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Hey Padel enthusiasts welcome to Padel Smash Academy, I am Cesc and I am here with Julian and we're all about Padel! Whether you're new to the sport or an experienced player, you've come to the right place. Our goal is to provide you with the best tips & tricks, news, and weekly lessons to help you improve your game and take your Padel to the next level. So grab your Padel Racket and let's get started with all things Padel on Padel Smash Academy.
Today we have a special guest from Play
by Point, uh, uh, and Andreas Robella.
Welcome Andres.
Welcome to Paddle Smash Academy.
Oh, and we are old things Paddle.
So I'm the founder and
c e o of Play by point.
Um, I'll say the introduction we always
say for my demo calls per se, but
we're, we're an all in one solution
for racket sports clubs, right.
And we provide a management software.
For club owners providing all the
tools they need to be successful.
Now, how did you get into that?
What, what was the
inspiration to start this?
Did you, did you start with
paddle or did you start with a
different sport prior to this?
Eh, we, the ins, let me start with
the inspiration and then I'll tell you
the journey through all the sports.
Sure.
The, the inspiration was pretty simple.
I, I say I started this
because I was naive.
I didn't know what I was getting
myself into, but initially I, you know,
I had played tennis my whole life.
Uh, tennis had been a, a big part of my
life in general terms from friendships
I made from being physically active.
Um, and when I moved to Miami
in 2009, give or take, um, I
couldn't find the court, right?
So I would go meet up with a
friend, let's go to the court.
We would show up, and
then I'd have to wait.
It's, everything was first come,
first serve and not have to
wait two hours to get a court.
I'm like, you know what?
I'm not playing tennis anymore.
I'm gonna go run, I'm gonna go to the gym.
And I stopped playing tennis for a
while and then, In 2014, I, you know,
I had, my previous experience had been
in finance, operations, technology,
and I said, you know, it's crazy.
It's 2014 in this year, and I can't
even book a court online easily.
Right.
I can pay for my parking.
And that time Uber was coming up.
Mm-hmm.
I could, you know, I
could order, uh, a car.
And then that began the, the journey
per se, kind of saying, look, how
can I book my tennis court easily?
Wow.
That, that's incredible.
Now, how long ago was that?
And we were founded in 2016.
So the initial kind of spark in that
case was, um, you know, we were trying
to find an easy way to, to build
the online booking system, right?
And then I said, you know, before I
go out and build everything, let me
get my first client first, right?
Let me go find.
You know, my first time before I go
out and do this whole investment, and
I, you know, we, I lived in Miami and
I approached the city of Coral Gables.
Right.
And I went to Salvador and Biltmore
Park for you guys that know it's, you
know, I think they're 12 Clay quarts.
Then Biltmore is is a
big facility as well.
And when I got there, you wouldn't imagine
how they were running the facility.
They had a big paper sheet.
Right.
And I always tell this
story at 7:00 AM Wow.
Everyone would call, they wouldn't answer.
All the members would leave a voice
note and then from 10 or from 9:00
AM to 11:00 AM the attendant would
listen to all the voicemails.
Look at the timestamp and write the
reservations on a piece of paper.
Well, I think Real Paddle still does
that, so you may wanna give them a call.
Okay.
So, but, uh, wow, that's incredible.
Now, uh, I I, so this is
a SaaS company, right?
Yeah.
Subscription based company.
Um, and I, I own, own IT as
well in the home care industry.
And I do understand the whole process.
So how long did it take you to,
to pretty much create this logic?
Uh, and then at the end of the
day, how did you get it into
beta and have people use it.
Yeah.
And see that, Hey, look, this works.
Yeah.
And then, then obviously the
next part is, you know, uh,
uh, having other clubs use it.
Yeah.
And was there any
competitors at that time?
Yeah.
So when, when we started out,
unfortunately, or not fortunate or
unfortunately, I did little research
as to what the competitors are.
I just knew that wherever I
went, there wasn't a system.
So I'm like, oh my God, there, you know.
There, someone has to do it.
Um, we, when, and I said, and I started
before that, I was naive because when
I started I thought, you know, with
our mvp, we built the great system.
And then I said, look, it's simple.
It's just booking courts, right?
Managing a sports facility,
a paddle club, tennis club.
It's easy right from the outside.
And then I go into my first
client and I start learning.
The why, right?
And I go back to that story, right?
Why there wasn't a great system out there.
Um, and it's because all these clubs,
bookings is a portion of it, but you
have academies, you have lessons, you
have pro shop, you have, you know,
lesson packages, you, and there's a
whole sort of other items that need
to interact with the system, right?
So that became, and that we learned over.
Three to four years.
Right?
So when I started, we, we did
a booking system and I quickly
realized, and we wanted to build
a marketplace model, right?
And, and we said, you know,
if you can't have all these
courts, then people could book.
And then we said, you know what, what's
missing in the market is really a racket,
sports management software, right?
Where the court sheet, the point of sale.
