going to

be interesting. In fact, I'd love to hear Jordan's immediate

thoughts on that. But yeah, I'd like I've thought about this a

couple times. I'm like, I don't, it's just it's very weird. Like

there's going to be weird things that happen. And how do we

prepare for that? Like, because we're entering a brand new world

here. We've never seen anything like this, apart from very small

situations where the trade was cut off. And so the monetary

inflation was literally zero and all that. Yeah, it's gonna be a

strange time. Jordan.

Yeah, I think still, again, while granting this is new, in

some ways, I think this the temptations of all these things

that are described in this passage are still going to be

true. So like one of the things you look at, I mean, you can see

this some of this attitude just in the way that, you know, at

least with the conversations I have with Christians today,

right? Like, I'll say, hey, you should talk about, you know, you

should invest some money in Bitcoin. You know, like, if you

got some long term savings, like, you know, put some into

Bitcoin. And you have this, you know, people like, oh, it's too

volatile, you know, they have like this, it's this, this fear

of the bitcoins volatility. And so there's really at root is

like a fear of risk. And so you see, the interesting about this

passage is, you have the two people who assumed risk are the

ones who are commended, because it was skillful risk. You know,

it wasn't just rash, do whatever, you know, has no

correspondence with reality. It was it was skillful, calculated,

wise risk. And then, and then you have the guy who, again, is

the kind of took the safe bet, which for a lot of people,

especially when they think about Bitcoin, they think about

investments more broadly, like they think they're being

faithful by, but you know, by not assuming risk. And in the

case of this one, the master, you know, master in this in this

passage rebukes the guy, because again, because of the

justification for the risk or the lack of risk taking. So he

says his his excuses, right there in verse 24, I knew you to

be a hard man, reaping where you didn't sow and gathering where

you where you scatter no seed. So you guys are saying like,

you're you get something for nothing. Like, I knew you to be

a hard man who gets something for nothing, you know, and so I

was I was afraid and I buried it in the ground. And so you see

this, I mean, the elsewhere, you can see this same kind of thing.

This is this is a sinful fear that precludes you prevent you

from from taking risks that would demonstrate a faith in in

your master, in our case, you know, the bigger picture, like a

faith in God. And so I think that this is a really important

thing, if you're going to apply this to Bitcoin, you know, there

there is a there is a real time for for the assumption of

necessary risk. And I think that we're in a moment when like

buying Bitcoin, obviously, there's a risk associated with

that anything could happen, we actually could see solar flares

that, you know, burn up every computer and whatever and render

all that uses is certainly possible. But there's also other

risk of just the government continuing to steal from you by

creating money out of there. Those are far more, you know,

far more reels are happening in real time. So I think that's

that's one thing. I also think the way that you the master's

response is telling. So whereas the, you know, the man who

buried his talents, he attributed to fear, he said, I

was afraid to do this. And so I buried it, because I was afraid

of you, it's kind of a little shot at the master. But the

master respond, wicked and wicked and slothful servant. So

he just basically the master who's supposed to be like the

the actual perspective here of what's going on, he attributes

the burying in the burying of the of the talents of the you

know, the silver, the gold, whatever, in the ground to to

wickedness and slothfulness, laziness, this guy didn't want

to work hard to, you know, to do something hard. And so the

easiest thing was just to bury it in the ground. And then you

can just, you can kind of blame is, you know, blame the master.

It's very similar to what we see. And I think this is this

is deliberate. There's a lot of parallels between this passage

and the passage in Genesis three, you know, you have, you

know, Adam and Eve, they blame God, basically, you know, Adam

says, the woman you gave me, you know, the serpent is here, you

know, they blame everybody but themselves. And so I think

there's, there's a lot of parallels there. And so I do

think I do think that, again, one of the things that we need

to do is just call Christians to be brave and call Christians on

their, you know, on their wicked, their tendency towards

wicked, and faithless risk avoidance. And so yeah, I think

in terms of how it's going to affect, again, you're still

going to have, you're going to have people who are willing to,

you know, assume risk, and you're going to have people who

are going to be afraid of doing that. And, you know, and again,

there's still going to be opportunities to seek yield, you

know, in the, in the case of, you know, bankers that, you

know, are described here, you're still going to have places that

are awful, you offer you yield on your Bitcoin, you're still

going to have places that are going to offer you more yield

and be more risky. And, you know, again, I think there's

there's a time and a place potentially for some of those

things. But I do think it's going to be Bitcoin just due to

the nature of it, at least in the next, you know, the next 10

years or so, you know, you don't, you won't have to pursue

the same kind of insane risk that you're kind of forced into

in a situation where the currency is so far debased. So

there's a lot of different ways we could go. But yeah.

Do you think Brandon, I got a random like hot take too, but I

know the the adage is if you want to control the people who

give them bread and circus, do you think we're going to see a

world when we get further down like the Bitcoin path where,

like sports becomes less important? Or is it going to

become more important? Like, I'm very curious, actually your

take as an athlete? Do you think Bitcoin makes it more

valuable to have a skill like, you know, being a pro hockey

player or a pro basketball player or whatever it is? Or is

it actually going to like, change it? And how do you think

that's going to happen?

It's definitely going to change. I think about this a fair amount

too. There's a lot of me that, you know, one of the reasons I

left, whatever it was 12 years ago, was because it was people

didn't want to be around. Again, this is the fiat endgame

like late stage fiat, like we were talking about earlier. So

this is, you know, you kind of devolve into celebrity, you

know, athletics is just people that are, you think as a kid,

right? You think like, Oh, this is these are great people. Like

these are, in essence, like the best of the best, like these,

these guys get after if anyone's listened to any of David Goggin

stuff over time, not necessarily Christian thing here, but any of

his stuff over time, you know, he talked about making getting

into the SEAL teams, and in the Navy, and then being like, All

right, guys, let's get after it. And everyone's like, What do you

mean, man? Like, we were, we're good. Like, we made it, you

know, he's like, what, like, what do you mean? Like, where's

the next finish line? Like, let's get after it. Like, let's

get even better. And most people are just kind of like, yeah,

like, we're good. That's a lot like athletics. That's, I'm

sure a lot like Hollywood or whatever it is, like people get

this certain echelon and people just you start people just keep

falling off over time to like their levels of comfort of, of,

you know, there's only a very few amount of select few people

that I think really just constantly are getting after it.

And it's a very small percent, maybe a couple percent of the

population. That's about it. And, and quite honestly, I think

it's a lot of the Bitcoiners are in that group of people who are

just, they're, they're highly regarded people, right? And they

there was maybe something a little bit off with them. And

there's

there's never, there's always another finish line. But I think

it's like that segment of society that really takes life

to that level. I mean, you look at like, again, I talked about

the American Revolution a lot. And it was only a couple percent

of people that, that fought and gave the other 97% freedom, you

know, you think about it, it's like most people were British

loyalists, you know, Tories or whatever they were calling them.

And they were ratting on the Patriot American patriots, and

saying, Hey, they're in there. And, and most people weren't,

you know, they were, they were just like, fine to just like,

well, the the king said, he's only going to tax us 2%, or 5%,

you know, whatever it was, and they were just fine to just be

served for the state still. And, hey, we're at least over here.

But there was a couple percent of people who were like, No,

we're, you know, it's kind of like the crypto reserve, right?

What happened this past week, this got a not, you know,

crypto reserve got announced. And what do you see a bunch of

weapons being like, yeah, like, no, no, no, no, like, this, this

is not how this goes. That's one of the bets. I mean, I was

told my wife, that's one of the bets I have on Bitcoin. You

know, the technology of it is superior, all these different

aspects. But like, part of the bet to me is like, these people

in Bitcoin are highly regarded, man, like they are, they're not

going to go down, they will die on that hill. Those are the

people I want to put my money with. And those are the that's,

you know, generally how I am as a human being. So like, I align

with that. And, and, you know, I don't call it martyrdom, or,

you know, whatever you want to call it, it's like, that's, I'm

not going to put any of us in that class. But I think there's

a lot of people in Bitcoin, that will take it to that level,

quite honestly, and, and seeing that this is this economic

system that undergirds all this, the, you know, like all these

parables, you kind of look through all these things, and

what was the common theme of a lot of people who were doing

said thing, or they wouldn't compromise on those values, or

they wouldn't compromise on their, their truth, or, you

know, or morality, or natural law, whatever it was, people

are willing to put their life on the line and to uphold those

things. So I think that, you know, I didn't answer most of

your sports questions, but I think that, you know, I think

I answered most of your sports question. But in saying that, I

hope it should be somewhat obvious that like, I, I'm not

pushing any of my kids to be in sports, like, do they play

sports? Yeah, they do. I don't care what level they're at, like

to me, athletics, and my wife was an athlete as well played at

Michigan State was an athlete as well. And it was just like, we

kind of looked back, we're like, there's like a bunch of losers

that you're kind of around. All throughout. I'm not saying just

at Michigan State, right. But like all throughout, there's

people that I didn't want to be involved with, they weren't

trying to get after it, they weren't the best versions of

themselves. And it's just you kind of look at it, you're like,

well, why? Like, what do we do this for? So anyway, I hope it

becomes a less, I hope it becomes less of a, like the all

the sports gambling, all the things that have happened, I

hope Bitcoin helps correct a lot of these things, right? Like,

all these things have sprung up because of late stage VR, where

people are out the risk curve gambling on things because they

feel like they have to, or maybe because they literally have to,

they have to buy lotto tickets all the time. And I hope that

changes. And we've now bastardized and destroyed much

of the sports. And I think humans always want to compete. I

hope we I hope we do. I'm trying to like, square the circle

somehow of like, is that I think it's a tricky topic. Like I

hope, I hope sports becomes more prevalent in the sense that

people feel the need to do that instead of go to war. Like I

almost hope the Olympics become a bigger thing. But like the

money involved is not as as great if that makes sense. So

you're I don't know how you work those two things, where like

there's more people involved, there's even more talent in the

future in the sports world. But there's actually less money

involved. Because you see, again, sports, you have the

athletes that you're watching the NFL football game, and you

can't even watch half the time. I mean, like, again, I'm from

Michigan. So like the Detroit Lions is here, we're an

unbelievable team, and Super Bowl favorites, like the entire

year or whatever half the year, well, their team got decimated

by injuries. And and you have this world where like, got the

rules are such that you have to protect certain guys and do

certain things. So guys are getting injured. And, and so

like, you can't even watch the game half the time. And there's

so much money riding on one guy or certain guys because of this,

because of the fiat system we're in that people are out the risk

curve trying to, to make their their payment on their mortgage

that month. So they're doing things that otherwise they maybe

they wouldn't do. So anyway, it's a long rambling way of

just trying to say, I hope that there's sports becomes better in

the sense in the sense of like, just people doing that instead

of going to war. You think of like Navy SEALs or spec ops

guys, hopefully those guys are playing sports someday. And we

don't need them fighting wars as much, right. So it's just it's

this weird dynamic, and I hope the money becomes less of an

aspect of it. But people actually do it more, because,

hey, I'm well off, or we can do these things that can just

become the best version, use my talents, or whatever they are to

the best of my abilities, my artistic or athletic abilities.

I like that in the in the parable, it doesn't tell you how

long that the master has been away. But it does speak to time

preference a little bit, because it says he was away for a really

long time. And if you think about it, the guys that had five

and two, you have no idea what they invested in, did they buy

a vineyard? Because at some point, they were out the money.

If the master were to come back, he'd been like, where's my

money? And I'd be like, I spent, you know, half of it buying this

thing, like the business isn't operating yet. And there have

been a couple athletes like Okung, Russell Okung, who've

taken their salary in Bitcoin. The interesting thing about

that, is let's say you take your your pay in Bitcoin, then you

hit a bear market. What do you do? If you balled out of

control, and you've bought like McLaren's and houses and who

knows what boats, those payments could come due, and

you might actually be down. And for all for people investing in

Bitcoin, it's like, yeah, it's a little different than the

parable of the talents, because you kind of are burying it by

hodling, you're kind of burying it. But you're experiencing a

deflation, essentially, which is making the amount of value in

dollar terms go up over the long term, by holding on to it, which

is inherently risky. Yeah, there's one thing, it's kind of

a weird thing to say about a Bible verse, but I kind of wish

that it was a little different. I wish that within these guys,

there was a shit corner. And there was like one guy who made

really bad investments. Because there are there are people who

would do that, like, we're taking a risk by investing in

Bitcoin. But it's a very, very calculated risk that we've

studied, we feel a conviction about. And there's there are a

lot of people out there right now, who are working hard to

just gamble on coins that are complete scams. And in this

parable, the master is essentially a, it is, it's

symbolizing God, essentially, who is ultimately wise knows who

he's choosing knows who has the ability and who's going to make

the wise investment. So in this parable, he's not going to

choose somebody like that. But in reality, you have a lot of

things that you can, that you have the opportunity to invest

or gamble in. And so you've got to take a risk, but you you

better do your due diligence.