And the whole booking process is
integrated in one solution cuz a lot
of these clubs we're using a golf
software, uh uh, you know, a country
club management software, a spa software.
And then for, and if you know, racket
sports we're very particular, right?
That we want people to
book at a certain time.
We want, and there's all these
rules that we start learning.
So we started, instead of growing
extremely fast, I said, you know what?
First thing, and one of the
biggest lessons I learned in my
career was build a great product.
People won't come.
Right.
So that's not true, but that's so true.
But then you, you know,
you can work on getting.
The first client Sure.
Learn honing it.
Sure.
And then, you know, we're a
bit, I I, I remember when,
when did we meet at Ocean Club?
It was probably what, 2015 or 2016?
Remember that meeting over there that
you were introducing the product?
Yep.
And I thought, I mean, back then
we were using, uh, club essentials.
Club essentials, and, and like you said,
uh, with, there were so many glitches in
the system that, and you were so limited
to what you can do besides preservations.
There was nothing else.
And like you said, now you
became an expert on it.
All about the tennis,
the, the, the lessons.
The, the packages.
Yeah.
The products.
You know, the tournaments.
Yeah.
The Ron Robbins and all those things.
Yeah.
How you keep a, you know, be
accountable to, and I think.
Um, in the past few years, me,
as, as manager and, and user and,
and backend and front end user,
you have improved tremendously.
Yeah.
And I really love the product.
I, I mean, I use it daily.
Awesome.
Both ways as me making reservations
and charging people Yeah.
On the backend.
And I think it's, it's, it
has come a long, long way.
So I want to go back a little bit.
When you first got this into beta
and your, who was your first.
Client.
Who was your first client?
Uh, first client was
Biltmore Dennis Center.
Wow.
Robert Gomez.
Robert.
And so how did, how did that go?
I mean, was it like a trial error?
Was it, like he said, there's a lot
of, uh, you know, issues, changes, you
know, adjustments that you had to make.
So in that, in 20, in our, we
launched officially 2017 January,
but in 2016, I spent, one of the
backstory is I spent six, I spent
eight months going every week.
To the commissioner's
offices in Coral Gables.
Yeah.
Trying to convince them to give
me a meeting with the park and rec
department telling them about that.
So that was the back.
Cause in those days, and it's not
too, too long ago, I was trying
to sell them the idea of having
technology to manage their bookings.
Right, right.
Just instead of doing pen and
paper, I was saying, Hey guys,
why don't use a software?
To do it.
I was just trying to convince him on that.
That was better.
Yeah.
That, that's what we were,
we were at that time.
That's beautiful, man.
Man.
And, and after that, who
was the next club after?
So we started at, at Biltmore and then,
you know, we built the MVP and then
suddenly we're launching the first week.
What do you mean by v mvp?
Like the mi we call it the
minimum viable product.
Right.
It's like the, the A beta per se.
It's like we're not gonna
go out, we're gonna learn.
So we launched it.
We took all the feedback of what
their process was, and we set it up,
and then we launched the first day
and then suddenly, oh, you know what,
but we need 15 minute increments.
Oh, I thought it was only ours.
And then, oh, but then we need
to be able to block courts.
Yeah.
Multiple courts.
Yeah.
Recurring, so, so I'm assuming you
didn't consult with, uh, managers
at tennis clubs to try to design
this, or you did and No, no.
Did, so we did on the first phase,
but then we started learning.
Gotcha, gotcha.
Yeah.
And then, you know, and then from there
we got Noal Park was our second club.
Right.
And then we started learning the, the,
you know, our stroke of luck Was that our
first partners, or I call 'em partners.
Yeah.
They were great operators.
Right.
In the sense that we're very diligent.
They had a clean operation, so then we
took their best practices, took out the
bad ones and implemented it into software.
And then all this journey has
taken us, you know, four years.
Right.
And honing and honing it through on that.
Yeah.
Now you talked about different features.
So what features does, uh,
uh, play by point, uh, have?
So I'll, so our, I won't talk
about, I'll talk about the features,
but I'll talk about our focus.
Right.
Okay.
Which is more important.
Um, Our main focus is, what I say in,
in all my pitches is, look, the software
shouldn't define your business model.
It's the other way around.
So the approach we take with all our
clients is what we call a and I go like
this, a customized approach, right?
Meaning that I go to the clients and tell
'em, look, every, and something I learned
early on is that every club is different.
And I always go back to that, even
though they seem the same, every
ownership group is different.
Every director has a different vision
of what they want the club to be.
So in what we said, instead of being
everything for everyone, we focused
on creating a system that's extremely
customizable and flexible to your needs.
Wow.
And if we don't have it,
We'll build it for it.
No, and and that's so true.
I mean, cause every club has
different rules and regulations.
Mm-hmm.
Especially on the bookings and there
are a lot of time and all class.
Yeah.
So, so when you say if, if, uh,
every club is different and you'll,
you'll make those, those logics or
those changes, who pays for that?
Is that, and that's included.
So we, we keep it simple.