One thing that's interesting about the last thing you just

said, and I think Christians and people in general, like it's the

whole, why do bad things happen to good people thing. But it

goes to, you know, the unfortunate truth of like, not

all people are God's people. Jordan, give me a minute for

you for that one. But I think that's the truth. Awesome. Thank

you, camera for freezing. But the other piece is best, best

time always. But I think the thing that's the most unique

about this is the guy who got the one was the least

trustworthy of the bunch. And so it kind of goes to the master,

having the foresight to give people according to their

ability, but then also give somebody something more than

they were capable of. And then he's kind of upset that he kind

of lived in the expectation he had is like, I'm going to give

you more than you can handle. And you just proved to me that I

was wrong. And it actually in the verse, you know, where he

goes, and this is actually the second thing that the master

said, I'll pull it back up again, if people want to read

it, but it was probably the most like, thing that hit me the

hardest is where it says, you knew that I reap where I have

not sown and gather where I scattered no seed. And like, in

that phrase, as a question, is more of like, you think that

around it, my take on it, and Jordan, you can correct me if

I'm wrong on this, but it's like, you were afraid, because

you thought that, like, I'm blanking, I'm like, how did in a

second, the one all everywhere, but at the end of the day, he's

like, you, you, you were afraid, and you thought that by burying

it in the ground, like, that would be more valuable than you

trying to try, like attempting something as kind of a kind of

the way I take it is like, the way I take it is like, what you

did by doing nothing, was even worse than the next line, which

is like giving to the bankers, like doing nothing was below the

expectation I had for you, like the expectation I had for you is

to do something. That's

so actually, I think it's worse than that, actually. And I think

it I think this plays itself out. The master asks, like, you

knew that I reaped where I did not. So you knew that that was

in your head, right? So why didn't you just do anything?

Because it's my money, and I would have reaped where I did

not. So, right. It's like you're, you knew that you confess

to this, and yet you act contrary to your own knowledge

to your own confession.

And the guy is so arrogant that he's basically saying, yeah,

you're the master, you have all this money, I'm actually better

than you, I'm actually smarter than you. And yet, he didn't

even trust in himself to take a risk and to invest. So deep down

he knew that he wasn't actually capable of investing. And yet he

tries to pin it on the guy who originally made the capital and

say, No, no, no, no, I'm better than you. But deep down, he

knows that he's not capable.

And I think what Steven said to another aspect of it is, like,

the master is clearly accusing him of like, either lying or

being self deceived. He's like, you're attributing fault to me,

when reality like you are the problem. It's not me, that's the

problem. It's you, that's the problem. And so I think that

yeah, I think again, to see, I think it's instructive to look

at the the other two examples, because in the case of both of

the other two examples, the master renders to each one

according to their works, right? So it's in this is the pattern

that we see all throughout scripture. It's not just sowing

and reaping, it's sowing and exponential reaping. So like you

you know, you so like you take a piece of fruit, and you take a

seed and you plant the seed in the ground, you don't just get

one piece of fruit, you get a tree that produces 100 pieces of

fruit. And so you do have like this, this multiplicative, you

know, multiplicative, you know, expectation that God has for,

for, you know, when he when he basically entrusts stuff to us.

I think it's also interesting, because like, if you're, if

you're watching this, you're like, wait, what are talents?

Like, is that is that like our abilities? It actually like our

word talents today, where we think about like the things that

we can do, or the abilities that we have actually comes from this

passage, like this, this passage had such an impact that like

these, you know, talents back then was just an amount of gold.

But because of you know, it you could people applied it more

broadly to like all that God has given us, it actually became

known as as talents. So you know, if you have a you know,

talent as a basketball player, you know, what a videographer or

whatever it is, it comes from from this passage.

That's actually interesting, too, because I didn't even

realize that, you know, thinking through it, but the like the

whole thing about the talents, but as he had to made to but

talent, as we talked about the top of this was like was a year's

worth of wages. And so it's the talent is what you're going to

put into a year's worth of effort. And so like, if you're

you know, when people say their talents, like you're a talented

football player, if I tell you, you're a talented hockey player,

immediately, what's conjures up in my mind is years of effort.

And so that's actually interesting. I didn't even

think about that, because like the the talented, like the

charge of that word, this is one of the things that I really

loved about CS Lewis of like coming back and like, we need

to take charge of these words as Christians. It's like, it's so

unfortunate that we've kind of seeded so much ground on the

battle of the battlefield of words, because it's it's so easy

for people to be confused now, because we've sacrificed words

like marriage and covenant and all these things. And so that's

really, really, you know, that is actually one of the things we

talked yesterday in on the show about like, you know, like

cathedrals and kind of like, what are some of the things

when I come back, I actually think the the old robber baron

like way of, and I can't remember, it was Carnegie or was

right, I think it was Rockefeller, but it was like,

don't, don't insult somebody who buys ink by the barrel type

thing. It was like the old, it might have been Hearst,

actually. But he was basically talking about, you know, don't

go to don't go to war with somebody who can basically print

whatever story he wants the world to know, and gaslight

people into believing a certain thing. And I think what's gonna

be really, really interesting is as we get to a Bitcoin world,

and this is one of my favorite things about if you've read the

white paper, and you kind of do any deep diving on Adam back,

like one of the things Adam had was, like, basically, you have

to pay to email somebody that was like one of the things if I

remember correctly, and it's like, if you think about that

based in a Bitcoin world where it's finite, it's like, you're

gonna make a real big deduction of like, do I actually need or

want to send this email? And it's gonna be really interesting

to like, you know, think about everything in a context of, you

know, I'm not just gonna send junk mail, like junk mail will

actually go away. And like, lives will be better for it

because you have less stuff for your brain to sift through.

Yeah, there's an opportunity cost, like safety and just had a

tweet about this this morning and about how just like the what

the one of the downstream effects of the SPR over time

will be that it'll it'll basically teach the United

States, you know, about the the idea of an opportunity cost.

Can I can I mention one other thing, because I think this is

really instructive, too. So like in this passage, okay, so in

this passage, you have three amounts of money that are given

out. All right. But what's the ultimate? What's the ultimate

stand in for this, like the ultimate thing that God has

given us is our own lives. And so like, so at the end, so like

at the end of, you know, when when the master returns, he

gives to each one in accordance with what they've done. So like

the first guy is super faithful, you know, and so he says, here's

here's five more, you know, well done, my good and faithful

servant, I will set you over much enter into the joy of your

master, something similar to the second guy. And so like

fruitfulness in, you know, with little brings fruitfulness in,

in, you know, in rulership over much. And so it's interesting,

right? It's actually pretty fitting. Like, if you like if

you are a good steward of your life, and what does that look

like to mean to be a good steward of your life? At the end

of the day, it's to give it's to entrust your life to Christ.

Like it's to put it in his hands and carry out his will. And so

what you know, it would make sense that you would be given

eternal life. You know, if you steward your life and give it to

the person who you know, is the best the best steward of it, if

you entrust it to his care, then you know, the the reaping that

you get is infinite lifetimes, effectively, you know, that's

that's, you know, that's how you could, you know, it's kind of

eternal life isn't just this random thing, like it's actually

it corresponds with, you've lived life faithfully. And so

I'm going to give you a whole bunch more of them more than you

could possibly, you know, imagine.

I love the double meaning of this pair is one of my favorite

parables in the Bible. I love that it both applies to creating

something, taking risks and making a profit and in the sense

of actually making money. And it also applies to evangelism using

the life that God has given you to basically bring light into

the world to essentially to tell other people about Jesus, what

God has done to to bless your life, so that their life gets

blessed. And there is a multiplicative effect that

happens that's not just generating profit, it's actually

like generating souls that are saved, people that get the

blessing of God by you, essentially showing the blessing

that has been given to you. And, and it's both, it's both applies

to business and moneymaking and to evangelism. And yeah, it's

just beautiful. And this short little story, you get both of

those things.

Random, one more thing, and sorry to jump back in, but

actually curious. Brandon, I think your superpowers

relationships, like you're just a frickin relationship machine,

like everybody loves you. But I'm very curious, the the

parables with or rather the corollaries with with the

investments here with relationships, because I

actually think a lot of like myself personally, like I think

I struggle with relationships sometimes. And, you know, I

don't think I have a good sense sometimes, on like the proper

way to grow or foster duties. And I'd actually really love to

hear your take on the application of this to, you

know, it's like, to relationships, or it's like,

hey, like, I, I'm investing in these things. And I'm growing

these things and like perspective on like, why I think

they're important, how you grow them, how you move them. But

then also like how it comes back to this of like, you know, God

has given me the ability to talk to a lot of people minister to

a lot of people spread a message to a lot of people. And I, you

know, how do you see that kind of playing out here of like,

because I'm sure more people are reaching out to you and you to

Jordan, you know, every day, like, how do you think this kind

of correlates to like relationships? And how does that

change in like a Bitcoin world, like the relationship to become

more valuable, they become less?

I think it's, I think relationships are everything. And

I'll say this, I appreciate the kind words, I always think that

about you, quite, quite honestly. And I look at you guys.

And I think that I don't think that about myself. So I

appreciate the kind words, but it's not easy. I mean, number

one, we're men, right? So like, relationships are, you know,

like, I think I think good friendship is like, hey, I can

talk to one of you guys like today, and I can talk to you

like a year from now. And they're like, we picked up right

where we left off, right. And that's the kind of people you

want to be around. I find that a lot in Bitcoin. I mean, I will

say this is kind of the segues beautifully from the story I was

telling earlier of being in athletics. I didn't, I just

didn't get along with a lot of people in athletics. And they

just weren't my people. And so like Bitcoiners, again, I would

be the 10th time 100 time we've hung out or first time and then

like a year from now, we'll just pick right up, you know, right

where we left off. And I think that's true, probably for the

guys that are on here as well in that Bitcoin community. And a

lot of the Christian community as well. I'm sure that's, that's

true as well, right? Like we can just kind of just like we have

these core values. And so in saying all that, the community

is the number one thing in a survival situation. So it's not

gold, or it's not Bitcoin, it's not water, you know, it's like,

because whatever you're deficient at, like Jordan said

earlier, like, if there's a solar flare, or whatever

happens, it's going to be a mad chaos, right? It's Mad Max at

that point. So it's like, who are the people that I'm around?

And who am I going to surround myself with? Because that's the

only thing that's gonna matter, because these people are going

to be helping me with what I'm deficient at. And even though a

lot of us are, you know, again, Bitcoiners tend to, whether they

are just weaponized autists are highly regarded, they think they

are he-man, or they think they're some lone wolf, and like,

I'm just gonna do everything myself, which I know is me at

times, you aren't, you know, so like, that's, that's that

humbling process. And the humility that the humility test

in a way that Bitcoin is where you have to unlearn a lot of

your life in a way and then like relearn it. And I think that's

what Bitcoin does so well is just reframing. Because we're

all doing it, right? We all everyone who's in Bitcoin had to

go in like people think that Bitcoiners are like, you guys

are idiots. Like, how come like, let the free market decide?

It's like, well, number one, we are the free market. Like I am

the free market, Jordan, you know, Anton, we're all the free

market, and we are free to then educate people on the scams that

are going around all around the world. And that's the free

market doing free market things. And it's our duty to go do those

things, which comes back to the parable, which to me is don't

put your head in the sand. Don't take the blue pill. And it's

using your talents, because I'm glad you said that Jordans, I

forgot, I always think of this parable. And Anton, you were

saying it's one of your favorites. I always think of

this parable as just strictly talents. I almost never think of

it. And on the money side, I always am thinking of the

talents of what have I been given? And how can I do things?