So then I reduce the barriers cuz what,
the way I think of, or I, I, I think,
and I thought about it then is look.
I'm outsourcing my r and d.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
I'm, I'm, these are the experts.
Yeah.
We're good at technology, but the experts
on the ground are all the club owners.
Right.
And then, you know, I was lucky, but
I don't know if, if how it happened,
but every new fe and the funny
thing is that it worked that way.
I said, okay, at the beginning
we're gonna do that feature.
And then I went to the next
client and I told, you know what?
And we have this feature.
Oh, amazing.
Boom.
And they would use it.
And then the other client, oh,
but you know, we do things,
you know this and this way.
Right?
We have this rule.
Let me set it up.
And then the next client, oh,
I'll take advantage of it.
Wow.
So we started kind of, I wanna say,
what's the, what's the right word?
Crowdfunding or crowdsourcing.
Yeah.
All the different rules
that exist in the wow.
In the ecosystem.
And then what it, what it comes today is,
when I say this to, to new clients, is.
You know, I'll customize it for you today.
I would say we're 95% there.
There's still a couple edge cases,
but if I have a new client and that
makes them come our way, we'll do that.
Wow.
We'll do that to 'em.
So that, that's tough.
I mean, it's incredible that you do that.
Yeah.
And that that's, you know, and
making it work for you, you know.
Uh, so lemme ask a question.
How many clubs are there in, in Florida?
You guys just focused on Florida
or just all through the nation?
No, no.
So we're nationwide.
We got clubs across.
All 50 states.
Wow.
Um, Canada.
So how many clubs are there
that you target in your market?
We're targeting all pickleball
clubs, all tennis clubs.
All right.
So is that a couple thousand?
Is that a couple thousand
in the clubs in general?
So look, they say there is, and, and
correct me, you can put a disclaimer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If I'm wrong, but supposedly
there's 15,000 wow facilities
in the United States.
Wow.
Right.
Um, a large portion of
those are Park and Recs.
Okay.
We do work with Park and Recs.
Um, the other portion are country clubs.
High school colleges, um, clubs
that actually need a booking system
that's specific to their need.
Yeah.
You know, I think the addressable market's
unclear, but I think it's with the new
verticals that you're seeing with Padell.
Yeah.
And with pickleball, I think
that number's gonna grow.
So what market share do you have
in that and what's your goal?
Yeah, so in, in tennis and
pickleball very low, how we got
into paddle was a stroke of luck.
Fork.
So I, I go back to that is,
um, I don't know who I met.
I think we started working with Kanye.
Stan.
Yeah, Kanye's was the first
one with, with Kanye's.
Yeah.
And they introduced me.
So Kanye's, our first
client was Wynwood on panel.
Yes.
But I got to know about Wynwood,
cuz I got Kanye's as a client and
we're healthy and with all their
academies, like, and there's a.
A lot of Spaniards working in, in
Kanye's, obviously, and like, oh,
you should check out Windwood Paddle.
Yeah.
Right.
And we go in there and I met, you know,
and I just knocked on the door and I,
and I asked them, you know, what they
were gonna use and, and I told Nate,
forget about where you're looking at use.
Use my software for free, I'm
gonna customize it for free.
Wow.
Um, and I'm going to help you guys
out cuz this is what we do, right?
Yeah.
At that point we already had about more
clubs and we are doing that operation
and that's how we got in into Paddle.
And then in the paddle market in
the us um, you know, I think we
have majority of the share of clubs.
Obviously it's still small.
Yep.
Yeah, right.
As you guys know, it's still a small
market, but our goal is to own the US.
You know, paddle mark and, and not to own.
Right.
At the end of the day, my focus is not
to, you know, to become the biggest,
and that at the end what our mission is.
We want to help club owners.
Right?
That's what it, what it becomes
to, these are entrepreneurs, these
are professionals that are putting
a lot of money on the table Yeah.
To make their club successful
and we're just a part.
Of that.
And, and I would hate for them
to not use a system that helps
them on the operation side.
Yeah.
And that's kind of where we focus on.
I mean, honestly, I mean, we use, and
I've been using, you know, play by
point, formerly known as Play by Chord.
Yep.
Uh, for quite a few years.
And, and honestly, that's, Seven
days a week, 20 plus hours a day that
that software is moving in and out.
It's, it's constantly evolving
and changing and, and,
and growing and all that.
And, and I use it for us, it's our Bible.
Yeah.
You know, make sure that
everybody gets paid accordingly.
Yeah.
Make sure that all the
bookings are correctly.
Make sure that all the
everything's paid and charge.
Uh, and I love also your part where,
Uh, you have your tenant shop there.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it's sort of like now works.
It used to be like that.
It wasn't like that.
I mean, you added the,
the POS system there.
Yeah.
Which I think it was a great add-on to it.
Yep.
So it's just a, it's a
one stop shop Correct.
For pretty much everything
that you need to run a club.
Correct.
A rocket club.
Correct.
I think that was fantastic.
So let, let's go to that.
What are the main features that,
that, um, uh, play by point offers?
So I'll, I'll put the
differentiators, right?
Cause again, when software.
And if, and the mistake that some
people that are not in the industry.
So what happens is it's very different
when I talk to experience, you know,
paddle professionals, racket sports
directors versus new club owners.
And I try to highlight them that,
yeah, every, you know, it's like
every car drives the same, right?
Right.
It's gonna take you from point A
to, but it's, it's the 80 20 rule.
Right?
It's the 20% of those details.
Yeah.
That really make a difference.
Of course.
Yeah.
Right.
And what makes a difference
with play by point is one on the
player's side, super easy to use.
Right.
We keep it simple.
Um, you know, we started in Florida
with all the retirement community.
I like to say my.
95 year old RAM can use it and
obviously young guys can use it,
but most importantly, the player
side is important on the admin side.
And my claim when I, whenever we we talk
is I can train your staff in 10 to 15
minutes and if not, you can text me.
You can text our team.
And we give 24 7 support to make
sure you're on the right path.
So, well, I, I might say something,
it is true, director of Rocket me
bugging you on a Sunday morning or
Sunday afternoon when something goes
wrong, man, and you always responding.
Yeah.
So I truly appreciate that
part, you know what I mean?
It, it's truly, and let me ask one thing.
So I think you didn't
answer the questions.
Yeah.
So, so it's not only the reservations,
so you have the POS system Correct.
And, and what else?
Correct.
So to answer your question, We provide
everything you need to operate your
racket club or your paddle club right
from a court sheet that's integrated
with your point of sale solution.
And you can manage your pro bookings,
your charges, your reservation bookings.
The system is flexible, whether if
you want one player to pay for the
whole booking, you want individual
people to play for the booking.
Um, we have a pro shop item where
you can manage your inventory.
You can post that now we're launching
it on the app, or you can buy your.
Your, your items, you can customize all
the rules, um, your reporting tools.
That's very important.
Yeah.
So there's tons of features, but at the
end I try to keep it high level because
if, if I sit down, we can spend an hour
and I can tell you all the features.
Okay.
Let me ask you a question.
There's a play by point
and there's play by court.
Play by court was a previous
name, formally, formally named.
So we, I think I have your, your both.
Abso got, yeah, no, no.
It became much maybe a year ago or so.
Yeah, about a year ago.
And so how did that happen?
Is there reason?
So we, it was a rebranding, right?
Okay.
That we did.
It was, it was a learning experience
because we transitioned from being a court
booking system to being a point of sale.
Right.
And being an integrated point of sale.
Okay.
So that, that was my next question.
Um, okay.
How much is the subscription for a club?
So for the, we have, depending on
the plans you want Uhhuh Right, and
I'll highlight 24 7 customer support.
Um, we have month to month, right?
So we don't lock in our customers.
If you hate us, you can leave smart.
Um, our starting plan starts at a
hundred dollars a month or $99 a month.
And then depending on the features
you want, You can scale up with us to
haha, to how high, what's the maximum?
Getting all the features.
It can be up to, you know, from
500 to 700 to even a thousand.
And so do you have any other verticals?
There are revenue, like, uh, you
know, the like the integrated
payments and the processing.
Do you share revenues with a processing
company and what company do you guys use?
Yep.
Right question.
So we work with a company
called Car Connect.
They're owned by Pfizer.
Um, so we partner with them
to do all the processing.
But our whole vision on, on that
portion is, All the cost benefits that
we could do in terms of monetizing
that we pass on to our customers.
How do you do that?
So what we do is, cuz we have some pricing
leverage with the processor and we try
to get the best rates for customers.
So we lower down and share lower down
with your, with their quarter, correct.
Right.
For that they can get better
rates in that case, right?
Correct.
Right.
Now what other verticals, uh,
revenue does, uh, play by point?
So that's, uh, those two.
That's a great question and
kind of the main differentiator.
And I go back to my initial.
That we work for the club owner.
Right.
So what does that mean?
My only revenue line item
that is SaaS subscription.
Okay.
In that case, we do it on purpose cuz
we think that, and we pivoted from
being kind of a marketplace model,
which is what Platonic is doing and
some other folks want to go into
which you're tackling the players.
And what we advocate in the
industry is everyone knows that
the next goldmine is the data.
Right?
Yeah.
And I think all and, and
we think it's unfair.
For us to come in here and be
kind of spoken mirrors, right?
Just go in here.
I go into the club and then suddenly
all the players, obviously they need
to go through the booking system.
Mm-hmm.
And then we try to monetize that.
So the moment we do that,
we are, our incentives are
at odds with the club owner.
And, and, and that's why we
say it's important with us.
Your data is your data from
the club's perspective.
You own your data.
And what play by point is doing is we're
gonna build the tools and the services.
So that you can monetize that.
So we're in our next phase of growth.
Um, we're building, you know, based on
what the club wants, I wanna launch a
subscription product for my members.