Because at times, I'm like, why am I doing this? You know, like,

why? Why am I, you know, spouting my mouth off all the

time or writing things or doing whatever, you know, helping

different companies with stuff or helping Bitcoin trading cards

going to conferences? Like, why? Why am I doing? I could just

have a great life and just go away with my kids and my wife

and have a great life. Because it's just a deeper meaning is

deeper calling that I think God implanted here in me. And I

would I would say probably you to knowing you guys, that it's

like, we could all just go do something else. But we're called

to do this because of the talents we've been given. And

and to not put our head in the sand, because we could do that

we could just go shoot up heroin and go sit under a bridge to

like, every day, we have a choice to go do that. Or you'll

go do this or go do that. And we all get up and choose every

single day like, hey, it's not going to be easy. Most of the

world's not going to be with us. Like we said earlier, the 97%

are not going to be honest, and a lot of them probably never

will be. And we were going to have to drag a lot of them

kicking and screaming to the finish line, as they did in the

American Revolution. And George Washington going across the

Delaware River with icebergs floating by like it's, it's not

gonna be fun. It's not gonna be pretty. But some of us are

called to use those talents in order to further society and

further truth.

Bond or I'm very curious. Yeah. And you opened up but like this,

this is seems like exactly like you've what you've been talking

about, to me, ever since we first met.

Exactly 100% agree with everything you said, Brandon,

well stated. And let me affirm how real the community thing is.

And anytime you can attest to this, for years, I basically

just posted on Facebook as private messages, just

screaming at all of my friends, but never actually engaging with

the wider Bitcoin community. And since engaging with the wider

Bitcoin community, it's like, whoa, these people, it's like,

it's like, part of that was like, I wanted to, like, it was

like, Bitcoin is a totally decentralized thing. I wanted to

build, I didn't, I didn't. It's not like I wanted to do it

alone. Like I was engaging people like Anton. But I wanted

to build as like, yo, we don't I don't even, I don't even need to

be a satellite for the larger community. I can like literally

be my own node with my own network, my own private Bitcoin

network. And like, you can do that you can build that it's

like, totally doable. It just is so hard. And it takes so long

because you have so much less people in your community. The

amount of people that you get when you open up to the broader

community is just bonkers. I mean, JD, JD and I started or

restarted the Bitcoin meetup here.

And just say like, Bondor basically started this new one.

I'm gonna give you 100% of the credit like is the heart and

soul of Nelda Bitcoin. So

but the point is, once we open that up, it you know, starts

it's just me and JD because we met at the conference. Right?

First conference I've ever been at the bar. Yeah, at the bar.

And since then, a year ago, a little over a year ago, it's

like grown to the last meeting was 21 people. And like, that is

like real people in the real community around our area. Like

there's a coffee shop that's close to us that I went to this

week, I think on Tuesday. And like we should we like I roll in

there at whatever 9am. And one of the Bitcoiners who's at the

community, like at our meetup is there, orange pilling another

person. Like, this is LA, like LA proper was like, hell yeah,

this is what I'm talking about. Right?

Nobody ever shows up to anything in LA, the fact that showed up

in real life or something.

And these guys are showing up every guys and girls. And

actually, we have a we almost have like we had a couple weeks

ago where we have more women that all the women in Bitcoin

are in LA, by the way, just FYI, we've found them. But like,

they're just they're just scoping out and prepping for $5

rent attacks. You know, they're just I do. Okay, so I jokingly

say like 15 $15. Exactly. I especially in LA probably 35.

But like, no, I do think that they we joke, but I do think

that that is one easy way kind of bond or what you're saying is

it's easy to withdraw passively because you're thinking, what's

the about the worst thing that could happen, I could get $5

wrenched, I could get, you know, whatever, like the worst things

that can happen that to, you know, use them as a

justification to just not rock the boat or whatever. And yet,

like, yeah, and yet, like so much of even just I mean, again,

we've talked about from a different perspective, but even

as a Christian, like one of the verses that I just, I'm like, I

don't know how I didn't see this before. But like, one of the

things about the kingdom of God is like, it's, it's actually

like on the offensive. And so you know, one of the things that

Jesus says is that the gates of hell won't stand against it. And

in for whatever reason, you think about that, you're like,

Oh, you know, you're like, hell is this big, intimidating thing.

It's like, no, hell is this gated place. And we're like,

charging towards it. And the gates are, they're not going to

be able to stand there forever, we're gonna run over the gates,

like, we're gonna we're gonna break down the gates. And it's

not even gonna be. Yeah, exactly. So like, yeah, the

walls are gonna fall. And so like, again, now, again, there's

gonna be people who are gonna die. In the meantime, there's

gonna be things that are gonna be hard, whatever. But just like

the place for just fear and cowardice and hiding and being

silent, like, there's just no room, like, there's no room for

it. And like, and so if that is your attitude, like that's

demonstrating the same type of cowardice that, you know, the

master rebukes in this guy here. So the move is to attack.

Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Join, join, join the cosmically

regarded ones. And, you know,

yeah, no, I, this is such a great, great thing. I just want

to add one quick thing is that it's, you know, God, God created

the devil, like he was an he's an angel, you know, so it's like,

he has dominion over him. And that's like, we all forget that

I forget that, you know, it's like, like, like you said, fear,

that's what made me think of it. Fear is Satan, you know, and

it's like the what if it's the fear, it's these things that

just consume you. And that's what Satan wants. And God has

control over him. And and he's and what have you just mentioned

that kind of something alluded to something that a minute ago

was when we think of it, too. So I think that's so important to

remember that it's he always, you know, against gates, like

God, we will conquer that we will conquer Satan, we that will

be conquered. And we just have to remember that that he, he's

below God. It's not like, Oh, God and Satan are up here

fighting each other on equal playing field. Like, that's not

an equal playing field. And that's, that's what we all have

to remember. Brandon, you said something about? Yeah, real

quick. So Brandon, you said something about that the way to

survive in a catastrophe is basically through community.

Above all else, it's not like having water stored or having

guns and ammo or having silver coins to use. Man, we saw that

so much with the fires that just happened in LA. Altadena, I was

in the process of moving to a house that burned down. So I was

my neighbor, my entire neighborhood is completely gone.