Yes, I want to add, I wanna run the
leagues right instead of the leagues
that are happening outside of the clubs.
Right.
And you have other platforms
that we won't name.
They're taking all that revenue.
Right.
And I think, at least where
I stand, I think the clubs
should be taking that benefit.
We have clubs in up north in League fees.
They make 40, $50,000
in league registration.
And that money you're giving away.
So is that the next feature you
guys are gonna, uh, integrate in?
Correct.
But we are.
Not gonna do the leagues.
We're gonna build the tools.
So they can do the leagues.
So they can manage the leagues.
Exactly.
And, and then the club decides.
So if you have a network of clubs, we're
not gonna be king makers or anything.
If the club can get other clubs to
participate, we want that revenue
share to happen at the club level.
Me now as a, as a club manager,
you know, um, and, and user too.
And I think I asked before about
this feature that I've been using
it four years, uh, using a a
different type of platform, which
is a text messaging platform.
Yeah.
And I, I think we discussed this.
Yeah.
It would be great for, for you guys
to have an, an option where we can.
Text message.
Yeah.
What happens to us?
Courts are wet.
Yeah.
We can't play, you know, we have
20 people coming to the club Yeah.
From different parts of
the, you know, the county.
So for us to send a quick text
messages, courts are unplayable.
Yeah.
Don't come to the club.
Yeah.
Instead of, because right now we have,
sometimes we have to call 'em personally.
Yeah.
Is that a feature that
you might be looking into?
Adding to the service
or anything like that?
So I'm gonna take, I'm gonna
take you a step back Yes.
To where that feature is
coming in, in the roadmap.
Okay.
Our first goal was digitizing
the industry, right?
Taking them from pen and paper
into a digitized court sheet.
Then it was building kind of the picks
and shovels or the operating tools to
make sure they could run effi efficiently.
And then now what we're focusing on
more, cuz we've already covered all
that ground, is marketing tools.
Yes.
Communication tools.
Yeah, retargeting tools.
So what's happening is that before
the industry was not sophisticated No.
In terms of.
If Andres came in, he made a reserv,
he made a booking, and let's say it
was his first time coming in the club,
we should have an alert system that,
Hey Julian, call Andres his first.
Offer him a lesson, right?
Or Andres came in, had a clinic,
we should be upselling them.
So our next phase is getting all that
information and making it actionable.
So that goes along.
We just launched a chat feature
as well, so you can see now.
Yeah, so that is the transition
cuz remember we need to
do everything at scale.
And make sure it works fine.
So that's been part of our Yeah.
Our success as well, that when
we do things, we try to do 'em.
Right.
Right.
Obviously there's hiccups, but these
features, not that they take time, but we
wanna make sure they're done correctly.
Let, let me ask you, let me play
a little bit of devil itself okay.
Here.
Mm-hmm.
Which I love that you added
maybe a few months back.
The The chat.
Chat.
Mm-hmm.
What happens to our chat is that
we have 3000 in red messages.
Yep.
So it will be interesting to maybe
organize it in a way where, let's
say, urgent or you have options, uh,
lessons or, or something like that.
They can be responded right away.
Someone like nonsense asking, well, there
was no toilet paper in the bathroom.
Yeah.
You know, so sorry, you know, no soap
in the bathroom or things like that.
But certain important messages,
uh, where I lost my wallet.
Yeah.
Whatever, you know, where
they jump out of the Yeah.
That box will be a, a,
a good idea to have.
Yeah.
And, and the other one, it's actually
happened this morning to me after a lesson
brand new guy never played paddle before.
Uh, he wanted to sign up for the,
for the, for the, for the clinics
I mentioned about the clinics.
Something when somebody signs up
for the first time, upselling the
clinics or the latest clinics Exactly.
Or, or, um, sale that the club
is having or something like that.
I think that will be a
great feature to have it.
And I know you're thinking about
it and I know that yeah, the IT
logistics, it's quite a headache.
But I think those are the
things that I see from my end.
Of course.
Is it Julian?
The, the, the software designer here?
No.
No, but that's, so actually that's
how we, but that's a lot of good,
uh, uh, feedback that you, that's
how we develop our feature.
So we start.
And we do a little preview.
Cause we learned before that we, you
know, when I, when we started, I thought,
you know, you think you know everything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then you go out, you launch it and
then everything you assume was wrong.
So now what we do is we take out a, not
a preview, but we go in steps, right?
Yeah.
Perfect.
We launch the chat.
Hey, we should have a priority
system within the chat.
Yeah.
Organize them.
Yeah.
Right.
So then we start, Incrementally,
um, innovating those features
personally on that case.
Yeah.
And then that obvi, it takes
a little bit more time in, in
some respects, but we need it.
That's why we and our customer support
and our product is tied together.
Yeah.
And that's why it's important
for me and for my team to
always be close to the customer.
And I think that happens with a
lot of other, another question now
that you made me think about it.
I'm sorry to bug you, blah, blah, but the
message system, which I think is great.