It's the Yeah, it's, it's ash now. But I had always thought,

you know, I've been looking at Altadena for years, I live

basically adjacent to it. And they don't have community. They

say they have community, but they really don't. Nobody knows

each other's names. And I am a part of all these Facebook

groups for people that live in Altadena. And a lot of them are

like, yeah, there was this guy that lived on my street. He

drove a red car, he always wore this certain baseball cap. I

never got his name. Does anybody know who I'm talking about? I

wanted to check on him. Is he okay? Nobody knew each other's

names. And a lot of people have GoFundMes. A lot of people

didn't get almost any money on their GoFundMes. And then a few

people that had really done the work to create a community for

themselves, which, if you've ever been a part of a community,

it takes a little bit of sacrifice. It's a little bit of

a risk to go out there in the real world and make friends. And

you also have to be generous yourself. And it's so worth it.

Because when you need that community, if you put in the

work, it's there. If you didn't, it's not there.

Yeah, I said one thing. So like one of the dangers of money and

over reliance on a monetary economy is that money enables

artificial community. Like money basically enables you to buy

people to help you, like to buy people's attention to care about

you. And so like you can, again, that can work for a period of

time, but there'll come a point where that'll end, you know. And

so like, this is one of the things where I never forget. One

of my wife's best friends, one of my best friends, she was

married. And I don't, I can't remember if they had kids at

that point. But we just were talking about having kids. And

we just said, you know, like, we're planning on having, you

know, good, good number of kids. Because like, when we get old,

somebody's gonna have to take care of us. And, you know, if we

have, even if we just have like one or two kids, then that's,

that's a lot. Like, taking care of two parents is a lot for one

or two kids. So if you have four or five, six kids, whatever,

then it's easier to spread the load. And if you don't have any

kids, and obviously, there's people who are unable to have

kids. And so like, that's a whole different situation. So

you know, again, they work it out differently. So this is some

condemnation. But like, but what we said was, like, there's

people who are just planning, oh, I'm not gonna have any kids.

Like, that's kind of their game plan. Now, it's I'm not gonna

have any kids, because I want to work, I want to make money, I

want to do whatever. At the end of your life, you're going to

spend the vast majority, if you don't have kids to care for,

you're going to spend the vast majority of your money, paying

other people to try to care about you are trying to pay

people to convince them to care about you. And in an inflationary

world that gets even like, it's more expensive than you're ever

prepared for. So I think I think that this is, you know, Bitcoin

will kind of help help people. I don't know, it's restored

people's priorities in a lot of ways, just by being a more sane,

you know, I don't know, it's, it's more connected to like,

it's more like everything else in the world scarce, you know,

that you can't, you have to make yes or no decisions, you can't,

you can't fudge on it in that way. And so, again, I'm

optimistic that it'll be helpful over time, and that people have

a healthier view of the world as a result of its ascendance.

You gave me an interesting thought. And I'm actually

curious, all your takes on this, do you think Bitcoin is going to

make the world bigger? And what I mean by that is, are people

going to think more about the opportunity cost of going

somewhere? And like, is travel actually going to become less?

Like less of a thing, because Bitcoin is the rising tide,

everything is going to get better everywhere. So you're not

going to be discontent where you are, because I need to go to

America to make money, or I need to arbitrage, you know,

making this thing somewhere else, because I can make it

somewhere else cheaper, like, like, is the world going to get

bigger again?

Definitely, there's going to be especially right away, there are

going to be some of these smaller countries that

essentially go on a Bitcoin standard, and they are going to

welcome you if you want to go there and spend Bitcoin, it's

there's going to be a lot for you to do. And it's going to be

open to you. And it will also have an effect where it will

somewhat preserve cultures, like, in in the in the middle of

the 1900s, you had basically, like the Soviet Union, you had

these giant blocks of like, essentially empires, I was

looking at the Japanese Empire in 1942. It was massive, it was

like one third of the size of Russia now. And we're going away

from that to where you're going to have sovereign individuals,

and you're going to have a little sovereign enclaves, kind

of like what, theoretically, we're seeing in El Salvador now.

Yeah, I think it'll, I think it'll become, I think what

you're alluding to JD is that will people in essence, live in

their citadels? Will they kind of just live there more? And

you're gonna have people that might move around like

Anton was saying, like in the near future type of thing. But

you know, 50 years from now, 100 years from now, are we

traveling as much? Does the world become bigger in that

sense? Like where we're just not traveling as much like I am

content because I have six kids and I have my whole family here.

We've got our wealth, we've got what we need, I don't need to go

travel. Because again, the symptom of the society, and

we're all about the same age. You saw the last 20 years, a lot

of people leaving. I mean, again, in the Midwest, you have

people what leaving because of job opportunities, money, and

they want to go travel, I want, you know, travel became so easy.

It's like, I want to go do things my parents have wealth,

like I'm gonna go travel and do stuff. I'm living in LA, living

in whatever Chicago, I'm living in New York City. And it was

like, cool, it was trendy to leave your family. And now what

do we see? We see senior centers everywhere, you know, assisted

living because no one has the money to pay for their parents,

or there are no kids really, because they're gone. And

they're too busy making money that they can't even take care

of the parents. So you're in this world where I do believe I

hope I mean, to me, like the senior housing stuff is very

sad. Like it's, I have a very different take on on that. And

it's, it's, it's not the typical take, I'm sure a lot of you

guys, a lot of big players would probably have a similar take.

But it's society is like, Oh, look at this is great. Like,

look at these facilities taken. It's like, where are the

people's family? You know, like, where are the people that love

them? Like, what is going on? And it's, it's a symptom, again,

of late stage fiat has been mentioned many times. But I do

hope that that kind of turns around. And we build these

compounds or citadels or these communities that are

decentralized, built on community, and they are local,

because that's, as we know, just governing wise, like we talked

in the beginning, governance is way easier locally, you know,

getting back to this, this standard of taking care of just

the people right around us. That's the easiest way,

obviously, humans have found to govern and work things. So I do

think it might take 50 years, 100 years, but it I think we're

going to get to a more of the world is bigger, where I'm not,

I don't have to feel like I have to travel all over, because

everyone else is doing it. I think it just naturally starts

to kind of heal again.

Yeah, I think at the same time, though, like, just given the

dynamics of how much Bitcoin is out there, and how much Bitcoin,

like how expensive Bitcoin is, like, it's gonna be harder and

harder for your average person to be able to, you know, make a

meaningful amount of Bitcoin. So I think I think that probably

the bigger the bigger challenge is gonna be well, I don't know

about bigger, I don't know how to even evaluate the size of the

challenge. Basically, I would say, like, in some ways, this,

the parable of the talents is going to be relevant to people

who are Bitcoiners at this point, because, like, you're

going to have, I mean, if things continue to, you know, to go

along the same kind of lines that they've been going, like,

if you have any kind of significant amount of Bitcoin,

like, you're going to have a staggering amount of money. And

you're going to be trying to figure out, you know, again,

like, what do I do with this? How do I store this in effective

ways? And, yeah, and like, and again, just I think thinking

about that, the sooner you start thinking about that, like, what

are the things that are important to me? Yeah, I just

think that's, that's something you ought to be doing. Because

again, like, I have people in my in my feed who are totally

rational people, you know, again, who are who are older,

who've been in, you know, live, live the world, and they're

basically saying, I'm upping my price, you know, like the odds

of Bitcoin going to a million dollars by the end of this year

just got a whole lot bigger. And so I just think like, this can

move so fast, like the speed that this thing can move, and

then the position it would put anybody who's got a meaningful

amount of Bitcoin in. Yeah, I just think it could get it could

get bonkers really quick. And yeah, and I think if that's

happening at the same time as you have so many cultures around

the world who are, you know, the currencies are failing, and

things are getting harder and harder, I think you can see.

Yeah, just it could it could get a lot worse before before it

gets be better on a large scale.

Somebody was putting a TA, you know, a TA bro was putting

something down, but the 14th is apparently when we're supposed

to get to our next, like, next all time high, not saying that

the peak, but like, when we're supposed to break the previous

one is the 14th. So seven days from now, like, I don't know, I

just have a hunch will be like 140 a week from now. And I

think this Bitcoin reserve thing took everybody by surprise, who

expected that in the afternoon yesterday?

Well, not even not even well, actually, nobody expect I did

not expect it until today, because they're having the

meeting today. And I was like, Okay, so maybe we hear

something the end of the day today, or maybe we hear

something on Monday. And candidly, I think the people,

you know, and if you're watching this, you know, like, I know, a

significant amount of Bitcoin is any, like any portion and like,

you don't have to have like bitcoins, or you don't have like

a whole have a whole corner, like a significant amount of

Bitcoin is gonna be any Bitcoin. And at certain points in time,

and I think the thing that's really interesting that I, you

know, haven't really thought about, but I think it was David

Bailey, who actually posted this. But there is not enough

Bitcoin now for every millionaire in the United States

to own one. And so the the thing to think about right now is the

people who are going to have the most regret when it comes to

Bitcoin ownership are not the poor, it's the rich.

Well, most specifically, it's it's the boomers who have houses

that they need to all sell now because they need to pay for

their retirement because they don't have kids.

It's gonna be really interesting to actually to see this transfer

of wealth and actually see like, the countries I'm actually the

most excited for when it comes to being on a Bitcoin standard

Bitcoin in general, like Italy. You know, like I we have family

in Italy and America. Well, America, too. But But I think we

have the quintillion effect. So I think, you know, we're probably

better off than most. And if you're not familiar with that,

especially we are the money printer, and we're the closest

there's we benefit the most. Sorry, everybody else that we're

showing over we are those cock bucks. We also get screwed the

most because the money printer destroys the culture, which is

why we have such destroyed culture. Speaking of Italy,

again, is some of these things can be preserved. And I think

the other thing is, though, not only they're gonna be preserved

is it's actually going to potentially, you know, if this

can come, I hope we get to a million by Christmas, like I

posted earlier this week, we're gonna get to a million by

Christmas. I don't know if we are, but I really, really want

us to because I do believe the issue we have is, you know, the

money printers screwed things up so much. And these people you

can't be, you know, in Italy, like the employment rate for

people under the age of like 35 is like 20 20%, something like

that. It's nuts. And it's like, you know, we have a family

member here. And she's been telling us she's like, my

generation has no hope. And so they have no dreams and no

desire, and they don't do anything. And so it's like,

when we can re instantiate hopes and dreams and balance to some

of these things by pouring kerosene, like I think Bitcoin

is economic kerosene in a good way, it's going to wipe

everything away, and it's going to supercharge everything all at

the same time. I think it's going to be really, really

interesting to see what happens. I think the global South is

going to is going to come roaring back in the neck. Like

I think the 20 the 2030s and the 2040s are going to be like

Latam, Africa, you know, Southeast Asia and India, like

it's going to be wild seeing those those cultures develop on

a Bitcoin standard.

I think that yeah, I just think we're good. I was just gonna

say I liked the answer so far. I've just been all of the above.

Yeah, I just think it's like, it's kind of like, yeah, it's

kind of it's like the, you look at the mountain from the front

of it, you're like, Oh, look, it's just straight up. And then

you look at it from the side. And it's like, actually, it's

up and down and up and down, but it gradually goes up. Because

like, I just look at, I mean, you look at there's so many

things that the attention economy, you know, or like, just

the things like OnlyFans, like, there's this chick, I can't

remember her name, Lily something like she's going to

like nursing homes. Yeah, she's like going to nursing homes

down, like having sex with like old men in the nursing homes and

like filming it and then getting like getting making money off

of this. So like, I'm just thinking like, that's, that's

one, that's an American person who is, you know, relative

comfort. And obviously, like, wealth brings extravagance and

all this kind of stuff. But I just think like, yeah, sure,

sure. You're right. So but like, you've got, you've got, but

you've got, you've got this, what is it gonna do? If people

realize how worthless their dollars are? Like, what are

that? What? What lengths are they going to be willing to go

to, to make Bitcoin? Like that? I don't know. I could just see

this getting really, really bad again. Like, you look in that

you look at the Roman Empire, like, how bad did it get? They

literally threw Christians in a in a ring with lions, you know,

it'd like to, I mean, this is just the cultural degradation

that happened. So like, I don't know, like, I'm hopeful over the

long term. But just in the if you told me in the next 10 to 15

years that we had, you know, actual Hunger Games, like TV

shows where it was all actually happening, like, I could totally

believe it. Like, it wouldn't surprise me.

I disagree. 100%

I hope so. I hope so. Again, we've been following the path of

Rome for, you know, pretty, pretty closely. So I'm just

sure you and I are our kindred spirits here at Bondor is the

hard disagree. There's none of that's gonna happen. Like, the

one of the and Jay, you and I have talked about this. We

bought, we definitely bought heads on this. I think it's, I

think it's a healthy budding heads.