Is it included on the backend,
on on the mobile app for the
manager, whoever has access to it.
We responded to those message, or you have
to be only in the, in the main computer.
No, I'll show you now.
We just launched that.
Oh, you did?
Yeah.
Good.
So we, it's not live yet, but
I think it is live action.
Right.
So now you have your support and your
reservations when you're an admin.
Right.
Okay.
So then here, all the reservation chats,
and then now, because if you're an admin,
You get all the support chats great.
Right.
So again, those are features that
we've worked with key partners.
Right.
So that's why when we look for new
clubs, um, not part of the criteria,
but we really enjoy working with
club owners that are very involved.
Yeah.
Right.
And that they're willing to enhance
our experience cuz we're invested in
them and then they're invested in us
and then, We collaborate, and then
that's how we move the industry forward.
That helps us get the next client
and, and that just makes us better.
Another question that maybe we can,
in this one, we can work together.
One of the issues that we have with
the app is that, uh, the rating system.
Yep.
I'll tell you our plans there,
we, we discuss about that too.
It's that now on the app, everybody e each
person puts their own personal rating.
Yeah.
And usually it's 10 times
higher than what it is.
It's like what Julian does.
Yeah.
That's what.
That's okay.
I, I see players, they are
actual beginners under rating
themselves at 4.0 or 5.0.
I think we'll be a good idea to.
Maybe have a link where these
are the ratings, these are the
things that you need to do for
each, for you to rate yourself.
Yep.
Or have videos where they can, you have
to be able to do this, this, and that.
Yeah.
For you to be 3.0 or 4.0.
Yeah.
5.0 whatever.
I, I think that's been the biggest.
From the agree, the e every club
or even every, any, you know, uh,
subscription based company, uh, has, yeah.
I mean, it's very difficult.
Yeah.
And it also depends on the club, right?
Mm-hmm.
The club has the different levels
versus let's say the, the, the state
or the, the, the country, right?
Yeah.
Um, and then like he said,
everybody thinks they're better
than what they really are.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And until they play, uh,
3.0 that it beats 'em.
And you, you're at six.
Yep.
Yep.
That's true.
So, uh, is that something you guys
are gonna, uh, you know, introduce
in the future, or is that like a.
A really difficult, um, thing to
put together because at the end of
the day, who is judging these people
and what are they judging them based
on the club all over the place?
How can get that
information to the person?
That has been one of the trickiest
and most difficult things I
don't think anybody has been
really able to, to accomplish.
Yep.
Correct me, Elise.
No, no.
That's correct.
So the issue with paddle
has been the rating.
There wasn't a rating system.
Right.
So we had to use the N T R P.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
And that's what we're stuck
with for a very long time.
And in.
Tennis and in pickleball, you've
already had a lot of efforts and
investments into developing a rating
system that is universal, right?
So you have U T R in tennis, you have
World Tennis number in pickleball, you
have Duper, which has done very well.
And then in in Paddle you're starting
what we are embracing, right?
And the way we see our platform, and I
go back, we work for the club, right?
And we want.
We're creating an open system so that
if these are, if club a, look, we wanna
use X rating system, but we need these
rating systems to come to market and
to either educate the, the players.
And you've seen, you know, one company
that we're talking to and working
and exploring, uh, we're gonna be
working with is Red Paddle, right?
So they're building an algorithm,
they're doing the tournaments,
they're doing leagues.
And I think those sort of investments and
innovations, the booking system is not.
The be all, end all per se, on that case.
But we should allow club owners Yeah.
To say us at Wynwood, you know, we
like Red Paddle, we like X rating.
So all our members are gonna,
you know, that's the rating
system that's gonna be visible.
Yeah.
So have, have you seen the
rating system at Red Paddle?
Yeah, we seen.
And what do you think about?
About, no, I think it's a, you know,
I, I think they're doing a great job.
I think it's a great start point.
You think that's gonna be the standard or.
I don't, I don't predict the future.
No.
But I think Red Paddle
sign up with the U S P.
Mm-hmm.
So United States Paddle Association.
So they're gonna be their, you know,
uh, personalized rating system for them.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
One of the things that we did, and I
think, uh, we talk about this, is we
stop having an open source rating system
instead of everybody rating themselves.
Now we do the rating.
Yep.
So now it's bringing everyone down.
Every day I'm bringing ratings
down and things like that.
For them to make some, you
better not touch my rating.
Yeah.
So something, something we did that I
tried to, that is second an opinion.
Yeah.
Something we did that we
have the ability to do.
Yeah.
And we launched this a couple months
ago, but the club didn't want to
do it, is we have now called a
verified rating that that works
now and then And how does it work?
So basically the pro, only
the club managers or the club
admin can verify your rating.
Great idea.
And then you.
We can disable where the
player can edit his rating.
Right.
And if they do, yeah.
So then it's locked completely.
So then they need to go to the pro.
So that's a good idea.
Do you foresee like a little
bit of politics there going on?