It's great. Every, every meetup, people are like, positivity.

Talk to that guy. You want negativity? Go over there.

I really don't see that. Because we have Bitcoin that no one

control. No one can control. This is completely unlike any

other historical paradigm. On top of that, it takes a

monumental amount of effort just to understand what you have. And

that that applies for both both camps, right? The people who

want to destroy the world versus the people who want to rebuild

want to destroy the world versus the people who want to rebuild

the world better. I'm not the build back. So how does this

play out practically? Well, practically, um, anybody who's

denominated in Bitcoin has a firewall against inflation,

which means that their entire lives, like the world can be

crumbling around them because of crazy hyperinflation, etc. But

they're, they're still fine. Like they're 100% able to still

buy groceries, they're 100% able to like their families insulated

from the insanity at a monetary level, right? Now, of course,

there's societal issues or whatever. But like, think about

think about what a firewall is. It's it's literally a wall of

fire that is that you cannot cross this, you cannot cross

this, this chasm. And everybody who's protected by a firewall,

you guys, you guys are good. Anybody can get the firewall

themselves, right? So there's it's the I shared this article

again, it's it's a old Satoshi Nakamoto Institute article,

Nakamoto Institute article. But it's the Bitcoin's shroud of

allure and subtlety, where you are. You're basically the game

theory says, you're better off just adopting Bitcoin, then you

are fighting it or trying to attack people or doing any of

this stuff, because you like you can have the firewall, like, why

would you just like, try and fight the firewall, when you can

just have it? Right? We just trade your trade your wealth

Bitcoin, you're good to go. You don't have to suffer inflation

anymore. So that's just the inflation piece of the puzzle.

There's all sorts of other pieces of the puzzle, like with

the time preferences. And with the just the way that it stops

the absurd erosion of culture, like it really does. Like this

is not like we're talking about something, you know, Jordan, and

you know, I tend to agree, like the there's nothing new under

the sun. But like, and of course, this isn't anything new.

Like this is things like this have happened in history, but

it's always been small. This is this is the whole, this is the

whole world. And it's all happening at once. Sure. The the

the end, like the end dynamic of like, Bitcoin going to a million

this year, I really just don't see it. Like, yeah, if it does

do that, well, that's not necessarily going to be a

function of Bitcoin's value increasing, because it's going

to take way longer than a year for people to even understand

that the value has increased, right? So what, if Bitcoin goes

to a million in a year, what that says is, the US dollar has

just hyper inflated, and there's no other, like, the amount of

Bitcoin ecosystem stuff, all of that has only built up, or, or

what it will say, or what it will say, it'll, because again,

the reality is, like, there's information asymmetry. So you

had the world radically changed in 1913, with the creation of

the Federal Reserve, a small group of people, very small

group of people made a decision that they benefited from

tremendously to the detriment of everybody else. And so like, I

could totally see because again, if you have the governmental

officials who are controlling the money printers in all these

countries, who basically see the writing on the wall, none of

their people do or very small, very few of their people do, but

they go, wait, right now, the jig, the game is up, we can

print money right now to buy Bitcoin, and then they all start

or like four or five of them start doing that. Like you could

you could see, I mean, it could get crazy really quickly. And so

again, I don't think it requires tons of people, it only requires

a very small group of people who are the ones who most know that

this whole system is a Ponzi scheme, like fiat currencies or

Ponzi schemes. So yeah, I just think and again, I'm not

talking I'm not talking in terms of people, I just think the

reality is, even in the United States, the number of people who

are going to be able to accumulate through through their

savings or selling things that they have to accumulate a good

amount of Bitcoin is going to be still relatively small. And and

as it sets in that, again, it's in some ways, it's going to be a

path to nowhere to try to accumulate a large amount of

Bitcoin. Like what lengths are people going to be willing to go

to in their extreme, you know, like hopelessness or something

or like the stream like jadedness to try to accumulate

more? Is it going to be, you know, are we going to see, you

know, more extreme examples in this lily girl, you're going to

see again, things like, I don't even want to put things out

there. But I just think like, yeah, I think we're just not

prepared for because again, will that be the smart thing to do?

Well, no, on a long enough time horizon, of course not. But

people are not smart. Like people are not good. They make

stupid decisions, short sighted decisions all the time. And I

don't think that Bitcoin is going to, it's going to change

it at a societal level over time. But there's still going to

be hundreds of 1000s of individual people who are we're

going to be able to point to as saying those are ridiculous

decisions that have affected a lot of people in poor ways.

For me, that that really comes down to just the market

dynamics, the bubble dynamics, and you know, hysterical popular

delusions of the madness of crowds kind of like mentality.

But you know, what's the end result of that? Well, the end

result of that is everyone sells all their homes, buys Bitcoin,

and then nobody has, there's no more buyers anymore, the market

crashes. And it's just, it's no different than any of the

bubbles we've already seen. Time and time again in Bitcoin, just

it's like, you know, all the all the leverage for all the things

and just people will go crazy at the market top. Yeah, market

tops, they go crazy. And then it's just, yeah, it crashes. And

everyone's like, Wait a second, what was I thinking? And yeah,

they like,

I guess what I'm saying is, though, is like, again, I think

the housing market, like the housing market market needs to

crash, like it's unhealthy that it's at a level. But like, if

that's caused by Bitcoin, people are going to be like, this is

the worst thing ever. Bitcoin is the worst thing ever. And again,

it's because because of how many people are going to be adversely

affected by it, even though it was doomed to fail anyhow. And

even if Bitcoin didn't exist, it was going to crash. Anyhow, I

think you're still going to have people and especially you know,

you have the media and whatever, there's incentive for people to

tell the media to default Bitcoin and to do all these

things. Again, it doesn't mean it's actually true.

But this is why you got to move out of Florida and move to Los

Angeles where the real estate is far more solid.

Welcome to you.

This gives us lots to talk about on future episodes. I love the

idea of talking about what people will be willing to do

when there's crazy scarcity in Bitcoin. But we should probably

wrap it up. So I just want to thank Brandon underscore

Gentile. Jam Bush writes, Jordan, thanks for coming on

today. Bond or JD. And yeah, that's it better by Bitcoin.

Check us out on YouTube because we just created a YouTube

channel. It's better by BY Bitcoin. And we'll see you on

the next one.

Thanks, boys.