You know, so I, my buddy man, yeah.
You're an extra one point.
We, I let you know, I let
the directors deal with that.
I, I give, I'll give you an example
of what happened to me actually
this week on Monday, this lady comes
over to me and said, uh, Oh my God.
I was rated 3.5 at Kiwis scan.
Why I'm rated 3.0 here.
Well, basically because
that's the rating I gave you.
Oh.
But in Kiwis scan they gave me 3.5.
Well, they give you the wrong rating.
So you, now you Yeah, I, I think what's,
I think what could work is that, you know,
you got people who cert, who certified,
you know, they can certify people what
ratings are, but the thing is they
have to, they have to follow one model.
Right.
Yeah.
So if there's 28 shots, they
have to know those shots.
Mm-hmm.
And then there's a physical aspect
of, there's all these things
that as long as all of the people
who are certifying follow that.
Then there there'll be some, uh,
uh, some, some, uh, consistency.
Yeah.
You know, well, red Pedal is
trying to do something like that.
Correct?
I mean, I'm part of the certification.
Yep.
Exactly.
That's what they're doing.
I haven't got anyone there, but I think
that will be a, a great idea to have the,
you know, the 28 or 32 paddle shots for
you to qualify as a, because what you
certify somebody may be different than
let's just say, uh, you know, a Coach B.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So and so, you know, so they
need to follow something.
Right.
So they're on the same page and you
get a closer con consistency there.
Yeah.
So I think the, we need to separate
the player universe and two,
one is the casual player which
goes in there on the weekends.
Mm-hmm.
To kind of just have fun
exercise, either exercise, family.
Mm-hmm.
And then we have the people
you probably know more.
Right.
Which are the addicts.
Right.
I call 'em the addicts
cause they're all addicted.
Yeah, that's right.
And.
And those are the ones
we need to organize.
Right.
I, I think for us, there's
too much on our plate.
So that's why I've been very vocal
to, to all our partners, we're
not gonna build a rating system.
I would love for an expert.
Right, right, right.
To go in there, build a ra, and then
we're gonna adopt what the clubs demand.
Right.
So if there's one.
Rating system that people
love, then that's the one we're
gonna embrace in our platform.
So if, if that model is transparent to
everybody, you mean the paddle players?
Yeah.
Then they can see why they're at
that score and how they can improve.
Yeah.
To bring up their score.
Yeah.
And they're not gonna be
asking you like that person.
Yeah.
Why am I this?
I'm not that.
No, no.
Well, you don't have to ask.
You can.
This is a report.
This is why, and, and if you work on
these things, you can see transparent.
Yeah.
You'll, you'll go up in, in some level.
Well, I, I, I think Red Panel is following
the same steps as the UTR in antenna.
Yep.
So, but that, that system is based on.
Competition, you know, how many tournament
you play, how many matches you win.
And I think Playto is something similar.
Yeah.
With how many matches the algorithm
gives you a different rate.
But I, I think that shouldn't
be the whole thing of it.
Agree.
I think that should be only a
partial because red panel, remember
this is a team effort, so, uh,
depending on your partner Yeah.
As well.
Yeah.
Right.
And then, you know, you
could have a bad day too.
And then you can have a guy who is a
tennis player that never plays, he's
smashing everything, this and that.
Yeah.
But he doesn't really
know how to play paddle.
So how do you, you know, so there
has to be, I think a model there.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
And it has to have like
3, 4, 5 different things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your matches.
If you can hit all the pedal shots, uh,
how the physical aspect of it, uh, all
those things are very important, you know?
And I don't think you could just
base it on if you're winning a game.
Yeah.
Because I can strategically, Find
somebody that's a little bit better than
me and then beat a team and then bring
my score up and you can manipulate it.
And that's, that's what's been going on.
Which in 10 it's because it's
singles, it's more, yeah, yeah.
It's more effective when
they're singles, right?
Yeah.
What they do in pickleball is
they do, the algorithm takes point
differentials into account, right?
So that kind, what do you by point
differentials like if me and my
partner were playing against you
two and then we lose by 10 to
one per se, so then the score.
It's not weighted equally, but they
take that differential into account,
not just if it's a win loss per se,
on that case, but it's, uh, that's
something I won't even get into.
Cause I, I don't even, yeah, I don't,
it's so, it, it's so difficult that,
and you know, and you're probably smart
to kind of stay away from it until you
have somebody crate it, because then
they can spin their wheels for Yeah.
Years and be changing that and.
And I think that's what's been happen.
That's why nothing solid
has been coming, coming out.
Yeah.
It's difficult and I just don't think
the, the, when you win a game and,
and calculate that, I'm not sure
how accurate that what we believe is
that the club should own, it's not a
certification process, but the level up
process, if you wanna call it that way.
Not only to kind of build a
community, cuz I think that's
important from a club perspective.
Because you're not commoditizing
your club, but also from a
monetization strategy, right?
So you can build a, a player journey
where you can take 'em through these steps
and then your clinics, your programming,
your weekend tournaments, you are moving
your player community into those steps.
Oh, I already play in the.
Three oh league run by my club.
So that is a, a stamp of
approval that could work Right.
In some way.
And I think you can
upsell a lot, a lot more.
You can, but again, I think the, the,
the, the clubs have to be on the same
page cuz I, I, I go to New York and play
a pet house and that level's different.
I go to Chicago.
Yeah.
That level's different.
Yeah.
They go up Pennsylvania.
That level's different.
I come down here in Miami and
all the clubs very different.
So you can have the same person
be, you know, four oh and
another person at 5.5 or a two.
You know, so that's, that's where
it kind of, it gets difficult.
Maybe we can brainstorm something, but
the format I liked the most that was a
concept in tennis, was the latter format.
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember that.
Challenge two.
You move up too.
Someone below can challenge you.
You move down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And maybe we can have a registry, but if
you go back to the, the old times, you
know, clubs that used to be run, I mean,
you have the club championship and whoever
wins it is number one for that year.
And number two is the finalist.
Number three and four are
the semifinalists and so on.
So, but I, I, I think
it's, it's a great way.
So where do you see play
by point going from here?
So, We are focused, again, I go
back to the club owner, right?
So we've honed our craft in terms
of making sure that the operate,
that clubs are successful.
So if clubs are successful, they're
making money, they are operating
efficiently and effectively, we're
gonna see a bigger growth in the sport.
Our company, what do I
see as the next step?
Where, what are the demands from
our users, from our operators?
Is going into the social
aspects of the sport, right?
So before when, you know, when paddle
just came up, it was just booking, right?
And now you're starting to
see, oh, I want, you know,
how do I sign up for leagues?
How do I sign up for a tournament?
How do I, can I chat
with the, with the club?
So then the way we see it in a
roadmap is building these social
tools for the club to handle.
And then on the other end is
optimizing what we've built.
Going back to what I said
before, the marketing tools.
Right.
We need to become smarter because
the market will get more competitive.
Right.
And we need to make it easier
for the decision makers to
make actionable automated.
Yeah.
Right.
Course.
I gave a lesson ping call Andres.
Yeah.
And we can automate those journeys.
Yeah.
Oh, courts are wet.
Boom.
Send ping number, you know,
a text message to everyone.
Correct.
Um, um, so let me ask one thing.
The data and the numbers in there, you
guys have the option to, let's say,
People are looking for another player.
Yeah.
And you have the, you know,
the app it's looking for.
Yeah.
Is that application really used or not?
It's used a lot.
Really?
So we were, so the story behind it goes
back to the product that, what I think
is gonna work, that's why I let the u
the, the operators and the users decide
that we, it's called the game match.
There's a lot of room for
improvement and, and we've gotten
a lot of idea and we should, we
are gonna put more love into it.
Um, but that one's used.
Even if you look at today at a
couple clubs, about four to five
bookings per day are being filled
via the game match in that case.
So it's used more, um, than
we all think per saying.
That was a big discovery on our end.
Now, do you see play by point
moving into other markets, uh,
other sports besides rocket sports?
We're focused on rocket sports.
Sports, so we, you know, one thing.
Yeah.
That, that's been our focus and
we wanna become specialists.
We wanna become the best in that market.
I gotta say, you created
something pretty incredible, man.
Not congratulations.
It's, it's truly a, a son,
one final devil advocate.
Yep, of course, of course.
So, which I think will be great.
Right now, the way we set up
the groups are through WhatsApp.
Yeah.
You know, we have a beginner's group,
intermediate group, advanced group,
every, everyone through WhatsApp.
We have a 400, 500 place in each group.
Yeah, it would be great if we
can have that feature that's,
that's easy to do on easy.
I know that's probably on your list
cuz that we have that in our other,
in, in, in our other SaaS companies.
It is a big journalizing.
Those taxes.
Yeah.
Being, having groups, all those
things, it's not that that difficult.
So I know that's on your list, I'm sure.
You know that's, that's true list.
Everybody uses WhatsApp.
Yeah.
And it's like using another third
party, third party company where they
can keep it in house and they can,
you know, they can do analytics too.
Yeah.
They can, you know, separate people.
I mean, there's so much you can
do when you have it in house.
Well, what happened to me in, in my
case, now I have these because everybody
thinks they're better than they are.
Yeah, right?
You got advanced, advanced players
that they're really intermediate.
Yeah.
All intermediate and so on, so, so
now I start creating my own personal.
Which people that I know, advanced
players in community players and all that.
So that's another group.
Yeah.
Created by the, by the coach
or you know, by the manager
who knows exactly who they are.
So at least when you can set up a match
there, it's gonna be even number players.
Are you sure you're gonna want to do that?
You're gonna lot of people.
Well, no, I'm already doing,
yeah, I'm already doing it.
So better touch mine, bro.
Tell me, thank you so much, uh, and
Andreas, uh, and play by point for coming
to, uh, this great interview and remember.
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